Hey, guys. My guest today is Mina Boles. He's executive medical director at US Medical Affairs in gastroenterology for Takeda Pharmaceuticals. And we talk about his career journey and how he found success as an industry MD in medical affairs. So it's a great conversation. Mina is awesome. Don't forget to follow me on LinkedIn. Check us out on YouTube, and join us for MSL talk live, which is the first Tuesday of every month at 1:30 PM Eastern time. And that's on LinkedIn.
Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Mina. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me, brother. How you doing? Doing well, Tom. How are you? Thank you so much for for the opportunity. I'm I'm delighted to be here. I am excited. This is something that came together. And I know it took a little bit of planning, but we we finally made it. I'm excited to, to do this.
Let me say that as we're about to do this episode, I think we will have already crossed a huge threshold. So at the time that you guys are listening to this, we'll probably wind up, celebrating a milestone of 250,000 listeners in over 80 countries. So I wanna thank everybody. It's been coming for a while, and, and I I think we're pretty much here. So I'm sure by the time this airs, we'll hit that milestone. So I wanna thank you guys all for making that happen.
Congratulations, Tom. That's fantastic. Thank you. Very well done. Thank you. Appreciate it, man. Well, thanks for being here. Why don't you do an introduction? Tell everybody who you are, where you're from, all that good stuff. Yeah. Sure. So I I'm Ina Bullis. Again, thanks for the opportunity to be here. Very much looking forward to our discussion today. I currently work as executive medical director in US Medical Affairs at Takeda Pharmaceuticals.
So looking forward to our discussion today, Tom. Yeah, man. Well and you have a you have a great story to tell. And this is a guys, this is a combination of, like, a career a career transition story within medical affairs, but it's also a story about Mina's drive to to pay back, and pay forward because he has had people help him along the way, and and he's also the type of person that's very giving. So we're gonna talk about that as well.
So it's not just your normal career transition story that I think a lot of people really enjoy listening to. There's gonna be another element that's gonna really talk about his desire to wanna help others. So why don't we start with your background and transition to industry and give a little, kind of insight as to what your, like, career trajectory has been? Yeah. Certainly. So, interesting path. You know, I was on the traditional route, going to medical school, you know, seeking out training.
I I did a couple of research fellowships before my beginning my training in general surgery. And then midst of my training, I, decided that there's, I think, more of an opportunity to to take the skills that I've learned and the medical knowledge and really couple it with that passion that I have with the passion that I also have for for the business side. And and that led me to the pharmaceutical and device industry.
At first, I I didn't really know what I was getting into just to be quite quite honest, Tom, but I've had a number of folks kinda shepherd me along the way. And it it made sense because, you know, oftentimes, we have the opportunity to touch, you know, 10, 20, 30 patients a day or even more throughout the course of our clinical career. But if you take a step back and think of it, you have an opportunity to touch 1,000, if not millions of lives by the work that you do, in this industry.
And so that's that's kinda led to my my career in the pharmaceutical industry, which started roughly about 4, four and a half years ago. And and at that time, what was your motivation? Like, what kind of role were you looking for? What exactly were was your thought process at that time? Yeah. So, again, it was it was more of how do I take my skills that I've learned in medicine, and then the knowledge that I've maybe acquired in in terms of research as well.
And have that passion kinda rolled up and presented to, you know, the business side of things or the research side of things. Because the the pharmaceutical industry, not knowing too much about it at the time, I immediately thought, you know, it was it was more commercial and more sales. But there are, you know, there are people that bring the medicines to life. And so that's where I was interested.
I started to do my own research and started seeking out advice and, networking to be able to understand what other facets are there in the pharmaceutical industry that I can give back to patients through.
And that kinda came and then I came across the the medical affairs opportunity where I felt it was a coupling of of the skills, the medical knowledge, an opportunity to see how the pharma world interacts with the rest of the health care space and be kind of a puzzle piece in that health care ecosystem. So what was that first role? So when you transitioned to the industry, did you become an MSL? You said medical affairs. Was it an MSL position? Yes. So I I I came across a role.
