Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast, and welcome my guest, Alex Palumbo. Alex, welcome. How are doing, my friend? Yeah. Hi, Tom. I'm fine. Thanks. How about you? I'm awesome. I'm awesome. So, guys, Alex and I met through jeez, I think just through LinkedIn, really. We kinda met and we're going back and forth, and he had this really good idea. But before we get into that, Alex, why don't you do an introduction? Tell everybody who you are, where you're from, all that good stuff. Yeah. No problem.
My name is Alex Palumbo. I'm a medical science liaison manager at Assassinika here in Germany. And, yeah, I had this idea to talk with you about a specific topic that concerns probably many MSLs, and, that's actually it. So I want to disclose that all the views, statements, and opinions I'm sharing on this episode are my own, not of my former current employers. Although I don't think that actually that might play a huge role with this topic. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.
So, yeah, we're gonna talk about how to be healthy on the road and how to avoid MSL belly, which is a term I never really heard of before, but Alex kinda introduced me to that. So we're gonna get into that. Before we do, this episode is sponsored by Fierce Pharma Week. Our friends at Fierce Pharma are doing it again. They're coming up with an other awesome event. This is a conference that it used to be Mass East, and now it's a much bigger event. It's in Philly, September.
So go to Fierce Pharma Week online. Go to Google and just type in Fierce Pharma Week. It'll take you to the registration page. You'll find out all the information. It's not just a medical affairs conference. Medical affairs is a part of it. But there's also there's PR and communications, business development and licensing, and pharma marketing. So there's four different tracks. San Diego, Fierce Pharma Engage was awesome. This is gonna be the Eastern version of that.
So check that out, and, hopefully, I'll see you there because I'll definitely be there. So, Alex, let's let's just jump right into it. You came up with this term. You you told me about MSL belly. Can we start there? Like, what is that a real thing? What even is that? Well, it kinda is and it kinda isn't. So the MSL belly is actually something that I call which applies more a sedentary lifestyle for work.
So you can actually put every job in front of the word belly, whether it's a sales belly or or maybe an interest belly. It's about that people have a sedentary lifestyle during work, don't move a lot. And the term MSL belly is something that I also actually picked up on with my colleague from the field because many of us have been PhDs in the past. So we were running around the nets, and we were all skinny and fit.
But then starting as an MSL, you sit in the car the whole day almost, and then, yeah, you don't exercise. You eat a lot of stuff, and then you get the MSL belly, and that's the point. Well, so how common is this? Is this, like, a common thing? Is it, like, one of those things where, you know, someone becomes an MSL and then all of a sudden, because of the lifestyle, they may develop unhealthy habits, or maybe there's the challenges of travel? So talk about that a little bit.
Yeah. So I have no statistics about it. But generally speaking, when I talk with friends or colleagues of mine who have been MSLs for a couple of years, I almost always hear this phenomenon that by being an MSL, they just gain weight, unfortunately, because with traveling and appointment that you have with with the physicians, it's kinda hard to really stick to a rigorous diet or even keep up with your exercise. In my case, actually, it turned out the other way around.
I will talk about that, I think, a little bit later, how you can fight the MSL belly. But, it's a phenomenon that you hear quite often about people when they're talking about this. Yeah. We've talked about this before. We've we've talked about the challenges of, you know, the of how how to survive on the road because it's it's not easy. There's a lot of elements to it. So let me ask you this.
What's the first thing or first piece of advice you might give someone in helping them prepare for, whether it's a new MSL or somebody that's been doing this for a while, on on what's kinda worked for you and what's helped you? So, actually, what one type of advice is really being mindful. So really look at yourself, look at your environment, and always also consider how things may change with the job that you take for granted at some point. Right?
Because you think you have to wake up pretty early to catch a flight or to go to a customer, so you don't do breakfast that well or or whatever it is. And I think, self awareness is really the first step at all. Yeah. So self awareness and understanding, right, like, kinda what your own maybe health goals are. Right?
