Okay, guys. Welcome to the podcast. Exciting, exciting topic and guests today. I have a repeat guest. One of your favorites, Josh Yoder, is back with us. Josh, welcome. Thank you. Glad to be here. Thanks for the invite. Always been fun. And now we have Josh's buddy, and we're gonna get into that story. Kirsten Borby. I get that right? Did I say that right? I'm terrible with names, but I got that right. And I wanted to start this off by do you guys wanna do, like, a disclaimer kinda thing?
Either of you? You want me to do it? Either way is good. I think it's pretty standard. Right? These are our opinions, not the opinions of any past or present employ employers. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And, you know, would just, you know, gotta be respectful to, you know, to the yeah. Exactly. So but so, guys, we're gonna talk today about and so, basically, I had met Kirsten through Josh. We met at MAPS, had a conversation. She tells me about how these guys met. And I was like, wait a second.
That is like an amazing, like, tale of, like, networking and friendship and bravery. So that's why, like, if you look at this if you think, like, the title's kinda click baity, it's it is for on purpose because it it's all those things. So I, Kirsten, I'm going to start with with you. And if you want to do a quick introduction first, and then we can kind of get into the story. Is that cool? Sure. Well, I'm Kirsten Borby, and it's great to be here.
Thanks for inviting me onto podcast, Tom, and great to be here with Josh too. I'm an internal medicine physician by training and experience, and I've spent the last four years in industry, in a variety of different roles. And today's topic is just something I'm really passionate about, which is people. The science is something that I've always loved, but people are really at the center of everything I've done in my life. So thanks for letting me talk about that.
And we're so excited, and I can't wait for you to share the story. So take us back and and let's talk about and you if you could tell us the story of how and why you originally reached out to Josh and, like, what you were expecting from that communication. Yeah. So that's a that's a great question, and I'll wind it all the way back to, I've been listening to the podcast for probably five years. I love podcasts. I listen to them when I run.
And in this particular case, I had been listening to this episode, and I loved the topic. I loved the authenticity of the conversation. And I've kinda developed a habit of when I see something that intrigues me about either the people or what they're talking about, I go look them up, and I see if I can find them. And and I really, just go for a reach out. And so, when I saw that Josh actually had in his LinkedIn that he lives in the Denver Metropolitan Area, I thought, oh, we could be neighbors.
So I really just made an authentic reach out just really to say, hi, and I'm here. We're in the same industry and just saying hello, really, and sharing how much I enjoyed what he had said on the podcast. So Josh and I do a podcast. You you hear it. You're inspired. You reach out to him. And then, Josh, you see this message come through. And what did you think? Like like, what stood out? What made you respond? What was your side of it? Sure. I love networking with people anyway.
I think we'll get into the differences, the the way people approach it and all that, I think. But to me, it's fun. Right? I I'm with Kirsten. Like, I got into all this stuff to help people. Right? I I I think most people get into science and medicine for that reason. It is interesting, but it's a way to help people. I think networking is the same way. Right? You you meet a bunch of people. Nobody knows everything about everything.
I've worked some with some incredibly smart people that feel like they know everything. They still know everything. There's always, you know, that that value in having different people, different perspectives, the the diversity of thought and background into that. I view networking as a way to just make those connections. Right? I don't have to know anything.
If I know you know something and I know Kirsten knows something, I can put you two together and get out of the way and let you guys do awesome work and that that help people. Right? So Mhmm. Almost any outreach I get, I'm going to be open to it. And I've told Kirsten this. I give everybody a chance. Just the people that are duds, don't keep interacting with. Right? So I I think in general, like, I get a message like that. I'm like, hey. You're in the area.
Let's let's explore this, and let's see, you know, where it goes. I think some of my best friends I've met in my life, in my personal life, have come through LinkedIn, have just reached out and and, you know, that same sort of thing. This is the connection we have. Let's talk about it, and then you just throw things out there, find where the commonalities are, and kinda move forward from there, I think. I love your story about maps. I I was gonna go to maps for the first time this year.
