Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Chad Schroer. He is senior director USMA field medical excellence at BeiGene. And we discuss strategies to prepare yourself for career transition, whether it's to grow in your current role or to move into a new role after a layoff. So this is a great conversation. I think you guys are really going to enjoy it.
Don't forget to follow me on LinkedIn and try to join us for MSL talk live, which is typically the 1st Tuesday of every month at 1:30 PM EST, and those announcements are made on LinkedIn. So thank you for joining us. Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Chad. Welcome to the podcast. Hey, Tom. Great to be here. Yeah, man. I am excited, guys. So, give you a little backstory.
So Chad and I know each other for a while and ran into each other a couple times at, Mass East and different conferences and came up with I don't know. We've been planning to do this for a while. And Chad came up with this idea. It's kind of one of these based on real life events sort of things. And we decided to turn it into a podcast. So, Chad, before we get into it, can you do a quick intro? Yeah. Definitely. So hi, everybody, and thank you, Tom.
First, I wanna thank you for all you do to raise the profile of the field medical role and to provide this opportunity for us to have a forum to share and learn from our peers. So so thank you very much for that. I'm a big fan. And hi, I'm Chad Schroer. I am a senior director, at BeiGene in field medical excellence. I've been in the in the industry for quite a while. I started as a, and still am a family practice physician. Moved into industry, several years ago as an MSL.
So that was my first role into pharma. It, also afforded me the ability to move from my hometown of Phoenix, Arizona where I had a private practice to New York where I still reside. Was an MSL for several years and then moved into managing MSLs, leading field medical departments, spent some time as a medical director, led the medical affairs group at a medical education agency and for the past 7 or so years I've been in field medical excellence, in, in both global and now in a US capacity.
And I've worked across small biotechs to medium to larger companies. And by the way, Chad's being super humble. The guy's like a monster. So like I guys, I'm so excited that he's here. You know, it's funny too, you know, when you say Bay Beijing, like, Beijing, actually, I think there's gotta be some kind of MSL talk podcast award for the company that's had the most MSL talk podcast guests. That would probably be Beijing. So I don't know who I need to thank for that.
Or maybe I should like, you guys owe me like some kind of sponsorship money. I'm not really sure, but, speaking of sponsors, this episode is sponsored by MSL mastery. And if you're not familiar, Sarah Snyder, who's a top recruiter medical affairs recruiter on my team, and in the industry, we created. A online course called aspire MSL, and it's for anyone looking to break into the MSL role. It's a step by step guide complete, step by step.
So if you're interested and you're looking for, Help and you're on the job search, Definitely go to mslmastery.com and check out the Aspire MSL program. So, Chad, let's get right into this. I'm really excited. I wanna start and ask if you could tell everyone your story about what happened in your prior company. Yeah. So, yeah. So I was laid off. The company went through, like many do, unfortunately, a reorg, downsizing, or cost efficiency initiative.
And unfortunately, my, role was, was part of that reorganization and reduction. So, yeah, in terms of what actually happened on that day, it was a normal day. I, had a regularly scheduled call with my manager. So I know oftentimes when this happens, there's this suspicious, short, calendar invite, you know, on the same day. But this was a regularly scheduled call, so I spent the morning preparing for that call, what I planned to talk about, the topics, and then questions I had.
And, of course, when I when I joined the, the video call, there was somebody, across the screen that, wasn't familiar to me. So that was the HR person letting me know that I had been affected by this, by this reorg. Jeez. So so it sounded like you were blindsided. You know, looking back, I I wasn't. I actually, strangely felt like it was coming. Okay. Talking about it with friends and family for for quite a while, so much so I actually stopped talking about it because it wasn't happening.
So I I actually was anticipating it and and made the conscious decision to, sort of let it ride out and to, not seek other positions. But I envisioned myself taking the nice severance and taking a few months off to relax, before sort of seeking a new role. So, so so but I was more surprised actually in my reaction to to finding out the news because I had played it over and over in my head and thought I would be, okay. This is great. Thank you.
Looking forward to this this this this time off, this staycation. However, I was surprised at how, intense and, the range of emotions that I experienced. And I had been on the other side of this. I had delivered this type of message to direct reports previously. So so I knew this spiel. I knew the whole, you know, it's not you, it's the role and, nothing we can do and all of that. But when it happened to me, there was a ton of grief of I went through all of the stages of grief.
In fact, some of them I I revisited a few times. A lot of, you know, self doubt, questioning, what I could have done differently. I should have left earlier. I should have, you know, found another opportunity. So so it was it was a very challenging time, but a very surprising reaction. Not what I expected.
