Todd Garner on Arthur

to Todd Garner. Todd is the name you may not know, but if you start looking at his IMDb pay g will be a little intimidated because Todd is a movie producer and he has his fingerprints on a lot of big movies. He was the i think co president of production at Disney for ten years, and just a freelance producer for many many years I think after that, and before that, he's been doing it for a couple of decades.

Movies like thirteen going on thirty and Triple X and the The Mall Cop series, which we have a fun little talk about, and h boy, you know, once we kind of got into the discussion, I realized just how many movies Todd has worked on. It's great and we had never met before, but he was in town working on a movie. He is the stuff you should know and movie crush listener, and he reached out just to say hi, and I said, let's get you in the studio.

Turns out Todd is a great guy and he picked a great movie, one of my favorite all time comedies, the movie from One starring Dudley Moore and Liza Minnelli and Sir John giel Good. Arthur, such a great film and we really had a great talk about it. So without any further delay, here we go with the super cool,

super nice my new pal Todd Garner on Arthur. I'm sitting here in person for the first time in sixteen months with somebody with a human and this is Todd Garner, everyone movie producer of Boy, Black Hawk Down, Anger, Management thirteen going on thirty, one of my all time guilty pleasures. Great. I love that funny story about that. I can't wait to hear it. Triple X, the new Mortal Kombat movie, many many, many more films, all very big studio films,

and you're I think only my second producer. I had Merril Poster in which is a lot of fun and uh, I'd love to talk a little bit about producing, because I think there's such And by the way, you're you're very sneaky because I didn't know you had a podcast. You didn't even tell me that until I found it yesterday called the producer's guy, Todd Garner in Hollywood's Elite, which is great. I listened to the Cassiean l how do you say It Always? Episode this morning and the

Walter Hill episode, which is just fantastic. His voice is just incredible, oh man, And I was glad to hear you like gushing. And I was like, all right, I don't feel bad because when I have people on here I love. I'm very sick of fantic too, and I'm just like, you're the best, and I love everything you've done. And it's like breaks all the rules of quote unquote interviewing. But you were all over Walter Hill. Yeah. I loved it. Yeah, I gush over. I mean I started it because this

very question, like what does the producer do? Yeah, and obviously the news is not great for producers really, yeah, and that was kind of one of the reasons behind it, right, Yeah, I mean there was there was numerous reasons that was. One is to clear up misconceptions about what producers do, the real producers that you know, not the twenty five year old guys that are at bars passing out you know, cards, because that's one side of it. And then the Harvey

Wine scenes clearly the other side of it. Yeah, it's the working producers that make a make a living and really love what they do in our on set and do the work. And then and then weirdly, here in Atlanta, I was shooting a movie and uh, Neil Maritz, who has done all The Fast and the Furious is and my other friend Marty Bowen, who has done um a

ton of movies, including the Twilight series. Uh, we were all sitting around having a beer and and and you know, I heard complaining like, oh man, the business is over, like we're screwed, we're dinosaurs. And I realized I had four movies shooting, Marty had five, and numerits like has was doing Passengers with Chris Pett and Lawrence as well

as having The Fast. Like, guys, if if we're if we're putting that rhetoric out there that the business is over, what chance does any students have because because you know, most of the entertainment press dines in in and you know, doom saying because there's so much change right now in the business, and in terms of the way that the business is so rapidly changing, in terms of it's it's all content now in quotes and yeah, and and and I think that just scares the ship out of people

with people don't understand it. But then you really look at the pure numbers of it. When you know, when Netflix is spending a billion dollars in content, and that was that was, you know, the big shark in the water. Everybody was terrified that was going to end the movie business and the theatrical going experiences over and then the pandemic hits, and and I just really wanted to counteract that in the way you're saying the sycophanic gushing. I

really am in a positive person about the business. I've been doing this for thirty years, and I you know, I don't have a paycheck. I only get paid if a movie gets made. So I should probably be the

most fearful negative person right out there. And I just couldn't do it because I remember being a young person coming up and wanting to be in the business and reading and studying the business and hearing the same doom bullshit then and so as a history of the movie business and really reading a ton and a ton of history about it, you just realize it's the same stuff. You know. And when when television started, movie businesses over. In fact, we even going back sound it's over. Nobody

wants to hear actors talk. And then from color like color is too it's too real. Nope, that's it. Over television for sure, it's going to kill them. It's gonna end it. And not only did it not kill the movie business, you could actually promote your movies on the television and sell them to television. And then vhs, Oh boy, that's it, right, you're just gonna record that's an in DVD. Oh god, pirating like it looks as good as the movie Pirating DVD. There, that's it. And it just never happens.

It's just like the little engine that could. And so I just wanted to say to anybody who was interested in the movie business, and for sure young people, that it's not just go do it, follow your dream. I don't want to talk to anybody out of their dream. And it's a hard business for sure, but I just want It's always been hard, yeah, and I want to encourage people and if I can do it, anybody again. What was your start Like you talked about reading about

the business and wanting to get into it. What what were you doing. I started in theater and high school. Originally I wanted to be an architect, and then I got into a drafting class and I was like, this sucks too much. I can't do this. It's just straight lines and protractors, really nerdy people with me. And then my buddy said, you gotta come try this improv class in in in theater and it was just awesome. I could run around and be funny and stupid, great looking

girls in the theater department. Was so much better than drafting, and I just fell in love with it. And so at first kind of thought, well, maybe I'll be a director. I don't know, maybe a be a stand up comedian. I don't know, I'll figure this out. What year was this. I graduated my school and eighty three, Okay. I was in the San Fernando Valley and none of my entire families in the business. Nobody knew anything about the In fact, my father stilt to this day, we'll send me an

article like, great article I'm producing. I'm like, okay, he says, and you know, just doesn't still waiting for the other, you know, my finally, my I have a degree in economics and film from Occidental College and he's still waiting for that econ degree to kick in. I lived in the ego rog yeah, yeah, yeah, and so uh then I then I thought maybe would be a producer, but I didn't know anything about producing. So you know, you go and you see movies and you read the books

and about special effects. And I made some student films in high school and then I went talk to Old College, which didn't have any film classes at all. But I got an internship. Back in the day when the industrial video was huge, they were spending so much money on because it's like this new thing where you could like teach people through video, right, So I got a job at Pacific bell Um as an intern in their in

their in their you know, instructional video department. And then I learned how to edit, and so I really became an editor first. So I edited. We're editing out one inch and it was Ampex and Ampex had a system that was called the Ampex A system which is just base sleep meant Ampex Computerized editing, which is really a precursor to UM all of the new you know, software based systems and so not that many old timers wanted to learn. It Back in the day was all CMX.

It had thousands of buttons that said, you know, like you know, dissolve right cut. This was like you had you was worked like a computer. And so I I, you know, I worked for Playboy, I worked for did cut music videos, I cut it, worked for the Olympics for so but and then I realized I'm just sort of getting further away from what I really want to do was produce, and I quit and went to work at Wells Fargo Bank, you know, because I thought maybe

I'll go to business school. And then insanely, like the only person of my father's ever met in the movie in the movie Business, he was playing golf with this guy who worked at Paramount Television, and and my background seemed like I had wanted this job in my whole life,

because I had a degree in economics. I worked in production and I got a job on their Senior Hall show as his as his Huntain at Paramount So I was on the lot and that really showed you, Oh my god, there's a movie and my deals now at Paramounts in my office is on the lot. Sounds amazing. And I was there and you know, played, you know, lunch, you'd go play basketball and Jason Bateman would be there. I realized that was it was done. And but I did also realize I didn't know how to read a script.

