Music. Welcome to Mr. and Mrs. Therapy, the podcast that empowers you to transform life's challenges into opportunities for personal growth and healthier relationships. We're your hosts, Tim and Ruth Olson, licensed marriage and family therapists and trauma experts. As experienced therapists with backgrounds in addressing trauma and mental health disorders, we believe there is hope and there certainly is healing.
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Hey everyone, welcome back to Mr. and Mrs. Therapy podcast. We're so glad that you're here with us today. So we have been doing a series on finances, which isn't the typical holiday or New Year's podcast that most people want to be listening to. But we're doing it because finances can be such a stressor, especially around holidays, because there is a higher level of spending that people usually are spending on gifts and having gatherings.
And so we really want to address it because it is a stressor in relationships around this time. And so in the next couple episodes, what we're going to be addressing is specifically identifying unhealthy financial patterns. And we're going to be looking at three different patterns. And that's codependent money dynamics, emotional spending or withholding, and financial infidelity. And so not just around the holidays, but in general, money can be one of the biggest stressors in a relationship.
A lot of arguments, anxieties, resentments can all be traced to how we handle or even how we avoid handling finances. But recognizing these unhealthy patterns is really the first step to being able to change them. So as we break down what each pattern looks like, we're also going to talk about why it happens and give you some take-home strategies to help address or prevent these issues.
And in today's episode, we're specifically going to start with the first one, which is codependent money dynamics. And in the next episodes, we'll cover the other two, emotional spending and withholding and financial infidelity. So let's jump into today's episode. So the first one we're going to start with is codependent money dynamics.
And so for codependency, what that's going to look like is one partner is going to be constantly rescuing the other one financially or feeling responsible for the other person's well-being. You could see that in couples where one person constantly foots the bill or is covering rent or utility bills or debt, or always has to be in control of the finances in order to keep the other person out of trouble.
And this can come from a sense or feeling that the relationship will crumble or their spouse will stop loving them if they're not taking care of all of these difficult tasks. And along with this, emotional manipulation is something that can come to play here as well. And so you might hear statements like, If you really loved me, you'd pay off my credit card. or I'll only feel secure if you promise to cover all my expenses or even something like if you really loved me you'd let me buy this.
And so the one partner is using that as a manipulation tool to get what they want, and they know they can pressure the other person where it's just a purchase that this other person wants, but then they attach or tie the sense of love or caring in the relationship to allowing the other person to become financially irresponsible. Right. And I think that does create a cycle or a pattern where the person who is usually on the receiving end can kind of develop a sense of entitlement.
Or maybe even on the other end, they start to feel guilty and then they avoid the topic where then it makes it hard to talk honestly about finances. And there's fear on both sides. So the giver's fear is if I don't rescue them or if I don't give them this, then I'm going to lose their love. And maybe the receiver's fear is being called out on it and they're afraid they'll start to be restricted.
And I say that as we're talking through this, there's a lot of different financial setups that happen. I think when we went into our marriage, we just went into it with a thought about two become one. And so everything that we bring to the relationship, we're coming together. And so everything we have is shared. Our bank accounts, our debts, assets, anything, they are joint and they're together.
And I think that's one of the things that really meant a lot to me was even before we were married, when we were engaged, Tim had that stance because I came into the relationship with a lot of debt. I didn't handle my finances right. And Tim really came into it a lot more responsible. He had planned for the future and he had planned for having a wedding, which I think is a very unique thing for a guy to do even before they know who they're going to marry, even before they've met someone.
He started planning to save for it. And so when I came in and I was talking about my debt and how guilty I felt for it, the stress that I had to try and figure out how to pay it off, and he really sat me down and took my hands and just said, look, your debt is my debt. We're in this together. And that was a huge weight off my shoulders.
But even more than that, I felt so emotionally grateful and thankful, not just for the finances part of it, but the view that he had and the perspective he had on how we were going to handle life together moving forward. And I think that definitely could be a difficult spot, right? So for you, right, you came in with the debt and you were worried about that. But I was also very controlled and measured with my finances.
And so I remember when we were combining accounts, that was an uncomfortable point for me where I was like, ooh, I've had complete and total control over this stuff. And now all of a sudden, I'm not going to have complete and total control. I'm going to have to give my soon-to-be wife, because we combined our accounts before we actually got married.
I'm gonna have to give her access and control and she's gonna have influence and I'm also not going to be able to make her stop doing things right we're coming together and I very vividly remember the moment where I was like oh man this makes me uncomfortable because I have to trust her with this and it sounds kind of funny because we're planning on getting married but it's like that was a moment that was real to me where it's like
oh this is a person I'm getting married to I am going to have to trust her. And this is scary. And so that's where we're at. And that's kind of our view on going into marriage together. But we're also very aware, and we've seen it a lot of times in counseling and even in our own personal life, where people have separate accounts and they're paying rent from one account and the other person will take care of the other bills or where one person will take care of everything.
And then the other person has to just make sure that they figure out their own spending money. So as we talked through this, we know that there are different situations going into it. And this may play out differently in your own relationship. But I know that there was definitely a sense of comfort knowing that Tim had my back on everything, but also a sense of responsibility that he took on this debt of mine.
And he never made me feel guilty or never made me pay, in a sense, for the decisions that I had made in the past, but that I really was responsible for not just my well-being, but his as well. And making sure that I didn't view it as, oh, man, great, he's going to pay off my debt. Now I can just continue the way it was going.
So there's definitely a sense of responsibility as well. And again, I think this is important to note, and maybe I said this in a previous episode, but I think a lot of times couples do believe if we have separate bank accounts, then it's going to cause us not to have financial conflict. But that's just totally not true.
