55. Moving My Family Abroad To Do A PhD with Dr Sidra Iftikhar

Here we're changing the overwhelmed juggle struggle narrative around what it means to be a mama on an academic journey to one of empowerment , fulfillment and purposeful success . So how do we successfully navigate these journeys ? Well , first we need the space to embrace this unique blend .

Let's begin by saying yes to creating a life that feels as good on the inside as it looks on the outside , because that's when we truly become purposefully whole .

So get ready for the most non-traditional , unconventional and revolutionary approach to PhD motherhood , because one thing I have learned over my many years of experience on this journey is that if you want something different , you have to do something different .

You want something different , you have to do something different , but you must be brave enough to think differently first . So , mama , are you in Fabulous ? Let's begin . These are our journeys of becoming . Hey mama , welcome back to the podcast .

As you know , we're into our second year of this podcast , and one of the things that I want to do more of on the show is to share the stories of other mamas , other scholarly mamas , who have navigated this journey of PhD motherhood successfully , and I wanted to share some of those voices with you .

And so , on today's show , we've got a very special guest who I will introduce in a moment , but before we do that , if this is your first time listening to the show , thank you for being here and , if you wouldn't mind , if you do enjoy what you hear on this show , please leave a kind review at the end of the podcast episode and make sure you subscribe so

that you don't miss a new episode as soon as it drops . Also , come join us inside Scully Mama's Explore . You can find the link in the show notes . It's completely free and we cannot wait to welcome you . It's always nice to have new faces , and so until then , mama , thank you so much for being here . Without further ado , let's tune into the episode .

Today we have a very special guest , dr Sidra Iftikhar , and I'm so excited to have you on the show . Dr Sidra is a mama of one daughter and she has a PhD in e-learning .

She's also got a bachelor's and master's in computer sciences and , although I know she is from Pakistan , she completed her PhD in Spain , so I'm really excited to hear all about what that was like doing your PhD abroad .

I think it's a really unique situation , isn't it , and brings a lot of unique challenges , and I really wanted to dive deeply into that with you today . I know I've given a brief introduction about your story to our beautiful listeners , but could you share a little bit about yourself before we get into the interview ?

So , based on that , I decided to do my PhD and in master's I realized that I have keen interest for research in general . So I thought why not take this new avenue to just see how it works and yeah .

I mean , okay , I decided to do it abroad but then , like in my university , there were people coming from different parts of the world and it was an interesting experience . So I really wanted to have that experience and so that was my main motivation yeah , to do it abroad . Different people from different cultures , from different backgrounds .

Sharing of , I mean , with the PhD is one time in your life that you have colleagues but you are not competitors per se . So it's like these bonds they last , I I would say , for a longer time .

Because I mean , when probably you're working in an industry or company , you have this thing that , ok , somebody is getting more paid than me , or you know you're aiming for that promotion .

But often in like your PhD journey , you keep on meeting people in your university area who are completely working on a completely different topic and they're not your competitors per se . Some of them could be , for example , if you're working in the same lab . But I think these bonds and these friendships are really empowering and they enrich you in certain ways .

So that was my experience and also research-wise , I would say that I had wonderful supervisors who were always there to support me and even though in the beginning , like when I started with a topic , it wasn't a very good experience and then I had to change my supervisors , but then later on it got pretty well and it was smooth .

Then later on , it got pretty well and it was smooth . Also , spain has a very good weather , weather conditions , so that's always good right , exactly because I mean , you're working and you know , as in during your phd , your mental health is not pretty good .

We , we all know that , and especially in your last years , and also when you start on the topic and you're new , you're exploring , sometimes you feel stuck and you need the sun , you need the rain , you need , you know , different variations in the weather , you need the beach to feel better .

So , yeah , that was my motivation for moving abroad , and especially Spain , to pursue my PhD .

How did that go for you ?

Uh , we had a couple of you know , conversations around that and then , uh , I mean , my main uh point of convincing him was that , okay if we move abroad , because one good thing and one , I would say , one thing that played a lucky part in this is that he's from the it background as well .

