Welcome to the program. It is a great honor and privilege. You get a man I've known for a long time, ran into him in a ton of industry events, but got to know a little better over the last weekend mister whitetail himself, Larry Wazoom, And this guy has really had an incredible impact on the whitetail world in terms of inspiring people to take up the hunting and conservation of whitetail wild lands and just really helped a lot of people, including myself, have a better understanding of the
majestic game animals. So welcome to the program, Larry.
Chester, Thank you so very much. I'm not sure I can live up to that introduction after that, hold me twenty bucks, you got it? I think I owe you more.
Well, Larry.
Over the weekend we were talking about like whitetail subspecies, and I think for the most part, most hunters in America just think of the whitetail just being a whitetail. But that is a species. But there are many subspecies of white tail. Can you kind of explain what a subspecies is?
The subspecies is essentially the same species that's learned how to adapt to certain parameters, certain weather conditions, certain climate conditions,
if you will, and different types of habitat. Here in Texas, we're so very blessed to have a great variety of habitat, from the piney woods of East Texas to the Real Grand Plains, to the coastal plains, to the central part of the state of Texas hill country, even out in the far western part of the state and the mountain country and then up in the Panattle in North Texas, and a lot of those areas are different, and basically some of those areas do have different subspecies of white
tail deer here in Texas. Of course, there are a lot of different subspecies. I think. I think someone said they're like thirty one subspecies of whitetail deer scattered across in North America, and I think we've got probably about four or five of those for certain here in Texas. But it's just simply an animal that in a regional area adapts to those circumstances that it has to live with. It creates a subspecies.
Yeah, I mean, and that's a great way to explain that, you know, because it is a white tail. You know, a whitetail from New York can breed with one in Mexico, but there are definitely, you know, morphological differences, slight differences because of diet, habitat and that kind of stuff.
And what really got.
Me going down this trail, Larry was just looking at a map a long time ago, and it had whitetail subspecies distribution and it had the Carmen Mountains white tail on it in Texas, and it described it as being the second smallest subspecies of whitetail, next to the key deer, which is a little bitty guy that's a federally in endangered species only lives in the southern half of the Florida Keys.
And when I.
Was talking to you, you got to go hunt these farm in Mountain white t tell us a little bit about that animal and their habitat.
Basically, there exist in the far western part of Texas above the elevation of forty five hundred feet. Now, there's some areas that claim they have Carmen Nins's white tail, but actually they're the Texas Nins's subspecies. The animal is relatively small, as you mentioned, I would almost in a lot of instances kind of argue whether they're the smallest pretending particularly in certain areas of Texas and New Mexico, and they exist primarily in that Big Bend area and
then down into Mexico. And they were named after the Carmen Mountain area down in Mexico's where the subspecies name came from. Excuse me, They are the ones that I've hunted, and I was very fortunate the first time I got a chance to hunt them was back in nineteen seventy seventy one down in the Kannati Mountains and was able to take a little buck little in terms of antlers.
He was a pretty good sized for corn. He was a six year old deer and intact that deer play might have weighed sixty to sixty five pounds in that
area too. Throughout that western part of the state, they're also known as fantails, and the reading they're coffee tails is because their tail is actually bigger than the regular white tail deer if you will, that we have as primary the Texas subspecies, And when it puts that tail up and runs away from me, it really looks like one of the old time sailing ships of your you know, huge flag, And so they're really a truly unique animal. Their antlers tend to of course be smaller because of
the body size being smaller. But again they're found primarily in those areas above forty five hundred feet of elevation, and I know that over the years there have been some people that have claimed there around Del Rio and some of those areas that those are Carmens's white tail, but they're not. They're not truly the true true Carmens species that found in the western part of the state and down and make.
That is uh, that's really cool to be able to, you know, think about that because a lot of people listening and go, hold on, you got forty five hundred ft elevation in Texas.
Yes, we do. Yes, we actually have higher places than that.
Yes, in the Davis Mountains, Guadaloupe's and places like that, and so that is a that's a really interesting thing to think about, that little difference in that area that really a lot of people will never even see because of the remote nature.