So it really sort of shows, you know, when you when you sort of think and you sort of have this scenario of how it's gonna play out, but when it's involving you, it can go in a completely different course, and it certainly did. Yeah. And the the reason that I think this episode is so important is because there are so and I'm so grateful that you're sharing your story, Chad. Thank you for being vulnerable and and telling us what happened and telling us that you thought you were prepared.
Yeah. And then when it happened, you really kinda weren't because the emotional impact was, was significant. There's a lot of people going through that right now, whether, whether they were completely surprised by it and blindsided or whether they weren't and they kind of knew it was happening, but the emotional toll is still the same. Yeah. It sounds like. So I guess the question that I have for you, this next question's kind of a loaded question because I wanna learn how did you pivot?
Yeah. And how did you set yourself up for what was next? But I also wanna kinda, like, 2 part question. Like, what would you do differently? And then how did you pivot? Yeah. So I'm not sure there's anything I would have done differently. I'm certainly knowing myself better now. I I wouldn't if there was any inclination, that there was going to be a layoff, I would have tried to look for another position.
I wouldn't have just sort of let it ride out and and think that I would be able to, enjoy this, this, few months off. So I know myself better. I know I need to, find a position. I know how I would handle that situation if it was to happen again. So that would be the one change I would make. But I think in terms of somebody setting themselves up to ensure that they're hireable for a future position, it's all about a long term strategy.
It's really about doing things from ensuring the reputation that you're making with your colleagues, that they regard you as somebody that shows up, that does the work, that's responsible, that's responsive. You're leaving a good impression. You're, not only building that internal network, but you're creating an internal network that would be a champion for you if they move to another company. And it's all about relationships, of course.
So so building that internal network and importantly, building that external network. So those folks outside of your company, so doing that through going to industry conferences and getting to to know people, reaching out to people. You know, if you, hear somebody on this podcast that you think is interesting, that that you want to sort of learn more about their career progression, reaching out to them.
So building networks internally, externally so that you can rely on those people and reach out to them to learn about new opportunities, to learn about the company that they're currently at, and certainly to use them as a referral source. That's just such a tremendous answer to that question. And I I wanna just emphasize the importance of the networking piece. We talk about it all the time on this Yeah. On this show.
It's so important to continue to do this, not just when you're looking for a job. The whole idea is to nurture these relationships and meet more people and build and maintain the relationships and make it reciprocal. You're going to be doing favors for other people, and they're going to want to do favors for you. So you're setting up this, these relationships in your career that are going to pay dividends in 2 ways.
They're paying dividends to you at some point in the future, but you're, you're going to feel really good when you help somebody else and they're going to remember it. Now, Chad, you mentioned the word and I love this expression. And I think that people, we need to kind of tune in on this because I think it's so critical for this episode, career progression. What else should people be doing to develop that career progression? What's involved in that?
Yeah. Yeah. What I always find interesting, and certainly it's it's my story as well. But I hear oftentimes guests on on your podcast talk about how they sort of fell into positions, how how opportunities just sort of opened up for them, which is great, but that doesn't happen for everyone. So certainly having that long term strategy of what you want to achieve, where you see yourself, and it very well may be just growing in a role.
And I think oftentimes we overlook that sort of those career MSLs and we don't do enough to nurture and support that. There's so much pressure to move on to the next role and what's next. I listened to a podcast, with Archie Stone, where you talked about chasing titles. And I think a lot of folks, they do that. They think, okay, it's been a few years. I need to find something else.
But I think it's important to to have that strategy to understand what role, what department, what type of work you see yourself in. Do you have the right skill sets for that? If not, how can you develop those? Have you met with people who are in that role or in that department to make sure that it's a good fit? Are you able to do an internship or a secondment so that you can check it out and get to know really the day to day and and how it is to be in that position or that department?
I think a key thing is getting a mentor, finding somebody who, ideally maybe has been on a similar career path as you, somebody maybe that you aspire to be in a similar role. Somebody who will help to coach you and guide you and that you can bounce ideas off of and say, is this a good fit? Does this make sense? Is this a good place for me to gain this experience?
And again, going back to skill sets, I think there are so many opportunities for ongoing learning, especially if you're currently with the company. Many companies offer various free learnings through LinkedIn Learning or, Skillsoft and and others.
So e learnings and and maybe there's an instructor led courses, leveraging what companies might offer in terms of allowing you to go to industry conferences so you can get to know people again, but also learn about various career opportunities and roles within medical affairs. So whether that's in person or virtual, there's a lot of low cost or free opportunities to learn more.
