Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Lauren Gardner. She is a senior medical ambassador, which is like an MSL for Tarsus Pharmaceuticals, and she talks about the four t's or challenges to be prepared for and overcome as a new MSL. Great conversation. Lauren's awesome. I think you guys are really gonna like this. Don't forget to follow me on on LinkedIn and reach out and connect if you haven't already.
But also check us out on YouTube and MSL talk live, which is the 1st Tuesday of every month at 1:30 PM EST. It's a live discussion. So it's like the podcast, but it's a live discussion. And it's on LinkedIn live, and it's awesome. We actually did one yesterday. Amazing. So guys check these out if you can. Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey there, Lauren. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me.
Thanks, Tom. Happy to be here. I'm excited. I am so excited. And I think before we get started, we do I always like to explain how these things come about. So you were referred to me by my buddy, Arthur Chan. Yes. Correct? Yes. Absolutely. Arthur, the great connector. If you guys haven't already, Arthur was on the podcast recently. It was an amazing episode where we recapped the highlights of 2022. Check that out. It was awesome. But, Arthur, thank you for making this introduction.
So before we get started, why don't you do, a quick background intro of your own so that everybody knows who you are, where you're from, and all that good stuff? Absolutely, Tom. Thank you. So my name is Lauren Gardner. I am born and raised in the Midwest. I always knew I wanted to go into medicine, and so always very fascinated with the eye.
I I did my undergraduate degree in Southern Illinois University in Carbondale, majored in biology, and then went to Indiana University for optometry school. It's where I met my wonderful husband, who is also an optometrist, and we moved to the Indianapolis area about five and a half years ago. And I accepted a job in primary care optometry focused in ocular disease. And over the past year, I'd say I knew I just wanted to do something different, which is when I kinda stumbled upon the MSL role.
And as of 4 months ago, I just got my first job in the industry as a senior medical ambassador at Tarsus Pharmaceuticals, which is kind of our take on a senior medical science liaison. Got you. So we're gonna talk about that. You actually so the the the topic that we came up with, you you have this this thing, and we're gonna talk about it, but it's like new MSLs. Right. Or new MSL, the four T's to prepare for an overcome.
So like a lot of people like to hear these career transition stories and hear about how people broke into the role and then what happens once you get there. So that's gonna be another this is gonna be another episode that's gonna kinda follow that same format. So let's talk about you and how did you transition and get into industry? Yes. Good question, Tom. So I started on LinkedIn. When I knew about the MSL role, I got on LinkedIn. Updated my profile.
I put my resume out there, and then I just started networking. I know on this podcast, a lot of people say network, but that's truly how I got the job. I started messaging people, specifically optometrists who were MSLs because it was specific to what I was looking for. And a couple people reached back out. Some people don't. That's okay. And an MSL at another company, actually, she had had called me. We had a great conversation for about an hour.
And a couple days later, she sent me this posting from Tarsus and said, hey. There's this job opening. It's a senior position. I don't necessarily know if you're qualified, but go for it. So I did, and and here we are. Wow. You know, it sounds so easy. Like, we talk about it on this podcast. I've written articles about it, videos. Mhmm. It sounds so easy, but it's so important to do the basics. Put yourself out there.
And and just make it an everyday thing to just network and reach out to people. And then good things happen. So again, might not be that, you know, timing is different for everyone, so there's no rhyme or reason as to how long it might take, but the action should be the same. Alright. So then you you do all this stuff. You land your first role as an MSL. So how's it going? How do you like it so far? So I love it. Absolutely, Tom. I love it. Is it what I expected?
Yes and no. You know, there's there's so many different parts to it. And I think, time management, that's gonna be our first t of, you know, what to prepare for and overcome. But the time management part of this rule, I knew it was gonna be a big adjustment. But going from an 8 to 5 job where I came home, I never brought work home with me. I worked out in the morning, ate dinner at night. That was my day. I was very routined. This is different. You know, you have to be very self motivated.
I love your podcast on intentions. I've been really doing that over the past 4 months, like waking up and saying, this is what I'm gonna conquer today, and I have a plan. And so, that's kind of my transition and and some something I I didn't necessarily expect to be so hard when I transitioned. Yeah. Well and I think that that's that's one of the things that you have to I guess, if people listening to this podcast can take good notes and realize you'll be better.
