Welcome to MSL talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSL and all things field medical. Hey, guys. Thank you for joining me. I am so excited. So I have Sue Watson. I have Amy Mystick and Vanessa Jacobson joining me for our first ever MSL field leadership panel QA session. So just to start, first of all, you guys I can't thank you enough. You guys were, like, the first couple of people that came on as guests. So you guys are, like, the pioneers of the MSL Talk podcast.
So I wanna start by thanking you. You literally, you guys have all had thousands of downloads of that podcast. So I couldn't wait to have you back. Can we just let's start with some introductions, maybe starting with Sue, just to introduce yourself to some of the folks that may not have listened to some of the prior podcasts. Sure. So my name is Sue Watson. I am a PharmD by training. I work for Janssen Scientific Affairs. We're a company of Johnson and Johnson.
I am scientific director over the hematology MSL group, primarily the multiple myeloma and CAR T MSLs. There's about 18 MSLs across the country. We have 2 field directors and myself. Been with j and j for 21 years, and, I live in Houston, Texas. Awesome. About me. Well, thanks for joining us again, Sue. Amy? Yes. Amy Misnick. I am also a Pharm d by training, and, I'm currently a senior director for the field medical team at Adaptive Biotech, and hot off the press, just started this week.
So really excited about that. And previous, to the role that I'm in today, I worked, at Janssen Oncology, part of J&J, for a little over 8 years, supporting the hematology oncology space, and that's where I'm still at today. Awesome. Well, congratulations on your new job, Amy. That's great. Best of luck. Thank you. Yeah. So Vanessa. Yeah. Thanks, Tom. Hi, everyone. So Vanessa Jacobson. I also am a pharmacist by training.
I am the executive director of the field medical organization at Nektar Therapeutics. I've joined, Nektar a little over a month ago. I too was at j and j and, Sue and worked closely with both of them. I was at J&J for 15 years in different roles in field medical. So happy to be here today. Awesome. So thank you guys again for joining me. Let me just explain kinda what we did.
So I had surveyed, my LinkedIn community asking questions or asking the community to provide questions for us to answer, because I get a lot of requests, each week and, from people. Hey, Tom. Can you cover this, or can you find out about that? So we decided to do a special double episode, if you will. There's gonna be a part 1 and a part 2, where I have these 3 lovely ladies, experts, answering questions from the MSL community. So I picked out of a hat.
I'm gonna start with Vanessa and the fur I'm sorry, with Sue. And the first question that I got was, for aspiring MSLs with experience, mainly in academia, what specific types of industry experiences are best to obtain prior to applying for your first MSL role? That's a really good question. And to start off with it, it depends really a lot on what your, terminal degree is. Are you a PhD? Are you a PharmD? Are you a PhD in nursing or, you know, a nurse?
I would say that, you know, if you're in academia and you aspire to be an MSL, the most important thing to do would be to specialize. Right? So, hopefully, you are already specialized. And if you wanna become an oncology MSL, then it would be important for you to have oncology experience with that organization that you're currently with in any way, shape, or form.
If you are, let's say, a pharmacist or a PharmD and you wanna become an MSL, and let's just say you live in the Houston area and you work for a smaller community hospital or something like that, probably the best thing to do is to go get a job at MD Anderson as your if you are looking at oncology, of course, as that specific prior role to coming into industry. You know, work at MD Anderson. You know, what we really look for are folks that, a, have the scientific acumen. Right?
So are you specialized in that area that you're applying for? And, b, do you have relationships? So do you know the doctors and the nurses and the pharmacists and all the folks that you'll be calling on in that specific area at a key institution that we really need? So those would really be my you know, to answer it quickly, those would be my 2 top things to do prior to coming into industry. You know, and it also depends on what type of MSL role you wanna be.
Are you looking to be an MSL in, let's say, health economics or in the payer space? If you really wanted to go there, then my next step would go work for an insurance company like a Blue Cross Blue Shield or an Aetna, you know, and get that experience so that you can say you actually worked with those customers. That's great advice. Thank you, Sue. Okay. Next up, Amy. So one of the guests on this show mentioned the importance of having 1 or even 2 mentors.
How does a person approach a potential mentor, and how open are our guests, so medical affairs leaders, to accepting this request? And what is the eligible criteria for a mentee? Yeah. I think that's such a great question. And it's hard to answer that so quickly because I think there's 3 parts of that question, but I'll I'll do my best. You know, first part being, you know, how are you gonna approach that mentor?
I think the first thing that's most important is to develop a relationship, a genuine relationship with that person. I think kind of cold calling someone to be your mentor out of the blue would would not be my recommendation. So finding the right person to be your mentor, I think, is the first step. And so cultivating a relationship, identifying someone that you, you know, aspire to be or has really the qualities that you are hoping to develop or those skill sets that you're hoping to develop.
