Hey, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Alec McCarthy. He's an MSL with MERS Aesthetics, and we talk about leveraging creativity to break into your first MSL role. And I have to tell you, this is amazing, groundbreaking information that we've actually never had highlighted on this podcast before. So you guys are gonna love it. Don't forget to follow me on LinkedIn and check us out on YouTube.
All our videos go on YouTube under the MSL talk channel and visit us for our MSL talk live, which is typically the 1st Tuesday of every month at 1:30 PM EST, and that is on LinkedIn live. Thank you. Welcome to MSL Talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Alec, welcome back, my buddy. How we doing? Good. How are you doing? Awesome. Awesome. I am excited because, we met a while back.
For those of you that have not listened into the episode with Alec and Tim Bialek, you should go back and find it and listen to it. It was amazing. But I've gotten to know this young man over the course of the past maybe 2 years. He's awesome, and I'm really excited about you guys getting to hear from him. He is a true success story. So welcome back, my friend. Thank you for being here. Yeah. Thank you for having me. I'm so excited to be back. Awesome.
We'll do a quick intro so that everybody can know who you are. Sure. So my name is Alec McCarthy. I'm an MSL at Mertz Aesthetics, in the North America, and I'm based out of South Florida. I cover 4 states in the southeast, and I'm a very recent, graduate from the University of Nebraska Medical Center, where I I did my PhD in regenerative medicine and biomaterial engineering. Awesome, man. Well, welcome back. Before we get started, I do have a a sponsor.
This episode is actually sponsored by Momentum Events. Guys, you should check them out. Go to momentum events.com. They actually have 2 conferences coming up. One is 2nd best practices MSL best practices conference. It's a virtual, so you don't have to go anywhere for that one. It's September 14th 15th. And then the second one is, the medical affairs excellence summit. That's in Philly. So that's a live event, and that's on October 13th 14th. I will definitely be there.
And if you use the code if you register for these conferences, use the code Tom 20. You get 20% off. So check it out. Alex, back to you. We are gonna talk today about, leveraging creativity to break into your first MSO role, which you did recently, and you have some really good tips to share. Right? Yes. Yes. That is exactly right. Awesome. And we have to do a disclaimer. Right? You gotta do a disclaimer?
Yep. Before before we get into it, I just wanna say that the views expressed here are my own and not representative, of my employer merge aesthetics. Awesome, man. Let's get into it. In preparation for this, you and I had a conversation. You mentioned some ideas and creativity. One of the things you mentioned was your 70 30 rule. So I would love for you to share that with everyone listening. What is that all about? Sure. So the 70 30 rule, I kind of picked it up.
You know, I I never really heard that number breakdown, but, I think it was the I think it was the cheeky scientist that, like, really first strongly emphasized, at least to me, prioritizing networking. And so, you know, how it sort of naturally played out was once I really got into the rhythm, of of trying to break into this role, I was spending 70% of my time networking and 30%, you know, doing everything else.
So prepping my resume, my CV, you know, scheduling interviews, conducting or I guess doing interviews. And I think that was probably the the most conductive switch that I made while I was trying to break into the role. So early on, right, I think, you know, I I went in with I understood that this was a hard role to break into. And I was like, okay. I'll I'll get a really good resume, and I'll find I'll wait until there's some good jobs out there that I'm a good fit for. No brainer. Right?
I'll I'll get an interview wrong. It, you know, it just that's just not how it happens. And so, you know, you I think and I think a lot of people kinda learn this the hard way is you have to spend the majority of your time networking or, you know, this is an uphill it it's gonna be an uphill battle. You're and I've said this a 1000000 times on this podcast. I'm gonna say it again.
You're way less likely to get an interview from applying to a job than you are from networking with somebody that can put you in position for that job. So the networking game starts early in your career, but it never ends. You need to network throughout your entire career. And it's so much more important when you're at the beginning of your career because you're developing those relationships and making inroads with people that could be in position to help you.
And and over the course of your career, that doesn't go away. So the more people you connect with, the more you're gonna leverage those relationships throughout the course of your career, put yourself in positions, not just for new opportunities, but also for promotions or, even, you know, stuff that you can do on the side, different collaborations that are gonna happen, you know, maybe outside of your specific role, but that would would lend itself to the development of your career.