Actually, it's it's a funny story. I was on LinkedIn. I didn't use LinkedIn too much at the time. Had a profile. I saw, I was friends with someone, by the name of Ravi Tai. And Ravi had posted a position for an MSL, at the company that he was working at at the time. Said send your CV. If if you're interested, sent it. Didn't get back to him until later on. He had already messaged back. It was like, yeah. Let's talk. So I was, you know, very interested to see what this role was about.
It was in GI, which is kinda where I spent, most of my career, GI and GI surgery. And so the the opportunities started to present itself, and Ravi was really, one of the first people to take a chance on me because oftentimes, we hear it very often, you don't have pharmaceutical experience, so we can't give you this job. And so it creates this catch 22. People go in circles. Well, how do I get it if it's not available to me?
And so I I, you know, I wouldn't be where I am today if he if he didn't take the the the risk on me. Well, so, Ravi, he's a fan of the show. He's a, we're a fan of his. I mean, let let let's be clear. Ravi's been on the podcast. He and I are friends. I've known him a long time. I'll tell you. You hooked up with a good dude, man. You know, you hooked up with and we talk about mentorship. We talk about networking and how important it is.
You meet somebody like Ravi Tai, he's gonna that purse that type of person, and especially the way he is, is gonna change the trajectory of your career position you, put you in the right place, help you out, open doors, introduce you to people. So as a matter of fact, Robbie's episode on this podcast was one of the the top single day downloads in MSL talk podcast history. So shout out to Ravi. And tell us so tell us what happened from there.
So you you get you make this connection, you get this break, And then you wind up getting the MSL position. Tell us how that went, but also tell us the challenges because, obviously, you took your career into a whole another direction. So we wanna I kinda wanna hear about that. Yeah. I know. So there was a lot of learning upfront, Tom. And I I think, you know, the supporting crew that when I first walked into, the organization, with Ravi was fantastic.
He had a he had a a wonderful team there that really were were open minded to the fact that there's some newbies coming. I was one of a few newbies that were were onboarding at the time. They kinda walked us through what to expect in the pharmaceutical world, but also what to expect from the field perspective and what the expectation is of you internally at the company, but also externally, and how to go about that scientific exchange. What does an insight mean?
There's different definitions to insights and and how you, achieve a meaningful insight, that helps both patient provider and the strategic, plan that you're focused on. And so walking in there that again, very steep learning curve, but it was an opportunity to touch multiple areas because we're also a small team, and very hungry. And that from the leaders around us was, I guess, a a a part that helped influence our success. The hunger within the team, allowed the leaders to say, you know what?
Let's give them the resources and tools they need. Let's ensure that they're successful. Let's walk them through the areas that, you know, they don't have experience in. And this is where true mentorship comes in. The true guidance of, alright, I know that you're new to this. You may have, you know, the MD, the DO, the PharmD, the PhD to your name. But the the credibility in medical affairs, specifically field medical, that's what we'll teach you here.
And so I I will tell you, it was a steep learning curve, but I I think we're all soaking it in, like a sponge. So you mentioned mentorship. That's we talk about that a lot on this show, but it's it's it's very often spoken about as, hey. Seek out mentors so that they can help you, with your career getting into the role. But one of the things I don't know if we talk enough about is how important it is to have mentors throughout your journey.
Yeah. We did actually did a podcast recently with data Pascalis on, the importance of having coaches, which is which is similar to having a mentor. But you mentioned you you mentioned that word, and it almost sounds like you mentioned it, like, it's been integral for you throughout your career. Is that accurate? A 100%.
I I will start out by saying that today where I stand, Nina Bullis, with Takeda, with any other company, I would not be here and I would not have these opportunities without the right mentors. And it started not just within the pharma, world, but prior to that. So as I was going through training and even before that, I seek mentorship. I think one of my if I go back, one of my first mentors said, get yourself more than one mentor. Right? And they don't all have to be from medicine.
We're often ingrained to to our comfort zone, and our comfort zone is maybe, the the specialty you're in, the career you're in, the sector you're in. It's good to have those mentors, but it's also to have it's nice to have the outside perspective from other mentors looking in. So I did just that. And over the years, I would reach out, you know, to folks that I would hear speaking or that I felt, you know, had a similar career path or, that had similar experiences to me.
