Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Elaine Nadeau, director field medical excellence at EMD Serono. And we discuss how MSLs can develop their own individual development plans or IDPs. Really interesting conversation. I hope you guys enjoy it. Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSL's and all things field medical. Hey, Lane. How are you doing today? Thanks for joining me. Good morning, Tom. Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to be here. I am excited, and I am so glad we're doing this. So just to as a little background, you and I recently did a we were on a panel. Right? For it was Mass West? Yes. Yep. We have been together in Florida, but or somewhere tropical. I know. I know. It's all virtual things killing me. But, so, yeah, we had a great session and and we got to talking and I thought it would be great to have you come on, and talk about individual development plans for MSLs.
And this is your, I mean, this is your thing. I know you're an expert at this, so I'm really excited to get into this. But before we do that, can let's why don't you do a quick introduction and let everybody know who you are and what you're up to days? That sounds good. Absolutely. So my name is Elaine Nadeau. I'm a pharmacist by training, graduated from the University of Rhode Island, and I'm currently still living in the fabulous ocean state.
Right now, I'm the director of field excellence at EMD Serono, and I get to support the amazing neurology and immunology field medical team. I'm also pursuing my ICF coaching certification, so I'm I'm currently enrolled at the Institute For Professional Excellence in Coaching. And I work really closely with individuals looking to enhance their leadership skills, advance their careers, as well as those in career transition.
So that's why, Tom, when you brought up this topic, I was really excited because people development is something I'm I'm really passionate about. So, happy to be here with you today. Yeah. No. And that's why, you know, once I kinda got a feel for your expertise, I was like, man, you have got to come on. We gotta talk about this stuff. Before we get into, like, that piece of it, though, I know a lot of people always like to know, you know, how you know, what's your journey?
Like, how did you get into industry? How did you go how'd you get into medical affairs? And and, you know, what's kinda that part of your story? Yeah. So I, my mother is a retail pharmacist. And growing up, I loved science. I loved helping people. I saw that she had a beautiful balance of home life as well as professional career, so that's what I was going to do. But then shortly after starting pharmacy school, I realized that retail pharmacy was not for me. We had some fellows come in.
I think it was probably my 3rd year in pharmacy school and talk about opportunities for pharmacists within the industry. That really opened my eyes. And they talked a lot about the role of BMSL, and I was so enamored by the the thoughts of combining my scientific acumen with my professional communication skills, networking, traveling, things like that.
So after pharmacy school, I was accepted into the 2 year medical affairs fellowship program with Bayer Healthcare, and this was through the Rutgers pharmaceutical industry fellowship program. And from there, I I focused those 2 years within field medical. So I did a little bit of time with medical communications, but I primarily was out and about with the MSLs. So, really, it just further solidified that that is what I was going to do.
So Mhmm. My fellowship program, I spent 7 years at a small biotech, a great company, Acorda Therapeutics, in a variety of roles. So I got to wear a lot of hats during that time. I was an MSL. I was a hybrid MSL trainer, so I ran the onboarding program. I also had the opportunity to be a lead for commercial sales training in collaboration with Field Medical. And then before I left, I spent some time as a regional manager at Acorda.
And right now, I've been with EMD for about 2 years in the field excellence role, and it's it's been incredible, Tom. And, we talk about I I know you and I have talked about before is taking risks and, you know, thinking outside the box around career. I serendipitously ended up in field excellence. I was not looking for field excellence. I I agreed a colleague had asked me if I'd be open to, an informational interview with EMD because this is a brand new role that they were looking to start.
So I took the risk. I took the interview, and it was just so exciting that I'd be able to use every skill set that I had honed in years past to really build something from the ground up. It was just a phenomenal growth and leadership opportunity, and I'm so happy that I took it because I love my job, and I have a phenomenal work family. You had a I mean, that's an amazing, like, career.
I mean, the the trajectory of what you just explained and what you just I mean, first of all, go going back, just to kinda unpack this a little bit. I mean, that having starting out in that fellowship must have been just a phenomenal stepping stone to get into industry. So I know a lot of people that are looking to break into the MSO role or looking to break in the pharmaceutical industry. Doing those fellowships, if you can get them, are huge. It opens so many doors.