So I am 1000% on board with this 70 30 rule. I think networking is is probably the most important thing that you can and should do, throughout your career, but especially in the beginning of your career. So awesome advice. And so do you would you say that that's what helped you land your position? Without question. And, you know, I think we'll we'll we'll get into this next, but, you know, it as I figured out, you know, this 70 30 thing, networking's the key.
And a lot of this you know, I understood a lot of that because of this podcast. But, you know, then it became, who do I talk to? And if you guy if if if anyone has listened to the previous podcast, it's it's obvious. I'm a numbers guy. I love math. So I actually went back and approximated the response rates, with different types of of jobs and degree holders. And I went so far as, you know, to to reach out to the CEO and the CMO and the CSO of the company that I'm currently at. Right?
So just kind of a thought experiment of, you know, am I at first, I'm I'm hitting up all of these MSLs. Response rates, not not super high. So I'm like, okay. Who else can I talk to? And I so so the first nugget that that I gathered was reach out to the Salesforce. And so I so, actually, at the job that I'm currently at, the very first person I spoke to was was a sales rep in the northeast. You know? And I was I was straightforward. Hi. My name is Alec McCarthy.
I'm really interested in hearing about your relationship with medical affairs. And, you know, I I had a great conversation, with this rep, and he immediately at the end was like, let me put you in contact with all of our MSLs. And it was boom. And so I started applying this to to other companies, you know, at the time, and I I I noticed immediately the sales reps are almost twice as likely to reply to you if you message them on LinkedIn. The MSL response rate for me was, it was about 55%.
I found PhDs were were a bit more likely to reply than the farm d the farm d's. I don't know if that's just because they have more empathy for somebody leaving academia. I'm not sure. The other the other really interesting thing when I started doing this, right, I'm trying to get creative with who I'm talking to. The CEO and the CMO of Merz replied to my message. And they're like, Alec, thanks for reaching out. This is the person you need to contact.
The person that they they sent me to was the hiring manager. And so they they made the introduction and, you know, it was I did not think that they were gonna reply. Right? Who thinks that that they're gonna reply? But what ended up happening was, you know, I hit it from 22 angles. I talked to the Salesforce, and I talked to the CMO and the CEO.
So, you know, both of them directed me to the MedAffairs team, and, you know, and I I felt that it was received well when I was interviewing that I could say I had spoken with the sales reps. You know, it sounds like medical medical affairs has a great relationship with the sales force and, you know, with with r and d. And it kind of gave, I think, you could definitely tell that, you know, I did my due diligence.
And and even after, you know, I I got this job, it was it was something that one of one of my colleagues said was, you know, that was that was really, one unusual, 2 impressive that you reached out to sales. So don't limit yourself, to just reaching out to MSLs. But, you know, shockingly, they have the they have the the lowest response rate, at least in my experience.
Reach out to the the medical officers, the VPs, reach out to the Salesforce, find a way in, and and figure out how to leverage that as you're interviewing. Groundbreaking. So this is this is groundbreaking news for the MSL Talk podcast.
Nobody has ever come on this podcast and and recommended MSL aspiring MSLs or MSL candidates should reach out to folks on the sales side, nor has anybody made the recommendation to go to c suite folks within a company, nor have we gotten statistics on response rates. I think that that's actually really compelling to hear that PhDs are more likely to respond than than PharmDs, and that sales reps are much more likely to respond than MSLs.
And this I'm sure a lot of it is maybe a byproduct of, there's probably timing, an element of of catching the right people at the right time, and some a lot of other factors. But that's really, really insightful information. Let me go back to the c suite folks. What was so you reached out to these individuals directly? Right. What was the messaging when you reached out to those folks? I was gonna get to this as well, but we'll touch on it now.
I actually I I sort of came up with not a generic message, but I found that when I directly, you know, was like, I'm interested in x job, and I'd love to hear about it. Response rates significantly lower than when I reached out and just said, you know, I my name is Alec McCarthy. I'm interested in becoming an MSL and would love to hear about your experience at your company.
And instead of, you know, making it obvious I was applying, you sort of, you know, I think if you invite them to to sort of talk about their company, their experience, response rate, also higher. And so for the c suite, I just I really I did the same thing. You know, in this case, it was it was Mertz's, chief medical officer. She's awesome, doctor Phillips. And I just reached out. I said, doctor Phillips, my name is is Alec McCarthy.