You know, you're exactly right. And what's interesting about some of those areas, particularly like down in the Shinnats, which is a mountain range that's right along the Rio Grande kind of northwest, probably of the Big Ben National Park. In that particular area, at the very highest of those hills, mountains whatever you want to call them, they're actually mountain because they are well above forty five hundred feet, you'll
find a little carmenencous white tail species there. Then you'll find the mule deer just down below, and then you get down in the flats, and also down in the flats, you'll there you'll find the Texas subspecies. So in some of those areas of West Texas, we actually have two subspecies, the white tail deer and the desert mule. Here the kruk Ie subspecies all found on the same mountain range, starting at the top of the Carmenensis and you kind of run into the Texas white tails and a lot
of times the mute there. They're restricted kind of to the flats and also the foothill those mountains.
Wow, what biodiversity, you know? It is The green world likes to talk about biodiversity, but I think a lot of times we hunters are the ones who celebrated the most by being enamored by my Lord. Is a small area here with two subspecies of whitetail and mule deer how cool is that.
It really is where I got familiar or when I first learned about the Carmen Mountain white tails as many years ago, back in the probably in the nineteen late nineteen fifties nineteen six there is an outdoor writer named Byron Dalrymple who was originally from Michigan. He was a musician, among other things, and he moved to Texas and every year he would go out to the area between Alpine and Marfa and hunt on what was then a huge
ranch called the Cattle Gauge. And of course he would write about the adventures of that hunt in phases of outdoor Life, primarily with other places as well too, and he would talk about the little fantails that existed at the very tops of those mountains, and then our regular white tail O Texas subspecies, but also the desert mutlitary that really has kind of got me interested, what got me interested in it. And then as a wildypologist, on that first hunt, I was able to take my first carmenensus.
And again one thing I noticed is their tales were so much longer. I've heard it said, although I can't prove it scientifically that they actually have one more vertebrate in their tail, and that's what causes that extension of that tale.
Very well, that's true or not.
I don't know. There's been some work done in the past. I think I made you aware of two monographs that were done. One was done down in the Big Ben National Park itself, and then the other one was done by two professors, Professor Craftsman and doctor Ernie Abels, because doctor Abels was one of my professors at Texas A and M while I was there going to school for
wildlife management. And I remember sitting and talking with him after I saw those stories and asking him about it, and I think that was one of the things that kind of created the interest of trying for him to try to do more work out there.
Oh that's great stuff, and learn more about these great animals.
You know.
That's kind of like other than you know, the Grand Slam or the finas, you know, the pursuit of the North American Wild cheap Carmen Mountain to.
Be like way up on my list of fun and.
Stuff now And maybe if you get that, I get a skull them out and then get the tail mounted out on its own on a plaque or something.
You know that'd be very Texas right there.
But it would be I'll tell you because their tails of the mentioner huge, their skulls because of their overall body size. If you put a Carmen Ensa's skull and I wish I still had mine mine, someone somewhere got lost in a move or two, particularly back when we were doing a bunch of stuff with we had Low s Cotta the doors hunting headquarters there in Paris. All
I had it there for a while. But if you were taking Carmen Mountain white tail skull and put it next to a South Texas white tail, and I'm talking about an animal that will probably field dress one seventy ar better. The difference in those skulls is it would probably be about two thirds smaller or a third again larger, depending on what you know, your perspective, kind of thing, which one you're looking at. But their sculpts are quite small compared to even our Texas hill country.
Well, we come back on More Outdoors. We'll talk more with Larry Wai Zoom. Welcome back to More Outdoors on News Talk five sixty KLVI. This is Chester Moore continuing our conversation about whitetail subspecies with Larry Wizooon. Very interesting stuff and what got me on this trailer talking with you about smaller whitetail was something that happened to me when I was a kid, and my uncle, Jackie Moore,
the late Jackie Moore, would tell me several times. I remember being hunting on my first hill country deer hunt because I lived and I still live in Orange County, and I didn't see a deer till I was twelve and went to the hill country there word of hardly any deer here locally, and I was with my dad and my uncle. This one evening, I was hunting my uncle and kind of walking out on the main road of the ranch, the Winkle Ranch and Old Daily's Atlanta
out toward the stand. My uncle told me that when they hunted in San Saba, they he saw this little buck a couple of times that was like he said, it was like the size of like a you know, a labrador dog hype maybe you're a little smaller and had a full eight point rack. Just really stuck with me. Well,
my uncle passed about thirteen fourteen years ago. At his funeral, we're talking about hunting and I said, hey, Dad, did Uncle Jackie ever tell you about that deer on the San sabage, because oh, I was on the same lease, and I saw some of those deer too, and I saw when I told you this story, you kind of lighting up. And you have an experience from back in the nineteen seventies of a small deer also in San Saba County.
