Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. I have a very special guest, Trish Gorecki. Trish and I actually met at a couple of different conferences over the course of, like, the past two years. So this is one of those situations where we kinda had this idea of doing something we weren't sure, and then just an amazing topic had come up, that I think a lot of you guys are gonna love.
And we're gonna talk about how it can be lonely in the field as an MSL, and Trish is the perfect person to talk about this. Before we get into that, I just want to introduce our sponsor for today. So this episode is actually brought to us by Fierce Pharma Engage. It's that time to sign up for what used to be Mass West is now Fierce Pharma Engage. It's in San Diego, April 29 to May 1. It's a premier event that brings together cross functional teams from marketing, PR, and communications.
There's a medical affairs segment and then business development and licensing. So this is a different event. It's like one powerful umbrella from Fierce Pharma and Fierce Biotech, to combine all of these different areas so that it's a comprehensive look at strategies to unify scientific messaging across cross functional collaboration. And then medical affairs sits with inside of it. So this should be awesome. For more information, just type in fierce Pharma Engage twenty twenty five.
You can get more details, and I hope to see you there. I will definitely be there as well. So, Trish, let's well, first of all, welcome, Trish. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Such a pleasure, honestly. I love the little intro you gave because it's true. We literally met at a couple of meetings, had a little bit of a chat, and thought this could be, like, a really cool topic that might resonate with a lot of listeners. Oh, definitely.
And, and you're the perfect person to talk about this because you were an MSL, and then you've played a number of different roles within medical affairs. But, like, take me back. What did you love about being an MSL? Let's start with let's start with the fun stuff, the good stuff. What I really loved was being that outside, person, the the collision facing person at the end of the day. I think I really, personally, I really love engaging with people as you might have noticed.
And I I just love being there sitting next to some brilliant KOLs. Honestly, some of these minds are just phenomenal, and you just sit there and have conversations that really matter. So and these are, I think, the moments when I think all of us can relate to when you have these interactions. That's when you're like, oh, yeah. I had a really good job, and I really made a difference. So everything to do with KOLs and seeing how you can drive a difference, that was probably my favorite part.
Yep. Yep. Yeah. And I I, you know, I hear that a lot. I I have said this many times. I think the MSL job is one of the best jobs in the world, but it does not come without a certain level of frustration. Just like any job, really. So when you think back, what were some of the things that were frustrating to you as an MSL? I think you know what? I'm one of the things was actually getting to those moments that I just described.
So being able to sit next to that clinician or nurse specialist or whoever it might be. Because I think especially when you're maybe new and there are there are different situations, but let's say you're actually building a new MSL team and maybe it's a therapy area that the company hasn't really worked in before, you need to first establish those connections. It's great when you know the people, when someone can introduce you to the people, and then it's relatively easy.
Not saying it is, but relatively easy to potentially get that appointment. But when you're new and you need to actually write these emails and maybe people don't get back to you. You think, oh, how can I actually make an impact? How can I change something? Because I truly feel that, actually, a lot of times, you need to give it a shot, and then you see what the value is. Right? We often said different, medicines. You say, okay.
Just just try it on one patient, especially when you know that it's really, really good meaningful new option for patients. You just say to these clinicians, just give it give it a shot. See how it works on one patient. And sometimes they get back to you and you say, oh, it's it was really amazing. Thank you for making me try this. Now I know how I can how I can use this drug. And it's sometimes the same with an MSL. Right? People sometimes just think, oh, this this company person contacts me.
I'm not quite sure what they want from me. Maybe they still see you as a sales rep. They don't really understand the difference. And then you just think to yourself, just give me a shot. Just let me sit next to you, have that conversation with you so that I can show you how I can help. Right? So it's this kind of, you know you can make a difference, but having that opportunity to show people that. And then so in I I wanna stay on this for a second.
In that scenario, what would you advise people do? Do they seek out a mentor? Do they go to their supervisor? Do they ask a teammate? What would you advise somebody do in that type of situation? I so first of all, I think a couple of maybe different options. So one thing is just because someone doesn't get back to you, don't give up. Like, you know Right. It's basically They don't hate you. Exactly. They don't hate you. They just don't know you.
Maybe they're just super hyper skeptical of of industry, and they don't want anything to do with it. Don't take it personally. Right? If they don't want, there'll be someone else who would glad who will gladly meet with you. So Mhmm. You know, just finding the right people. You know? It's just like finding your crowd that you can actually work with and connect with. So maybe that's one thing. Don't give up.
