Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today, return guest is Maria Erso. She's director of medical affairs for Exact Sciences. And we talk about MSL field sanity, top ten tips for MSL field survival. So great conversation. Don't forget to follow us on YouTube and Instagram. I think you guys will like this. Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Maria. Thanks for joining me again. Welcome. Hi, Tom. Thanks so much.
I was I was happy to get the reinvite, especially when it was over a conversation around peeps. I love it. I know. We started with the with the Easter and the holiday, Passover, candy conversation, whatever, on, on LinkedIn, which by the way, that that, like, got such a it was just kind of a fun little thing I did. It got such a tremendous response. I was going to say why is this on here? I'm like No. I was like, he's genius. Like, what having fun.
Got more responses from that question and more people interacting with each other. And I was looking to see if there were people I knew and what they said and what their favorite candy was. So, yeah, that I was like, he's genius. What a great way to get everyone involved in talking about something. Sometimes you just got to have a little fun. That's all it's Yes. Listen. I could not wait to have you come back on. I've been thinking about doing this for a while.
We just needed kind of the right topic, but we do so can we we have to tell everybody about our conversation about the mullet. We gotta talk about the mullet. That's why I've been in the prep notes, but okay. It wasn't in the prep notes, but so I for everybody listening, I said to Maria, I'm like, listen. We use video now because it's gonna go on YouTube. And she's like, great. I'm gonna support my best, like, work from home mullet. And I was like, genius.
I'm a big fan of the mullet, and I sent you a picture from 1990 where I was sporting full on mullet. It was perfection. I have never seen a more perfect mullet. Well, I am going to because I can't resist, I'm gonna put it up on the screen right now. So I'm sharing my screen. So if anybody wants to see Tom Carball in 1990, circa 1990 with full mullet, you have to tune in to YouTube to check it out. So it's up there. Me and my in all my glory. So It's you know, you use, like, conditioner.
I know I feel like you use conditioner. This wasn't just a shampoo haircut. Oh, and I had the whole thing. I had the whole thing. So we digress. I'm gonna pull that off the screen because it's starting to get me freaked out. But just a fun way to get started. You had come up with a tremendous idea for this podcast, and it was MSL field survival, MSL sanity, and the top 10, you know, rules for for, you know, ideas for field survival.
And this goes kinda we're gonna talk about it goes beyond what might be the traditional conversation. So I'm gonna let you take and this is, like, post no. Pre, during, post COVID. Like, where do we go now? Like, how did you come up with this idea? So, this actually goes way back many years, but I kinda call this the care and feeding of the road warrior, something we don't think about a lot.
But the true basis of this went back many years when I was working on my PhD, and I was doing a lot with skeletal muscle biochemistry. And so I was involved in the research, the peer review publications on skeletal muscle atrophy and different drugs to help with different conditions, everything from muscular dystrophy, gene manipulation.
And along that, I come across all this now this was 20 years ago, so it's in the infancy, I think, of a lot of the whole diet, nutrition, sensational fads that we had, you know, beyond tab and snackless cookies. And I would just be appalled at the misinformation in the literature.
And so as a scientist, I just started, you know, writing, you know, writing in response to misinformation to just kind of correct it, being an educator whenever I could find that I could to make sure that there was scientific evidence behind things that were being said. And so something that I've started to do on the side for about it's actually been about 7 years now, is working either with corporate programs, and I worked through a company called o two x with corporate programs.
I've actually spoken with my at my own companies, you know, Wells Fargo, different organizations, all the way down to police, firefighter Mhmm.
And military populations to understand when we are in these stressful environments, we're working all the time, when we're moving, when we're not sleeping right, our food choices are limited, our extra choice exercise choices are limited, how can we still be the best person that we can be from a physical and health standpoint so that we can perform optimally?
And it's not just a physical sense, it's just that cognitive ability, being sharp, getting good sleep, getting good rest, and really making sure our careers don't end sooner than they need to. And, clearly, this is a real, real problem for MSLs that are road warriors on the road. And even now with COVID, you know, having to settle into this routine at home where it's all it's very different.
But, eventually, people are gonna have to figure out how do they even combine transition from being virtual to now being on the road, and nobody likes change. So because of all this, it becomes stressful, and you do wind up falling into bad habits. Like you said, making poor food choices, maybe not sleeping, whatever it might be. So and before we get into it, like, for for those of you that don't know Maria Ursa, she's a physical specimen. Like, tremendous shape.