I've still not been to that. Started a new company that you introduced me to, like, last year. Started there in January. Turned out we had an internal meeting at the same time. On my entire flight going to that meeting, I was texting with multiple people saying, like, oh, you're gonna be at Match. You're gonna be at Match. You guys need to meet each other. And to me, that that's just I I'd rather be there. I love hanging out with friends.
A lot of people there that I like that I don't see all the time. But if I can put two other people together that can interact with one another and get positive outcomes from it, I'm just as happy from that. Yeah. Awesome. Yeah. I love it. I love the way this whole thing kinda originated. It reminds me too. So Kirsten said she heard me on the podcast. She didn't just hear me. She heard me and Kendra. And this is the third time I've been on your podcast.
Every time it's been with another person, and I I love that too. It's not about coming on and talking about something what I know. Mhmm. Or I workshop at a conference, whatever, I always tell people, like, everybody in this room collectively knows way more than I do. Let's get all our thoughts together. So it was on with Kendra. Was on with Linda. Now I'm with Kirsten. Like, I love that aspect of it too. Yeah. I didn't think of that. That's right. It was always with other people.
And great episodes. Like, just awesome. I love both of smart enough to do this on my own, Tom. Come on, man. Don't you say that. Not true. That's not true. But you you actually, the episodes were both really, really good. And, guys, for those of you listening, go back because one of them the the first one was about how to architect a presentation for an MSL interview. So if you have an interview coming up, Josh and Kendra do an amazing job in that episode.
And then the other one is with Linda Trailer, and it's a book review for our one of our favorite books, which is Never Split The Difference by Chris Voss, which is an amazing book. I would listen to that too, and I read the book. So side note. Okay. So Kirsten, what motivated you to to, like, reach out and take that risk even though you didn't really know, like, how Josh might receive it? Yeah. No. It's a great question.
And I will say so Josh and I, we have a lot of similarities in our personality, but I will also say we have some differences, and we've laughed about these differences. I am by nature an overthinker partly, I think, because being an internal medicine physician, it's part of the job. If you're not overthinking, you're you're you're probably not doing right by your patients. So I do feel like when I when I think about risk, I always think about upside and downside.
And in the case of reaching out to somebody, I think of the downside as zero and the upside as unlimited. So from my perspective, I didn't really see any risk in it, and I didn't really have any expectation. And I would say when I do reach out to people or when I have reached out to people, I don't have an expectation of anything on the other end of it. And perhaps that attitude helps me deal with the fact that it could be anything.
It maybe it maybe someone doesn't respond, but I will say more times than not, people are are pretty responsive. And I actually think people are happy when others are curious about their lives and what they're doing, and they're happy to share their stories. And, I think there's just so much to gain from that when you don't attach any expectation to it on the back end. Yeah. I like what you said there. When you don't attach any expectation on the back end.
Because I think a lot of times when I see people networking, they don't take the best approach because they make it all about themselves. And it's just like, hey, I came across your profile and I need you to help me with this. And guys, that's just that's that's not the approach. And I know that that's not the approach that you took when you reached out to Josh.
But getting back to this question about hesitancy and like risk and reaching out, the other thing I hear from a lot of people, especially people in our coaching program, we talk about this a lot. And there's this kind of fear and nervous. People get very nervous when networking and reaching out. So Josh, I wanna hear from you and your perspective on this.
Like what advice would you give to, let's say, job seekers or just career professionals who are nervous about networking and and taking that step? Yeah. I think it's it's probably common in anything you're doing, whether it's networking, whether it's starting a business, learning things. It's fear of failure. Right? Don't be afraid of that.
You're I mean, Michael Jordan has a famous quote, right, about, you know, the number of or I don't know if it's a direct quote, but he knows the number of game winning shots that he missed too. Right? And he's like, you don't you don't make those game winning shots without without taking them. Right? Yeah. But you're gonna miss some of them. You're not always gonna be successful. Not nothing's gonna be a % successful. Tell my kids that all the time.
