Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Sarah Snyder. Sarah is a medical affairs recruiter on my team here at the Carolyn Group. And the topic that we're going to discuss is how job seekers can stand out in a crowded market. So it's a very timely conversation. This was actually brought up by request. So I'm hoping you guys like it and get a lot of value out of it. If so, please share it with your friends and colleagues.
Don't forget to check us out on MSL talk live, which we do monthly, and that's on the LinkedIn live platform. So check out my LinkedIn for announcements, and we look forward to seeing you there. Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Sarah. Welcome back. Thanks for joining me today. Hi, Tom. Good morning. Hi. Alright, guys. So interesting. Let me give you a little backstory about this this episode here.
So last week, we recorded MSL talk live, and we it was actually the same conversation. It was, you know, how job seekers can stand out in a crowded market. We had a great group. It was a panel discussion, with Julie Chen and with Dave Kriesel and with Sarah. Unfortunately, we were gonna try to use that recording for this week's episode. But we had technical difficulties. And there was just for whatever reason, there's a lot of feedback, and it just didn't work out.
So Sarah and I decided we're the important so topic and timely right now that we decided to recreate it. So that's what we're doing here. So Sarah and I are gonna talk about how you guys can stand out if you're a job seeker and what are some of the things that you need to do. Now granted, you can still go back and watch that on LinkedIn, that MSL talk live episode. But I hopefully, we can give you some additional practical advice, in this conversation today.
So, Sarah, let's start with what are you seeing on the market right now? Yeah. It's such a good question. It's a very interesting market for sure. I think we're seeing a high volume of job seekers for sure. There's a lot of people that are laid off, and some of them had been searching for the right fit for quite some time. So I would say that the volume was up and the level of anxiety over job seeking is up.
There's definitely more than more people than ever that want to break into the industry as well. So no matter what stage you are as far as entering the industry or very high up in the industry, I think, you know, overall, the whole market is a market where job seekers are looking for positions more than ever. Yeah. Yeah. What do you think? I mean, I don't know. I feel like I get calls every day more than ever. You know, I got laid off. I had this happen. Like, what do you think is causing this?
Where where's this coming from? Yeah. I'm seeing the same thing, and, obviously, we're in in the pharmaceutical industry, we're all having the same conversation. It's like, what's going on? Why are we why why are we getting hit with such a down market? And, because we came from a place of abundance, and there were so many opportunities and job seekers were getting calls from recruiters every day.
And now there's there's not just massive layoffs that are affecting, affecting people in their different functions, but we're seeing a lot of people in talent acquisition and recruiters and people on the staffing side that are all getting laid off because there's lack of opportunity. So it's there's oh, this is is pretty far reaching. And I think the reason that the pharmaceutical industry is going through this at this time partly is because of the inflation reduction act.
That's one of the things that has had a huge effect on the pharmaceutical industry because in the IRA is language, is is legislation that is going to affect pricing and how the pharmaceutical industry is going to be able to price their products. And there's there's a lot of controls in there. So that's creating uncertainty. You know, companies aren't sure what the future is gonna look like.
It also might have an effect on r and d. The other piece that is affecting all industries, is that the cost of money is so much higher now than it was a few years ago. So when you look at the biotech industry, for example, something that we've seen, huge opportunities come from, the funding has dried up. There's not a you know, the the amount of VCs that are out there that are that have the funds to be able to, to to support companies that are that are trying to launch drugs is is much less.
So we're now seeing pressure on large pharma through the IRA, pressure on small pharma and biotechs because of the cost of funds and the cost of of of borrowing money, which is affecting everybody, even even large pharma is affected with that. So, like, those things have had a profound effect, and now you're seeing layoffs. So now, Sarah, you're probably like you said, you're getting phone calls every day from job seekers. What are some of the frustrations?
What are some of the things that people are saying to you? Well, you just brought up a really important point that I think is one I just wanna emphasize, which is it's across all. It's not just the small biotechs. I think that it was a stereotype before that. You know, if you go into large pharma, you're safe. And so that's not necessarily the case. It's hitting all, you know, the largest companies all the way to the small biotechs.