I I mean, I can't tell me at times, even just on this podcast, you know, people explain how valuable they are. So, obviously, kudos on that. But you've done a lot. I mean, you've done a lot in a pretty, I mean, a pretty short period of time. Because what are you, like, 20 7 now? I I wish. No. But seriously and, medical excellence, just to kinda get to where you are now, that's so hot right now.
And I I I think there's probably a lot of people that don't fully understand exactly what medical excellence means. So if you can describe that a little bit, that'd be awesome. Sure. Let me let me give you the caveat by saying that I think field medical excellence is likely to look different from organization to organization because I've seen some job descriptions that, aren't exactly the same.
But in my role at EMD Serono as director of field excellence, I focus on really the art of being an MSL. Mhmm. I help the field medical team to develop those role specific competencies and functional skills. And as you know, like, my passion and my focus is on the soft skills and that professional acumen, the communication skills, the ability to, connect and develop rapport with others. That's really where where I focus on.
Yep. And because I think from what I can tell from my side, as a recruiter, I see a lot of different varieties of what field medical excellence might look like. I I think that there's not just one standard boiler plate type of job description for medical excellence.
And I think that with your experience in in medical excellence, and now with your experience in getting all these trainings on, you know, personal and professional development, it makes you totally equipped to build the MSL career, of the folks that you're responsible for. And that's how you and I started talking about individual development plans. Right? So what what are IDPs, and why are they important? In a nutshell, an IDP is essentially a career road map.
It's a way to assess where you are right now professionally, where you wanna go, and how to get there. A lot of times, MSLs have overarching career goals, but they have a much greater chance of success of actually achieving those goals if they have a strategic game plan, and an IDP is that plan.
I think personally that IDPs are so important because they help to focus in on clarifying developmental goals from both a short and long term perspective, so thinking maybe within 1 to 2 years and 2 to 5 years. They're also really strategic in planning.
So instead of wasting time taking courses or certifications that one MSL might think is applicable or might look good on a CV, well developed IDP can help strategically plan for those exact types of experiences or trainings that will set you up for success. Gotcha. Okay. And so can you tell me a little bit about how it works? So with in your role in medical excellence, is it a requirement, or is this something that's just extra that they can do on their own?
Or, like, how does it fit into the MSO like, in their how does it fit into their goals, and how does it fit into your goals? So our organization does require the employees to have individual development plans because they really do focus on, improving the skills of their people. So it is a requirement from an HR perspective, and we do have a phenomenal HR business partner that does give, a great overview of of driving your own development.
I am supportive in helping the MSLs to really flesh out their their goals. I work 1 on 1 with, with MSLs that they ask for support, in conjunction with management. And, we do a lot of, talking and coaching around self reflection and then diving into the specific goals and objectives and and activities that really align with what they they're looking to do. Yeah. And so it obviously is for anyone.
So Yep. So let's just say you have an MSL that has these great aspirations where they want to get promoted or they wanna get into management or leadership or medical excellence. IDPs are are great for for that individual, but what about the individual that just wants to be a career MSL? Like, obviously, they they might, like, how does that work? That's a great question, Tom. And and I get asked that question, all the time and not just from the greener MSLs.
Mhmm. EP does not need to focus on preparing for move into a different job or into a different role. It can absolutely focus on growth within your current role. So mastering specific MSL skills, learning new ones, different facets of the job. And if you think about how quickly things have changed the past couple of months because of COVID and and now how critical it is to being tech savvy. And IDP can include improving virtual engagement skills or becoming a Zoom engagement master, for example.
So it does not need to focus in on just getting promoted or a career transition. It can be improving in role competencies and skills. And another thing to point out is an IDP is a living document. So it's not just the one and done check the box. I really recommend that it's refreshed and reevaluated every 6 to 12 months. Interest capabilities, role opportunities, life situations change. So regular refreshes are are really critical.
