Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. Today, my guest is myself, believe it or not. So Bridget Rasmussen is joining me on the podcast, and we're gonna kinda flip the script. And she's going to interview me, and we're gonna talk a little bit about my background, my story. But mostly, it's about career advice, career development. But a lot of people have asked recently if if I can do a podcast like this. So happy to do it. I hope you guys enjoy it. It was a lot of fun.
And don't forget to follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, YouTube, all that stuff. And check us out on MSL talk live on Clubhouse, the first Tuesday of every month at 1:30 EST. Welcome to MSL Talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hello, Bridget. Hey, Tom. How are you? I am awesome. Thank you for joining me again on this podcast. It's awesome to be back. They say 3rd time is the charm. So time's the charm. Well Let's do it.
We're doing something different, folks. The so I've had a lot of people ask me recently if we can kind of flip the script and do a different type of podcast where I'm the guest and kinda tell my story. So I know we do a lot of career transition stories and career journey stories, and we get advice from a lot of folks. So we're gonna do that today. Only I'm gonna be on the hot seat. But I'm not gonna make this just about, you know, my story, Tom Cabela.
It's gonna be a lot of career advice that I'm gonna offer. But Bridget's gonna ask me the question, so I'm gonna leave it up to her. So, Bridget, this is your podcast. Alright, Tom. Well, welcome to my podcast. This episode is what I like to call the give the people what they want episode, the Tom story. And it's funny because when I was recruiting, a lot of people would ask me details about, you know, how you got into pharma, the history behind the name of our company, all that kind of stuff.
So I think people have a real curiosity about, you know, how you landed in this position and, you know, how you've just become a medical expert over the years. So first question, dispel the myth for us. I get this question all the time from people. Do you have a daughter named Caroline or Caroline? Because that's a frequent question that I get a lot. It is. I know. And the answer is no. No. I don't. My daughter's not named Carolyn. My wife is not named Carolyn.
The name of the company, the Carolyn Group came from combining two last names. So when I first started the business, I had a partner and his last name was Dolan. So we were trying to come up with this. It's not easy coming up with the name of a company. So we just Carabella Dolan and came up with Carolyn, and and it kinda stuck. Now coincidentally, it that partnership didn't last. I actually bought him out in, like, within 6 months. It just didn't work out. Great guy. Just didn't work out.
But I kept the name, and here we are 20 years later. Wow. Go figure. Awesome. Sometimes I get emails, dear miss Carolyn, and I'm like, I'm not Carolyn. Tom doesn't have a daughter named Carolyn. You know, there there's no reference to Carolyn or Caroline. So let's kick things off, Tom, with your story and just start at the beginning. So college, where did you go and what did you what did you wanna do? Did you have a real sense growing up of what you wanted to be when you grew up? No idea.
I still don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out. No. I I I honestly when I went to I went to college well, I I I wanted to I wanted to do a sport in college, and I was I I kinda felt like I was too small to play football. And I chose Rutgers. I went to Rutgers University. Shout out to all my Rutgers RU alumni out there. Loved it. Had an awesome experience. I wrestled there. It was great. But I didn't know what I wanted to do.
You know, I was I came I was raised in a family that was like, you're gonna be a doctor or a lawyer, and it just that I kinda knew that wasn't me. My whole life people have been telling me, you know, you're a natural salesman. You know, you should sell something. So I think in my head, I always felt like I needed to get into a sales job.
So I went to becoming a communications major and took a lot of courses in, you know, like, the interpersonal side of communications, not like TV, radio, and film. It was more like nonverbal communications, public speaking, and, those types of things. And, and and that was kind of the direction I took. That's awesome. Well, you just you're probably the most charismatic person that I know personally. So I think that just that route makes so much sense for you. So why pharma?
How and where did you land your first pharma role? Because I think that's kind of a best kept secret on our side, the fact that you actually started your career in the pharmaceutical industry in the field. I did. But it would you know, interesting stories. So people always ask you, how did you get your first job, or how did you transition from this to that? And we've heard that on this podcast so many times. And we talk about networking and and that sort of thing.
But I landed my first job at a college from a friend. A buddy of mine that I was close with graduated a year ahead of me. We kept in touch. He came to visit, and he I'll I'll never forget. He he came, like, strolling in. He had his new company car, and he was not bragging, but he was excited about his new job. And he's like, I'm gonna introduce you to my manager. I'm gonna get you a job. And I was like, that sounds great to me.