So I went do you used to like extension? And took a class from Bob Greenblad, who was was the chairman of NBC and then was the chairman of Warner Brothers. He was us a story editor at Lorimer at the time and taught me how to read a script. And then from there I got a job as an assistant in UH at Columbia Pictures, and then I got my job at Disney, and I was at Disney for ten years, and I became co president production after ten years. It's

a long road, man, that's not It's so easy. Yeah, And and that's the other thing I tell people, you know, if ever I'm like speaking in classes or whatever, it doesn't matter. Man. The road is never straight right ever, you know, and especially now with podcasts like your podcast and technology and you can get anything on the web now and you can you can shoot a movie on your phone. Yeah, I had to use Super eight such a pain in the app and uh so there's just

the barrier to entry is almost non existent. Now, what kind of producer are you? Like? What is your what is your job entail day to day, movie to movie. Yeah, so working in the studio system for you know, over ten years, I really got an edge of fast education and what makes a good producer. Um So I trained at the feet of Jerry Bruckheimer and Adam Sandler and guys like that that go to the set every day. Are there do the work? Um and and are the

captains of the ship? You know? And then and then I also saw the managers that aren't producers and the hangers on that aren't pricers, and the people that you know, gave a little dough, they get a producer credit. I knew the difference, and I really wanted to be the former, right, beat on the ground, beat on the ground. Yeah, it's funny.

Rob wriggle Um who who who have done a couple of things with he he he was in the Marines and he talks about producing like taking the beach right, and you take the beach of foot at a time, you know. And so if you're not there every day and sitting there physically, then you don't have a voice.

You really don't. I mean, you can get a phone call from your in your office in Los Angeles, and you can make your best guests, but unless you're there to see the intricacies of why this decision happened, you can't really do it. So that's the kind of producer I wanted to be. Yeah and um and you know, and also just the kind of producer that was agnostic

in terms of genre. I've done a ton of comedies because I love them, yeah, um, and I grew up with them, which is what we're gonna talk about today, Like you know, Stripes and Arthur and Raising Arizona and you know, all these movies that a lot of the Howard Hawks stuff. These are movies that I grew up with and completely fell in love with. So I have an affinity for the genre, and I love the people

that make those movies. But I also wanted you know, I worked on No Brother, Where Arn't Tho, I worked on Love, I worked on you know, I worked on ed Wood and I worked on a lot of all those movies on the I done no brother yet actually yeah yeah, and uh and you know I love those movies. Um not not my my biggest strength. There's that's a you know, it's a singular voice. And the people that

produce those movies, you know, mostly are writer producers. But but the people that producers movies are really main working to give that person their voice work to h I mean, and and I think I was better suited as an executive to work in that job, to be able to just you know, I when when the Coen Brothers, who I'm madly in love with, came in to pitch me O brother, they basically just said it's white trash Home is Odyssey, And I said, right done, I got it.

I'm in like, say no more. I mean, they can do whatever they want, though, right they Weirdly, what's funny is at that time because that was a touchdown picture at the time, you know, because Disney had bought Mirror Max and uh, Harvey was going through crazy transition. Now it's all now everybody knows why insane person, But people like you know, there were there are certain people that were like, let's try different distributors, and Oh Brother was

a tough one for them because it wasn't cheap. And my boss Joe Roth at the time, he loves filmmakers so much that you know, Edward was a huge swing. I mean, that's black and Wood movie but someone no one knew about um, oh Brother, um and punch Unk love those kind of movies. He was just willing to just just go ahead and give them the resources that

they need to make make them. And and a lot of those people that work in in in that kind of independent distribution, as you heard from the Cassium podast, they're really counting to nickels and dimes. You know when you used to go into those old offices at Merrimax in New York, they were just like final cabinets and you know it was just like the most bare bones. Yeah, and so they wanted to save every penny um and and we were, you know, we were really filmmaker friendly

at that time. You know, you said something a second ago and just then filmmaker friendly and Joe Roth love filmmakers. You also hear stories about directors who hate actors, producers who hate writers, or filmmakers like, what is that all about? Well, have you ever built a house or been in any sort of construction, Not personally, but we renovated our house a couple few years. Yeah, I mean generally it's gonna

go wrong. Yeah, I mean, it's always just always happens, you know, the general rule is going to cost twice as much, twice as long. And when you're in that pause, I think so much of it is is subjective in terms of like, well, I like my house to look like this, I like my walls to look like I like this kind of fixtures, And and perhaps the contractor or the designer is like, do you really want that concrete floor with the you know, you know Victorian outside. Yeah,

that's why I want you. That's what I wanted, and so you So that's the kind of way the making a movie is right, because everybody has the movie in their head when they come in. Everybody, I don't care if you're the sound guy. You know, I can't tell you how many times I've been on a set and anybody comes in this is not the way I saw that set, because they're all reading the script, not the way I saw this at all. And and and I think that there's a there's a inherent in human beings,

just an inherent insecurity. And so the insecurity is this is what I thought, And your insecurity lead you to go this is the way it should be. And um, I've done it so long. I know that feeling. I have it every day on the set where you go, that's not the way I said, Right, you have to just kind of go, okay, but you know this will this will be fine, you know, unless it's not. Though, how do you draw that distinction if your gut? Your gut is really pretty telling. Jim Brooks um had on

his has on his monitor when he any films. And I learned this from Nancy Myers. She just has gut on her monitor and she she says she got that from Jim Brooks. And it's just this feeling you get when so I'll give you a perfect example. There's a scene in this movie and I was watching it and I had an idea and a lot was going on. We were late rain, you know, are they shooting in Atlanta? Really fun with the lightning every every day, So like a lot going on, Like it doesn't matter, it's gonna

be fine. Is this what you're working on now. Yeah, moo working on a movie right now called Senior Year with Rebel Wilson and a wonderful filmmaker by the name of Alex Hardcastle who's worked in television. This is his first feature. And so you know, I'm very aware that, you know, I have a lot of opinions, and I'm going to try to do my best to help him make the best movie he can know and and Rebel to make the best I did isn't romantic with her

as well. And so I had this idea, and I should probably say this idea, but I already know if I go say this idea, it's going to require a prop and everybody's going to be like, really, I mean and I and I go, I'll be fine. And I went to sleep, and I woke up next morning. I don't know, fuck it, I'm I should have said something. And I went to the director and I go, wouldn't have been better if the scene would have had this

thing in it? And he goes, oh my god, I wish you would have said that, because even like thematically it's it's it would have worked better. And so we're going to reshoot it, you know, Yeah, and it's not that it was wrong. It's just that there was a better idea, and a better idea that's not it's low impact enough because it's a tiny little moment and it'll be very easy to read. So you do the math and see the math, and you go, it's not going to be He's not going to disrupt the whole world.

But there are times when you know, if something look hopefully again, boots on the ground right, If you're a good producer, you've been on the tech scouts, you're not walking into a building going wait a minute, I didn't this is This isn't a church. We're supposed to be in a you know, in a school. What the hell is happening? You know, like, well, dude, you should have been on the scout, the four scouts. We did, so at some point you have to be in on it

early enough. And inevitably is always going to be things. It's a visual medium, so it's always gonna be things where a joke or or a scene or or a character description is very well written, but visually it's impossible to get what you read right. It's either it's just too complicated, it's the audience won't it's not clean. So there's a lot of times where something's written and it's great and you see it on its feet you're like, this isn't this isn't working the way we thought, and

then you just have to adjust um. And that's and and so you know, a good producer will help the person make their movie and and support them and be and in a lot give them all the tools to be the best they can be, to to allow them

to just throw the ball. Now with the first time filmmaker, is that something you enjoy or is this I've I gotta say I've never done the math, so this is I'm just gonna say this, and it's probably total bullshit, but I feel like I've worked with more first time directors than anybody really well, because when I was doing when I was working with Jerry Bruckheimer, when I when I was at Disney, I worked on pretty much every movie from with Jerry, from Crimson Tied through Pirates of

the Caribbean, that whole runny he had at Disney. I was there those little movies. Yeah, and he loves work. He loved working with quote unquote first time directors because

most of the time they were commercial directors. So he started with Ridley and Scott and Tony Scott, Michael Bay and all these guys and really fell in love with them because you know, those guys have probably shot more film than anybody, you know, because they're just and they're trying different lenses and they know how to be economical

was shot. So it really worked really well for the Bruckheimer Um and uh and so I worked with a lot of film first time filmmakers there, and comedy generally inspires a lot of first timers, like even Arthur Steve Gordon was the first time filmmaker, right, And it generally you get a lot of guys coming from TV or writers that break. So my last movie I did was called Vacation Friends with John Cena and Rayl Howry. Clay Tarver was the first time filmmaker, but he had run

Silicon Valley. He was a writer that you know went on to run that show. Oh yeah. So it's like they're not like first time in the sense that they just like decided I was a farmer now, right. They have tons of experience, but not tons of experience, um for you know, maintaining a storyline for two hours, which is which is a different skill than even working in television.