So , uh , they mostly work in english , so it's , it's easier for him to . It seemed at that time easier for him to relocate and find a job here . Of course , it was a little hard in the beginning .

For example , in the first three months he was working remotely with his company in Pakistan and then , even though there wasn't a concept of remote work at that time , but they were kind enough to offer him that , ok , you move , and it would also be easier for us in the initial part , we do not need to , you know , train another professional and things like that

. So maybe it's , you could continue working with us . But of course he had some issues with the time difference he had to manage that ? Yes , of course , but then he was brave enough , with me as a team , to take this challenge , to start this adventure of maybe starting a life somewhere else .

Uh , as well , um , of course , when you leave your home country , you do not leave your . You know roots and you you don't . You don't leave it , but then you move to another place . You're not like locals , but it's , it's , you're somebody new . So so he was happy to .

Initially he was a bit reluctant , but then , uh , thinking about the prospects and thinking that , okay , with with this hope that he would find a job here as well , uh , it took him two , three months , but it was , um , I mean , given the fact that here , spanish is the main language and you need to learn the language to have more job opportunities , etc .

But it was easier for him in in that regard . So we took this risk and we tried to . You know , we were what we thought was that ? Okay , worst case , if nothing happens , we come back . So , yeah , so that was the thing that we come back after a few months and then we restart our life here . But if it works , it works .

So I think it's important to also take risks and , as a couple as well to grow , because when you come out of your comfort zone and come out of how you have been living and everything how it is when you move abroad or to relocate to another place , so I think that coming out of your comfort zone is always a step towards growth .

So , being a mum pursuing your PhD , as you've highlighted and as I know , comes with its own unique challenges . But how did you manage to juggle your academic commitments , your family life obviously being away from from your family and what specific strategies or support systems helped you to navigate that ?

But then one good thing that happened was that , uh , we , we were lucky enough to find a good um they call it here guarderia , but it's like the daycare so right and yes , then , yeah , exactly so , and so this was like the first year for her .

That , because here in Spain , kids go to school when they are three or they're born in , like , for example , if my daughter , my daughter , was born in 2016 . So all the kids who were born in 2016 , they go to school in 2019 , irrespective who were born in 2016, . They go to school in 2019 , irrespective if they were born in January or December .

I was lucky that she was born in January , so she was three and a half when she started going to school .

Another good thing is that the schools are from nine in the morning to 4.30 in the afternoon , so this schedule of the school , the school systems in general , it acted as a support system for us , and then , of course , in the weekdays , I would drop her off in the beginning to the daycare with the same hours . It was a bit hard for her In the beginning .

She was like Mama , I don't like going there . But then eventually she integrated with the kids and and I believe that at two or two and a half they are at this age that they need to socialize with other kids .

They need to learn how to share and not just be , you know , prince or princess in their own domain and you know , so I , rather than , of course , there were days that I felt guilty that I'm not you know , my kid is probably not liking it initially , and then I remember one day that I was actually like crying . Maybe I took the right decision or not .

But now , when I look back and also when I was , you know , looking at my the passing months I was realizing that , you know , there is progress . My kid is learning how to socialize , how to , and on top of that , she was also learning the Catalan language , catalan and Spanish , both because she was interacting with the kids Catalan language , catalan and Spanish .

Both because she was interacting with the kids and the teacher spoke with me in English . But then she was speaking with my daughter in Catalan , and this helped her navigate better in the school system as well , because the medium of education here in Barcelona is Catalan and Spanish comes as a secondary language , and then English . So

, all in all , to summarize , I would say that my support system was the school and the daycare . Yeah and uh with my strategy . Like the strategy that I had was it's not something very , I would say , technical or something out of the box , but it was that I had to manage my time between these hours , no matter what I mean .

I remember there were days when I used to be with just with another mom in the university and we used to be there at nine in the university on our desks and working , but the other PhD students with their own schedules , they were at times coming at 11 or 12 or something .