So I got an interview at a company called US Healthcare, which, this is like back in the late eighties, early nineties. And I got a job selling HMO plans. At that point, no one knew what an HMO was. Wow. It was an interesting first job. It was awesome training. And I did that for a couple of years, and then I I don't know. I always really admired the pharmaceutical industry. I guess, being in New Jersey, the mecca well, back then, it was the mecca of the pharmaceutical world.
So I started to look after a couple years and saw an ad in the paper. Back then Wow. Like, really, there was no Internet. And I you have to get the Sunday paper in order to see the classifieds. So I started applying ads, and I wound up landing my first job in pharmaceutical sales, from an ad in the paper. That is awesome. Believe it or not. So tell us a little bit about your pharma journey from there. What was it like? What types of roles did you have kinda throughout your tenure in industry?
So funny story. And we talk about interview stories and how things are kinda meant to be and and how things wind up. But when I when I got my farm what happened was when I got my interview, I had for the company that I work for. So I worked for Ross Laboratories, which eventually was bought by Abbott Laboratories. Ross is in the nutritional space. So I was like a field nutritional rep for, for a company that a large nutritional company, huge player in the space. I loved my job.
I loved the opportunity. It was great. But I had an before that happened, I had another offer with another company. And I almost didn't go on the interview. I was gonna cancel the interview. But something in me just told me, do the phone screen, talk to the person, and see what happens because I didn't accept the other position. And I was kinda waiting on it. It was one of those situations where, yeah, we'll get back to you kind of thing, but we think we're gonna move forward.
Well, long story short, I had an amazing conversation with my manager back then, for, like, an hour and a half on the phone. And she said, I I wanna meet you tomorrow. I wanna interview you tomorrow in Morristown. I'll never forget. And I walked into the interview. I'm like, let me do this because I really had a connection with her. I walked in, and there she was, my manager, and she's, like, 9 and a half months pregnant. Like, she's, like, literally ready to give birth. So I was like, oh.
And she goes, now you see why I need to fill this position quickly? And we totally hit it off. I'm like, I wanna work for her. I wanna work for this company. And I get the offer, and then, coincidentally, I get the other offer right after. My mind was made up. And that's that's what I did. And I spent 10 years working for that company in a number of different roles, including I got involved in managed care for a while. I was a field trainer for many years throughout the northeast, which I loved.
And I wouldn't have traded it for the world. I thought it was an awesome, awesome opportunity for me. Yeah. It sounds like everything just aligned, and it was really it was really meant to be. That door just opened at the perfect time. And it's funny because you light up with so much passion and enthusiasm about the pharma industry and, you know, what you what you did in the field. So the $1,000,000 question that we're all wondering is, how did you ultimately wind up in recruitment?
Yeah. It just this is an interesting story, and it's so it it kinda goes back, and I'll make it brief, but it it goes back to when my son was born. My wife was working, and we're, you know, double income family living in North Jersey. You know, nice house, but it's expensive to live in North Jersey. And we were on a walk one day, and she's like, I'm, you know, I'm not going back to work. And I'm like, what do you mean? She's like, I wanna raise the kids.
I wanna have, you know, I wanna have a family. And and I would at that time, like, that wasn't an option. Like, we needed 2 incomes to do what we were doing. But, she was you know, we talked about it and she seemed like this is what she wanted to do. And she was like, you know, we'll figure it out. And to me, that was like, I'll figure it out because I had to I'm the provider. I had to figure it out.
Well, I started to think about what could I do kinda part time or maybe I can get involved in a business or something. I always wanted to have my own business. Well, about a week goes by. I don't know. It could have been a week. It could have been a day. It could have been a month. I don't know. But right after we had that conversation, I was working out in the gym on a machine. Guy gets on the machine next to me, and we start up a conversation. And he was a partner in an IT recruiting company.
And they just started, and they needed somebody to do, like, sales and marketing. And and he asked me, he's like, would you he's like, I know you're in sales. Would would you help us? So I was like, yeah. And that's how it started. I I was working kinda nights and weekends, anytime that I could, learning this business. We eventually got to the point where I was doing it full time. I quit I quit my job in pharmaceuticals, which I was that was a huge risk for me.
Huge. But something in me told me to do it. So I took a shot. I went to work with these guys, and it was great. And we were doing really well, and we were kinda killing it, until 911 happened. So September 11th happened, and it just crushed everything. It it crushed me personally. It crushed me professionally because my cousin Craig worked on the 100 and 4th floor of tower 1 for Cantor Fitzgerald. And nobody survived from but very few people survived from Cantor Fitzgerald.