You learn something new, you're gonna you go fail. You go keep doing it. You go keep getting better at it. Right? You know, you get back on the horse kind of thing. I think you just have to keep working at things. And quite honestly, especially in field medical, I think this is exactly perfect training essentially for reaching out to KOLs. Talk to any what's your what's your hit rate on sending a blind email to a KOL that you don't know. Right? Right. Oh, percentage.
The same thing's gonna happen here. Not everybody's gonna respond. Some people, whether they don't have interest, some people don't have time. I've had people reach out to me, and I don't get back to them immediately. If they follow-up, maybe I will, or maybe I'll be going through messages a couple weeks later when I have time, and I'll get back to them. It's not a personal thing. Right? I think it's it's just the nature of what it is.
And I a little bit in field medical, I think people are open to connecting a little bit more than they are in some fields, and I think you do may get a little bit higher hit rate. But still, it's not gonna be everybody you reach out to is just gonna be like, oh, this is great. Let's do it. It's not personal. It's no it's no reflection on you. I think just go out there and do it and see where it goes.
I mean, I I'm I'm a big fan of just trying it, and you don't have to I I I think you wanna be a little intentional. Right? I don't blast every single person on LinkedIn and say, hey. Let's connect. Right? It it has to be I think, like Kirsten said, you noticed, oh, this person had something interesting. We have something common in our background. What's your reason for reaching out? And tell the people that. Right? We went to the same university. I saw you played this sport.
I I don't care what the connection is. It can be at any year of your life. I do this personally too. We'll be walking through a restaurant or something else. I'll someone I like their shirt or their shoes and, like or start some conversation. My kids are like, do you know them? Like, I do now. Right? It's there's just put ideas out there, right, and and be open to it.
I think you have to be a little open to the the opportunity and the fortuitousness that's out there too and and not be afraid of that. I'm not offended if someone doesn't wanna have a conversation. I don't know what's going on in their life. Maybe they have a bad day. They have a relative that's sick. Their mind's somewhere else. It who knows what it is. But I think if you don't try, you know, it's Wayne Gretzky does have a a direct quote. You know, a % of the shots you don't take, don't go in.
Right. So if you don't put it out there into the world, you're you know the answer already. It's no. Well and, you know and I love I love that point. I and I think it's it's really good advice because I think that maybe expectations are a little off with with a lot of people where they get frustrated or they take it personally if they're not getting a lot of responses. It should be the opposite.
You should and I'm not saying I don't like saying, hey, lower your expectations because I don't wanna demotivate people. But don't be offended if you're not getting a response from everyone. And like Josh said, I don't know, they could just be busy or there could be something going on in their life. You just may have gotten them a lot a lot of this is timing. So just keep that in mind and and do the reps.
So if you're a job seeker and you are networking with folks and sending out LinkedIn connection request, for example, do the reps. Meaning, you know, be consistent. Try to do five to 10 a day, and then at the end of the week, you are gonna have a bunch of new connections. So that's all part of the whole networking game. But so, Kirsten, let's go back to this first conversation that you had with Josh. How did you prepare for that?
And was there anything that you did intentionally to make a good impression? I actually went I knew you were gonna ask me this question, so I actually went back to the original LinkedIn message. Oh, no way. Because I had to think, because honestly, in my mind, I I really like I said, I'm such an overthinker in some aspects of my life, but as far as connecting with people, I don't overthink that.
I actually think that there's such value, which I think gets missed by the term networking because that puts some type of value on what type of interaction you're trying to have when it's really just meeting people just for the sake of the wonderful people that they are and that you meet. So I I think when I made this reach out, I didn't think too much about it. I just I and I admittedly, with both of you since I mean, Tom, I've been listening to the podcast for five years.
When I met you at MAPS, I felt like I already knew you for five years. Now I I realized that was one-sided. And in the case of reaching out to Josh, I already felt like I knew him. I mean, you you get a lot of you get a a nice read into people when you hear them speak and you hear them interact with somebody. And so I actually I didn't really prepare for it. It was just a short message, And I mentioned that the proximity with where we live, and that was really all there was to it.
