Hey, guys. Welcome to the podcast. My guest today is our very own Sara Snyder. She is a senior medical affairs recruiter on my team here at The Carolyn Group. And she shares 13 common interview mistakes that can keep you from landing your next job. It's an awesome conversation. Anyone that's interviewing absolutely need to listen to this. Or if you have an interview coming up, you should absolutely follow or connect with Sarah on LinkedIn, if you haven't already.
And don't forget to check us out on YouTube. All of our videos go up on YouTube for this podcast. And we also do something called MSL Talk Live, which is the 1st Tuesday of every month at 1:30 PM EST. And it's a live discussion just like this podcast, and it's on LinkedIn Live. So check that out. You have to follow me on LinkedIn to see the announcements. And thank you for joining us, and thank you for sharing these episodes.
Welcome to MSL Talk with Tom Caravella, a podcast specifically designed for MSLs and all things field medical. Hey, Sarah. Welcome back to the podcast. How you doing? Hi, Tom. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited. So, guys, it's been, let's say, a year since Sarah joined us. So she's been on my team as a recruiter. She is absolutely crushing it. I mean, crushing it. And I know a lot of you guys may have either connected with her, follow her content.
If you don't, you absolutely, positively should, from this point forward, follow Sarah, connect with her on LinkedIn, and just check out. Her content's amazing. So wanted to have her to come back on the show and talk about what she's experienced over the course of the past year, specifically as it relates to interviews and where are some of the common mistakes that she makes. Before we get into it, I wanna do a quick shout out, to our friends in Italy.
So we actually broke into the top 10 in rankings this week in Italy, so you guys know that I am half Italian and I'm half Portuguese. I'm actually more Italian than Portuguese. I think I'm, like, 56% of the time. So shout out to all of my friends and family and everyone that is Italian that listens and everybody who's Italian in general. But so let's get into it.
Sarah, why don't we start with an introduction just so that anybody that may not know who you are, you can just give them a background. Yeah. Absolutely, Tom. And like you said, I have been part of your crew for just over a year, and I've loved every minute of it. And I'm thankful for the opportunity to work with all the people that are out there listening that I have gone to spoken speak with and then, you know, those of you that I'll get to work with in the future.
As far as the intro, you know, I've been on Tom's team for a year, but before that, I worked at medical affairs in a variety of roles, small biotechs all the way up to big pharma, for over 20 years. And I'm a pharmacist by training. So that's me. Well and and, guys, like, Sarah's really super humble, but, like, she was a freaking kick ass MSL for 20 years. So let's let's be fair about that part of it. So she knows the MSL space inside and out.
And now that you're a recruiter, let's talk about the things that you're noticing out there. And when it comes to interviews, like, what's the number one thing? What's one thing that pops up in your mind as far as a mistake that you see people make? So where do we start? Yeah. And before I even say what the mistake is, I just wanna share that, like, I made these. And I made them all the time. Like, not all the time because I didn't interview very frequently. But that's that's the point.
Like, if you're out there working, you're not interviewing very often. Right? It was every maybe 3, 4 years that I had the opportunity to do that. And so I made these mistakes that I see now people making every day. So I when you suggested this topic, I'm like, this is perfect because it now kind of comes naturally to me that I see them. But before, it was just you know?
So I I the point of that story is don't feel bad if you've done some of these because these are true candidate stories that I'm gonna share. But, like, I did them. Like, almost everybody is making mistakes. You know? So it's just part of the process, and it's learning from them. So the number one thing, and you and I talk about this on social media, on LinkedIn all the time, is enthusiasm.
So it's literally when I call someone or when they get on the Zoom call with their, prospective interview, you know, hiring manager, they don't show enough enthusiasm. And I'm talking when they pick up the phone. Like, I'll call, and if you answer the phone and you're muffled hello? It just sets the tone right there, and you don't even think about it because we all answer the phone. You know, you're just kinda like, hello?