And they're, you know, people are calling and they feel very frustrated. They feel a little bit scared. Those that are in the job search market are frustrated by the amount of time that some of these companies are taking to, you know, whether to look at their application once they're in the interview process. You know, it's taking longer than normal, and companies are, you know, not making hiring decisions as quickly as we had seen previously. Some of that is that we're doing virtual interviews.
Some of it is just that, you know, they're being very careful with every single decision that they make. Because like you said, money is tight. So, you know, the overall emotions that I hear are frustration and, a high level of anxiety out there, to be honest. Yeah. I'm seeing the same thing. And, you know, people are reaching out, and they may have either just gotten the news and and they're overwhelmed and and scared.
And then there's the other end of the spectrum where I'm talking to people, and they are, in a battle where they've been on the market for a while and there's and things haven't come together. And and they're getting nervous about, well, how much longer is it gonna be for me sitting on the sidelines trying to get a job? So the word frustration, is is definite, I think, is probably the one of the best words to use.
The other one is, you know, I think people are really, really starting to to lose hope and get it's not just frustration, but it's it's becoming desperation in a lot of ways. And and they're losing hope, and they're getting anxious. And what I'm I'm here to tell you when and I I want to be clear that even though everything that we're taught we've talked about so far, it sound pretty gloomy, gloom, and doom. Don't lose hope. Like, I I guys, do not quit. Don't lose hope. Don't think.
I think one of the things that's most important is we're we're having this conversation because we want you to know it's not just you. You're not the only one going through this. Mhmm. And we wanna be able to provide practical advice and tips, which we're gonna get to. We're gonna talk about what to do to stand out, how to get over this. But the first very first message to all of you is don't let it bring you down. Don't let the frustration overcome you.
Don't let the time seep into your mind, and you start to think that, well, you know what? I stink, and it's only me, and I'm not good. And I'm never gonna get a job, and this market's the worst, and nothing's gonna ever happen for me. Because I'm gonna tell you right now, there are plenty of people that are getting jobs. There are jobs out there. People are getting jobs. There will be more jobs out there. It's just a matter of timing. It's just a matter of timing.
So now let's talk about that piece. Because one of the things that I think is really important is to try to look inside the mind of a hiring manager. You know, Sarah, I know that you being in industry for 20 years and, you know, being at the director level now being, you know, on the recruiting side of the equation, you have a lot of insight into what hiring managers are looking for. So what what could you share with people? And what could you tell the job seekers that are out there?
What are hiring managers looking for these days? Yeah. Well, hiring managers are always gonna be looking for someone that provides value. So, you know, we'll go back to, I think, everything that you have taught the listeners to this podcast that, you know, it's all about what value you bring and whether that's in your therapeutic area of expertise or the things that you've done.
I see a lot of people out there that are trying to fill their resume with courses or certificates or, things that they've done, but not show what those things that they've done have actually resulted in. You know? So continually looking at, you know, what you've done in your current role or the role before that and what results that brought, that's what the hiring manager is looking for.
They're looking for someone that can start right up and use their previous skills, bring them to that organization and really make a difference. A lot of these hiring managers are stressed too and don't have the training capacity that they previously had. So they're looking for self starters. They're looking for very motivated individuals that are going to be able to connect the dots. You know, if they're given an assignment, figure things out a little bit more than they might have 2 years ago.
They're you know, hand holding is not gonna be a thing, I don't think, in the beginning of 2024. You've really gotta have just that attitude where, you know, I I can't say anything better than figure it out. So what what do you think? I mean, what are you seeing from your end? You talked to a lot of the hiring managers. Yeah. Well, I could tell you what you said is is very, very relevant. It's very important. This is not a time to be interviewing companies.
A lot of times, job seekers go in and they, like, well, I wanna see if this is the right fit for me. Really? You need to show your value. You need to show why you're a fit for the position. You need to fully highlight your transferable skills. What are you bringing to the table? What immediate impact can you make that hiring manager? Hiring manager want details. They they want details. They wanna know what can this person do for me at this position.
