Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is Rob Roste, who is a senior MSL with Biogen. And we talk about how Rob's nontraditional background has led to great success as a medical science liaison. He's a great guy. Great conversation. I hope you guys enjoy it. Welcome to MSL Talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Rob. How you doing? Welcome. Hey, Tom. Thanks for having me here.
It's, it's a pleasure, and I'm always happy to, share some time with you. Man, I'm looking forward to this. I know you got a great story. I can't wait to share it with everyone. So thank you. Thanks for joining us. And let's start with an introduction. Tell everybody, you know, what you have going on these days and and that sort of thing. Okay. So, I'm doctor Robert Rosti. I'm an MSL currently in the Alzheimer's franchise for Biogen, preparing the market for a product launch.
Mhmm. I've been in MSL for almost 15 years now, but I've been in the pharma industry since 1993. So, a little bit of background. I actually started out carrying the bag as a sales representative. It was sort of my intro to pharma during the tail end of its glory days. Then I guess I got exposed to different functions, I began to see, you know, how my skill sets were starting to fit with the medical affairs MSL role.
Yeah. But at the time, the barrier to entry and still is now was I didn't have a terminal degree. So after moving around to a couple different companies, as fate would have it, I was, let go from a company in 2003, and I received a very generous severance package, and an education stipend. And that's when I decided, okay. This is a time to really pivot in my career and go back to school.
So I went back to school to Penn State College of Medicine, got my master's, started on my PhD, but again as as life goes, my laboratory moved and they moved out of state. And I had a family rooted in Central Pennsylvania. I didn't want to follow them, so I transitioned my program to the Kirksville College of Osteopathic Medicine, and I got, took, you know, my science classes, but I I enrolled in a program.
I got a doctorate in health education, health sciences, which on the surface, you know, when I would interview originally, people look at that and go, well, what is that? I have never heard of it. I've had people say, is that a real doctorate? Is that an honorary doctorate? You know, I listen to your podcast about awful interviews and interviewee questions, but it goes the other way. There are awful interviewer questions as well.
Yeah. But it really trans translated well for me in setting myself apart and having the unique skill set that other MSLs don't possess. Yep. A lot of MSLs have the clinical aptitude, but it's really how you take information, how you synthesize it, how you boil it down and separate the wheat from the stock, and how you deliver that information, to an external stakeholder, a KOL or an internal colleague at your company. Yeah. So yeah. We're a couple different companies.
Yeah. So let's go back because you you you know, interesting. It's it's so your background, you know, a little nontraditional in the sense that so you break into industry in a sales position. Correct. Right? So now what was your degree at that point? Did you just have a bachelor's degree? Regular, business degree. I had a degree in food and drug sciences. Uh-huh. And, I had taken some early undergraduate courses. My university was starting to build out a program.
They had an MBA in pharmaceutical marketing. They were trying to build an undergraduate program. Yep. So the professor was trying to get that program going, was starting with some capstone courses. Naturally was my first exposure to the industry. Okay. After I got out of college, I I did what every college student did. I kind of bounced around traveling a little bit, pursuing a couple of dreams. Yep. I was very young when I got married.
I got married in 93, and I needed to eventually enter the real world and get a real job. Yeah. A good a good friend of mine hooked me up ironically, but someone like yourself is my first experience with a quote, unquote headhunter or recruiter. And I took a job with a large neuroscience company, working in their specialty division, you know, selling neurological drugs to neurologists and neurosurgeons. And back in the day, that's when sales was, you know, you had a 6 week training.
It was a lot of clinical, a lot of high science. Unfortunately, the job and sales shifted to more marketing messages, sound bites, and they weren't they were more concerned about not about content, but just about, you know, how you look and how you look when you deliver that message. Right. And that didn't really fit with what I was doing and what I really wanted to do.
So I'd moved to a couple different companies thinking maybe that's it's just a company thing, but it really was an industry thing. So how long were you in sales for? I was in sales till 2,001. So I did it from 93 to 2,001. Yep. And then I went to school from 2,001 to 2,003, and then my severance ran out. I took my first job. It was a remote medical information position with a company. So I would fill medical information requests remotely. And I was very transparent with the company.
I said I'm going to school right now. Can I still do this and go to school? And they were very progressive at the time. This is the early 2000. So they said, sure. You know? And actually, it was a benefit. They actually paid for my schooling. What? So you so you're you're in sales. You did that for, you know, 8 or 9 years or whatever it was. And then you decided that you wanted to get the degree because you wanted to transition into an MSO role?
