Hey guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guests today are Donnie Wooten of Oregonon and Kelly Lowe of Amgen. Both are field medical excellence experts. And we talk about the demystifying and unpacking of omnichannel engagement. Great conversation. The opinions expressed by my guests today are their own and not representative of their respective companies. Quick announcement.
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Hey, Kelly and Donnie. Welcome to the podcast. How are you guys doing? We're good. Good morning. How are you? Awesome. Hey, Kelly. I'm great, Tom. So, guys, excited about this topic. Thanks for joining us. You may recall that Donnie and I did an omnichannel episode 2 years ago. This is a follow-up. This is, like, part 2, or like a status update. So we're gonna talk about that. Before we do, I'm gonna let both of my guests introduce themselves. So, Kelly, let's start with you.
Thank you, Tom. This is Kelly Lo here, and a great pleasure to be here today. I am, the few medical excellence lead for Global and also Asia Pacific at Amgen. I'm based in Hong Kong currently. Yeah. So Kelly's in Hong Kong, and it's it's 7 AM our time. And, Kelly, what time is it your time? It's about 7:30 PM. Alright. So we're putting we're we're putting a lot of, effort together to get this going for you guys.
So, and then Donnie had a lot of technical issues this morning, but we're here and we're doing it. So, Donnie, how are you, my friend? I'm good. I'm good. And, thank you all, and thanks thank you, Kelly, for joining. So, I'm Donnie. I'm the global head of the strategic medical content and omnichannel team at Organon. And both Kelly and I serve as the co chairs for the field medical working group at MAPS omnichannel. So, I I couldn't have had this conversation with you without bringing Kelly in.
And so, one, thank you, Kelly, for being willing to join all the way from Hong Kong and Dau in. 2 years ago, you and I had the chance to talk to him, and we really talked from an entry level conversation. Like, what is Omnichannel? How does it apply to the field medical group? We've seen some evolution, but we've also seen that it's still in kind of that state where people are getting comfortable with it.
Mhmm. First, you'll see that companies are now opening up a number of roles that are really targeted to omnichannel orchestration, specifically in medical affairs. You also notice that people are building pillars for their business, like there's a channel lead, there's a content lead, and trying to create some ways that they talk more consistently together. So the the organizational medical files affairs is certainly catching up. We're not there.
And I can say that from our time in medical affairs, professional society meeting in Puerto Rico this year. We did the same thing, Kelly, that we did last year where the year before. But we had everyone kinda select, are you new to this? Are you really kinda starting out? Are you the expert? And a lot of people were still in that too. Like, they're like, we're figuring it out. But we did see a lot more migration from that one place to the two place. So I think we're we're moving along.
There's a lot of questions still out there on how do we do this and integrate it for the Phil Medical Group. Yeah. And I think that's why we decided to have this conversation was because when 2 years ago, it was so new. And I think people were really excited about it, and they were, like, really trying to figure out how do we do this? How do we adopt it? How do we implement it? And and, you know, what exactly, you know, do we need to know?
And then 2 years later, at MAPS and at some of the other meetings, there there's been a lot of questions. Like, are we doing this right? We're having some issues. We're having you know, it it's not it it we feel like we're we're missing pieces. And that's why I wanted to have this conversation. So, what I'm hearing you say, Donnie, is that you feel like this has definitely been embraced and people are doing great things with Omnichannel.
So but the question I think that people are are all wondering is, like, what's working right now, and what's going well. And then obviously, we're gonna talk about, you know, what may we may need to be done better. So, Kelly, why don't you jump in and tell us a little bit about your thoughts on where things stand right now? Sure, Tom. And when it when we talk about omnichannel, I think there are a few elements that we talk about when it comes to building that omnichannel strategy. Right?
And so we talk about having a very personalized approach, knowing your HCPs, knowing their their preferences. We also need to build the relevant content. I also wanna from a channel perspective, building that channel and having a very consistent omnichannel engagement approach, with proficient MSL capabilities, and also talking about the seamless integration of the channels across across the different types of, channels that we built.
And finally, then it comes back to the evaluation of our data and how to integrate all the insights. Right? So so there are kind of like the these 5 elements that we talk about when it comes to omnichannel. And I think there are there are elements that we are, doing very well and that we over the the last few years or 2 years that we have definitely built, including areas on, gaining a very deep personalization and understanding of our HCPs.
