Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. Sorry. Technical difficulties. We're trying to get things going. I'm excited because I have my two partners in crime here. Sarah Snyder and Katrina Pellet are joining me. You guys know that we are the founders of MSL Mastery, and we're gonna bring you I think this is a really important topic because we're hearing so much from the MSL community about presentation skills, the importance of it, the gaps, training needs, and it's just really surfaced.
And now with AI and all the tools that are out there, it's really become a great time to level up and get yourself to a whole new place as a presenter. So, guys, are you excited as you as as excited as I am? I think we're probably more excited, Tom. Yeah. We have to take down the excitement. Yeah. We're, like yeah. Awesome. Alright. Well alright. Where do you guys wanna start? You want you want me to start? Or Me. I wanna start. Alright. Sorry. Where you go?
Question for you, Tom. Oh, you have a question for me. I got a question for you. Okay. And I think people wanna hear this too. Back up five years ago when you started the podcast Yeah. It's been over that now. Right? So I remember listening to it before I was ever a guest or anything like that and thinking, this is really good.
So you have a natural speaking ability, but I know you've also done a lot of things to get to where you are so comfortable and engaging on the podcast and then just on virtual calls and then general in person. So what did you do to get to that point? So it's fun it's funny that you should say that because I had a very difficult time listening to myself in those early years.
I I didn't wanna listen to my own podcast because you know you don't like the sound of your own voice, and you're very hypercritical of yourself. But that's what helped me get better. I actually forced myself. I literally forced myself to listen to the early episodes, go back, and I was I would critique myself and take notes on the the number of filler words I would use, what the words were. I would listen to the inflection in my voice. If if you go back, you'll hear a different person.
We gotta do that, Sarah. Now we gotta do it. I think you will. I I do. I feel like my confidence wasn't the same. Not I'm I'm not gonna use the impostor syndrome, but I was trying to figure my shit out. And the early days were just me kinda stumbling along. But, Sarah, you know and, like, to your point, I I was in I've been in five different coaching programs. I've taken courses. I got certified as a speaker, trainer, and coach through the Maxwell Leadership Program, which I thought was awesome.
Getting to see what good looks like is super, super helpful, but the most important thing is practice. Those programs and anybody that is good at this will tell you that you have to practice. And there's an awareness piece. You have to know what your issues are, what your gaps are. So for me, I had to go back and listen and take notes and say, oh my god. I'm I have to I'm listening to myself, and I could hear myself. That's not how I wanna be.
And that's what really got me better was that trial and error and practice and and seeing what good looks like. So I got I have an idea. Really. I got two. I got two ideas. I think we have to take the original podcast that he did and then one that he's done in the last month, plug that in our tool and let it do a before and after. It keep going. Well, my my idea is much more stupid. I was gonna think that we should tell everybody Tom is the AI behind our tool.
That he's the that we don't have AI measuring everything. It's Tom. It's Tom. He he did. Or he watches it and looks for inflection points and filler words. Wouldn't that be so funny? Imagine, like, a little Tom behind the scene like I'm in there, like, the wizard of Oz back there just figuring it all out, counting all the filler words. Fillers. Right? Doing the whole thing. Oh my god. That's 17 umps. You said so seven times. I like how Sarah's idea was a good one and mine was a bad one.
They're both very good ideas, although I'm not gonna sit behind the box. Yeah. Just so you know. But one takeaway that I had from what you just said, Tom, is that you practiced. I think a con misconception that we see a lot with all these different aspiring and new MSLs and mid career professionals and pharma teams that we work with is that they think it's something that people are born with. Right? That they come out of the womb ready to present like Bill Gates. Right?
And this is just not the case. Yeah. I think that there is this some people are more gifted, and they're more natural. He's like, I don't know. Yeah. Just saying. Well, tough people. You know what's funny, though? What's funny is what like, sometimes I'll meet people at conferences, and they'll be like, I love your podcast because I love your accent. I feel like I'm listening to a New York City cab driver. I'm like, really? What?
