Hi everyone, thanks for joining me. My guest today is Paul Ward, national director of oncology MSLs at AstraZeneca, an MSL Society advisory board member. And we've discussed how COVID nineteen will affect the role of the MSL and what new skills may emerge as necessary to maintain value, access, and future success. I think you're gonna love it. Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Paul. Thanks for joining us today.
How you doing? Good, Tom. Pleasure to be here. Thank you for the invite. I am so excited. Why don't let's just start real quick. Why don't you, real quick do an introduction, let everybody know what you're up to these days? Happy to. Yeah. So, my name is Paul Ward. I'm the national director of our oncology medical science liaison team at AstraZeneca. Tom, as you know, that's a team of around 73 MSLs and 8 regional directors. We're, across 4 different oncology franchises.
So it's it's one of the, bigger teams in industry. And I've been, at AstraZeneca for, about 11 years with a a break in between. So I was there for about, 10 years and then left, did some other things with an industry leading teams, and then was recruited back. And I'm very happy to be back at AstraZeneca for the last 2, two and a half years now. Awesome.
Yeah. And and in addition to my AZ responsibilities, which are, you know, you you you know we're all very busy people, but, recently was asked by Samuel Dyer to join the MSL Society as an advisory board member.
And as you may know, last week, we had a podcast that Ralph Roers and myself and one of his sponsors, participated in, talking and and going through the results of an MSL survey that, took it really had some nice data post COVID 19 during the pandemic year on how MSLs and how industry was reacting to that. So I think our timing for this discussion is actually pretty good. Oh, and I'm so excited, and I couldn't wait for you to join us. This is such an important topic.
And, I did actually listen to the podcast. It was some great info. So, let's jump into it. I mean, obviously, we're in the middle of this crazy pandemic and, the world as we know it has completely changed. What are you seeing at AZ, and what are your MSL seeing right now? Well, you know, we're we're all seeing various sides of this. One is just a very human side. I think we have to start the podcast just by recognizing for all of us.
You know, not only do we have responsibilities within the company, which are real, but we're also doing things at home very differently. And so we're I'm I'm trying to balance leading the team, with empathy. In fact, I'll just share, Tom. I haven't had the chance to tell you, but, a guy that I went to high school with, played baseball with, lost his father on Tuesday to COVID 19, just after a very short period of time in the hospital.
And then I just got a call last night that his mother too now has passed away from COVID 19. So these are the things that I think as leaders and and and in your role, we all just have to be very mindful that this is this pandemic is real, and we have to balance things out, both as, you know, husbands and fathers and sons and brothers, sister, but as employees. Right? So, the the empathetic part needs to, needs to come out for all of us.
So in addition to, you know, that kind of work, you know, we're we're just like like every company trying to understand what's working, what's not working, how how should we engage, what's what's what's working with the receptivity, of our HCPs, what's not working. Just trying to find that balance of providing value, and our medications in lots of cases help, solve solutions. What's the right balance between having those conversations? I think we're all wrestling with that throughout industry.
Yeah. Yeah. It's such a tough time, and I appreciate your approach, Paul, and and you've always been, you know, one of the best leaders out there and you have a huge team and you're so, you know, you're so incredibly well respected. And I'm sure, you know, everybody's looking to you and I'm sure you're you're guiding them along the way that they need to go. And I know, one of the difficult things is, you know, access.
I mean, you know, how do you navigate your job as an MSO with such limited access with travel restriction and travel bans? How do you do your job? And I'm curious, so what are you telling your MSLs? What are your MSLs actually doing right now, you know, in this time when there's such limited access? Yeah. Well, it's a great question, Tom, and thank you for your kind words. I think I think the first thing we just have to recognize is the whole model's been kinda turned on its ear.
So as of about the, 2nd week in March, we've been, as is most industry, in a virtual environment. No no one's meeting face to face unless it's absolutely critical. In fact, I think at AstraZeneca, we've had, just a handful of those, face to face interactions. So everyone has now pivoted to the virtual, ways of engaging. And so from the very start, we were giving our MSLs guidance, to lead with empathy.
And I know Ralph used that very same word for the AbbVie team on the podcast last week is that you have to be empathetic, in this case, not just for your family, but what is the HCP on the other end of the interaction going through, knowing they've got the same responsibilities that we do. But in some cases, particularly in some regions that are that were affected early, you know, they're on they're doing double duty.