What about have you ever had like a literally like a fresh out of film school experience with someone or um, not that I can recall off top of my head. I don't think so, but um Yeah, generally those those filmmakers generally start in the independent world. You don't really get a lot of people come around a film school that go right into a big studio movie. They usually that is usually reserve for a cast in. And those guys that will go raise the money a couple million

bucks for somebody to do that. Yeah, And I imagine, especially with the first time ors, it's it goes both ways. Like you have to instill confidence in them so that they believe in themselves. But for someone like you that's boots on the ground, they probably have a lot of confidence in you. You're not one of those producers that sweeps in there firing off notes and ideas, doesn't know

what the fun is going on. Yeah. I feel like a really good producers like Homeland Security, if no explosions happened, you've done your job. Unfortunately, you'll never know, right, And so I always try to stay a mile ahead of everybody so that there's no it's always a soft place to land. You're not like going, what the hell is happening? So you're clearing the path out and the machete and exactly right. And and especially actors, I just want to

make sure they're comfortable. You know. Look, it's it's it's a it's a lot. It's a lot to ask somebody to leave their home for months at a time. It's a lot to ask somebody to be vulnerable enough to put themselves on a screen that's a hundred feet wide and sixty ft tall. Um. It's a lot to get them to be emotional, and it's it's a lot to be an actor. And so I really just want to make sure it's they're gonna have the best experience they've ever had on a movie. They're gonna be well taken

care of, well fed, well rested. They're gonna be comfortable, They're not going to be dealing with a bunch of bullshit. And just then you're just free. It's like being a pitching coach, right, just free to let the guy throw the ball as fast as hard as you can. So interesting to hear you talk about it. I don't I don't think a lot of people would say that they would expect a producer like one of the more important qualities to be compassion and empathy. I know. That's why

I want to do that part of it. If you're good, that's why I want to do my podcast. I mean the people that I've got a hundred and eighty hours. If anybody wants to learn how to be a producer of just the best in the business, everybody, and I can recommend it. I listened to those two episodes this morning. It's great, Yeah, anybody I can think of, and and people at first making fun of me, It's like, oh, great, Todd, you just talking to your friends for an hour, and

then as it went along, it's true. They're all my you know, all associates, if not friends. And it was deliberate that way because I wanted people to be intimate and people to not just give me the route. Yeah, you know, you go to the set that to really talk about what inspired them and how they got into the business and how they think about movies and how they think about the nuts and bolts of the business, because it is you know, I was in Australia for

five months shooting Mortal Kombat. It was hard. I quite enjoyed that movie. That's how we met. Well, this is the greatest thing is I admire you so much and I and I hear you talk about movies, and I generally agree with everything you say. And you have a pretty high browed taste. And so when you as soon as you guys started talking about video games, and I was like ship and then it was like you went Mortal Combat, like, oh god, I know it's coming. I

just you know, because it's just that thing. You go, oh please please, and you go you've seen the Mortal Kombat, but we know, like, oh god, no it was and I'm like, oh, thank god, thank you. I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a lot of fune. It looked great. There was enough, I mean they captured the video game stuff. That was enough there for the video game fans in the Easter eggs to really get into. And you can talk about that for hours. It was a tough one.

I mean it's a really tough but yeah, but being in Australia for five months away from it, you know, half a world away from your family where it was. Yeah, it was in Adelaide, Australia, Okay, I have empathy for everybody because I'm doing it again, you know, and I have I have a wife and two kids, and I know what it's like to be away for from your family and to be lonely and to be sad. And

that's not indicative for good comedy. So unless everybody's feeling um supported and taking care of it's hard to get good stuff out of people, right And I you know, and and I every movie, I go, well, I've seen it all now, you know. So most of the time, if something happens to somebody emotionally or they're going through something, I can say I've seen it before and help them

because you have to be unflappable. Yeah. Yeah, you can't be the one that's freaking out, or if you do, you go into a separate room and do it alone. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. A lot of a lot of just being by myself and my condo silently freaking out. But yeah, um, you know, for sure, you don't want to look at the fireman and have him going, I don't know what is happening, where's the hose? You don't

want it. You want the guy to go like, let's go, even if he's freaking out and so um again going back and reading like a lot of Hollywood history and reading about those old timers and those guys that really did it, they're just those guys, you know, they're just they're just the guys that just did nothing bother him. Yeah. You know the guy who you know, Bob, Bob Greenhead who produced Arthur. He produced all the Woody Allen movies. Really he's a New York guy. They had their offices

in New York. You know, they would double bark thing be shot in New York in the eighties. Many those guys were just the guys I really admire in terms of just that sort of um like, yeah, just taking the beach. Yeah, that military idea, that's cool. Yeah. I want to hear your thirteen going I'm thirty story. Okay, so just this there's a couple, there's a bunch of them, but but not about thirteen thirty. There's always that moment where again, this is what happened with you and I

Immortal Kombat. There's that moment where you know, you go your movie movie prod, Yeah, what have you done right? And you go, oh boy, here we go, because you know it's gonna be, What do you let when you do that? What's your go to? What are your first three movies? Your name of your own? It just depends in the person. If I would have met you would have been like, you know, I did Black Down, Punch Glove, and I did it over there? Arn't that? What else?

Paul Lark? You know? And then but it's not so anyway, So uh, A couple of times it's happened where you just like one time I was this is not at I'll tell the thirteenth story real quick. But once time I was on a plane and they said, oh, it's gonna be this movie. I want to say, what the movie is it? It's gonna be this movie. It's it's a comedy, And like, oh boy, okay, I've already seen it. So I put my headphones on and my glasses is

when they used to have a projected the main screen. Yeah, and this dude, this dude next to me was laughing so hard, sixt year old man. And I'm like in my head, going, this movie is not I know that movie is not that fucking funny. Like, what the hell is this guy? He's being annoying, He's he mocking the movie this guy. I want to kill this guy. And I took my things off and it was maall cop and I went, I love this guy. I'm gonna enjoy this.

So it's like, it's just this weird, tenuous thing that my ego was, like so fragile, right, So thirteen and thirty is this is a it's a little bit of a personal story. So, um, my daughter, my wife and I lost a baby at birth, which is why I

love Settle in This Travel so much. We told you, I told you i'd like that, love that movie because and um, one of the things was, you know, as we were going through this, we were in the hospital for a couple of days, and it happened to be New Year's Day, and Comedy Central does this thing on New Years Day where they put these movies up, comedies, and you know, for briefly, like an hour or so, my wife would be laughing and we both kind of

forget where we're at. And it's just very much about like Sullivan's Travels when the guys are in jail watching um, the Three Stooges. And so I just love to make comedies. And I don't feel bad about making comedies. I think I can give people joy it. It's very helpful. So my daughter Molly, who's thirteen, she was being born and you know, we had a high risk doctor and it's very emotional and scared shitless and I'm just you know, crying and just praying everything's gonna be okay, and this

nurse leans in and goes. I just have to say, is my favorite movie. Thank you. I was like, this is happening right now. Okay, it's better than you hating it. Yeah, that was a really good movie. And it's one of my favorite music cues of any movie because I'm a billy Joel fan. Yeah, and that Vienna queue At so yeah, I mean and identified with that kids, So I think, you know, the younger version, and sure, I mean that.