I do years ago I started to at a wildife a dis ease specialists working under contract with the Texas Parks and Wilife Department and the Department of in Air Pathology, and we were out in San Sabin also in Atlantoak County, collecting deer for a variety of purposes, among other lazies, nutrition and trying to get general help on some of those deer and try to get some baseline information as far as blood and all those other kind of good
things that we were doing at the time. And I ended up shooting a deer, a buck standing by himself. I noticed he was kind of small standing there and shot him. And then when I walked up to him, that's when I realized that this dear, it was about the size as you mentioned, like a Collie dog or a retriever and full body size, he would have not
weighed fifty maybe somewhere between fifty and sixty pounds. Back then I used to picking up a lot of fifty pounds, and this one felt no heavier at all than that one. We ended up taking all kinds of tissues from him, and it was a regular white tail deer. But he was just one of those deer that for whatever reason, maybe a dwarf version of one, or for whatever reason,
greatly reduced size. The one too where he reminded me very much later when I was able to take or not that much later, when I took my first carmon Mountain whitetail in size, they were pretty darn similar.
That's intriguing, Like I've heard this story in my whole life, and you know, my dad saw him, my uncle Sam. And then when I did a little write up on this for Texas Fishing Games, someone emailed me from Saba that's been seeing one the last three years and so in sin Saba County.
So from a.
Biologist perspective, is it possible that it could be some that have like some kind of a dwarfism or something that gets passed on in the little pockets.
You know, it certainly could be because you look at the white tailed are and we're talking about subspecies as well too. A lot of times it is somewhat of an isolated area, but sometimes two. You know, strange things happen in nature, and even like within humans, there is that opportunity with the right connection of genes coming together, chromosomes coming together, and all that kind of stuff where people don't grow to the normal height of others, and
so I suspect it's something very similar to that. I don't really think it's a subspecies.
I think just.
Maybe in an area. You know, in breeding can do, or very intensive line breeding can do all kinds of things. Going back to looking at looking at some of the dog the different breeds of dogs, you know there'll be a three to and you've got a miniature one, and you've got and if you get the right combinations, you know you can reproduce those. And same thing like with with looking at Herford cattle and Angus cattle years ago,
and they were very intensively you know, lane breeding. All of a sudden they started having dwarf not only dwarf calves, but that never really grew. So I suspect something along those lines gonna happen. You know, those populations way back when we're market hunting for the market quite a bit and people lived off of venison. I mean that didn't have anything else. You know, there's take a deer SA could have reduced that population to a relatively small number.
And because of that, there may have been some very intensive of inbreeding or line breeding if you will, could have produced that and could produce that kind of deer.
No, it's interesting stuff. I just made my day.
It's like, all of a sudden, like a mystery if my whole life has been verified. So that's the kind of thing I live for as a journalist of all things wildlife, fishing and hunting.
I'm like, oh, cool story.
But you know, going along with this idea of subspecies, I live here on the Texas Gulf Coast. I live in Orange County here and not directly on the coast, but Sabine Lake, our northernmost bay system, is here, and I'm only forty minutes from the Gulf itself, and the subspecies that here is the Avery Island whitetail. And these guys go up through like maybe up in a Newton Jasper County down to Matagorda all the way across toward Avery Island in Louisiana over toward like the a Chapelaya Basin.
And have you ever had any experience hunting whitetail along that part of the coast.
I have kind of on the on the lower end of that. I've taken several deer in that area. And one of the things that I want to ask you about when is the when does the breeding season occur in your area?
All right, that is a great question because it's early, so there are deer right along the coastal area and there's not a lot of deer like done in Jefferson County on the coast on that little pocket, it's just so marshy. There's some and those suckers will rut like in September, the middle of September.