I'm very interested in in, you know, transitioning to a medical affairs role. And I've spoken to a sales rep at Merck who said he really enjoyed working with the MedAffairs. I would love to be put in contact with, you know, the best person to speak to about this. And she replied 2 days later, hey, Alec. Thank thank you for your interest. The person you're looking for is is, you know, Kate Serna, who is is now, our MSL, director. She's also awesome, but that's that's exactly what I did.
And Merck's wasn't the only company that I did this at. And, you know, astoundingly, of the of the 6 c suites that I reached out to, 5 replied, and I was blown away by that. Wow. That's crazy. That's crazy. I wouldn't I wouldn't expect that. I would expect goose eggs, and nobody would be getting back to you. As a matter of fact, if someone asked me, hey, Tom. I'm an aspiring MSL. Do you think I should reach out to, you know, folks on the c suite?
I'd probably say, no. I don't think that's your best bet. Awesome info, man. And and again, groundbreaking. I think that let me interject by saying that there's probably a big difference in and this is my professional opinion. Probably a big difference in c suite folks at, you know, different companies, different size companies. Right. I know doctor Phillips. She's great. She you know, you you caught somebody who's who's who's really just a very giving person.
I I think that she's the she is definitely a good example of somebody that would want to invite that sort of thing and wanna give back. But there's there's also, you know, CMOs and VPs at AstraZeneca, for example, Merck, BMS.
It's a little harder to get to those folks, not to take anything away from anyone else at any other size company, but I think that there might be distinguishing factors for different folks at different size companies or, again, timing wise, when you're getting to those folks. A 100%. You know, take take my ex my anecdotal experience with a grain of salt. The companies that I was applying to, you know, given my my background, it was, you know, it was regenerative medicine.
These companies aren't huge. But, you know, I think, actually, some some advice that my my lab adviser gave me was it doesn't hurt to try. Yeah. Well, hey. It paid off for you. So what else? I know there's a lot of other things that you wanted to talk about. So let's get to some of the other creative ideas that worked for you. Sure. So I have a I have a laundry list. With so when when you make I guess we'll start here. So now you've made a connection.
Maybe it's an MSL, may maybe it's someone else, but we'll we'll for this sake, we'll just pretend it's an MSL. They are, you know, busy, very, very busy. And I think that it's it's important to bring something to the table for them too, especially if you wanna foster the relationship. You know, really the first MSL that I got in contact with was Tim Bialekki, who for, you know, for those who don't know, Tim is an MSL, and he he graduated from UNMC a couple years ahead of me.
And when we first spoke, you know, he was he was great. He he became a mentor, and it was something I really wanted to foster. I'm thinking to myself, right, like, as I'm a PhD student at the time, and I'm like, what do I have to offer this guy? You know, nothing. Right? And I'm like thinking, what can I do? I can I can coauthor Tim? I'll invite him to work on an article with me. You know, I thought, you know, that that could be something interesting.
And, you know, a year later, we we've coauthored 3, you know, 3 studies together. We've been on this podcast together. And he's not the only one that that, you know, I've always that I've tried to bring something to the table, whether it's an introduction, whether it's, you know, it's it's insights. Try to try to make it mutually beneficial as much as possible, and and always be grateful when somebody lends you their time and their insight because it is it is valuable. You know?
There there's there's a lot of people trying to break into the role. There's a lot of people that will reach out, on LinkedIn. So I know, you know, being on both sides in in less than a year, you know, it's it's there's a lot of people that reach out. So so it's always good, and it's it's well received to be to be grateful when somebody gives you a lot of their time. No doubt. No doubt. And that approach and I'm I wanna talk about that for a second.
I think that the approach is really important when you reach out to folks. If you can give and what do MSLs do? MSLs provide value to their KOLs, external stakeholders, and their internal stakeholders. They bring back insights to their company and they solve problems for their their organization. So how do you bring value to somebody else when you're asking them for a favor?
So one of the things that's important is when you approach someone to be a mentor or to do an informational interview or just to connect with you, you wanna try to give the benefit back to that person. You wanna reach out with something. So I love when you said, I'm interested in becoming an MSL. I would love to hear about your experience. People love to talk about themselves.