Maybe in the ICU where they're on a p and t committee where they're they're looking at COVID 19 solutions and reviewing, medications or different schedules of drugs to try to keep patients out of clinic, particularly in oncology. That's been a big part of, what the oncologists are trying to do is limit visits to the hospital, but continuing needed therapies for these patients that, you know, that are stricken with with with cancer. So, you know, that's that's really been the balance.
So in terms of access, you know, we've and and and it is very consistent in my experience with what came out in the podcast last week. We've maintained interaction with about 50% of our scientific targeting plan or the list of people we call on routinely. And I say that with a high degree of pride. I think it really points to the MSLs, the value that they bring, and the relationships that they have, to that people look to them for, you know, for answers.
It's been a little limited by some of the additional responsibilities of our HCPs. But I think, yeah, that's that's really the bottom line is we're we're really maintaining close contact with about 50% of our team at AZ and that bore were out on the survey too that, Samuel and the, MSL Society showed last week. Yeah. Well, I mean, that is encouraging because, obviously, you know, it's not like, you know, your MSLs are totally disengaged. You know?
There's you know, 50% is you know, right now, maybe that number changes as people start to accept the, the role of of virtual engagement, number 1. And number 2, the numbers are going to change. And I think that that's going to, you know, increase access. But, you know, getting back to, I guess, the empathy and, you know, like, what's the approach? So so give me an idea of, how your MSLs are being successful in approaching their HCPs to be able to get those interactions.
Yeah. You know, it's it's it's, it's interesting. I think that we we do see that there are successful MSLs in this virtual arena, and there are those that are struggling a little bit, and that's not overly surprising. I think it's it's difficult for a brand new MSL without relationships to establish a relationship, in a virtual environment. Right? And then just thinking back and again, I'll just put a pin in the, survey results that, the MSL Society did.
That was the middle of March to the end of March. So that was relatively early in the pandemic. Right? And so I think a couple of things happened. One is every one of us, all of us went virtual at exactly the same time, and we're reaching out via Viva Engage or whatever, a QVIA tool or CRM tool, Zoom, Webex, whatever platform is preferred at the company that you work for. And I think we inundated and kind of flooded the inboxes of our HCPs.
That that's a regret that I have that that couldn't have been handled better, and I'm as guilty as, anyone else about, just thinking of in a in a bit of a silo about my company and that how are we doing this as an industry. So I think that the ones that are successful, a, they have existing relationships. That certainly helps. But, b, I think, you know, asking questions. And part of empathy is understanding these, HCPs and where they are and what they're facing.
So I think the ones that have really done well begin their conversation with, hey. You know what? I'm reaching out to you. I know you're busy. I know you've got a lot on your plate. But, you know, in some cases, you know, we I I might have some solutions to some of the problems that you're facing. Let's just talk about what those problems might be, and and how can we work together. And then I think companies, AstraZeneca is not alone.
I'm very proud of the response of pharma donating, you know, personal protection equipment, masks and gowns to the American Red Cross. AstraZeneca has certainly done that in a in a major way, and I've read of other companies. And so I think too when when I talk, and I've been on a few of these calls too, it's also about letting the HCP know what we're doing as a company at a level above where the MSL is operating. Right? I think that's important to have a broader perspective than, hey.
It's just me and you talking. But let me tell you some of the things that we're doing, to help combat this. AstraZeneca is not the only company. You know, you look at Gilead, you look at GSK, you look at Lilly. Lots of these big companies are developing either vaccines, you know, towards the towards the coronavirus or even some downstream solutions for cytokine storm and protecting some of the patients within the ICU.
I think all of these are very interesting conversation starters, and and leading with empathy includes letting the HCP know what the companies are doing, at a broader level. Those are the people that have have success rather than people that just call and begin apologizing profusely for the interruption. That doesn't really lead to productive conversation. Yeah. That's great advice. That and those are great tips, Paul. And, and you're right.
It's and I think we're all overwhelmed by the amount of, or the the the way that everyone collectively is pulling together in this crisis. And thankfully, it's there's such a unification. And and so I mean, getting back, so it sounds like, you know, everyone's making an effort to get these virtual engagements and if, you know, so let's just say the number is, you know, around 50% are receptive.