But if you know that a recruiter or hiring manager is calling, like, get yourself standing up. It sounds silly, but stand up for the phone call and, you know, answer like you would in person with some enthusiasm. Hi. This is Sarah. Hi. This is Tom. You know? And show that you're ready for that call. And then, you know, taking that, I think the other thing I struggle with is keeping that enthusiasm all the way to the end.
So your goodbye should be as strong as your hello, and obviously maintain that throughout. But it's tough. It's hard to keep that, especially in a virtual world or on the phone. But that's the number one thing I see. Totally agree. And and I've said this a bunch of times on this podcast. I say this almost like, literally, I feel like I say it every day. But when all things are equal in a job search, the position is always given to the person who shows they want it the most.
If you answer the let's just go back to that phone thing. If you go onto an interview or if you if you're answering the phone for a phone screen or even if it's just talk to a recruiter and it sounds like you're not sure who's calling you or you're not prepared or you're not just not excited to hear from that person, it sets a negative tone. It shows lack of interest. The thing that is important about this, guys, is you can control this. This is in your control.
There are gonna be certain things that you can't control. You can certainly control the energy, the sound in your voice, your tone, your the amount of excitement and desire for that position is all on you. So I would second this. I think it's definitely the number one. Don't make this mistake. Make sure that you get yourself ready, excited, and upbeat for every interaction. 100%. What's number 2? Where do we go now? Number 2 is treating the virtual interview as important as it was in person.
And I'll say, I admit, I never interviewed in the virtual environment. Mine were always the ones where you had a stack day, you had your presentation, you had your suits, you were ready to go. Everything was buttoned up. It's not that way anymore. So we have to change and we have to evolve and we have to treat the virtual setting as important as we would. And I know you've said that on the podcast before, but I can't.
We have people every day that lose out on this because they show up in, you know, a call, a shirt, you know, just like they're just, you know, hanging out. You've gotta come to the end of you like you would in person. And it, it it is unfortunate. And I get it when it's like a 5 day stretch and maybe just wear your suit cut. But you know what? You're probably gonna feel a lot better and you're gonna be ready too. So I get it. We're all super busy.
Your high the hiring manager is very busy too, and these are split up. And sometimes you've gotta do them at a hotel or you're trying to you know, we have people that are doing them from the car. And that virtual world, the car is good because it's quiet. You don't have to worry about, like, the dogs and kids. But I will say people are using that, you know, like, the blurred background. It's Tom's doing it right now. And, actually, it's yours is really good on Zoom.
On Teams, we have to be careful with it because your head pops around when you talk, and it can be really distracting. So just be careful with that. If at all possible on Teams, try not to use one of their blurred backgrounds. But like I said, if it's Zoom, Tom looks good right now, and he's doing that. So I think we can safely say that that is a win. But just overall, like, Tom already said, control the controllables, and I had that in my notes. And this is something you can totally control.
Dress for the job that you want. Get the background noise. Cut it out, and then watch what your virtual or your real background is. So 1000%. 1000%. And, yeah, shout out to my friends in South Florida. So I am on location. I'm in South Florida right now. So and I'm in a new place. So I just bought this new place and, and I'm trying to figure out, like, where am I gonna do my podcast from? So anyway, yeah, blurred background.
But here's the thing, guys, like, just like Sarah said, this is something that it's such an, I think, it's such an easy fix. But if you don't take it seriously, it could work against you and you won't even realize it. You probably won't even know. But one of the things that drives hiring managers crazy is when they're prepared for an interview and they're they're handling it like it's live, but the other person is not taking it seriously enough.
So for example, we had a hiring manager say to us, yeah. We're not gonna move forward with that candidate. They showed up for the interview like they just got done mowing the lawn. Mhmm. And and, you know, they could see you. They see how your just they're judging you. They they're you're literally literally going to be judged on how you show up. And look, and and like Sarah said, you know, pants are optional. Like, make sure that you look professional.
Every once in a while, someone's gonna say stand up. We wanna see how you're if you're dressed, you know, completely, like, so I'm joking, but still, like, just be your best. Take the time to stage your background. Test the technology so that you know that everything's gonna be working, And at least that part of it that, again, that's in your control, you won't have to worry about. So 100%. Let's go to number 3. What's number 3? Yeah. Number 3 is overdoing on the, like, the elevator pitch.