She's, like, not an ounce of fat, athletic, you name it. So if there's anybody you can trust with this information, it's Maria. Just saying. Yeah. And it's not coming from a place of, like, obsession or, like, over or extreme levels of dedication. It really is just a a passion. Like, I always say, I'm training for life. You know, we're like, what are you training for now? I'm like, I'm just training for life. Well, you live it. You live this stuff. You so let's get into it.
So you had 10 you had 10 tips. So where do we start? So I always like to start with the gloom and doom. And and something, again, that's the truly the biggest passion around all this, and it comes down to retirement. Okay. We all want to retire. And what do we wanna do when we retire? We wanna travel. We wanna get after it. We wanna lead our best lives.
Mhmm. And we know across the board that while the average lifespan is about 78 point I think it's down to 5 years after COVID, it was about 78.6. Health span is only 66 years. Health that that's leading a healthy life without having doctor's appointments, some sort of, comorbidity without disease. So, basically, to me, if we don't do it right, we're gonna work so hard. We're gonna put all of our dedication into our careers.
And then when it's time to retire and enjoy life, our health span's gonna be kaput if we don't take care of it. So Sure. Yeah. That's a big, passion behind it. Okay. So yeah. Where do we start?
I I figure, we start with kind of on the road right now is I think the biggest thing is, getting out on the road and something you and I spoke about is, you know, I see MSLs come in and, you know, they're just fresh and they're excited and so motivated, and they start getting out on the road and I hear wonderful things like, you know, I can order anything I want at the restaurant, you know, this is great. I'm going to these restaurants and I can eat this and I can eat that.
And 3 or 4 months later, I start to hear, oh my goodness, I had to get new suits. Mhmm. You know? Or, oh my goodness, I just I feel so lethargic. This isn't the same. And I I think the first thing I say is, yes, it's really nice, but when we are on the road 3 4 days a week, you're eating out so much, and then you're eating convenience foods in the airport, and that alone is probably where you can start to make the best choice. It's like, what are you eating?
What are you choosing when you go out? For sure. Nutrition, number 1. 1st and foremost. Right? Absolutely. Yeah. And the food the food choices. Food choices. You have to hold yourself accountable and have some discipline because if you don't, it's gonna catch up. And then all of a sudden, it's gonna manifest itself in so many other ways.
Like you said, you're gonna start feeling lethargic, and you're you're, you know, you're not suits aren't gonna fit, and and it's gonna be a whole another thing. Yeah. And we know just, again, from from data behind it, it's really not a secret recipe. It's not some crazy fad diet. It truly is reaching for whole foods, and you can do that on the road. You can absolutely do that on the road. It at the beginning, I feel like it seems like, wait a minute.
I'm not getting this with all the sauces and all the butters and all this rich food on it, but you can do just fine on the road if all you can do is eat at a restaurant. If you're doing vegetable like, making sure vegetables are the key factor on that plate, and then a lean source of protein. You know, a lean source of protein, a plant protein or, you know, some sort of lean meat, staying away from the processed meats.
Yeah. Fast foods, I think, are kind of the the downfall of a lot of road warriors, as I call them. You know, just grabbing some sort of convenience while you're driving, and that, while it's not as exciting, how much can you really enjoy a meal when you're driving with your knee on the steering wheel or you're sitting in the middle seat of a plane? That's when you're just down to Big Mac. Yeah. You're not gonna enjoy it.
When you eat that Big Mac, you wanna be in a place where you can enjoy every last bite of it so you can register what you're eating. And so that's another one is to just be prepared. You know, if you're gonna be on a tarmac delay for 3 hours, you don't wanna get hungry. Put those to find your favorite protein bar, find your favorite convenience food, and make sure you have them in your bag. You know, drop ship them from Amazon is a is a tip that I would say, once a month. That's awesome advice.
I I follow that too. I always have protein bars with me. I try to do grab the banana before I grab, you know, the M and M's. Just because I know I'm gonna feel like crap if I don't. Yeah. And that's it right there. I see people going into, like, the newsstand, and we're lucky right now. Like, we have boiled eggs. We have those nice little cheese wrapped in. Yeah. It's processed meat, but it's better than some of the other things. We have the little cheese, like, fancy charcuterie things.
Whereas, it used to just be you going to a convenience store and it's garbage. And now there's some great choices that you can make and bring on the plane with you or bring wherever. So that we really are lucky with some of those things. There's, like, no excuses. It's just a matter of, you know, really being prepared like you said and and and order this a lot of this stuff ahead of time so you have it with you.