Exactly. Because I was pulled by one of my early mentors. You've got the aptitude, but our company and pretty much every other company, the price of admission is you have to have a doctorate. Right. So you go get the doctorate, but you found a position in between, which is almost like a, really, a nice entree into the MSO role because you're kinda yeah. Kinda almost performing the same tasks.
Yep. It just taking medical information, sending the letters out either to the MSO to give to the KOLs or sending it out to the KOLs themselves, and I got to interact with a lot of MSLs. I got to ask a lot of questions. Yep. Networking, you know, we'll talk about that when we talk later. Is, you know, networking is key, especially when you've got one of these non traditional backgrounds like I have or you come from something different.
I know there's a lot of companies now that are expanding their reach beyond just a traditional doctorate. They look at nurse practitioners, physician assistants, doctorate in psychologies, people that bring clinical and patient experience as well. Yep. But it's all about building your network. And, you know, when I did it, this is long before Google or LinkedIn or any other resources that are available now. Yep. Yeah. So, I mean, smart.
So you you knew that you wanted to transition into this MSL role, which back in the day, when you're talking about the late nineties. Right? Early 2000. Yep. Early 2000, it was a different market. It's a totally different market. So but you so you get in as things are starting to get hot. You get your degree. Right? You're working, you know, in that other role. You get your degree. So then what what's next? Like, how did you wind up actually landing your first MSL role?
So it took a lot of hard work, and it's the one thing I can, implore to the listeners or anyone that's really looking to break in. It's it's it's I'm not gonna say it's easier now than it was back then. I honestly don't wanna sound like an okay boomer. Mhmm. But it is really it it's gonna take time. It's not gonna happen overnight. And the thing for me was it was just really building a network, asking people and asking them sincerely. I get reached out to a lot by people, and it's not sincere.
It's, hey, I know so and so. Can you get me a position with your company? Here's my resume. Yeah. And I okay. Well, if we're gonna be open and honest, no. I don't know you. I'm not gonna attach my name to you. I don't know your work ethic. I don't know anything about you. So one of the things when I talk about networking is really taking the time to learn and ask questions and be sincere. Don't do it with the end in mind. Do it with the process in mind. The end will eventually come.
But ask your questions. Know what you're looking for. Ask the smart questions and, you know, I was a quick little story. I was asked to come back to my old university to do a, degrees for or excuse me, jobs for scientists outside of academia. So I did a little presentation on the MSL role, what it is, what it entails. Finish up 20 minute presentation right at the end of the talk. Okay. Who has questions? 1st question, is it true you guys make a lot of money? No. That's not the right question.
2nd question, Is it true you guys get really nice company cars? Okay. Stop. Let's have a full stop now. Okay. Let's talk about the myth. Let's talk about the reality. Yeah. Well, and let's let's be tactful. And and, you know, there's there's something about being professional, professional etiquette. As a matter of fact, we did a podcast on it not that long ago.
And I think that to your point, whether it's a a networking conversation at a conference or whether someone's coming to you, to network on their on their own behalf for their career, you can't steamroll the person. No. You have to have tact. Yes. And you have to be really careful and realize that you're asking that person for their time. And the least you could do is come into it with a sense of polish. And people And at least try to give them a little bit of the benefit of, hey.
So and so, you know, suggested I reach out to you. I'm really grateful for your time. I know you're busy. Perhaps, you know, this but, like, try to see if maybe, you know, you can even put in there, you know, love to get you in my network and, you know, perhaps I could be of help to you in the future. Like, things come back around, but to steamroll somebody and just have this level of expectation or to just be so blunt as to come out with these crazy questions, nothing good comes from that.
That's the one thing that I noticed with the younger generation is there's a level of expectation. And it took me a long time and a lot of hard work and having to overcome a lot of stereotypes and a lot of stigmas. But what helped me was when I built my network, I came in with prepared questions. Yeah. What skill sets do these companies look for?
You know, I'm not coming in as the traditional I have industry experience, but I don't have MSL experience, but, you know, I'm not the traditional PharmD, MD, PhD, so you're looked at a little differently. Mhmm. What is it that I can do that sets me apart? You know, you ask to learn, and you take the feedback, and you don't just get feedback from 1 person.