But, no, I think I think it does come naturally for some people, but it can be taught. That's the whole point. Guys, the reason for this podcast is that we want to help people become better presenters because this could be taught. But I wanna talk to you guys, and I wanna see what you're seeing. So you're obviously, with coaching the aspiring MSLs through the Aspire program and and and experienced MSLs and some of the team training programs, like, what are some of the things you guys are seeing?
Sarah, you wanna go or you want me to go? You go first. Well, I think a big turning point for me personally was when I started helping Tom and Sarah with the Aspire MSL program. If you guys don't know this, it's a point and shoot program for people that wanna transition into an MSL role. And if you haven't checked it out, you should. It's freaking beautiful and awesome. And one really important point about this program is that Sarah and I give feedback on practice presentations.
As you guys know, when you are transitioning into an MSL role or in the interviewing process, the final stage tends to be a scientific presentation. And this is what makes or breaks you a lot of the time. And, Sarah, do you wanna add anything on before I keep going? Nope. Keep going. Okay. Well, okay. No break. I have to keep going. So Sarah and I will sit down with these folks. We get the prompt that they get from the company. We go through their slides one by one with them.
So first, they give the presentation as they would like, they're presenting to the hiring manager or the panel. And then Sarah and I sit there, and we are we go we're like, slide one. Okay. You said this or that. We would rephrase it that way, or maybe you should introduce a pause. And this has been so valuable for the people in our program because it gives them very specific actionable feedback that they are then applying in the real interview and then landing the job.
And we know that this is making the difference a lot of the times for these folks. What I noticed and what the turning point is so, guys, I'm coming around full circle here, the full story here. Yep. You're like, Tom's like, is she gonna get to it? This thirty minute podcast. It's coming. We were saying the same things over and over to these folks. So we saw the same problems over and over. It's rushing through the slides, maybe data dumping.
Sometimes people are talking so fast, maybe I'm talking about myself here, that they run out of breath. Right? It's just things like that. Sarah, what else would you add? What what do we tend to coach on the most? Biggest thing, reading notes. That is it's it's not gonna get you hired in 2025, 2026, and beyond if you're reading your notes. In fact, numerous times, Petrina and I have said you guys have to ditch the notes.
You have to know what's the most important thing you're gonna talk about and go with that and not have detailed scripts. I think that's the number one thing I've seen. Oh, yeah. Definitely. I mean, we've all been in those kinds of presentations, right, where people are just reading, either reading their notes or reading their slides, and it's super boring. Tom, what would you add? What do you think we see most often in Aspire? Well, I could tell you that there's this confidence piece.
Yeah. And you hear it in the person's voice, and you see it in their body language. And and it changes the whole dynamic of the presentation. And then a lot of times, those people and to your point, Petrina, they might be just rushing through it because they're nervous, or they're reading the slides because they're nervous. So part of this is getting confident. And the only way you get confident is when you practice.
Yeah. And I think that when we see people that really put the time in and, guys, like, when I say practice, like, I'm I did all this by myself. I had to figure out what was it that I was messing up, where do I need where did I need to improve, And then I had to practice. It's the same thing. But you need the awareness.
You need somebody to tell you, or you have to figure it out yourself or do it in a mirror in the mirror or record yourself and then look at it and be like, would I hire me kinda thing? I used to do that too. And in previous trainings, they would record us. Or I know some people will do it at home on their phone, but almost everybody I've ever talked to hates to do it. So Tom did it, but I think 99% of the people out there are saying, no way. I'm not doing it.
And I might practice for my friend who's gonna say great job, or I might practice in front of the mirror. But most of us aren't like you, Tom, and we can't get ourselves even to record and watch it because we don't like the sound of it. It's interesting to think about. Yeah. When I look at my old videos, like very old ones on my YouTube channel, I wanna crawl under my desk and die. I'm, like, so freaking embarrassed by them. It's it's amazing.
And I did a lot of what Tom mentioned as well just watching myself. You if you don't see what you're doing, to Tom's point, with the visibility, you have no idea what to fix. And to Sarah's point, if you're just getting feedback like, good job. This is this is actually not very helpful either. Oh, you got like, literally, you want the hard truth, man. You wanna know because if you don't, you're just gonna keep making the same mistakes over and over. Yep. And a lot of it's it's fixable.