And then if you don't, when you're when you're on the road, you have to, you know, make a choice, try to make it the right one so that you're not cons then, like, we all have to enjoy ourselves sometimes, but, so this is good stuff. So what's number 2? So number 2 is I take from the processed food area, limiting the processed foods. And just as you said, when you walk in, you're like, yeah.
Versus a bag of M and M's. It's really just taking 2 seconds to ask yourself, am I gonna feel good after I ate this? And we just know we have data upon data. There's been beautiful studies published led by the NIH within the past 2 years that eating processed foods during the day, the more you eat, the more calories you tend to eat.
You know, they did a a a gorgeous study where they lined up minimally processed foods with processed, you know, and just watched how much people ate and they tended to eat more on the processed foods. And then all the markers related to stroke, cardiovascular disease, all of those things, you know, diabetes tended to rise as a result of it. So minimizing processed foods is definitely number 2. Awesome. That's awesome.
Yeah. And and it it's so easy to fall into that because everything is processed. Absolutely. Good good advice. What about so what's next? Alcohol. Alcohol is a big one. Wait. What? I know. I know. And, of course and, again, it's not rocket science. I don't think it's rocket science. I think it's taking a second to think about it. And there's 2 factors with alcohol, and the very first one is one we talk about all the time. Right? You know, calories, empty calories. We've been lucky again.
They have all these fancy little seltzers with hard alcohol in it, these I I think they call it White Claw. It's like a beer type thing. Yeah. They have some wiser choices. But, when you go to a restaurant, again, if you're gonna drink, fine. But, again, make a wiser choice. Know, it's funny when I talk to the firefighters, they say, yeah. What did you learn from Maria? And they're like, well, she told us to drink, Scotch on the Rocks. I'm like, I did not.
That's the only thing she picked up from me. But the truth is is that, you know, if you are gonna have something, have a nice, simple, lean cocktail, you know, a tequila and soda, a vodka and soda. Mhmm. And if you're at cocktail hour, it's a really easy way to look at the bartender and say, when I come back, just give me soda. Don't put any vodka in it, you know, so that nobody's gonna question you. Why are you drinking?
Yeah. The second aspect of that and, again, this was such a fun study that was done. It was done. And it's in Nature Communications back in about 2017. And, they actually gave mice alcohol. And now anyone on this call will appreciate how great it is to study the mouse. Right? They eat the same every day. They run the same every day, and that's it. They're they're they're easy to study. We don't need a lot of them.
So they gave the mice alcohol, and what they found was that after the alcohol, they were eating 4 times as much as they normally would just as a result of having that alcohol. And so that's another thing is just to be cognizant of. And part of that too is we say, oh, I'm gonna get the wine because the wine is, you know, better for me. A glass of wine a day, blah blah blah. No restaurant that you go to as far part of the business meal is going to give you a 4 ounce glass of wine.
Wine. No more than anything. No. It's 9 ounces at a minimum. So that's 2 servings right there. So it's just would be mad if they only gave me 4 ounces. I've been like, you know, I need a real glass of wine. Yeah. I pay I'm paying $22 for this glass of wine. Fill it up. Yeah. So being aware of it. The these are really, really good points, and it's kind of funny, but, like, 2 things. You don't realize how much this plays a factor until, like, you start like, you go to for a physical.
You go to the doctor, and, like, you have to tell them, well, how many drinks do you have in a week? And you're like, do I have to answer that? Like, do I really have to answer that? Because you start doing the math. You're counting on your fingers. Not that I drink during the week, but, like, on weekends, you go out. It adds up. And then the other thing is I have some some friends and family members that have recently gone on, like, the weight watchers program.
And I don't know if it's I don't know if it's still called that, but they have they go by it's a system that goes by points. And one of the things is you don't realize how many points alcohol adds to your daily amount that you can choose. So I had a friend who lost a lot of weight, and she would tell us. She's like, I can't. I'm done. Like, I'm I'm at my like, I can't have any more because I hit my number of points for the day. And if I have this other glass of wine, it's 3 more points.
So she just 2 more glasses of wine for her would have put her at 6 points, and I'm I'm making this up. Maybe it's 5 points. I don't know. No. It's like 4 salads. Yeah. You can have, like, 5 apples or a glass of wine. Right. So And the worst is and I again, I don't think we realize this. And again, it's and this was crushing to me because I love, you know, an afternoon at the brewery where you're drinking, like, all these different craft breweries. And all.
Yeah. Yes. And so those remember, alcohol by volume Oh, yeah. That's where the calories are packed in. So when you're getting those that are, like, 10, 11% alcohol by volume Yep. Those are clocking in at, like, 250, 300 calories. You might as well have a milkshake. Yeah. And you don't appreciate it. And, you know, again, we when we go out and we're on the road and you're at a conference, there's a cocktail hour and then there's a dinner.