And, you know, we used to practice this when I was in MSL, and we would say, like, what are you gonna how do you describe yourself to a doctor? So this is absolutely not a waste of your time to really button up your elevator pitch because it's something that once you land your role, whether it's an MSL or another medical affairs role or, whatever you're looking to do, you're gonna do this each and every day. You're gonna be introducing yourself.
And if you're this long winded on and on about your details that just aren't relevant to the person, to the job, to whatever project you're working on. Like, you're just gonna be lost. People are too busy right now and just receive too many incoming things to process. And so a lot of times, if I call someone and they start, you know, going on and on and on, sometimes it'll last, like, 2 minutes plus, and they'll still be telling me about their education.
And, you know, what this you know, maybe something that they did in the lab or, you know, as a pharmacist, you know, when they worked at this clinical pharmacy way about, you know, 10 years ago. We really wanna know what you're what you've done that is gonna apply to the role and what you're gonna bring. So practice it. And I would try to get it 90 seconds. I know you've got some tools on this too, Tom, so I'll let you lead to those.
But, you know, get every and this goes to every answer in the interview process too. But, you know, 1 minute, 90 seconds, done. We don't want these 2 minute plus long drawn out things. You you lost people after a minute. I I mean, I I think that this is this could be a deal breaker. This is a first impression sort of thing, and it's not just on the interview that you have to consider this.
But, like, later on when you become an MSL or if you are an MSL and you're, you know, networking at a conference, or let's say you're networking with somebody to get a job and they ask you or you have a mentor, this applies to all different areas within your career, you don't wanna bore that person, you don't wanna make that person feel like, oh, my God, this person can't communicate. Right. This is another controllable.
This is something that if you take, and I would say, Sarah, I would even probably say 60 seconds. Try to keep this to, you know, at a maximum, even if you can get it down to 30 to 45 seconds. It's real simple. You want to just practice answering that question. Hey, tell me a little bit about yourself.
And then you're gonna go into a very succinct explanation of who you are, what makes you special, why they should consider you for the position, and don't forget to bring a level of excitement and enthusiasm and tell them what you want at the same time. And again, I don't wanna go into too much detail here, but what I will say is keep it brief, keep it specific, show your value. What's your value proposition? What's your scientific value proposition?
What are you Why would that person wanna hire you? Why would that person want to connect with you? Why would that person want to help you? Like, you want to use that 45 seconds. As a way of really grabbing that person. So think about that as you put this together. Yeah. I love that. And I think you'll agree with me. Bridgette and I were at the MSL conference or society conference, and we were working the booth. And we both agreed. We could tell.
Like, after that first 30 seconds, we're like, they'd be a really good MSL. And I obviously, you've gotta go through the entire interview process and whatnot. But I guarantee, usually, after, like, a minute on the phone with someone, I can tell, like, oh, this is a candidate that I'm gonna wanna work with, you know, and is gonna shine in the interview process. You can just tell in that very first thing. So hiring managers can definitely tell that too. For sure.
And if you are an MSL and someone says, hey. You know, tell me a little about yourself. Well, I'm an MSL with this organization. I specialize in this therapeutic area. I live in this this blah blah blah. And, you know, what I love most about what I do is this and, you know, and and just that alone with an energy of excitement and enthusiasm is just, it'll separate you from everybody else. So Yes. Alright. Let's move on to the next one. So what do we have next?
Okay. I love this one, but it's the like, it's the people that emphasize that they can do anything usually lose. So and it sounds, you know, like, jeez. You get on it, and you're showing this enthusiasm, and you really wanna like, I am capable of doing anything that you have for me. I can cover any therapeutic area. I can do any projects. It's just too much.