Yeah. Totally. And I think it's important to have the open lines of communication with leadership to be able to for everyone to understand, you know, what your actual goals are and communicate that and be on the same page, and then have something to work towards, and, you know, and keep yourself honest and that sort of thing. So I think these are great. And so, like, how does somebody get started?
Like, where where does an MSL start with let's just say for argument's sake, an organization there's MSLs out there listening, and their organization doesn't really have this sort of process in place. How can they get started on their own? So before worrying about putting anything into a template or having anything too formal, I I would say a good first step would be to schedule that uninterrupted time and focus in on some self reflection to think about, 3 things, really.
Before worrying about goals or activities or anything like that, I recommend focusing and thinking about competence, passion, and organizational needs. So first, for example, thinking about competence, your current performance. Think about where your talents and your strengths are. What projects or activities do you really excel at? What competencies or skills are are areas that you can really sharpen or enhance?
And what type of activities or interactions do you feel unsure of or haven't gone as planned in the past? And then passion. So life's too short. It's not love what you're doing. So I encourage MSLs to think about what they really love doing, what types of activities do they get really excited by, What do they dislike doing within the role and why? What motivates them? What are they interested in? What do they wanna learn more about?
And then at a very high level, what their career aspirations are and what they're willing to invest. And then lastly, thinking about organizational need. What does the company need? Are there identify identifying any potential role gaps? So if field excellence doesn't exist at their organization and they see need for it, then think about, know, what type of roles do or do not exist that aligns with their particular interests. Got you.
Okay. So and when looking at when doing this this work, are you looking at it from, like, short term versus long term? Like, how to what's the time frame that someone's actually looking at as they create these as they create this plan? Is this, like, 10 years, 15 years? Is it No. So so I suggest focusing IBPs on short term goals. So first, within 1 or 2 years, and then long term goals within 3 to 5 years. But really not past 5 years at this point. That wouldn't be an IDT. Not past.
So this is like the old, you actually look to, like, where do you see yourself in 5 years? So you only go that far. When it when it comes to the process of an IDP, yes. It's it's great to have career aspirations and think about what you wanna do 10, 15, 20 years down the road. But anything after 5 years isn't practical for specific IDP purposes in my opinion.
Really, because it's it's difficult to craft very specific development plans for goals beyond 5 years because entirely new jobs or industries or roles may exist. Individual aspirations or life situations may change, and then it's possible to that the skills that we think are applicable to the job that we want in 10 years might be obsolete. Right? They might be a requirement or outdated in a decade. Yeah. No. Things change, and I think that it's great advice.
I think the short term is so important to direct, you know, how you go about being successful that year, what you're looking forward to the next year, and what might be beyond without going too far out. Yeah. And you're refreshing it every 6 to 12 months, so it's not something that that just stagnates. So you'll be keeping up with it, as your career progresses. Got you. Okay. So, I mean, that's great. And this is a great, like, foundation.
And, obviously, you did a great job explaining the the concept that what actually goes into it. If someone, like, really wants to get deep into it, walk me through that. Yeah. So so what I talked about was really the prework. That was the self reflection and the thought. But then part 2 would be defining specific goals, aligning them with learning objectives, and then thinking through specific developmental activities. I like to, think of it as why, what, and how.
And I'll explain that a little deeper. So the why is the specific goal or purpose. So, for example, it could be to get better within roles in MSL, to get promoted from MSL or senior MSL, or to transition into a different role. So from MSL, the scientific trainer or management position. That's the why. Then the what are the specific learning objectives, competencies, knowledge, skills that are needed for that, job enhancement, promotion, or different positions.
So these can be skills that an MSL already has, but they need to refine or sharpen a bit or skills or knowledge that they don't have at all, but they need in order to develop. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yep. I'm fine with it. Lastly is the how. So these are the specific developmental activities that align with each learning objective. So this is where that strategic plan in that planning that I mentioned earlier comes in. And this is where I I see a lot of MSLs get hung up.