And then I think in Spain we love to take long lunch breaks , so I also have to be pretty mindful of that . That , ok , I mean enough time to bond and socialize with the colleagues , but not , but not procrastinating on you know different things , and just making sure that , uh , it , it works .

Uh , I mean , I have that time window from 9 to 4 30 , so maybe taking an hour off lunch break , but then making sure that I'm focused with using different strategies that phd students normally . For example , promo domo , that's what they call it that you focus for 25 minutes , you take a five minute break . So that is , that's how I try to manage my time .

One unfortunate part was that this was my first year and a half and then COVID hit Of course yes , so yeah . I was home , my husband was home and our three and a half year old was home .

But the good thing was that the schools they started back in September with a very nice strategy of like a smart lockdown that kids from my class , my kids class , would not interact with any other kid Right , would not interact with any other kid right class . Like you know , yeah , they were having , like , uh , confined groups .

Yes , so if there was a case in one class , they would , you know , uh , put that entire class in lockdown and they had to be home , they had to isolate and they made sure that , you know , from , kids from class three were not mixing with the grade four or something like that . Yeah , to just make sure that the system could work .

Yeah , and also , they , everything was closed supermarkets , and everything was closed . We were also in like a small district kind of lockdowns that we couldn't go out a lot of our district . We had to , you know , have a special permission .

So , in short , the schools started working and I had that you know , support back with me to help me navigate through the PhD .

When that , when that was taken away , because then we were left with no child care , no support , um , it's really difficult .

Yeah , you know , and one of the things I wanted to pick out there , from what you said as well , was idea of when you're a mom navigating this journey and you know you've got that narrow window of 9 to 4.30 or 9 to 3 or 9 to 6 , and how that really enhanced your productivity , your efficiency , just making sure that you get your work done in that time .

I completely relate to that because there were so many other PhD students that had so much time and I'm like I don't have this amount of time , so I've got to really make sure that the time I do have available I make it productive , and I think that was really a bonus actually of navigating this journey as a mom .

So it's really lovely to hear that you had the exact same experience and how that helped you to make sure you got that work done in that time , because there was no other time . Come evening , that's it . You know it's over . You've become mum again , right ?

Yeah , I wanted to ask you about because you mentioned about your daughter benefiting from interacting with the other children in the school and learning another language , because obviously this was not Catalan , spanish , they were not her first tongues , and so I wanted to know how did that cultural shift impact your PhD journey and what advice would you give to other

mothers who may find themselves

in that situation of having to learn a new language or having to be in a new culture ? How did you navigate that ?

And , to be very honest , I would say that I'm not that proficient in the languages right now . Now , because my medium of education at the university , with a PhD and everything , was in English . But then again it's like I have been going to Spanish schools on my own schedule now to learn Spanish .

That's awesome and then also with my daughter , because now she has homework and things like that . So it's like I am passively learning the Catalan language as well . So it's not . I mean , in the beginning I was like , okay , I'm happy , I'm with , I'm , I'm speaking English and we have we live in a very what do you call ?

A technological era that , ok , I have the Google translator , I do not need to worry about the language , which is , which is true ? That , ok , if I need to speak a phrase or something , so I could easily translate from English to Catalan or Spanish and communicate it to the teacher . But then again , I was in .

Even in that time , I was passively learning the language . Like , for example , my daughter was coming home and she was , she was mixing the languages in her own way . In a phrase , there was English , there was Spanish , there was Catalan and our first language , urdu . That okay , if she needs an apple , so probably .

She was just saying the apple part in catalan and I was like , okay , what is she saying ? I need to , I need to know that . So , apart from doing the phd thing , this was another way I was learning .

I was passively learning a new language and I I don't know if you could call it like a motherhood skill to you know be able to communicate with your child better .

I think that is just remarkable , what you've been able to accomplish , and you should be . I know your daughter is very proud of you . I know she's very proud of you , but you should be very proud of yourself , because that is not an easy thing to do .

