Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Hani Lee, and we are gonna talk about the importance of leveraging your unique skills to advance in your career. And so Hani and I met actually last August at a conference. We were both kinda co presenters and got to know each other. Actually saw her again at MAPS this year, and we had this idea of doing this podcast. Why?
Because Hani has she has an amazing background, and I thought that she'd be the perfect person to talk to both our friends here in The US, folks that are international candidates and international medical affairs folks, and kind of pull it all together. So, Hani, welcome to the podcast. Thank you, Tom. Thank you so much. I'm really excited about today's session. Yeah. No. It's gonna be great. Why don't we do this? Why don't we start?
If you could do, like, a brief introduction and talk about a little bit about your background and your international experience and and all that stuff just to start. Sure. So my name is Honey. I'm Korean. I was born and raised in Korea. I lived in The US very briefly as a child. In terms of my background, I'm a urologist. I'm a female urologist trained in Korea. I received my medical training, my master's and PhD in Korea as well.
And I moved to pharma eleven years ago, so I started my pharma career in Pfizer Korea. I worked in Pfizer Korea for six years, then I moved to Pfizer Japan for five years, and now I'm in the New York headquarters with Pfizer for for a year. And throughout my career, I've been able to work with work with all TAs in pharma. I've been working in regional global positions as well, and I've managed a lot of different people from different countries.
And it's been an extremely enjoyable and exciting journey. Hani's amazing. I I my listen. My first impression, two things. Number one, I didn't know her name. I just know everybody was calling her Honey. And I'm like, why is everybody calling her Honey? Like, do they really know her well enough to call her Honey? And then I realized her name's Honey. So that's number one. I'm like, her my initial impression when she was really which is was which she was really sweet.
But then the second is I saw her present. I was like, wow. Like, she's amazing. I have to have her on the podcast. But the the the other thing too, guys, is that one once we met, I realized that she really does have a unique background and a unique skill set. And having this international and global experience speaking several languages, just it makes her so valuable.
So the idea is, guys, it's so important to leverage your unique skills, to help you in your career and navigate you navigate your career journey. So, Honey, tell us a little bit about why it's so important for MSLs to be aware of and leverage their unique skills in in, like, this competitive job market that we're in and competitive environment. Yes. Absolutely, Tom. I think that as the job market becomes more and more competitive, personal branding is really important.
So when we think about you, Tom, we we immediately can remember your energy, your your wonderful speaking skills, your warm personality. And then even in the workplace as well, MSLs, they have to have their own personal brand. It may be different. It may be some people may be more extroverted. Some people may demonstrate even stronger business acumen. They may speak several languages. They may have, you know, different communication skills.
But I think that being able to be authentic and being able to have your own personal brand really makes you impressionable, and people will remember you for what you stand for. And as I've worked in multiple countries and I've worked with people with very different skill sets and personalities, I realized that the ones who've been really true to their talents and have strong self awareness and are able to showcase showcase that have been successful.
Yeah. And and I think that this is something that not everybody takes time to recognize. Mhmm. And to so for example, I think that you hit the nail on the head when you said, you know, when you talk about, know, personal branding and and really identifying and honing in on these skills so that you give a clear picture to the community, to the industry as to who you are, what value you bring, and what makes you special. So how does one identify what makes them unique?
Especially in in a field where there's so many different candidates and it's competitive and clinical backgrounds? How do they how would you recommend people can do you know, do that? That is a great question, Tom. And maybe I can share my own personal experience because in my previous roles, I was at a one time of my personal career, I was the country medical director of Japan.
So that was a very unusual situation because in Japan, it's very unusual for a female leader who's non Japanese from Asia to come to lead the organization. Right? So when I came into that position, I really had to make sure that people understood what I stood for, and that was a different type of leadership. It was very humble servant leadership, but also at the same time, I came there to lead the organization and really set up people for success, and that's what people came to know me for.
So I think that for MSLs and also for people working in pharma overall, number one, you have to think about why am I here, and how can I leverage my skills to make this, you know, as impactful and valuable as possible, and at the same time, being aware of the external environment, what is relevant in terms of science, and also even the regulatory landscape, the reimbursement? What do doctors really need, and how can I address those points?
So once you have an understanding about yourself and the external environment and it it requires also a lot of, you know, reflection as well. What am I good at? What are areas that I need to improve? Or what are areas that I can even deprioritize? So people who, on the one hand, can build their professional skill set, but also can build their personal branding based upon their talents are usually setting themselves up for success. Yeah. No. I love that. I think that's so important. You know?
And and as as you're as you're speaking and as I'm thinking about you and and and your background, talk to me a little bit about what it's like to speak multiple languages. And if there's anyone else out there that also speaks more you know, many languages, what kind of competitive advantage would that give them as an MSL, and how do they leverage that? Sure. So I speak Korean and English. I'm perfectly bilingual.