So, our family was destroyed. 30 years old. Just, you know, married within 2 years. Had a 3 month old baby at home. And, it was tough. It was really hard. So we were dealing with that. And our business you know, the the recruiting side in in IT and finance took a huge hit. And at the time, it just the partners weren't really getting along, and, it was a bad time. It was a bad time. And something in me was like, you know what? You gotta take a shot. Now is your time.
You're meant for something other than this. And I decided to take my knowledge of the recruiting industry and apply it to the pharmaceutical industry, and I took a chance. Started the Carolyn Group with another guy who, at the time, kept asking me, hey. You wanna do something? You wanna do something? And, and I took a shot, and here we are. Wow. So just digging into that a little bit more, Tom, how exactly did the Carolyn Group come into being?
I know that you started with a partner, but how did it kind of what was the inception, and then how has it kind of evolved into what it is today? Yeah. That's a great question. And in its inception, what I did was I was I was pretty much a one man show. I had this partner, but he had you know, he was his job was just to, build the data bay. He was a technical guy, and he was gonna build the database.
And he said, I had all these I have all these connections and, you know, and we didn't know fully the direction, but we know we wanted it to be focused on pharma. Well, I landed my first client, like, literally overnight. I wound up getting a contract with Bristol Myers Squibb. And to this day, I still do work with BMS. Love BMS. Always have a special place in my heart. And we started to work on a variety of different positions, sales, marketing, bunch of different things.
And one day, interesting well, not interestingly enough, as fate would have it, one day, I get a phone call from, like, my best client calls me up, and she said, do you guys recruit MSLs? So there's, like, a pause. And she goes, you know, medical science liaisons. I'm like, oh, medical science liaisons. Of course, we do. Of course, I do not. I'm like, could you spell that? Is it l I a? Is there another I? So back then, that's 20 years ago almost.
Like, you know, we really didn't have MSLs the way we have them now. When when at my old company, we had a speakers bureau. So when you needed to have an expert go out and do a presentation, you had to pick from a list, and you had to go out and see if that person would be available, and then they would get paid a per diem. And that's how that that's how that worked out. But there was a real shift at that time towards building out MSL teams.
And we got involved with that at in that at that stage. And once we started recruiting MSLs, we just never looked back. So we started, like I said, like, probably 19 years ago, and that's pretty much all we did.
That's incredible that you have that history of seeing when people I remember you telling me once that you're applying clinical pharmacists out of out of clinical settings and placing them as MSLs and just how everything has shifted so drastically over time in terms of degree requirements and compensation parameters and all of that.
So it's so interesting that you've seen the entire history of the MSL job evolve really from when it started to take off, as being an integral component to pharma companies. So one question I have for you, Tom, that's kind of a little bit more now we're kind of slanting a little bit more towards your personal opinion, but as we know, pharma can be such a roller coaster of change and emotions and volatility.
So how do you remain so positive during the ups and downs of business, especially specializing within this field and running your own company? Yeah. It's tough. And, you know, that's a great question. It took me a long time, and I I have developed an approach where I just try to ride the middle. I try not to ride the highs and lows. I do celebrate the victories, but I do not let myself get crushed in defeat.
I have a philosophy where I just truly, truly believe that when one door shuts, another one opens. And I try to focus my attention on trying to find that next door and not dwell on the door that just shut. You know, if you look at Michael Jordan, Michael Jordan took 946 game winning shots. He only made a 146. That means that he missed 800 times. But what made him great and what everybody remembers is the 146. So my advice is take another shot. Take another shot. Not at the bar.
If you take too many shots at the bar, you're gonna wind up with other problems. Careful at happy hour. Oh, that's great. No. That that is, like, the perfect analogy and, the perfect link up. You know? And in hindsight, do you is there any advice that you'd go back to give your younger self, Tom? Yeah. Well, you know, I'm a I'm a pretty intense guy. And I just remember when I was younger, I I dwelled on things.
And I think that if I had to go back to my younger self, I would say, dude, don't sweat the small stuff. You know, it's important to focus your efforts on influencing positive you know, advance things in a positive way, ensure a positive outcome. So look at what you can influence to make things move forward, and don't stop and worry about what's happened in the past or dwell on what could happen. And I think that that's a mistake that a lot of people make. I know me I know my younger self.
I I I spent too much time worrying about what ifs and worrying about the problem. Now I think one of the things that I really try to do, and I try to get you guys to do on on our team, is to not dwell on the problem. Focus your energy on the solution. What's the solution? Where what's gonna get us to the next step and move things along? And that's what I try to do.
