Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Greg Kristofferson. He is vice president of medical affairs at Medline, and we talk about how to build a modern medical affairs organization. Great conversation. I think you guys are going to love it. As a reminder, don't forget to sign up for. Mass West, the medical affairs strategic summit west by fierce pharma. It is in San Diego, September 25th 26th. Always, always an amazing conference. I would love to see you guys there.
You can get more details by going and just Googling Mass West 2024. Registration is open. Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Greg. Welcome to the podcast. How are you doing, buddy? Good. Thanks for having me. Guys, I'm I'm excited. So Greg and I actually met at a MAPS conference. I think it was, like, last year, maybe about a year ago in Chicago.
And, he was speaking, and then Sarah Snyder on my team, she was part of a panel. Actually, I think she was part of your panel, Greg, if I'm not mistaken. But, anyway, so Greg and I got to to know each other and talk a little bit. And here we are, like, a year later, and I'm excited to share him with you because he's awesome. So, Greg, why don't you do a quick intro? Yeah. Yeah. Happy to. Thanks for having me, 1st and foremost.
Love to to get together and chat about all things medical affairs and beyond. Name's Greg Kristoffson, vice president of medical affairs for MEDLINE, which includes, clinical research. MEDLINE is a, not necessarily well known sometimes, but enormous health care suppliermanufacturer, about 35,000 people, 20,000,000,000 in business and rising every year. So we have a very basic portfolio of medtech. I grew up as a scientist and a Midwest guy, originally.
Studied biomedical engineering at, Michigan Tech University. Realized that maybe being first and foremost in health care wasn't really what I wanted to do, but I love making things for people and and, you know, just influencing the health care environment. So went and got my PhD at Johns Hopkins, worked at the NIH for my postdoc, and there I was working with wounded soldiers from Iraq and Afghanistan, and really got this bug for translational medicine and translational research.
So I started my industry career at Lifecell working with cadaveric tissue for reconstructives and tissue engineering applications. Started doing a lot of medical affairs without knowing those medical affairs, a lot of scientific education, medical education, bioskills labs, KOL development, but always as a scientist.
Allergan bought Lysel for the plastic surgery portfolio, really got a a feel for kind of pharma at that point as part of it, led some very cross functional r and d teams focused on kind of the existing portfolio and how it interacted with clinics. And then was headhunted about 6 years ago for by Medline to really create their medical affairs program from scratch and kind of modernize the clinical research program as part of that.
So, fun little journey all throughout, definitely the scientist perspective, but, realized that I like working with people and working directly with the health care community. So it's kind of been just the way my career has gone. Yeah. Well, I'm excited to get to share you because, guys, Greg's he's being very humble, but he's got a tremendous background, and he's built a lot. And he comes from a a little bit of a different perspective.
It's a combination of medical affairs and r and d, and and he has you know, knows the commercial side really well rounded. So when we were talking about topics to discuss on this on this episode, I saw something he's I don't know if he said it or if he wrote it, but it was something about modernizing medical affairs, how to modernize a medical affairs. And I'm like, wow. Like, I that's it. Like, let's let's talk about that.
So to start, like, what would be the components of a modern medical affairs organization? Yeah. You know, I think the biggest thing is it's integrative. You know, everybody's gonna have different views on where medical affairs started and how long. But to me, I always think of traditional medical affairs, like, 20 years ago, where they were the people that were brought in to really talk about data to clinicians. And that's still a huge part of what we do, right, data analysis and dissemination.
But it used to be pretty small functions, used to be kind of stand alone. We used to get our walking orders often from, marketing or the CMO. And since then, I think there's been this, groundswell of appreciation from the health care community and the industry side of things to understand that they're more than just mouthpieces of of clinical data. Really, a good medical affairs program should be highly integrative and embedded within the institution.
So not just looking internally, but also externally at this point as a good partner for health care systems. Patient centricity is something you'll hear a lot about. I think that stemmed completely from medical affairs. But it's even more than that, just understanding the strategy of the company, what the clinical gaps are, identifying these things, being more of a consultative partner for your research teams, for your clinical development teams, for your commercial teams.
You know, I think there's this critical element of non promotional activity that's always steered the way that we try to interact with the healthcare community. But I think we understand now that it's much broader than just being outward. There's a lot of inward facing elements. So I think a There's a lot of inward facing elements. So I think a modern medical affairs program needs to be very integrative. And I think there's versatility that comes with that.