What what kind of time are they allocating and and what is it, you know, what's the end result as far as, are they real limited interactions or are they getting less time, more time? I'm just curious as to, how the the FaceTime and and the availability is working. It's a great question, Tom, and you sound like my executive leadership team just said, alright. Now you told me how many you've had. Tell me about the quality of the interaction. Right?
And so, I'm certainly not the only leader being asked this. And I think one of the great differentiators of MSLs is how much time we spend in front of the, investigator or HCP, whatever you're you you know, we'd like to call them. I prefer health care providers because they're all important. So let me let me just baseline some of my personal observation and then also what we know from some survey work that's been done.
You know, the average interaction for an MSL usually lasts between 30 45 minutes. That's a pretty good amount of time, particularly opposite other roles in pharma. We we do get time with these folks because of the value that we bring and the solutions that we provide as an MSL team. And so with that as a baseline and, again, that's that's just in the middle. There's some that last longer. There's some that are shorter.
We've actually seen a bit of a decrease in the amount of time that we've spent. Right? So I think, when you look at the survey again from the MSL Society, which is over 4 100 almost 400 respondents to the survey, we saw that about 46% of the interactions that MSLs are having are lasting between 16 30 minutes. So that's a little bit less than we would expect, but we still have almost 12% that are between 31 and 45 minutes.
So I think a couple things here, if I can anticipate your next question, which is what's driving that. One is, you know, virtual interaction, some of them are just check ins, right, with empathy and say, how are you doing? I'd like to talk to you. Let's let's let's have a chat. That probably leads to a longer conversation, down the road. So I think there's some check ins and about 25% or so of the interactions are lasting between 5 15 minutes.
And I think those are just checking on your your, you know, your your your colleagues in in the field and, the HCPs and and and getting a baseline of where they're at and how they wanna interact with you. So there's a fair amount of that. But I also think when you're virtual, you know what? You usually when you sit down with an MSL, the HCP says, hey. Where'd you stay last night? And where'd you eat dinner?
And, you know, I think a lot of that chitchat has, has gone away just because it's virtual and people really just kinda wanna get right into it and and and the questions are different. And I do think that people are just being a little bit more mindful of people's time in the in the pandemic. So it's it's not a terrible story. I actually think it's it's quite a good one that the majority approaching the majority of the of the of the interactions are still in that, 30 minute, time frame point.
But, you know, to answer your question succinctly, it is down a little bit. But I I think I've explained a little bit as to what that rationale for why a little less time in these interactions may be occurring. Yeah. But I'll tell you that's that's great info. And hats off to, Samuel Dyer and the MSL Society for that survey. It was really well done. Great info, and I enjoyed listening to the webinar or podcast with you guys. So thank you for sharing that. But I think it's encouraging too.
I I think that there's a lot of there's a lot of optimism that we can take from this. And looking at virtual engagements, do you think that, that they're here to stay in the sense that I know that everyone wants to get back to FaceTime and and on sites and and face to face interaction. But do you think that there's now going to be a place for this? I think almost an certainly that answer is yes. I think it's just a matter of degree. Right? And so let me explain what I mean by that, Tom.
I think there are a lot of factors within our control. In other words, I think pharma is going to, look at these virtual interactions. In some cases, the pandemic has provided a catalyst for change for our industry. Right? I think people have been talking about digital. Pharma has not really been on the on on the cutting edge of virtual, digital, in terms of the way that we interact with customers in in in general. Right?
We've we've kind of more traditional, a little slower to adopt some of these, principles that other other industries have gone to much quicker. So I do think that the virtual interactions will be a tool in the toolkit of the MSLs moving forward. Okay? Now I don't expect that that's going to be the primary or preferred in many cases, method of interaction.
I think the value of, the MSL is the relationship, and the relationships, get great, greatly enhanced by face to face interactions and, and the rest of that. So right now, virtual is what we've got. I do think it will continue. I do think pharma will and and and biotech and device too for that matter, we'll we'll figure out that this is one way to engage, that we won't throw out when, when when times return to more normalcy.
