Hey, guys. Welcome to podcast. My guest today is Stephanie Fish. She is senior regional director at BeiGene, and we talk about her career journey, which has led to career satisfaction and tremendous success success, and what factors brought her to her different career transitions. Amazing conversation. You're gonna love this. Stephanie's awesome. So don't forget to check us out on LinkedIn, and follow me on LinkedIn, and visit us on the 1st Tuesday of every month, MSL talk live, 1:30 PM EST.
It's a live discussion, panel discussion, which has been awesome. So please join us. Check out the announcements on LinkedIn, and I appreciate all of your support of this podcast. Welcome to MSL Talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Stephanie. Welcome to the podcast. Thanks for joining me. How are you doing? Thank you, Tom. Great to see you. Hope you're having a good summer. Yeah. Yeah. It's been a great week.
And, I know we've been trying to get this together and I have to I gotta give a shout out to Paul Ward. This is the 2nd podcast this week that came from Paul. He's just he's such a great friend of this show, and he's such a great networker, and he just brings people together. And so I said it in in my last episode with Bobby Fason, and I'm gonna say it again. Thank you, Polwood. You're the man. Appreciate you for making this happen.
So, Steph, why don't you introduce yourself before we get started? Sure. So my name is Stephanie Fitch, and I have been in the pharmaceutical industry for quite some time. I'm looking forward to discussing my career with you today. I'm currently a senior regional director at BayG. Awesome. And I love these. So we're gonna do, like guys, you've seen us do, like, these career transition stories.
This is gonna be a little different because I really am excited to share with you Stephanie's story about her perspective on the career lattice and what it means to make different moves within your career and why and what factors really should be considered, which I think a lot of people don't totally realize what is priority versus what maybe should be a priority. And it it reminds me real quick not to jump around, but before we get into your story, I have a huge announcement coming up.
So guys, stay tuned. Big, big announcement that has a lot to do with career and career transition. I'm gonna leave it at that. It's gonna be a cliffhanger, so pay attention to my LinkedIn feed because we have a huge announcement coming up soon. So, Steph, let's get into it. Let's go back to the beginning. So, like, how'd you get into industry? Like, where did it all start? You know, it's really interesting.
I love my alma mater, but they really didn't talk to us about the pharmaceutical industry. So it really came down to knowing somebody. So I had done my Pharm d residency at Thomas Jefferson University Hospital, and then I was hired to work at Jefferson. And then as part of being there, I mentored incoming residents and I became close friends with someone. Little shout out, her name is Elizabeth Ren, and she called me one day to tell me about an MSL opening at Amgen.
And the reason she thought of me was very personal. Amgen was getting ready to launch remiplastem or nplate for ITP, and my brother at the age of 27 was diagnosed with severe ITP. And she knew that he had failed multiple lines of therapy, so although I was very happy in my job, I did interview at Amgen to become an MSL, and it was one of the best decisions I ever made. Wow. I love that. And that's such a that just goes to show you sometimes it's not what you know till you know. It's timing.
And did you feel it? Were you just like, I feel like I'm led to be like, to do this? I did. You know, ITP is somewhat rare, and I was very involved in my brother's care. And when I interviewed at Amgen and made it clear that I would want to be really tied into that program, they said, you know, absolutely. They described that their MSLs at the time were very involved in even patient advocacy. So I was able to work with the ITP Society as an oncology MSL.
It was really rewarding, Tom. That is amazing. I love that. So we're starting off really with, like, a feel good, and we're gonna keep it going. And as we look at what let's let's take you at that moment. Did you know so you're an MSL, like and, like, did you know that you wanted to do other things? How did your career develop from that moment, and what was your vision?
So, you know, I started as as an oncology MSL there, and I did that role for a good 4 to 5 years and really had a great mentor at the time who encouraged me to apply for a team lead position. I don't think I got it the 1st time I applied. I I think I did my 2nd go round at Amgen.
So then I was a team lead there for for a couple years and really enjoyed, you know, grooming others that were new to industry that had done the transition like I did from, you know, clinical practice or, at the time, straight out of residency, they could become an MSL. I know that's a little harder today. But I enjoyed my leadership track. And then my boss at the time at Amgen recruited me to join him at a different company. So that's how I made my first company move.