And through those mentors, I would network, and they would suggest other folks to connect to. So, you know, 20 years into the career from the clinical side, research, and into the pharma, field, you have basically a a a a nice bullpen of different mentors that you can reach out to. I I know that you mentioned mentoring and coaching. I think there's distinct differences between both. But even within mentoring, Tom, I think sometimes folks come to a mentor and say, you know what?
I'm faced with this situation or this challenge or this decision. What do I do? And they expect the answer to take back and do just that. What I've discovered over the years is mentors are there to guide you through your own through their experiences and make your experiences unique. And however they can benefit you, they'll share that. Now you don't have to do exactly what they say because it may not make sense to you. They're there to offer you support and guidance.
If something is crystal clear, they'll obviously say it. But at the end of the day, it should be your decision. A 100%. And I'll I tell you, what I love about what you just said is and one of the most important things that we need to tune into is that, yes, it's important to have mentors along the way. But you said that you were constantly seeking out mentors. This is a proactive thing. It's not a reactive thing.
Your mentors aren't just gonna, they they may present themselves, but they're not just gonna call you up and say, hey. I wanna be your mentor. This is something that in your career, you have to work towards actively, and you have to navigate that. You have to seek out those relationships and develop and nurture those relationships over time, and then they'll grow exponentially.
Because like you said, as you're speaking to one person, they may introduce you to another to another, and that's how you develop a network. That's how networking actually works. It just kinda grows like wildfire. Exactly. Exactly right. Yep. So let's let's stay on this because this this leads us to really this next topic, which we talked about in the title is so you've had people that have helped you along the way. And you mentioned to me how important it is for you to now pay it forward.
So can you talk about that? Tell me what that means for you and how you seek to help others. Sure. No. It it's it's a passion to be able to share your experiences, to share your successes. Again, if the folks that mentored me, guided me, and and helped me throughout my career didn't do that, I wouldn't be standing here today. I wouldn't have these roles or responsibilities, and I wouldn't have this set of experience and skill set.
So to me, paying it forward means, you know, if someone reaches out to you and wants just to have this sort of conversation, you're able to give that back, give some solid advice from your experience. To me, if you're in a leadership position, having that opportunity to lead a group, not it doesn't mean that you micromanage a group, but you're looking out for their success. Obviously, the work is important, but you're looking for their success. So as you grow, you lift them with you.
And, eventually, they become so good that, you know, they take your job as you're moving into other roles. That, to me, is is an opportunity to pay it forward. Make sure that the people around you are happy, are motivated, are passionate, and can explore opportunities feeling safe. So they're not gonna harbor, you know, should I talk to Nina or should I talk to Tom about something? It should happen naturally. It should be a safe space where you come and say, hey.
I have something I'd like to run by you. Get your up get your thoughts, and see how we can work together. Because maybe we can facilitate something or brainstorm together to get you on that career path or trajectory that your heart desires at the end of the day. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And I think I talk about this a lot, but I think it's really important to make sure that you have the right approach with people.
And and you've you've obviously displayed that it's a lot of people have helped you, and now you're you're helping others. But when you're seeking out and networking with others, be careful not to make it all about you. Yeah. When you're approaching someone, it's always important to, you know, definitely have a call to action, but also let them know that you absolutely want to help them, that you wanna be an advocate for them, that you wanna be a resource for them in some way.
Even if maybe you're not at that capacity right now in your career, where you can make that happen. You wanna let that person know, hey, listen, I, you know, I'm here for you or I'm gonna I'm gonna, you know, be someone that, you know, you can count on to to pay this back in the future. However, it has to be worded. And that's kind of the one of the again, the theme of this conversation. But I think a lot of people get so caught up in their agenda, if that's the right word.
Yeah. Or in their own cause that they sometimes forget that you wanna also make it about the other person. A 100%. It's it's a two way street. Right? So today, I may not be able to help Tom where I currently sit today, but I will develop a trusting relationship with you that somewhere down the road, a year to 5, you may reach out. We may be having a discussion. I'd say, wait, Tom. I I know someone or I I know something or I I have to experience in this. Let me help you here.
And and it's it's in a humble way, not to say, you know, let me pay you back for what you did. That that'll happen naturally. But it's more of, you know, I'm here with humility and, the ability to to share something, and the time has come to do that. So that's that's the paying it forward, paying it back, and paying it to your colleagues. It's like that scene in The Godfather.