So, especially, I'm gonna, you know, tell the pharmacists out there, the ones that are clinical pharmacists that say, like, I can cover every therapeutic area. You're really until you get some medical affairs experience, once you get that, then you need to bridge whatever therapeutic area you're into what you wanna be in. But if you, you know, if you're it's that whole, it was a jack of all trades, master of none. It's true.
And so really buttoning down, like, what are your strengths, honing in on those and then playing those up, whether it's therapeutic area, whether it's you're really good at making PowerPoint slides, whatever it is, make a list of the top seven things, and those are your things. We don't need that list to be, you know, 25 and just for you to sound so excited. I I just want this job so bad I'm gonna do anything. No. It it just makes the person kinda, like, just almost too excited. You know?
And that's not the kind of enthusiasm we want. So really specific examples of what you've done, how that applies to the job, and your strengths, I think, versus, just your excitement to do anything. Yeah. Yeah. And and it I I have this conversation all the time with people that are, like, they're they they have trouble narrowing down their value proposition. But if you don't do that, then you're never gonna come off as an expert to anyone.
So Yeah. This this idea of overemphasizing your ability to do anything will backfire. Emphasizing your ability to do anything will backfire. You have to you have to show your value and your the the value proposition. I keep saying that word. Your value proposition. What are you an expert at? What are you really good at? What is going to attract the attention of somebody else so that they're gonna say, I wanna hire this person because they can do this, this, this, and this. Now, here's a tip.
When you're interviewing for a specific position, read the language in the job description and see what they want and tailor your approach and your value proposition based upon what is in that job description, what they're saying they're looking for. Because the more of a bull's eye that you can hit and show them, the more likely they are to wanna consider you for the position. But if you can't check the boxes of what they're looking for, then why would they hire you? Think about it that way.
So you have the answers to the test. The answers to the test is the job description. What is it about that job description that you need to hammer home so that that hiring manager, that HR person, that recruiter is gonna say, yeah. This is the right person for this position. Mhmm. Mhmm. Mhmm. Love it. Cool. Alright. I love that one. That's one that guys, that's a, like, a bonus one. Like, a lot of times, we all talk about that. This is like cutting edge, like, top shelf kind of stuff.
So I hope you guys are paying close attention. So let's go to number 5, I think we're on. Yeah. This is believing that the initial call is an information session. And I'll tell you guys, I just had a good friend of mine that didn't get moved forward in an interview because of this. And when you're get when you get experience, you know, Tom said, I did this for 20 years. You get a little bit, you know, I'm just gonna check this someone out. Like, I'll just sure.
I'll take a call with that company. You know, think about that before you agree to doing that and whether or not you really are interested in that company and not to do your research for the initial interview. Because, you know, if you don't, you're wasting your own time and you're wasting the hiring manager's time and you never know who's talking to you in the industry.
So you'd be surprised if, you know, 5 years later when you're looking and you really wanna be a part of that company, they're gonna look back and they're gonna remember people talk. And then you're like, well, yeah, they showed up to this interview, and they hadn't even, like, looked at our website. They didn't know what products were. They didn't know what the disease state was.
They asked me questions that they could literally go to www.whatever the company is.com and find, like, that's our pipeline. So it doesn't take a lot of time. Like, I'm talking if you spend an hour. Prepping for that, like, for for an interview, then you probably shouldn't take it. We all have an hour. I guarantee the week before your interview, you probably watch Netflix. So I I sound like a like, I'm, you know, almost lecturing here, but it's so important. Just it's your reputation out there.
So even if you're super experienced, I get it. You're busy, but so were the people on the other side, and it does trail with you. So I think, just the basic information, go to the website, do that. You might not get asked anything about it, and that's okay. But you're still gonna go in with more knowledge and know, like, if this is somewhere you would wanna work. And I've got a bonus for this one.
So the the bonus part here is the person that gets on with the hiring manager and actually makes an excuse and says, I didn't have time to check this out, but, you know, I thought I'd take this call. Like, it it just like, think about how that looks to the other person. You're essentially it'd be like going into the KOL and being like, hey. I didn't have time to prepare today, but, like, I'm glad to see. Like, just don't do it. Then don't don't take the interview. I mean, that's my opinion.