And finding that right person, I think, is the first step. And then once you have that connection, it could be someone you work with. It could be someone outside of your organization. It could be a friend. It could even be a family member. Once you identify that person, I think, you know, that outreach or approach is really just coming from a place with a specific ask. So, you know, why do you want them to be your mentor, and what are you hoping to get out of their mentorship?
I think, you know, just saying, hey. Will you be my mentor is not gonna get you very far. So really thinking through, you know, what do you need from this person and how can they help you get there would be kind of that first approach. And then I think the second question was the the leaders on this call, how they feel about mentorship, and are they open to that? And I, you know, I don't wanna speak for Sue or Vanessa, but I I think many leaders, if not all, are very much open to mentorship.
I've been very fortunate myself to have amazing mentors, who have really helped me along the way, and, you know, I wanna give that back to others. I I love mentoring. I really enjoy it. So, certainly, that's something I'm open to. I think the rate limiting step in that, though, is time. You know, it can't be a full time mentor. All of us have full time jobs, so I think it's just finding that right match between the mentee and the mentor.
And then last but not least, correct me if I'm wrong, I think the question was, kind of the eligible criteria for a mentee. And I I think I kinda touched on this, but I would narrow it down to, you know, mutual interest, and benefit between the two individuals of, you know, where you're trying to go and what you're trying to accomplish.
And then the med t should really be setting clear goals and expectations of what those conversations look like and what they're hoping to, gain from the mentorship. And then I would say last but not least is just showing up prepared and maximizing your mentor's time and then pulling through any follow-up. Perfect. Awesome. Thank you. That's a that's a great answer, and that's great advice. So, Vanessa, question for you.
How can one smoothly onboard or transition to an MSL position and make an impact in the 1st 3 to 6 months? Yeah. Great question, Tom. So I think one of the most important things to ensuring a quick start is developing a very comprehensive 30, 60, 90 day plan. I know a lot of people talk about the 30, 60, 90 but I really do believe get your thoughts down on paper and share it with your manager and ask for their feedback on it.
Ask if what you're planning and your approach is reasonable and going to get you to where they wanna see you, in a in a very, you know, expeditious manner. So the 30, 60, 90 is key. I also think, you know, in parallel, meet get out there and meet your partners, whether it's internal partners within the company. So if it's on the commercial side or the research and development side or various other in house functions, get out there and meet them and we could do that virtually in this day and age.
And then also get out there and meet your customers because you can't start soon enough developing these important relationships. And so you need to be out there networking and talking to people.
And then in your spare time, of which you'll probably have very little, you really do need to set aside time to study because this is is a gift of time that you're given as a new hire to really learn the data, the competitive landscape, the disease areas, and you definitely wanna maximize that because, you know, once you're out in the field, you're not going to have that gift of time again. And scientific acumen, as Sue mentioned earlier, is really critical. Awesome. Great. Thank you.
Okay. So back to Sue. So someone had said that they'd love to learn about how experienced MSLs expect the role to change in a post COVID world. Yeah. Well, wouldn't we all like to know that? I I don't have a crystal ball. I don't think any of us do. You know, just purely based on educated guess, I would say post COVID, you know, I don't think face to face interactions will ever go away for the MSL organization.
We can accomplish so much when we're face to face in front of our customers, but I do think that we will have more of a mix of remote and face to face. So where your organization may have been, let's say, 20% remote, 80% face to face coming into COVID before COVID started, you know, we might see more of, like, a 6040 split or maybe even a 5050 split.
I think the OLs that we see or the HCPs, whatever you wanna call them, your customers, they're quite used to now, you know, 6, 8 months into COVID 19, of conducting business virtually, and they actually quite like it. You know what I mean? They they they can fit it into their day. They don't have to have somebody coming into their office. You know? So I think there is gonna be that contingent of HCPs that are just gonna say, nah. Just, you know, let's do a Zoom call. You know?
You don't need to fly all the way in here. Just Zoom me. You know? Just do Zoom or just send me an email. We hear a lot of that now, and I just don't really see that going away so much. So that would be the biggest thing that I think is just the frequency of really face to face will probably have to be altered. Alright. Good. Awesome. Thank you for that. So, Amy, back to you.
As an aspiring MSL, when going through rounds of interviews, how can you make yourself stand out versus a seasoned MSL who is also going through the same exact interview as you? So maybe I'll I'll share a couple of examples of candidates who have really stood out to me and some of the things that that they've done. I think Vanessa touched upon it earlier. It's 30, 60, 90 day plan.
So really having a well thought out game plan on how are you gonna get up to speed and be effective in this role even without that MSL experience. So thinking through that and maybe having a slide or something to share and print it out with you, well, now we're in the virtual environment. So I guess something you could email, the team afterwards to show you put some time and thought, into that if you don't get a chance to cover it during your interview.
Additionally, really knowing the company and your passion for the role.
I think for me, candidates who do not have MSL experience, if I can really see their drive and ambition and their passion of why they wanna come specifically to to my company and, you know, they know the pipeline, the latest and greatest data and news that really shows that they want this, and they've already taken the steps to learn about the company, the culture, and the product in the therapeutic areas that they would support.