People love and people like to help others too, but they prefer to probably do it in the in a manner that's going to help suit them and be able to tell their story as well. People also want some type of benefit for their time. So if you can give the benefit to the other person in some way, collaborate with them in some way, you mentioned co authoring an article, We're maybe doing a favor. You also went to somebody that you have something in common with with. You both went to the same school.
Right. So you're leading with a very easy I mean, it's an easy connection that you made. These are all best practices for networking. So I wanted to stop there just to throw in my 2¢, but I think it's brilliant. I think that it's absolutely brilliant. Thank you. Yeah. And a lot of these this a lot of this is a culmination of tips that I heard listening to this podcast, and it's something that I stress. You know, I I can't stress it enough, when when people ask, what do I need?
What, you know, what do I need to to break in? And And I always tell them that there are 2 necessities, 2 things that you absolutely need. The first one is LinkedIn premium. It is worth it. Buy LinkedIn premium. You know, they they give, I think, 2 months free, a month free, something like that. Do it. You you it it it makes your, you know, it makes applying so much easier. And check your LinkedIn social selling index, your SSI.
Check your LinkedIn social selling index and figure out kind of how to play the algorithm. Right? So is it commenting? Is it liking? Is it sharing posts? What's gonna drive your SSI up? Because all of that is just visible visibility within the circle, you know, that you're you're trying to break into. You know? So use and leverage LinkedIn premium. The second thing that you need is to listen to this podcast. Guys. Like, start on the fir I'm I'm I'm serious.
These are the two things that I say you need. This is the MSL talk podcast is is the single most valuable, collection of of insight, of of data, and of advice that you will find. You know, the nice to haves, Cheeky Scientist is great. The MSL Society, you know, you definitely get a membership. You can you can read the book. You know, those are those you can do the MSL Society's training program, the from science to pharma.
Those things are nice to have, but the two needs are LinkedIn premium and the MSL Talk podcast. You know, every everything else is super, super beneficial, but I don't think they're necessities. I didn't tell Alec to say that. Just just wanna just wanna go on record. I didn't tell him to say that. But, I listen. I appreciate that, and I appreciate everybody that has made this podcast a success. I'll be totally honest with you. Very rarely do I go back and listen to episodes because I just don't.
I kind of produce these. I put it out to the universe and that's it. I don't go back and listen. I also don't like the sound of my own voice. But recently for academic purposes, I was working on a project. I had to go back and listen to certain episodes. And I have to tell you, it's this is really awesome content, and I'm not that's not a pat on my back.
I'm patting the backs of the Alec McCarthy's, the Tim Bialek's, you know, the Kathy Andorffers, the Mitch DiRosario's, the Sarah Snyder's, and, you know, Paul Ward. I'm I can name every single person that's been on this podcast and has been on this podcast multiple times. The success of this show is because of them. It's because of you guys.
And, I think that there's something for everyone in the medical affairs world, whether you're an aspiring MSL, a new MSL, an experienced MSL, an MSL leader, Think there's something for everybody. And just as a kind of a public service announcement, if you're interested in a podcast episode directory to see where different categories of episodes, like episodes on interviewing, episodes on territory excellence. There is a resource. It's literally on my LinkedIn profile.
If you just go to my LinkedIn profile, it's a PDF and you just click on it and it has everything broken out. So if you really want to get an idea which episodes to watch, it's a great resource. I have to update it, but most of it is on there. So you sh you can go through it and see which episodes fit into which categories. It might be helpful for you to pick out which ones you wanna or just go to episode 1 and listen to every single one of them.
That's exactly, that's exactly what I did when I was when I was applying. I I had them, I actually listened on Spotify, and I had playlists. Right? So early on, I had, like, a collection of the breaking in and, like, the advice to aspiring MSLs. And, you know, once I sort of mastered that, then it was you know, once I was getting offers, I listened to the negotiating offers.
And, you know, now that I'm in the field, or when I was starting in the field, it was, you know, optimizing the field, you know, field excellence. So I I just made Spotify playlists and really used them, you know, based on on the needs at the time. That's awesome. That's good stuff, man. So let's keep going. You like, this is just amazing advice. What else do you wanna talk about?