I I don't think that I necessarily thought about it more than that. Well, I but that's a great approach, though, because you do have that in common. But where you're where you reside, like, you have that in common, and that really is enough. You know, I mean, you know, Josh, as as he already said, is such an is such a great guy, and he's so easygoing that I asked the question, but it didn't matter with Josh. It's gonna matter with someone else, though.
So what I wanna point out and and give you kudos for is that you found the connection. And I encourage others that when you're reaching out to people, you're very tactful and researched, and find some kind of connection or something that you could mention. Even if it's a compliment or maybe they just released they got promoted or they released a paper, they celebrated a birthday, whatever. There's so many different things that you could focus on.
But I I definitely love the way you didn't you're normally an overthinker. You didn't overthink this. You just went for it. But I will say too, when I met you, I you said it's one-sided because you thought you know, you've been listening to the podcast. You felt like you knew me. I felt like I knew you. You just have that personality where and I said that to Josh. I'm like, oh my god. You know, I met Kirsten. She's awesome. I feel like I've known her for my whole life.
So it's crazy how things come full circle. And I think you hit the nail on the head there. And Josh and I I mean, while we can speak on this topic, it's maybe a little unfair because we have a personality that lends itself very naturally to human connections, and I think you do, Tom, as well. So we are, kinda all cut from the same cloth in that way. And so these are things that for me are are easy. They're fun. I enjoy it, and I've been this way my whole life.
And I don't see myself changing, and I don't think Josh will be changing anytime soon either. So so it is I do feel like, you know, I I think it's important to speak to people who maybe don't have that, you know, that side to themselves naturally. I think it can be cultivated. But, again, I just think there doesn't need to be so much fear in these types of things. And I do find that people are very receptive to to being reached out to in an authentic way.
I don't think it I don't think it needs to be a frightening experience. Yeah. No. I've listen. I totally agree, and I think that that's a great message because I think a lot of people do overthink this. And they get in their own head, and then they're paralyzed, and then they never send the message, and they never do the reach out. And then just like Josh said, you you know, if you don't take any shots, you're not gonna you're not gonna score.
So getting back to your relationship and friendship, like, at what point was there a shift from this, like, professional conversation to, like, a true friendship? Like, was there, like, a specific moment that happened? As I say this, it almost reminds me of, like, that scene in Step Brothers where, like, did we just become best friends? It might have been like that. I don't know, Josh. I'll let you answer that one. No. I think it was pretty quick. And sorry. My my ADHD is all over the place.
You guys keep saying these things, and I have, like, a hundred different examples for each each part of it. And but I think for this specifically, I mean, I I think it was pretty quick. Right? I think when people match energy like that, it it just naturally flows, at least for me. I think you do make a good point, Kirsten. It doesn't naturally flow for everyone, and there are people that get into it, you know, kind of a little more hesitantly and step into it.
And and I think, again, I know we'll talk more about this too, but, like, one of the things is people like, oh, yes. You know, networking's for extroverts. Right? I know I know plenty of introverts and and Kirsten too with the overthinking thing. My wife's the same way, very much an overthinker. I've been my mom is too. I've been planning for this my whole life. I I talk to people all the time and kind of talk them off the ledge when I need to.
But I think, you know, sometimes people people will say, meet my wife, and they're like, she's introverted, really? Like, we have a great conversation. And I feel like there are so many introverts that are such good connectors with people. They just don't go do it and don't go out and kind of walk into a room and meet everybody like we might. Right? But once they connect with someone and and kind of get to know them, trust them a little bit, they're they're great conversationalists. Right?
Some of the best MSLs I know are are huge introverts. I another friend that I have worked with, she worked on my team, multiple different companies. She'll go to one of these medical affairs conferences. She's like, I've had enough of this. I I I'm done peopling. Right? For me, that it gives me energy. Right? People are always like, oh, you're so high energy. I'm like, yeah. One because you're with me. I'm around people. That's that's where I get my energy. I love it.