The other thing is maybe do speak to, you know, whether it's your line manager, whether it's your team, whether it's even, like, your sales colleagues that maybe work in the same territory. Because sometimes they know people who know people, especially when it's one of these people that you or k o l's that you really feel you need to meet because they're this big voice in in the space that you're working in. Try to make it happen somehow. Right? Don't just wait for the email to come back to you.
Maybe through people or through going to a conference, you have that opportunity to just go and introduce yourself in person. Right? So try and find ways to how you could still make that connection if if you feel it's so desperately needed. Mhmm. And because you've mentioned mentoring, I actually really like that because maybe not just in that scenario, but I think mentoring, irrespective of what you do, is super useful. Right? You you always get this different perspective.
You might feel a little bit stuck in the role that you're doing or in the situation that you're currently in. And that that mentor can just give you that, hey. Have you looked at it this way? Or have you thought about it a different way? Or why don't you approach it this way?
So I think even in those situations where you feel you might get stuck, there's nothing wrong of reaching out to a mentor because maybe I mean, it sounds maybe super simple, but maybe there's something you could write in that in that email introduction that might be just a little bit different. We can maybe, you know, create that hook that, you know, when someone reads it, so when the clinician reads it, they'll be like, actually, this sounds interesting. Maybe I will get back to that person.
So even in that situation, a mentor might be really useful. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, this just reminds you brings me back. So I was in in the field for ten years before I became a recruiter and a podcaster and the stuff I'm doing now.
And I just remember, like, you would get out of training or you'd get out of the POA, and you would it would you would feel so good because, like, there was all these rah rah moments, and you were all excited about the company, and you got energy from all of the leaders at the company.
And then you're out in the field, and then you get hit with, like, rejection, like we're talking about now, or you're having some struggles, or you're trying to get access, you're trying to get those meetings, and you kinda feel detached a little bit. You feel like you're on an island, sorta. And that's why, like, I this idea of, like, it's lonely in the field as an MSL, it's the same. Like, when you're field based or virtual, sometimes you just feel detached.
Can you talk a little bit about your experience with that? Absolutely. And, I I think there are days and days. We all had those days. I think sometimes it all comes together. Right? You you kind of trying to make connections. You try to meet new people. You try to do your job. You don't hear anything back, and then you feel a little bit detached because you don't sit in the in the office. You don't go in every day or every other day. You don't have those in person team meetings.
Yeah. You do feel a little bit like floating. Right? You're thinking like, what's what am I doing? Am I missing something? Am I doing the right thing? I think especially in the beginning, I sometimes had days like that. So I came from a clinical job being a clinician by background. And it was just yeah. Sometimes you felt, am I doing the right thing? Am I missing something? So I think we all had those days. So first of all, think it's normal. Don't over overthink it, over panic.
And maybe I think what I in hindsight, what I would also say is, as as if anything, it comes and goes in waves. Right? So you might have maybe a slow few days. Maybe you feel a bit like, you're not sure whether you're making that in difference, but then it'll come. You know? When you're doing the right thing, when you're putting the motivation in, you will get to that point where it'll pay off again. You know?
And it sounds gonna be easier than it sometimes feels, but I I I I'm I'm a true believer when you put the effort in and you think it through and you have the right strategy, I'm sure it'll look it'll come back to you in a in a good way. And yeah. Pretty much. Yeah. Now you're dealing with that. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Yeah. I May can I just say one thing as well? And I think what sometimes helped me as well was just to think, how does it actually connect.
You know, when you feel that you're on this island and you're not quite sure whether you're making impact, maybe just even ask that question. You know, I know that in an ideal practice setting, you are in the field. You know exactly what why you're doing what you're doing, and you know exactly how those insights that you're gathering connect to the strategy and how it then translates into tactics. You know? And I know that it's not always as easy as that.
But but some people, maybe they just need that additional motivation of, okay, how do I how does my piece of the puzzle fit into that bigger picture? Just just ask that question. Have that conversation with your line manager or with some head office colleagues and just say, hey, you know, we've been working on this and we got all these insights. Like, how are they driving actually what what what we want to do next year? You know?
So maybe it's also this actually seeing how what you do translates, and I think that will automatically then should give us a boost as well to continue what we're doing. Yeah. Yeah. No. I totally agree. And I like what you said about, you know, kinda give yourself a little bit of grace and give yourself a a little bit of a break. I had someone say to me one time, one of the greatest lessons I learned is that you you may not get two good days in a row when you're in the field.