I think that's great, and I feel like I should just take a minute to jot that down because I definitely focus on the problem sometimes. And you can go negative, but I think you have such a knack for going positive and being resourceful and figuring it out and being a problem solver. So I think that's really exceptional advice. What do you ultimately believe it takes to be successful, and what is your secret to success? Wow. That's another good question.
And I think it's not like there I don't think there's one answer to that. I think that this is, like, a 2 or 3 part answer. But I think that one of the most important ways to be successful and find success is, 1st and foremost, you have to have goals. You have to spend some time with yourself, truly identify what your goals are, know what you want and what motivates you, write them down, and then take massive action towards those goals. I think that's first and foremost.
Number 2, I think it's really important to be able to get out of your comfort zone and do the stuff that you know you need to do, the hard stuff that you need to do, but you don't always wanna do. The stuff that you you put off to the next day or you put off until you're you feel like it. You have to convince yourself to do the tough stuff. There's an expression, if you want a hard life, make easy choices. If you want an easy life, make hard choices.
And that so for example, if you took time, let's just say each day to do 15 extra minutes of paperwork or do your expense report on a weekly basis instead of waiting until the end of the month where it just it compiles on itself. Or if you've been saying, well, I really need to start working out. Well, wake up a half hour earlier. That's hard. Sleeping in is easy. Waking up a half hour earlier is hard. So make those choices.
And whether it's personal or professional, you'll find success because your goals are gonna motivate you, and you're gonna start doing the hard stuff. But the other thing is and, the third thing is you you there's no substitute for hard work. You have to give a 110%. You have to outwork everyone else. And, you know, people say you know, people talk about luck. Well, so he's just got lucky or so and so got lucky. I don't believe in luck. I believe that luck is when hard work meets opportunity.
That's what I believe. It's funny. There's an expression, you know, the harder I work, the luckier I get. You know, it's not it's no mistake. And and I don't know if there's any Matthew McConaughey fans out there, but I love the dude. I love him as an actor. He just wrote a book, but he has an expression, don't half ass it. If you give a 110% in everything you do, when you leave the field, if you lost the game, you walk off knowing that you did everything that you could.
And that's what matters most, and that's what makes people successful. As you were talking, Tom, I I jotted down, 2 words 2 keywords from everything that you just said, maintenance and effort. So for for me, what has been inspiring working for you for almost 5 years now is every day, you come to the office at the same time. Every morning, you're there on time. Every morning, you go, you get your workout in, and it's inspiring.
It's you maintain a consistent level of effort throughout your professional and personal life. And I think that kind of is just you in a nutshell. You already mentioned a lot of great expressions just in your last answer, but what is your favorite quote? We've kinda tossed around a lot. Cliche. No. No. You're not. But what do you have a favorite that you revert to a lot? I I love quotes, and I I love expressions. And I think they're you know, people love motivational quotes.
You know what quote I love? I I love the quote. The only thing standing in front of you and your goals are the bullshit excuses that you keep telling yourself every day. Love it. It's the truth, man. No more excuses. Get rid of those excuses, and you'll start to see your goals come come true. You nailed it. My one of my personal favorites is just do it, the Nike slogan. Because for me, I'm an overthinker, so I constantly am thinking, oh, I don't know. I'm waffling.
And and I think you also exemplified the just do it. Just wake up, get your workout in, come to work, grind it out, work a long day, and it all comes together. Tom, what do you think the most important part of your job is? Well, my most I my most important job is to be a good dad and a good husband. That's first and foremost, and that's what motivates me every day. And I know that's not the question that you asked, and maybe I'm getting off topic here.
But, you know, I think we all find motivation in certain things. And I'm motivated to I've always been motivated to be a provider, provider for my family and for my kids. And, and that gets me up in the morning. But when I get to work, I think my most important job is to lead, is to take charge, and is to inspire others.
And lead from the front and be an example, not lead from behind and sit behind a desk and tell people what to do, but to just get in there in the trenches and try to motivate and inspire people to do better and be better. And that's that motivates me because I love that part of what I do. I mean, there's a lot of other things that are important, but I think that that's the most important thing for me.
You are. And I and I personally can attest to the fact that you are in the trenches every single day with us, you know, leading and providing guidance. And, you know, you're not one of those typical, you know, company owners where you're out golfing or I call you and you don't call me back and I'm just kind of left on my own devices. You're with us every day. You're so deeply entrenched with our candidates and our clients and just the medical affairs world in general.