You know, I love that. That's why, isn't it. I have a few I have this woman that I've worked with a few on a few movies named Gena Matthews. We did that movie thirteen thirty. We did What Women Want Together, We did Asn't a Romantic Together. We did this other movie called All My Life Together. And so I love making those movies because and it's funny and

I was thinking thinking about this the other day. I have a son who's twenty, and you know, when I when he was growing up, I was making Triple X, Black, Go Down and dude movies and action movies. And and my daughter now like even this movie in thirteen thirty and these and isn't a romantic I always try to like sneak in a little sin in there, um you know about in the film itself, just the theme of it,

like isn't it romantic? Really is ultimately about loving yourself and not being caught up in the romantic comedy tropes. And and in this movie I'm making right now called Senior Years that way too. It's like, you don't need anybody to be successful. You just have to kind of do it yourself and pull yourself up by the bootstraps and and work, work hard, and and thirteen and thirty

was the same thing. It was like, don't try to go for popularity, don't try to go for the things that are vacuous, and ye shallow, be be a real person. And then I tell my daughter all the time, like, especially for for for teenage girls, you don't need everybody to like you, right if you have to one or two really good friends You're fine because tantas are the only people that are going to be in your life later on life. You're not gonna have thirty friends, you know,

pack of people. So that's I always trying to like sneak a little aspirin in the apple sauce that way you're a good guy producer. I'm trying. Yeah, I just again, like I watch It's It's it's an interesting thing. It must be like that's gonna be awful and you may want to cut it out, but it must be like being a good cop, Like if you see like they're shitty cops out there and you're like a good person

who wants to do right by your community. And just seeing your whole your whole profession, just being yeah, shipped on. That's what I feel like about being a movie producer because like if you google movie producer right now, nothing

good is going to come up first. I'm sure for a while you have to go through the Google search ual and I just don't Again, all my friends, these guys that are that I interviewed, every person and every man and woman that I interviewed is a good person and and they're making of the ship that's out there Yeah, that's good to know. I'm glad you're putting that message out there too. Um. Very cool. Again the producer's guy

Todd Garner in Hollywood's elite. Uh, if you love movies, I mean, it's getting a peek behind the curtain is so fun for me and I know a lot of fun for our listeners. I appreciate you talking about that stuff. Yeah, I mean we I talked to Jeff Probes about catering for about forty five minutes. So if you really want to get in the weeds deal, well, I think about does he feed those people for thirty nine days on that island? So if you want to get into the

weeds about producing. Josh and I were actually on when he had his TV show, his talk show for a little while we were on the Jeff Probe Show. It was one of like two or three talk shows that we ever did. It also one of two or three episodes he did. So Yeah, he's great. He's the best. He's a really good friend of mine. He's probably I think he's the best host in the last twenty years. It was good. We used to It's funny. We got more ops like that earlier in our career. We don't

get any asks anymore for anything. And maybe it's just because podcasting itself is so huge now. Yeah, we're just in the mix of yeah, a gazillion other people. But yeah, we used to do talk shows and all this other stuff. And it's so funny too. It's like it's something in the world of podcasting. Podcasting becomes a world where you kind of kind of stay inside of your world too. I mean it's so big now you go on and

you go on someone else's podcast. We were talking about Doak Shepherd earlier, like he's just he's a huge podcast and so you know, he doesn't need to go on anything else. He can just go on other people's podcasts. Yeah, so it's a lot, yeah, more fun to do that. And because I'm kind of thinking now, it wasn't like lamenting that I don't want to go on. I never really,

I don't know. It was always very nerve wracking for me. So, yeah, I worked with Joe Rogan on Here Comes to the Boom and he was talking about yeah, and I think about doing this podcast. I'm like, that's adorable. Yeah, And he's like, I'm going to Denver and we get out of l A and I get him. Now, it's cute. What are you doing? You can have a microphone and awesome? Oh my god. Yeah he's wealthy. Yeah yeah, good for him.

All right, So you wanted to do raising Arizona and uh in that rat Dak Shepherd took it from you, and I think you put out a couple of more. But as soon as you said Arthur, I jumped on it because and this is no Lie Todd. I think from the age eleven two, probably eighteen or nineteen, it was my most scene movie. When I got into college, I started, you know, like spinal tapping with saddles, all these movies I watched over and over and over. But um, I h HBO ran it. It It was one of those

HBO movies for me. Didn't see it in the theater. And I was an HBO kid who did nothing but sit around and watch movies or MTV, and Arthur was one of those movies. I thought it was the funniest fucking thing I had ever seen in my life. And by the way, and it holds up, totally holds up. And what's fascinating is I I didn't even have HBO.

My I lived in San Fernando Valley, and so my one friend had a VHS machine, so we just went back and forth between Stripes, which also came out in the and and Arthur, and just went back and forth and back and forth and backup. I wasn't allowed to watch Stripes. Really, that's a fascinating by the way. You know that Arthur was PG at the time. Then it's interesting because it was pre PG thirteen, so I guess it wouldn't have been our really. I guess maybe now

it might have been. But I mean, you can't even make it now. First of all, within the first minute of the movie, he's picking up a prostitute and he drives hammered twice. Well, it's funny as an adult seeing it last night. I hadn't seen it in a while. But it is interesting to see a movie, a comedy about an alcoholic and someone who's got a really, really bad, bad drinking problem, and it's so funny and he drives drunk, and like, there's no way you could do that stuff. Now, No,

what's interesting about that movie? Yes, but first all, it shouldn't work. Should nothing about it. It shouldn't work. You have the it's the strangest catalysm and early is the strangest piece of casting, which is beautiful, works great, and it was every winger for it, which would have been amazing too. But and and again, playing drunk in a calm it is hard now if you go back and look at really just the way they made that movie. Steve Gordon was the first time he was a writer

director script was around forever. The only other script feature script he wrote was the one and only With with Henry Winkler, who played basically gorgeous George. Yeah. So he had come up through some TV Barney Miller and those kind of television ships. Made a great TV writer. Yeah, made this one movie and and died of a heart attack six months later. Yeah, which I don't I don't know if a lot of people know that years old. Yeah, just tragic. Yeah, And everybody that read the script loved it.

But it was again really hard even then, very hard really. And then what happened is thank god, Dudley did ten right. So Blake Edwards proved that Dudley could play drunk, which is still one of the funniest things I've been going down to Mexico. So Dudley could play drunk and it didn't feel like a bit. Yeah. And the thing about Dudley that movie, if you if that, the first five minutes of that movie should be should be every film school should be required to watch it because within five

minutes you have everything you need to know. We talk about efficiency is set up so much on the show. This is the most efficient, so important. He first of the song, and the lyrics of the song say that this guy is stuck between the Moon and New York City, so he's obviously going through something amazing. Laugh is hilarious.

First three lines of you know are hilarious. Then he pulls up and the first thing he does, he pulls up in his car and on the side it says a B so you obviously go okay, Well that must be his initials. He's holding a glass of scotch. He's got a driver who's completely ineffected, so this must happen all the time. Rolls on the window. There's two prostitutes and he says the douchy thing at first, which is he says, with a more attractive of you, please step forward.