You just might not because, like you said, it ebbs and flows. You're gonna have some good days and you're gonna have some bad days. You're gonna have some really exciting moments and then you're gonna have some moments of frustration or some moments where it's just not it didn't go as well as you had planned. We all have the same idea, like, every day is gonna be perfect, and it that that doesn't always happen.
And then the other thing I remember is it's important to have a really strong internal network. And I I befriended a lot of people that were more senior than I was so that when there were those days where I kinda felt like I was banging my head against the wall or I I reached some type of let's call it, a setback or a frustration, I had somebody that I could call and say, hey. How did you handle this? Or what advice do you have for me?
And it's gotta be the right person because there's a misery loves company kind of thing. If you contact the wrong people, they're just gonna bring you down. You don't want anybody draining your bucket. You want people filling it. So I stayed away from those people. You know what I mean? You know what I'm talking about? Totally. Oh, totally. It's like I didn't call you for you to make me feel worse. Right? I know. That's how I love it. I have to laugh because that is so true.
It just sometimes takes time to identify those people. Right. Yeah. And every once in a while, it's good to have a good bitch session, but, like, that's that's not gonna get you anywhere. You know? Yeah. %. When you think back, were there challenges or things that you weren't expecting? Maybe setbacks or challenges or things that you just weren't prepared for or maybe you just didn't didn't, you know, expect to happen? Good point.
Yes. I mean, I think in the beginning, especially when you when it's your first job in industry, everything's a little bit like an experience. Right? You you kind of you're trying to figure out how it all links up and and connects with one another. What I found sometimes, yeah, interesting and a little bit challenging is let's say, you know, your group of MSLs, you keep hearing the same feedback or insights. You know? You kinda feed these back to the head office team.
And then maybe sometimes months later, at some random meeting, someone from the head office team says, oh, you know what? Oh, I wish we had known about that. You know? And you just think to yourself, well, we've been telling you for months. So you sometimes feel like, do you actually listen to what we have to say? Like, we sit in the field and we're there for a reason. Just just trust us and our feedback. So sometimes it's just kind of like, have you have you paid attention?
I think another frustration sometimes was and, of course, everything depends on, like, business strategy and so on. I completely understand that. But when you're in a Masell and let's say you make this connection of a clinician, nurse specialist, whoever, health care professional, and they come to you with this great idea of a project. And you think, this is so amazing. It's meaningful. It fits with strategy. It it could really establish an amazing relationship for us.
And then there's this hesitancy on the inside. Right? You you kind of so passionate about this project, and you bring it to the people on the inside to evaluate. And then there's no you you don't get that excitement back that you were hoping for, and it's just a little bit like, oh, not sure whether we should do that, not sure whether we can change the budget to make sure this happens. And then you think, guys, but just just listen to the name.
Like, this is someone you want to work with, and they're coming to us with an idea. So you have these moments as well when you think, like, am I in the right movie? Yeah. And how how far do you take that? Like, obviously, you need to know your place. But if you feel really passionate about something and you wanna advocate for yourself, like, do you keep do you keep asking? Like, I'm curious.
To be honest, in my experience so far, when I gave the right rationale for the right project and gave, like, the whole story, I mean, no one really said no. Right? I mean, there might be initial hesitancy to say, oh, is this the right time? Not quite sure. And maybe the internal approval takes a little bit of time, but there will always be at least a couple of people that actually hear you and just then will support to see it through. You know?
So I thankfully, I haven't had a situation yet where there was something super passionate super amazing that I was passionate about what people just said. No. We really don't have the money for that. It it just always somehow happened. And maybe this is where, you know, when you're passionate and you know it's the right thing, for whatever reason, for patient reasons, whatever else, usually, you know, common sense prevails. Right? And Right. Then it works out.
Yeah. Let's talk about KOL access since it's it's such a big issue now. But got you know, going back, would you say is there a perceived notion that access is easier than it actually is? And can you recall when you got out in the field, were you like, wow. This is way harder than I thought. How what was your experience like? I fully agree. I mean, I think in the beginning, I didn't really, % know what I was getting myself into. I like the fact that it was this externally facing position Mhmm.
That kind of still connected me to my old clinical world in a way. So it felt like a little bit at home because you're talking with, with clinicians, etcetera. So that was nice, but I definitely didn't know what I was, you know, what I should be expecting, to be honest. And, absolutely, I think sometimes when people, you know, people say, oh, yeah. It's it's easy. You just write an email, and then you do your job. Like, it's it's quite a cushy thing.