It's that famous scene in The Godfather with Luca Bracci where he goes to ask The Godfather for a favor, and he's like, and that day may come, like, where you need a favor from me kind of thing. And Luca Bracci was notorious for, like, that was the guy that the godfather relied on and he trusted. Meanwhile, he now sleeps with the fishes. That's a whole another story. But, anyway, I digress. So let's let's talk about your what you see happening, in medical affairs. Obviously, pharma is evolving.
Medical affairs is evolving. What do you see as maybe some new opportunities that may be emerging for folks that are in medical affairs? And, obviously, as an industry MD, what what message might you have also for folks that have your type of background? Yeah. No. Certainly. So I think let let's start to to your first question within medical affairs. I think even within the last 4 or 5 years since I've joined this industry, it continues to evolve.
And I'll I'll underscore that, word that you said. It's on a path of evolution that I think no one has ever seen before. The the, understanding and the ability to garner trust internally and externally continues to rise on the daily. What I mean by that is within an organization, the medical affairs group is a trusted partner. They're advocates for science. They're advocates for advancing science, and they're unbiased, and they should be.
So those walls of compliance, you know, are are very easy in the sense of we're doing the right thing based on the science we have. And our focus at the end of the day is our HCPs and our patients. Now the evolution from there goes to, well, how do I, make my myself, I guess, relevant in this space? How do I create an opportunity, not just for me, but for my colleagues? And I think as multiple opportunities exist in how we engage in the field, there's that constant evolution of exchange.
How I've exchanged pre COVID in scientific dialogue is completely different or, you know, has some overlap, but has definitely shifted post COVID. So we've we've had to get nimble. We've had to get innovative, and we're continuously gaining momentum. If you think of it, the medical affairs organization is typically first boots on the ground, from an organization. They're the first to be able to gauge and understand insights in the field.
They're the first to be out there to have those scientific exchanges and talk data, talk science. And I think that brings a tremendous amount of credibility to you in your role, but also to your organization. So that will continue to grow. I think the other aspect, which is, I think, growing like wildfire right now, is the innovation. The innovation that exists within MedAffairs, and within the org the organizations in the health care space around data, the digital capabilities and technology.
Technology is booming right now. We're, you know, we're hearing conferences and talks, and and people share data through, artificial intelligence. There's a there's a huge growing in that field, natural language processing, machine learning. But what do you do with that? How do you make that fit strategically to what you're trying to accomplish?
When you think about coupling your technology or your capabilities to enhance things like diversity, equity, inclusion, and ensure health health equity, that's something that you can leverage when you you think about clinical studies and clinical development programs. How can I use technology to help ensure that I have, as an organization, as a field, a diverse population, a diverse, centers that will, have access to to patients?
Because oftentimes, we're we're stuck in you know, we have a trial out there. We have a study out there. But is it generalizable to the entire population? That's what we're we're trying to accomplish at the end of the day. Your medicines should be researched in in all people, not just a specific group or specific subset, when applicable. For sure. Yeah. Yeah. There's so much going on. It's almost hard to keep up with all the stuff that you just mentioned.
Yeah. We are we are definitely moving at, at an interesting and a quick pace. But it's exciting. And I think it's because of all that there's more and more opportunity. And and the we we are in a field that's growing, which is exciting. So let's talk about I wanna get your perspective on as an industry MD, do you feel like there are more opportunities for folks with your background as an MD? Are there less opportunities? Is it tougher? I know some people might say, oh, well, it's an advantage.
You're an MD. So you have an advantage because of of your your background. Others might say, no. We're more limited. So where do you sit on that? Yeah. So I I I go through a couple of things. 1 is the catch 22 that we spoke about earlier. Just because you're an MD doesn't guarantee you a way in. I think, obviously, the networking, the mentorship, all that, that plays a significant role.
But I'll tell you, when I first started exploring these opportunities, I would apply, I would get the, you know, the automatic response. Thanks very much. You don't meet the qualifications. But on your job description, I have the, you know, the the credentials. It's not just that. And so, I I think the awareness for MDs in the industry, has an opportunity to grow.
I have colleagues that are PharmDs and PhDs, and there's programs within their institutions where they've trained, where they've gone to school that allows them to recognize that there is a an opportunity for them to apply their skills in the in the pharma or even the device industry. I don't feel like we have that going through medical school or DO school.