A lot of this stuff is fixable. I think probably all of it is. But alright. So let's let's kinda move forward with how did you handle this? So so seeing this, tell me about the evolution of what you did to help folks. Sarah, you go. So we had the presentation part in Aspire. Mhmm. And then I think it was probably a random cell phone conversation between Patrina and I, and we dreamt up this presentation mastery that would be part of MSL mastery.
So I would say your husbands would tell you that all summer long, we worked on this project every week. Gone. Yeah. Those summer vacations, it was one of those deep dives where we wanted to learn from the top TED Talks, from the top presentation courses. Every book that we could get our hands on, we took, and then we molded it into an MSL and medical affairs specific course. I had really good training on presentations early in my career.
I still remember a lot of the philosophies I was taught, but it was not specific to MSLs. So no matter how much our leadership explained to that training director, this is what an MSL does. This is what m an MSL does. They still didn't grasp the fact that a lot of our stuff was thinking on our feet. And they could have us go do this 10 slide thing and record us and have us watch back.
But in reality, we were usually struggling the most with the questions after the presentation or those really fast phone calls where or virtual calls, not back then, but where you're presenting to your team on a teleconference and now on a Zoom call. So those are the things where I felt like we have to uplevel from anything existing out there. So it was this dream, and it came to fruition. Yeah. So we have this amazing online course. It's it's a beast.
It has three huge modules, the art of presenting, scientific storytelling, and crushing virtual presentations. If you're a online course, kinda self paced person, you should definitely check it out. And I wanna tell one story from when we were making this, Sarah. So it was summer of twenty twenty four. We were driving our husbands crazy because we had to be on I was like, I have to work this weekend. I have to work. And, Sarah, do you remember?
I think it was when we were doing the storytelling one. We spent the whole day recording. Guys, if you haven't made an online course for, like, a one minute video, you record for, like, thirty minutes. I swear. Know what you're gonna say. Takes forever. You you guys know this, Tom and Sarah from Aspire too. You know, like, a one hour recording is, in reality, at least ten hours of recording somehow. It's always way longer.
Yeah. But Sarah and I had spent the whole day recording, and we felt really good. And then Sarah was the one uploading it into our platform, and she texted me, and she said I messed up. Yep. And I was like, oh, no. What happened? She didn't have our videos on. Oh, no. Yes. I was like Yes. Sat on it, and then we both luckily, we're you know, Sarah and I are vibing. We're, like, on the same wavelength. Yeah. I was like, Sarah, I think we have to do it over. He was like, yes. We do.
I was like, we can't be the presentation lady. No. No. Not have any you know, in this course of stuff on body language and hand gestures and making eye contact, and I was like, we have to redo it. So when I told my husband, he just, like, shook his head. Right? He was I know. Was like, we have to. But that listen. You know what? Therein there's a therein lies the nature of if you want something to be good, you gotta put the time into it. And if if you have to redo it, you have to redo it.
I know that I've I've created full videos, gotten to the very, very end, and then I'm and I screw up, or I don't like it. And then I have to do a whole thing all over again. But, guys, when you're practicing and you're becoming a good presenter, or if you're practicing for an interview, that's what it takes. Don't think that you're wasting your own time, or don't think that you're a loser. That's what it takes. You have to put the time in.
So talk to me about some of the stuff that you are you know, that you found that you had to put into the program. So I know, Katrina, you're dying. I'll just let take a date. No. I wanna say some like, actually, it's not to answer your question at all, if that's okay. He's like Go ahead. Jump in. Boy, I just wanted to tell another story about our presentation mastery online course, and then we can tell you guys some stuff that's in there.
Mhmm. The first person that bought it was an aspiring MSL. Do you remember, Sarah? Yes. We were a little worried. We were like, did he get in the wrong program? But he felt, to Tom's point, not confident in his presentations. And he knew the presentation was so important So important. For him to land this job. And he took our course and got the job. Sarah, do you remember? We I think we were, like, dancing around. We were so We were so excited.