That was by following a manager. Yeah. And that's interesting. And I wanna stop there for a second because what you just said, both things, these transitions that happened in your career, people came to you. People were seeking you out for the most part. So how important is it to just be excellent every day in what you do and stand out so that people take notice? I mean, you must have had some kind of vision, but at the same time, you you got people. You you made the fish jump in the boat.
You weren't, like, putting the net out in the water, it seems. I I like your fishing analogy since my last name is fish. So you're saying I'll I'll credit my parents who, you know, are both business business professionals and taught me to really have a strong work ethic, professional ethic. I I'm not exactly an extrovert, but I don't feel like I have issues making relationships with people and just really giving every day my best.
So, yes, I feel blessed that I've had strong connections, and I do when I'm mentoring folks that are new to industry. This is a small world, and, you know, you need to right your wrongs. And am I a better leader today than I was 20 something years ago? Yes. I've worked very hard and I've listened to a lot of feedback. I'm actually not real proud of my 1st year or 2 as a team lead. I was I was tougher than I should have been, and it's taken years of experience to realize that.
So you weren't proud because you feel like you were you were just a little bit too tough as a manager? Yeah. If I could do it over again, I definitely would have been more understanding that not everybody wants to be a team lead, a study lead, this, that, and everything other, congress lead, everything that you can do, and and it's okay to do the MSL job and not take on tons of extra responsibilities. I think I was too tough. I got you. Oh, no. I got you. That makes sense.
And I think that there's a good lesson there in that our goals and our vision may not align with what everybody else wants. Everybody else's expectation might be for themselves might be different. So then you what happens next in your career? Talk to us about the next transition. Yeah. That that was a tough one because, although I love this manager that brought me to my next company, he quickly left because he joined a different company.
So then I was kind of at this new company not knowing a lot of people. So that was a tough transition, and I was working in a somewhat new space for me. I was working in, kind of the health systems and oncology clinic clinical pathway space. It was a challenge for me, which I enjoy. I was there just a few years before I was then recruited to Merck where I then spent a large chapter of my professional career, And that again was luck at the draw. I was speaking at DIA.
Thank you, Lynn Bass. She invited me to be on her panel. And someone from Merck Medical Affairs was in the audience and then recruited me to Merck. Yep. So let's talk about because one of the things I really wanted to talk to you about in this episode and let's get into the meat of it is really the motivation. Like, what were the motivations and what were some of the factors that led into some of these moves? I know a lot of it was connections and you were just being led.
But a lot of people who are going throughout the course of their career, I think, need to understand that we all have a certain set of core values and things that are important to us, and that shouldn't take a back seat if it doesn't have to. It should be in line with the company's core values and what it is that you want for yourself, your career trajectory. It should all match, but that's not always easy.
So let's talk about how that played a factor for you and what the motivations were as you made these moves. Sure. And I think we'll get to it, but motivations can ebb and flow and flex as, you know, where you are in your personal life, your professional life. And so at the time, you know, 10, 15 years ago, my motivation was to climb the ladder.
My motivation was to get to more of an in house position, executive position so that I could make big changes and make the MSL job more friendly, easier, rewarding, etcetera. And so I was kind of, you know, viewing my career as I needed to go straight up. So I will say though, I always felt like I spent the appropriate amount of time in each role, so MSL 4 to 5 years, team lead 4 to 5 years, executive director, quite a few years, before, you know, then getting to an AVP level.
And we'll talk about why I've chosen to return back to a more field based level in my current role. So when you so the the the motivation to climb the ladder, that was just something okay. This is what I feel like I need to do. I'm just gonna go for it, and I'm just gonna go from you know, obviously, you spent enough time in in each role as you said, but you wanted to advance. It was about advancement. That was the motivation for you. Advanced. I'm making a difference.
I wanted to feel like I've made a difference. Okay. And that's important because what are the motivations? It could be it could be money, could be title, it could be work life balance, it could be in house versus field or field versus in house. It might be, well, my kids are in a certain age, so I can't take x role because x role has 80% travel, and it's just not feasible for me.
So the there are these factors that exist that at each step of the at each step of that career transition, did you sit down with yourself and say, okay. Am I doing this for the right reason, or is it just for advancement? No. I mean, I definitely did sit down with myself. I sat down with my financial planner, to, you know, to to make decisions.