I was told at one point as well from someone who's not in industry, you're like, no. Actually, it can be really tough. Like, it's not that easy. Just write an email, and here you go. Everything's amazing. So absolutely. And I think what I found interesting is sometimes it actually coincided a little bit with the life cycle of the product that you were in, I felt, as well.
So let's say you're working on a product that is, you know, either in prelaunch phase or just about launch phase, sometimes clinicians felt a little bit more open as well. Right? They were like, oh, this is this new thing. Yeah. I want to speak to someone with the company because maybe they can tell me all about that. You know? So it felt like an easier sell.
Mhmm. Whereas when it's a product that has been on the in the, you know, in the market for for a while, clinicians know about it, and maybe there are already newer kids on the block. They're a bit cooler. Right? Then I think it's sometimes a bit more difficult to get that traction and get that first move in and first first opportunity to meet that person. So I think it depended a little bit of that.
And the reason I say that is because when I started in immunology, we will work I was working on diff on two different drugs, and they were at different life cycles in different the therapy areas within immunology. So you could see that you could see and contrast between even different specialties. And I could tell you that, you know, this, you know, gastroenterologist, let's say, they were like, yeah. Cool. Definitely. Let's meet. I really wanna hear more about it.
And then maybe rheumatologists were like, oh, well, but hesitant to get back to you, you know, just as an example. So don't be surprised because I think there are all kinds of things that could influence clinicians as well to reply or not reply to you. Yeah. And it's like anything else. I I think that you you develop you get better at it as you go. And even in difficult markets like now, you you start to figure on you you figure out what works Yeah.
And you see you know, again, you look at examples from others, and there's, you know, internal trainings, and there's there's a lot of different ways or social listening. There's all these different other things available that can can help you with the knowledge that you might need about your KOLs. It might take a little bit longer, and it might take extra digging, and there might be a lot more research involved now.
But with AI and some of the other technologies, I think it's just a matter of, like, really having patience, and realizing that it's not an easy thing and that you're not the only one that's struggling with it, and then you'll get better at it. Absolutely. And you know what? There's one thing you mentioned about the insights and the AI. I truly feel that when you find that sweet spot of how you can add value, people won't reject you. Mhmm. Right?
So and I think it's knowing that person that you're writing to as well. So are they really into their research? Are they, like, super, you know, this big KOL? Or are they more, I don't know, super passionate about, patient access programs or something? So know what they want to talk about. Right?
Because when you, write that scientific KOL and email and you ask them about patient access, just making it up, you know, they might not get back to you because they think, well, it's nothing to like, I'm not interested in that. But I think with all the opportunities that we now have with the, social listening and and really understanding the KOL better or, like, you know, your KOL is better, you can tailor your message. And I think that's the thing. Right?
Don't just, like, copy paste and send the same thing to everyone. But just, like, tailor a little bit and make it a little bit more personal. And I think then as well that could be another way to kind of gain a bit of traction in the beginning. Yeah. And this and I think you'll notice too that you you start to stack wins. When you see that one thing works well, you start to do more of it, and then you just kinda stack the wins, and then you get a lot better at it.
So with time, you learn how to overcome some of those frustrations and and kind of predict or develop your own success and stack your own wins so that it's the frustrations are minimized. But let's let's talk about I don't wanna make this you know, this is about, you know, the overcoming the challenges of of being field based and being kinda lonely in the field. I don't wanna make it too gloomy and doomy, but a lot of this, I think, is helpful.
So let's talk about the, and this isn't about burnout per se this episode, but let's incorporate that word into the conversation. You know, a lot of times people are out there and there's there's, you know, there's the frustrations that we're talking about. Then there's travel, and there's there's a lot of, you know, extensive travel and travel issues.
And, so can you talk a little bit about what you've seen, not just from your own journey, but from other MSLs that may have have gone down a path of, like, man, I'm just getting burnt out doing this job. And what would you what advice would you give for those people? Great point. Great point. Because, at the end of the day, there's always more than we could do. Right? So you put a lot of pressure on yourself. You want to make it perfect. So very easy to to go down that route, really.
So what what helped me a little I think it's sometimes going back to what I said with giving yourself a break Mhmm. Literally meaning that. You know, sometimes, you know, what makes sense is, I guess, you know, when you know you're going to city a for on a on a Wednesday and you're staying Thursday, a, maybe try and see whether you can combine your travel. Maybe there's, like, an they bring in the first tee and you know someone there already.