We have to think in different ways that perhaps we didn't before. We have to understand what the pain points are for our colleagues internally and then also externally. Because this non promotional element is very critical for us, both from a foundational perspective with regulatory agencies, but also from the expectations of what we get when we interact with surgeons and physicians and hospital C suites.
So I think there's the entire world of health care has changed a lot, and I think the components that have changed play very well to the needs of something that exists in medical affairs. It's kind of a loaded question. I I just realized after I asked it, like, I hit you with this, like, really broad question. Jump right into it. Tell me. Right off the bat. Like, it wasn't even like, hey. So, you know, there's no build up. We just kinda went right through it. It's like, okay, guys. Show's over.
Yep. That's it. We're good. We did it. Hypo. No. I mean, I think that's a great start. I think it's important to have an understanding and an overview, as we talk about this this idea of of what it takes to build out, what it takes to modernize, because there's so much that goes into it. And I think things have really evolved. Medical affairs has definitely evolved, and there's been a lot of recent changes. So can you talk about the evolution that you've seen in medical affairs?
And you can you talk about some of the recent changes that you've seen? Yeah. I mean, I think I'm a a perfect example of it, you know, kind of I touched on in my background. But when I was at Lifecell, which was a very small company competing against very big companies, in the acellular dermal matrix space, really revolutionized, reconstructive, breast reconstruction following breast cancer mastectomy.
It was bioskills labs were a huge component of that because it's a very technique reliant, aspect. They're expensive in nature. I mean, you know, back, when I was there, a sheet of alaniram would cost $10,000 to $20,000 depending, you know, per treatment. And this was something where surgeons had to know how to use it correctly because vascularity was an enormous part of the process. And skills were changing over time.
Surgeons are very creative, so we would be partnering with them as part of r and d. And so with that, a big way that lifestyle kind of came to dominate the market was being first and foremost education piece and being reactive with all these insights we would get back from these surgeons during labs. So we would continue to evolve the product portfolio to match their needs.
And at the same time, we make sure they were using the product properly and also explaining what the real differences were between things that maybe sounded the same when a salesperson or a marketing piece would talk about them. And to me, that was I was doing all those medical affairs without even knowing those medical affairs. Right? I was just a scientist that liked to go out there and geek out about, hey.
Here's the data about it, and how do you use it, and what are your pain points, and understanding what your perspective is on this. And so I think from particularly from the medtech perspective, there's been a lot of groups that have been doing these aspects of medical affairs. And some companies have been doing it very well, and other companies have maybe been fumbling a little bit with it.
There's no standardization of medical affairs like there is kind of with a lot of, like, quality regulatory programs or, you know, sales marketing. It's kind of very piecemeal depending on the company. And I think we've seen this evolution in the space where we start to see the best practices really coming together. You know, you start to see some certifications that are being done by some of these third parties. You see professional organizations that are coming together.
And one of the big offshoots of that is having people start not to have a like mindedness, but to see how are my peers doing it. And the good ones adapt that appropriately to their organization because every company has different needs. But I think, intrinsically, medical affairs does certain aspects of them better than, you know, a marketing team does or, obviously, than a sales team does, even than a clinical team might.
So, you know, even the nomenclature of these things, I think, is starting to become a little bit more standardized. I remember when I first started, you would see 10 different titles that all meant MSL. Mhmm. And and it was confusing. It was confusing both from a talent perspective. It was confusing for our partners in the health care systems. And even there's a huge education that's occurred over time.
So even commercially, most people that I talk to now, when you say medical affairs, they understand, at least on some level, what medical affairs is. You know, it's not just, oh my gosh, the compliance arm of the organization. It's somebody who can come in and really talk to things in a different way, have different relationships, provide value. Because, really, this all comes down to medical affairs. We know we're a revenue eater. Right? But we're a value generator.
Mhmm. And so it's about helping, both internally and externally understand what is that value and where does it come from. And I think that's where the big evolution has come from. I think that people can team much more effectively with it. They have trust in what the part of the organization is. I don't think there's as much skepticism internally and externally around what medical affairs is. It's not just commercial light.
There is this entire value proposition that's brought that everyone I've ever talked to on the surgical side really appreciates. But it's really been helping our internal colleagues, particularly on the commercial side, understand that as well. And I think just from what you're saying, I like, when you say that there's there's no real standard, and we talk about that all the time on this on this show. There's no standardization of medical affairs.