So even if you're just like, am I gonna have 1 at the cocktail hour and 1 at the dinner? And you're doing that every night during the conference, like, you're having 2 to 3, probably 4 drinks a day over the course of that week. And it and it's just again, it's this creep that we're not fully cognizant of. Man, I'm right there with you. You got me thinking. So okay. So what's next? Let's move on to the next one. Hydration. We absolutely have to be careful about hydration.
That one, I you know, I I've seen people better about it. We're we're much more like, I have mine right here. We're much better about having our bottles of water. But when you're flying a lot, again, appreciating how dehydrated you get, and and I can speak to this not only, you know, as an athlete, but as they get older, we have to appreciate that hydration. That's what keeps all our joints, you know, lubricated and moving past each other.
And it's absolutely critical to have hydration, to to stay as hydrated as you can when you're flying. Even on long road trips, you know, you probably don't wanna drink too much because you don't wanna have to take bathroom stops, but Right. Yeah. Staying hydrated, absolutely key. So your advice for how many ounces of water do you advise a day? Body weight in pounds divided by 2. So yeah. If you're a 150, 75 ounces of water. That's if you're not exercising.
If you're exercising, you wanna do about another 16 ounces for, like, every hour of exercise you put in. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. That's great. Tip I have. Everyone, like, thinks of that and they say, I don't I don't like I just don't like water. I'm like, that's like you don't like air.
It's it's a natural but, one thing, and again, a little extra nutrition benefit, especially if you're on the road, is using a little, branched chain amino acid supplement in the water, and they come in great flavors. I tend to look for ones that don't have artificial sweeteners in them, but it's a great way to get, like, essential amino acids. It's throwing some BCAAs in your in your water. So, you know, leucine is critical, especially again as we get older and our muscles starts to waste away.
I'm gonna do that. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think some work I actually take BCAAs after I workout, but it's just in tablet form, but I think that's a great idea. Question, though. Can I add vodka to my water with the BCAAs, or is that even better? Is that bad? You can, but I like your thinking. So that's why the reason for the cocktail with the seltzer, with something not not tonic water, but with seltzer because you stay hydrated.
So instead of just having a drink that's gonna dehydrate you, you're gonna add water to it. So so I like your thinking. I don't think water taste is good, though. Just saying. Don't mean to derail this conversation. But, anyway, so what are we at? We that was 5, I think. We're at 6. I think nutrition. Yeah. I think we we got through yeah. The food, the water, the alcohol. So what about what's next? What's the next step? Is moving and moving.
I can't tell you how many times I'm on the road with someone and, like, oh, I I really wanted to work to exercise, but I didn't bring my running shoes. How could you not bring them? You're supposed to have them in your bag at all times. Your old pair of running shoes, your old pair of sneakers that you don't wanna use anymore, they're on their way out. Leave them in your bag. That way you never forget them. And to me, it's the easiest thing to have to bring with you.
You could walk or run anywhere, any city. It's the best way to see the city. If you have an hour on your hands, take a walk and move. It's it's critical because you spend so much time sitting all day. Even now, you know, in this virtual environment, the amount of time we sit and it's not just from, like, a a weight perspective or a health perspective. It's low back. I can't tell you how many people I'm working with now. They're like, I've been having back pain.
It's because we sit all day and the pressure on our back and the the pressure on our muscles. So, staying mobile and bringing something with you to get some movement in. You don't have to bring the whole workout kit. You can just bring a comfortable pair of shoes. There's honestly, in this day and age, there's almost zero excuse because all hotels have some kind of gym, even if it's like a cheesy little gym with a treadmill, or you can get outside and walk or run, do something.
You could do some stuff in your in your hotel room. You could pull your laptop up and do and pull up YouTube videos of people doing workouts. There's so many different things you can do now. Like, I was a I I was in the field for 10 years earlier in my career as a 1000000 years ago, and there was nothing like that. We didn't have we didn't have the Internet when I was when I was out in the field. And I'm and I know I'm dating myself, but it's true.
Now there's so many different ways that you could stay active and get a workout even if it's 30 minutes that that we almost have zero excuse. I have 2 client colleagues that they don't know each other. It's 2 separate situations. But, one of them has and this is crazy, but he has not missed a workout, and he's got the days counted. And I'm gonna ask, like, where like, it's, like, 5 years of he runs, like, 10 miles a day for 3 days in a row, and then he walks a certain number of miles.