And when I was in Japan during the five years I stayed there, I also was able to brush up and improve my Japanese skills, so I think I'm quite fluent. I also learned French in high school as well, so I can communicate in French as well. And when I worked with the colleagues in Europe, oftentimes speaking multiple languages is very common.
And what I noticed when I worked with them is that with those language skill sets, they also bring in a very broad perspective of that extends beyond the local environment so they understand other countries and the ways that other people are thinking.
And then in Japan, we had MSLs who were interestingly from The US, from Europe, from Africa, from Korea, China, and they were able to bring in their knowledge of another country and also bring that add value to the local environment and sometimes challenge the norm. Right?
So speaking a different language means that you also understand a different culture, and that often brings situations that often puts you in situations where you see things differently, and you can challenge it in a non confrontational way. And those approaches were oftentimes very well received by HCPs because it was often thought provoking, and it could add value and differentiate from local candidates.
So that could sometimes compensate in cases where their language skills may not have been the the native level, but still they brought in value, and that added on to their critical thinking skills and their communication skills as well. And would you say when like, as you were looking for opportunities, like, were you looking for, like, for example, Korean companies because, know, because you you were fluent in in Korea.
Like, would would that give you an obviously, an advantage over somebody else, or would that give you more interest in working at those companies? I'm curious from a job search perspective in looking for opportunities. Did you seek out those types of organizations? Oh, that's a great question, Tom. So I I think that it works both ways. Right? So, I mean, when you have a broader understanding multiple cultures, you have the options to choose. So it adds, let's say, one more option.
Let's say some people may just be looking at their US based companies. They may only know English, which is fine. Mhmm. And there are people who can speak both, and they can add that option as well. And then there are people and you can search for Korean companies or Japan Japanese companies. And then, also, I've realized that you can be sought out by those companies who want someone with that skill set as well.
So I think that on the other hand, it doesn't mean that if you don't have those skill sets, you should shy away. Because when I came to Japan, my Japanese was very, very basic, and I learned it during the course of my my work experience in Japan. So I think that if you have those skill sets, you have more options to choose from. You can choose, you can be sought after by people who are looking for people with those skills.
But even though even though you don't have that, if you have the awareness and interest, you can also build those as you move forward in your career. Yeah. And I think I don't know. I think that that gives you an advantage. I think having that unique background is a plus, and I think it's attractive to organizations. It's a differentiator, I guess. Even having international experience is a differentiator.
So let's talk about let's talk about that a little bit and why it's so important to highlight unique skills and experience that are going to help you for a specific job or for a specific company that you're applying to. Can you talk about that? Sure. So as I mentioned, MSLs have different skill sets and different experiences, and sometimes they even want to narrow down to a certain TA. So people who have oncology experience want to go to oncology.
Sometimes people with vaccines experience want to go to vaccines specifically. And sometimes, as you mentioned, people who have skill sets in a certain language want to maximize that experience as well. Right? So, I mean, that would be a great starting point. And, also, let's say that you you find a great job, but you may not be the expert in TA, but you you're demonstrating learning agility, and you can build on upon that.
And then if opportunities to work in a certain country which requires or would prefer the language skills or the cultural understanding of a certain country, that would definitely add value.
So if I look at the candidates who come to us, if they have those skill sets, the learning agility, and the branding to make them capable and also, you know, functional in a very different environment, they're very highly sought after because they they can definitely differentiate between candidates who may not have that experience.
Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, there and and the reason I I keep talking about this is because in my world as a recruiter, and even write this I wrote about this in my book, what we see is that companies really want subject matter experts. They want people that have expertise whether it's in a therapeutic area or whether it's international global experience, whether it's in a certain area of of medical affairs or research as opposed to somebody who has more of a general broad based background.
Mhmm. So what advice would you give to MSLs or even aspiring MSLs on how they could maybe tailor their resume or get really specific with interview answers to emphasize the standout qualities that they have that may make them more of an expert? Sure. Sure. And thank you, Tom. So I think that as I mentioned, there are two aspects. Right? So one would be you have to be very agile. But if you want to really showcase your specific skills, I would just put them on the resume.
You know, mention the the thesis that you've actually written. Mention your research experience. Mention your aspirations. If you really want to specialize in that field, you're the person who knows best. Right? You may want to even compare companies, what their pipelines are. If you're applying for a certain company, you may try to highlight your experience that is relevant to that company, and you want to make sure that you're you understand the company situation very well.
And, also, in terms of languages, let's say we have a candidate who speaks Japanese, and the company wants to expand to Japan. They don't have that much presence. You could emphasize that as a potential career goal because sometimes during interviews, people may ask, what are your aspirations? Where do you want to be five years from now?