I don't know. What are your thoughts, Tom? No. I totally agree. I totally agree. And you guys have to understand that there's an expectation from the other side that you are coming to that interview prepared, that you're coming there knowing about the opportunity that you're interviewing with. Otherwise, if you don't know about it, you don't know company, why are you there?
Now and, Sarah, you said that I think this one is is the mistake is to not believe the the initial call is an information session. Information session. Mhmm. It's not it it's not an information gathering session. You are going to learn and you're going to get information, but the intention is not that that call is for you to gather information. You need to gather information beforehand Mhmm.
So that you can have questions and you can learn more about whether or not that opportunity is going to be for you and whether or not you're a good fit for the for for the company and and and so on and so forth. But the thing is, the expectation from the company is that you're coming in prepared. They're gonna ask you, guys, I guarantee it. But one of the first questions they're gonna ask is, why do you wanna work for a company? What do you know about our company?
And I talk about this all the time, but a lot of times they ask that question not to really see what the answer is, but just to see that you actually did the homework. That's so true. Mhmm. So as long as you could check the box and say, well, you know, as a matter of fact, I, you know, I spent quite some time reviewing your website, and I learned this and I learned that. I can't tell you how excited I am about this opportunity. I think it's a great company. It's exactly what I'm looking for.
And you go into it. They're gonna say, wow. Okay. This person did their homework, and that's what they wanna see. So that's a really good one, Sarah. I love that. So what's next? Alright. If you're driving or, like, working out, this one, you're gonna, like, just watch the road because you're gonna I would never do that, but you would be surprised. So number 6 is lie, exaggerate, or change dates. And I'll be specific here, and I'll give you an example that just happened last month.
I had a candidate that was laid off, not by working at the company anymore. It it had explained that to me, and we knew when he was done. He got on his initial interview, and he said he was still employed at that organization. It makes both of us look really bad. And I I'm shocked in the last year at how many times this type of thing happens. I think people aren't confident. And if you've been laid off, it's fine. Like, we we totally that people understand.
They expect they they just wanna know the dates. They wanna know, like, when is your final date? When is you know, if you have a severance, when is that up? Like, those specific things. But don't ever, like, fudge any of that because it comes back and it never looks good. But and then you end up trying to explain and it just doesn't make sense.
And I'll throw out another example too because I actually had someone provide this and, say that, you know, they they changed their job title to, like, a medical science liaison at a previous company just sit because, you know, it's so difficult and they can't show experience and they never got caught. You know what? If you did get caught, like, you're gonna be blacklisted. So just be careful. Like, don't ever lie. It always comes back to hurt you and just be really careful about your dates.
Transparency is always the best. Transparency is key, folks. I totally agree. And I know that that there's always some gray area and sometimes you're struggling with, you know, how do I position myself properly? Well, let me let me just add one other thing. If if there is gray area and you're really not sure and you're looking for advice, ask a recruiter. Ask someone like Sarah.
Ask someone like me, and and all my other competitors that are out there and and friends and colleagues that are recruiters. I know we all probably give similar, if not same advice on how to handle this stuff. And sometimes when you're in the situation, you're a little too close to the forest to see the trees. So you need somebody to help you and somebody to tell you what to do. We don't wanna see you lose on a technicality, and that's what happens when you get caught exaggerating.
And I I don't wanna use the word lie because I don't wanna insinuate that everybody's a liar out there. But Yeah. Some people flat out do lie. Some people exaggerate. Some people stretch things a little bit. And you just need to be careful. So this is a good one, and it does it could be a show stopper. It could be one of those things that when it comes up and when the company finds out, it's over. You're done. There's no explanation. It's done.
So just, guys, really be careful on this one for sure. So what's the next one? Yeah. Yeah. Number 7 is giving the wrong reason for looking for new roles. And, you know, we just said transparency is wonderful, But, honestly, sometimes if you're you know, you can go a little bit too far. And I get a lot of, like, I'm really burnt out or I'm bored in my current role or I'm on I'm unfulfilled.