Whether it's fitness, health, I kinda almost feel like this should start with diet because I always think that that's probably the toughest thing in food choices, their your your your healthy eating habits, and how you can maintain that in the life of an MSL. So what's worked for you as it relates to diet and consistency and being because you guys are in and out of airports, like food choices. Like, talk about that and what's worked for you.
Actually, that's that's that's that's the the harsh reality that you face as an MSL. Once you're out there, to be honest, you don't have a lot of healthy food options. It starts really with that. At some point, you wanna make the change because you're self aware and you decide to do so, but then you're like, well, if I'm at the airport or I'm at the hotel, you know, you have all these sugary things or or also some fast food, ultra processed foods.
And eating really healthy is something that you really find on the road, to be honest. And if you do, it costs a lot of money. So something that worked out for me, to be honest, is meal prepping. Really prepare your meal and prepare when you wanna when you wanna schedule your appointment with physicians so that you don't rush into appointment without having eaten before.
And then after that, you're so craving you're craving so much food that you just bulge in everything that you that gets in your way. So really be mindful about because that's actually the great part about beating MSL. Right? You are flexible. You can schedule the appointments as you wish in the first place, then sure your clients and physicians have to agree to that. But that gives you the flexibility to do your meal prep and also do your exercise. And, yeah.
So I think it's more about a systemic issue that we're talking here in the environment that you can't get rid of, to be honest, with the health with the unhealthy food options out there. But you can do it by starting cooking at home, which is cheap, healthier, and, also, it's much more fun. It gives you a better understanding of food itself again. Yeah. I'm with you on that. I'm a big meal prepper and planner.
I think the key to this whole entire equation when it comes to at least the food aspect of this is preparation and planning. I'm I bring food with me every day. So every day when I come to work, all my meals are prepped in advance. So rarely do I go out and unless I'm with someone, do I go out and grab lunch or or dinner or whatever. And then when I travel, I prepare what I'm going to eat depending on the airport. So I fly out of Newark, and I know what options they have.
So if I wanna grab a healthy wrap or something on the way out, I know where all that stuff is, and I bring bars, like protein bars. Because I try to eat a lot of protein every day. I get, like, 200 grams of protein in a day, which isn't easy to do, especially when you travel. So I I'm a big advocate of protein bars, sometimes even protein shakes, like, when you're in the airport and you just need to get, like, twenty, twenty five grams of protein.
Yeah. That's that, I think, is probably the best hack for staying on track. Because if you're not planning it out, you're gonna grab the most convenient thing that's in front of you, and it's usually not healthy. Do you agree? Yeah. I I I totally agree.
That's what I meant, like, with plan also your appointments with physicians because if you're just in a rush and after that, you get that glucose drop, you know, and then you just get this food craving, it really disrupts everything that you that you work for, basically. And, also, what I want to really specify is that meal prepping doesn't have to be something that takes a long time one day or two, three days before. Right? So you can even do or bring with you fresh food.
So depending on what diet you you you're going to do or or also, you know, your, yeah, your your health balance in in your body, how you consume energy. Sometimes, for example, in my case, it's also enough to just bring two eggs and a banana for lunch. Mhmm. You know? And and I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm concentrated. I have energy. It's right perfect that then after having the appointments around noon, you know, is often, I think, several times for for positions.
Then you go out in the afternoon, and you're at your and you eat your regular lunch at this point. And then you don't have any cravings. You are still mindful about your body, and you have the energy to focus and concentrate during the compensations that you had. Yeah. No. That's great. I mean, that's perfect. That's actually a really good hack. Couple of hard boiled eggs, a banana. You know, that's small, portable, healthy, and it fills you up. Eggs fill you up. Eggs fill you up.
Yeah. Yeah. Great way to get in, you know, some quick nutrition. And it gives you still flexibility if you have spontaneous lunch or also dinner plans with with with HCPs or in general. It gives you the spontaneity to do so without having some guilt, you know, on your shoulders. Yeah. For sure. Let me tell you where I screw up when I travel is staying hydrated. And a couple reasons. Number one, if you're on a flight, you should you should drink enough water to stay hydrated.