I'll whether it it's gonna get to work, it's gonna get to personal stuff, whatever, but, like, I love interacting with people. I tell people all the time one of my favorite parts of traveling is getting an Uber or Lyft because I don't care if it's a five minute ride or an hour ride. I'm probably gonna know that person's life story by the time we get out of the car because I'm just curious. And I think that's another thing. It it's it's good in medical affairs. It's good in personal interactions.
Just be genuinely curious and and ask questions that interest you. You'll see what lights other people up, right, and and keep talking about that. I find almost everything interesting, so it's a little bit easier to do that. Right? But I don't think you have to just be extroverted to to make this work. Right? You can, again, have those intentional reach outs, have a reason to reach out, put it in a message. It doesn't have to be five paragraphs. I I have another good friend in Boulder right now.
Same thing. We met on LinkedIn last year. He reached out. He said, you know, I'm and he's in the investing world. Right? Not and he had biotech band. He was trying to learn more about meta affairs. Literally, like, I went back and looked up that message too because, like, Kirsten sent me the the message that she initially wrote. I'm like, I remember we were at I he came to the MSL conference with me last year, introduced him to people, and the guy knows so much stuff in this world.
I'm like, you think you're not, like, digging into this the same way people do scientifically and medically, but he knows more about the pharma world than anyone I've ever met. Just history of drugs, how all these transactions happen and stuff. And I'm like, you're opening my eyes to a different a different world. Right? So I and someone asked us at that conference, like, how did you reach out? What did you what was your message?
And he pulled it up, and, literally, it was like, two, three sentences. You know, this is what I do. This is what I'm interested in learning. Let's you know, are you open to talking sometime? We met up, same sort of thing. I was at his wedding over the holidays last year. I, you know, flew to South Carolina from visiting family in PA kind of thing. So I think it's that that thing where you you reach out with, you know, what about you interested me? What's our connection?
You know, where where does it go from here? If you hear back, great. If you don't, it's fine too. And and just follow that interest. Right? I think it's about it's about the those sort of things of you get we have this piece of interest, like Kirsten said. We don't align everywhere, but sometimes those opposite parts can kinda complement each other as well. Right? So I think it's that sort of thing, but I don't know. For me, our our conversation was so natural.
Again, we kind of have that personality that I think the the friendship started at the same time the conversation started. Yeah. That completely. Sorry if I I'm in different directions there. You guys just make me think of a lot of different things while you're talking. No. No. Listen.
Actually, there's a lot to unpack there, and and I like first of all, if I I wanna point out, you had said something that I think is really important, and and that is, you know, you said you don't need five paragraphs. Like, you absolutely do not. As a matter of fact, you wanna keep it brief because people aren't gonna read the five paragraphs. Yep. You know, get to the point, make it brief, make it heartfelt and genuine. That's the most important thing.
And, you know, Josh, you're a master at this, man. You're so easy to talk to, and you're such a natural, and you genuinely really enjoy people and love people. So it's so easy for you. And, like, now Kirsten, now that I know you, you're the same way. You're so easygoing and easy to talk to, and you have this curiosity about you. For the people that are listening that may not like, it may not come as naturally to you, one of the things that I wanna point out is is be yourself.
Don't try to be someone else because that's where people struggle, is where they try to put themselves in a box or be something that they're not. Take these best practices, curiosity, making the right connections, being researched, all of the approaches and things that we're talking about, but do it on your terms and in your own way. Because I think that the way people get into trouble is when they try to be something they're not. A %. I I love that you used the word authenticity.
I think it's it's everything, honestly, and I think it's how you make connections. Right? If you're pretending you're into something or you're trying to be someone you're not, I mean, I have this conversation with people a lot, but, like, I can't stand being self promotional. Right? Just be authentic. And I think that's how you find those real connections. Right? When you dig into stuff, it's gonna be clear if someone's really into it or not. So I think that authenticity goes a long way.