Neither of them do right. His face instantly changes, He gets that vulnerable look and in a very real Way says, with a person who finds me most attracted, stuff up and that everything you need to know. He's vulnerable, he's willing to be real. And then she walks up. He has a hilarious negotiation where he negotiates against himself. She then says who is that? He says, that's Arthur Box. She says, that's Arthur Bok. He won't tell something wrong

with him? And he thinks for about five seconds and he goes, Yes, everything you need to know right there. And so you go, Okay, this guy's got a problem. He's vulnerable, he's not he's a nice guy. And he goes, we give her a hundred dollars. She got Kevan second right, So just and if you're in he's not like and again, not to disparage the sequels Russell, but like you watch Russell's performance, Russell has I never saw it. I couldn't

bring myself to well, here's the difference between Russell and Dudley. Dudley, first of all, was he drinking in that movie? Was he a drunk or not? The whole movie of Arthur is about father's and it's about not wanting to be alone and so and they hit those beats a hundred times in the movie, and Arthur says out loud, gotta

be twenty times. I don't like to be alone. And one of the most beautiful moments in the movie is when he's when Sir John Gilgood says, I don't want you to be alone, and he has that flucked flicker in his eye where you go, oh, yeah, something's wrong with him, like ten minutes into the movie The First Night, the First Morning with the with the Press two and so the problem I think with Russell is Russell has this intelligence and his deviousness, and I think that the

movie didn't work because Dudley never plays it that way. He never plays he's trying to get someone something over on somebody, never plays that he's smarter than anybody else. He never plays that he's gonna, you know, cause anybody damage. And I think that subtly people just looked at Russell went oh, he's so smart and so cunning that it felt a little cunning as opposed to you want to how this guy, you know, because on paper, first of all, I probably just couldn't have seen any Arthur remake. I

just this movie is so special to me. But on paper. When I saw it was it was Russell, I was like, that's kind of perfect, Like, what a great casting choice. Um, I think interestingly and this this is sort of a silly thing to say, maybe, but I think part of what made Dudley Moore works so well was his size. He was a little guy, he was tinier than everyone. He wasn't threatening, he was I mean, he was a kid at heart anyway, and so it just sort of

felt right. Russell is what's brand right, He's tall, He's gorgeous tall. Yeah, he's good looking, and it was just, I don't know, something about it just didn't feel like Arthur to me. Well, that's why he worked so well as Atticus Finch, you know, right, Atticas Finch is that his name? And Attics something in in forgetting Sarah Marshall. Yeah, Attica's Finch was to kill the first anyway. He worked so well because he has that live kind of smarter than you. Um. Yeah. And the thing that's so great

about Dudley is he's just so physical comedy. He's nothing better just even following at at Susan Johnson was very slowly following him, and just the themes of that movie if you think about just the just none of us want to grow up. It's a Peter Pan story. Yeah, so you don't want to grow up, and you're everybody fears being alone. And really that's just the subtle, the subtle nuances of just fathers. You know, he he has a dad who is American, he's English, So so what happenstance?

This is a total lucky break. Dudley couldn't play it American because that's what I read. He would have been in his head the whole time. I've had this so many times, especially with Australian actors, where you go try to be funny and do American actors and you know that's the timing is very hard going in. You're processing, you know, you're you're not there, so at least hitting away. So subtly what they got is that John Gielgud raised him.

And that's why as an English accent, I love that little subtext there, and just the whole thing with you were a great son at the end and that and then and then Susan Johnson has a father who's just a murderer, who just who will kill anybody who gets in his way. And then Liza has her dad who's just sweet and well meaning, but it's literally like please marry the ability. So everybody is dealing with their fathers and in different ways. It's just really really, really interesting.

And there's no moms around in the movie at all. There's not one's grandma. Who's who's not? Who's the best? Yeah? The ballbuster And so when you have those that's why I got away with it because the vulnerability of him, the way he played the vulnerability, and those big themes helped propel all the other kind of more hard to swallow stuff. Yeah, I mean I have I have a note in here that, um, he had to have this sadness in him about his alcoholism. And they don't overwhelm

you with it. But there are just a few beats in that movie really well placed. In fact, one early on, when he first goes into the restaurant with the with the lady you just picked up, uh, the he's at the table and you know as a kid, they recently had the whole country carpeted. And those are the jokes that I was dying at as a kid. You know, a little more obvious ones can it should have come in there and scrub your dick for you, Like those

were so funny to me and they're still funny. But um, he's going on at the table and the old guy says, you know, we also understand you're very drunk, and you just it's a face acting thing. You see him realize I've done it again and I've embarrassed myself again. Uh And if those yeah, if those yeah, he does, and if those little beats weren't there, it would not have worked. Every time he's sitting at the table and he has a moment where he's holding the scotch and she says something,

and he he goes, do you like me? And she goes yeah, and he see he stops and he goes, no, no, do you like me. It's like a little little moment, heartbreaking, and he has the best line I think of any movie in the last twenty years, which he says, not all people that are poets, not people who drank are poets. Some of us drink because we're not. Oh my god, it just I just got like, that's the line. There's

so many lines like that. Also, just like Sir John Gilgad saying again right to theme, she's Liza manarly says to John. So John, um, you take care of good care of him, don't you? And he goes, I do the job. I highly recommend. Right. It's just like those moments are so real, the aspirins are for you. There's so many real, amazing performances in that just just when else when my favorite ones which I didn't get as a kid and just really made me laugh. A lot of it went over my head. This is this is

just a rhythm thing. He walks into lies his apartment and the first thing he tells the dad, if you could just see you and your under shirt could step back. But then he walks in and it is probably a thirty second tracking shot with John as he's taking in the entire thing, and you think he might go give him a command. He goes, he's such an asshole in that scene. It's funny. All he's doing is sort of

disparaging the father. And yes, but she still you know, has stars in her eyes because she thinks he's a sweet guy. He can I kiss you on the cheek something you feel strongly? Yeah, he's yeah, I know this movie by heart itself. Me too. I I have to watch it alone because I will start just doing all the line now, and he you know, and then again you have those moments where Dudley plays it real where he says, I'm so unhappy I'm who I wouldn't even matter if I was here. I've never done anything in

my life. Nobody loves me. And he says, helmet and your goggles and slaps him and he says, you little ship. Anybody would love to be you. And by the way, and he throws away, he goes and by the way, I love you. Yeah, it's just those moments. It's such a good movie. He was nominated for four Academy Awards, which doesn't happen anymore. Yeah, I'm really I mean, someone should do a documentary about Steve Gordon and then the making of this film, because you gotta know, you gotta

wonder what else he had up as sleeve. Well, let me geek you out for a second. So, having done this for a long time and really now going back and looking at it, you can see speaking first time filmmaker. So, um, the producers were really you know, they were really wood easy guys. They owned New York. There were a bunch of different there were at that time. There were different camps.