I think a lot of the, the companies, they have developed their own way of segmentation. So really getting away from that one size fit all approach and being very specific about the HCPs' needs and their segments and their preferences. So I think we're doing really well on that.
And I think from a content perspective, we also gain a lot of experience in developing, bite size, contents or contents that are specific to different channels, to the different format of the channel where you're using mobile devices or whether you're using websites. So I think we're also doing quite well in a from a content perspective. I think the area that it's it's not working so well or we're still optimizing, is integrating the different channels.
And I think you all we all probably agree that we are doing individual individual channels pretty well right now, that that we know how how different channels should be integrated, the content that we developed for the different channels. But I think, personally, even, MiCompany, we're still learning on how to really fully integrating the different channels to make it a seamless experience for the HCPs. And that's what we always talk about when it comes to omnichannel.
I think there there are still some learnings there and and, areas for optimization is how do we get the different channels to talk and to create that very, smooth and effective journey for our XCPs. Yeah. Yeah. Donnie, can you add to that? Is there anything you wanna mention as it relates to both what's going well or what could be improved upon? Yeah. I I think Kelly hit the nail on the head. I think that an area that I'd also say is we're all having to embrace change.
So I don't know if change management is going perfect. I think that, some of the ways, like she said, content. We've got bite sized content now. I think you have individuals who've been doing a job really, really well, and their jobs are changing. They're being asked to look at content from a different land. So how do you also not only adopt omnichannel, but change management where you get people to see how to do their job different while it's valuable to the stakeholders?
So that's that's a challenge. I think also as she indicated about, like, that channel mapping is a channel. And who's the owner of that? I've heard this at MAPS, and across many companies where there's they're trying to figure out how do you partner with, sales or commercial in terms of how they're using those channels and the messages they're putting out. And so I see there meaning there'll be a stronger connection to our our cross stakeholder colleagues over on the commercial side.
How are we planning that together? Because it could be a little bit confusing. Because they could be doing something on a channel that really differs from what you're doing on a channel. And it's really about that provider journey, patient or payers journey that should really, really be mapped out. I think that what's going well is that we're seeing it adopted.
We see that the data shows, like, you'll see that LinkedIn now has this huge platform where they're targeting providers with the actual content that they want. If you do really well and you get your content and tell them you probably have people reaching out to you and saying, hey. I'm this person representing this company, and it's a pharma company. They're reaching directly to individuals.
I've had people directly reach out to me on the behalf of other companies that that they're sharing content with me that I was either looking for or that I was inquisitive about through my searching or through my, liking and following on LinkedIn. So you'll notice that a lot of companies have stood up their channels on LinkedIn. So there's a J and J Medical Affairs, Pfizer, the list just goes on. Mhmm. Where they're putting very specific medical content on those channels.
But to Kelly's point about that integration of it, it's gonna take time because first, you gotta build the channels. You gotta make sure you're on those spaces that your providers go to for that information. And I think for us, at least in the US, social media, specifically professional media, like LinkedIn is one of those big ones that we see a lot of people, absorbing content on those channels. Well, I just from all of the, from all the buzz. Right?
I'm glad to hear that there are so many things going well. And, obviously, there's there's more to do. And it change never happens immediately. It always takes time. I guess the, one of the questions that I'm left with is at this juncture, do you feel like Omni channel is living up to its hype? You know, and what's the potential like? Is there still a tremendous amount of potential? Kelly, let's start with you. Sure. And I think omnichannel is here to stay.
It's not going anywhere, and we're definitely, embarking and continuing this journey. And so from my own, company perspective, for example, is that we we've started omnichannel about 2 years ago, and we've developed the capabilities to embed it. And now and we have a, a specific task force, cross functional team to build the capabilities, to build the channels, the data structure to really support it.
And I think now is, really about embedding it to our daily, working, and it's really about making it an everyday part of our engagement journey. And so I think definitely, also, the omnichannel has evolved on how we approach engagement. I think definitely help us to think about scientific engagement in a very in a more open minded and innovative ways, and also open up a lot of opportunities for us to really, really think about the adoption of digital channels.
So I think definitely, omnichannel is here to stay, and it has sparked a lot of innovations and, and adopting the new digital channels. And so, I think as what Donnie has mentioned, it definitely will take some time for us to fully embed it. But I think the journey that we have taken so far, we have a lot of learnings from it, definitely. Yeah. And what about executive buy in? How important when it comes to omnichannel, how important is executive buy in in the success of omnichannel?