It's like everybody's doing things a little bit differently in different ways, calling MSLs different things. Seems like we're kinda settling in on the term medical science liaison, although there's still plenty of organizations that call them different things. Yes. And now the role's evolving. So now we have all different varieties of medical science liaisons in different areas, which is great, by the way. That this is in no way not.
But I think for the purpose of this conversation, I think it's, it becomes challenging as people are listening. Like how can medical affairs purposefully build out in this specific type of landscape we're in today's climate? Yeah. And that's the that's the key to it. I think number 1, for anybody who is in a management part of an organization or even just trying to interact with that leadership, there's more resources than ever.
I laugh because I remember I I've been a long time member of the Medical Affairs Professional Society. You mentioned MAPS, kind of the meeting we met at back in the shadow of O'Hare Airport even a year ago. And when I first started there, my first meeting was 5 years ago in Miami. And we had, 1 or 2 different symposiums for medical for med tech specifically. And there were literally 5 people in the room. Right? And and half of them were us as the lecturers.
So and at the recent, meeting in Puerto Rico, we had, I think, like, 50 or 60 people in the room that was busting out the seams. So there's a bigger ecosystem than ever. But I was part of the the leadership group for one of the FOGs. I lead the mentorship group. And we laugh at how many colleagues we have now that are in medical affairs, particularly for med tech, that weren't there before.
So I think there's a bigger community to lean on The resources at that website and then also with MAS and some others are are just incredible. So you actually have things you can go to, and you're not flying blind. That's kinda number 1. So I I laugh when you say, yeah. We have a lot of other titles coming out again. Right? It's splintering again. The great thing about that is there's specificity to it, and it's deliberate.
So we really have these these niche needs where we're creating specific titles to differentiate what our experts could do. Right? So whereas before, I think we're all just kinda like, name them something that I'd say will sound fancy. Right? But put clinical or or medical or education or something in there. Now I think there's there's actual intent to to those different kind of splinter groups and roles.
So it's really differentiating what's become a more complex organization and recognizing that an MSL is not an MSL is not an MSL. Right? You're gonna have different levels of it. And so when people go about to your other part of your question, for when they go about really building that, it's important to, in my mind, realize that there's still not a one way of doing things.
Mhmm. You need to be very intentional, especially with a group that is always gonna be never be able to point to sales numbers or not gonna be able to really have concrete value metrics around things like insights or, you know, health care population increase, outcomes. Those things are always really squishy and hard to identify the value of. So it's very important on the front end to make sure that you're resourcing in places of greatest need.
One thing I've always talked about, we've we've had a few different times where we've talked about building a med tech function. I've helped teach some master classes. And the thing that I always say is don't worry as much about what you wanna do organizationally. Worry about what your organization needs. And that may seem really simple, but it's very important to keep in mind.
Because if you're trying to do these things that other people have seen value from in their organization, it might not fit your portfolio. Right? Medline, for example, I think literally has over 500,000 SKUs. It has and and it has hundreds and thousands of products that my teams would support. And my needs are gonna be entirely different than somebody who's gonna be at a very late stage startup or like daVinci. You know? It's gonna be, and particularly in the pharma space.
So it's very important to be intentional about your resources so that you're using them intelligently as you build those relationships across the organization. So don't worry about what you think a medical affairs organization should be. Really look at the needs of your organization, build it intentionally, and figure out where you can get inroads to really build relationships across, the different organization.
I think you'll hear people start to talk about medical affairs as, like, a third strategic pillar, right, or a 4th pillar depending on how you do your organization, where you have your r and d, your clinical group, you have your commercial group, and then medical affairs is kind of that connective tissue for the rest of it. So I think really to be a pillar and stand up pretty strong, you R and D creates things. It's very obvious when they are successful. Commercial sells things.
It's very obvious when they're successful. Medical affairs, it's a little more difficult. So you have to be very intentional about working with the other groups, appropriately. And that goes back to the integrative piece of what I was talking about for modern medical affairs. You really can't stand alone. And there's so much now from beginning to end. We used to be just an outward facing part of the organization in my mind.
You know, even I remember medical affairs as the way it was always described, the medical face of a company, the outward clinical face of a company. And now I think that's a disservice, so that's all it is. Really, you should be bringing so many things back. You should be talking about things within your r and d development groups, everything around medical safety. Different components may live different places depending on how mature your organization is.
For for Medline, medical affairs for me included clinical operations, clinical affairs, medical education, medical science liaisons, a biostatistics group. And those are all things that we created for the most part while I was there because those were organizational needs. So it's it's important to be intelligent with how you apply your resources to to get those easy wins, get those early wins so you can create a more mature organization later.