And I think that is when the bells rang off too that we were still thinking about it more like formal presentations and not like something where you might be doing a presentation to three people on your team or to a couple sales reps, and it's only two minutes, but you have to look at it like it's a presentation. So he he looked at his entire interview process as a presentation, not just the scientific part of it. And I think that won him the job as much as the scientific presentation.
His scientific presentation was still one of the top 10 I've ever seen in my life. It was so good. Oh, for sure. Remember after he gave that, Sarah, we said the only reason you won't get this job is if there's someone more experienced. Totally. Like, you have this in the bag. This is yours. But, Sarah, back to Tom's question. What do you think throughout this process are some of the key things that we pulled through into the presentation mastery course.
Mhmm. Well, one part that I have to tell you guys that's in there that might not be the key part, but one day, I said, Katrina, we're gonna record just a short 15 thing. And she said tricked me. You tricked me. Yeah. You tricked me, you guys. Yeah. You did. So she shows up, and I had her go through all these vocal warm up exercises. She had to stand up. She had to do jump jack jumping jacks. She had to sing a little bit. She had to a little bit, all these things.
So that's in the course, but it's not my favorite part. But it is something where if you are doing a really big presentation and you need to warm up your voice, I'm still getting over a cold, so I still sound froggy. So I would probably do it to try to get a little of that out of my voice. But I think the part that's really relevant to MSLs is the pause aspect, and we don't just say pause more often. We actually teach you how to strategically pause.
And, also, the story aspect, that's a framework that I think everybody has some storytelling tips and the five steps to better storytelling, but this is a framework for putting primary endpoints and secondary endpoints and safety endpoints into stories, not case studies, not patient examples, but storytelling with data. So that's the part I think I like the best. What about you?
I would say one thing and for the listeners to take away as well, and we're just seeing this across the board with the people that we work within our communities and in the teams that we train is working on your virtual presence. Oh, yeah. And when you're doing Tom's tip of watching yourself, look at your facial expressions. Look at your if you have resting murder face.
I know I have this really bad where I have the problem where people have asked me what's wrong, and that's actually just my thinking face. And so take a look, especially on Zoom, how you're coming off. We Sarah, what was that poll you did recently? How many hours of week of virtual meetings people have? Yeah. Most people have four plus virtual meetings a week. And that poll got so many questions where I kept getting DMs.
Well, is this a meeting where, you know, that I'm doing a formal presentation? I said, well, if you're talking, you're presenting. So answer like that. Because even if you're on a call like the three of us right now, we're still presenting. So that's, I think, really important for people to grasp. But even if you're talking for two minutes, it's still something that you should think about your virtual presence on. Yeah. The other day, we were doing a training call, and Sarah made a comment.
All the MSLs look dead. They did? She was like We need the beginning, luckily. We got them Yeah. Perked up. But think about this and think from the if you're meeting KOLs virtually, do you wanna look like you're dead or bored to death, or do you wanna look engaging? So take a look at your video like Tom recommended and look at your facial expressions.
I think if you can change that and uplevel that alone, if that's only the one thing you take from this podcast, then you're gonna be miles above a lot of other people. I feel like people are getting so used to being on, you know, virtual meetings and on camera that they actually forget they're on camera, and they don't put any effort into it. They're not cognizant. They're not aware.
I really think that there's gotta be an effort and an awareness to your virtual presence so that you can animate yourself a little bit. And I I have the opposite problem. I use my hands too much. I get overly animated. I like He's like a cat that's like swiping stuff off the table all the time. I'm telling you, like, I'm like, when I go out to dinner, watch out. I'll knock shit off the table. I'm spilling crap. Like, I get really super animated.
That was one of the things I picked up when I started watching myself. I was like, dude, you're getting me dizzy. Just sit in your seat. You can use your hands. I think it's important. I think hand gestures I know, Sarah, you I know you actually helped me with this. I think you took a course or something. There was something about hand gestures and Ted Talks, and it's important to be mindful of your hand gestures, but you also have to be mindful not to be too fidgety and move too much.