And, you know, as we'll get to, my goals definitely have changed over time and, but it is important to have your list of what's important to you when you are looking to make a career move, and I like to give people the advice of, you know, rather than look at a title or rather than look at a level, really focus on what gives you joy. What makes you happy? It's, like, as simple as that.
And that kinda led to me making some more recent decisions because people that have known me for 15 plus years who have supported my career growth have heard me say I would be happy to retire as an MSL because I've that was my favorite job. Yep. When I think about why it was my favorite job, it was the cutting edge science being, you know, peer to peer with the best thought leaders in the world. My career happened to be very specialized in oncology for the majority of the time.
And as you grow to more in house and more senior executive positions, just naturally you're further away from the field. So recently, I looked at my life and, you know, if I'm gonna work another 10 years, where is it that I wanna spend that time? And my heartstrings really pulled on me and said, it's back with the field. It's back with MSLs and being someone that can help groom people in their career to where they would like to be, but also be with them side by side back in the science.
So let's talk about that. So you you have you were on this crazy, tremendous, successful, career trajectory. Your career progression is amazing. I mean, just looking at your background, it's textbook, and you made the right advancements in the right amounts of time, and you got to all these pinnacles in your career. And then you made a decision to not advance forward, not go up any further, but take a bit of a sidestep.
So you're saying that that was something that you had to really sit down and think about, talk to yourself about, and determine what's gonna make me happy. Am I gonna be happy in making an advancement to VP, senior VP, CMO, leader of the universe, whatever that next step might be, or do I need to really decide maybe taking that side step is going to lead to my intrinsic happiness? It's not about it's no longer about the advancement. Is that what happened?
That is exactly what happened, and I can't tell you the day, but it was about a time frame where I I just had to have a real honest look with myself and say, are you really happy? Yes. You've worked hard to get here really hard. You've sacrificed a lot. Thankful for my family, wonderful fiance who's been in my life 8 years who have helped me.
But it it definitely came at a cost to be at that level for my own work life balance, my own health, And when I really looked at what drove my happiness, it was definitely a desire to have more work life balance. I knew it had to be back in oncology because I did take a a short hiatus out of oncology in order to get global experience, which I'm grateful for. Mhmm. If anyone has that opportunity, I highly recommend it. I learned so much about health care and not in, you know, outside of the US.
But it was really that passion to return to being close to the MSLs that made me seek out this position. And hopefully, we'll also talk about why I particularly sought out this exact position. Well, we're gonna get to that. But when you're going through this this transition, it's gotta be difficult. Were you were you struggling with guilt or uncertainty or doubt? Like, do should I do this? Am I crazy? Am I am I ruining my career? What was going through your head?
You could scrape me off the floor, and I finally just realized I was no longer, good to myself. And and my dear mentor, Ken Massey, may you rest in peace Uh-huh. Once said to me, a dead Stephanie is no good to this organization. And Yeah. You and I am I am part of myself. I set a very high standard, and so I have to really watch myself for my work life balance because I will, if left to be, will put myself all in.
And at a more executive in house position, there within especially the global role where you're really expected to have let's, you know, let's be honest, you're talking to China, you're talking to Australia. Those aren't between the hours of 8 and 5 US time. Mhmm. And, it just started to impact my overall well-being. I felt like I lost a bit of my myself and realized that if I was really happy at it, I probably wouldn't have felt so exhausted.
Yeah. So I I realized I didn't have the joy I needed for that role anymore, and it was time to let somebody else do it. And that's important. It was a big role. It was it was time to let someone else with more stamina, do it. Well, it's gotta be hard. I mean, and and hearing your story and you being so driven and wanting to advance and getting to that climbing that ladder and getting to that next step. And that's really, really hard. And you did it.
And then but you get to that point and you're at that, like, the top of the ladder, and then you're like, okay. Now where do I go? Do I continue to go up to the next rung, or do I start to decide? Alright. That that's not gonna make me happy. It's just gonna make me it's gonna put me in a different place. So you made a very difficult decision. When you did that, what other factors were there? I know that I know we know the same people Yeah. And I know how important people are to you.