Um so I know that your husband and daughter played a huge role in your PhD journey and navigating that in in Spain . But how did you maintain a strong support system within your family , especially during the times of academic pressure ?

It's a box with people that are trying to compete with you know , thinking that , okay , we need to have the highest impact factor , we need to publish here , we need to do that , we need to do that . So it's like , of course , people in industry have their competitions and their I wouldn't even call it competitions but their goals as well .

But I feel that in academia , people feel a lot pressured because of this , because there is always a good journal to publish , there is always a new grant to pursue , there is there are always these , these kind of things .

You know , and I'm sure that you can relate to that , of course , yes , so the thing is that , and you would all , you would be most of the times impacted by that and you would want to , you know , do your best and compete with others , and you know things like that .

But the thing , the important thing is that you also need to enjoy the process , and enjoy the process and also you need to tell yourself that I don't have to be in that hustle culture .

So , talking about that , the thing that I had to accept in like being a mom and being a wife and , you know , being in another country was that I could be finishing late than my other , the other people who started with me , so this means that I had to make peace with the fact that I would go at my own pace .

So , and also it it plays an important role that your supervisor also understands that this is important , rather than they're saying , hey , you didn't do this on this time , blah , blah , blah . So you know that they don't feel , make you feel that pressure .

It's important that they tell you that you know you need to be on the right track and you need to progress in this , this , this way . These are your goals , but they also need to be flexible and , first of all , you need to be flexible with your own self . This is important , that you need to understand that .

Oh , yes , so it's like , it's like you need to . Uh , you need to stop hustling within that hustle culture of academia and I really , really hope that . I feel that it's like breaking the generational cycle .

So I really hope that people of our generation who are in academia they accept that and we have a better culture in the following years and everybody's not just , you know , running like that , because I feel that the previous generation is not like that . They need to have that , they need to be on , be full professor at this age .

They need to have these many number of papers published in some journal and you know they're pretty fast at these kinds of things . I'm sure , and I would want to believe , that with that pace they are trying to keep , they are affecting other aspects of their life . I'm sure of that .

I mean , it's not humanly possible that you have kids , you have spouses and you are working 24 hours to compete with certain things . You're affecting your mental health and I'm sure you're affecting your relationships as well .

So I hope that with our generation , we break this cycle and we say that , okay , everybody in academia , we need to reach a certain level , but we need to also focus on our own well-being , our own mental health and our family life as well , because , first of all , mental health and our family life as well , because first of all , you matter if you you cannot

pour with , you know with from an empty cup . So if I'm frustrated , my daughter , what am I going to ? You know , talk to her about so yeah . So I think this is , this is what is important to learn to . This is the first thing .

And then , of course , I do understand that sometimes people there are I'm sure that there are single moms out there who need to meet expenses for their kids .

There could be single dads out there who need to , you know , meet expenses for their kids and they need to be a part of that culture to navigate the hierarchy up to be able to earn better for their kids . So , yes , of course , that could be unfortunate .

So in that part , I think your spouse matters a lot , that they are supporting you financially , emotionally and in every aspect they could .

So then again , I would give that credit to having a good team at your home , which is your spouse and also your kids , because when I started , my daughter was two , but now she is big enough to understand that , okay , this is the time mommy is busy , I need to give her some time . Of course , she's a kid and she needs .

She's demanding at times , which is natural . But then again , this is also important for , okay , mommy , you're working , okay , I can , we can do this a bit later , but you know we could work around with your schedule , on your schedule , we could paint when you know you're free .

And I like how you said you know we can be the change , like we can be the change in the way that we have been operating in in academia and you know , and make space for people who have whole lives , you know , who have kids , who have partners , who want to enjoy life outside of of academic work , and that there is still a space for those people as well .

So I love , I love that thought . Yeah , so , now that you have finished your PhD journey , now looking back , what were some of the most rewarding aspects of your academic journey that you want to share ?