This position requires x, y, and z. If you as a job seeker can't show that you have x, y, and z, you are not going to make it far enough because somebody else will have that or they will show that. So what's most important is the details. You really have to hammer into the details of what the hiring manager wants. Well, Tom, how do I know that? You look at the job description.
And if the job description doesn't seem to have the details all the details, well, then you have to ask a lot of questions. So, for example, you start with the job description. You make sure that your resume or CV clearly highlights how your background, your transferable skills, and your experience fit the requirements of that job description.
And if there's pieces that are missing or if there's something that you feel you need to learn more about, then you have to ask questions during the interview. The the devil is in the details here, folks. I'm telling you, the best way for you to advocate for yourself is know what it is that the company is looking for and show them how you can be that fit for that position.
So that's kind of a quick, I think, just to highlight what you were saying, Sarah, and add to a little more into that piece of it. Hopefully, that puts people and and and can give people a little more direction on how to approach the process, and what is gonna get a response from hiring managers. So then the next question I have for you is, what now there's people on the market right now. What's the first thing that they should be doing? What advice do you have for them? Okay. Step 1 is this.
Yeah. Yeah. You've gotta figure out what the role is that you're targeting. What I'm seeing right now, you mentioned it, like, the desperate word. When you start to feel desperate, you start to go all over the place and think it's better to cast this huge wide net. And that's not really true because I see people, I see it with the own job the jobs I post where someone will that they they'll, actually apply for a very low level job and then a very high level job and all these in between.
So you've gotta figure out what you're going after and what your goal and what your target is because otherwise, you're just kinda shooting all over the place and you're not gonna get anywhere. So we need to know, you know, is sometimes in this kind of market, you know, you you will have to take a title change and maybe go one way down a little bit, and that's okay.
But to go you know, to be looking at, positions that are all across these different, you know, scientific communications, medical science liaison, director, you know, all I'll just take whatever I can get. It's not gonna work because hiring managers are gonna see right through it, and they're gonna be kinda like, you know and it's just this idea that, well, I just I just need a job. I'll take whatever I can get. It it's not gonna work. You've gotta focus in and say, hey.
I really wanna be in, you know, medical communications, and that's what I'm gonna gear my CV to. That's what I'm gonna gear my LinkedIn to. That's what I'm gonna practice interviewing for. That is because if it it's not what you want, it the hiring manager is gonna see right through it. Mhmm. So I think that's the number one thing. You gotta figure out what your goal is. Totally. Yeah. And I'm gonna add to that. So, like, I look at that as being strategic.
Like, you really have to be strategic, and and you have to know what your goal is before you set out. Otherwise, you know, that's old expression, you know, when you aim at nothing, you'll, you know, you're gonna you'll you'll miss every time, right? So you have to know what the target is, and you have to be strategic. But the other thing to just to add to that piece, is you have to have a process, you really have to develop a process.
And what I mean by that is if you're brand new in your job search, or even if you've been at it for a while, but you don't have a process, you're you're going, you're not you're doing yourself a disservice, you're not gonna get there fast enough, because you're doing it in pieces. I see it all the time. It's like, well, you know what? I'm gonna work on my job search on the weekend.
And then the weekend comes and you put in an hour or 2, but it's not it's nowhere near the amount of time that you need to put in. So you know, the that old expression, how do you eat an elephant? You know, one bite at a time. But you have to take a certain number of bites each day to eat the elephant. So what bites are you gonna take every single day towards your job search? So the process might look like this.
So I'm and if if you're not working, then there should be a lot more hours put into this. If you are working and you're looking for a job because maybe you got laid off and you're you still have to work or maybe you're just looking to transition. But you need to, you need to set aside a certain amount of time each day to your job search. So, like, okay, 2 hours in the morning, I am gonna spend 1 hour is gonna be on just research, researching companies.