So there was the Woody camp, the Scorsese camp, and then the was his name, I'll think of it, and one other camp of a guy who did really kind of great Dog Day Afternoon, like great drums, and so the Woody camp, you could see they surrounded Steve Gordon, so Susan Morris is the editor who edited all of Woody's and then the the the Fred Schuler who was the DP. He did King of Comedy like, so you can see they like surround with him so that he could just focus on being funny, getting the best out

of out of Dudley. And I found that really interesting. So in that movie started at Paramount, they couldn't cast it, and then they went to Orion. So Mike Metavoy also I've had on my podcast. He was the head of Orion at the time, and he bought that movie from Paramount and let him go make it. Did you talk to him about Arthur? Yeah, and and again because he had made a lot of movies with Woody and so those guys brought it to him and he trusted them

and thought, that's funny. You guys know how to make these movies. It's not gonna cost a luck, go do it. Yeah, so those are the those are the fun things about the the total you know, you where you can really look at the movie and go oh and they just left him alone. Yeah. The casting of Lives of and La you mentioned earlier. Um, I remember as a kid thinking, uh, you know, I was eleven and it it. Now this sounds terrible, but I just remember as a kid thinking like,

she's not very good looking, Like she's not who is that? Yeah, Like I didn't know who she was, and I didn't know any of her background or the Judy Garland stuff, And I just remember thinking like, why didn't they cast some bombshell because that's what you're used to seeing, and as an eleven year old, that's certainly what you want to see. But from the moment she steps on that screen,

they just their chemistry. They're like, uh, some old, like married comedy couple that's been doing it for a hundred years. They're so good together. And it's what's funny about lies On that first scene in the berg darfs Is you

can tell she's in a totally different movie. Yeah, she came with her whole wardrobe, hair, wearing that crazy the whole outfit, and it's like she just sees she steps on screen like I'm in I give a fuck, I don't care what everybody else is dressed as I'm in this movie in this outfit, big yellow coat, yellow coat and the red hat. But and and she's holding a Ferrari bag, so it's like she's she's, she's you know.

And that's also what helped, because it wasn't just I. I think, you know, it's apocryphal because everybody says everybody was in every movie, you know, but I do. I did do some research, and they did want Debra Winger, and she just couldn't get her head around it. She would have been great, amazing recast in your head. Yeah, she's really great and they worked so well together. Um that scene and and it's it's sort of hard when you do a comedy like this to not just like

say your favorite lines. So I've just cherry picked a few, but that scene has a couple of my favorites. Was when he's talking about the perfect crime and you know, you know, some girls were tied, so it's not a perfect crime, it's a good crime. And then Gilga goes, if she moded the tie, it would be the perfect crime exactly. He you know, I read I did her research for this a little bit. I did do some reading about it. He would literally turn the lives and goes,

am I being funny, like what's happening? And everybody was like, just keep going, don't try. He was so good, so much one something all of that, he had so many good ones. And then you get to that crazy third act turn, just one of my favorite third acts in the movie ever, and just that moment where he says, I'm scared and you just everything just and he's not scared for him, He's scared for Arthur. Yeah, because he's amazed to being okay with dying. Yes, yeah, it occurred

to me last night. How I've never really noticed that Arthur has learned so much from him. Arthur deals with his pain through jokes, because Hobson does, and Hobson he's He's dealing with his death through making humor out of it. And then just that turn where though he he everybody says you look like shit. Yeah, he says, you never seen me sober. Yeah. It's just so incredible. And there's two ways to read that scene where he's giving the toys to Hobson. One is that he's just a kid.

The other doesn't know what to do the others he's trying to just distract Hobson, and you know with the train is obviously from his just that's their thing. But I just love that he gives him the hat and he goes, if I start to die, take this off me. It's not the way I want to be remembered. But you can see him just playing like here, just don't feel bad, Like he doesn't know how to deal with it, so he's just trying to distract him from this moment

of dying. Yeah, and I think that stuff really works because you see the behind the scenes stuff that Hobson doesn't see, which is him in the hallway ordering these special meals and he doesn't want his last meal to be jello, and he stepped up. You know that the movie really needed that. I mean, it's one of my favorite third X too. Arthur only uses money to try to help other people or make people happy. It makes

feel happy. And there's a really critical moment in the movie where he gives her the hundred thousand dollar check and she rips it up and the dad cries, which is one of the best acting moments, you just hear it for the other room, because that is really that kind of the crux of the whole thing of like money doesn't make you happy, right, but also has one of the greatest endings of all It doesn't suck. I took the money. I'm not crazy. But it's also about

money can't buy you happiness. You have to find love. You have to find those people that love and take care of and it is it is hard to be alone. Yeah, it's it's it's a it's a really fascinating movie because I think when most people first think of it, they do think of like all those great lines, you know, I was just doing great with you, like you think of all those, you know, just really hilarious lines. But

the joke count is insane. It's just crazy. I don't know how you write a movie this densely packed with jokes. Neither and you'll have so much heart in drama. And I kept looking at like if there was some improv stuff too, Like I was like going, Wow, I wonder how much Dudley improv. I'd like to read the script. Well you can. The problem is, I mean not the problem.

The amazing thing is you see one you know that maybe was an improv and then it ties in later, so it wasn't an improv because well unless they wrote

it down and said, oh, we're gonna pay. Like these things was so carefully plotted, you know, and there's so many like little tangents, like just the scene with the guy who sells some flowers you need five, you know, and him five friends you feel in love, and then he says, by flowers for that girl you saw in the bus, Like he remembers these things and says to people, do this for your wife because you know, And then and then later on you know, and then and and

just the fun of by tending green. I don't wear sweaters and he wear sweaters the whole movie. He's just saying that just to kind of, you know, appease the person he's buying it from. Just all these this little tiny things that are layered in that are pulled through so elegantly, and I gotta believe it came from sitcom writing where he just put it all in there and just insanely because Dudley so talented, they all worked. Yeah, because nine times out of ten, you know, like you

go back and you look at the Judd movies. You know he's throwing they're not all working, so you pull them out and I see Dudley was I just think Dudley was such a master that they just kept them all in. Yeah. I mean the joke count is ridiculous. And you know it has lines that I still say in my real life. I say, it doesn't suck a lot. And then whenever anyone says something about the light outside or look at the light on that thing, I always say, of course, you can't depend on that light. It's one

of my favorite lines. Also one of the greatest pieces of editing Susan Morris, because what happens in that scene is he goes, fine, then I'm not gonna take the money. She's like, and the father's like, well fine, then you're cut off, and then you don't know the number, and he goes, you just lost seven dollars and door shut. You know when the lights are just right but it's all off camera. The first two lines does that kid, it's it's so yeah, and and again just a testament

to Dudley. And I was watching it when I watched it this time, even like when he puts his drink on the on the fender there. That is not an improv because he's such a physical comedian. They must have put something because he puts it twice, and he does it and then but he doesn't overdo it like I could see another actor standing there for ten minutes acting like it's gonna fall. He just does a quick little beat each time. Well, that was one tangent was saying

about the floral arrangement. The other tangent is berry Berry's wife. No need for that to be in the movie whatsoever. It's amazing. It's one of my favorite scenes. It's got

one of my favorite lines. My husband has a gun. Yeah, and for all I know he shot at while you were yelling at But also when I watched it again as an older person, you could say, is thematically, that is what you don't want to be, somebody who just is in a horrible relation ship, being beaten up, not happy, because he goes get back in there and give her what for. And then the first thing he says when he finally gets let into Susan's party, because don't you

hate Perry's why? So again, that's the thing. You realize how confident he was because he had that in there, knowing he was going to leave that scene in there. I think now probably who knows, maybe in a preview that that scene is amazing, I might have cut that scene. Yeah, you know, to get to the ninety minutes that you know you need, because these movies back in the day weren't previewed like they are now, right, these comedies, you

really relied more on your own gut. Yeah. Interesting, there was one line that I you know, when you see a movie that you know by heart, it's always interesting when you catch a line that you never caught before. And I was like, there's no way I know every word of this movie, but there was a line and I guess it was said and maybe I was a kid and I didn't understand it. But I actually had to subtitle it last night because I didn't know what

he said. But after the tie theft scene, when he's talking about like how amazing she is, Geel could goes, she does have a sorta in eleanor Roosevelt clause And never caught that line. Great, and it really doesn't really even make sense, but coming from him, everything he says

is a perfect put down. Yeah, he really and again Steve must have rewritten the script once lies it was cast because a lot of stuff is specific to her that wouldn't have worked again if you would have cast like right right, it would have been a little bit more on the nose. Yeah, casting is great. Oh and then and then again going to back to his vulnerability and why you love him. The whole date scene. Yeah, he takes her to a little carnival. Yeah, and stays

pretty sober. I think he's drinking a little wine at dinner, but he doesn't get smashed. And they have this amazing thing where he's a kid and she's like, wow, I thought dating a millionaire would be different, and he's like having this joy, which is a total juxtaposition to where he took the prostitute right to the Plaza, right right right in the heart of everything and just kind of you made a big show of it, but with her, took her away and did something really personal and sweet

with her. Well, it's all I think he was almost interested in thumbing his nose at the system that he's a part of by bringing her to the Plaza hotel at the beginning, But when he has you know, and the moments that make this movie so you know, it gives you an emotional tie. Are his sober moments, Like the drunk stuff is very flesh, but it's all those sober moments that really that's the heart of the film.