Yes, sir, there is an area on the on the lower end of that Avery Alven whitetail there where we've seen bucks chasing does at the third week in August. Wow, you know me. And that's one of the readings I ask you went there because that particular subspecies generally has a tendency to rut it's probably the earliest rut that we have in Texas of our Texas deer. Yeah, interesting about the reading the ruta. The reading season occurs when it does is so that two hundred and thirty days
later massa manus. Those funds are born at the most opportune time as far as nutrition is concerned. So you know, if you go back probably to eons, go to maybe as long until we introduced agriculture into that area, those funds were being born at a certain time. And there were two parameters that came into play with peak fawning times in Texas, one of course being the ideal time
for nutrition. The second thing was is because the number of screwworm flies that we used to have many many years ago, if those funds, regardless where they were in Texas, were not born pretty much in about a two week period, the chances of their survival was extremely low because just about time that naval cord was about to fall off, the screw worm fly would lay eggs and that pupas that developed, would essentially just eat that animal from inside out.
And it wasn't until back in the late nineteen sixties that they kind of more or less eradicated or I guess they did eradicate the screw and fly here in Texas, and so that started making a few different changes. But again going back to that Avery Allen white tail, they were born, they had bringing through the occurred, it did, so they were born at the most opportunity time. But also I'm sure coming into play was a screwing worm situation that we had back until about the middle nineteen sixties.
Very interesting.
And the reason I said, like around September fifteenth because I remember the first time I encountered on this about this early what I was teal hunting, and it was toward the middle of teal season. I'm looking out there south of Winnie, Texas, Yes, and like we're in the blind and there's a buck chasing a dough Like, whoa hold on, man, PayPal, you're a little bit early, aren't you.
But I looked around I saw that, you know, along the Texas coast had some of the earliest ruts in America, which is and that's really interesting about like that prime time for you know, having the fawns and fawn survival
in that window, so really interesting stuff. And a lot of these little bucks down here in this region, like I've seen more in the last couple of years over on the Louisiana side, and they have real baskety type racks, like little baskety type thick ant but real baskety type racks. But they really live in some dense like those shineer areas, like they're covered that they do have in those areas is really dense cover, so it makes sense kind of have a little baskety rack to get through that.
You're exactly right, and to a great extent, I think that somewhat can is what you mentioned there. The type of habitat and type of terrain and type of vegetation they live in. That's, to me is one of the great reasons why you do have those type type racks as opposed to with because if you had a bucket, you know, on one of those deer there and he's trying to run through what he has to run through, and he's got a twenty inch spread, that probably wouldn't
go very well. Yeah, this way, those those antlers are about here with maybe a little bit outside at the greatest outside of the ears, so there's always it's like he's got he's got a measure there that he can run through kind of thing, you knowing that he's not going to get hung up.
So come back on More those will talk more white Tails with Larry bai Zoom Welcome back to More Outdoors on News Talk five sixty klv I. Such an honor and privilege of Larry Wyzoom on the program, one of the most widely known respected deer experts on the planet, talking everything from whitetail subspecies that is unusual white tails, and this part of the conversation was one of my absolute favorites talking with Larry Wyzoom.
I suspect Mother Nature has selected over the years for those kind of racks as opposed to anything with any great amount.
Of whip neat neat animals.
Now we have the course the Texas whitetail, which is very widely distributed, and if I'm correct, that would dip down into South Texas and go up through the Edwards Plateau and all the way up toward North Tech.
Different food conditions, so body sizes are going to be a little bit different, even coloration is going to be a little bit different from some instrums. But then you also go back and you look at the fact that back in the nineteen fifties sixties, there were a tremendous number of deer mood sure, oh my gosh, out of Arandas National Park area, the King Ranch Area and other parks that were scattered then or reintroduced to different parts
of Texas. So you know, now we probably have a have a Texas deer that that's kind of a combination of a bunch of subspecies.
Yeah.
Probably, So I don't know if any of those, like you know, Ransas deer could survive because of that, because they know what it's like in the marsh. But if you took the vice versa and put one of those Kansas deer down in our marsh in twenty four hours, they'd be suck dry of blood. They wouldn't They wouldn't know how to hang down there.
You know.
It's like, uh, you know, you talk about adaptations. You know, if you took them out of the Arandas refuse, that's a tough deer that can hang with stuff. Like going to the hill country is like a break for them. Thank you, we got out of the marsh, you know, thanks.
They were finally dry.
Exactly, But you mentioned all but you know, all that different terrain we mentioned biodiversity with the habitat even with them like the Edwards Plateau. You take around Lanto and you got that kind of rolling you know, hills and the beautiful like limestone streams. Then you go out to the southwestern tier I love around Barksdale and camp Wood and you got pretty high you know, hills and peaks, and there's a lot of difference in that area of
different adaptations on these animals. But on a free range white tail in the hill coruntry, Larry, what do you think would be like the average hoof weight of a buck and a dough.