But at the same time, you don't wanna get up every every twenty minutes to use the bathroom because it's a pain. Right? Yeah. So but that's an important piece of it because when you fly, it just seems like you just get dehydrated just naturally. So talk about the importance of hydration. What do you do? I think there are there are two ways of looking at it. So there is this theory.
I don't know actually the basic science behind this, but as far as I know, the body tells you when to drink, so you don't have to force it down. But what I usually do, it's because also that I'm someone who wakes up really early in the morning and works out. So the first thing that I do is, like, really drinking a whole bottle of water within the first two hours after waking up so that your blood gets a little bit, yeah, diluted, you know, your system wakes up.
So for the flight, actually, what I do is also something because often you have this TSA passing, so you can't bring any water behind that. You have to buy it afterwards. So what I would recommend to do is just just before that, drink a lot, and then you don't have to buy highly expensive water in the duty free for, I don't know, how much money they charge you for that, which is also something that you want to consider.
And depending on the on the length of your flight, well, at some point, you have to drink again. Right? Because Mhmm. Your mind needs some water, and you need to focus also because I you also use the the travel time to to prepare my talks, to prepare the meetings, or also to reflect on something that happened before. So and for that, you need energy and being hydrated.
Yep. Yeah. My wife brings a water bottle with her because they have those refilling stations in in all the airports where you could just you know, it's like a water fountain or water refilling thing. And, it's just I think because more so not just because water's, like, $70,000 a bottle nowadays. It's, like, so expensive, and it just, like, kills your budget. But it's also being able to keep track of of how much you're drinking. So I think that's pretty good hack, pretty good habit.
Let's talk about working out. I'm pretty meticulous with my workouts and being consistent with my workouts. I don't like to miss, and I rarely do. I usually incorporate something into my schedule, but it's hard when you travel. So give me give me some hacks, man. What are you seeing? I have three basic rules, actually, that Okay. That I stick to. The first one is the easiest one.
So whatever your training regimen is, whatever you're working on, whether you are someone who likes running or going to the gym and and hit the weights, I have the rule, if I miss one session, I'm allowed to miss maybe also another one, but latest latest, no excuses on the third day I'm in the gym. I'm working out.
K. Because it can happen with congresses, you know, in the morning, you meet a good colleague or you talk with someone at breakfast, and and you had or just don't have time, but there's no way I'm skipping that third day. So this is the easiest one to to remember. And in general, when you're working out, there's a way how to look at work exercise in general.
So either you're working out because you want to become better at something, stronger, faster, whatever, so you just have to be disciplined at some point. Or and I think this is the second trick that I have. Also for you for someone else or for yourself to just not put that much pressure on you, just see working out as something that your body just needs as breathing and eating. So our bodies are done to move.
There's no way that this that's that the human body is created for us staying at one place the whole time. So even in the morning, just go for a light run, you know, stretch a little bit, feel the the environment, also go out in nature. I think that makes a huge difference with natural sunlight in the morning or even in the winter if it's dark, but it's better than maybe the light that you have in the gym because, it's maybe also too bright for your system.
And the third thing actually is, something that I see that I also consider after the workout. So consider your schedule after your workout in a sense of don't go to the gym or go running with the feeling of, oh, I have to do it now in twenty minutes because after that, I have a meeting. Because even though you do it, you feel even more stressed because you worked out in a stressed way. So just always see exercise as something that's supposed to be relaxing.
Yeah. The exercise itself, it's stressing, and it's hard, and and, you're tired after that, but it's not something that should be a mental burden on you. And I think this helps you really to stay more balanced over the day. Yeah. Well, I'll add to that too. One of the things that helps me when I travel is understanding the the availability of a good gym Oh, definitely. When I travel. So for example, I always stay at the same hotels.
And I find hotels that have a gym and make sure I know what equipment's in there, get an understanding of when the gym I like to get up super early, get my workout in before the day. That way it's finished. So for me, it's where am I staying, what does the gym look like, and when does it open. And that that's a I mean, that that's a huge hack right there because you're factoring it into the trip. Yeah. I mean, I I actually had one one hotel chain changing their their working hours for the gym.