Because a lot of people say that to me. Like, I didn't expect it for me to have to be so entrepreneurial. This you know, being a successful MSL is like running your own business. It's like running your own franchise within an organization. Do you agree with that? I absolutely. Absolutely. I do. So you mentioned time management. You so you had said to me that there are 4 t's Yes. Let's call them challenges Yes. That you need to be prepared for and overcome.
The first one you said is time management. Mhmm. So what are some of the other challenges? Yeah. Other challenges, Tom, are the territory planning and the travel are gonna be kind of our next 2. So territory planning, from kind of a surface level. I think you and I talked last week, and you said something like, oh, I'm I'm, geographically challenged. Well, that's like me to a t. So territory planning has so many different aspects, so many different challenges. But knowing, like, hey.
I'm driving an hour, 3 hours north. Where am I gonna pass through where I can hit other KOLs to make the best of my time, right, to make it most convenient, make the most sense? So that part of it has been challenging, and and I kinda have, like, an Excel spreadsheet of who I hit when I go where. Right? And travel. So the conferences that we go to are so fun in my opinion. There's so much energy. You're with your teammates. We have such a close knit group.
But when you're traveling alone in your territory, it can be lonely. It it's different. You know? I mean, you've gotta make a routine. You've gotta kinda find yourself in the travel, I think. So if you have a hobby, if you'd like to read, bring a book. You're gonna have downtime. If you'd like to work out, make sure it's got a good gym attached to the hotel you're staying in. Right? So I I think, you know, making making a priority to still have a routine within travel is important.
Yeah. And I'll tell you, it's it it can be a real eye opener if you're not ready for it, and you can get sucked into, like, the vortex of uncertainty and and what to do if you're not organized. We have had a bunch of episodes on that, on, you know, how to, you know, territory management and and how to be effective. So I'm not gonna go through all that, but there's there's a lot of information that you can find within this podcast about that because it is really it's not easy to conquer.
So I'm glad that you're you're kind of figuring it out. But let me ask you before we get to I think we're on the 4th t. But before we get there, what's made it easier for you now that you're you're in the role and you're doing that? Mhmm. Is it, you know, relying on, your teammates and some of the guidance that you're getting from folks internally? Are you leaning on others? Do Do you have mentors? Like, how are you navigating these initial days? Oh my gosh. Absolutely. I I definitely am.
You know, the first couple weeks, getting into the role, Tom, one of my my direct, teammates, colleagues, Jen, she reached out to me and said, Lauren, this is gonna be a huge transition. You're the only one coming into industry that's never had a position within the industry. So, you know, there's never a stupid question. I gotta say, I think she's regretting that 4 months in because I think I I still call her like 4 or 5 times a week. And I'm like, Jen, how do I do this? What do I do?
So, oh my gosh. I have definitely leaned on all of my team, and they've all been so awesome and and mentored me in so many ways. Well, first of all, shout out to Jen. You're freaking rock star. I love the fact that you're helping out here. That's amazing. And I just think that that's it's good advice for people that are new or anybody. If you're in a situation, you're a professional, raise your hand and ask for help.
There are there's always somebody out there that can lend a hand that can help out. I think a lot of times and when you have people that are drivers and overachievers and people that, like, they wanna figure it out on their own. Well, you don't have to. Go to somebody like Jen that's gonna step up. And for everybody else out there, be a Jen. We need more gens in this one. Yes. We do. Yes. Absolutely. Alright. So good stuff. Now we're on the 4th t, right, I think? Yes. We are. We are.
Alright. So that's more I would say that was kind of going into, like, the training portion of it. And and so when we did our training, I think my training was kind of unique in that it was four and a half weeks before 2 of our biggest conferences in the eye care industry. And so, you know, I went on a 2 week honeymoon during that 4 week training process. And so, of course, I let them know prior to accepting the job, like, hey, we've postponed this. It was during COVID times.
Like, we're going on this honeymoon. So I those 2 weeks were hard. I, like, had every minute I think every second of the day planned out. Like, how am I going to get through all of this? I have to know the data. I have to know the culture of the company. I have to learn the role. And then I I have to learn technology. So technology is gonna be our 4th t. That was really not expected. In my role as an optometrist, I had to know my EHR. I knew it like the back of my hand.