You get a multitude of feedback, different backgrounds, different professions, different ages, different genders, different levels of experience. Yeah. Build that network to really understand. And don't be afraid to take feedback. Feedback is something that is is meant to be well And, you know, some people are good at feedback and some people aren't. I'm a very direct communicator, so some people don't like that. But I tell people it's separate who's saying it from what's being said.
Mhmm. Well, you're but you're a direct communicator, Rob, but you're also a very tactful communicator. I appreciate that. Thank you. You know, and there's a finesse to you know, you have a great personality, and you're a people person, and and you enjoy a good conversation. There that there's a difference between being a direct communicator and a bulldozer and being a direct communicator with finesse Thanks. And be having a good really good personality and being able to communicate well.
I think a good example, I'm working with a a woman right now. One of my KOLs reached out to me and said, you know, can I have a couple minutes of your time? I wanna talk to you. Sure. We had a phone conversation. Look. A colleague of mine, she's a neurology nurse practitioner. She's been interested in getting in the MSL role. Would you mind talking to her? I was fortunate to have people give me their time. I'm a big believer in karma and paying it forward.
Sure. She sent me a text, you know, thank you for your time. What works for you? So we had a time. We sat down and I said, you know, what questions do you have? And she came well prepared. Tell me about the role. Tell me about your experiences. You know, what is it that they're going to look for from me, you know, even though, you know, I don't have a doctorate, but I have significant clinical and patient experience. You know, how can I leverage that to be successful?
She went about it the right way. And I was, you know, I was very honest, you know, for those like myself that have the nontraditional background, there are still those companies and those hiring managers that are dinosaurs, that are a bit archaic. I'm a big on axioms and I, you know, I get that from my grandfather. I I encountered what I call the illogical tyranny of the knots. You do not have this degree, therefore, you cannot do this job. Mhmm. That thankfully is going away.
Yeah. People are looking at a myriad. You know, I've met and partnered with MSLs and, you know, work with MSL partners that have a whole variety of different backgrounds and degrees. And I think the industry is realizing that diversity is not just your gender, your age, or the color of your skin. Mhmm. It's background that you bring to the table. Yeah. And, you know, great example, my first MSL job, I was the only non PharmD, and they let me know about it. I'm sure they did.
So that's not and and that's why I lasted that job for 5 and a half months. Yeah. You know? It was the the culture they created was this was this homogeny of everyone was the same. Yeah. Yeah. So alright. Lot to unpack there. But, you know, just thinking about some of the stuff that you just said. Right? So looking at your story, you had in you had industry experience, and then went and got the degree to get the MSO role.
So what about what advice would you have for people that don't have industry experience that maybe they do have the degree or they're, you know and they're looking to transition into into the MSL role. Would you say it's it makes sense for them to consider a position before the MSL position? So an industry position, maybe in clinical research or something that would be an entree to the MSL role? It's really interesting. That's a great question.
It depends on what's presented to you and what your what your, what I call, your pain threshold is. Mhmm. These MSGL jobs are few and far between, and they're very competitive. Mhmm. That is I always say to people, if that option presents itself to you, it might take you a little longer to get to where you wanna go, but the route might be a little easier. Yeah. It depends on how much you really want it.
Mhmm. The thing that I can stress, as I mentioned earlier, is, you know, build a strong network, you know, leverage LinkedIn, colleagues you may know. Without sounding like I'm shamelessly pandering here, but, you know, find a good recruiter such as yourself. And there's other good companies that are out there. Stay away from the recruiters that wanna get your resume and then disappear for a while. And then you don't hear from them and you have to hunt them down.
You can weed them out very quickly. Stay away from the blind, unsolicited emails that come into your mailbox. Yep. And if there's one thing I cannot stress enough, you do not need to pay somebody else, an organization. There's plenty of people out there, these societies, read my book, come take my seminar, come do this, I'll give you the quick and fast. It does not happen. Mhmm. And I cannot and I mentor a lot of people, especially the young people.
Well, I wanna this person says that they used to do the job, and if I take their seminar and come to their program and stuff no. All that does is take money out of your pocket and put it in theirs. A lot of people, myself included, have gotten to where we are and have been successful just by networking properly, finding good recruiters, and working smart and working hard. Got you. So, you know, obviously, it keeps coming back to that word, networking.