You know, win where you need to now, create value where you need to now, not necessarily where, like, the best in practice medical affairs organization should be. Yeah. And when you look at so you look at those complexities, and it, you know, brings me back to the MSL and the and the the medical affairs professionals themselves.
So what would you say would be, like, required or essential skills that would be crucial for MSLs and medical affairs professionals to succeed in in a modern in this modern world that we're in? Yeah. There's a couple of traits that are vital. I think 1 number 1, you have to be honest with yourself. Just because you have a technical background or you have a degree, it doesn't mean you're really you're set to be an MSL. MSLs are this very, very cool role. MSL is a fun role, right?
You get to talk about science and clinic with everybody. You get to just like, nerd out and round it. You get to help physicians and practitioners and patients. Like, you're adding value, and and equity to the health care system. But you still get to use all that technical education, and you don't have to sell things. But it's not easy to be good at. You have to be personable. You have to enjoy making relationships. You have to enjoy a little bit of the grind as well.
It's not a grind in the way that a salesperson is a grind. But you're still gonna face rejection. I mean, we talk about ourselves as being nonpromotional, but go and talk to the average physician or surgeon and ask them, are we nonpromotional? And they're gonna have a slightly different view of it. Right? When you're wearing a company emblem, you still represent the company, and that's a good and a bad and it's a good and a difficult thing. So I think it's important to know yourself.
Are you really set to be an MSL? Because there's a lot of other career paths, that that honestly probably aren't as, difficult to get into as MSLs are right now either. You have to be able to talk about data. You have to be comfortable in front of big groups, small groups individually. You do have to have this kind of technical and clinical understanding and have an ability to distill things and communicate them in an easy to understand fashion. You have to be able to work with generations.
You know, when you look at a health care system, you have people in their mid to late twenties all the way up to their sixties seventies that are practicing health care in different realms. You have to be able to communicate with all of them kind of on their page. And so that's not an easy thing to do. So I think step number 1 is just being kind of honest with yourself. Like, do you fit that standard?
Because if you come into an interview with me and you think you're social and you think you're extroverted and you think you have all this clinical knowledge, and I'm kinda like, dude, I wouldn't I wouldn't put you in front of people that I I value and whose relationships I I need. A step beyond that, though, I would say is is having a versatility.
And this is this comes down to the wonderful thing about medical affairs expanding is your background, if you want if you're looking to be an MSL or continue as an MSL, there's a lot of different places it could be. You know, we talk about PharmDs, PhDs, obviously, MDs. But even master's degrees, nurses, every single MSL we've hired at at Medline is a nurse because that's our portfolio. That's the peer to peer interaction. They work great in teams. They're used to project based work.
They're used to very collaborative environments. You have to be a communicator. And I think we talk a little bit about technology sometimes too, but those are things you can learn and be comfortable with. It's the hardest part is really thinking that first role, and that's where you kinda just have to have a doggedness. You know, you have to you have to have a faith in yourself and a patience. I know you've you've written a wonderful book about finding your dream job. Right?
And, there's a big part in there about you really have to go get it, and you have to be deliberate about it, and you have to have you have to be willing to fail because you're gonna get told no a lot more times. You have to kinda have this intrinsic desire to really go for that role and and push for that role. And when you do have it, man, it can be a lot of fun. I would never tell anybody to do something different.
I was an MSL without knowing I was an MSL, factoring with kind of my Allergan lifestyle days, and it was it was a blast. There's, usually, you have to travel, but nothing's universal with you, which is great. I think, like I said earlier, there's been an expansion of the different types of medical affairs and the different roles, titles notwithstanding. And so there is kind of a fit for everybody. I think it's just important to know what do you do well and what do you not do well.
And the things you can improve on, speaking to audiences, you know, there's there's an old but wonderful book by Dale Carnegie about, you know, making friends and influencing people. I would I'd recommend anybody start there if they're just looking for the basic constructs of how do I go and communicate with people that I don't know anything about to start with. And then everything else normal to it, like preparation and and staying on top of data.
Those are all just kinda good long standing traits to have. But I think determination is number 1. And then number and biggest thing is just being honest with yourself. Is this a role that fits you, or should you look somewhere else in that medical affairs ecosystem? Yeah. Well, I'll tell you. There's there's definitely especially in this in this day and age, there's a lot to think about because it hasn't the role and and I agree with you.