Certainly, you know, this podcast, there's other free resources from Medical Affairs Professional Society, from MAPS, from the MSL Society. So just a lot of great resources to continue to build your skill sets, to build your your network.
And again, that that mentorship I think is is is critical and making sure you find the right person and and maybe even testing a few until you land on somebody, where you're a good fit and you're you're truly getting the the the coaching and and the feedback that will help you either grow in your career or navigate to find that new position. Man, there's so much to unpack there, and I'm not even going to attempt it.
What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna tell everyone you should really rewind and listen to that again. Because when we talk about career development and career progression, all of what Chad just said, like those are the key factors that you need to focus on. The one thing I will add is that this, this is, this is you. This has to be you. You have to do this. Like Chad said before, it's kind of a fairy tale to think that positions are just going to fall in your lap every once in a while.
You're gonna be like, oh, it's kind of crazy. This position just came to me or that's not really how it normally happens. And career progression doesn't happen like that either career progression and career development happened because you create it it's it's self created. And all of the things that you just talked about from networking to skill development, to mentorship, to personal development and educating yourself.
All of these things and taking advantage of the resources that are available to MSLs now, which has never really been as rich as it is right now. So there's no excuse. And this is like the world is your oyster. There's so much available. But I kinda almost feel like Chad, do you think it's like, do people need to cast a vision for the future? Are they almost predicting their future by doing this? Can you talk about, like, how they they navigate the per career career progress?
I mean, you told us told them what to do, but what about the the vision of it? Yeah. Yeah. Definitely, there should be a strategy. I think, you know, of course, you have to remain flexible. And also, I think it's important to monitor the industry to really understand what's coming next and where are the growth opportunities? What are those roles that really seem to be growing and you're maybe seeing, more of those being posted and maybe this is something I should consider.
Certainly when I joined the industry as an MSL, I don't think field medical excellence even existed back then. So I couldn't have had that in my vision. But as I grew in my career and as, excellence types of roles became more commonplace and it really fits what my interests were and my skill sets, it was a great match.
So I think in addition to having that that vision, you know, having the the the mentor to help guide you, being able to also see what where the industry is going and having that flexibility so that you can pivot and that you can also be open to new opportunities that maybe, you know, you didn't think that maybe sort of weren't part of your original plan. I think that's critical as well.
I'm glad you talked about the medical excellence, you know, piece because that's another avenue that I think a lot of people haven't really been aware of. It's somewhat newer in the medical affairs lifespan. And it is it's a obviously, you've you made a career out of it and and you wound up in an amazing role.
So that's the other thing is to be, like you said, to be aware of the paths and be curious and, and talk to people and see what's available internally, potentially as a next step for you, talk to your supervisor. And also sometimes you have to look externally and see what's out there. That might be good for you next. So I think that's amazing advice, but I want to get back to something that you mentioned before, which was, skill development.
So what, what do you think, what skills do you think are most important for MSLs to develop to help with their career progression? Yeah. It definitely depends on on what that end game is, what the role is you're seeking. MSLs, you know, part of the day to day work is to of course engage with HCPs.
So you're already sort of building that foundation for how to interact with people, how to network and how to, you know, have conversations that are tailored to an HCP, but also making sure that you're adapting to their style and to their needs. So you're already building that great capability that can serve you, of course, to to build your your peer network as well. But it depends.
If somebody wants to go into management, then certainly, you know, they wanna focus more on on leadership and and gaining skills there. So maybe taking on, you know, a project, being a team lead. So looking for any opportunities where they can gain leadership experience. If somebody wants to move more into a medical director role or business development, it would be, an additional but different set of skill sets that they wanna focus on.
So I think it's about finding, those positions and maybe it's more than 1. So finding that role or those roles that are of interest to you and where you see yourself in the future. Hopefully, having the opportunity to reach out to somebody that's in that position to understand how they got there, what they would say are the skill sets that are critical, that you wanna have in your CV, that you wanna be able to communicate during an interview.
And, whether that's an internship, the secondment, additional projects, or doing some training and skill work outside of the company. But whatever you can gain to, raise your skill level and also to raise your understanding of that future role to make sure it is something that you want to, pursue. And that's quite important, to to stay well rounded, but also to put you on that path to ultimately where you want to be.
You know, that's so interesting that you mentioned, Archie Stone's episode Yeah. Because you you gave very similar advice than he did. And that is when you're trying to when you're working on career progress, this isn't exactly how he said it, but, he mentioned, look at job descriptions, specifically the top 3 bullet points, if you will, the responsibilities and the top three bullet points on the requirements. And that's what you need to focus on.