So when someone is in a situation where they're looking to either break into a role or transition to another role, whether they're in industry they might be in MSO right now. Right? But they want to change positions or, get promoted. You're saying build your network and use networking as your daily tool to position yourself. You know, people talk about right place, right time. That doesn't just happen. You have to make it happen. Exactly.
So you're saying building your brand is gonna put you in position. Yep. Be known for being above and beyond. You know, work a little harder, work a little smarter, be a good team player. These are critical attributes that companies look for. It's not just the background. How well do you fit into a team environment? There's going to be a lot of situational questions. Tell me about a time when, and they will judge your responses, you know, how you handled.
I think I think the, the old format was the STAR format, situation, task, action, result. They've changed that a little bit now. A little more outcome based, a little more behavior modification based. But they're really gonna wanna see how you are as an individual because it takes a lot of time to train MSLs and get them up to speed, and it takes a lot of money. And they wanna make sure they get it right, and they wanna get it right the first time.
Yeah. So it's really building that emotional intelligence along with your brand and showing them that you're technically competent, but you're emotionally and professionally competent as well. Yeah. You know, that that's a theme that comes up on this podcast a lot, and it's be prepared.
You know, if you're going to engage in a job search for an MSL position, whether you have experience as an MSL or you don't have experience as an MSL, people expect that you're prepared and that your your answers are going to be sharp, and and that you're going to know about the company, know what an MSL does, know the details of the job description, have done your homework. I mean, this comes up over and over.
So, obviously, what you're saying when you said go above and beyond, obviously, to separate the people that are really stellar candidates, it's the ones that really prepare, do their homework, and are ready. I've had the pleasure of being involved in several hiring interviews over my career, and the people that have done their homework and have prepared stand out very quickly and very apparently.
Conversely, the people who have not prepared and who have not done their homework, they stand out very quickly and very apparently. Yeah. And nothing will eliminate you quicker than not being properly prepared. I made that mistake in an interview one time. I thought I was interviewing for this therapeutic compound. It was actually the other one, and the person asked me, well, what do you know about our compound? I have no idea.
Mhmm. I might as well have got up and walked out the door right then and there. Yeah. Yeah. You know, and sometimes, you know, mistakes happen and and, you know, and there's or there might be a miscommunication or whatever. But, you know, I think the onus is on you as the candidate. You know? You have That's what I stress. Responsibility. Yeah. That's what I stress. You know? And you have People owe you nothing. People owe you nothing.
And but with the people that approach you and approach me with a sincerity and say, you know, this is what I'm interested in. Can I have a little bit of your time? And they come prepared with questions, and they're willing to engage and listen. You know, can I send you my CV, but not, you know, so you can pass it on, but what do you think? What should I what should I highlight? Yeah. I'm not a CV expert. I had mine written professionally in 2008, and, honestly, it hasn't changed since.
But it gets me to where I am. That's why I always say lean on someone such as yourself or some of these other top end medical affair recruiting companies. Yeah. They will get you to the keywords and the buzzwords, you know, that, that help.
I try to steer people away, not all the time, but, you know, applying through the company portal is a good way to start, but there's they use artificial intelligence to screen out buzzwords and format and, you know, people go into a black hole and they think that that's an effective job search, Is that I'm gonna go online and go to the company careers website and apply to a different positions, and they get frustrated after a month when they haven't heard anything. Yeah. So It's tough.
That's a tough route. You know? We you know, that that's a theme that comes up a lot again. You know? You know? Does it make sense to apply to positions online? Well, you should. It's a part of the process. But to your point, when you when you build your network and when you network with people, and you might be able to have a foot in the door where somebody comes to you and says, hey. This position just opened up our company. I have your CV.
I'm happy to pass it along if you're interested in this job. That's a much different situation. You know? And and having a foot in the door and having somebody to walk their resume in is gonna separate you from all the other candidates that are applying online that who knows? Maybe it just doesn't even get to the right place. Yeah. And with building the brand, which is very important, and your reputation is getting in and doing what I mentioned earlier. That's that's just the first step.
You haven't arrived. Now you have to prove yourself. Right. And I've worked with some MSLs in the past that have transitioned into industry from academia, clinical practice, whatever it may be, and they're gone in under a year because they they prepared for the interview and to get the job, but they didn't really prepare for the transition to industry. Yeah. There's a commitment and a functional mindset change that you have to have. Yeah. That, you know, this is industry. This is for profit.