The whole scene with the horse because I wish you had made love I was seeing in the morning, you know, and he can I kiss you and he kisses the horse. I wasn't talking about you, Like those are the ground and the subtlety of the performances too, and and being able to track that so like one of the most fascinating pieces of acting for me is he's in that bar with that rummy, who's great casting that guy which

one terrible. The guy he says he's getting married, he doesn't there in the bar the day of the wedding. He's amazing. I have that sober for a mom He's amazing.

And then he says, goes to your brother, yea, nobody wants to be alone, and then he tracks it to going to her still hammered, and then getting to the wedding a little less drunk, but still drunk to be able to walk down the aisle, and then that whole performance with you think he wants and then to the end being kind of sober again being but being in pain because you've been beat up, right, that's probably a week of shooting that you had to just know where

you were. Well, yeah, and just but also just his performance of Okay, how where am I in relation to because because when he was drinking with that, it was five hours before his wedding, bitterman comes in and goes to have five hours Yeah, so it's like in the middle of the day basically morning. Yeah, and then and then he goes to get her at the dinner and he says, I'm getting married in twenty minutes. So he's got a track like how sober he is? Yeah, and

he does it perfectly. Yeah. I love that scene in the bar with that guy. Is he when Dudley Moore when Arthur starts to get all worked up, he gets up and tries to leave a couple of times, make a scene. He's not into that at all. It's real, He's like. And also when he when when Arthur is going to meet with Susan's dad in the Hampton's it's

my favorite sequence of my favorite comedy. Yeah, well, think about he's driving drinking again out of the bottle and then he stops in front of the thing and does the laugh. Oh, and that's when you know he's there. He's there, and he can he can, he can face all the butler stuff. Are you sure you want to be a nightclub comic? It was amazing us. You did you hate this moose? That the moose stuff. The funniest

line to me is right at the beginning with the moose. Well, first of all, the way they had that shot framed down low, with that giant fucking moose nose in between them. And he makes a joke and looks at the moose and just because this is a tough room, but I don't have to tell you that, And then it goes where he says, don't talk about the moose anymore. And

then he says I killed a man. And he just deadly, just slowly looks at it, doesn't see anything, but it's one you don't even see the most he just looks up like God, he's so brilliant. Was he nominated for this? Yes, he won the Golden Globe to well ordinary people one, so I'm assuming ordinary people want best pictures. I'm assuming it was somebody from ordinary people. I didn't look it up. Interesting but in in in eighty one he was nominated. He won Golden the Golden Globe for Best Comedic Actor

but didn't win. But gil Good one and the song one, uh, the Arthur theme one, right, and the stream play was nominated and didn't didn't win either. I'm assuming ordinary people won that as well. Yeah, that song. I mean, there's a as soon as those opening notes hit with the Little Ryan, it was Oriyan that Orian logo, It's like, that does something to my psyche. You're in from my being eleven years old and seeing this movie a thousand times. And you know, I don't think my parents they were

pretty guard it about what I watched. But um, I think I just got away with this one. Yeah. Well, because it was PG. They didn't know bugs Bunny, they didn't know. They thought, oh it's fine, and some you know, these subtle jokes were being being fed to you. But it was a love story, you know, it was a really sweet movie. It wasn't it wasn't too tawdry. I mean it was so like alcoholism, wasn't the kind of you didn't think about it in the same way. Then

you can play it for laughs. And even at the end he says, I'm gonna try to I promise I'll try to stay sober. He doesn't say I'm not going to drink anymore. There's no, there's no. And you realize when the grandmother says no, there's never been a Bach who has been a working class back she says, your your your son will be president or at center. You

realize they've all. He's all they've got. Yeah, there's nobody else, right, So the line ends with him, and I was thinking also speaking of the Arthur remake, I was thinking about the sequel, Arthur on the Rocks. I did see that, but I don't remember much of what the problem is. His arc is so closed. It's over a right. So he starts off as a child and he ends as an adult. Even says I've grown up, right, and so

you there's nowhere to go. Yeah, it's not like a superhero where then you just send Arthur on at a venture. It was a complete so they tried to reset, and so then you just ended up going through the same Well was even the plot, I don't know. He was married and drunk and having to to try. I can't remember what the actual plot was, but that was the ark of his character just reset and you're like when you saw this, like, why am I watching this again?

You know that was the problem and that thing was great in it, but it's just such a perfect character arc of a guy who's growing up, a kid who's growing up. That's why we all loved it at our ages. Yeah, it's interesting. And he also has that moment with Susan when he gets engaged a couple of I mean, that's a pretty pivotal scene. Um, he's being forced to do this, he does it anyway. He says this is who I am and basically like, this is who you're marrying. You

know that. And then the second he pops the question and he says, yes, he wants to leave, he wants to go home, he feels sick, he wants to go pass out. Basically, Yeah, it's amazingly about that scene she orders food and he's just got a silver tray with a full glass of scotch. And do that move occasionally in restaurants, Yes, I'll let a drink on an empty plate. The two lines I sometimes say generally when I'm in Vegas. One is engine room with the house my child. God,

it's so great. And the second one is I'm gonna need one. My doctors advised me I need the man. I've done the engine room thing because you rarely see an actual telephone in these days. So occasionally, if I'm actually in a place where I have a telephone, I'll pick it up and I'll go engine room where there's my drink and no one knows what that No, that's it's great. Um let me see here, I'm going through my notes. I think that like, structurally, they could you know,

they could teach this in screen running class. It's and what I learned as a writer, and I've obviously I am not great at it, or else i'd be making movies right now. But I did learn a thing or two about what goes into a good script. And I think like the advice I would give if I ever talk about it is there are very few Charlie Kaufman's out there, like there there's a formula for a reason. It's because it works and it's what people are conditioned to.

And good writing to me is I mean, if you can be Charlie Cauman, great, but um, don't try to be because you're gonna fail. Probably, Like stay within the formula and just do a really good job at it. Hit those act plot points as as like perfectly as you can at the thirty minute mark and at the whatever you know eighty you know, third act plot point, and make it great within those parameters, because people need

to see movies that they understand. Generally, I think a lot of screenwriters suffer from worrying that there being two on the nose, which you can be obviously, but that if you look at Arthur, every scene restates the theme in some way. It's very on the nose yea. And sometimes he just says it out loud, I don't want to be alone, and sometimes he says I just want people like me, and sometimes he says, um, you know

you're my father. It's so all of the themes of growing up, not being afraid of being an adult, not wanting to be alone, and our relationships with our fathers is restated in every scene. And so if you're a screenwriter that's starting out and are writing a screenplay, just make sure that you are every scene has a reason for being right. And that's the other thing I find as a lot of times people just want to be clever and or they'll say, well, the audience gets it.

They're gonna, you know, and it's not that the audience is just stupid, they're very intelligent. But if you can, but it's your job to hide the cards. So if you just have a scene that's like, well this happened to me, I think it's interesting, and like, what the hell? This has nothing to do with the movie, every scene needs to not only move the plot forward, but move the characters forward and continue to restate the theme in some way, because that's what gets you emotionally invested in

these characters. So that first five minutes of Arthur, you're just in because he said everything he needs to say. He's generous, he's a scoundrel, He's but he's vulnerable, he's lovable and this is clearly something he's struggling with and he wants to do better, but he doesn't know how.