That's so funny you say that. It's huge. The 1st year we had this conversation at MAPS, and I don't know if you remember it, Kelly. We had the the table 3, which was a light amount of people who were doing it really well. And there were some of your big companies who were probably ahead of of of the curve. And one of the individuals there, I can't remember her name, I sat next to her. And she said to me, the most important piece is executive buy in.
And now having tried to integrate it on our side at Organon, and also hearing other people integrate it, and the challenges is essential. It's if you don't have the executive buy in, you're gonna run into a lot of hurdles. 1, you're gonna run into the hurdles of making sure you have the appropriate funding for it. Because if you don't have the funding for it, you're gonna be limited on what you can do.
If you don't have executive buy in, you're gonna run-in the hurdles of the strategic, execution of it. Meaning, if those individuals aren't integrating it into their strategic plans, like your your strategist in the medical affairs side, they won't be doing it and thinking about it. And then you'll also run into how do you cross functional partner, like, succinctly.
You'll run into your legal or compliance people not being aware if that executive buy in hasn't been adopted across the organization. So I would say it's huge. I do wanna just make a a quick point about what you asked Kelly. Like, is it is it worth the hype? Is it is it valuable? More than 75% of providers, KOLs, are on their digital devices. If you're not producing content that is reaching them, you're not hitting your message.
Long gone are the days that we can just walk into those providers offices and have a robust conversation over launch. They're doing 10, 12, 13 things, in addition to getting 10, 12, 13 emails and and publications that you really need to tap into them in a very effective way, in the way they want to to evolve and discuss that content. So I think if you're not doing it, you're gonna miss the opportunity spaces.
It's gonna continue to grow, and it's worth the company taking those hurdles now to really be effective at it. But I would say it's it's it's highly worth it, and we're seeing people adopt it. But that buy in is quintessential. You know, it's interesting, and and it's funny you should say that I wrote that down. You know, I the the 75% of KOLs are on their digital devices. That number is not going down. It's going up. Right? That number is going up.
So I think, and and, you know, looking at the title of this episode, demystifying and unpacking omnichannel engagement. The purpose of this conversation wasn't to was to to take a a little bit of a a shine a spotlight on where we're at, where we've been, but also where we're going. So, one of the things that I know you and I talked about, Donnie, and, Kelly, I wanna hear what you think.
But when it comes to the current challenges, are the challenges more an issue of company misdirection or MSL execution? Right. And, it's I I think it's, it's it's it's neither, actually, in my personal opinion. I think it takes time for this kind of, omnichannel approach to be embedded in different companies. Right? And it's just like a product or a framework. It takes time to for for each company to digest.
And each company has its own structure, its own funding structure, its own team structure. And so same as omnichannel, there's no one size fit all. And so I think and it only has been a few years. Right? And the first first couple of years, we talk about the framework. We talk about the key elements when it comes to omni omnichannel approach. And so then each company would have to build their own specific framework that will work for their company.
And and then it takes time to to test and, you know, to learn and to build capabilities. So I think the current challenges is really coming down to the company and the teams, to really be able to identify a way to to fully embed the structure into their organization, to fit in their organization culture, the capabilities that they build, or the channels that they adopt. So, I think every company realized the importance of omnichannel and definitely would have put an emphasis on omnichannel.
And from a MSL execution perspective and, at at Amgen, I think the MSL has has executed the omnichannel, capabilities very well. They've been very agile. When we provide training, I think they're going out to to try and test and use. And so I think from those two perspective, we are on the right track. And so I think it's really about finding their way for the individual companies on on how to embed it. And sometimes it would take some time and learning, and so yeah.
I I I but but I think that, the current challenges is really about how how do we integrate? How do we integrate the different channels? And, also, how do we connect it back to the key questions that we're trying to answer when we develop that omnichannel strategy, right, to that key business question and to really come back to how do we measure whether Omnichannel has has answer or has helped to answer that key business questions that we set out to answer at the at the beginning.
Yeah. Donnie, what do you think? Well, there's a few questions in there. Like, how do we measure? How do we, is it what are the challenges? I I'll I'll start with the the challenges. And I I agree with I agree with Kelly. I don't I don't know if it's just one challenge alone versus just getting people to adopt the way of working. It's a new way of working. Mhmm. There are organizations that I've been a part of where it was really, like, known. Like, you do not partner with your sales rep.