And then the next 3 days he runs. He's been doing this every single day for, like, maybe it's, like, 17 years. I don't know. And he's out on the field. He's actually a director, MSL director, a VP. So if he could do that to the extent that he's doing it with that kind of mileage and I have another friend who is same thing. He's an MSL director. And he's like, Tom, no matter what, every single day, I do a minimum of 30 minutes of exercise no matter what. 30 minutes. Whatever it is.
Yeah. Whatever you can do. And just start I always say just start. Because even, like, as you said with the videos, you can pull up a 5 minute ab workout. And I always say, starting is the hardest part. Do it in your hotel room and your t shirt, and you'll do 5 minutes. You'll be like, I wonder what else I can do. Once you get like, rip off that band aid, you're into it. Yeah. It's really just put it on the calendar.
And behind that, like I said, everything has to be backed by some sort of science or some sort of rationale is, you know, our American College of Sports Medicine guidelines, a 150 minutes a week. Right? But it's moderate or vigorous, you know? So it's not really like I'm gonna walk 10 minutes from my car to the supermarket. It really is moderate or vigorous. So you and but that's not a lot. That's 20 to 25 minutes a day.
And even now, the other thing that we've known since the eighties, but nobody seems to reinforce, we're kinda seeing it a bit more now with these high intensity intervals, they they've used different types of workouts where, you know, people were on the road, and they wanted to see how what they can do to maintain their current level of fitness. And they did everything. Some increased their volume, some increased their frequency, and some increased their intensity, you know, so shorter time.
And what they found was those that were working out at the highest intensity, even if they only did 15 to 20 minutes, maintain their level of fitness. More so than them who did, like, an hour of really slow walking. So short high intensity is gonna keep you in that area, in that sweet spot. And quick shout out. A lot of people tell me that they work out and listen to the MSL Talk podcast. So quick shout out to anybody that's in the middle of a workout right now. Get that extra rep.
Put in a little extra because we're rooting for you. Maria is rooting for you. No. I love that because I've I've listened to a lot of yours on my walks. I chi a little bit. I have a beach out there, and sometimes in the afternoon at the end of the day, I'll go for a walk. But, yeah, Audible and podcast, just put them on. You won't you you don't wanna stop walking. I do the same thing. I never listen to myself, but I do listen to podcast while I work out.
So, you know, someone told me this is one last piece of advice. We talk about exercise. But, you know, you don't have to have your best run or your best workout. Just lace up your shoes and go. Like, don't worry about a lot of times, because I hear people say, well, I just I'm not in good shape, so I'm not gonna do it. Or I, you know, I'm just I don't know if I'm gonna get a good workout. Like, just do it. Like, don't don't think about it. Don't worry that it's not gonna be your best workout.
Just go. I'm not gonna break any records. Just go. Lace up your shoes, go for a walk, jog a little bit, see where it takes you. So it's funny. I love that you say see where it takes you. One of my other tricks is I have ClassPass. I have a ClassPass membership. It's $15 a month, and they give you credits. And when you get to a town, you open it up. I don't know if you're familiar with this one.
But you open it up, and it will tell you classes that you can go to or gyms you can go to or even like a spa you can go to and how many credits for each one. And not only is a great way to meet go to the city. I've had locations where I frequent, like Chicago, for example, and I found a gym that I love. Like, it was awesome, and I would just always go in there in my class. They thought I lived there. I'm like, no. I just come here in class fest.
But the funny thing is is there's anything you can imagine. I went to 1 and it was called, like, glow something. Now, I truly put on my shoes and run-in a straight line. I don't do anything fancy. And so I go into this workout and it was before the sun came off and it was in this beautiful, like, studio that was all dark, and it was taught by a patriots cheerleader. And you get these trampolines and they give you these glow sticks.
And we spent 45 minutes, like, jumping on trampolines with glues. It was the most ridiculous thing I've ever done, but I will never ever forget it. Never forget it. I did. It was so you discover things, and it was fun. And I remember I was going to a conference for the whole day, and I was like, my day started out as a fully grown woman jumping on a trampoline with glow sticks. And I got a pretty good workout out of it. Yeah. And you just download you just download this app and it's $15 a month?
Yeah. You can do different tiers. So I just do 15. And then if you don't use them up on the road, you can use them in your own hometown. There's probably, like, a gym or, like, a yoga studio you can go to in your own hometown. Awesome. I like that idea. I like it. It's good. It makes it less, like and I've even been in, you know, like, rural environments, and I was like, oh, I cannot find anything. But it just keeps you out of the gloom and doom.