So some depending where the gym is located in the hotel, for example, if it's on the First Floor and you have some rooms underneath, they don't open the gym before seven in the morning, which is for me way too late. Too late. Then I ask them, is there no way to go to open it early? Otherwise, I have to go someplace else. Yep. And they luckily changed it. I don't know whether it's for me or because, in general, people were calling back.
Yeah. But they also told him, like, otherwise, I have to stay at a different place. And, also, the problem with gyms at hotel often is they call it on so looking it up online is not enough. That's what I want to try to tell everyone because they say, oh, we have a gym, and then it's just a treadmill and maybe a gymnastic bowl, and that's it. So really take up the phone, call them. Yeah. Or if you look online, yeah, try to find some pictures of the gym so you get a get an, get an idea.
Because what you also can do, and that's what I have figured out, at least in Germany, but I think something like this should also exist in the state. There are apps where you can subscribe to, and these apps allow you to go to different gym chains in different cities. Yeah. And this this was really a game changer for me because now it doesn't matter where I am in Germany, in Rich City.
I know there will be a couple of gym chains that I'm allowed to use by being a member of this app, and I always have a great gym. You know? And so I don't even rely that much anymore on hotel gyms because also hotel gyms, depending, on the location, whether it's a big city or more in a small town, they are not that great. Right? But a gym is always a gym. So this is something I can recommend people to look up to to these kind of Yeah. That's awesome.
I mean, I don't know if we have that in The US, but it's I'm sure if you have it, you know, where you are in in, you know, in Germany, I'm sure if there's, like, a European app for for that sort of thing, there's gotta be one in The US, I imagine. That's great. I think it's a great hack. Here's the here's one of the challenges the other challenges I face is sleep.
When when you travel and you have meetings and then there's a social aspect to the travel, whether it's a conference or whether you're going to client meetings or whatever. And now you're staying up later, and you still have to get up super early and work out. So how do you manage sleep while you travel? Well, you know, I'm just returning from congresses. And so I I I wake up really early, but I also go to sleep really early.
And I know that sometimes these kind of words don't say a lot to people, so I'm really giving you enough time so people have an imagination. So I go to sleep at nine in the evening. You know? Okay. So for some people, this is like, woah. Okay. I think I did this last time I was maybe ten or something. You know? Yeah. But, yeah, I actually do. I go to sleep at nine because I think I don't miss out anything in the evening.
There's nothing much to be done, so I rather sleep, and I wake up between five and six. Yeah. You know? And so doing this now during congresses or when you're on the road and you have especially dinners with with with your colleagues and and physicians in general or you have events, that's rough. To be honest, that's rough. But what I really do is I'm extremely transparent and open about it. So if I'm tired, I excuse myself.
I explain the situation because I felt like, well, next day, I have to attend some talks, you know, or I have meetings with other colleagues, and I want to be focused. So I can't stay here until one. And yeah, I I mean, that that's the problem with with socializing. Right? Depending who you encounter, they may see it differently. But I think as long as you are open and honest about it, it is who you are.
And at the end of the day, the role of sleep for the body is really something that you shouldn't take for granted. It makes a lot with the recovery of your system and not only for exercise, but also for your nervous system. You know? It clears up everything that you have felt during the day. And, I think everyone having a bad sleep at some point in his or her life realized, yeah, how they felt in the next day. So I really stick to it personally. I recommend everyone to do that.
Well, I think that's the challenge when you when you travel depending on what type of, you know, travel you're doing, what kind of meeting, what kind of conference, if it's internal meetings, if it's if it's KOL meetings. Because the social aspect creates there's this obligation that you feel Yeah. Socially, which interferes with could interfere with sleep, could interfere with your diet, could interfere with your exercise.
Like, the social aspect becomes another factor in the challenge of staying healthy. You said you have to be transparent and you have to, you know, just explain to people. It's not always easy to do because in social situations, you don't wanna insult, but you don't want to upset the wrong people. So talk about how you're able to stay healthy and continue a healthy lifestyle, but also be social and not offend anyone.