So when you talked about, you know, really trying to focus your skill development and improvement on the specific job that you're going for. It's, it's very consistent with, with what, I talked to, I talked to Archie about. So I also wanna ask you to elaborate a little bit, because you had mentioned the importance of education and being a lifelong learner and the learning and development piece of it.
So what advice do you have for people as it relates to, you know, personal development and professional development? And and what what resources should they be looking at? Those books, podcasts, what what do you feel is most important? Yeah. Everything. I mean, certainly, I think the best experience is by doing. So if there are opportunities at your company to, you know, take on additional projects or additional roles, you know, that's great.
Or maybe working with one of these agencies that we talked about, that that might have a working group or or something where you can get some experience. But whether it's through through books, through podcasts, it really depends on, how somebody likes to learn and what gets them to be motivated and to retain information. So for me, I like podcasts. You know, I walk my dog. I like to listen to things. If I'm driving as well, some people, you know, are more visual.
They want to to read or they they want to sort of view a webinar. So I think it depends on that. Is it sort of a combination of the the channel and the mode along with what the topic is? But, and and going with what brought to mind when you're talking about the the Archie Stone podcast is, I had a a manager who I who I looked to as a mentor even though we didn't have an official mentor mentee relationship.
But a manager at one point who I, at the time, was a MSL manager and was brought into a company to to hire and build an MSL team, which I did and I was managing that team. And she offered me the position, of moving into a medical director role, which was a great opportunity. But when I was provided the offer, it had the nice title, but I didn't feel that the salary reflected that. So it was maybe a very small bump from what I was currently making, and I also, was no longer field based.
So I needed to be in the office more. I was giving up my car. So when I did the math, it didn't seem to make sense at all financially. And I went back and forth with her about this. And she said, Chad, trust me. You know, right now, sure, it may not be the, same package that you currently have, but you're gaining this experience. You're gonna be doing this and this and this. It's gonna set you up for the future.
And so I think about that conversation and her mentorship quite often, because it did work out and it was the right thing to do. But at that time in my life, I was focused on the title, on the salary, on the package, and it didn't make sense if if it was not sort of this, increase, in each step that I was making. So I think people also need to be, you know, very very open and flexible like we've already talked about.
But as you're developing your your skill sets and that personal development, I think it's fine to, you know, go down one path to say, okay, this is what I think I want to do. This is what I thought made sense, but it's not a good fit. I don't enjoy this. I don't enjoy maybe managing people or being a leader and having that responsibility or having all of this administrative work that I didn't have before. And it's fine to say, okay, I'm gonna let that go now.
This was a worthy effort, and it was worth my investment to figure it out. But that's not the place I wanna be. And now I'm gonna focus my effort, somewhere else. It's I'll tell you, it's so amazing. That's incredible advice that sometimes you have to take a sidestep in your career in order to take a step forward. And it's funny because I had, I did an episode with Stephanie Fish.
Who's also at Beijing. And I think it was called career lattice, which means career lattice means it's not just a ladder. You're not just climbing up a ladder. And she tells her story of how she took some size sidesteps and even some steps back because it was right for her at different times in her life. But for you, the career progression piece, isn't always just climb, climb, climb, climb, climb.
Sometimes you gotta take that side step to learn and develop and grow and get a new skill set, which now makes you more qualified for what's next. Yep. Exactly. And it's all about enjoying what you do. I mean, if you're happy with your with your role, you're gonna be a, stronger contributor. When I look back on on being laid off and and this sort of very dark time in my life and the fear and the pressure I put on myself and the self doubt and questioning everything I had done up to that point.
Now I can look back on that and be so thankful because it brought me to Beijing and to this role and to this team that I love and that I'm inspired by every day. And it makes me, you know, want to do more and contribute more and to learn more. So, so yeah, I mean, and things, you know, hopefully, you know, do work out. But it may not be, you know, what you planned for yourself, what your vision is.
And so that that flexibility is is critical, as as well as having, you know, grace with yourself if things don't work out the way you you thought they they might have or you think they should have. Awesome. Such incredible advice. Chad, you're the man. I appreciate you. I appreciate BeiGene. And I gotta give a shout out to Paul Ward because he he he seems to pull these people together for me and introduce me to new people and such a good friend of the of the show.
But, Chad, I I am grateful for, being able to have this conversation with you and for our friendship, and I wish you all the best. Thank you for coming on. You were amazing. Yeah. Thank you so much. I've enjoyed it. Awesome. Okay, guys. And thank you for all your support. We'll see you next time. Appreciate you. Anytime you get value out of this, please share it with others. This is one of the fastest growing podcasts in the pharma industry, and it's all because of you guys.
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