You know, being in the profession and working with MSLs every day, talking to MSLs, great job in the world, but it can be really difficult too. So if you're not honest with yourself, a lot of people become MSLs, and then they're like, oh my god. Wait. Like, I I'm having trouble with access, and I'm having trouble with this, and no one prepared me for this. So I think it's important to really understand the role, research the role, have some conversations with people that are in the role.
Or if you are currently an MSL and you're struggling with different things, like you said, there's so many resources available, including this podcast and including my book. And I I try to do the best that I can to share resources through this medium and and others, because there's so many people that are out there looking and and in need of help.
So I think that being a, being honest, but also taking that initiative and taking action to get yourself better and, and to to, you know, level up in your skills is as important as anything else. So I wanna get back to something you said before because as you were describing, the modern organization, you you talked a lot about the different departments. And I know that that can be challenging for medical affairs navigating through cross collaboration with different departments departments.
So what have you seen 6 how how, you know, medical affairs can successfully foster collaboration with other departments? I think it's the same key as every relationship building. Think of departments as people because you're often working with department heads or or or team leads. Listen, number 1. Don't come to them saying you need something or I want this. Come to them and say, how can I help you? Right?
I think all of this when we we tune out, if we if somebody comes to me and tells me about the things that they need. So what we do often like to do is tell them what we could get, what we could use from them. So education is usually a big part of that because if you're a newer medical affairs organization or new to an organization, even as a new person there, they may not know what you do really. They may have somewhat of a nebulous idea.
People know more about medical affairs now on a level than they did before, like, 10, 15 years ago. But it's it's usually still kind of a great part of the organization for a lot of people, especially if they've been established for a long time and didn't have medical affairs. So come with a simple explainer of who you are and what you can do for them. Right? And bring ideas to the table of here's how I feel like we could help you and your part of the organization.
Here's where you've been successful in different parts I've been. You know, we've been really good at helping with clinical education of sales personnel, for example. That's non promotional. There's nothing great about that whatsoever. I would love to help educate, you know, your marketing team on on vascular access, right, on orthopedics, on mechanism of action of our drug, whatever it may be. So bring something to the table and then get shared initiatives.
The more shared initiatives you can have, the more you have that commonality with different groups. One, it gives you a touch point to build relationships with them over time. It also gives them a way to assess you and have something tangible that they can hold accountability for. So let's say medical affairs said they were gonna do this, and they did this. You know, they were there's a a lot of terms, like in the foxhole, all these other things. Right?
But really just comes down to making a human connection with your counterparts in those departments. Medical affairs, I think, for instance, for me, when I started in MEDLINE, we were under the legal organization, Sister Compliance. We were very much a compliance arm of MEDLINE. And we had to find a way to not make that identify us because people are gonna run away from compliance. Sorry to all my compliance colleagues. I love you, but that's just organizational that it usually ends up.
So you have to talk about what are your pain points, how can I help, here's how I think I can help you? And then the other part will come with that. They'll come back to you over and over again if you establish a value with that, and they show that that you could be relied on.
And I always think about when I was, back when in my r and d days at lifestyle and I would go out, I would often go and do, shadowing of surgeons that were doing new techniques or, were willing to trial kind of some of our products in, you know, in an ex vivo kind of fashion. And the salespeople were always initially very uneasy because they didn't know me. This was a huge relationship for them.
They were told they had to take me out somewhere because their boss was telling the head of sales was saying, take this guy out and go do it. And over time, it actually became right when I would land, they'd be excited to see me. They'd pick me up because they they realized I was having conversations with people that were very important to them that were adding value. Right? I wasn't selling anything. I wasn't even talking about selling anything.
But I was going and having clinical, technical conversations and stimulating conversations. Their surgeons would be be happy when I'd be coming in because I cared about what they were doing and wanted to learn from them. So these things take time. It's important to have patience. But I think you start with, what can I do for you? Here's how I think I can help.
And then let's put a few things where our teams have shared initiatives and work closely together, and then it's every other team building thing from there. Awesome. That's a question that that I think that's an issue that comes up a lot. So I'm glad to hear your perspective on it. The other thing that and I mentioned this before.
And another thing that comes up a lot is as we look at this, you know, modern medical affairs department build out is how to get more FaceTime, how to get more access, how to show more value, how to bring back better insights. So can you talk about the KOL engagement strategy piece as it relates to some of the organizations you've been involved in and as you see it in this modern environment?