It happens all the time. As a matter of fact, it was funny, I was recounting that sentiment to a couple, and I didn't know if they had financial joint accounts or separate accounts. But when I said that, they kind of looked at each other in smirk. And then later on, they shared, yeah, they have separate accounts, but they still have financial conflict. So as we've talked about the codependent money dynamics, this really can apply to either situation, right?
Recognizing the pattern that's happening is crucial. Because if you're the rescuer and you're feeling like, man, I'm always bailing them out. Or I need to be the responsible one because they're not. And then if you're on the receiving end asking, do I rely on my partner so much that I haven't even learned basic money management skills? Or I haven't learned that I need to restrict? Or do I see that my partner is always stressed about finances and I'm not taking on a part of it?
And I don't mean taking on a part of it, meaning if you have decided to be a one income household, not are you contributing. But even if you're not bringing in finances, there's still a level of responsibility in budgeting and making sure that you're being a good steward of the money and the finances. And so whether you have joint accounts or you're separate, this idea of where does that responsibility lie? Is it always on Tim?
Is there this unhealthy pattern happening in our relationship? Or am I supporting him? Am I coming alongside him and seeing how can I serve Tim in the process?
Because I think in our marriage he really does feel the weight of the head of the household leading our family in a lot of different areas but especially in finances and I want to make sure that I'm supporting him through that and not making it more difficult for him but also looking at the dynamics of the spender saver I have a tendency to be the spender and he has a tendency to be the saver but that doesn't mean that's our only roles I also need to take on the role of helping us save and
helping us meet our goals. And it's beneficial for him as well to sometimes cut loose and have a little fun with money. Right. Feel the freedom of spending and be able to reap the benefits and experience the fruit of his labor. So let's talk about a couple of tips breaking free from the cycle of codependency. So the first thing to know is that you want to have clear boundaries. What are the expectations with finances?
What are the expectations behind rescuing, maybe agreeing to contribute to shared bills in a proportion, or a certain level of spending that is appropriate? Or even setting up, hey, if we're going to spend over X dollars, we need to check in with our partner to see how things are going. Now, some people may hear that stuff and they may feel like, man, that feels so restrictive.
But one of the things I always tell my clients is that's a part of being in a relationship you have two different people and they may have two different views you have to come together and agree what's appropriate or not appropriate what's helpful what's not helpful and so when you agree to be in a relationship you don't agree that you can just do whatever you want whenever you want you agree that we are now a partnership and we're going to work on being on the same page and work on
trying to achieve shared goals and those kinds of things and so if when you're hearing this and you're thinking boundaries and restrictions, and it makes you uncomfortable or upset, one of the things to know is that a lot of times these restrictions feel a lot worse in theory than they actually are in application. And when you start applying them, a lot of the times when you start living more financially healthy, you actually end up with more freedoms down the line.
And then they are freedoms that don't come with any modicum of guilt because it's not that you've been secretly spending or hiding spending. It's a, oh no, we've agreed. This is now an appropriate great amount. I am free to spend this money because we've talked about it. I'm not hiding or shifting stuff around to try to allow myself this freedom that I haven't quite earned yet. And so there is a great benefit to it, but it will feel uncomfortable at the beginning.
But applying those boundaries is really one of the first steps towards being able to move out of this codependent financial relationship.
Another thing is open communication. So talking about the budget, expectations, underlying fears or concerns about that and one of the things is too is when we're having open communication it's not necessarily going to solve all the problems a part of it is just going through okay we've set up these new boundaries we're going to talk about how those new boundaries make us feel but also we have to live through and experience those
boundaries first because like i said earlier a lot of our fears about how restrictive it may feel may end up not being nearly as bad as you initially anticipate them and so you jump in and you start experiencing the new boundaries. And then when we have another financial discussion, if it feels hyper restrictive or very uncomfortable, you can have a conversation about that again, where, okay, maybe we need to like open up the finances a little bit more.
Maybe we start a little too gung ho on this, but being able to regularly talk about that is a very important factor. The next thing that's also important too is sometimes this topic can be too much of a hot button issue, meaning that like every time we talk about finances, as soon as bringing up the idea of a dollar comes up, it's like, boom, we are fighting my cats and dogs.
And if that's the case, you might really want to consider therapy and sitting down with somebody who's going to help you walk through it and then also be able to give you a little bit more of a neutral, unbiased eye on the situation.
And the other thing too is this is also important to consider is that you may also have very deep emotional ties and trauma that even though you might agree and acknowledge logically, I should be changing what I'm doing with finances, but you just cannot force yourself to do it, then you may need some EMDR to help you break that bond.
Otherwise, you're going to constantly be struggling with that and it's going to keep coming up whenever you stop very intently paying attention to what you're doing with the finances.
Or like I said, earlier if you're just not able to make yourself stop you may want to consider that and ruth and i we have a program called coaching with truth and if you're interested if you want to learn a little bit more we have a link in the description below or you can also just set up an appointment all right guys thank you so much for listening and remember your mind is a powerful thing.
Thank you so much for tuning in to this episode of mr and mrs therapy We hope that you enjoyed today's episode and found it helpful. If so, would you take 30 seconds and share it with a friend? Also, we'd love for you to leave us a review on Apple Podcast. It lights us up to know that this podcast is helping you. If you have any questions or a topic you'd like discussed in future episodes, visit our Facebook group. Just click the link in the description below.
Although we are mental health providers, this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to provide diagnosis or treatment. If you are struggling with persistent mental health issues, chronic marital issues, or feeling hopeless or suicidal, you are not alone. Help is available. Please seek professional help or call the National Suicide Hotline at 988. Thank you again for joining us on Mr. and Mrs. Therapy. Remember, there's always hope and there's always help. Music.