It was like a big sandbox. You don't play in the sandbox. Companies were under, you know, OIGs and they couldn't do certain things. This is the way it work. It says, if you're not partnering, you're missing an opportunity. Obviously, sales should not drive medicals initiative. Neither should commercial drive medical strategy. But they should be able to understand what the provider experience is because he or her does not separate it. What that looks like.
They don't know when they're strolling through their phone or through their computer that, oh, this is medical. Let me put my medical hat on. This is commercial. Let me put my commercial hat on. I think the field teams are are beginning to do this quite quite well and comfortably. Ideally, say, where are we going? I see a world where you see MSLs who are reaching out to individuals and saying, hey, doctor.
I'm hosting this particular conversation on this disease data that we are exploring an opportunity to increase, you know, patients' success. We have a product, and I always wanna educate you about the disease and actually this this particular, area of interest. I see them hosting that on their own LinkedIns, on their own channels, and they could take their providers through that journey. And they could see, like, oh, doctor x followed me and looked at this on my LinkedIn.
I could see them taking that conversation in the office and saying, hey, we've launched that product that I was telling you about early on that we were exploring for this disease state. It's now approved. Can I come and make sure that your your team is comfortable with how to use it and manage it for the right patient? I can see that. I see that as a future. That when you think about the field teams, we know that that's going that direction now.
Like I said, I get email from, field field individuals from companies on LinkedIn exactly that way. Emailing me about data, sharing it with me on LinkedIn. I can only imagine if I respond back and say thank you for sharing this. They know that I've looked at it. They know that if I see doctor Wooten, I'm gonna ask him what is his take on it. I'm gonna infuse those listening priorities that are more relevant to someone who's already aware on the journey versus someone who's not.
So I I think that people are embracing it. I think to Kelly's point, it's about how do you integrate it? How do you get someone comfortable to say, hey, it's not something totally new. It's just the way you integrate your approach. So I believe we'll see more of those engagements digitally online with field medical teams. I think that we'll have more aligned metrics that we can show. Obviously, you said, what are the metrics that we can look at? You have the vanity metrics.
Does this person open this email? Did he or her watch this video? How long were those? But then you want those, you know, really action metric metrics that show you, like, you know what? We launched this product, and we had a targeted program. And this ZIP code, we can look at that data, those NPI numbers, and see, are they taking the action that we anticipated? They have the largest patient profile of those particular patients, and we see them providing care for them with this new product.
So I think that's where we're going. I mean, this is just mine and many, many people that Kelly and I work with through MAPS' thoughts and opinions on it. But I think it's all about waiting and watching because, also, the thing that I think will come up to conversation with Omnichannel is certainly regulatory. How is the OPDP, Office of Prescription Drug Promotion, how are they gonna start measuring these these messages when they have more messages out there than ever before?
So I think those are the things that we'll look for in the future as we evolve. And I do realize that I gave you guys a very loaded question by asking yeah. The challenges or is it more on, like, you know, the company direction, or is it more on the MSL execution? And and and the reason it's a loaded question is because I think the and you guys answered it beautifully. I'm I'm just like, I look from my own lens and realize I deal with a lot of different types of companies, different sizes.
And when when you look at the magnitude of their small companies that they may have a lot of greater issues in implementing omnichannel than larger companies that have more infrastructure. So the there there's gonna be a really wide array of challenges, and the answer to that question, I think, is is is more probably we could probably do a whole podcast on just that.
But I think what I'd like to know now, and I think what the audience kinda wants to know, is what are you what else are you seeing right now in Omnichannel right now as it stands currently and where we're going that's notable to mention? Like, what are the things that people hey. You know what? People really need to know this. Kelly, let's start with you. Sure. And and I think I really want to, echo on what Donnie has mentioned on the journey that we have taken so far.
And I think we're at a very exciting, interesting juncture right now, and I cannot leave this podcast without mentioning AI. And I think AI is the next thing that when it comes to omnichannel, that is something that we need to think about how to integrate. Right? And AI give will give us so much capabilities and, and advancement in the way that we work.
So I think as as as Donnie has mentioned on the journey that we have taken so far on omni channel that we start to embed it, integrate it, use it, execute it. With AI, that comes with the next wave of learnings for us. Right? And and AI can really help us to transform the way that we create content. It can help us to, profile our our doctors or analyze our our data differently. And so I think right now, it's something that we would think about as a next step.