I'm so glad you brought up the word love. I I think that's it. You know, we wanna help people, and I think it comes back to that that that same meet internal meeting that I went to. The the head of my whole division of my company at the end of the conference literally brought up Bob Marley. Yeah. And he and and he said, all you need is love. And I think that's you know, companies will talk about being patient centric, employee centric, whatever it is.
I think that wanting to help people comes from love. Right? Just people can interpret that however they want. I know it it it might sound squishy, whatever, but I think that's what it comes back to. Right? If you authentically wanna help people, whether it's a patient, an employee, a a friend, That's what it's about and and how you help them. And I think the the networking aspect is huge for that. Right?
Because, again, I don't know everything, but I know somebody that maybe knows somebody or they did. There's a lot of people that know a lot of different things. And if you can figure out how to make those connections and help those people, that's how you express that love and help them with the the issue that they have. It might not be an issue to you. It might not be an issue to someone else. But if it is to that person, I don't care if you're the richest person in the world.
They still have problems. Right? And there's a way that you can help somebody Yeah. Whether it's through a connection or a simple action. And I think it it all comes back to that sort of thing. And one other point, I I'd write a few things down because I have too many things going off from what you guys are doing. But the other thing is don't don't approach it as what do I get out of this? It's it's always and it's the same thing in medical affairs. What's in it for them?
How do you help someone else? Because I think a lot of times too, one of my favorite things, and Kendra said this all the time, like, she would have KOL say to her, like, what company do you work for again? Because she's not going in with an agenda and trying to push something. It's how do I help them? And some of the best relationships I've seen her develop is she's fantastic with helping people and making those relationships. It's finding you you hear what their problem is.
And, maybe I can't solve, but I can connect you to someone who can, or I'll go dig up information and give that to you. Might have nothing to do with what my company's doing, but it solves your problem. Now we have that relationship almost all the time, and and she doesn't do it for this reason, but everybody always well, how can I help you back then? What can I do for you? And I think that a lot of that develops develops that relationship, whether it's personal, professional, whatever.
And I think those sort of things, if you're focused on how you can help people, the returns are gonna come. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No doubt. I totally agree. And I think, especially since we're this is an MSL podcast and we're we're talking to MSLs and MSL leaders and aspiring MSLs, it it it's it's all about the other person. It should be. It should always be. I'd rather help a person that can't do anything for me anyway. Right? I mean, I think, to me, that's the most fulfilling thing you can do.
Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Awesome. You were gonna say something, Kirsten? Oh, I just I'm I'm agreeing with what Josh said, and I think I think, you know, coming from a health care background as a clinician and just being wired this way towards it's a service and a care of others. And I think when you have that mindset, when you're reaching out to people, I think that I think that is seen. If that's part of who you are and how you operate your life, I think that comes through.
I've never I've never really, had an issue where someone was skeptical about why I was reaching out, and I and I I'd have to unpack and try to figure out what is it about what I'm doing. I'm not sure I could tell you that because I think I again, this is just an area of my life I don't overthink. And then I think kinda talking about that risk part, given that there's really no downside to this, I think about what is the upside that you potentially would miss out on.
And in the case of Josh, I would miss out on having this wonderful friend and colleague, that lives, what, five, ten minutes from me? So that so I think about it. Take take try not to see it as a risk, but if you do see it as a risk, take it because it's not it's not one that has a downside at all that I can see. And feel free to disagree with me, but I just it's one I'd have a hard time seeing what what you stand to lose by by making sure that That's great advice. That's great advice.
Hey. Can we talk about, like, the emergency pizza, get togethers? Can we talk about that? Yes. Josh because I know that's a part of that's a part of this friendship. So who wants to explain that? Oh, gosh. Well, Josh is probably one of the only people I know who can clear his schedule in about ten seconds. With all of the plates he has on sticks, he's able to juggle really well. So sometimes you just have to have an emergency pizza.