Because I sometimes feel the hotel gym is a little bit too close. It's a little gloomy. Yeah. So yeah. And you walk there, you know, I find a cup of coffee on the way back. So, yeah, that's definitely a great way to stay. Stay moving. Cool. Alright. What's next? Where are we at? Sleep. Sleep is key. Absolutely. Yes. Now we have two things with sleep. Now some people are trying to balance a home life with a road life.
Mhmm. And especially if they have young children at home, they love the road life because they actually get sleep. So for them, they're they're doing it right. But there's little things we don't think about. So, I I I think that the one is, like, you're sleeping in a different hotel every night and you're how can you make it the best for you? Mhmm. Temperature. We know you're gonna get into that deeper sleep if you can just turn on that air conditioner and get it 67 degrees or below.
That's when you're gonna sleep into the deepest sleep. Lighting. I bring, post it notes with me because you know in the hotel room, it's like Lunar Park. When you turn out the lights, you have the microwave, you have the smoke alarm, you have all these things that are glowing. And you don't think about it, but that light is actually still interfering a bit with circadian rhythms. So you do the Post it notes? You just? Put them over.
I think the the whoever cleans the room, comes in the room the next morning, goes, what type of What's wrong with this? Yeah. Because there's all these lights. So, yeah, I put those over them and keeping the room as dark as you can possibly make it. Even still, like, if you're in cities, you know, sometimes, like, New York City, staying in the middle of Times Square, your room is almost flashing all night. So you're not just pushing the curtains back with something to keep it dark is critical.
Yeah. And in the morning What's that? Yeah. In the morning, getting light as soon as you can and making sure you're exposed to that natural light. And any of you who travel through time zones, the absolute best thing that you can do is if it's a shorter trip, stay on your own time zone. So, you know, if you're going from the East Coast to the West Coast and you have your 3 hours, stay on your own time zone. It makes it much easier, especially if you're back and forth across the week. Right.
So in other words, go to bed when you'd normally go to bed on the East Coast within about an hour. Wake up when you'd normally wake up on the East Coast within about an hour. Yeah. Yeah. I I struggle with sleep sometimes because I'm always I'm a 1000000 miles an hour, so my mind starts racing. And I'm, like, thinking of all these things, and I can't sleep. So 2 things that work for me, meditation apps, download a meditation app on your phone.
And you it's like 5, 10 minutes of meditation, sleep meditation, and it really, really works. They do. The other thing is and I heard this, and I think I read this in a book somewhere. But if you can't sleep and you're sitting there and your mind's racing, your mind's racing, you just tell yourself very, very simple. Now is not the time. It you're there's nothing that you can accomplish in the middle of the night.
So thinking about something, pondering something, worrying about something, there's nothing you can do at that point. So now is not the time. Now is not the time to be worried about that. Now is the time to sleep. So if you're sitting there and you can't sleep and your mind is racing, just keep telling yourself, now is not the time. Now is not the time. Now is and you start to convince yourself, well, there's nothing I can do. I might as well sleep. I like that. That's a great one.
Are we allowed to talk about, product? Do you like to say what app you use for meditation? Yeah. Sure we can. Yeah. I think so. Okay. I'm gonna have to charge somebody. Now, so I I actually use the Peloton app Okay. I have it in my phone. We I use the Peloton all the time at home. I love spin classes, and and they have a really, really good their app is awesome.
It's they they have all these it's not just to do rides, you know, like spin rides, but you they have this awesome these all these other workouts and stuff. But I love the meditation app that they have. The Calm app is really good. Calm, I like. Yeah. Yeah. Calm app is really good. But here's the thing too. Like, if let's just say because it's like, both are kinda expensive. I'm not gonna lie to you.
Like, it's you know, the Peloton just for the bike and the monthly is, like, I don't know, 30 or $40 a month. So the app comes with it. But then the comm app, I don't know what it is, but it's, like, 30 or $40. It's, like, kind of expensive for an app. It's not like it's $6 a month or $10 a month or even 15. It's it's it's definitely more than that. And a lot of people I talk to, like, how much spending that kind of money on an app? Well, then just go to YouTube. Go to YouTube.
Yeah. You can look yourself. Right on your phone. And you put the phone next to your bed. And then when you're done, you actually, you'll probably fall asleep in the middle of it. It won't even because that's what it's supposed to do. But so there's no excuse. I mean, you these things really especially if you're in a hotel by yourself, and you're not keeping, like, the family up with this, like, you know, with these, like, voices that are talking to you. It works. It's and it's so important.