We'll be thinking about how to integrate AI into the omnichannel journey. Or, basically, I I think most of you would agree that basically in everything that we do, and omnichannel is is definitely one of the areas that we need to look into, how we can optimize or use the AI capabilities to, to help us do things more efficiently. Donnie, I agree with I agree with Kelly. I don't even know if I have anything you need to add. I think she is spot on.
Whether you're a big company or a small company targeting any disease areas or just a really rare disease, this this particular way of working has shown ROI. Rather, if it's a a 10% increase or a 20% increase, the reason companies are invested in it is because of the fact that they know that there's value there. There's value in integrating an experience. And I say this all the time.
Like, if you're going to buy that shirt at Macy's, and all of a sudden, Macy's targeting you in all these spaces, and you take action on that, based off of how they target your interest. It's it's it's a proven model that works in this digital arena that we're in. So that's why companies are embracing it.
And like I said, if it's big or small, if you're small and you're doing a rare disease, it might be easier to execute an omnichannel strategy because you have a very limited provider type, a limited patient type that you can really focus and execute that very harmoniously without a lot of confusion of, like, we have many assets, you know, we have many providers. But how do you do that if you have one provider who's only treating this particular, you know, this particular cancer?
But then you have the urologist and then, you know, the oncologist. How do you create that journey for those 2 individuals? It could be a little bit, like, cumbersome. But I think that a company's willingness to embrace it is their commitment to go through the future and be ready, and work through those challenges. You know, you're gonna hit hurdles, you're gonna hit, you know, some snags, but that's a part of the process. We're all learning and we're all evolving.
So I I I love talking to people like Kelly and and, my colleagues over at Astellas that, Fran that was there, like, just learning, about what people are doing and how they're doing it. And to Kelly's earlier point, every company's approach is gonna be very different. Yeah. And before we I I really have to there's a there's one more question I have to ask because there's, obviously, this is there's so many MSLs that listen to this, and a lot of this conversation has been somewhat strategic.
But I wanna talk about what advice you both have for MSLs as they're out there in the field doing, you know, their day job. What what advice do you have for MSLs as it relates to omnichannel right now? Thank you for that question. I really like this question, Tom. I think it brings us right back to, the core of what we do with few medical team. And I think my advice will be to be proactive and to be involved because I think the MSLs are really a forefront team.
They're be very engaged with our HCPs, and they have that very valuable insights about our HCPs. And they learn about our HCPs reactions to how the different channels, are working, their responses, after a webinar. And they are the ones that would talk to the HCPs after they have been engaged with the different channels.
And so, while I know that the MSLs may not be involved in every part of the omnichannel, decision or the development of the omnichannel strategy, But I think, being able to be proactive to share the very valuable insight to your medical advisers or or the team that are developing that omnichannel campaign, I think that will bring a lot of really, really helpful insights, and and learnings to the team so that they can continue to evolve and optimize the
strategies or all the tools that we use for omnichannel. So I really encourage myself to be more involved in the process. Mhmm. I agree with Kelly. I would say some actionable things that a MSL or medical adviser around the world could do is get involved into those channels that your providers and your patients and payers are on. Like, follow them on LinkedIn. Follow them on those professional channels that you know, are of interest to them.
You'll get to understand them a little bit more, and you can bring back valuable insight to your company about how those individuals are taking in information, where their sentiment is. I would also say, get involved in your company. Attend those talk town halls where they're having those business conversations about how the company is doing.
There was a lot of questions at MAPS this year and last year where we found out one of the key things that people are asking for on the medical affairs side is more business acumen. The way that you can do that is getting involved in those town halls so you can see, like, okay, not only do I know what I need to do in the field, I know where my company is. I know what the big strategy is and how I fit into that, and you can plan appropriately.
And then, finally, I would say be proactive personally. Like, read, learn, experience what other people are doing. Ask questions when you attend these conferences, like ASCO and you run it to another MSL. How are you all doing it over at, you know, Amgen? How are you all doing this? How and make yourself better because as we evolve into this space, everybody's gonna have to do their own part, and it'll be a personal commitment for each and every person in it.
You know, I knew this was gonna be good. You guys are awesome. This was such a great conversation. Donnie, Kelly, thank you both for joining this podcast. And for all of you guys listening, you should really share this. I mean, this is an episode I know I say this all the time, but this really is an episode that you guys need to share. So thank you all for your support. Don't forget to register for Mass West. It's coming up September 25th 26th. I'd love to see you guys there in San Diego.
And as always, really appreciate you all for watching the show. We'll see you next time. Thanks, Tom. Thanks, Kelly. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.