So we're running the gamut. We're talking about, you know, resting murder face. We're talking about looking dead. We're also talking about being too animated. But how do you know this? You have to practice. You have to watch yourself. And if you if you can get if you could humble yourself and get in the mode of just saying, okay. How can I get better? It makes a huge difference. Yes. 100%. Yeah. So I wanna transition to asking you guys, could you talk to a lot of managers and MSL leaders?
What are they saying? What are the problems they're bringing to you? What are what's the what are the issues presentation wise with their teams? Sarah, you want me to go, or you wanna go? I'll go first on this one. I think the two that jump out, and you probably have the same ones, Katrina, number one is still data No matter what, that's still gonna be one of them. And I think it's still a problem even though we've all gotten better because there's less time.
So even if you think you're not data dumping and you've really drilled down, people still are so busy and have less time that you have to streamline it even more. And then the second thing is the thinking on your feet and the impromptu presentations. There is another LinkedIn poll that I did on this, and it ended up three fourths of people think they need more training on that aspect.
Most MSLs are quite good at if you gave them a deck with 10 slides and said, you're gonna start to finish, go through those, no interruptions, no q and a. Mhmm. I got this. But that's I I mean, who gives that presentation like that? No one. What do you think? I definitely was thinking storytelling. And, right, if you if you're a data dumper Yep. Storytelling can help with that a lot. And we get a lot of training requests from that.
So Sarah and I have really started to get a lot of requests from teams in pharma and biotech to help with storytelling. I would say another ask that we get a lot is related to what we were talking about with looking dead, like, boring, being boring presenters. So not bringing energy to their presentations. And the the managers aren't saying, you know, act like a sales rep or be promotional, but give this a little bit of energy and bring people in.
And it's not the same as being, like, a cheesy presenter at all, but sometimes they're just so clinical and dry that they want to see a little bit more spark in the presentations. Yeah. And I can I'll add one thing because I always like to look at things and and throw in the interview aspect of this. Yes. And one of the biggest things that that we're hearing, the failure of a lot of presentations and interviews, is that there are too many slides. It's too long.
So now because it's it's a finite amount of time that you have to do the presentation, people are rushing through their slides. They start off at a good pace. Everything's going good. Then they're like, oh my god. I'm gonna be over on time, and I'm gonna get dinged for that. Now they rush, and they're reading, and they're nervous. Keep it shorter. Yeah. Less is more. Right? Sarah, would you agree with that as far as slide creation?
Yeah. Believe it or not, I just read this on LinkedIn, and this was from pharma that 75% of slides that are created and this isn't for interviews, but this is for by MedCom, SciComms. 75% of slides that are created are never even used. So that tells you people are only using that quarter. Sometimes those others a percentage of those slides have to be created for compliance reasons, and you might have to show them quickly. We're not talking about those kind of slides.
Yeah. We're talking about the main stuff. You gotta know what you're gonna go over. And like you said, Tom, less is more. Yeah. Yeah. And you guys like, for listeners, these guys are like, they're so far ahead when it comes to all of all of this stuff. What's the latest in in in training, and and what are the issues out there? I from my seat watching you guys, I've seen this, like, breakthrough. Yeah. I've seen this breakthrough happen.
Can you talk about just what you've been able to learn and develop just through AI and how you're using that? Because it's fascinating to me. Yeah. Sarah, I'll start, and then you go. Alright. So, guys, we we put together our online course presentation mastery. That's been really great. Then we started doing presentation skills trainings for MSL teams.
And one thing that Sarah and I really care about a lot in our trainings is that they are not boring and that an MSL does not wanna buy a ticket home to leave that training early. And you guys have probably done these type of trainings, but you might have to sit through a day long thing where everybody presents one by one to get feedback. Or even worse, you're in a peer to peer peer to peer situation, so you present to each other. Right?
When you're doing presentation skills, you wanna get advice from the expert, not from your peer. So when Sarah and I were thinking about the asks that we were getting from pharma leaders and how we were gonna deliver a presentation mastery course or in person or team training, we immediately went to AI. And Sarah has previously taken an AI based presentation course, and I'm gonna pass it over to you, Sarah. I don't wanna steal your thunder.