Well, I have actually a trick, and I think it's something that we people don't do that often is I already start conversations about this. Okay. So often when I socialize with people, one of the main topics is weather. Right? But it can also be food. It can be what you eat, what's your background, your cultural background, and so on. And you immediately go into topics like health, you know, and healthy lifestyle.
And then all of a sudden, you're already halfway there to to make the jump of, oh, you know what? It's getting kinda late. And as we discussed earlier, you know, and then and then you get a better understanding about it. And I think also it depends I agree with you. You don't want to upset people by just saying, oh, you know what? Goodbye, and you just disrupt any conversation. So it's not also how they perceive you, you know, on the other side. So be sociable in the beginning.
Show that they also care about them. So you are you are part of the conversations so that when you have to excuse yourself to to go to sleep or or whatever you're you're doing the next following that event or whatever you're doing there, is that you don't have left the impression of, oh, this guy actually never talked all evening, and now he's leaving early. That's kind of rude. Right? But at least when you're in interacted with people the whole time, they're like, okay.
Well, you know, he was fun. She was fun. Talked a lot. We had a great time. And, yeah, sure, it's late. And now I can understand that. Yeah. So we get have a different perception. You know? Yeah. I think people will understand. I do. Especially in this day and age. And what about like, what mistakes do you see MSLs make? We, you know, we talked about obviously, there's there's choices. Right? You you have to make these are these are not just habits. They're also choices.
But there's there's gotta be some consistent mistakes that you see MSLs making, whether it's on the road or just with their lifestyle in in how they're trying to be healthy but are failing. I think the mistakes that come into your way are have two origins. I think the one is self afflicted. In the sense, you wanna be great. Right? You wanna make a great impression.
You wanna be that great MSLs that physicians really wanna talk to the whole evening, and you want to share whatever you know and be sociable. And then I think being that or wanting to be that that hard, yeah, you you just forget maybe what is really important. Because if you're doing this for, I mean, a really long time, at some point, you get used to it, and, you have a really unhealthy lifestyle, and that's when the MSL belly comes. And that's when the point is, oh, wait.
Look. Now I have this belly. I gained 20 pounds, 30 pounds, and that's actually already too late. You know? And then when you have another experience where you don't have that environment, then you realize, oh, okay. That was really unhealthy now all the way, but that's already too late. And I think the other mistake is also externally in the sense of how your boss treats you, your colleagues, what is the philosophy of the company. You know?
Do you do you feel the pressure from outside, to to push it that hard that you can't even take care of your own health or not. And and, again, there, being mindful is not about only about yourself. You know? It's also about the environment. So if there is this nowadays, it's always called toxic work environment. But if you have that kind of feeling, maybe you should always think about it.
And I also say to people, colleague of mine who are who are field personnel, I tell them, like, dude, maybe that's not the right job for you. Let's be honest. Yeah. You enjoy it maybe. You to socialize with people, to talk about science, and, you have all aspects of life. Right? But maybe it's just not the right thing for for your health, and and maybe you should reconsider that.
And I think this is really a hard part, right, because you worked so hard to become an MSL at some point, and then seeing that it subsumes into this kind of complex system, it's hard to take this view, to be honest. But, I hope that no one no one really is feeling that way and on his job. Yeah. Yeah. I hope not. So last question.
What let's let's leave with what's what's, like, one healthy tip or a piece of advice or healthy hack that you can offer to MSLs out there that that's helped you that maybe can help them? It's a stupid one, to be honest. A stupid one. It's something that I did already for many years on purpose. K. But it is really buying clothes that are a little bit too tight. Okay. Like, really?
So maybe not the ones that that you're wearing when you have your KOL or or in general meetings with with your colleagues, right, because you don't wanna look funny, but maybe in private a little bit because that shows you every day that you are have a little bit too much weight on you, and so that's kind of maybe the kind of motivation to get rid of it. It really helped me. I'm honest. So maybe, the suits that I had or maybe really tight jeans, you know, it's like, oh, man.