There are goals and objectives. This is not, you know, academia where you can, you know, pontificate and expound on topics for long periods of time. You know, you have set goals, set objectives, things that need to be met. You know, you have to understand that you're now serving a corporate master, and some people are not comfortable with that.
And I have to let them know that that this is you know, there's going to be times where you're going to do things that you don't wanna do, You don't like to do why am I doing this? This seems like busy work. But that's part of the job. It's how the industry is. And it's not only understanding the job and the role that it takes itself, but the entire industry that you're working for.
Yeah. So what would what would be your advice to folks to educate themselves to to be more prepared for that transition? Is it just reading a bunch of job descriptions? Is it talking to a bunch of MSLs or a combination of things? All the above. So, obviously, the the first thing is try to find somebody that you know. Yeah. And you know everybody. And I've talked to like, the example I gave earlier, this lady that I'm working with now. Mhmm. She was a work colleague with one of my KOLs.
Yeah. And, you know, she went to him and say, hey. I'm thinking of transitioning to industry. You know, if you know any MSLs, would you mind, you know, hooking us up? And, you know, that's how she's gone about her experience. It's really researching the role, you know, online. There's again, Google is your friend. You can there's a lot of information that's out there that's free, and that's why I was pretty adamant earlier is you don't need to pay somebody for this. You can do the work yourself.
This can have for free. Reach out again to recruiters like yourself. Sit down and schedule a half hour, an hour. Tell me about the role. Tell me about what your experience is. You guys have an inside look to the industry, and you also have an inside look to the key hiring managers and what they're looking for. Yeah. And then again, it's talk to as many different people doing the role as you can. Maybe an MSL role is not what you're looking for. Maybe it's something in clinical operations.
Maybe it's something in medical information. Maybe that's more of your speed. You know, the more you educate yourself on what's available out there, the better your chances to find a fit. Yeah. Again, LinkedIn wasn't around back in my day, but, you know, leverage LinkedIn. LinkedIn gets to be a little tired after a while. Yeah. So you have to really be unique. Yeah. I get a lot of requests every week, and I I don't know who they are.
And when you send me the generic pop up bubble that says I'd like to connect, If I don't know you, I'm gonna dismiss it. Right. But the people that take the time to to type something unique, I'm I know so and so from this company. We belong to the same swim club. Yeah. And, you know, he mentioned you're an industry. I'd like to talk to you about the job. Would you mind taking some of your time and spending a little bit of time with me? I usually respond to those.
Yeah. Yeah. No. It's because it's heartfelt, and it's sincere. It's sincere. That's what it is. But, you know, LinkedIn you you know, just to add to your list, LinkedIn could be a great resource tool for doing research, and seeing what communities are available and what are out there. So, you know, if you join groups and, and you do some research within LinkedIn on medical affairs and MSLs, you know, you can also you could certainly learn a lot because there's a lot of networking groups.
There's a lot of stuff Lot of groups. Yeah. That that's developed. And the other thing too is not to throw a shameless plug in for this podcast. But if you're preparing yourself and you wanna learn as much as you can about the MSL position, we're at 30 plus episodes right now on this podcast. And I and I'm not that's not a plug for me, but my guests have taught me so much and all of the thousands of people that have tuned in and downloaded. There's so much great information. Look for podcasts.
Look for industry, you know, news, and and really stay in touch with what's going on in industry. It's only gonna help educate you. The more resources you take available to, obviously, the the better you are. And as I said earlier, the people that come in that whether they talk to me 1 on 1 or I've had the pleasure of interviewing them, they are prepared, and that comes out very quickly. They have set questions. Yeah. You know, I remember an interview.
I said, oh, you know, I've, you know, asked you some questions. What questions do you have for me? And I got a blank stare. Yeah. And I was like, well, I really don't have any. I'm like, how can you not have any questions? So that's that's a quick I mean, that was part of our debrief is. Yeah. You don't have any questions. Like, that's that's that's It's bad form, and it shows lack of interest. Yes. Shows lack of preparation. It doesn't show a good communicator.
There's so many things wrong with it. I mean, I to be perfectly honest and transparent, I've been in situations where I've interviewed, and I haven't had any questions. I just thought on my feet and made something up based on the discussion just to make it look you're engaged. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's so important to be engaging. So, Rob, you are I mean, I love your I love your story.