I think people want to dismiss it and just say, you know, this is my career. This is busy. I keep going keep getting after it. Yeah. Sleep if we could do without sleep, we would win at everything. We need sleep. It is restorative. From everything, from our mental ability to how well we do during the day, all the way to our recovery from, like, a physical standpoint.
And so I cannot stress, even if you get only 4 hours, make sure it is the best, most restful sleep you can get because that's what we're seeing. And then I think you and I, one of the ideas was when we were talking about this, podcast was, you know, individuals on the road who are travelling, losing sleep, not eating well, the attrition rate is it's terrible. They're leaving companies. They're going elsewhere. They're gonna say, I want a smaller region. I want a smaller territory.
And they get that smaller territory and then they're bored. And then they feel like they failed because they couldn't manage it. And it's not that you can't manage it. It's just there's a lot you do need to manage. And travel is hard. Travel is physically hard.
You're suitcase and you're sprinting through airports and you're trying to get connections and then you gotta get the rental car and and really just letting yourself not even letting yourself, but delivering on what you need to be the best version of yourself the next day. For sure. Just out of curiosity, what what do you target? How many hours of sleep do you try to get every night? I try and get 6. I'm pretty good on 6.
And something that I found the beauty of it, and truly it was the pandemic that helped me get there, was going to bed at the same time and waking up at the same time within, like, an hour. And I've always read that and I always knew the importance of that, But now it's like clockwork, and I'm like I falls I used to be the same as you. Like, just I'd get in bed and I'd be awake for a long, long time. And now that I'm you know, with the pandemic, it was like, alright. It's 9 o'clock.
What else am I gonna do? Yeah. And I'm not a TV watcher. And so, yes, I'd go to sleep and, you know, I was just 9 to 9:30 to 5:30 or whatever. 9 to 5. So Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Alright. No. And I'm with you on that. I think it's somehow, someway, you gotta figure out to find some level of consistency and figure out what's how many hours you really kinda feel like you need for yourself, and then try to stick to it. So what is next? Where are we at?
So the biggest thing that, you know, we probably shouldn't have saved us at the end, but I think it's really the most important, is kind of we always hear work life balance, and I always say there's no such thing as work life balance, especially right now while many of us are living at work, you know, working from home. But how do you make it that if you have a family at home, you can also get do it on the road? And I think that's so important, especially for people with young children.
And to to try and make career choices because you think you can't handle it or you you think it might take away from it is is hard. So it's how can you do it and how can you be the best at it. And I've learned a lot of this from talking to my peers and talking to my colleagues and what works. And I think the best thing is is when you're on the road, be on the road. Yeah. You know, don't bring Netflix with you. Be on the road. When you're on the road working, be on the road working.
Yeah. And if you're smart about it, don't feel like, oh, I'm in the hotel tonight. I'm gonna watch Netflix and do this and I am going to get all my work done, do all my admin, put all my CRM entries in. Whatever you have to do, work on a special project, work on the road. And then when you get home, you're not looking at a long list of admin work on your admin day. You have free time on your admin day.
Yep. Then, you know, it's the type of thing, maybe you can't go to, you know, the big big big dance recital, but you could go to every single practice at 5 o'clock at night. You know? So you it's it's you you might have to rely sometimes on quantity versus the quality of what you do get to go to. But it really is if you're on the road, make the time on the road.
The other thing I heard, and I've I've kinda seen it and I feel it myself, is you try and check-in at home just to not be outside the equation. And sometimes that becomes distracting, you know, and it's almost more disruptive than if you didn't check-in at all. Especially with little kids because they see your face on FaceTime, and then they start missing you all over again. And when's mom coming home? Or when's dad coming home?
And so sometimes it's figuring out very early on, like, when I'm away, should I check-in? Should I not check-in? Like, maybe a quick phone call to say good night or we just text, or I just bring a present back and so, you know, the kids know when I come back, there's gonna be a special treat. They don't need to see me every night. And that way, there's not that disruption to to to the home life when you're not there. Yeah. And, you know, it's it's I think it's really good advice.
Goes back to finding that level of of consistency in your work life. Because if you go if you're on a trip and you treat it as a vacation, not not that it's a vacation because you're working, obviously.
But if you do things differently when you're on the road than you do when you're at home, for example, instead of doing your paperwork for a half hour or an hour or whatever it is, maybe more at night and you're watching Netflix, but you never do that at home, then you're now not you're pulling yourself out of your work life. Yeah. So get into a level of consistency where Monday through Friday, whether you're home or whether you're on the road, you're doing the same thing.