So one of the the prompts that we had too was, you know, what do I feel is important for aspiring MSLs to get noticed? And this is something that that I was you know, I prioritized a lot that that paid off, and I'll I'll give you know, I'll I'll start broad. So know the space that you wanna go into. Right? So I'm an engineer. Both my undergrad and and my PhD were in engineering, regenerative medicine and engineering.
There are not a lot of companies that have MSLs, you know, in the tissue engineering or regenerative medicine space. And that's just sort of, you know, the nature, of the degree that I got. I understood that was the case, and I took a proactive approach. So I sat I literally sat down. I'm I've made a Google doc, and I Googled. Right? So I I had a really, a derm and and an ortho, regenerative medicine background. I Googled the 20 largest derm and the 20 largest ortho companies in the US.
And I took so this was like this took me a full week. So I came up with this list. I'm looking on their website. Do they have net affairs? I'm on LinkedIn, and I start I just start networking. There are no jobs posted. So I'm being proactive in building so I've won. I knew the space. So the 20 biggest players in the US, and I started networking. I'm not kidding you. So I I reached out to one company on Friday and and start they had 2 MSLs at the time, and one of them responded right away.
So I have a call with them on Monday. Call goes well. On that Wednesday, they post a job for an MSL. And right? So you strike while the iron is hot. I and I was proactive in instantly. Right? I I reached back out, got a referral, got an interview, you know, and and for for that company, things worked out. It's not the company I ended up at, but, you know, for for the sake of securing the interviews and eventually an offer, it worked out.
But, you know, that would not probably would not have happened if if I wasn't being proactive. So I you know, when I when I try to help people now, a lot of the times, you know, I'll ask them how many jobs have you applied to, what's your response rate. They're like, well, I just you know, I don't I feel like there aren't enough jobs posted, so then I don't have anyone to talk to. So I always stress the importance of proactive networking.
So if you know the space and you can start to build that network within that space, you will be ready to go when the job gets posted. So don't wait don't wait until the job is posted. Be ready. You should and and there's another thing we kind of breezed past, but have your specific your your TA specific resume ready to go. You know? So I think I have 3. I had a diagnostic, MSL resume, an ortho, and a derm MSL resume. So be ready to go when that job pops up. So much to unpack.
I don't even know where to start, but that's everything that you just said is so textbook, and it's stuff that I know that I've covered before. But I just think that the detail in the way you describe it is so powerful, and it's so relevant. And I hope that everybody listening is taking notes to be able to do this. Because what happens is a lot of times and I know the feeling. I understand. People get stuck in their search. They don't know what to do next.
There I people reach out to me like, Tom, I'm trying everything. I applied all these positions. Nothing's happening. Well, you hit the nail on the head. You used the word proactive. It takes a lot of detail. It takes a lot of research and a lot of legwork. So creating that list of companies specific to your background and putting yourself in position in that community get you one step closer. It's moving you forward into the right direction. I have people that reach out to me.
Like, Tom, I have a unique background. My background is I wanna be an MSO, but I'm a physical therapist or I'm a I'm a chiropractor. Well, don't apply for an oncology position. Don't apply for a diabetes position, you know, but maybe if you apply for positions that are in the musculoskeletal space or orthopedic space, and you identify companies in that space, network with people in that space, you're positioning yourself based upon your expertise in your background.
I also talk about you mentioned the scientifically relevant CV or resume. I talk all the time about how important it is to match your resume to job descriptions. Find the keywords, phrases, and language used in job descriptions and put that on your CV. Make it match and mirror. Now you have to be able to support any of the claims that you make, but you need to have that ready to go. This is all really, really practical and really, really good advice. I can't stress this stuff enough.
Go back and listen to this and take notes. So let's talk before I let you go. We we're breezing through this time. I can't believe it's already been, like, 30 minutes. But I wanna just ask you one more thing. So you mentioned we use the word creativity in the title of this podcast in this episode. Were there any other creative ways that we maybe didn't talk to talk about yet that helped you that you wanna show other give others, some ideas about?
Definitely. So, I think one of the most impactful in this it's a good segue from what we were just talking about. Everyone that is applying for MSL jobs should know how to publish. Right? And they should know their way around scientific literature. You should know how to write. These are, you know, these are crucial for the role. Leverage it while you're applying. And, you know, I so I'm a PhD student. Right? I I transit I actually started my MSL job before I defended my dissertation.