If you're understanding that the company wants to expand to Japan in a few years in the future, you might mention that as a potential career goal, which would make you very attractive to the company because they would want to provide you opportunities to grow, but they would also probably need someone who is who would be capable to adapt to that environment. So, as I mentioned, just to reemphasize, please make sure that you do your homework, and we're applying to a company.
You want to make sure that's aligned with your skill set, and you can showcase what you've done or what you can do potentially. And make sure that the skill set you have in some way or another would be attractive to the recruiter. And they may not be just language or research areas as well. It could be jobs that you've held part time, leadership opportunities, even managing a budget for a certain group, And these have all been very attractive from a recruiting perspective.
And and speaking of that, like, know I know that you've hired and interviewed a lot of a lot of candidates over the course of your career. So do you think that people underestimate or maybe overlook some of their own strengths? And if so, what do you think they should do about that? It's a great question. I think that it's more, I think, common in Asian cultures that people tend to be very humble. So they may not showcase their skills as much as we, the recruiters, would like to see.
And that's also something that I may be guilty of because in my early days, I wasn't sure how much I could showcase myself without sounding obnoxious or like a show off. Right? And that's something that we have to strike a balance. There are a lot of materials. I've read a lot of books from Harvard Business School as well on how to showcase yourself in a appropriate way. Right?
We don't want to come off as being overconfident and not being aware of our our surroundings, but at the same time, we want to make sure that we're confident of our achievements, and that really stands out, and that's attractive when we're trying to recruit people. And that I've also noticed that people are very honest. I've had a situation where I had to interview someone who seemed a bit introverted. Right? And that may be perceived as a big flaw if you're applying for an MSL job.
But this person was able to communicate how how he was able to maximize the knowledge that he was able to gather by actively listening and asking good questions. And that actually resulted in high impact initiatives in the company, and these were very attractive from a recruiter's perspective. So you can showcase what is something that may be very uniquely yourself, but also may be perceived as weakness and may come off as one, but it's actually not.
And that confidence and that self awareness is usually very attractive from a recruiter or hiring management perspective. Yeah. And what are you looking for when you're interviewing? Are you actively looking for, you know, certain skills? And and are you trying to see what sets that person apart when you're talking to them? Definitely.
Definitely. In MSL roles, what we really want to have are the core skill sets, which is a good scientific background, and also good listening skills and active questioning skills. And these are actually things that we can identify to some degree during the interview. In interviews, I think that you may have seen people who just talk nonstop or people who just listen and then are very and are not very responsive.
So we want to make sure that we can identify their communication skills and also how they can explain their life journey and their work experience and how it connects to the role they're applying to. There are people who sometimes come in not even knowing not even knowing what an MSL is. I've actually interviewed people who are first very new to the job market. They just wanted to get a job, didn't know what an MSL was.
And I realized that that is not what we're looking for when we're hiring for certain positions. So as I mentioned earlier, people who do their homework, who come prepared, are able to showcase their specific skills and also demonstrate during the interview good communication skills, active questioning, good listening, but also ask good questions. These are what I found have led us to hire and bring in very good talent into the organization. Well, what about is there anything nontraditional?
Like, skills that surprise you, something that impresses you in interviews that would be good for the role but maybe are nontraditional? Sure. I've had people who've actually come have had a different career path and decided to come back. There have people who've had worked in nonprofits.
We have had people who candidates who've worked in business, who've worked in venture capital, and decided that they wanted to come back to the science field, and they really enjoyed gathering insights and delivering impact to the organization and also to the external stakeholders. So these kind of nontraditional experiences have always been very interesting to encounter.
And if they were the right fit, they were very successful because they actually had the experience to explore a different field and come to the realization that, let's say, an MSL or a position in pharma was really what they wanted to do. And they enjoyed it, and they excelled in that.
So those kind of experiences have been things that I've encountered during my hiring and working experience, and those have turned out to be successful in cases where the person the candidate we interviewed really felt that this was a good career transition. That's interesting.
And then what about so let's just let's talk about so someone you know, they get a new job, and they did a great job on the interviews, and they, you know, obviously showcased their unique skill sets, but now they have the job. So what makes them stand out? How do they utilize their their skills and experience to grow their career and make this a long term thing? So let's take this to the next level.
Mhmm. I've realized that people who are very proactive and also ambitious usually are successful because although as managers, we can we can support candidates or support colleagues now, let's say, or, you know, colleagues or team members the best we can. There are occasions where we may not be aware of all opportunities, unfortunately, in the organization. But then colleagues I've noticed, there are people who come, they say, oh, I saw I've seen this opportunity in the company.