But coming into the MSL role, the CRMs, Excel, I mean, basic Microsoft Teams and Outlook, I mean, it's just there's so many so many, you know, technology aspects to it that I wasn't expecting that I really had to learn quickly. So learning curve on technology. So you get into training, and you're like, oh my god. Oh, yes. Yeah. Alright. Well, so let's go back. What are the four t's again? I just wanna make sure I got We got time management. Time management. We got travel. Travel.
We've got territory planning. Territory planning. And then we've got technology. And then technology. Got you. Alright. Well, listen. I think that's important for everybody to keep in mind. If you're if you're new as an MSL or if you're becoming an MSL, keep those things in mind. Now let's transition. K. And let's have a conversation that anybody that's in medical affairs maybe can, you know, can benefit from, and and maybe have their opinion. But so you you go through the initial training.
You're out there. How did you how was the transition to the KOL engagement piece of it? And what advice do you have for people that are out there trying to get access and develop relationships and that sort of thing? Definitely. That's a good question, Tom. So, you know, when when Arthur built this team, he's such an intentional person. He really built his team very intentionally, and he hired all optometrists for the field medical team.
And so we all for me, specifically, of course, I didn't have contacts within industry or or KOLs, but I had colleagues and friends from school and mentors, preceptors, even professors at my optometry school that I had kept in touch with or that I reconnected with. So that part of it was so much easier for me than I thought it would be. Really, the easiest part of my job so far was getting those KOL interactions.
Now what to do once you get those KOL, you know, interactions, that that's different and that's challenging. Well, let's talk about that. What what are challenging in what ways? Like, what are some of the challenges? So, I mean, this is just part of the job, of course, but storytelling, it has been I I like to think that I'm a fairly engaging person. But taking data, which can be, you know, dry sometimes, and making it into a story, making it engaging, it's hard. I'm still figuring that out.
And we did a soft skills program last quarter, I think it was, and it was helpful. But, you know, going out and making people want to meet with you again, our company right now is doing all disease state education. So you've got to make it fun. Like, you've got to make people want to listen to you and want to meet with you again. And so, I'm still working on that, but that that's been a challenge with the KOL engagement part. Well, do you have any tricks, any tips?
I'm putting you on the spot here. No. That's okay. I I mean, I would say I practice, and I and I really do a lot of research on who I'm meeting with. Right? So if you know, I I try to be very resourceful. If someone knows the KOL I'm meeting with, I've gotta figure out what, you know, what color I don't know if you guys do, like, the personality color personalities. But, like, are they data driven? Then I I need to go there. I'm not gonna give a whole bunch of fluff.
I'm gonna talk about the data. So researching the KOL beforehand is so important so that you know how to engage with them. I think that's that's a really important part of it and what I've done. Awesome. So what about, have you found any, like, resources or tools, anything that you've come across that's been really helpful to you so far in the role?
Yes. So I would be remiss, Tom, if I didn't say MSL Talk Podcast, but, truly, every time I listen to one of your episodes, it's so relevant to a portion of the job, and and it really has helped so much. So, you know, when I'm driving, it's like, alright. I'm putting on the podcast. I'll learn something new. But other other tools actually are Tarsus kind of had, like, a couple of learning platforms, I think, that we partnered with. And LinkedIn Learning was one of them.
And I think you can subscribe, like, 1st month's free, and then, you know, you can subscribe to to months on. But they have a a LinkedIn learning platform where they have like, every couple weeks, they'll do, like, an Excel training or, you know, how to get in into the 1st 90 days of a new role, what to do. And I've actually used that resource quite a bit. Like, I I set a goal for each month, how to grow professionally this month. It's Excel, and I try to kinda master it.
And and that's really helped me. Awesome. Well, thank you for the compliment. I appreciate that. I did I guys, I did not tee that up. I promise. I did not. You did not tell me to say that. I did not tell her to say that. That was just a question. But, so what other tips or advice would you say, that you have for someone who's new and maybe in the first 6 months to a year in their role as an MSO?