If you go into a hiring manager with those reasons for seeking a new role, the hiring manager doesn't really care how you feel in your current role. They wanna know what you're bringing to them next. So it's you know, I just like to say, like, companies don't it's not that they don't care about you, but they're not looking like what, you know, what you're gonna get out of this. They're looking for what you can do for them.
So really, like, bringing you, you know, out of your boredom isn't their, you know, to do on their to do list. So I I really think you you already talked about it, Tom. Like, you you're coming in with why you're a good fit for the role and not necessarily why you're looking to make the change because your board are unfulfilled or, especially that burnt out. And I get it. Like, I I totally understand, especially those of you who that are, like, health care workers. Like, burnout is real.
Or if you're, you know, at an organization where you feel burnt burnt out, that I I get it, but it's just not something we wanna bring to the interview. This is a big one, guys. Sarah, you hit the nail on the head with this one. There's so much to unpack here. First and foremost, you have to think about what the other person like, the perspective of the hiring manager. So one of the things that hiring managers think it is, is this person running from something, or are they running to something?
You want them to think that they're running that you're running to something, not from something. So a common mistake is really overemphasizing why you're looking to leave a certain place or being overly negative about why you wanna leave or using negative language. So, Sarah, you hit the nail on the head. When people use terms like, burnt out or, unfulfilled or whatever, what's happening is you're setting a negative tone, and you're putting the conversation into this negative space.
And now what happens is that hiring manager is gonna start to think, well, this person's a Debbie Downer a little bit. I don't know if I want something like that on my team. Here's the other thing you have to keep in mind. They're going to think that if you're unfulfilled now or if you're burnt out now, what makes anyone think that you're not gonna be burnt out 6 months from now or unfulfilled 6 months from now if they hire you?
You're actually telling them what to think about you for the future. So go back to what we were saying before about the the piece about excitement, enthusiasm, and telling them why you're a good fit for the job, what your value proposition is, why you're you would be such a good asset to the organization, and how excited you are about it. And then when it comes to answering the question of, well, why are you looking to leave? Mhmm. Well, you know, you can't ignore it. You have to give a reason.
Yep. And quite often, sometimes that real reason is, well, I'm I'm really looking to grow in my career, and I'm looking to advance. So I'm I'm considering opportunities elsewhere to see if there's anything out there that might be a better fit for me and for my future. Mhmm. Not really saying anything negative about the company. It's not saying anything negative about you. It's all positive. It's all forward thinking. So Mhmm. I don't wanna go too much into that, but it is a big one.
So what do we have next, Sarah? You made the transition to the next one because you're talking about growing. So the next one is actually talking too much about ambition. So there is a sweet spot there. And I've had candidates, especially recently, that they've got big goals. And, you know, Tom and I love big goals.
But when it's in the interview process and you're talking about where you wanna be in, like, 4 or 5 years, and it's a couple levels ahead of the job that you're interviewing for, sometimes it can really hurt you. And the hiring manager can think, you know, they don't really wanna be in this role. They're just using as it is, like, as a stepping stone. So I think we really have to be careful about that.
And you have it's okay to share, like, my long term goal is whatever it is, but really after that focus on how you're going to bring your skills and grow in the role that you're interviewing for. And I'll say, especially like those stepping stone rules, sometimes we've had a lot of them, Tom, where those specifically, the hiring manager, like, for a meta info role will say, don't bring me a candidate that just wants to use this as a bridge. Like, they know people are using it as a bridge.
But if you just flat out say, like, well, I wanna be a MSL, but, like, you know, I'm just gonna do this to get there. Like, that's just not a good it it doesn't mean anything to the hiring manager. Sure. They want great things for you, but too much ambition during the interview process can harm you a little bit. Again, and and you bring up a really good point because how many times have we heard from hiring managers, like, well, this per the person's not gonna be happy in this role.