So rather than traveling back and forth I mean, this is maybe giving super simple a super simple example, but just try and, plan your trip. Like, any holiday that you really really do and you want to kind of organize itself, do the same thing. Like, maybe there are a couple of other things or people you could meet while you're in in that one place.
But then so when I was in situations where I did stay overnight because I had, you know, a couple of meetings in the same region, I would just take the time to maybe, let's say, walk through the city center. So, you know, rather than jumping on a cab and going straight to the hotel and then working until midnight, I would say, you know what? I'll actually walk it.
I'll walk, then you can see the a little bit of this, you know, of the place that you've visited, and, maybe go and and rather than having just a takeout in a hotel, actually go sit down outside and just give yourself that mental break. Because I think it's super easy for you to feel like you're traveling and dependent whether you're let's say you're driving. You don't really feel that you do much. Right? Because you sit in the car and you might be driving for five hours or four hours, whatever.
But it feels like you haven't done your job. Mhmm. So it's super and get to point to to where you have to go and then just work for the rest of the evening. Right? Because you feel you actually haven't done anything today. But actually changing that mindset and thinking, no. Actually, driving four, five hours is part of my job. I don't need to necessarily make up for it and work until midnight. I can just say, okay. I'll do the emails.
I have to do a prep for the meeting the way I have to prep, but then give yourself that downtime that you would when you're in a head office role. You go home and maybe you cook dinner and spend time with your kids or with your dog so you have that downtime. So see it in the same way. Like, even when you're traveling and you're out somewhere else, give yourself that downtime. And that helped me a lot. Yeah. And I think back, it's like you get in a groove. Like, what's your groove?
Like, what's your routine? So if you have a four or five hour drive, how does that go? What are you bringing with you as far as snacks and drinks? And Yep. Is there a favorite coffee shop that you know is on the way that you could stop at that you can look forward to and say, okay. Halfway, I'm gonna stop at this coffee shop or at this deli or whatever and and kinda treat yourself and, you know, make it a little bit more of an adventure.
Like, is are there people that are there phone calls you can get out of the way? There always is. It's a four hour drive, five hour drive. Let's get some phone calls out out of the way. Maybe you wanna listen to a podcast. I know a really good podcast that you can listen to. So maybe maybe you line up a couple of of podcast episodes and say, I'm gonna catch up on some of this stuff. And it becomes, you know, more of, like, a, you know, professional development kind of situation.
So you gotta give yourself stuff to look forward to. I think that's what helped me. A %. I love that looking forward to something because totally and you know what? I fully agree. And also, just take it as it is. Because sometimes, let's say you're going somewhere and you're super prepared and you do all the things that you just suggested, listen to podcast, do everything.
Maybe on the way back when it's a Friday afternoon, you really don't feel like it, and you just want to listen to some music or listen to nothing. Yeah. And give yourself that break. Don't feel that now because I'm in the car, I have to do 20,000 things. Right? Maybe one day you're motivated and you really want to, and then maybe on another day you don't feel like it. So don't pressure yourself that you have to do 20,000 things. Yeah. So fun fact.
So when I do a solo podcast or if I have, a talk that I have to do or if I'm speaking somewhere, I turn I look forward to the times that I'm in the car and or working out, and I turn everything off. And I practice and I practice and I practice. And sometimes I practice out loud. Sometimes I practice in my own head depending on where I am. But that alone time and that unplugging on that drive or on that treadmill or whatever it is is so valuable.
And it's it really does help out because now you're so much more comfortable when it's time for you to go present because you've already visualized it and you've done it 20 times. I see. Yeah. And sometimes best ideas come when you actually give yourself that downtime. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.
So as we're talking about, like, podcast and and some of these these tips, like, are there any other resources that you can recommend, like, you know, books or things that people should be reading or filling their mind with? Sure. Of course, this podcast, right, has to be, like, number one. I don't wanna have to say it. I don't wanna have to say it. I think I mean, there are a number of things I would suggest, really. So on the one hand, we mentioned mentors earlier.
So think about maybe connecting with people regularly, you know, and and getting, like, that outside different perspective. So mentoring is, I think, a really valuable tool. Then depending on on what you crave as well, there are all these medical affairs societies, right, like MAPS and and other things.
I think sometimes that might be quite useful because, a, there are resources for field teams, but also, it gives you maybe a little bit more of an insight into, like, the, in house strategic planning or anything like that. So I I what I'm trying to say is maybe resources that don't just solely focus on how to be the best MSL, that's fantastic, of course. But then how does that link with the with the strategy and the the, you know, in house things that happen as well behind the scenes?