And then there are small , small chunks during your PhD that you feel are highly rewarding and you're you think that , okay , maybe I'm not able to do that , for example , when you are analyzing your data .

So it's like , okay , you build on something and you have like a hypothesis , and then for months you are trying to build that and then after that you are okay , uh , okay now . So so now what ? Okay , all the results are in front of me .

So the process of research in general , from you know , inception of the idea and um , to actually conducting the research and reflecting on the results and everything was I felt . I felt that was pretty . That research process was rewarding for me .

It was enriching for me in different ways , because there are disappointments , a lot of them , and every day you come out being a bit more resilient . Okay , that it doesn't matter , we do not . If plan A is not working , we go to plan B , plan B is not working , we go to plan C , but we do go somewhere .

So I think that , uh , with , of course , the research part is separate , but then it's your personality that you know that also enriches in its own way . So the resilience part in your personality is is something that I think I developed over years with this thing that okay , that everything is going to be fine at the end .

So if it's not fine , then probably it's not the end .

made are also really rewarding for life I assume that , yeah , so , and I have confidence in them and then I can speak to them about my problems , things related with research , things in my life , and you know these , these friendships that I got , as you know , side side thing from my phd .

So one of my friends told me that you know you need to celebrate your small wins . That , okay , okay , you did not publish the paper , but you sent the first bad draft to your supervisor , because of course , the first draft is always , is always , bad . Yes , you send your first bad draft to your supervisor .

So go out , celebrate , have a chocolate , have a coffee from your favorite coffee place or something . So celebrate small wins , not maybe like with a party , but with something that makes you feel that accomplishment . That , okay , I did this .

So it doesn't matter what the word yeah , it thinks what my supervisor thinks , maybe supervisor reads and then in two , three days , they well , they never return in two , three days , but in two , three months they send it back to you with you know , you know that entire red draft , that we have that .

Okay , everything is underlined , what is this Question mark and things like that . They will send it back to you that way , but celebrate that day . It's very important for your mental health , and when you feel good , your family , your friends , your system feels good . That is what is important .

But when you break that down into those little steps , those little milestones , those little you know achievements along the way , it doesn't feel as insurmountable . It feels like you know achievements along the way , it doesn't feel as insurmountable .

It feels like you know what , you're still making progress , you're still moving forward , you're still working in direction of your goals . So I think that's so important to celebrate those and acknowledge them , because quite often we kind of think , oh well , it wasn't a final draft , so I don't need to celebrate anything .

But , like you said , sending that first bad draft that is . You know that's , that's huge . Right , that's huge . Because who wants to send a bad draft ? Nobody wants to do that .

So the fact that you have done that should be celebrated and that's how you get through all of the , the challenges and the hurdles on this journey is taking one at a time , celebrating the little wins and letting that motivate you to keep going . So I think that's brilliant advice .

This isn't about being perfect , right , isn't about , you know , going from zero to hero , but it's about the journey of becoming whoever it is that you want to be and whatever it is that you want to be , so that gives our kids that little bit of motivation as well to pursue their dreams and their goals . Yeah , yeah , I agree .

Were there any unexpected joys or challenges that you'd like to share with our listeners , particularly those mamas contemplating or currently undertaking their PhD journeys abroad ?

But then again , if you come out of your comfort zone , then you meet new people . You would explore new cultures . That is an enriching experience , not just for your own self , but also for your kids . Enriching experience not just for your own self , but also for your kids .

They could , they could be another person if you are living in , you know , in your back , in your main home , where you were born , and probably they were born there as well .

But then again , if , um , it , it could be , it could sound a bit challenging but then , for example , if you need to learn a new language , you need to learn a new way to interact with people . That's in itself , when you reflect back , is a joy that you know that . Okay , I achieved that . It enriches you in different ways .

And then maybe also , as I told you about the friends that I have here and you know the bonds that you could create . That's also a part of your learning process in you know . And then later you're like , okay , I was able to achieve that , so that's that's you feel . You feel pretty confident that , okay , if I could work on this thing .