The next hour is gonna be just on networking. And then I'm gonna do 2 hours in the afternoon. The first half hour is gonna be just connecting with people on LinkedIn so that I could build my network. Then it's gonna be an hour of applying to positions. Mhmm. And then there's gonna be another hour of following up on positions that I applied towards previous, then there might be, the next day, 1 hour might be practicing for my interview.
So what I'm saying is write down all the critical tasks that you need to do to have a successful job search and break them out into pieces and do that every day. That's a successful process, and that will lead to progress. And when you start to get progress, it starts to give you confidence and motivation and things start to turn around. So let me ask you, what mistakes are you seeing people make right now?
Yeah. Well, it's funny that you just laid out the process because I was gonna talk about that too. In that, the biggest mistake I see right now is that people just are frustrated, so they just start saying, I'm frustrated. I'm frustrated. I'm frustrated. And getting in that kind of mindset, Well, I'm applying and I'm not getting any bites. I'm not I'm applying. And they're just kind of doing the same thing over and over.
So even if they're doing, you know, they they think they're doing all these things. They're not looking to see what they might be able to change. And what I mean by that is if you're not getting any calls back on your resume or CV, you gotta look at your resume and CV and do some revamping before you just keep, you know, mass applying. You know? So that's, I think, a big thing.
If you're getting to, you know, the HR interview and you keep getting stuck there, but you're not getting any further, let's do some self evaluation. Let's do some practice with some mentors, see where you might be making some mishaps that you're not aware of so you can maximize every time. This is a thing where if you're getting an interview, we have to be ready. You gotta make the most of every single opportunity because it's you know, you don't know how many of these you're gonna get.
So I think just really honing the process too and figuring out, you know, where might I have some gaps here in the process. That that's one thing. The other thing, you know, that I see is in 2 things, actually. What one is when people are getting laid off, the the previous when I was in the industry, a lot of times, you would just say, you know what? I'm gonna take a little bit of time. Take some time, and then I'm gonna get on the job search. I would highly recommend not doing that right now.
It's not the time to take some time. You know, I understand if you wanna take a gap. That's totally you, and I want you to enjoy your time. But I also think it's taking longer. So time passes quickly all of a sudden. So you've gotta jump right into the job search process as quickly as you can if you have the layoff. We don't want, you know, the longer you wait, the harder it is to get on. So, you know, that I think is changed since the last time I got laid off in the industry.
Just don't take that time. And then I do wanna address and I address this on the LinkedIn live titles. And this, I'm talking to the people that are already in industry, and it's a mistake that I'm hearing right now. And I hear this probably 2 or 3 times a day. I I you know, I'm at the associate director level. I wanna go to director. Or I'm at the, you know, senior MSL, you know, and I wanted to go to, I don't know, executive level.
I think we have to do some level setting here that number 1, across all the different companies, titles are not consistent, and we've talked about that before. And just to reiterate, they their associate director at 1 is not the same as another. So, just take a little bit of a step back right now and realize that this might not be the time where you can get a bump up in title, and that's okay.
Actually, look at the job description, like you said, Tom, and, you know, look and see if it's the kind of work that you can get some growth out of and you can really have an effect at the company and look at that versus just the title right now. That doesn't mean I want you to, again, to be applying to all different kind of things.
So but but, you know, if a recruiter calls you with a really good opportunity, but it's, you know, a MSL versus a senior MSL, like, don't just immediately say no because I see that mistake all the time. And then they call back, like, 2 2, 3 weeks later. Hey. I should've looked at that position. You know what? It's gone.
Yeah. Well and it's, you know, it's that's part of a bigger, you know, that's part of a bigger equation, which, you know, looking at the the job search process, you you really have to be your own advocate. You have to make sure that you're positioning yourself properly. And and the the title conversation, it goes along with that. So I think that that's great advice. And, you know, look, we're not trying to convince somebody to to do something that's not in their best career interest.
No one's suggesting that you you need to force a demotion on yourself. But also, don't put so much clout on titles because it's it's just it, you know, it's like Sarah said, there's no consistency in title. So just be careful about that because it is it does cause a lot of people, reasons to miss out on what might be next for you.