I'll tell you that AI presentation course changed my thought process about practice. It completely shifted for me. I gave it to myself as a Mother's Day gift couple years ago. And I know that sounds crazy, but like Katrina said, I had done a lot of role plays as an MSL. I think we're all doing an eye roll when we hear that word. And then it's one of those things where, Katrina, how did I do? And you say, good job, Sarah. Maybe you could slow down a little bit when you went over such and such.
And then we we're done with that, and we start to chat about where we're going to dinner that night, and that is over. Right? So I got nothing out of it. The AI tool gives you immediate feedback, and I learned more in two days of that course than I had ever known about my presentation skills. I gained a lot as an MSL doing promotional programs where I had to do them all the time, think on my feet to different audiences, etcetera. And you could get the feedback from the audience.
You could feel if they were engaged. You knew it. You did a pretty good job. But AI breaks it down. If you're on YouTube Tom, can they see where it says MSL Mastery AI Coach? Or no? Well, if you're on YouTube, you can see it. Yeah. You can see it if you're on YouTube. So if you're not on YouTube, there's these two little blocks, the black boxes for Zoom, and it says MSL Mastery AI Coach. Katrina and I both have those on here.
At the end of this call, we will know what our style was, our demeanor, how many filler words we use, what our pace was like if we had a lot of inflection in our voice. We'll get more metrics on this than most people got their entire career. So that combined with our presentation course, I think Katrina's like, Sarah, stop talking about it. But I I love this thing, and it gives you immediate feedback, which is something that if you know, hey. I gotta present on this conference call tomorrow.
I'm a little bit nervous. I gotta share this abstract from ASCO. It was a late breaker, so everybody's gonna be on the call. You can hop on there, and you can practice it and get immediate feedback. You don't have to record yourself because we know everybody hates to do that. Yeah. So the breakthrough for us and the feedback has been phenomenal from the teams that we've been working with is introducing this AI tool.
So we'll drill on a skill and then have everybody practice with the AI tool individually, and then they get real time personalized feedback. And I was worried when we when Sarah and I did this the first time, I was like, oh, they're not they're not gonna like this. And we were blown away by how much they liked it. And, you know, looking back, you know, hindsight is always twenty twenty. MSLs love data. And so getting to see their data, they loved the metrics.
They were all talking, I got this many percentage on conciseness, and they really liked that. And so that that was really, I think, our biggest breakthrough. And talk about the five p's because I think that that's such a big part of it. Just to kind of explain the relevance how that all came together and ties in. Oh, yeah. Yep. Sarah, you want me to do it? Or You can take that one because it's five p's plus Katrina.
We have we have a joke because we have another congress planning workshop that we do that it's the three p's. So our joke is that we only do frameworks that start with p's. It only has p's because of the change. So what we did and the reason that we chose the AI tool that we chose is that we have a proprietary five p framework. These are five different things that we recommend people optimize in their presentations to be powerful presenters.
We had built that out in our presentation mastery online course, but our AI tool allowed us to put that into it and have metrics for it. So now we can measure MSLs, how they're doing on pauses, pitch, pace, pronunciation, and projection in real time. Mhmm. Sarah? I think she hid it. You hit it. Sorry. I got a couple of Yeah. She knew. Yeah. So I'll I'll I know Tom is looking at the watch, you guys. He's like, oh my god. These videos I I let up shut up. But Listen.
Okay. But we could go on forever. Yeah. You know? I have to share one thing because I don't know where you're gonna go with the next question. So just so that we get it in. Because we talked a lot about scientific data presentations, and that's what we always think about in the medical affairs realm. But the other thing that is so cool about this particular tool and what I liked about it when I initially took the course is that I could apply it to my life.
So if you've ever had a scenario where I gotta go talk to my boss or oh my gosh, they asked me, can you cover this conference in a week? Somebody else backed out. And you've already covered three, and you think somebody else should do it. But you so you call your friend. Right? And you say, can I practice on you? Or you write down what you're gonna say to your boss or whatever. That's what you can do with AI AI tool too. And you can say, you know, here's what I'm gonna say.