You've you've created this really successful career for yourself, and I love all the information that you just shared. But what other advice would you have? I mean, you know, you're a wealth of information. What else can you tell people that are maybe looking for their 1st MSL role or they're looking to transition into another role? Just really be dedicated at this. As I said, we're in a different environment now with COVID.
Things might happen a little quicker than normal because everything's all virtual, so you don't have to bring people in house and coordinate travel schedules and things that take months now might take weeks. But still, it's a very competitive role. And, you know, and I ask people to sincerely research the role and study it because everyone hears the myth about what's great about the job.
Yeah. But when you're in front of a KOL that's truly unhappy with something and you need to manage that relationship, and or you've got, you know, several days in a row of travel plus meetings and all these other things, those are the things that really, you know, people don't talk about. And it's really understanding the the downside along with the upside. Yeah. Is everything has a trade off.
Yeah. And some people and, again, I'm I don't wanna paint with a broad brush, but, you know, the people I find that have not fared well have come from academia because there there's a certain blazaness that comes in in academia. There's no sense of urgency. Everything is esoteric. Mhmm. It's not like that here. And people get culture shock when they come in, and they get a lot of stuff dropped at their plate, whether it be training or meetings or projects or travel.
They get all this dropped on their plate, and they expect you to be able to multitask, get it done, get it done well, and get it done on time. Yep. So it's and that's where, again, doing the research comes in and fully understanding and asking the questions. And, you know, this this is it again, talking back to this woman, she's asked a lot of questions about what don't you like about the job? What would you change? What bothers you? What keeps you up at night?
And those are really thoughtful questions because, you know, she's got a family and she has to understand, you know, is this something that I wanna really delve into? Yeah. Or maybe I should stay in clinical practice until my family's older and I can maybe, you know, commit myself to industry because it it it is a commitment. The industry will take care of you, but oftentimes it asks for a piece of your soul. And some people are not willing to make that sacrifice.
Yeah. Yeah. And you need to be wrong with that. That doesn't mean you're a bad person. That doesn't mean you're not cut out for it. It just means maybe this isn't the right job, or even it might be the right job, maybe it's not the right time. Yeah. Well, you gotta be realistic with yourself. You know? You really have to determine whether or not this is this makes sense, and you can go, you know, really get get after it because that's what it's gonna require.
And to your point, you know, if you really do wanna take on this job search and you really wanna do this transition, it really you have to be all in. Yes. You have to be all in. Especially for those that, are nontraditional like I am. Yeah. And, you know, speaking to those that are listening to this to to this podcast is you need to go above and beyond to set yourself apart.
Mhmm. What I tell people when they interview, that have a a different than what they consider the the normal standard background is I said, do not, under any circumstances, let people use what I call condescending qualifiers. You only have a masters in something or you are only a physician assistant. No. You earned that background and you have transferable skills. Be proud of that. Yeah. I'm proud of my background.
There's nobody I think it's an MSL that has the background in education that I do, and I take pride in that And I sell that in interviews to set myself apart. This is why I'm not your traditional cookie cutter PharmD MD, PhD, MSL. This is what my background brings that's unique. Highlight those experiences. Highlight that uniqueness. That will resonate with hiring managers. That will resonate. That's great advice, Rob. I love it. Actually, everything you said was really, really good. So yeah.
Hey. Listen, man. I can't thank you enough. You know? You've been great. Thank you. Thank you, Tom. I I really appreciate this. This is a really good resource. I wish it was available back in the early 2000. There was a lot of hard work, but it I'm not saying it's easier, but there's more available to people out there. Yeah. Sometimes too much. Mhmm. But if you do your homework and you really sit and study and get prepared, you will set yourself apart. And I tell people, don't get frustrated.
It might not come in the 1st try. It might not come on the 5th try. It might not come on the 10th try. But what you'll find when it does come, it's gonna be the right fit. And people that are hiring you and taking, you know, I don't wanna say, you know, again, use that kind of saying qualifier, take a chance on you. But people that are willing to give you the opportunity to show your wares, you know, it's often a right fit and take that as I've only gotten to one of the summits of the mountain.
I haven't got to the apex of the mountain yet. Yeah. Good stuff, man. You're the best, Rob. Thanks for coming here. Thanks a lot, buddy. Coming on. Yeah. We'll have to do this again. Thank you, boss, Tom. Appreciate it. Have a great day. Alright, buddy. You too. Bye bye. Take care. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment.
Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.