So was the people factor a big determination big determining piece of the equation for you? Well, I'll tell you, it was very hard to leave my last role because I had a we had a tight team, And I love them like a family, and thankfully, I stay in touch with them as I always do. I I did have to think of them, but then, you know, I thought about the analogy of you you have to put your own oxygen mask on first.
And I just I I sat down with each of them to announce I was leaving, and they all understood it and wished me nothing but the best. There was a little piece of me that thought, man, when I post this on LinkedIn, some people are gonna really wonder what, you know, what is going on. But for the most part, I've had a chance to really explain to people this was a really this was not an easy decision. Let's face it.
It it did impact me financially, but at this point, happiness means the world to me, and and I am just invigorated in this role again. And friends that haven't seen me in a long time have noticed the observable difference in my my happiness. Well, and that's such a key I mean, that message that and by the way, guys, I'm gonna cut to the chase.
That's the entire purpose of this podcast is finding peace and finding what makes you happy and finding the fact the whole concept about what factors should you consider when making a career move. There are your factors. You have to figure out what those are. I can't tell you.
And the one thing I will say though being in my chair on the recruiting side don't freak yourself out thinking that if you make a career transition, that may not be the most conventional decision or path that you're never gonna be able to course correct because that's not true. It's your body of work. It's true. But let's be honest, though.
When I tried interviewing for roles a few months ago, in case I didn't get this one, I did have some people not willing to look at my CV because they were saying I was overqualified or questioning why I wanted to return to the field. So that was a little bit of a challenge that I had to be very strategic in my cover letter to explain, no. I'm serious. I really want this.
It's gonna, absolutely, it's going to be a challenge when you're going from an executive director, assistant vice president, vice president to a level that's not consistent with same or an advancement because people aren't gonna understand it. Well, I don't understand. Why would you take a lesser position? 1000%. So that piece of it, that's one piece of the equation is if you decide to take a bit of a side step or step back, you're it you're gonna get resistance. Here's my point.
You it's not gonna end your career. It's not gonna be it's not gonna be such a black eye that you can't then decide to do other things at other parts of your career. I mean, you're still you're still very young. There's other there's so much runway ahead of you if you decide to do something else or but let's talk about where we started, which was with relationships got you to where it really got you a seat at the table in the beginning, and it's gotten you throughout your career.
So how important is it to maintain those relationship, build relationships along the way because the these transitions become so much easier because you have so many allies. Yeah. I mean, it's critical.
I mean, I know it goes without saying you you have to have the hard work to go along with the relationships, but I do believe it's important to treat each person that you meet delicately, professionally, stay in touch, because in doing that, it can help you in the long run if you apply for a position where you might go to a black hole at HR because you look either underqualified, overqualified, or just an unknown entity. Yeah. And let's talk about that. Let's talk about culture for a second.
Like, when you go to an organization, have you been in you've been in places long enough where, obviously, the culture must have been really good. Otherwise, you wouldn't have been there that long. But do you kinda know how do you evaluate culture and how it how important is that in the decision making process as a factor? Well, I think it's extremely important. I've I've been in healthy. I've been in unhealthy.
I will say someone early in my career once told me when you're interviewing for a role, keep in mind, you're interviewing them as much as they're interviewing you. So you have to believe and value in your candidacy and take it very seriously. So if you know people at the company, that's a piece of cake. Right? You ask your friends what's the culture.
On the flip, if it's, you know, an unknown company to you, I would first say use your LinkedIn network, see if you know anyone that knows anyone where you can maybe find out or ask to speak with someone on the team that you're going to be on. So if you're interviewing for an MSL job, ask if you can speak with someone on that team if they don't offer it. I would also ask some questions about, can you describe the current environment? Can you describe the work life balance?
Can you describe how people are rewarded? I would ask questions about that because I do tell everybody it is best when you take a role to really try to stay in it a year or 2. You don't wanna look like you're job hopping, especially in these MSL roles where we spend 8 to 12 weeks training people. We we invest a lot of time. It's really not fair to jump around so you really need to know who it is you're working for before you make that move. And I think that's a missing piece.
