Our Father, The Sniper [bonus]

emotional stability. We we have friends, we have family night. My my mom. She would record so much home videos. Even if we don't even remember, we have videos where it shows that we had a great bond with each other and that we were loved, We were comforted. He was like great dad, goofy. There were silly times, and even in the silly times, there was still loving it

and hope you know everything, beautiful lady An. I'm Tony Harris on this bonus episode of Monster d C Sniper my conversation with Selena and Taliba, the daughters of John and Mildria Mohammed. Selena and Taliba both live in Maryland outside d C. I spoke with him over zoom I want to take a half a step back, and I'm going to have each of you introduce yourself, right, I want you to tell me your name, and then just

describe yourself and your own words. I'm Taliva. I would say that I'm bubbily, I'm goofy, but also enjoy being very stubborn and also um lively. I am Selena, and I am very direct. What you see is what you get. I am the type of person that does not like to judge the other person, and it's very open to helping anybody that I can. Selena and Taliba, along with their older brother, John Jr. Were born in the early nineties while their father was still serving in the army.

Selena is the middle child. She's now eight, Taliba is six. They spent most of their early childhood in Washington State. So I've got two kids that I I love, you know, to the ends of the earth. And you know I'm not with their mom, who is an amazing woman. Right. I want to understand from your perspective how you would describe life in the Williams slash Mohammed household growing up. Oh, it was a ball. We had the time of our lives when we were young. I mean like sight seeing

the carnival Um. It was great. Yeah. We also with our neighborhood friends too. Don't let us snow we're having snow fights or having we're building snowman. It was he was. He was everything that you could picture a father to be with. What are dad was to us. He was not some monster. He was not anything that the media portrays. He couldn't feel the load that he had for his children when you saw him. Even when he was disciplining us, it wasn't it wasn't negative towards uh, like the next

week or so like. He would counter it with positivity and fun and just a lesson to be learned. They never suspected anything was wrong in March of two thousand, when John picked them up from their elementary school, drove them to the airport and flew them to Antigua. Selena

was ten and Taliba was eight. They still don't feel comfortable speaking publicly about this period of their life, about what happened in Antigua or their relationship with Lee Boyd Malvo, But in August two thousand one, authorities found them living with their father and a homeless shelter in Bellingham, Washington. They were then reunited with their mother, Mildred, who brought them to Maryland, where they once again started a new life.

Despite this instability in their childhood, Selena and Taliba say that most of the memories they had of their father were positive. Mildred had sheltered them from John's frightening behaviors, and they were too young to realize how unusual their situation was. But the turbulence wasn't over. A little over a year later, when Taliba was ten and Selena was twelve,

the d C sniper attacks began in Maryland. I remember a time where I was walking home from school and I was looking for the white box jut and I was looking around and I just remember just booking it. I just remember just taking off ning straight to home because that scared t acting was also in us too, and their lives were flipped upside down again when their father and Lee Boyd Melville were arrested and named the

DC Snipers. When we found out that our dad was the one that was gonna be named the sniper, and we cried from the time FBI knock on our door and told us to the time that they showed it on the news. We were moving that entire time, like hours. We were We packed stuff, we got in a car, we got driven to a hotel. We had to figure everything out. Taliba and Selena were shocked by their father's arrest, but before they could even process the situation, their family

was thrust into the spotlight. We had to get put out of school. Media was starting to show up at our middle school and we couldn't get in the building. So and just and just for our our safety, um, and that time, thankfully, our principal at the time completely understood and my mom, Um, I'm not too sure the interaction, but they were it was a mutual understanding, quick understanding

of just taking us out. Eventually, reporters stopped showing up to their middle school and the girls returned and trying to get back to some sense of normalcy. Life at that age can be challenging at the best of times, let alone with your father as public enemy number one. With our interactions in school during the time, we've lost

a lot of friends. There was a lot of um speculations that we were gonna do what he did, or we're going to finish the job, to finish the job, or or um or we're gonna be a duo at it, or you know, just extremely negative feedback that that we don't need to hear at the end of the day. But they didn't care because, you know, children will be

children and we were just in that age group. So their mother, Mildred, said, she struggled to find a therapist they could afford who wasn't just trying to cash in on the publicity and sell the children's story to the press. So Mildred went to the library and picked up a book on counseling. She started helping the children herself. Selena and to Leiva credit their mother with helping to get them through that rough patch. One of her main tools in her life is optimism, and that's what really helped