They think that, these external courses or these formalized learning plans are really the the end all be all. But the vast majority of professional development, and this is across roles across industries, comes from on the job experience. You know, a lot of times, professional development opportunities are are right under our nose. Yeah. Let's talk about that because I think people get hung up on those, you know, get hung up on, you know, the activities.
And, you know, what are professional development activities, and, you know, what should people be focusing on? I mean, can you give us some examples? Yeah. Absolutely. So I'll give some examples, but keep in mind that it really the examples would have to align with with their objectives and their goals. But professional development opportunities for MSLs, aligned with what's called the 70, 20, 10 model.
And without getting too far into that, essentially, learning and development experts agree that 70% of development comes from on the job experience, 20% comes from learning from others, and then 10% comes from formal education and training.
So some specific examples of 70% on the job experience would be taking on a stretch project or a special assignment, serving as an MSL lead for congress planning, volunteering for a lead position, helping to organize MSL team meetings, mentoring a new MSL, really anything that is taking on work or additional responsibilities that are over and above the the, quote, unquote, usual MSL responsibilities.
Although, we all know we wear a lot of hats, but these type of things can really help to stretch and grow us. Got it. The 20% that social learning comes from learning from other people, things like shadowing a colleague in a different role that you may be interested in. So I always encourage my team to set up informal, informal informational interviews with colleagues and roles that they're interested in. Just get out there and network.
A formal rotation opportunity is excellent if your organization offers that. Or even it doesn't have to be medically focused at all to to be a development activity. Being an active contributing member to maybe a specialized employee network group or a committee, something like women in leadership or diversity group, and then also things like joining your local Toastmasters or or finding a a peer accountability buddy or working with a mentor or coach.
And then that last 10%, like I talked about, that formal learning, this could be as simple as getting a book on professional acumen or taking those excellent LinkedIn learning courses or it could be, skill enhancement workshops, webinars, scientific training certifications, things like that. So there there's really a world of development activities and opportunities out there.
And if these things that I mentioned don't exist at your organization, then I I really encourage people to suggest them, volunteer, you know, generate those new ideas. Would you say that a lot, like, a lot of this means you need to raise your hand? Like Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, do you there's this so 70% on the job experience, 20% social learning, 10% formal learning. But a lot of this requires the individual to take the effort to do this. It's this is a am I right about that?
You drive your own development, Tom. Yeah. You you usually don't get what you don't ask for, and there there are so many opportunities, to drive your own professional development. So, yes, I completely agree. Raise your hand to ask for it. This doesn't just happen. This this you need to really make this happen. Mhmm. So what about the manager's role? So how does the manager get involved and fit into this? Are they a part of it, and do they help drive it? Absolutely.
So a manager should really be a collaborative partner throughout the IDP process. There should always be ongoing two way communication around an MSL's goals and career aspirations, anyway. So not just when it's time to finalize the IDP or do the performance review. But I would say the MSL's responsibility is to first come up with a really solid draft of their IDP to do that self reflection, to to come up with what they think are their initial goals and, objectives and learning activities.
I also recommend that they sit down and maybe review it with a mentor or with a coach, somebody that can provide additional strategic guidance, and then have that formal sit down with their manager. But, it is critical that a manager is supportive and involved in the IDP process because they also wanna make sure they know the MSL's, performance and capabilities. Right? So they wanna make sure that the IBP is realistic and that it also aligns with the team and organization's needs.
So once it's finalized, then from there, a good manager knows what the MSL wants, the specific activities, and then can advocate for their people when those special opportunities, projects, etcetera, that are aligned with the IDP and then empower the MSL to put them into action. Yep. So you you mentioned so you mentioned mentor and coach, and that the whole mentorship discussion comes up a lot.
Yeah. So when we look at IDPs, does it make sense to seek out a mentor or coach, so that you have somebody to bounce this off of in addition to your manager? Is that part of this, would you say? It's a I would say that's a huge part of it. Yeah. So a manager, a mentor, a coach, all 3 can help clarify goals and brainstorm learning activities, but in in different ways. Thinking about mentorship, you don't have to have a mentor that's in the same role or even the same industry.