And the other thing too is just, like, thinking about this idea of what mistakes people are making is and you alluded to this, Sarah, but I'm just gonna kinda reiterate and say that it's not a time to be reactive. You really need to be proactive right now. What I mean by that is if you just think that you can just apply to a bunch of positions and things are gonna start to happen, I think you're gonna get really frustrated. This is a time where you have to utilize every resource.
You have to be really proactive. You have to make phone calls every day to people that you know. You have to pull out all of the stops, the networking contacts and the people on your LinkedIn, people that you used to work with, people that maybe just got a job at a different company. You you need to be the person that spearheads your your your job search because nobody else is gonna do it for you.
You know, you can contact me or Sarah, one of my recruiters or any of the recruiters that are out there. There's plenty of really good recruiters out there. And we're gonna help you and be an advocate for you, but we can't do the whole search for you. We can only help you in certain ways and we can open up, hopefully, the opportunities that we get from our clients might be a good fit for your background, or maybe we position you in certain situations.
But you need to be the one that navigates the course of your search. So it's not a time to be reactive by in in any way because the market will just eat you up. You'll just be sitting on the sidelines. So as we as we look at some of the other kind of pieces of advice of how people can stand out, what other things do you wanna talk to people about, Sarah, that you've seen as effective strategies for job seekers now?
Yeah. Yeah. I I said this the other day during a phone call with actually an aspiring medical science liaison, and and he said, you know, I'm just not really good at selling myself. And I said branding is not bragging. And if you set that, it's your mindset as far as that. Like, most medical affairs people are very much like, you know, I just don't like to sell myself. But this isn't selling.
You're branding yourself and your personal brand in 2023 and beyond is what's gonna help you get a job, and then it's gonna help you in the job with your KOLs. And it's gonna help you, you know, with your whole career trajectory. So you've really gotta figure out what your personal values are, and then that has to be reflected on your CV, on your LinkedIn. I can't emphasize enough. You know, guys, that I love LinkedIn.
It's a very, very powerful tool, but it's not gonna be if you use it like social media and just scroll through LinkedIn. You need to use it, you know, to showcase what you've done. And again, not just the things that you've done, but what the what effect those things have had.
And if you start to position your resume and your LinkedIn like that, I mean, I would just step by step if you're gonna do one thing this weekend, take 2 hours and revamp your LinkedIn, and you might think that it looks pretty good. There's always room to tweak little bits here and there. Have, you know, have a couple people look at it and see what three words they think about you when they look at it. You know, have a colleague look at it.
Have a trusted friend look at your picture and say, hey, when you see my LinkedIn picture, what do you think? You know, do you think I need to it actually look like you? I can't tell you. I had I had a a previous colleague the other day, and I looked at their LinkedIn picture, and I'm like, wow. I think that might be, like, 15, 20 years ago. Like, if you don't have an updated LinkedIn picture, like, update your LinkedIn picture.
So just simple tactical things, Tom, that I think, you know, can make a long it can go a long way. No. No doubt. And and, again, it reinforces what I said before about the details. Yeah, I just think that it's it's such an important piece of the equation. And just to add to that, and not to just, you know, I guess go overboard on this one piece, but that's how you're gonna stand out. You wanna be so good at each part of the job search, that people take notice. So what does that mean?
That means your LinkedIn profile is perfect. Your photo, your engagement on LinkedIn is going to help you. Your your CV or your resume is is flawless. It stands out because it is it reads as as a document that's very consistent with what matches the job description. And then when you interview or you get an opportunity, whether it's a phone conversation, a video interview, or a live interview, you nail every single part of it. You put those pieces together.
You don't get a second, you know, you only have one chance to make a first impression. You don't get a second chance at a first impression. So you just wanna make sure that you're fully locked into each piece of this. That's how you stand out. That's how you eventually wind up getting the job. What how you do one thing is how you do everything. Make a commitment to excellence. That's what makes people stand out.
And and one of the other things that I'll add to this, and you guys hear me talk about this all the time, you hear Sarah talk about this, but you have to get your mindset right. You you have to have a level of confidence and positivity and energy that people are going to notice. They're going to feed off of.