And I think that has been another contributing factor as to why you've been so successful and you know why the Carolyn Group has really taken off. So let's shift it over a little bit to the job seeker. In your opinion, what are the biggest mistakes that you see job seekers making? Wow. That's a great question. And I think that it's a I think it's a lengthy answer just in the sense that, there's there's a lot of little things.
I think that job seekers fail in the small tiny details, not putting things together. And what I mean by that is if if you know, lack of follow-up. If if you're not following up, if you're not taking extra effort to really, on a daily basis, build your network and send out link LinkedIn connection request and research companies, you're not being efficient in your job search. You're not putting together the right effort from the start.
But then as you get further into the job search, we see mistakes where people are interviewing, and they they fail to prepare. You know, lack of preparation is a huge mistake for a job seeker. Not doing taking the extra effort to follow-up with a thank you note. Thank you notes are huge now, and it's such a no brainer. And a lot of times, it could make or break the job. Some people just look for that as kind of a let's call it a tie breaker. But, simple things like attire.
I mean, Bridget, we remember recently, we had somebody that well, not recently. It was before COVID. But we had somebody that nailed the interview but didn't get the job because of the shoes that they were wearing. And the feedback was, I would hire that guy. But if he consciously made the choice to put those old beaten up shoes on, then there's a problem. So, I mean, those are tiny details. Look your best, eye contact, you know, create ask good questions, create good connections.
Like, these are all, I think and I say small things, but maybe they're not small things. I think they're really important things, but you have to put everything together. So don't take anything for granted. Preparation is the key, and have a good game plan so that these things, you're gonna have a punch list of all the things you have to remember so that when you go out on that interview, you're gonna nail it.
Yeah. It's really interesting because even though the question is around the biggest mistakes you see people make, it's almost like it's the tiniest mistakes that kinda trip people up. It's the small details that really can edge an interview in the person's favor or it can kind of collapse like a house of cards. So it's kind of interesting that it's more the tiny granular details that can kind of trip people up.
What would you say is your number one career development tip for the medical affairs industry? Number one tip. Well, I'll tell you, and this is certainly up there, but you you have to develop relationships throughout your career from the word go. From when you start your career every single day, you make a have to make a conscious effort to develop really strong relationships. And by developing strong relationships, you're building your network.
And by building your network, you're also investing in your future for promotion, for new opportunity, if you decide that you wanna leave the company and you want to try to consider other opportunities, you have the network. Not only that, it it's it's very important part, especially if you're a medical science liaison. You have to be good at developing relationships, not just externally, but with your internal stakeholders, your supervisors, people cross functionally. Everybody takes notice.
One of the things that's really important about being in business, in any business, in any company is everybody takes notice. And everybody you you develop your own personal brand whether you realize it or not. So what's your personal brand gonna be? Are you gonna be the guy that everybody likes? That everybody sees as a hard worker, that everybody says, oh, that that's the guy that I want in the meeting. That's the guy that I want giving the presentation.
That's the guy that I want, you know, to be involved in this project. That's that's paramount and key to your success. There's other things too that I think are really important. I think that you should all and this is a small tip, but it goes a long way. Keep your resume updated. And and remember to do so on a on a semi regular basis. Let's say it's once a quarter or once every 6 months. Because that's an investment. It's an investment in your career.
You don't wanna wait 3 years to update your resume or your CV and then have to go back and say, alright. Now what did I do over the course of the last 3 years? If you keep track of it over course of time, it it builds itself, and you're investing in your future without even realize you're doing it. Again, it's just like working smarter, not harder. The other thing too is and I know there's a long answer, but I think it's important.
I really think that attitude is paramount to your success in your career. What attitude are you bringing forward, and how are you approaching every day? People notice that. And I think that when it comes to, and I don't wanna get into a discussion on, you know, mindset and mind over matter and things like that. But I do believe that we need to wake up every day. We need to have our goals in mind.
We need to always have a positive outlook so that other people can see that there's just a positive nature in us, and we're treating other people properly because it just goes a long way. So I think attitude's another really important thing that has to be paramount in the way you go about your job because people are gonna take notice. Yeah. I I think I mean, that was such a great and comprehensive answer, Tom.
And I'm just adding to my list of keywords that you're mentioning, but maintenance, effort, positivity, and attitude, and goals. That seems to be kind of the recurring theme of the podcast. And I think all those things, if you can keep a focus on them, it really will help you attain anything you want in your career. And like you said, it's kind of industry it's not industry specific. It's that's just in life. That's across anything that you do.