So maybe understanding that, especially when you're maybe a new MSL and you feel like, oh, how how does that fit in? How do I how can I make a difference? Actually, understanding a little bit how the strategic side of things work, and, you know, that that might that might be useful as well. And then, yeah, there are there are actually so many books. I mean, I love going to a bookstore, but sometimes I'm overwhelmed because there are all these options.
But I had a really great recommendation from, actually, one of my mentors, and he suggested a book, called Rebel Ideas by Matthew Syed. Mhmm. And that really talks about diverse thinking and diverse perspectives. And that's something that really resonated. Right? Because a lot of times people say, oh, you know, I resonate with someone. We kind of have we're thinking the same way. We're thinking alike.
So it's easy to partner, but actually that challenges you to say, well, maybe you actually need these people that think differently so that you get a different perspective. And maybe that's actually a better team that you can inform because you get different perspectives and you don't just looking at it at well, from one direction. Right? So, that book talks a little bit about that. So that was a really great recommendation.
I I think that it's such a good time now versus when when at least when I was out in the field. I mean, I'm I'm a hundred years old. So, like, you're going back a long time for when I was out in the field, but now there's, like, you know, they didn't have podcasts back then. They had, like, books on tape or, like, you know, but now there's there's obviously, there there's podcast, there's social media, there's x, there's LinkedIn, there's masterminds and coaching programs.
And like you said, like, MAPS is coming up in in February. MAPS is just such a great organization. It just like, I think being out in the field, you wanna be you wanna feel empowered, and you wanna feel like there are resources available to you, but you have to take the ownership of that personal and professional development. That has to that rely that has to come from you. Your company is gonna provide training, but you have to take responsibility.
One of the so we have a coaching and training program called through MSL mastery. We have a cohort for new MSLs called RISE. And I mentioned it because the peep the newer MSLs that are in RISE, they get to see what others are experiencing and learn from others and get coached by experts at the same time. It's empowering. It's resourceful. It just brings people to a whole another level. That's why we call the program RISE. So and I'm not saying everybody has to join RISE if you're a new MSL.
What I'm saying is there there's free programs out there. There's there's all sorts of resources, but you have to be the person that takes control of your professional development. You can't wait for somebody else to do it. A %. Fully agree. And like you say, I think maybe sometimes these days, there's so many options. So you wonder where do I start? But at the same time, no excuse. Absolutely.
Like, there's you know, it's in your hands to really understand something that maybe you don't feel that comfortable with. Right? It might be maybe you don't quite understand, I don't know, something about the business planning aspect. Well, go and read about it or ask someone from the MAPS team or ask your mentor. Right? Or how you can develop when it also comes to career opportunities, etcetera. There's all these resources.
So just take the time and find what what you're looking for to kind of, yeah Yeah. Help you. Absolutely. So what final piece of advice, what would you tell MSLs or even aspiring MSLs, people that are that are hoping to get into the MSL role, let's say, this year. What advice would you have in general for those folks? Enjoy it. I mean, it's it's really it's an amazing, job opportunities. It's an amazing role.
You meet so many truly fascinating people that really are so passionate about making, an impact and difference, in patients' lives that really love it. They're just like, you know, health care professionals by heart, and it's just so aspiring and, amazing to to meet these people. So it's a genuinely, genuinely fun job, so enjoy it. Enjoy that you're actually that person that gets to meet all these people, because there are other roles within industry that do not get to trouble.
And I had actually even a conversation recently with someone from our compliance team, and she was like, oh, yeah. Actually, I wish I could travel a little bit more. And because even for them, you know, they sometimes say we could actually see how things come together when we kind of advise on things. So there are people that maybe I don't wanna say envy, but maybe, could be a little bit envious because they just sit in an office and don't go anywhere as such.
You actually have the luxury that you can sometimes travel. And like we said before, explore new places, give yourself a little break, see where you're going, meeting new places. So it's a very it's a very, fulfilling, varied job, and I think that is really that's I would just say enjoy. And at the same time, don't be fooled to think that you just because we're now in a virtual world, that you just sit there, write emails, and that's it. So it's not something that you're not an admin. Right?
So if you were looking for an admin job, it's not it's not the right thing to do. Great advice. Awesome. Best job in the world. Best job in the world. Yeah. Trish, you're the best. Thank you so much. Too. Let's I'm I'm so glad that we had a chance to do this. Let's keep in touch. Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a real pleasure. Thank you. Awesome. And thank you guys for watching and listening and sharing this show. Appreciate you all. Love you guys.
And, I'll see you on the next episode.