And, Tom, you're welcome to join us too if you can get on a plane. Listen. I love any kind of pizza. Emergency pizza. I love cold pizza. I love pizza with stuff on it. I love pizza plain. So, yeah, man. Sign me up. Sign me up. It's the nice thing about having that local network too. Right? Is Yeah. You have someone close, and and I have it with other people too that don't live close, and they'll either shoot a message or call or I'll make time for it. Right?
Again, that's that's important to me to prioritize that and help people how I can. I I love that you brought up the local network. Like I said, I met another friend in Boulder. You're even closer to me than him. I recently reached out to someone on LinkedIn, same sort of thing. I saw they had similar background. They worked in gene therapy. They worked in rare disease. All this overlap with me. Saw they were in the Denver area.
So I sent out a request, got this message back saying, oh, you know, I see your I I live in a town called Erie. I'm like, oh, I I live in Erie too, you know, and we just keep narrowing it down narrowing it down. We haven't met in person yet because this was just literally in the last week or two here that we started doing this. We I finally said exactly what neighborhood, what area of the neighborhood, because it's a relatively big neighborhood that we just moved into.
And she's like, we can't be far away. So I'm like, this is my address. We're, like, seem like a trustworthy person. She sends hers back, and I put it into Google Maps. It's literally 450 feet from my house. It's the next block over. And I'm like, how can I not be connected to you? Like, we're we literally can walk to each other's houses. I'm sure our kids are gonna be at the same pool this summer. Like, I wanna know who that is instead of going to a pool.
Some are seeing these people that I essentially don't know even though they're my neighbors. Like, now I have a professional connection that's probably already gonna be a friend of mine Yeah. 500 feet from my house. Crazy. Awesome. Well, let's let's, let's start to wrap this up. I have one more question for both. Same question for both of you guys.
So, Kirsten, if you could leave listeners with one final thought about courage and bravery and opportunity and, you know, just building genuine relationships through networking, what would it be? I think it's just really to understand the world we live in now. We are a bit siloed. We work a lot of us work remotely. We work in in different ways than, say, people worked ten, twenty years ago. And so we have tools and ways to connect us if if we use them.
And I think, again, using those tools in a way that's that where your authentic self comes out and you're just, using them as as the way to make that connection is is something to just embrace, really. And, again, for the overthinkers out there, I see you and I hear you. I would maybe try to put that to the side because I think this is an area where it just doesn't come into the the equation much.
And, again, I would if there's anyone who has having trepidation over this, send me a LinkedIn message. Find me, because I think there's just so much value in getting to know people, and then also connecting people with other people. It's just it's the way it's the way we do things now, and I think it's exciting and fun. And and there's just everything to gain and nothing to lose. Awesome. Josh, what about you? Same question. Like, what advice do you have for folks? You know, be authentic.
Be who you are. Don't be afraid to put things out there. Don't have that fear of failure. You know, again, it's not the end of the world if you don't connect with every person in the world. I know a lot of people. I don't know everybody. There are more there are more people out there. And even if you do connect with someone and they're not you're not aligned, it's not the end of the world. There will be people.
You won't you won't find the people you align the most most with if you don't try to get out and interact with people. Right? And I think, you know, underlying it all, I I love what Kirsten was saying. I mean, are social creatures. Right? Yeah. I don't care if you're introverted, extroverted, whatever. It's just naturally what we are. And I think, you know, having community and having that support and knowing where to go and and meet that is it's everything in every every area of life.
You going going it alone is you might go fast again. Right? But together, you go far. And I think that's that's networking opens those doors for you. %. Awesome. Well, guys, this was great. I appreciate you both. I love your story, and I love your friendship. And you guys are amazing. So thank you both for being here and for sharing it. Yeah. Thanks for having us. It's always a blast. I could do this all day. Yeah. You can. Me too. Well and, guys, thank you for all your support of this show.
Thanks for joining us. Thanks for sharing this with other people. Appreciate all your support, and we will see you next time. Thanks, guys.