But I think that that it's, it's going to be, something that we continue to offer as an advantage. You know, back to the survey, we learned 20% of the HCPs that were, the MSLs rated 20% of their HCPs to very, open and receptive, to virtual interactions. That's 20% right off the bat. Now I think as these HCPs through the pandemic, they've also changed the way that they interact with their patients. Telemedicine is on the increase by a huge amount regardless of specialty, Video conferencing.
So the way that they're interacting with their patients is almost certainly, going to change. And I think the HCPs may look at this as an efficient way, for them to interact with MSLs as well. So I think both, both parties are gonna be receptive to some change here for the future of, a virtual. But by no means is this going to be, the only way that we're going to be, interacting. And in no way am I in conversations with my leadership about this being a standard for MSLs.
It's just it's just, again, it's a, a catalyst for change and a new way of of interacting. We'll see how much it stays. Yeah. Yeah. I'm in I'm in agreement. I'm totally in agreement. You know, I carried a bag for 10 years and and, was in and out of doctor's offices and, you know, so I'm an old school kinda guy, but, you know, you hear the term new normal. Yeah. That keeps getting thrown around. You know, what does that mean?
And I and I I I think what it means is that to your point, this is an additional tool in the toolbox. This is something else that's going to be used quite often, but but certainly not a replacement. We see the same thing with interviews. The same exact situation. Interviews are now virtual. Anybody that's still hiring is is using virtual interviews as their main form of interaction.
There's no other choice, which is interesting because people are getting hired and accepting positions without ever having met their manager and vice versa. Right. But that's that's not ideal and that's not the way companies want to do business. I think that there is an argument that the virtual or video interview may eventually replace the phone interview to an extent only because it provides a whole another element to the interaction.
And, you know, there's no saying, you know, what's going to happen, but I think that these are obviously, you know, interesting points of discussion. Where are we going and and how far can we take this? So, you know, we're developing this new skill. We're all developing this skill of virtual engagement, virtual interaction, video interviews, video conferencing. So I wanna talk about that a little bit.
I wanna talk about, you know, what skills are now mandatory for MSLs to be successful during the crisis, and I wanna talk about what skills are gonna be mandatory after the crisis. So recently, I had a podcast with Vanessa Jacobson and she presented, the top twelve attributes of a great MSL, and I'll list some of them.
Scientific acumen, communication skills, obviously, the ability to collaborate and be collaborative, you know, credibility, territory knowledge, the art of asking questions, time management, dealing with ambiguity and change, which obviously is where we are right now. Right? Mhmm. Preparation, anticipating questions, follow-up, and high emotional intelligence. What do you think, Paul, are some of the most important skills now and for the future for MSLs?
Yeah. Well, first, I'd like to recognize Vanessa. I I listened to that podcast. I thought she was excellent and completely, agreed with her 12 attributes, so I was in good agreement with you, there, Vanessa. She did a very nice job. I think all of those are still in play. Right? Because, the world has changed, but it hasn't changed that much that those are, are are are now no no longer needed. I think when I look back, I think a couple things. The high EQ is huge for me. Right?
I I think you have to have emotional intelligence. And I think that those that realize that this pandemic is about opportunity, that's not happening to us, but these are ways that we have to adapt and be flexible. So there's another word I'll throw out there, flexibility.
And then what Vanessa said about art of asking questions, I think in this pandemic has I put a real premium on that skill too because you have to know where to start because it's been so disruptive to to the health care industry and to the way that physicians are taking care of patients. What you knew in February about the clinic and treating patterns may no longer hold true in March April May as we as we continue.
And by that, I mean, even approved doses of drugs have changed, and and there's been different guidance from FDA and from from Medicare on lessening the restrictions on how drugs get used and emergency approvals. If we're not asking a lot of questions about how this is impacting patient care, I think as an MSL, you're missing a real, opportunity.
So I think too, I I I would be remiss if I didn't bring up I think there's a premium on digital skills too and in being able to adapt to virtual understanding the tools of of your trade here with the the Veeva Engage or whatever the CRM tool may be. And then I think at the end of the day, it's if if you've got those skills, the other the other skill that I'll put a premium on right now is confidence.