And then, last but not least, I've actually seen a candidate come in with a a territory plan, which was incredible. You know, it doesn't have to be extremely detailed, but just really thinking through the key institutions within the region, how would you approach them, kind of strategies on how you would manage and think through that territory are 3 ways that I've seen, make an impact for me as a a leader of an organization for MSL. That's great. That's great.
And if I could chime in, you know, the some of the feedback that I get, from folks like yourselves is that one of the biggest separators is interest, and and you let and you had said that. You know, someone that's gonna just look like they're gonna run through a brick wall, and really truly do everything it takes, to be successful in that role. All things being equal, when it comes down to it, the person that shows that they want the position more typically winds up getting it.
So I think if you bring a genuine level of interest, you dot every, you know, dot every t, cross every I. Actually, it's the opposite. Cross every t, dot every I, and do everything it takes. That's it's it's putting together all those small pieces. And for someone that is not an MSL that put together a territory plan, they obviously had to go out and ask for help with that because they don't have the experience. So what does that show you? That shows you effort. That shows you interest.
That shows you that they're gonna do what it takes. So that's what I've seen on my side just for me to jump in. I'm not gonna jump in too much more because this is all about you guys. So Vanessa, you're up. This person said that they'd love to know what piece of advice each of you guys would go back and share with yourselves, as students or new graduates. Oh, I love that question. Do we have an hour to talk about that? No. Just kidding.
In all seriousness, I think, this is advice that was given to me, very early, in my life, and it's something that I think about every day and it's slow and steady wins the race. It's not a sprint, it's a marathon. When you're in school and you're just graduating from school, you have a lot of runway ahead of you. So you really wanna build a very strong base of experience and skills and think about it for the long haul.
And, I think that served me well, and that would be advice that I'd offer, to others. That's great advice. I'm gonna take it myself. Mhmm. I like that. I have a lot of runway ahead of me. Right? Maybe? No? That's cute. Yeah. Whatever. Yeah. Sure. Okay, Tom. Keep telling yourself that. Sue, we are back to you.
So does a certification from maybe, like, the MSL Society or the ACMA really give an MSL, aspiring MSL or an experienced MSL who is looking to switch companies or move up the ladder and advantage? At least from my perspective, and I'd love to hear from Vanessa and Amy, it has never really made the the actual certification has not made a difference to me.
I think where it can help somebody, though, especially if you're an aspiring MSL and you really have no idea what an MSL does, I think going through the process of getting that certification does a good job of giving you a good idea of what an MSL does so that when you're in the interview process, you can answer that question when I ask you. So what's the day in the life of an MSL look like? You know, you have a good grasp of it. You know what you're getting yourself into.
You know what an MSL does. But the fact that you have a certificate that says that you went through that really doesn't hold a lot for me. I mean, what's much more important to me is, let's say, you're a PharmD and you're a BCOP certified. Right? You've got that board certification in oncology, and you're aspiring to be an oncology, MSL. That means a lot to me. It means a lot to me that you did a residency or a fellowship postdoc in the specialty that I'm looking at. Right?
So those sort of things mean things to me, but the certificate, not so much other than it will probably really help you in the interview process. So what if okay. So, Amy, what do you think about that? Yeah. I think it's it's hard to answer that because I think for you know, as a hiring manager, it's hard to put on, you know, that MSL hat and say, you know, I don't have I have a fellowship in in my background, but not any of those specific types of certifications.
And so I'd have to lean towards, you know, being where, Sue's perspective and the fact that it's not a necessity or requirement. I think, you know, does it help with the transition and help with you maybe getting up to speed quicker? Perhaps, because you have that better understanding when you join, but I don't think it's going to, you know, make or break a decision, at least for me individually as a hiring manager. And what about you, Vanessa? What do you think?
If you see BCMAS on a resume or MSLBC, does it make you think differently about that that candidate? Yeah. I agree with Sue. No. It doesn't, actually. It's kind of it's just ancillary. I don't think I would use it as a differentiator, quite frankly. Yeah. What I what I do like about, folks that have taken the initiative to get a certification is it does show a commitment. It shows a commitment to the role. It shows a commitment to that person's career.
I think it may help to as Amy said, and Sue said too, I think it's great to for them to kinda ramp up and have an understanding of what you know, establish a kind of a bit of a background because they don't have anything else to draw off of. So for that, I think that, if they are willing to make the investment, it's it couldn't hurt them.
But I do appreciate your perspectives, and I think it's a very good question because I think there's a lot of people out there that are, you know, thinking about whether or not they should. So I think for the right reasons, yes. But it but, obviously, it sounds like it's not a mandatory. So here's what we're gonna do. We're gonna take a break, and that'll this will be the end of part 1. And then we're gonna come back, and we're going to have part 2.
So thank you guys again for joining me, and we'll be back soon. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future. And feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.