us in our healing. The fact that there is always and no matter what type of negativity that comes up, there's always a positive aspect that you're not thinking about, that you're not focusing your mind on, and the sooner you do, the better off you'll be serious no way around that. So she was pivotal for our personal growth,

our emotional stability, our spiritual development. My mom is amazing a lot of that appreciation for our mom is for her pushing us to make sure that we don't get swallowed up by the media, by negative energy that people tell us, by other things that happened throughout our life that could potentially be that last thing that an average person would need to go through to say, you know what, I'm over this life, like I'm just not gonna do it anymore. We didn't have that opportunity, and because we

didn't have that opportunity, we only see up. We don't see down, we don't see the past. We see up,

like how far can we go? Regardless of our situation, Because regardless of the things that me, my sister, and my brother have been through, there are a lot of people out here who have gone through something much worse or much less, and it is their choice, and it is our choice to decide whether we want to let this specific situation dictate and outline the rest of our life, or do we want to address the situation, conquer all of the feelings that we have, and develop that and

restructure that into doing something positive for our life, And we choose positivity always. Have you thought about the question of why you two clearly strong, clearly well spoken women. Have you given any thought to why you too, as sisters, as individuals have been placed in this story. Hm Um. We are God fearing women period, and there is nothing that we cannot handle or anything that is too big

for our lives. If we were not supposed to be in the place that we were put in, God would have never put us there, And it is that simple. He would have never given our family the opportunity to show him that we can come out of is stronger than the way that we went in. So it was not by coincidence. It was already written. We just didn't know it. It was already written. All of our lives are already written the way that they're supposed to be.

There is no questioning God. We've never questioned him before and we're not going to start now that there There is no why us, Why did you put us in this situation? Because you have to understand that it's beyond us. It is it's always beyond us. God saw us fit to go through what he wanted us to go through, to be better people, right to be stronger vessels, to be better vessels, So why not use us? What are we here for in the first place? If it's not

to be used by God. All right, I get all of that, but there is no denying that you went through some difficult days. And it feels to me that in the moments that you're able to really communicate with God higher power. One of the ways we generally do that is we go through a really difficult patch and we say something along the lines of God, I really

need you now. And I wonder about a day, a moment that you think about in this journey that represents a really difficult day, when you maybe say to God, thank you for getting me through that. I would say that those definitely do pop up in our heads, and it will be wrong for me to say that they don't.

The night of the execution that pops up in my head periodically and thinking on my future self, how he he won't be walking me down the aisle, and how he wasn't going to be able to see my prom dress, how he wasn't a part of the goodbye team when I went away to college. Those times pop up for me periodically, so I am I am going to have negative days where I'm just like Nope, I don't want to talk to nobody, and and those those definitely do exist. Example,

his birthday or my birthday. As Selena and Taliba grew up, they struggled and still struggled to reconcile the happy memories of their father from childhood with the horrific crimes he committed. Unlike their mother, Mildred, who was an adult at the time and who had seen the start of John's descent, Selena and Taliba had been separated from their father during the period of childhood when most of us still idealize our parents. So when they learned their father was the

d C Sniper, they were completely blindsided. When you're coming from a position of being a child, right, when you're coming from a position of being nine years old, and all you've known is my dad adds this type of way because I'm a child, that when you see him on TV, it's like, well, my that's that's I don't know what they're talking about, because my dad was consistent, consistent in system of right and was doing all of

the things that he was supposed to be doing. They don't try to justify or excuse their father's crimes, but they do chafe against what they consider inaccurate portrayals of their father in the media. We don't resent our father. The way that he was portrayed on the news is not the man that we grew up with, and for us to resent him would mean that we would dismiss our childhood with him, and that's not something that we're willing to do or something that we want to do.

You know, there is a there is a media representation of your your family story, right what is the narrative first of all? And then for you too, what's the most egregious part of that narrative? So I believe that the narrative right now is the fact that he was a monster, the fact that he didn't have a loving life. You later, he didn't have any motive. He was just shooting people. He just went crazy. It has nothing to do with anything like that. My dad was smart and

the actions that he took. He knew what the outcomes were going to be. Now, that does not necessarily say that he is a monster, because he's not. These characteristics that people have labeled my father to be are from the outside looking in and not actually knowing who my dad was and actually knowing the type of person that he was. Selena's words echo to sentiment we heard from criminologist Anthony Meoli that as a society, we want to call these killers monsters. We want to separate them from