Oh, my gosh, going back and again, it depends so much for the so much management going on. I'm done backer good management in terms of food. But me the average more or less Texas Hill country deer mike on the hoof on a on a buck the one thirty five to you know, probably maybe a little bit more, a little bit less in some areas. Generally a deer like that's gonna field dress one hundred to one hundred and five hundred and ten pounds even figured about thirty pounds,
so maybe a little bit bigger the doze. I would say probably most of the doze in that area will probably weigh somewhere between sixty and seventy pounds on the hoof.
And I tell you what, when you go down into South Texas, it doesn't take long for some of those deer to get quite a bit larger.
You're exactly right. You know, that was around around long time, going backward when years ago we had the web county check stations when we were trying to determine what was going on, and there were times back there that a lot of those bucks that we weighed, they probably would have field dressed one twenty five to one thirty one thirty five. So we're talking about you know, on the hoof when maybe one fifty to one sixty one seventy
maybe at the most. And yet if you look at what's happened today since we've reduced the population somewhat, you know, shot more dose, given some of these bucks too opportunity to grow a little bit, get some age on them, it's not uncommon to for us to take an animal that will field dress buck mature buck that's one seventy five to one.
Eighty or better.
Wow. What's interesting about all this is there's a natural rule called Bergman's rule that within any species starting south and going north, the farther north you go, the larger the bodies are. And that simply has to do with being able to get rid of heat or to retain warmth, you know, as you go farther north. And of course that's one of the reasons you have the you get it into Canada, and in some of those areas it's you know, you shot a buckets weighs less than two
hundred pounds field dressed. You know, they go, oh, you shot a baby kind of thing.
Yeah, with Alberta in place like that.
Yes, sure, exactly. But again here in Texas, with the management that we've done, going back and looking at the deer herd maybe from the nineteen seventies to as a whole across the state of Texas, we've put a lot of pounds on the end of visual animals over the years simply because of the fact of the nutrition available
to them. And a lot of these places now back well back then, a lot of the we had the sheep and goat all over the central part of the state of Texas, and they were competing with the white tail there and when they did away with the sheep and woolair, mohair and sentive. A few years ago, a lot of those folks that were previously sheep and goat ranchers went back to running cattle, and so all of a sudden, there was a whole lot more food available.
And so we've really kind of increased the overall size just in the last several years, just through good management and making nutrition available on a daily basis throughout the year.
Yeah, and that's a great point, because that lifts that management that hunters and hunter conservationists and ranchers put on the ground not only lifts the health of the white tail, but every other critter out there as well.
You know, you're exactly right, And that's the point that's so very often just simply overlooked that I've been involved with management programs for everything from desert big horn sheep. I know you're doing a bunch of things with desert big horns now and with mew deer and whitetails, turkeys, quail,
you know, all the different game species. But one of the things that I was able to do over the years, particularly years ago, is when I got called in to make recommendations, I would do a baseline on what vegetation was on that property and potentially what animals I could find there, and then we set up a good management program that dealt with everything from the ground on up, including the livestock operation, including the hunting operation, habitat improvements,
and all those kinds of things. And as we try to improve the habitat to create a healthy herd of white tailed deer or flock of turkeys or coves of quail or whatever, one of the things that we found is that we greatly increase the diversity of the plant that we're there. And in process of that, oh, guess what, all of a sudden, now we start having all kinds of little bu ugs and grasshoppers and more ground more songbirds.
As a lot of times, when we set up these management programs for quote unquote targeted game species, they'll benefit a little habitat benefits tremendously and as a result, all the other wildlife that's there. And that concludes if you want to include all the little grounds in inks and linards and snakes and frogs and toads, and you know, you ground squirrelds, and you name the species or even you know, some of the almost microscopic things that live
in the soil. Because we've increased it, everything does better. And so it's one of the main reasons to me that that hunting is so very important. I made a statement not too long ago that conservation promotes life. Preservation kills when you try to preserve something, you're trying to preserve generally, well, let's preserve the real Grand Prairie. You know, if we do that, we're going to have a limited
number of species plant and animal. Now, if we conserve, which means the wise use of you know, we're going to create some diversity. And when we do that again, there'll be more different species of plants there and more wildlife. And that includes everything from insects to merge to reptiles, to amphibians to fish, you know, the terrestrial of the wildlife kind of thing.