You know, if I could go back 4 months ago and tell myself something, it would be ask for help and be vulnerable. I think it's so important, because your managers want you to ask for help, especially if you're just new into the role in general. I think it's so important. And, you know, like I said, I I reached out to Arthur and Jen so much.
But I think really being vulnerable and wanting to learn is is something your managers are looking for and something that I mean, you'll need it in the 1st few months. So definitely be vulnerable. Be vulnerable. And so and I didn't I'm gonna use the word mentor. So would you say is your advice that they should people should be seeking out mentors early on?
I would say and and to be honest, I I feel very lucky in my team because I think everyone has been such a mentor, whether it be my direct you know, there's 5 of us on our MSL team, whether it be those 4 or Arthur or, you know, our medical director. There's there's so many people who have just, you know, the open door policy, come to me with what you need.
But if you don't have that, I do think seeking out a mentor is a good idea because I I think it just help you know, helps you to to find someone that can relate to to the role and and help you. Yeah. Well, you're you know, if you you're gonna we all need it. Like, you're gonna need it. Yeah. You need it in the beginning, and we all need it. Listen. Some of the most accomplished athletes, successful entertainers, whatever it is, everybody has coaches. Right. Tiger Woods had a coach. Right?
Michael Phelps had coaches. Michael Jordan had coaches. Yeah. It all goes along with being the best at what it is that you do is to rely on others that can give you advice, that can give you help, that can see things that you might not be able to see. Definitely. I think that's really important. But as you look into let's say you had a crystal ball and you look into the future of your role as an MSL. What scares you? Like, what are you afraid of?
What are you nervous about as you move forward into this year? Into this year, you know, I I think something I found, Tom, is is getting that next meeting, is is something that I I feel maybe a little nervous, have a little anxiety about coming into this new quarter. It's like, okay. So I've I've met with these people, and so now I need another meeting.
And, you know, Arthur said at the beginning, like, guys, make that next visit at your first visit or make the next visit at that, you know, that engagement that you're having because, you know, pick a time of the month. Hey. I'd love to talk to you in April. And so I did that, you know, for the most part, but there's some people I I didn't do that with. And I'm like, oh my gosh. I I'm nervous. I've gotta get that next meeting. So I think that's just something within myself that I'm like, okay.
I've gotta make sure that every time I see someone, I make that follow-up engagement at the time of of our meeting. So what do you and I that's awesome. And I think that's that's great advice. That's a great tip. Arthur, you're the man. Shout out to Arthur for that awesome tip. Make sure you try to schedule your next meeting while you're on your current meeting. So we talked about what you're you know, might be a little bit apprehensive about moving into.
What are you most excited about as you look into this year? I'm just excited about the growth that industry has to offer. And I think a lot of people who are in clinical care can relate to this. It's you've kinda feel like you've hit a ceiling and you're like, what what's next? You know? Like, if you open up your own practice, you know, there's growth within that. But that's kind of what I was feeling. And in this role, it's you know, everyone's like, hey. Think about what's next.
What are you gonna do? You know, growth opportunities. Do you wanna be a a people manager? Do you wanna be an individual contributor? So I'm just excited about not only my growth and learning, you know, more about the role in this next year, but just about the growth opportunities in the future. I'm so excited for that. Well, you're in the right place. It's never been a better time to be an MSL. I can tell you that. I I agree. Yeah. Awesome. I could see you're so passionate about this.
Like, you're so excited about this. I am. That's awesome. I love to see that. Well, go let's go back. Right? And if you had to give advice to someone that's looking to break into their 1st MSL role, now that you have gotten there and you know what you know, what would that be? So I I think this kinda takes us back even to the beginning, talking about, networking. I would say network and follow-up. If I didn't do those two things, I wouldn't have gotten the job.
So you get it all the time more than me, but you have people messaging you on LinkedIn, calling, texting old colleagues. How do I get into this role? Right? So after I have a conversation with someone, it goes such a long way when someone follows up with me. I can tell they're genuine. They want to be in this role. So, you know, be comfortable with, being uncomfortable is the saying, I think. Right? Like, you really do have to put yourself out there, network, and follow-up.
That's such good advice. And I just I think that the follow-up piece is important because if you don't follow-up, there's a good chance that it may not go any further than where it is. Right. But before you get to the follow-up piece, one tip that I wanna offer when it comes to networking Mhmm. You really wanna be careful in your messaging. One of the things that I noticed with people reaching out to me on LinkedIn is that the message is about them. It's not about me.