Well and that's I I don't wanna always answer these types of questions as it relates to just medical affairs even though that's what we specialize in. But I I these these aren't specific to any career. It's specific to really anyone that is trying to establish himself, is looking for good career advice. The other thing too is an as we're sitting here talking, you know, we should always think about how can we give back. That's so important in business because people don't forget that.
If you do a favor for someone, for whether it's your manager, a coworker, if you're if you offer to be a mentor to someone, you're creating indebtedness that people don't forget. And it there's gonna come a time where you're gonna need a favor, or you're gonna need somebody to step up and help you. And those people are gonna be lining up because you've always paid it forward. So that's another thing that I I I think is an important part of anyone's career. I know everybody's busy. It's hard.
Like, we talk about this, but everybody's really super busy. But if you can volunteer your time a bit or if you can go out of your way to help somebody else, do a favor for somebody, put somebody else before you. I think it's just a really good way to not only establish and we talk about relationships, establish relationships, but it's also a great way to continue to build that personal brand where people can look into you. Like, that that's a great guy right there.
Definitely. And I think, like, positive action and connections just it begets more positive action. And how many times we get referrals from people, whether it's MSLs or medical directors or it's HR people looking to hire and, you know, it's like, hey, I knew Tom from 10 years ago and you're looking for an MSL, you should call Tom. And it's only because you took so much time out of your personal schedule, you know, to cultivate those relationships and plant the seeds.
But it's, it's in a genuine way. I mean, I listen to you on the phone and it's always genuine. What can I do for you? I'll talk to you after hours. I'll help you with your resume. I'll connect you to so and so at this company that might be able to help you get a job there. And, you know, I I think that's the the most interesting thing about you is that you're so successful in business, but it's because you're such you're such a genuine human being. And I think that it does.
It really it carries a lot of weight. So I appreciate that. I told you, listen. Don't make me cry. Didn't I tell you, don't make me cry. It's one of those. Come on. We did agree to that. I promised myself I wouldn't cry. No. But here's the thing, though. It's I love people. I do. Can't help it. I love people. I love talking to people. I love meeting people. I love interacting with people. And and some people don't. Some people are more to themselves, but I just I do.
I really I I love people, and I love to interact with people. I can't help it. So Well, that shines through in everything that you do, whether it's live over the phone or resume. So that is definitely very apparent in all that all that you do and bring to the table. So in the theme of giving the people what they want, let's close out with something fun. So what's a fun fact about yourself that many individuals would not know? Fun fact.
Alright. Well, to start, I have a twin brother, and we are fraternal. So we don't look alike. But there is another Caravella brother out there that, is just like me in so many ways. And, yeah, funny story. We don't look alike, but, you know, when we were growing up, anytime my parents would have somebody new over the house. Like, I'd come downstairs. They'd be like, oh, this is my son, Tommy, and, you know, go get go get your brother. So I'd run upstairs.
I changed my shirt, and I come back down. I'm like, hey. I'm Joe. You know? That's awesome. My parents would be like, you gotta stop doing that, but can't help it. So I'm a little bit of a joker. And what else? You know, it's funny. I someone asked me recently, like, do you have any hidden talents? And I don't.
I, you know, I I don't juggle or, you know, I don't, like, swallow fire or but I my hidden talent is, like, you know, when you go out to dinner with a whole bunch of people, and there's that one guy that orders the apps for the whole table? That's Yes. That's my job. I order the apps. I know exactly what to order. I know exactly how much to order, and everybody will be satisfied. You are the app guy. Well, I do. I love doing it. I love apps.
Is a that is a really, really good hidden town that you have. Yeah. That is well, listen. So I got been amazing. I mean, I feel like I I knew some of this. I didn't know most of it though. So it's it's really great to hear your story, Tom. And, you know, I think we all just appreciate, you know, your your investment in the industry and also every person that you meet. So thanks for the time today. It was it was great, and thanks for letting me steal your podcast. Thank you, Bridget.
You are awesome, and I wouldn't have had anybody other than you conduct this. And, I appreciate everyone. I appreciate you, b. I appreciate everyone that listens to this podcast, and I thank you for all your comments and suggestions because I do take all of them to heart. I listen to everything, and, I'm gonna keep try to keep it coming. So learn to try to keep doing this for the foreseeable future, and I wanna thank everybody for all your support.
I hope this was helpful, and we will see you next time. We will see you next time. Bye, guys. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again. And we look forward to seeing you soon.