If you let the frustrations of what's going on in the market and what's going on with your job search translate into your attitude and your mindset and the energy that you're putting forth in a conversation with a hiring manager or somebody in talent acquisition, HR, whatever it is, or even with recruiters like myself and Sarah, we're gonna pick up on it. Yeah. A 100%. There's no room for negativity. Zero room for negativity. It just drains the energy out of the other person.
And you know what they think? You know what? That person can't help me. They can't help me. In this day and age, what hiring managers want, what talent acquisition managers want, who's gonna help me? Who's gonna help me fill this position? It's gonna make me Who's gonna help me excel in this role? Mhmm. Who's gonna solve my problems? You have to show them that you're the problem solver. You have to show them that you're the answer to their question. That's that's your job.
And you have to get your mind right in order to do that. If you don't get your mind right, you're gonna be working against yourself. Sarah, and I know you you agree with that. I totally agree with that. And I was just gonna give an example quick, and I won't share a name. But one of our very first Aspire MSL members, you you know, she came in and had a resume that Tom wasn't getting her in any any interviews at all.
And she was a clinician, and, I mean, that's what we get a lot in that program, and as aspiring medical science ladies since period. But I think this applies to anyone in medical affairs too that her resume just wasn't reflecting what she was bringing. So a quick revamp. I think she's gotten 3, you know, interviews in a short period of time just from tweaking her resume. Tweak it. She got a new LinkedIn profile picture. She actually got a professional headshot. I don't think that's necessary.
I think you can do it on your iPhone, but, complete LinkedIn profile revamp. Guys, we're talking, like, was getting zilch in interviews, and now she's I I didn't even tell you, but last night she's got she got a final interview too. So I'll tell you about this after the call. But, anyway, this LinkedIn stuff works. The resume stuff works. She did have a little bit of a lapse where she was starting to doubt her own confidence. I know. I because I've I've actually spoken to her personally twice.
And the mindset stuff is what's gonna take her to the final yes in the negotiation process or just the job acceptance. And I it's I wish I could, like, get in person with everybody that I talk to on the phone that is at that point where they're just so frustrated. Because I III think what you've said you gotta just take a step back.
You've gotta get your belief back in yourself, especially if you've been applying and just not getting any looks if you've gotten interviews and gotten some rejections, Look. Tom said it best at the outset of this. Like, that's what the market's like, but you can change it. And we've seen people get jobs, and you can get one too. Oh, no doubt. No doubt. And, you know, and, Sarah, you you mentioned the Aspire MSO program, which a lot of people keep asking us about.
And if you guys aren't familiar, Sarah and I have a, it's a coaching program. It's it's basically an online course, which is a step by step guide on how to land your first MSL position. And people are asking us, well, how is it going? How are the people doing? And we're seeing tremendous, tremendous progress on people are getting great results. Sarah, can you tell everybody I know we have this special coming up. I want you to tell everybody because it's coming up quick.
So I just think it's important to let everybody know that it's available in case there's interest. Yeah. We do. So we are running a special that will go through the Sunday of Black Friday weekend, so thanksgiving weekend here in the US. And if you join Aspire MSL before that, you will actually get all of 2024, for MSL mastery for a community that Tom and I are building. So more on that to come, but it's actually January through December that you will have access in 2024.
I've had a couple of you ask, will it be the full year or will it be November to November? So just confirming, it's the full year of access to MSL mastery, which is a community that, we are so excited about and that is gonna just take you to the next level when you do land your MSO role. And the reason we wanted to do this as a bonus and not just, you know, discount the course or something like that is we want you to know that, like, our goal in Aspire myself is to get you that role.
But then we're not gonna leave you there. Like, we wanna support you as you progress in your career too and really take you to that next level of excellence. Yeah. So, yeah, we will, have details. We'll post on LinkedIn about how you can access that. But as long as you sign up before Sunday well, through Sunday of Black Friday weekend, you can access that. And, guys, it's it's to be honest, like, Sarah used the word excellence.