And coming to the table, it's fantastic to see that, you know, your your colleagues that have Pharm d backgrounds, PhDs, advanced practice providers have this kind of road into the industry that is well known within their respective, worlds. And for the MDs and DOs, it it's not as well known. So I think there's an opportunity to to raise some awareness there. Sure. Yeah. No. That's good stuff. The sure. I I I was just gonna add to that, Tom.
You know, once once you come into the industry, sometimes there's a a misconception just because you're an MD that you know everything there is to know, about the disease state or therapeutic area that you're working in. It's not always the case, and it's okay to say, you know, not my area of expertise. I will go take a look at it. I'll come back to you.
I think for many of us in the health care space, we are blessed to be able to pick up and read the science quicker, oftentimes than the general population. And so it's okay to to say I don't know, but I will find out. And I that that demonstrates a lot of leadership to be able to do that. Yeah. For sure. For sure. That's good advice too. It's just good advice.
So with people that are looking to build a career in medical affairs, whether you're a PharmD, MD, PhD, or or or a PA or anyone, really anyone, whether even even you have a, you know, a a doctorate level degree or not, what advice do you have for those folks that are looking to develop their careers in medical affairs? Certainly. So, I I would I would I take this advice because I give this advice to myself and to to others I care about. So first is do your homework. Ask questions.
Don't be afraid to raise your hand. Oftentimes, we're shy. We're in the back of the room. We don't wanna speak up. Some aren't, and we'll speak up, and I applaud them. But oftentimes, the person sitting next to you probably wants to know the same answer to that question because they're thinking about it as well. So do your homework. Research. Reach out. Build your network through mentorship, through what what we discussed earlier.
You know what is interesting, Tom, is is if I reach out to you or I reach out to to others, say, Tom, you know, I've been following you. I I see what you're doing. Simply, I'd love some mentorship. 9 out of the 10 times, the answer will be thank you. Yes. I'm humbled. Let's do it. And you make it to whatever you want it to be. But to your point, it's a two way street, and that's how you build that network and mentorship. Also, take a risk on yourself.
Oftentimes, we don't want to get outside of our comfort zone. I had a a mentor on the business side, years ago. She had shared with me. She said, you know, Mina, it's important for us to get comfortable feeling uncomfortable, and that will lead us to our success and to to our career growth and progression. So take a risk on yourself. Because if you're not willing to, who is going to? Right? There's very few that will. So be willing to trust yourself and and, believe in yourself.
Don't worry about title. Don't worry about pay. Oftentimes, we we think of those, you know, I need to live. That's true. You you will make you will earn a living, but you don't wanna get up in the morning, put your boots on, go to work, and be thinking about pay or title. As you succeed, those will come naturally. A 100% guaranteed. Be the hardest person the hardest working person in the room. That's another piece of advice.
When we walk in, sometimes there's a sense of intimidation or the fear of the unknown or the, you know, fake it till you make it. Be that hardest person working in the room. You don't have to be the smartest person. I I hear this from, actually, a couple of my close mentors. Walk in. Be humble. Say that you will, you know, see this out until the end even if you don't know what, you know, the intricacies of the project, but be willing to learn, and be that hardest worker.
That will demonstrate a lot of, agility. It'll demonstrate confidence, your passion, and you'll be flagged as someone who is willing to put in the effort. And, you know, last but certainly not least, if you have weaknesses, we all do, identify them and work on them. That'll set you apart. So, you know, it it's it's a culmination of of humility, being humble, and just being ready to roll up your sleeves and rock and roll. Amazing. Amazing advice.
I I mean, we have to leave it there because that was such amazing advice. Like, I know that people are gonna eat. If you're driving right now, you're pulling over and you're rewinding that. Or you're watching the video and you're rewinding it because what you just said, as a matter of fact, I wanna go back and listen to it again because I think think that that those are the answers to the test, folks. You heard it there from Mina. Those are the answers to the test. I appreciate you, brother.
That was really good stuff. And and we should definitely do this again. I appreciate your story. I appreciate all your advice. I know everybody else does. So thank you for being here. Thank you, Tom. I appreciate it. And thank you, everyone. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future, and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.