I mean, you have to you really, as an MSO, have to have confidence that, sure, it's an uncomfortable time and, sure, people's time is precious, in in clinic, but you have to have confidence in you and yourself and what you know and what you bring to the table, that in some cases, as I said earlier, Tom, that we we bring solutions to the table. Yeah. And and and we are a needed resource for these folks at this time of crisis, not a distraction to their clinic.
We should be able to look for ways we're enhancing patient care. So I think all those things sort of come to mind in addition to, the previous podcast that you and Vanessa did. Yeah. No. Those are great. Those are really great. And, you know, so you mentioned you you mentioned HCPs a lot, and and that's what this is all about, obviously. Well, it's, you know, it's all about the patient always. But That's right. You know That's right.
It, but in in respect to the HCPs, what do you think their expectations are both now and moving forward from from their MSLs? Yeah. You know, we all we all hear the same things from our MSLs and and from the HCPs. It's like bring me relevant information. Bring me information that makes me better. Bring me bring me ideas and solutions from your company that improve the way that I can take care of patients. Right? And so, I don't think that's changed.
I think that's the holy grail of what MSLs do and and and what we bring. You know, and and the other thing, Tom, here in terms of expectations, you know, I I'm in oncology, as I mentioned, ASCO was at the end of this month. And these meetings are occurring, but they're happening in a virtual world. And, you know, I'm I'm not smart enough or have enough information to, to determine what the success and how well we're communicating information and and and the latest changes in data to our HCPs.
I think the other expectations, be you in cardiovascular or respiratory or oncology or diabetes, whatever your specialty is, there's still data. Right? There's still practice changing information that needs to be conveyed. And the normal ways that they're getting that at society meetings and and and those organizational meetings aren't occurring at the way that they have in the past. So I think all of these are opportunities. So I think those are the expectations.
Bring me relevant information, and and as always, and Vanessa touched on this too, understand my world as an HCP and what I face so that you can bring solutions. I think those expectations don't go away, but the data piece, I think, the heightened, awareness and a heightened need for us to communicate latest data because the normal chains and channels are, have changed so much. Yeah. No. Agreed. Absolutely. No. That's great points.
And, you know, looking at expectations, you know, we talk about expectations for the HCPs. So now, what about expectations for the MSLs as it relates to metrics and performance? Mhmm. You know, let's look at that for a second because, obviously, you start the year off and everybody has their goals, everybody has their numbers, and everybody does it differently. Quantitative metrics, qualitative metrics, whatever whatever the system might be. What happens now?
You know, how do these MSLs hit their numbers and what are the expectations from companies or, you know, in your opinion? Yeah. So I think, you know, the model has changed. We've got loads of data, years years of data, regardless what company you're in on average number of annual interactions that your MSLs have. Right? And so you can plot at each company as different quantitative and qualitative metrics. Right? And so let's just talk about the quantitative ones first.
You know, again, with a baseline of what happened years years ago, we know what a normal, cadence of of calls would be. And as I said earlier, we're at about half of that. So what I'm doing, and I think that as I talk to other leaders of MSL teams, we're usually just using our own teams now as the benchmark rather than historical data.
So if you do if you do just some easy math and look at maybe, 6 or 7 interactions a week in the in the pre COVID reality was what we were expecting, we're we're down to about half of that. And and and so now it's 2 to 3 or maybe 3 to 4 because our numbers are trickling back up a little bit as time goes on. But, you know, there's an expectation that we perform. I get I was asked almost immediately, what's what what are my metrics?
And I was very candid with people, Tom, to say, I don't have enough data to give you a metric. But what I can plot is how you're doing opposite your peers. Right? And and so what I don't want in us I know I'll speak for every MSL manager out there. I don't want people out changing numb chasing numbers and and doing things just to tick the box. We really do need to to have the confidence that we bring solutions and have meaningful interactions. Right?
So, yeah, that that's that's kind of what we're doing is, you know, we're into week 5 or 6 depending upon where you are in the world, of this, and we're just plotting week on week what this looks like. And it's really not to metric and micromanage the MSL. As I kidded you earlier, I get a lot of questions from my executive leadership about what's working. Are people receptive? Who's even out there from a company standpoint talking to HCPs and customers at this point?
So it's all fits into a to a broader picture. I think one of the changes is, you know, there's always a premium on face to face. We certainly are counting virtual interactions. It's the new face to face interaction now. Meaningful telephone calls and emails. I still need a little convincing that you can have meaningful scientific exchange on email, but I've been convinced more than once that that's, actually has occurred. So all of that is is quantitative.