Right. It's, hi, Tom, fan of your podcast, or, I I so and so referred me to you. How can you help me? I need help. I need you to help me. And I understand I understand that that's why most people are reaching out to me. I I do get it, and I do try to help everybody. Yes. But if you tell her your I do think it's good to say I'm a fan of the podcast or compliment or, you know, I love your show or it's helped me so much.
I think that's that's a great way to start, but try to come up with maybe come up with a mutual connection. Agree. Refer to something that you learned in the podcast that, hey. I particularly like this. That creates some kind of alliance because I'm like, wow. They listened. They paid attention. Okay. Great. I agree. I know you're an expert in the space.
Would love to just see if I could, you know, perhaps ask a quick you know, just if you could just take a look at my resume or, you know, like, some kind of call to action. Something that it's like, we I know that you're reaching out for a purpose. Mhmm. But state it in a delicate way where it's not like, hey, I need a whole bunch of your time. Yes. And I need you to get me a job, and I need you to do this. It's like, you kinda wanna hide it in there a You know what I'm saying? I agree.
I think that's great advice, Tom, and I think that rolls over into being an MSL. Right? I mean, KOL engagement when you're reaching out, like, hi. I have all the stuff to tell you. Meet with me. Right? Like, you've gotta make you have to find common ground, and you want them to want to meet with you. So exactly what you said. I think that's awesome advice. And, guys, this isn't has really nothing to do with me. Like, I'm I'm just saying I'm I'm gonna listen. To me, it's just time.
I'm gonna I've if I could help every single one of you guys and give you guys an hour every single day, believe me, I would. It's just it's impossible for me to do it. What I'm saying is when you're reaching out to others, you wanna make it about them. You wanna let them know that you're appreciative. Thank them in advance. Let them know that this is, you know, you're humbling yourself to go to them, that if you become a part of their network, you're definitely going to return the favor.
You're gonna be an asset to them. Perhaps we can whatever. Like, you wanna make it a mutually kind of beneficial sort of thing, and it all happens in the approach. I think so too. I think that's great advice, Tom. I don't think I explained that very good, but you know. No. I think you did. I think that was good. No. I I I I know what you're saying, and it and it's very true. Yeah. Alright. So last piece of advice. We're almost at the the bottom of the aisle here. So last piece of advice.
What do you what do you really wanna get across to either new MSLs, aspiring MSLs, or or somebody that is performing in the role right now, that you think would benefit them? So, Tom, you know, I was trying to think of something to close this out. Like, what can I say that's, like, the the answer to the MSL role or something so inspirational? So I'm gonna kinda keep it light hearted, but have fun in this role. This is such a cool role. It is so unique. You are the CEO of your territory.
It is flexible. It is hard work. Don't get me wrong. It is challenging. You've got to put a lot of effort into it, but have fun with this role. It is really truly an a very unique, cool role. Listen. That's a great way to close this out. That's a great way to close this out. And I think that, you know, that's great advice, Lauren, for anyone. Like, you really have to try to find, some joy in everything that you're doing, and that's part of being intentional.
You mentioned the episode on intention, which was episode 86. It's one of my favorite episodes. It's one of the most downloaded episodes. It you need to be intentional every day about your own joy, about your own journey, about what you can influence, whether you're an MSL or whether you're, you know, an astronaut. Like, if you wake up every day and all you look at is the negatives and if you dread what you do, you need to change your mindset. Yep. Agreed. Absolutely.
And, you know, you're traveling. You're meeting new people every day. If you thrive in that environment, this is definitely such a cool role and set the role for you. You know? I mean, it really is so neat. So I'm amazing. I will say that. Thank you. You're amazing. I know you're for 5 minutes, and I can already tell you're gonna be a superstar. I'm really grateful that you spent some time and came on.
Thank you again, Arthur. And I wanna wish you the best of luck because I think you're gonna do really, really amazing things, and thank you for doing this. Thank you, Tom. This was so fun. I appreciate it. We'll talk soon. Awesome. Alright, guys. Thank you for listening. We'll see you next time. Bye. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment.
Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.