the rest of humanity. Just labeled them it's purely evil, but the truth is often more complicated. Selena and Taliba say that although their father was capable of these attacks, capable of terrorizing their mother, he was also capable of being a loving father. We want to be able to shift the narrative to where we can express that our dad wasn't amazing, that him as a man individually is

different than who we experienced. You know how in a when you're going through a hard relationship with somebody or a significant other and it's a it's just a bad time, and all that you could think about is the bad, how they're hurting me, why did they yell in a certain way, or they didn't have to hang up like that? Right? And then when all that is done, when you have broken up or when you've separated, all you can think

about is the good. And I feel that is where our thought process is not necessarily saying that we think about the bad, but they're still good balance that we can counter that with, because of our childhood, because of our own experiences that we've had with him, So it will be wrong to say that we don't miss him, because we miss him so much. But at the same time, we accept why he isn't here, we accept where we are in that time, and it's a blessing that we

are so close as a family. My mom also instilled in us to not feel like we are obligated to give an apology for his actions, because his actions are his actions. Um at the same time, we never stop praying for the victims and the survivors and the families. We have full empathy for everything that that has taken place in that time, and we're not insensitive as far as what their journey is now even after. But at the same time, taking ownership that would not be appropriate.

What we can say that we will continue to pray for the victims of the survivors and that they have a special place in our hearts. For sure, Selena and Taliba feel that they have been portrayed inaccurately by the media as well, with coverage forgetting how young they were when all this happened, or treating them like irreparably damaged goods about of reshaping our narrative is to redefine who

his children was. There were so many unrealistic mindsets about how we were coping through it, and by taking a step back and understanding the time that it happened, and then matching the ages and the mentality mentality in that era and then saying, oh, okay, well, they were under ten years old, so I kind of don't really know a lot of what happened. So it's important that that's spoken, that that that we were youth and at the same time, my mom didn't shield anything away from us because she

wanted us to live a life of truth. We want to shift that we are empowered, that were loved, that we are stable, that we are okay, and that not only are we okay, but we work hard. We don't use that situation as an excuse for progression. We choose to to not to make this the crutch for us to not be better women. We don't use it for anything outside of explaining our life story. And also it

helps us to be inspired musically. Throughout the whole ordeal, Selena and Taliba found solace in music, listening to it, performing it, even writing their own songs. What's helped us is talking it out, writing it out, singing it out, looking up songs that lyrically tie into those struggles. Those songs and those lyrics help for our outlet. Music really has helped us. When no human can say words, chords can really do it, or instrument can really do it, or Kenny G can really do it. You know, you

don't have to be verbally, can be non vocal. But we wanted to change the narrative for ourselves musically. So now let me ask this question. Tell me why you wrote scramble. Did you write this or did I write this? I wrote scramble. Make mistakes. I'm ben't making two. It's a part of the game. But who's ready to lose web? We're we're moving what we're doing. We gotta get back to the first stage. But thanks for reading on the first page. Well we're going, Hi, we're moving what we're doing.

When you push me back, I can't ignore. I'll be relationship is on the floor. Poo's will then to pick it up. I'm tooling. Thanks for you, so I take care of you. Nothing never turn miss me with that bullshit about you called your side one ain't stupid. I'm taking out my gun. Okay, So we have this thing where Talibo will start us all and then like a week later she'll call me and she'll say, can you help me write the second birse? So I'm like, well,

what did you have in the first place? And so she'll sing it and I'm like, all right, give me like five minutes figure nothing out. Where my head was. I was in a relationship and it was very confusing as far as his intentions and where I wanted it to go, and I just was fed up. So I got those lyrics out. I journal. I wanted to be able to confront those emotions head on. I also think that the song gives the listener of the opportunity to not be afraid to ask those questions where are we going?

What are we doing? Those There are questions that a lot of people shy away from because they don't want to hear the answer, And so Scramble was made for the listener to put your pants on, evaluate your situation and actually questions, because if you don't, then you're gonna be step in our relationship where you're not happy. And this life you only get to live at once, and you don't want to waste five, ten, fifteen, years of your life in a marriage, in a relationship is not healthy,

you know. So that's how Scramble came to the world. What we do, We gotta get back to the first but the first path. But Scramble has darker undertones as well, like its reference to an affair and getting a gun. So the verse escalated from the observation to me being completely fed up. So now I'm violent like the air level their level. But that's real because in real relationships, in those defining moments, in those relationships, your mind can

get there, your mind can scramble in that way. It's easy to imagine how their family story has influenced the song's themes, with its lyrics about how love can scramble our brain and even make us violent, and about the fear of getting stuck in an unhappy and unhealthy relationship for years. Tell me about when you had to decide how much of your journey together you were willing to share in your music. It's a very good question for