But when it comes to IDP planning, I think it is, it is important to have somebody who understands either your role or the role that you wanna get into. They're usually someone who's had that successful career, has been there, done that, and then can provide role modeling to the MSL around their IBP and offer very strategic, very specific guidance based on their experience. Professional coach, on the other hand, also does this but doesn't offer any guidance or advice.
So when an MSL works with a coach, it's it's useful if they feel stuck or they're unsure of what they wanna do, where they wanna go, or what skills they need to develop. So working with a coach, they can help to explore options, directions, perspectives, things like that that might not have been considered otherwise. Got you. So as I'm listening, you're you're using terms mentor, coach, adviser. So are there differences?
Or, like, how would you define the differences between, you know or are we just talking about the same thing? And and if so, how does that play into everything? Yes. You know what? That's a great question. Self admittedly, I thought that a coach and a mentor basically the same thing before I started my my journey to become a professional coach. Although I will say many times, a strong mentor knows when to use coaching skills, but they are different roles with having very different benefits.
So both coaches and mentors help others work towards their goals, and really help big time with accountability. The biggest difference is a mentor may tell you what to do, provide very specific guidance based on their previous experiences, whereas a coach asks you what you wanna do, what you think you should do. They have no agenda other than helping the people they work with to achieve their goals and can really help to to brainstorm.
Like I said, if an MSL feels challenged or or stuck or unsure. So I it's funny because I this comes up a lot as well, and and people ask me, you know, should I hire a professional coach, you know, or a leadership coach, let's just say. What are your thoughts on that? I mean, what are the benefits and and why would somebody do that or why wouldn't they do it? Yeah. That's the the beauty of coaching is that it really is a partnership. The coach has no agenda other than helping helping you excel.
And I think the important thing is the strategies and solutions that are found when you work with a coach are based on your experience, your desire, your interests. You'll definitely if you work with a coach, you'll gain a great sense of self awareness, goal clarity, gain new insight, or look at things from a different perspective.
So, really, anything you dream of, I tell the people I work with, is possible if you're willing and ready to put into the work, put in the put in the work of that process. Yeah. Well and, again, I think if we're looking at people that are looking to develop their career, they're developing individual development plans, they obviously care. They want to do well. They want to succeed. They want to potentially maybe get a promotion. So I think it makes sense.
It it makes sense to seek the advice of a professional to help you get there. Not to take anything away from folks that are, on the leadership, you know, MSL managers and, and medical excellence folks. But I I do think that I mean, let's look at it. All of the best athletes and and, you know, most highly trained I mean, look at, you know, Michael Jordan and Michael Phelps, the most decorated Olympian, I use this this this example all the time, had coaches throughout their careers.
So why shouldn't we? Right? It makes sense. Yeah. It's it's certainly an empowering and enlightening process to work with a coach. And what's interesting is that the coach doesn't have to have had any experience in the industry or the MSL role. They don't have to be a subject matter expert like a consultant or like a mentor when it when you're thinking about IDP, but they are the expert in the coaching process and Right.
Definitely help without tremendously without that firsthand knowledge of of what the MSO role is. So, yeah, I would I would definitely, suggest it. So as, you know, as a medical excellence leader, as a coach, and as, you know, someone who is who's constantly helping others, what are you seeing right now? What skills are most important for MSLs right now? I mean, obviously, we're we're still in the middle of this whole COVID thing, and we are also looking into the future.
Like, so what what's your advice for folks right now? Yeah. I'm thinking about the two most obvious challenges that MSLs are are dealing with during COVID. One is extremely limited access to the HCPs. So this is COVID or no COVID access is is always something that's challenging for MSLs. And then the second thing would be difficulty in developing true human connection and building rapport and really deep relationships in a virtual environment.
But I do not think that this virtual environment is going away anytime soon or in some cases at all. So thinking about what skills are most critical, I wouldn't say that they're new skills at all, but rather enhancing those critical soft skills that the strongest MSLs exemplify anyway. So active listening, strategic questioning, emotional intelligence, and empathy. And then thinking about in the midst of a pandemic, I think cross functional collaboration is also so critical.