One of the things that I I I wanna mention when it comes to this this job search and not it's not just the job search that we're talking about. It's your whole career is is the the pursuit of excellence, both personally and professionally. It gets noticed. Yes. So if you're a person of excellence, it's going to come out in everything you do. I don't care if you're an MSL, or if if you're if you're flipping Krabby Patties and Bikini Bottom at the Krusty Krab.
If you're the best at what you do, people are gonna take notice. There's gonna be a line outside the door at the Krusty Krab and Bikini Bottom because everybody's gonna wanna buy your krabby patties, you know, instead of buying you know, going to the chum bucket. Right? That's all. So I know I know you're, like, Tom, that's the best analogy. That's a good one. It's actually perfect. Yeah. Oh, but here's the thing.
The thing is, when it comes to standing out on the job market, standing out in your career, it doesn't matter whether you're an MSL or whether you're a fry cook. You Yeah. It's your actions throughout your daily life that's going to translate and that gets into the personal piece as well. And not to, you know, we don't want to make this a big promotion for the MSO mastery program, but that's what we focus on is personal excellence and professional excellence.
And that's what gets people to stand out. So whether you listen to this podcast or or, you know, check out our YouTube channel or read books that we recommend, or, you know, whatever. That's that's the pursuit of personal excellence. That's the pursuit of career excellence.
Every single time you listen to a podcast, read a book, watch a video, you're feeding your brain, you're feeding your mind, you're feeding your attitude, you're feeding your career, you're arming yourself with more ammunition to find success. And the other thing too is it there's there's a hit of dopamine that you're gonna get because when your mind and your brain knows that you're making progress and are on the right track towards something, it's gonna reward you with that hit of dopamine.
And I every once in a while, I like to get scientific with you guys because you're all scientific people. So that's why it's so important to develop a process, stick to it, be consistent, work at it every single day. Feed the process. Again, how do you eat an elephant? One bite at a time. How many bites you're gonna take today? The more bites you take, the smaller that elephant's gonna get. Every single day in your job search, You're that job that's out there is the elephant.
How many bites towards that job are you gonna take today? How many are you gonna take tomorrow? What is your process look like? Because that's what's gonna get you there. It's not one thing. And and a lot of people listen to this podcast, and they join our program, and they they do all these things because they want the answers to the test. And I could tell you it's not one thing. It's many things. So, Sarah, I'll let you finish off, and I'll give you kind of the last word here.
So what's final piece of advice you have for folks? Well, I'm gonna just piggyback on what you just said. And if you do feel like your confidence is going down a little bit, those of the the people that I used to work with, a lot of times I get that, okay, sir, I'm a little worried. I'm so old. You know? I just don't have confidence in myself. You know? Or on the other end, so the people are trying to break in. I don't have confidence.
Guys, if you do what Tom's saying and you tell yourself you're going to invest in your job search and you're gonna spend time every day and then you do it, that's how you're gonna build the confidence. Confidence is built by doing the things that you say you're going to do them on a consistent basis. So just showing up, putting in the work, and doing what you said you're going to do, that's how you're gonna get confidence. I can't give you confidence. Tom can't give you confidence.
Your previous colleagues can't give it to you. It's gonna come from yourself by putting in the work. Guys, believe in yourself. We do. I'll tell you right now. You know, I I I talk to a lot of people, and you guys are the the people that listen to this podcast, the people that are out there. You guys are super, super smart. And, you know, you're you were you were meant to do this. You just have to stick to your conviction, stick to your goal. Don't give up. Don't lose lose hope.
Don't lose sight of the goal. And and we thank you. We thank you for being a part of this this community that we're in, this podcast community, and, and and this commitment to excellence. We we're all in it together. And if you're listening to this podcast, you're committed to a life of excellence. I know you are. So just stick to your dreams. Don't give up. And, know that we're rooting for you because we are. We are absolutely rooting for you every day.
So thank you guys for listening, and we'll see you next time. Thanks, Sarah. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future. And feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.