You know.
You know a lot of people like we have marsh fires here are controlled burning in this part of the world is a marsh fire. Everyone's used to it, but most people don't know what that's about. You know, someone who waterfowl hunts, you know, when they when they clear that underbush and those exotic invasive exotics and things, and you get this wonderful wintering opportunities for all the wildlife out there when those waterfowl migrate down here are native
model ducks and things like that. And I was doing some turkey hunting about five years ago and up in East Texas and Sabbin National Forests, and they regularly do control burns to manage for turkeys. The only area, Larry, I've ever seen red cock heated woodpeckers which are federally endangered species, or on stands of timber controlled burns for East Eastern turkeys.
It's amazing how that works. I've seen the same thing. I may have seen some of them, but it was right on the edge of yep. Yeah, I mean they may not been in the exact burn, but they were not two hundred yards off the burned area kind of thing exactly right. Fire. You know, Texas evolved with fire, and when you get right back down to it, and a lot of the areas that previously now are covered with brush and all that kind of thing, and Texas
we're basically grasslands. Well, the indigenous people they if lightning didn't strike and burn down the old grass that was there, they found a way to create their own fires, Well, that only put nutrients back into the soul kind of thing.
When we come back, we'll wrap up our conversation with mister whitetail Larry Wyzoom. Welcome back to More Outdoors on News Talk five sixty k l v I catched the podcast of this program at KLVI dot com or on the iHeartRadio app continding our conversation with Larry Wayzoom.
But it also then created new fresh growth, and those buffalo herds and you know and other animal pronghorn, antelope, whatever with they would come to those areas, and so they kind of used that fire to kind of, you look at it in a different kind of way. They used it to create food plots for the animals that they needed to survive.
I just lost you, Yeah, I got you there. Okay.
So that makes you know, that makes perfect sense, and it's great. You know that fire is a natural part
of the ecosystem. But that just goes back to, like, you know, I became someone interested in wildlife conservation because I was obsessed with wildlife from birth, and I grew up hunting and fishing, and I have a little stream by my household, would call it the gully, and there was a factory that would dump dies into the bayou, and I was told I remember going fishing there one time, was a kid, and the water was like you've heard of black water. No, I mean it was like the pits of.
Hell, black like, and it was.
Purple one time, and I knew that I couldn't need a fish that don't ever you can fish down there, but don't ever bring a fish on to clean from there. And then I learned, you know, in deer hunting and things like that. I remember going out to go deer hunting and my dad teaching me the principles of like, Okay, at the time, there weren't a lot of deer any sections, so you weren't harvesting as many doughs, you know. And then we went to the hill country, it was like, no,
we got dough tags here. Back in they do tagged the landowner would give you because I need to control it. So I understood through the hunting and fishing thing that wow, if we do the right thing and use the space wisely, wildlife benefits.
So it was because of hunting and fishing that I wanted to get into conservation.
To me, the true conservationists out there are the hunters and the fishermen. You know, not only in terms of what they actually do in terms of the physical doing, but also, as you well know, in terms of the financing of conservations. Hunters and fishermen pay for conservation primarily through well, on the hunting side, through the Pittman Robertson Act, which I think was established in nineteen thirty seven, and then the Dingle Johnson covers the fish You're right, that
covers the fishing side of thing. I think was just a few years after that. So that's how conservation is really paid for. It is through the sale of sporting equipment and then of course through the licening of hunters and fishermen.
Absolutely, you have a long standing association with a great conservation center group hunter conservation group.
The Dallas Safari Club.
Can you tell them a little bit about some of the things that the Dallas Safari Club, because I know they've done things with everything from supporting desert big Horn conservation in West Texas to anti.
Poaching patrols in Africa.
Can you give me a little bit about maybe some of the things dallasa Fari Club has done to help conservation.