I'd really like to join this. Sometimes there are people who actually propose opportunities that they would like to implement in the organization. They bring plans and ideas, and they say, I think that this would be great. I would like to do this. And then they have been able to work together to make that a successful step to a next, you know, position or a next role.
And these colleagues have usually been, very that mindset has enabled them to be successful in the organization because they're very proactive. They're very willing to connect and com and challenge themselves beyond their comfort zone, and they bring in people who share that vision and support them. So that has been my experience. What do you think one unique skill would be that you wish more MSLs would either highlight or develop in their career? What's, like, one unique thing?
I think that having good business acumen is extremely important because MSLs tend to think that scientific knowledge and communication skills may be the most important thing. But also not just looking at the field only, but being able to look at the business as a whole. You can listen to the town halls. You can read the earnings. You can also look at, you know, YouTube and also other media on what the company direction is going, where where we're going to.
And that awareness and that productiveness has been helpful. Yeah. I love that. You know, I think that that's the that's the key, really. I think a lot of times there's they're your personal brand, but there's also the evolution the evolution of your career and and not staying stagnant. What about if you had to give one piece of advice to someone that is trying to use their own personal brand, their own strengths, in their effectively in their MSL career, what advice would you give them?
I would advise them to be confident, I've noticed. And I think everyone has experienced imposter syndrome sometimes in their career, especially when they're going to a new field, a different role, a different country, a different, you know, a different manager, you think. So please do not underestimate your power and your potential. And if you feel impostor syndrome, which everyone has, don't let it, you know, cripple you. Just embrace it.
Understand that it happens to anyone at some point of their career, and take efforts to overcome it in terms of looking back on your past achievements, looking back looking also forward on why you've been into this role, why people trusted you, why people are confident in you. And, also, you want to build a good network of people who appreciate you and support you. And, also, you can reach out to people who you trust to get support as well. So that would be my advice to people who Yeah.
Are That impostor syndrome, man, it creeps up. You know? I think everybody talks about it. It's not it's not something that just affects certain people. I think it affects everyone, and I'm glad that I'm glad that you brought that up. And is that something that as a manager, you see a lot as well, like, once you hire people? Oh, no doubt. No doubt. I've experienced it too. When I came from Japan to global, it was a very different environment, and I I felt overwhelmed at times.
But I managed to build a good network of people who I could trust. And I realized that I'd done amazing things in my career that I myself had underestimated the importance of. So it was a good opportunity actually to build my confidence. So I as I said, everyone experiences impostor syndrome, and it's natural. I think that when you're coming to a very different environment, either, you know, a different country, a different role, different colleagues, different TAs, It often happens.
So please don't underestimate yourself. Don't lose confidence, and try to use this as an opportunity to upscale yourself and also jump up to the next level. That's really great advice, especially in this market. It's competitive, And it's not just competitive for job seekers that are looking for jobs, but it's competitive for MSLs that are in the role and they're looking to get ahead or they're looking to, you know, hit their numbers and there's metrics and there's all these things.
It makes me think about rejection and resilience and how important that is to be able to overcome the rejection or because we talk about impostor syndrome, but there's a lot of people that are just going through setbacks and adversity. Can you talk a little bit about the importance of being resilient in in your medical affairs career? Absolutely. Absolutely. I've experienced a lot of challenges right now.
I think pharma overall, big pharma, we have a lot of challenges in downsizing, you know, rebooking. We have different leadership. It comes off it it it everyone experience it experiences it at different levels, but there will be set setbacks in your career, and there will be challenging situations.
So how to be resilient is that I think that, at least from my perspective, just sitting down quietly and really reflecting on my strengths and also planning very strategically my next steps when I was in challenging situations helped out. Also, it could be a great opportunity to proactively network outside of your comfort zone, outside of your company. For me, I've been utilizing, you know, MAPS Medical Care's Professional Society.
I'm trying to also collaborate or work with the HBA, which was the health care business association for women. And, also, there are multiple organizations in health care or in your area that you could try to join and expand your network.
And that will provide opportunities to get a better understanding about what opportunities might be out there, what people might be looking for someone like you with your talent, and also just to get some advice professionally and see that learn from people who've been in similar situations or could provide very good insights on how you can build your next step. Awesome. You're the best, Hani. I thank you so much for joining me. This was like this went so fast, didn't it?
Wow. Boom. Thirty minutes. Thank you, Tom. I enjoyed it. I always enjoy our conversations. I really appreciate it. And, guys, thank you for joining us. As always, appreciate all your support, and appreciate you sharing the show and subscribing. Don't forget these are on YouTube. If you wanna actually see the video, check us out on YouTube. And, we will see you next time. Thanks, honey. Thank you, Tom. Hi,