For example , here in spain we have the one of the not so good processes in the public offices , so it's like we're famous for that . If I have the original copy , so they would want me to have a photocopy and then a double photocopy , so that that could be quite

frustrating in the public offices here . So this used to happen to us in the beginning when , you know , we were trying to , um , get into the hospital system and things like that and the social security system . So now when I think about that , sometimes I laugh it off .

I'm like , okay , it was frustrating , but then , okay , it happened , and then I learned something about how people are and probably I had this perception that people were that way back home , but then everybody in the world is probably the same .

Yeah , so you kind of see that you know you not only learn things about the new place where you are , but you've realized that , in the grand scheme of things , we're really all the same and we have the same challenges and we're navigating the same hurdles , dealing with some of the same frustrations , and so , yeah , it makes you feel like the world is a much

more relatable place than we sometimes perceive it to be . Yeah , love that , um . So what final word would you like to leave with our audience of scholarly mamas ?

Maybe your spouse is not willing enough and they're not maybe cooperative enough sometimes . So I mean if you move , then probably they are cooperative enough , but then they could also have some disappointments when they move abroad . So you know , so it could be challenging , but at the end of the day , everything is possible .

So if it's , if it's in your head , if it's in your heart , if , if , if you really really really want to do it and if you want to achieve that certain goal . It could be phd , it could be your master's , it could be . It could not be related to any degree .

It could be that you want to pursue a new job in a new country because maybe you want to move out of your country because of anything . It could be that there are financial circumstances , problems in your country . You want to move abroad or something . Everything is possible .

You need to be determined and you need to , but in that process you need to take care of your mental health . That is something I would really recommend that first you need to take care of your own self and you should be ambitious , but you also should be realistic to you know , realize those challenges , and only then you can overcome them .

So just don't lose hope at any point in time . Of course , there will be days you need to take up your frustration . You need to be in the mom guilt as well , that , ok , what did I do to my kids ? It would have been better if they were being raised back home , probably with their grandparents , parents .

That's also an enriching experience , because I mean now when I see that I go to my home country and my daughter is with my parents , so she's learning different things . But apart from learning from the grandparents , she also has the world view to learn from . So it's enriching in so many ways . So if you want to do it , trust me you can do it .

So nothing can stop you . You just need to have , you just need to identify your proper support system . That could be that , that is for sure your husband , your partner , your boyfriend , your supervisors in the and the university itself . And also it's very important that you choose a place that supports the system as well .

I was lucky enough that my university they never had this objection that , okay , why am I leaving at 4.30 ? Because I know places that have this objection that why are you leaving so early ? And they were flexible enough that if my kid is sick , because when you send them to daycares and everything you know , the first year is with a lot of oh yes .

They were supportive enough that even at that time , I could work from home . I had that flexibility , to you know . But so , all in all , it's within you and you need to identify and you need to have the right , and you need to have the right and you need to choose the right support system to make it happen .

So , and then when you do that , you are going to reflect back and you'll be like , oh , I actually did that . So I thought I couldn't , but I'm brave enough to do that , yeah .

So , because I know that people want to hear more , they'll want to know more about what you do . You know where you are at the moment now , post PhD so where can our mamas find you online if they want to follow your journey ?

It felt like that I could share my journey with other PhD students and moms and also have an insight of how they are navigating things and , of course , also the fun part of it that you could share your memes and you know your relatable experiences so you don't feel alone , so they can easily find me there and they can come talk to me about any concerns and

we can be in touch and we can enrich each other to our experiences , to our personal professional goals and experiences , and we could help each other and we could support each other in various ways . I would say brilliant .

I hope you've enjoyed the episode and if you did and you want in on this movement , please head over to mrsmummyphdcom or scholarlymamascom . If you want to do your PhD well , without sacrificing yourself or those you love dearest , then you need your hands on my free training called the PhD with Purpose webinar .

When you join us inside Scholarly Mama's Explore , you'll get access to this free training and so much more . Remember , mama , these are our journeys of becoming