Yeah. I I have never been fortunate enough to have some kind of, really fleshed out system of insight sharing across organizations. I think that's typical. Right? I think if you are part of an organization where you do have this really refined insights network, that's fantastic. Don't take it for granted. And and once again, it goes back to specificity. Right? What's your institution like? What kind of insights do you need? How easy is it to share?
How much do they trust your medical affairs organization? Are you starting from scratch, or are you fully established and they look to you to bring a voice to the table? You have to take all these things into account because you need to know where to start. I think the most critical part of insights, which I know is a very generic term, but voice of of user is kind of the way I think of it or voice of the patient, is what insights is your organization really looking for?
What are they already getting from certain places that you're just gonna kinda be copying work? Duplicity is never useful for anybody. It can be nice to say, oh, yes. I've also heard that. Great. Now we feel like we have a a groundswell of information to the point that we can trust it. But realistically, are you supposed to be bringing something more clinical back that isn't captured otherwise? Are you bringing off label aspects back?
Are you using are you the one that first hears about people that are using, example, devices in new ways, in off label ways, in investigational ways? Do you have a grants program or an IIS program that you're part of? So I I think it's important to once again focus on not how does medical affairs do it when you go to a conference and you see somebody present, like, how I would talk about it or somebody, you know, from a really large pharma company or AbbVie or somebody would talk about it.
How does your organization need insights? And then specifically gear yourself to set it up, what you're gonna be bringing back, how you're gonna be bringing it back, and to who. You know, is this something where you wanna bring it back to the sales leadership and then go back to sales? Does it bring it to upstream marketing? Are you going to r and d? Are you part of product development? Hopefully, all these things.
And then I think it's about developing personal relationships, if possible, between the people that are gathering those insights and the ones that need to hear them. Eventually, if you're a really big organization, you have a great infrastructure, you can have a more of a informal way of doing these things and putting them through a system and capturing them and spitting them out. You can do social listening as part of all this. You know, it really depends on the complexity.
But for my for my organization, it's always been more, hey. This this surgeon's seeing a lot of issue with quality control. Right? Like, the the tissue the aluminum tissue they're getting in has it's weird. It's got moles now. It's got stretch marks. You know? For Medline, it's more and more along the lines of, yeah, they're having super, nasty issues with the pressure aspects of this external catheter. You know, things that maybe the Salesforce can't catch.
So that's where you have to be very diligent about not bringing back information that's not useful because then you're gonna look at what are you doing with your time. So spend a little bit time more upfront around what kind of insights do does your organization, does the leadership feel like would be useful? What do they wanna hear from you?
If they wanna hear about, you know, new areas of of research interest that they can develop new products for, if they wanna hear about current products you're doing. Doing. And then create a strategy with your team from that and create a schedule of how you're gonna share them back. So don't be nebulous with it. Try to be very specific. You know?
If you talk with your commercial team and they say, we just launched this new product, We don't really know how it's gonna be received by orthopedic surgeons. K. Great. You have a few call points that, hopefully, your MSLs, for instance, whenever your relationships with, they can go and ask them in a very high technical level. Like, how is it? What are your outcomes looking like? Like, you know, what's your what's the patient satisfaction?
Have that very highly clinical technical conversation that, you know, salespeople and marketing people probably won't be able to have. Although, you know, by all means, don't kinda cut their legs out either. Some of them are extremely capable people, so lean into that, or you can too. And then have, like, a meeting set up where you're gonna bring that back and what you're gonna bring back, and then adapt. Right? That's the other part that I think we fall into sometimes.
Make a plan, adapt your plan. So you bring it back. You bring insights. Were those insights valuable? What was valuable about them? What would the cadence be? How should we communicate them? Who should we communicate them to? And then adapt your strategy.
I think you'll see if you involve your counterparts that are using these insights, whether that's in your research realm, your commercial realm, whatever it may be, if they're helping fine tune your strategy and bring it back, you'll just gain more goodwill across the organization, and your insights will become more valuable. And you'll be spending your time in a way that isn't just spinning wheels. Awesome. You heard it here, folks. That's really great advice. Greg, thank you, my friend.
I I well, let's leave it at that because I think that's a great way to go out. And, this was an awesome conversation. I'm glad that we had a chance to finally do this. And, guys, if you got value out of this, please share it with others. Appreciate your support of this show, and we will see you next time. Thanks again, Greg. Thank you so much for listening to the show.
And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future, and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.