And and look, I know I know you're a baseball fan. I I look at these interactions, numbers, and it's just from a baseball standpoint. How many times did you get up to bat? Right? How many times did you go up? Now no one ever entered the hall of fame in baseball by may maybe with the exception of, you know, Lou Gehrig and and, Cal Ripken, the Ironman, about just being up to the plate a lot. Right? Unless you broke the record, that's not it. It's how productive were you.
And now we're getting into the qualitative portion of the, of the metrics. So what outcomes came from your discussion? What solutions were you have you identified? So those are more like the singles and the doubles or the hit by pitch or even if you strike out, you make the pitcher throw 15 or 16 pitches and wear his arm out a little bit in the process. Right? A major league at bat as it were. Yeah. I I think all of that still plays in here.
We're we are having RDs selectively jump on some of these, virtual interactions. Again, just to see how things are going, be able to report in upwards and and into me and others about how they're going, how's the tool working. So all of that is is still in place.
So this this this this holy grail of what's the right metric, how do we measure the value, I don't think it's gotten any clearer in the in the pandemic, but we're still measuring it if for no other reason to evaluate what the future may look like for the MSL Organizations. Right? Yeah. And I'm listen. I'm sure all your counterparts and and and MSL leaders are you know, feel the same way. I mean, these are unprecedented times. And I apologize. I didn't mean to put you on the spot.
I I I, I wanted to talk about it because I think it's a real important topic. I think a lot of people are thinking that, but I I do know in conversations that I've had, everyone is is, you know, doing what they can to keep people motivated, making it fair. I don't think I don't this is not a time. Oh, well, hey. Listen. You know what? You know, rules are rules kinda thing. And I think everybody's, you know, evolving with with this situation.
And, you know, so we talked about expectations for, you know, for HCPs and MSLs. What about for patients? You know, how how does, you know, how does that change on the patient side? Yeah. Well, it's an interesting dynamic. You know, I think people previously looked at hospitals and clinics as a way to go for care and to get well. That's completely changed now, hasn't it? This is a place of illness and virus and places to be avoided at all cost. And you've heard stories, Tom, just like I have.
And back to my story about my my my friend's parents who died this week, they died alone. There were no family members at that institution, man. And so we we just have to be mindful of of, you know, what that looks like. So from a patient standpoint, I I do think that their expectations of how frequently that we ask them to do testing, maybe blood test or biomarker testing or, you know, any number of things. I think they're gonna be far more critical of their HCPs to say, hey.
Do I really need to go and do this, or is this something I can do every other month rather than once a month? Right? And so I think patients are looking at health care differently, and I think they're looking to avoid we've seen this across any number of reports about, you know, how people are just avoiding going to the doctor. Right?
And so I think patients are gonna be demanding more of us as an industry and of their physicians about what is really needed and appropriate medical care rather than some of the defensive measures that that that may be taking. And, you know, it's it's it's crazy because I mentioned biomarkers. I mean, there's in in oncology, there's no more effective treatment than treatment that is driven by a biomarker. Right? That you you've got this mutation.
We've got a drug that, that that, uniquely, acts on that mutation, so you get appropriate therapy. It's just hard. Right? And then I think the other conversations that I'm reading about and others too are about I think clinical trials are gonna be written differently.
I think they're going to be much more patient friendly, and I think we're gonna see IRBs maybe even rejecting trials because we usually have a patient advocate on the IRB, because it's too invasive or it's there there are other ways of measuring some of these parameters in the trial other than than, bringing people into the clinic. So I think patients are going to demand more of the and different things of the physician, which trickles down to, hey.
These are gonna be different conversations that the MSLs are in, which is why I put a premium on asking questions and flexibility because we need to uncover these things. Yeah. Oh, it's great. No. It's good info.
And and, I'll tell you, it's unprecedented times right now and it's everybody's, you think about the patient side and the collateral damage and the snowball effect and how one thing has a profound effect on another and and, you know, it's gonna be interesting to see where all this goes and how we come out of this and what we learned and how we evolve. So I think, you know, we've obviously covered a lot of ground today. You know, so last question.