Yes. Mhmm. That's what happens. If you overshoot the mark and if you're too ambitious, they're gonna think, well, they're not really interviewing for this role. They're interviewing for their next role, or they're telling me that what they want next, which we're not sure we can provide for them. Maybe not now, maybe not ever. So I think it's good to be ambitious. Sarah and I are not saying he should be ambitious.
But interview for the role that's in front of you, if they ask you what your future ambitions, what your future outlook is, you can certainly share that with them. But just be careful not to overshoot the mark because it could come back to bite you. So okay. What is what are we on number 9? We're going to number 9. So number 9, we could do an entire podcast on this, especially, like I I said, I never interviewed in a virtual environment.
But really focusing on, like, your non like, what are you giving off in a virtual world, I think, will help you tremendously. So just a couple of things here. Just giving off the wrong verb the nonverbal cues is what the thing is. Like, you're the mistake that people make. But a couple easy fixes, like focus on your posture, make sure that you're looking at the camera, make sure we already talked about the background. Show your hands.
Practice. Like, I you know, actually set it up so that you can see, like, where is my laptop? How do I look on here? And then make sure you're not sitting too close or too far from the camera because that's another one that can just be a little awkward. Like, if you were in person, you wouldn't sit that close to the person.
So when you're, like, in camera, it can actually make the same have that same type of, like, vibe where you're just, like, the person's a little too close or a little bit too far and seems aloof. So, like, try to think about those kind of things as you go into the virtual. But, again, we can do a whole podcast on just that topic. We should because there's so much really good research on this.
And, guys, just so you know, and you've probably heard this before, but 93% of communication is nonverbal. Think about that. 93% of communication is nonverbal. So when you're in a virtual interview or if you're in back in, you know, in a live interview, you just wanna make sure to be mindful about your nonverbal cues. When someone's speaking, are you nodding your head? Are you showing that you're paying attention? You're creating eye contact. Eye contact's really, really important.
You have to make sure that you're maintaining eye contact with the people that you're speaking to because it creates trust and it shows your interest. It shows that you're listening. So if you have shifty eyes and if you're fidgeting, it's gonna give a nervous signal. It's gonna give a signal of that lack of interest and there's a lack of confidence. So just that piece alone is really important.
And one last thing I wanna add, Sarah mentioned showing your hands, which is so funny because right now I'm actually showing my hands because I talk with my hands. But what you showing your hands is is actually a way to establish trust. When people can't see your hands, they're not sure what your intentions are. Goes back to, like, the old days of, like, cavemen that were wondering if there was somebody coming out with a rock or a spear. So keep that in mind. We can do this.
We Sarah, you gotta come back. We gotta do this a whole podcast on nonverbal communication. So let's move to number 10. Yeah. 10 already hit on a little bit, but it's important enough to bring it up as its own. And it's bringing negativity or drama from a different role. And this one is short and sweet, Tom. It's it doesn't matter what it is. It doesn't matter if it's your boss. It doesn't matter if it was your territory, your company, the situation. It doesn't matter.
There's always avoid going negative. And a lot of that, you just don't need to bring up or you can have put a positive spin on it, but I'll leave it at that. No. You're right. We don't have to go into too much detail on this one, but, guys, just try to focus on your language. What what are the terms and phrases that you're using throughout the interview?
Are is it a positive tone, or are you or are you giving off this this negative, downward vibe that is just gonna make the person, whether it's conscious or subconsciously, feel that something is off. So just keep that in mind as you prepare for and as you're conducting the interview. Number 11. This one is using I or we too much. And for the women out there, women tend to use we because we, you know, we wanna give other people credit. We wanna be team players.
But you really have to make a conscious effort to use a mix of both. And the way the best way to do this as as you go through, you know, some of your specific examples, if there's something where you worked as a team, use we. But then the actual contributor the things that you did, you need to use I. So you just make a conscious effort. You might even wanna put a toast post it note up there, like, during your interview to remind yourself because this is one I was pretty bad at, to be honest.
I would go to we. And they wanna hear you say I too because otherwise, it's kinda like, well, did they you know, are they more just a follower? Are they more just, you know, a person that, you know I might need someone to step it up. So you wanna be a mix. That's a good one, Sarah. I mean, this is something that we don't. People don't talk about this a lot, but it's a really important one.