I really have to get into these. And, it it helped me really physically no. Because I think it's one thing to feel your body, but I think it's something else also to see your body. And if we are always running around privately and sweat, which is comfortable, but you always have depression. Oh, well, I feel comfortable. It's fine. You know? But if you're wearing something that's a little bit too tight, it disturbs you all day. Trust me. You're like, oh, man.
This is really too tight, too uncomfortable, this T shirt or these pants. And then at some point, you really have the motivation, I think, to to get rid of the MSL body. At at least that helped me. Did you have any tip on that? What what helped you? Yeah. Well, I could tell you that's it's not that. I, you know, I I definitely you caught me by surprise on that one because I now look.
In all fairness, I think we all have certain clothes that are go to clothes for certain occasions, certain events, or we feel a certain way. But having clothes that are a little bit tighter to keep us from maybe eating too much because we don't want to, like, you know, feel uncomfortable in those clothes, I think it's kinda genius. I think that's actually pretty brilliant. I've never really thought of that before.
For I think for me, again and I and this is I already kind of said this, but it's it's the it's the planning and the preparation more than anything else. The only way that I'm truly able to stay healthy is to prepare in advance. If you don't pack workout clothes with you, you're not gonna work out. Right? So that's part of the planning. And I mentioned before about bringing protein bars and meal prep and and knowing what airports you're gonna get certain foods.
But the other thing is if you're not if you wanna if you're a runner and you wanna run while you're on a on a trip, but you don't bring your running shoes, you're not going for a run. No. Definitely not. I agree with you. Yeah. You know? So I think that's that's an important piece of it.
The other thing that I will say that has helped me is there are some days where I may not get the caliber of workout that I normally would get or that I would want to get just because of time, meetings, schedule, more so than anything else. So what I try to do is I try to factor in time to walk. So if there's a way if I have you know, if I can. If you're at a conference, it's actually easy.
You just because, you know, there there are there's space, you get to just say, I'm gonna take a walk or I'm gonna go to this booth or I'm gonna go here or whatever. That helps because you're adding steps. I act I actually I have there another hack. I had this rule now for many years. So whenever you have to go up, you take the stairs. And whenever you have to you have to go down, then you can use an escalator on elevator.
Yep. But at least when you go up, which is more exhausting, you use the stairs. There's no questions. And at least there, you have a little bit more muscle strength that you're training. Right? A little bit more movement, hindrance training. So that that was also one of my points. I always try also to get the longer ways. So I was on a congress, and I wanted to get to a specific hall for a talk. And sure.
I could follow the mass that that is going through that hall, but I was, like, I was making a challenge. Like, oh, you know what? I get the other way, which is longer. And you know what? I wanna be faster than anyone else. And then also what I'm not doing is on the airport. Don't use you can make actually a game of it. That's what I'm doing.
It's it's a little bit weird, but you have these, I don't know how they're actually called, these these walking these these metallic things where you can walk on which speeds you up. Yep. Work, to be honest. But instead of using those and also people mostly use them to take a ride. They don't even go fast. So they just stand there and wait to get transported. Right? Go next to them and try to be faster than anyone else by walking.
So, and I think these are little things that exhaust you a little bit here and there. You know, you make the extra steps, and you get out of breath a little bit depending on your fitness, especially if you have your luggage with you. But these are the small things because then again, once you're at the on a flight, you're there maybe for three, four hours. You're just sitting there. You're not doing anything. Right. At least Get something uncomfortable a little bit before.
Yeah. No. I think that's great. That's a that's an interesting challenge yourself a little bit. That's an interesting tip. Alex, thank you, brother. This was fun. I always I I love talking about health and fitness and diet and, you know, all that stuff. I'm I'm a big advocate. So I hope this helped a lot of people, and thanks again for coming on and joining me. Yeah. Thank you very much for the invitation, Tom. I hope everyone is staying focused and healthy, as an MSL.
And, don't be afraid to share your views with with colleagues, because I think this is the way to increase the awareness and ensure that we don't get the MSL bendy old. Don't get the MSL belly, man. Fight the belly. Thank you, guys, as always, for joining. And, yeah, man, share this show if you got some value from it, and we'll see you next time. Thank you. Bye.