And so every scene kind of does that. And for us, I think the reason why um, people who saw it in their teens and as children love it so much is it really just is about fathers and our relationships with their dad and the In fact, she says it in one of the craziest lines of all time when she says, my mom moved out when I was six, and my dad raped me when I was twelve. He goes, well, you had six relatively good years, and then he says,

don't worry, my father screwed me too. And it's it's a easy line that you probably couldn't say and of today, but it hits everything that he's about. He's trying to trying to deflect her pain through humor, and he's trying to relate to her by being vulnerable. Right. Yeah, it's a really good screenwriting exercise. Yeah, and it's like a tight rope. Like on the surface, it looks like just this sort of easy movie to make, but it's really not.

It could this movie could have gone so wrong. Um, if you know, if anyone other than Dudley Moore, maybe I knew he thought about Jack Nicholson and he was trying to cast American. Yeah, I think you know, everybody always had Charles Groden in every Yeah, that's what I hear. It's always these things are apocryphal, That's what I'm saying. So funny, but he was a little too dry maybe for this. He also was very close on Pretty Woman, Oh, got right? Yeah, right, I think he might even screen

tested with Julia. He's not a romantic lead though, or I think at the time, when you know he was doing so many good movies, you know, and different roles between Heaving eight and you know all, you know, all the all the movies that he was doing, I think people just were like, he's a star, let's give him interesting. I keep waiting on someone to pick my probably second favorite comedy of all time, Midnight Run. By the way, let me give you some insight about being a producer,

so me too. I loved Midnight Run, which is why I made Jeelie. Oh Wow, where you go? Goodness again? There you go. We're Marty Brass can do no wrong. Like it's Marty Brest. He did Beverly Hills copy to that. Everybody has their moments, you know, and and and we had anybuddy, you know, we had done you know, Armageddon in Pearl Harbor with Ben and so it's just you know, it's again, it's a fly. It's like everybody says, it seems super easy to do, but one thing can go wrong.

It's like the Space Shuttle. It just sort of drinks off into into space and you can't bring it back. Making a movie a good movie is incredibly difficult, and uh, I don't know if everyone gets know how hard it is, because it's so easy to be an armchair critic and to come down on something, but making movies difficult, so hard, and especially now with you know, everybody has a microphone

that is equal to any other microphone. And like, if you're on Twitter Entertainment Weekly and Frank from Burbank has the same Twitter feed, the same maybe one has more followers, but I can still get to you if you're he's dagging you, Frank ouch uh and but um yeah, And so it's it's it's nearly impossible to make a good movie, and so when it happens, it's it's joyous. And that's why I again being the crazy optimist that I am and being like what you say, a sycophant, um, I

I I celebrate everybody's success. Also, I send emails and text to all my friends when they hit USA. Have to That's how it should be. It's so hard, you know. Yeah, I've had I've had movies that I've done with the exact crew of a movie that did it huge hit just the movie before, and it just didn't work out. The same way, you know, And so anytime that alchemy

comes together, you got to celebrate it. I send a note over and I send emails I do you know, I just celebrate him and I bring him my podcast and tell them how great they are, because it's really hard, and there are certain when you see guys. I just saw that I'm late to the party. I just saw the HBO documentary on Spielberg, and you look at that guy and you just realize, Okay, you he's the magician,

and he's just so good at what he does. And then you watch the documentary and you realize how hard he works and how much he studies and how much prep work he does to be able to be the maestro on the day. Yeah, you know, I did. When I was working TV commercials, I did work with some of those big directors. I did a couple of Michael Bayer commercials and I worked with Tony Scott, and it was interesting to see the difference in those two guys on a set. And Tony Scott was the leader of

the army. Everyone loved him. Everyone would go to battle with him, and he was constantly moving and just had so much positive forward momentum as a person, uh you know, a sense of play. Let's go do this, pick up a camera, let's go do that. And Michael Bay was just it was the worst, really god damn experience. Yeah, I mean a d I think we went through like three a d s on that job, like throwing their walk He's into the Grand Canyon because they were so

mad and he's intense, uh just berating. He was berating the stunt drivers and it was tough. And I I've made a couple of movies with them, so I honestly believe he wouldn't even understand that that happened. Really, yeah, because I think he's so he loves it so much and he's such a kid at heart. I think he just loves doing it. He wants to just go fast and be right. I think that he wouldn't even I think he would be like probably saw those pas and be like, hey, you're gonna have a beer. Like I

don't think he That is true. Actually, he didn't turn his uh he was he was never turning his eye on us. In fact, I always tell the story that it's it was kind of great too because PA's were kind of invisible to him, so he could be having a meltdown in someone and I could be standing three ft from him and he's not like, what are you looking at? Get out of here. He just didn't even see me. Well, he's you know, he's also doing eighty

five setups a day, you know. So he's on a ten million dollars Ford commercial or whatever he's and he doesn't need ten million dollars. He did the first Bad Boys for and he's just a maniac in that way. He just loves it and he wants to get every squeeze, every bit of juice out of the orange as he can as he's making the movie. And I think that that you're changing my mind on. He brings a lot of eggs. I've know the guy very well. I've done

I've done, I did UM. I worked on Pearl Harbor with him, and he did Armageddon at the studio when we were there, and and in the Rock and so I know him and I've been in the trend just with him. I've gone head to head with him on some things. But I but I, but I. What I love about him is that it's not punitive and it's not ego. It's all about the work, all right, And it's just a guy who is just like, let's go pick up and he's excited and and yeah, I'm sure

he can like I'm glad to hear this perspective. And also he should never judge someone on three or four days out of their life, you know, but you're not. I think that's the way it works. And I don't think he would. I don't I think he'd be like, yeah, it wasn't it great. I just think that there are certain I just think there are certain coaches too that are like, do you have you ever watched Last Chance? To you? Yeah, you know, you just see that coach And I just don't I don't think he I don't

think he like hates those kids. I just think he thinks we're gonna win, and then if we win, you're all ships rise in the tide um. There are you know, I've worked with other directors that are just complete, you know, sociopathic assholes that just just mean people, right, um, And he's not that now, And you don't want to work with those those people, even even if they're great. Life's too short. Well, Todd, I feel like we could talk

for another feen hours. Uh, this is awesome. I would love to hang out next time you're in Atlanta, anytime, go get some dinner or whatever. Anytime. Thank you for picking Arthur. Thank you. And if you're listening and you have not seen the original Arthur, my god, just watch it. It holds up. It's still so so funny, has so much heart, and especially when you know the story behind with the director making his one film and passing away

so young. It's just kind of one of those legendary comedies. Yeah, thank all right everyone. I hope you enjoyed that as much as I did. I think you could tell by listening to this that Todd and I really hit it off.

He was a super cool guy, very nice, nice man, and it's uh I really think it's awesome what he's doing, uh a in his career, just by being a good guy that's a producer, and also his podcast and kind of spreading the word about what producers do and how you can be a good guy and be a producer and you don't have to yell and scream and be a terrible human being. And I think so often, unfairly that's the the image that a lot of people have of the Hollywood movie producer. So thanks to Todd for

coming on. Definitely check out his podcast. It's really great. I would just kind of scroll through and pick someone that sounds interesting. It's a good way to start. And thanks a lot for listening, and we'll see you next week. The movie Crash is produced and written by Charles Bryant and Roel Brown, edited and engineered by Seth Nicholas Johnson, and scored by Noel Brown here in our home studio

at Pontsty Market, Atlanta, Georgia. For I Heart Radio. For more podcasts for my Heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.