So guys, make a note of this and practice as you're talking to others and as you're, you know, doing your day to day interactions even with your own team. Just just really be cognizant of how often you do this. But I like the sticky note idea too. And what's number 12? Yeah. It's avoiding following up. And I think it it obviously, the thank you to who you spoke, you know, anyone that interviewed you, that goes without saying.
But I'm gonna take this a step further because I feel like there's a lot of people out there doing informational interviews. There's, people that maybe came to your presentation. And I know it's a lot of work, but sending those people a quick note. You know, if someone took the time to do an informational interview with you and help get you, you know, an screening, you need to, like, acknowledge that and thank them. I really think there's a lot of giving out there.
And on the other end, there's not a lot of people that are, you know, acknowledging that. And remember that the people that are giving your time, they're not they're not paid for that. They're doing that. There's a lot of MSOs that are out there helping you right now. They if you're not following up and thanking them, I think you're really, like, not shining as well as you could.
So, obviously, the thank you, but I'm gonna just take it a step further that you need to be acknowledging other people along the way that are helping you. 1000%. Again, this is another controllable, guys. I think that it's a mistake. If you if you don't do this and do it in a timely fashion. Follow-up is really, really important, and they're gonna be looking for it. Folks on the other side are gonna be looking to see that you sent thank you notes, looking to see that you followed up.
Again, this goes back whether or not you're really truly interested, in the opportunity. So are we at number 13? Yeah. We're at number 13. This is it. Alright. Okay. So 13, is something that we all know, but somehow it slips in there. And it's about asking about salary, benefits, vacation, especially in those initial interviews. And I know there's so much out there online and so many good resources about advocating for yourself and getting the maximum salary that you can. I get it. You should.
But that initial conversation or until you get to the right spot, it's not the time, and you you can lose because of that. I you know, whatever that one friend you know, almost everybody that I've worked with has that one friend that told them, you know, make sure who you're getting advice from as far as, you know, when to bring up certain questions and what to ask for.
Because that one friend probably doesn't work at the company that you're interviewing for and has a completely different situation. So, just really as far as salary, benefits, vacation time, trip that you wanna take, like, talk to your recruiter. Don't bring that up in the in the interview setting. Such a good one. Because this could be a deal breaker, guys, and and there's gonna come a time when you're going to talk about all this stuff.
But just be careful how you handle the first date is my advice. You don't wanna disclose too much or ask too many questions that are what we would call kind of stepping over the line for the first interview and the initial phases of the interview. As things go further, you're gonna have plenty of time to get into this, whether it's through a recruiter like us that you're working through or somebody on the HR side.
But if you're on a phone screen with a hiring manager and you start talking about salary and vacations and, and benefits and stuff like that, First of all, it really shows lack of professionalism. And those aren't the questions that you need to know on that first interview.
Be prepared with a really good list of questions that are gonna help you decide whether or not you wanna pursue the opportunity for what it is as far as roles, responsibilities, and what it's gonna do for your career versus how much you're gonna get paid. You'll get there, and hopefully, that'll all work out, but you need to get those questions, the most important questions answered first. So, guys, I I I learned a lot. I mean, Sarah, Sarah is so good.
I mean, this is such really, really good stuff, and I wanna say that it's practical. It's current. It's stuff that she has seen firsthand. So, Sarah, any final thoughts before we close out? Yeah. No. I mean, you know how competitive things are in today's market. So, obviously, we would just wanna help you show that you could show up at every phase of the interview, you know, in the best pass possible light. So Well, you're the best. Thank you, Sarah. Thank you guys for listening.
Thank you all for your support. If you like this, please share it with others, and definitely listen to it before your next interview. Take care, guys. Thank you so much for listening to the show. And if you enjoyed it, please subscribe so that you don't miss an episode in the future. And feel free to leave a rating or a review or a comment. Thanks again, and we look forward to seeing you soon.