You're spending your day do making, you know, your calls, doing what you need to do, interacting with KOLs, whatever it is that you might you might need to do. And then at night, you catch up a little bit on some of your paperwork. And, look, you need to unwind a little bit. So, like, if at the end of the day like, I'm a big Netflix guy. I love Netflix. And I literally have to turn it on.
And it might it might not it might be it's something I just need, even if it's 30 minutes for me to be looking at something other than my computer screen and thinking about something other than work. And, honestly, sometimes it's like 6 minutes. I'm sound asleep because I'm so tired. Yeah. You know, if you're watching an hour and a half or 2 hours of of Netflix or whatever it is every night, during the week when you could be working, you're right.
All of a sudden, you get home and you have all this work to do, and now you're being pulled away from your kids and whatever else. So I totally agree with that. Yeah. It's no. It's and it's I you do need a way to unwind on the road. You need something that's your kind of turn off because it's usually when you're on the road, you know, especially if you're at a conference or if you're at a team meeting, it's so much stimulation. You're in front of people. You're talking.
You're trying to what are you gonna talk about? Who am I meeting? Let me remember their name. What are we gonna you know, there's so much, especially if you're presenting, you know, getting ready. So you need something to unplug, and it it can be tiring and require a lot of discipline, I think, to kinda do as you say, like, just 30 minutes and not make it an hour. So, yeah, whatever it is.
And it's okay to say no. I find that there's so much pressure to go out at night and to be social at night, and especially when we all get back on the road. I know some of us are back on the road now, and it's more lunches. But getting back on the road, you know, after not seeing everyone for so long, there is a lot of pressure to go out, and then you just come home burnt. So I'd say enjoy the first time we're back out there, but it's okay to say no. I gotta go back to them.
I have something to work on. You know? I I have a phone call to make. Or Yeah. Yeah. I love all this advice. I'm not surprised because you're the best, and I knew that this was gonna be a great conversation. And I knew I was gonna learn something because, like, honestly and meanwhile, we're talking about this. I can't wait to get back on on the road again because I'm gonna get back out, and I'm gonna take people out to dinner, and I'm gonna drink a lot of vodka and drink a lot wine.
And I'm gonna break all these rules, just so you know. Just so you know. But But once in a while. Honestly, I I really do believe in consistency, and I believe that you should find a level of consistency and, and try to stick to this stuff as much as you can. I do I totally totally agree with everything you're saying. The group I work with, we we say 1% better every day. So it's not like I'm gonna go out and do it all. Because you know what? If you try and do it all, you're gonna fail.
Sorry to be such a Debbie downer. But it's just make one one make 1%. On this trip, I'm not gonna buy the big jumbo bag of M and M's and eat that on my plane ride. That's it. I'm gonna buy something else healthier. That's it. You know, on this trip, instead of going out 4 nights, I'm just gonna go out 3 of the So it's 1% better every day and just do something. And, again, the the biggest motivation behind this and, you know, I shared this with you is the the JAMA article that was published now.
It's been almost 30 years ago in 93. And this is what kinda came up with like the whole feet, forks, fingers, you know, move more, eat the right thing, don't smoke. You know, they're like, what's killing everybody? You know, and we know that 80%, it's heart disease, stroke. It's all related to not moving enough, not eating the right things and stress. Yeah, and stress and it's all these things.
And we most of us are working in fields with medications and treatment and devices where we see these patients. We see how dire their health condition becomes. And so I feel like even that is a good reminder that if we so there's a paper published then in 2,009 that looked at this more from a prospective manner.
Truly, if you just do those three things, you know, move a little bit more, eat more vegetables, less processed foods, stop smoking or don't smoke, and you can reduce that risk by so much. It's so easy. And hang out with the right people because I could tell you, I feel like I get better every time I I'm a better person just from talking to you. That's what I feel with you. You always give me so many good tips.
I mean, just from a career perspective, look at what you've developed over how long, and how many MSLs you have inspired, how many phenomenal careers you have kicked off. Like, just that legacy behind, and I love that you're doing this podcast. It's just yeah. You're you're doing it for no other benefit than everyone who's listening to it. And that's I love doing it, and I love talking to people like you, and you are awesome. And I thank you for coming on again.
And you could come on anytime you want because you're the best. Thanks so much. Alright. Thanks, everybody. Well, we have to we have a lot of work to do, but I love that one percent. 1% better every day. Let's leave it at that. I I think that's a great way to go about your life. Yeah. Alright, my friend. You. Thank you. Be well. You too. Thank you so much for listening to the show.
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