I think a lot of people don't do what you just said. I think people assess culture. I think they want to know who am I working with, who am I working for, What's the environment like? But are they really going out of their way and asking those questions? Are they seeking out other people within the organization to say, hey. You know, other than people that might be on the interview panel, just seek out and say, hey. What you know, how how are things going there?
What can you tell me about the organization? How do you see things for the future? I think people do miss that. That's an extra step for sure. Mhmm. What other what other factors like, what other pieces of this puzzle do you feel people often miss? What other things do people need to take into consideration when they're making their career moves and transitions? I definitely think people need to if they are drawn to a therapeutic area, listen to your heart.
I tried to to step away from oncology for a little bit of time, not realizing how much I would miss it. And, man, it just wasn't the same for me. Yeah. There is something about unplugged. For me, personally, everyone has to find their joy. I respect infectious disease MSLs, cardiovascular MSLs. It's really hard work. So I think, you know, listen to what what disease state area you wanna be in. Think about the size of your territory. Do you like to travel a lot?
You know, some of the smaller companies require you to travel a little bit more, so maybe that's not for you. And what the career pathway is. I think some companies are more supportive of non MDs in leadership roles and some are not. And it's a question to consider asking if that's important to you. Yeah. I think I think I think people don't take enough time to really sit down with themselves and ask all those questions that you just asked. I think that this should be a rewind moment.
I think people should watch this again and really take notes because it's important to get this right. I think people make mistakes. Do you see when you mentor people, do you feel like there's enough awareness when it comes to these these factors and when people make big decisions? No. And I and I don't think it's anybody's fault. I think these are basic skills we're not taught Mhmm. Certainly in college.
I was fortunate to have very successful parents who taught me very well and great mentors throughout my time in pharma who have supported me in my development and taught me that it is important to always keep an open door if if a recruiter calls you. Just know what's out there and know know your value, know what you need to work on. I definitely think if I'm interviewing for a role and they ask me what I need to work on, I need to have that answer ready.
I need to always know what it is I'm doing to improve myself, for the company and for for my own skills. So I think people in general don't realize how much time it takes to really prepare for an interview and have their story right as to why they're looking. And and just remember it's a small role to keep it very professional when speaking about past pieces of employment. I did hear you say when recruiters call, you have to take the call. I heard you say it.
I didn't tell you to say it, but you did say it. So, yes, you have to be nice to recruiters like me. Anyway, alright. So last question. I'm gonna put you on the spot here. Big question. So what's next? What's next for you? I'm not thinking about the next step. I'm enjoying the now. I love it. And I and I told my my manager and my manager's manager that when I accepted this position that I'm not thinking about what's next. I'm enjoying the now. Would I ever go to the next level again?
If I have the opportunity and feel rested enough, yes, I would. I don't think enough people realize the stamina it takes to be in some of those positions and the hours that you work, because of how many committees and cross collaborations you have to have. And if it's global, just the amount of travel and the toll that takes on yourself. And so right now, I'm not thinking about what's next because I am just I've never been happier, in in a role than the one I'm in right now, truly.
And and I think that's the key. I think that that message right there is if you're if you're truly happy in your role, don't worry about what anybody else is doing, what anybody else is thinking. You run your own race and be happy in what you have because that's the ultimate goal, right, is to have a job and a career that when you wake up in the morning, you don't dread it. You're not like, oh, man. I can't believe I have to do this again.
Yeah. I intentionally sought out this position because I knew the hiring manager and the manager's manager. And so, again, I'm privileged. I've had a long career in pharma, and I've known people and I've stayed in touch and and those connections really are helpful if you've proven yourself with the hard work. Well, listen, my friend. Congratulations on a tremendous career that's still thriving. Congratulations on finding peace and finding happiness and understanding it and being there.
And thank you for sharing your story because it's a it's a actually, it's a really unique story of someone that just had the awareness to say, yeah. Great career. Go, go, go. Wait. I don't want what's next. I don't want what most people may think is next. I want this, and that's where I'm going. Yeah. Awesome. Great story. Steph, good luck to you. Enjoy the rest of the summer, and come back again and see us and hang out with us here on the podcast. Thank you. Look forward to your announcement.
Awesome. Yeah. Big announcement, guys. Stay tuned, And thank you guys for supporting the podcast. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing, and we'll see you next time. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future, and feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.