DSc was established back in about nineteen eighty two, and I was very fortunate to have been involved in some form of fascists in nineteen eighty seven. It is a conservation organizations whose three legs are conservation, education and hunter advocacy, and they've been involved in so many different programs, and of course in recent times we've had the DSc Foundation,
which is kind of the granting arm of DSc. Prior to that, DSc would provide grants, but once we established the DSc Foundation, it became more important, if you will, in some ways of being able to provide moneies to different projects, not only here in North America, but as
across the entire world world. If you will, dollars that are issued by d SC and by DSc Foundation, those projects are extremely vetted to determine to make certain that those dollars actually go to what they're supposed to do, rather than in somebody's pockets, as is so often the case with some of the other if you will, anti hunting groups and the things that the d s C
has done. In d s C Foundation, we've funded projects as you mentioned with Desert Big Horn Sheep and help them provide water in certain areas we've dealt with the desert with the Mutier Foundation and helping them creating quarters, even in terms of purchasing land in We've funded numerous projects as well in Africa dealing with leopards, trying to determine what the real status of the leopards are. Same thing with oh my gosh, with elephants, with different species, rhinos,
those kinds of things. We've We've had projects going on and Europe that dealt with UH UH things such as road deer, vallader and red stags. There's projects in Asia that have been supported in terms of UH some of the work there with the Dark Galley Sheep and UH,
the UH, the IBEX and things like that. But here in North America too we have done so very much with like the Rocky Elk Rocky Rocky Mount Elk Foundation UH with some of the guides and outputters associations that are involved in in UH OH in different research projects with species within their own province if you will earn their own state. And we've provided old dollars for UH all supporting the education of different groups such as that
we do here in Texas. We provided money to the Texas Brigades, which is done well here in Texas, So it's a continually ongoing thing. You know. To me, there's all kinds of great conservation organizations, but I've had an opportunity to work with all of them, and to me, there's none that equals DSc or the DSc Foundation. They do so many different things for which they never get
credited for. Other organizations will go we did so, so, we did so and so, and yeah, maybe you showed up for a hearing, but you weren't the one who actually got the work done kind of thing. But with DSc, it's not about the recognition. It's about getting the work done and making sure that you know there's going to be wildlife and wilelife opportunities in the future, not just right now. And I'll also say that it's kyleed Dallas Safari Club. Well, Safari is nothing more than a Swahili
term for an adventure or walk about. And you do not have to be a Safari hunter. If you will somebody that goes to Africa to be a member. A matter of fact of our membership, I say there's a relatively small portion of people who actually go on Safari if you will, they have all kinds going fari quite often. My next safari is for black bear up in Alberta, after which my safari will be for stright bashed Texaman and shortly after that a safari in Northeast Texas for bluegills.
I love it bluegill safari. I'm down.
I'm leaving after I interview you for a bluegill safari in Orange County with my fly.
Rod so and that's right, and I'll bring that up. I love it being being Dallasafari Club members Rick Lambert, who happens to be the dad of Miranda Lambert and the entertainer, and Jim Zumbo who people know for many years from years about or Lafe. Three of us. Every opportuney we get together, we try to go on on anything I'm to do with hunting at fishing, and knowing that mister zumbo favorite species in all the world is
blue gill. I found a very good bluegill pond and uh, he's rather good at fishing, he's really good at at but he's also one of these guys who realizes that we have got to maintain a certain population within a pond, and so we got to take a lot of fish out, so he likes to fish those places where we have to remove with much of fish because his term for catching release is catching release and hot butter kind of things.
I dig it sometimes looks sometimes like I tell people when I go crappie fish.
Crappy is my favorite thing to catch.
And I tell people, look conservation, all the wise use of a resource. And I'm going to use every legal size crappie that I catch today to feed my family.
I'm just letting you know that part.
So absolutely getting back to DSc. I'm not sure when when this will ara, but June the twenty second, we have our I think this will be the fourth annual DSc Foundation Gala being held at the Sheridan Hotel there in Dallas. We've got it's basically a fundraiser and an opportunity to bring people together. We've got some of the finest hunts from all over the world, finance fishing trips and those can you don't have to be present a
bed on them. With with the new on hunting online auction things, you know you can be anywhere in the world. If you can't attend, we'd love for you to have a look at what we have available and to be
a bitter there. And you know, if you want to learn more about what's going on there with the foundation, they can go to www dot d s C F dot O r G and learn more about the things that d s C does both here in North America and abroad and how d s C truly is important for the conservation of all widlife species here in North America across the world. They can go to their website as well, which is www dot b I G G A m E dot O r G SO Big Game dot org.
Thanks for listening to the program. Great interview with Larry Wazoom. Follow me at Higher Calling dot net or my new blog at Gulf Great Whites dot com at d chestermorn Instagram, God bless and have a great outdoors weekend.