me and my sister. The things that we've been through and the things that we've gone through have shaped the way that we see the world. But we are still picking and choosing what we want to put into our music. It's a lot of emotions and a lot of time and a lot of thinking that we put into our songwriting when it comes to the things that we've been through. When did this desire to play to sing? When did

music become a part of your life? It became a part of our lives when we were little, um, when like six seven, mom heard something in us and we always found it to be a hobby. But she's like, not a hobby. So she just plugged us in two choirs and then the choir directors were like, they can take this seriously. Then plugged us into perform at art schools. That's where we both went, and then just transitioned from there to gaining scholarships to take it to college, so

we have degrees and voice performance. You mentioned that your mom at some point said it's not hobby, right, it's a thing, It's not hobby. So I guess what does that say about your mom? What kind of a person is your mom? How do you destroy her? I wish folks could see the video right now, and we're recording as we're a podcast, but I wish they could see your faces and how broad these smiles are. To the beast,

that beautiful stallion spirit. She's a beast. She she goes above and beyond for her children, which brings tears to my eyes. But we're just gonna We're gonna keep pushing through my mom um. My mom is amazing and and she is a role model to how I want to be as a woman and a mother. She has turned out so many opportunities. She's she's made extra time to where that we are all individually okay, and then collectively. She's a one. She's never stopped. She's just never stopped.

She never stopped. So it's it's a blessing. It's a blessing every single day that we still have her and that we can embrace her. Now in their late twenties, Selena and Taliba have had some time to look back and reflect on their experience. Although this is a part of our story, this is not our story, and it's important that there are other purposes, there are other stories

that we will be a part of. This was just one that started off the endless of the stories that are going to come in the future, So it's imperative that we keep pushing forward and reflect of course too, because there was so much going on while we were still in school, while we were still trying to establish friendships and maintain our grades at the same time, it was a lot trusting in the unknown. It's really hard. And UM, in that time, it was a lot of confusion.

It was a lot of tension and anxiety. But I would tell my younger self to not be afraid of where my life is going to go. This is not the end, this is only the beginning. This is only um what's going to make us stronger. And also UM, I would tell my younger self to lean all my sister a little more before college. We were we were at differences, so I would say Selena her more. Like many siblings, the two sisters fought as children, but discovered a close bond later in life. In their case, when

they were both going to college in Cleveland. I was fortunate enough to have my sister thirty minutes away from me, and I was going through so much and just trying to figure out what am I doing and how how can I operate in the city alone. And I was

crying and being my dramatic self as I am. And she's very compassionate, and that's one thing that I really love about our sisterhood, specifically Selena is because I can be so in my head, especially in that time where I didn't know what I was doing, and she would know when it's time to give me tough love, and she would know when it's time for me to just vent, and she doesn't have to say anything because I'm that dramatic, and she just knows those different switches for when it's

time to be a sister, when it's time to be a friend, when it's time to be a music partner, when it's time to be my second mom, especially with me being the youngest, so that that that also is a very important element and sister YouTube your sisterhood. I can't even imagine the levels at which you connect as

sisters who have shared an incomprehensible journey together. I really appreciate you respecting our boundaries and really appreciating where we are now and taking that time and giving us this platform to to just have a conversation about it and to give us the opportunity to just speak the way that we want to with freedom, with freedom, and even if we don't feel like talking about something that you guys don't shun us, right that it's like, Okay, it's fine,

we do move on. That's something that a lot of people that record shows don't have or don't give UM because because they always have it they do. It's a if they give it or not. And so we want to take this time out to say thank you guys for UM including us in this special and for giving us this platform to speak. That's it for this bonus episode.

I wanted to text Mildred immediately after the interview to tell her how much I enjoyed my conversation with her daughters, but I gave myself a data process everything i'd heard. Taliba and Selena are both sides of the Mildred Mohammed coin.

Taliba reflects Mildred's easy smile and sense of humor. Selena reflects Mildred's toughness and sheer strang Together, these two women have a lot to say about overcoming life's difficulties, and through their music, they demonstrate the importance of finding a way to express yourself and exactly the way you want to do it. Judgment be damned. When I finally texted Mildred, I wrote, Wow, your girls are amazing. She responded with yes,

they are Thank you. If you'd like to hear more of Selena and Taliba's music, search for two music that's t O and then music. The songs Scramble that we played in this episode is from their two thousand eighteen album To Who, Thanks for listening.