You actually say it, and then it gives you feedback and suggest different ways to say it. So I think that's a cool thing too that we don't think about enough is how we can improve presenting a new idea or presenting something that we're not happy about so that we're not weak and that we also don't seem super angry. That that's level two. Yep. Awesome. So this let's transition because I know that the AI tool is not a part of the presentation mastery course.
It's a part of the Elite Presentation Lab. Correct? Yep. So what happened after Sarah and I delivered this team training and got these really great results and we saw how much MSLs liked it, we decided we need to bring this to individual MSLs. And that's why we started the elite presentation program. We if you guys haven't seen it yet, you should definitely check it out. It is a six month program where you learn a p, one of the five p's, and then you practice it in the tool.
And we have role plays and well, not let's call them scenarios, whatever you wanna call them, of real life things that MSLs will come against in the field. We just had a meeting yesterday with our the our founding members, and we had another breakthrough there. Yeah. Sarah, do you wanna talk about that? You can keep going because I She's like, what breakthrough? I don't know what she's talking I I agree with you that it was definitely a breakthrough.
I think some of it was about how to say no. Yeah. Little bit about how to get promoted. What else did you what were your main takeaways? So the what we did with our founding members is had a quick meeting to say, okay. We're thinking about doing these scenarios, things like how to pause appropriately at the primary endpoint. Very important, obviously, and things that MSLs are doing all the time. But we asked our founding members, what do you wanna do? What are your scenarios?
The breakthrough was they didn't ask for a single scientific related thing. They wanted things like Sarah was mentioning. They wanted to know how to say no to their boss, how to deal with a difficult colleague. And I can't stop thinking about it since then because Sarah and I started building this, and we're so thankful for her founding members coming in with a corporate perspective. Right? We had ideas on what when a farmer farmer leader came to us, what they would wanna see.
But having this program for individual MSLs, now it it was so interesting. They don't wanna see that. They want stuff on boundary setting and saying no. And Mhmm. It's amazing. The A better life. Yeah. To to really be able to drill down to the individual level of what's important to them. What do they want to get better at when it comes to presenting? Because I think it really is individualized.
Because my the issue that I might be dealing with may be very different from the issue that someone else might be dealing with. Yep. And that's what's so great about our tool and the program. We can customize the heck out of it. I know Tom wants us to wrap up. Oh, yeah. We're way over time. So one last thing. We are in the founders period of the elite presentation lab. If you wanna join, we have special pricing going on through July 4. The program kicks off July 15. It's a six month program.
We would love to have you guys reach out to me, Tom, or Sarah to get more information. But, man, if you wanna uplevel your presentations, this is it. You guys need to get in this. It is a complete game changer. Check it out. Reach out, guys. We'd love to to share the information with you. Now what happens like, okay. So it's right now, we're summer. We're, like, pre fourth of July. We're getting into this. What happens if six months from now someone listens to it and it's after the fact?
Do they just reach out and then get into that? Too bad. No. I don't know. Reach out. You know what? Just reach out. Rude. You're just rude. Yeah. Don't miss it. Get in the first one. Yeah. No. Well, it's kinda I I we're doing a lot. Like, Katrina said, we're doing a lot on the company side. So we might be able to do it for your entire team. If you're looking for an individual at that point, we'll have a wait list, and then we'll see when the next cohort will open. Yep. Listen, guys. Practice.
Practice. Practice. Hopefully, this was helpful for you. Hopefully, you look at this whole presentation, not dilemma, but the the the heavy lift that comes with being a good presenter and realize that with practice and with commitment to yourself, you can kick ass. I actually tell you, I I cringe when I went back and listened to my earlier podcast. Bob, I I say that to people, and a couple of people are like, what are you talking about? It sounds the same to me. Not to me.
I'm telling you guys, practice will get you there. Sara and Pachina, thank you guys so much. You, Tom. Appreciate you coming. And, guys, have an awesome fourth of July. Yeah. Happy fourth. Yeah. Happy fourth, and we'll see you next time. Perfect. Thanks, Tom.