HCPs have a lot going on right now with their practices. There's multiple representatives from companies trying to knock at the same HCP door. So if you can find a way to compliantly work together with cross functional partners in a really smart, but HCP centric way, I would say that that would serve serve the MSLs really well. Yep. Yeah. Totally. That's great advice. And this was great. I mean, this whole conversation was amazing because I gotta be honest with you.
I'm self admittedly had really no idea what an individual development plan was. I just kinda you know, I almost, like I don't know. I almost went when we first started talking about it, I was like, is this just a performance review that No. Yeah. So well, if if there's any confusion, like, what would you say just in case people are thinking that?
And I I know now that it's not, but but what's what would you say the difference is, and how could someone use the individual development plan versus their performance review and vice versa? Oh, absolutely. So IDPs are not performance reviews. Performance reviews really are retrospective.
I'm thinking about, your achievements of past years and hitting those annual goals, whereas IDPs are focusing on the future, your future plans, leveraging strengths, talents, developing new skills for upcoming years. They can go together that they're very separate but related conversations and that they complement each other.
Insight that you have from your performance reviews and then other feedback that you've received from your managers, your peers, your mentors can help you to understand specific areas that you excel in and well as areas for development. So they can help you to further develop your IDP and think about areas you wanna focus on. But, no, an IDP is not the same as a performance review, and it should not be treated as such.
Yeah. And I feel like what you one of the I think the most important things you said was it's a living document. Yes. It's it's like it's kind of almost like your CV or your resume. Like, you you need to have it. You need to keep it up to date, or you need to at least have a version that you can update if and when it comes time to make a move. But it's the same thing with an IDP.
Obviously, the the sooner you create 1 and hold yourself accountable and work towards it, development and build it, seek out other advice, it's gonna take you there. It it's Yeah. It's a road map. And and like a lot of other things, you get out what you put in. If you treat it as a HR is requiring it, I'm gonna check the box and get it done, then it's not gonna be very valuable.
But if you set up dedicated uninterrupted time to focus on it, to do that that thorough self reflection and forward thinking of what you want and you have a really meaningful IDP that is kept refreshed, then then you're have a much greater chance of of actually achieving those goals, and it's gonna be more meaningful. Awesome advice. That's great stuff. So what's any last minute advice or, you know, anything you wanna tell either MSLs or MSL leaders out there as it relates to all this stuff?
Yeah. You know what? 2 things come to mind when when thinking about wrapping this up around development. And one is the only way you grow is by taking risks and trying different things. So it's really important to get comfortable with the uncomfortable. In fact, even though it sounds crazy, I encourage MSLs to seek out opportunities, raise their hand for things that they're not a 100% sure that they're gonna be good at, that they there might be a really steep learning curve.
So if you lean into that discomfort without worrying about am I good enough, am I gonna fail, you you really might be pleasantly surprised and find a passion or or a a new strength that you might have not have other realized if you just stayed in that safe zone. I wouldn't have been in field excellence if if not for taking that risk and and leap of faith into a potential, a potential role that that I didn't know about when I when I actually joined.
Yeah. And then I I think my last piece of advice would be, it's okay to be a career long MSL. I it's better than okay. MSL roles, amazing job. So many benefits. But it's not okay to stagnate in the role. There's always ways for an MSL to upscale. Even if they've been doing it for 30 years and they don't think that there's ways that they can improve, then I would recommend a course in self awareness and perhaps hiring a professional coach. Yeah. But always focus on development and and upskilling.
Elaine, you're the best. Awesome. Best. Awesome advice. I love it. I learned a lot, and, I know everybody else did. So you're gonna have to come back. I'm gonna have to, like we're gonna have to figure out that there's gonna we're gonna put together a series, I think, because you, you're you're so good at this. So thank you. Thank you. I'm waiting for a television show, Tom. Let's do it. We're gonna go. Tropical. Thanks again, Elaine. We'll talk soon. Thanks for coming on. Thanks for having me.
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