Yeah. What, you know, obviously, when when we look at the MSO role, medical affairs is always in a position to, create value to the organization, to the HCPs. What advice do you have for MSLs out there, both right now and as we move out of this, to be able to continue to add value both internally and externally? Yeah. You know, I'm I'm big on this confidence thing. I brought it up a couple times. I think this is really we we we need to look for opportunities.
One of the things that this pandemic does is none of us have any more experience here than anybody else. You and I are, you know, you know, we're we're grizzly veterans in this business. But in terms of the pandemic, if you've been enrolled for a month, you've got as much experience as me and you and our 30 year MSLs that have been in the role. Right. So it's a it levels the playing field in terms of opportunities.
And if you're asking the right questions and looking for those opportunities, I think it's a great opportunity for MSLs to really show their value in ways that we never had before. So I I would say be confident. And when you know something or hear something that you really think, this is this is what I value in MSLs as much as anything, or the people that send me a text, give me a call, send me an email, and say, you know what, Paul?
Today, I had something I think that we need to discuss as a team. There's an opportunity here. Right? And and I've got numerous examples, of of people that have uncovered this, MSLs that have done this. And I I I tell my RDs and my MSL team, best part of my day is when I'm talking to an MSL. It just always seems to be that what I'm hearing, the energy, the enthusiasm, the opportunity, they're all there. It's absolutely there. So that's that's kind of it from my standpoint.
I'm curious from you as a recruiter and what you do, the value that you bring to so many people, Tom. How has this changed your life in the way that you're looking at candidates and placing candidates? How's this changed, you and your business? I mean, it's drastic change, because we were in a situation where it was it was booming. We were busier than we've ever been, as far as hiring practices and number of jobs open and how many interviews we're seeing on a regular basis.
It was a really, really good time, and it's still a good time. I don't wanna make this gloom and doom. I will say that when things shut down and when this when the, you know, when things really started to take effect, a lot of companies put things on hold, a lot of positions have been eliminated. But I'm here to say that, you know, you mentioned confidence, I think optimism is really important.
I think that, especially if you're a job seeker and you're in a position where you need to find a job, don't get discouraged. You know, it it it's a difficult time in a lot of ways but there are opportunities out there, There are virtual interviews that are taking place, in lieu of on-site live interviews. So, hiring hasn't stopped, it has been effective but it hasn't stopped. My advice to job seekers is to, you know, be more aggressive, be more vocal.
Don't overdo it, don't be obnoxious but, you know, be out there network. Work on your networking skills and and, and and try to get yourself in the right position. And when you do practice, practice your video interviewing. Don't go into a video interview cold. It's more difficult than interviewing live. So, there's a lot of information out there. As a matter of fact, I wrote an article, I published it on LinkedIn about how to be successful in a video interview.
Check it out, but practice and don't get discouraged. Be optimistic, be positive because we're gonna get through this and right now there's still a lot of silver lining, even though it doesn't seem like it. You brought it up before. HCPs are still engaging with their with their MSLs. They're still giving you know, there's still FaceTime, plenty of FaceTime. There's a lot of work to be done and there's still jobs out there, a lot of jobs that are available.
Companies are still hiring and I think when we come out of this, I think there's gonna be a huge boom. I think that the that companies are gonna be go are probably gonna be hiring MSOs at a quicker pace than they ever have. I don't subscribe to the fact, oh, well, this is gonna diminish the value. No. I think that this is gonna be we're gonna come out of this and it's gonna be the best time ever for medical affairs. I think you're right.
You know, one of the things I've been guilty of saying throughout my career is when times are bad, people need MSLs. And when times are good, people need MSLs. Right? So I think that optimism I share with you. Love love love love your, love your optimistic attitude, Tom. Well, listen, Paul, I can't thank you enough. You're you were great. Thank you for being here.
My condolences to your family for for losing, you know, losing your friend and, but I I will, I I this is a podcast and I'm gonna go back and listen to myself because there's a lot of really good information that you shared. I think everybody's really gonna get a lot of value out of it, and you have to come back again for sure. I'd love to. Tom, thanks for the invite. Really appreciate it. You got it my friend. Stay well. You too.
Stay well, Tom. Thank you so much for listening to the show, and if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future, and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.