And so I'm like, okay. I know that I'm gonna be dealing more with, with numbers and and with, you know, the pharma side of things. I like writing. I'm gonna I'm gonna publish something on you know, at the time, this was like the the the idea behind the the social data. And I did it, you know, on my own. It got published in a in a peer reviewed scientific journal. And then I I was like, Okay. So I did that, you know, with a coauthor. It went well. And that's when I was like, okay.
I can do this, you know, without a PI. My PI is obviously you know, my principal investigator was okay with this. But do it write a mini review, write a small article in the TA that you wanna break into. I know that's that's like a lot of people are like, I can't do that. You can do that. You can do that. A mini review, a small article, perspective article, do something, you know, to especially and I think this is especially relevant to to non PhDs where maybe you don't publish as much.
It will make you stand out like you could not believe. You know, if you take the time and it it you know, you can always do a smaller article or or find somebody to to help you do this, but, you know, that I think was was really creative. I, you know, I ended up we ended up publishing a couple times in the MSL journal, which is a great option, especially if you can gather, you know, useful information.
Everybody we all love data, so doing some polls or, you know, for for Tim and I, we did the social data for the MSLs. Find a creative way to get your name out and and show that you, you know, you can play in this in the TA that that you wanna break into. Yep. And I'll give you guys a little hint, little piece of advice of what works for me, is give yourself a chance to be inspired and find inspiration.
What I mean by that is so Alex just gave really good advice about coming up with ideas of, of articles and how you can get published, how you can get your name out there, get your information out there, put forth some really good information. Well, okay. So now you decide, all right, I'm going to take him up on that. What am I going to write about? Don't convince yourself that you have to make that decision right this second.
What you wanna do is first agree and make a deal with yourself that you're gonna write an article, a scientific article. And then what you wanna do is, every single day, as you're going about your day, pay close attention to things that resonate with you. Make little notes. Come up with little ideas. Even take notes and put them on your phone. Everybody has their phone with them at all times. Just pop up and pop open one of the note prompts in your phone and put ideas in there.
Because the inspiration doesn't always come when you want it to come. It comes at different times when you may not be expecting it. So give yourself a week or 2 weeks or 3 weeks to really come up with a topic that you're you're confident about, you're comfortable with. It can be super, super specific about your area of expertise, about your therapeutic area of focus, and something scientific, something that just pops into your mind. And then when you get that inspiration, then you go for it.
And I think it's that's way more important than trying to force this, because if you force it, it's not gonna come off the same way. Do you agree with that? A 100%. And you'll hit writer's block. You know, fine. You have to you have to be passionate. You have to to want it. And, you know, especially if if this is the TA that you want, you should love it. And it should be easy. You know, for me, now as an MSL, work doesn't feel like work. That's that's that's the goal, man.
That's the goal is to get into a job that you pop out of bed every day and you enjoy doing it. It doesn't feel like work. And I feel like that. I'll be honest with you. I love what I do, and I'm excited about it. But I also challenge myself. I think it's important for everybody to challenge yourself and to stay true to your goals, your values, and what your intentions are. So, not gonna get into that. I already talked about core values, talked about intention on this podcast.
Do wanna give Alec, I wanna give you one more opportunity to close this out. Final piece of advice. Don't give up. This applying or breaking in was the hardest thing, in terms of, like, work, school that I've ever done. I remember calling Tom, like, you know, pretty distraught. Like, Tom, it's been I graduate in a month. Hey. Do do I need to take x, y, or z role to try to break in? And, and I talked to Tim too, and and they're just like, no. Just be persistent.
You gotta shake shake off, you know, the rejections, and keep your head up, and don't give up. You will break in. You know what, man? You're a great story. You're you're a success, and I appreciate you coming back on here and sharing all of this awesome, awesome knowledge with the medical affairs community, specifically the aspiring MSLs out there. So you're a good man, Alec. And I I you're a role model too. I want you to know that. And, you're a special guy.
So guys, look at this dude as, as as an example of where you can and will be. But I hope you take this advice. And, again, go back and listen to this or share this share this with other people that are out there in the same position that are looking. So, Alec, thanks again, my man. You're the best. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. Anytime. Awesome, man. Let's do it again. See you soon. See you. Bye, everyone. Thank you so much for listening to the show.
And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.