Am I Adulting Right: Can I get rich being a content creator?

You're listening to a CNA podcast. If we're honest, every single one of us would admit to following a social media influencer online. They may be a funny personality who does bad impressions, an impossibly thin model who flies business class with her pet pooch or someone who tells her fellow mummies how to eat whatever you want and still stay slim, love them or loathe them. They are part of what

got started when I was in high school. 10 years. Oh gosh, 12 years ago when I lived in Vietnam. So I actually lived in Cambodia first for five years and then Vietnam for six years. So we started around 2010 and the, the first video was actually a school project video. And our job was to create an anti-bullying video. Then we picked up some skills and then me and my friends thought, hey, actually we could make this a thing.

you think that creating videos would propel you into starting your own multichannel network? You've got so many followers online, you also manage other content creators. Did you ever think that starting a youtube channel making videos would set you on that path?

It initially wasn't the plan at the start, I just, my dream was just to not work for anyone.

Ok. Well, I mean, it seems to have come true for you because you don't work for anyone. You work

for yourself. It took me a few years to realize that there's no such thing as not working for anyone that you will always be accountable for people in the end. I, I work for work for more people.

Ok, Debbie. Did you always want to be a content creator? I think in the

beginning. No. Um oh, I'm not done with my story after, after high school, I started the agency and then we brought in a few creators under the network. And when Debbie and I first got together, I always knew Debbie had what it takes to be a content creator. I east her in slowly and then um everything just naturally happened.

I want to know about getting started and, and whether this was actually part of your career plan to become a content creator and make that like a full time job. Oh, definitely.

It was never in my plans and I'm, I'm not a person that plans very, very fine to the future. And I took it one step at a time. I mean, when we first met, when we fell in love, it was just me going to school and stuff and we started the cafe business when I was in school. So at that point of time, I was helping to manage the cafe. And then slowly, slowly, we just eased

followers. So which point did you find that? Hey, actually, I can make this into a job that brings me an income?

I think when their clients started coming in, when the brand start working with

her for you, when did you realize that this could be a job? Maybe when you started to see money clients? Even when

I first started seeing money come in, I wasn't sure what the industry will be like, how long I will be here for because the typical shelf life for an influencer or content creator is around four years. So that's

very interesting. I want to actually hear more about that when you say shelf life, meaning

meaning after four years, they kind of either drop off or they no longer be relevant or someone in the same field becomes newer and they come in with more skills or something fresher. So

how do you drop off? Do you get less sponsorships? Do brands start to not want to work with you as much?

I think it's the same like a product life cycle for any brand that brings in a product or like shampoo or something. They always still have to refresh their product or do a rebrand or just the same as content creators, they have to stay relevant, reinvent themselves. And it's quite rare to see content creators remain at the top level for a very long time. No, no, no, no.

Very supportive.

Yes, she's very supportive. But generally they are so jaded from content creation that they, they usually take a break and find something else. Or um it could even be on the upside where you leverage on your influence to build something bigger than just being an influencer. And then you realize that is the path that you want to go. So that being a content creator is often a stepping stone to something else. But at the same time, it could be your main career if you put your heart and soul

into it. So you make plenty of good points. I actually want to follow up on some of them. For some, it is a stepping stone to something bigger, but for others, it is the end goal I think for some people who want to convert influencing as their part time hustle into a full time career. Have you seen examples of people who are like that? And

we manage a lot of influences. So, so we've seen all kinds of influences and there are the kinds that doing content while they are studying, they are the ones who quit school to do it full time. There are also people who work and do content creation on the site. So there's all, all of the different types of influences I would say.

So how does one get into making a full time career out of content creation?

I think it comes down to what they plan to achieve. It's easy for youths or people to say they want to be a content creator. But what does that actually mean? Does that just mean that they want to be famous or does that mean that they don't want to work for someone or does it mean that they just want to take pictures and look nice travel? It's because it does seem like a

plan. Another thing you said earlier was that some people use a leverage on their positions as a content creator influencer to, you know, start businesses and sort of that extends their shelf life. So I know you have a jewelry business. Is this something that's right. Um This is a path that you took, talk about how you were able to extend shelf life or this was starting your own own jewelry business. Part of your long term plan as an influencer because bear in mind what said some people

never stepped in meeting him wanting to become a content creator. It happened along the way, but ever since I was young, I knew I wanted to start my own business. Um So before I started, so I actually run a dog bakery called the Wolf Bakery. So I was baking doggie cakes from home and I really enjoyed that. But I realized there was a little bit of limitations when it comes to baking cakes by myself because it was very difficult. We were traveling a lot. At that point of time, we had a lot of

starting your jewelry brand was born from your passion as when you were younger to eventually run your own business. Do you find that it is something that influences content creators these days are actually pivoting to especially those that are much older, you know, in order to extend their shelf life, so to speak.

Yeah, definitely. It's, it's a pattern we see because to follow and influences brand, it's very exciting as an audience to understand their journey, to follow them for a long time and then to see them launch a brand, a business. Um You just want to support them. I think they feel like it's very personal and they were part of the entire journey, building the business together with you and watching it grow. I think they feel like

So this podcast, right? We talk a lot about finance, financial advice, personal finances for someone who is intending to become a full time content creator. How do you make sure that this is a lucrative career? How do you work with brands, negotiate payment, that sort of thing because you are your own boss at the end of the day,

right? Yes, you are however, not all creators are entrepreneurs or should be. So a lot of them are. No, it's true. Some are amazing and so talented in the view of content creation, in video making in photos, in articulating their words, in podcast, stuff like this, right? You have, you see a lot of these, but how many of them actually have the business skills are? Exactly.

So how do you convert that into a

um So for people like this to earn money, my suggestion for them would be to work closely with an agency that they trust for me. 10 years ago when I first started, I actually signed to an agency. And through that, it gave me the chance to create and focus on creating. While at the same time, I have a manager representing me and a good company who negotiates for me

as a content creator yourself. And you also manage other content creators. I think I want to ask this question, how much can you realistically expect to make? How much does a content creator make?

I think it can range from anywhere from like zero millions. Like if you the top creators in the world, Mr be Logan Paul K si they are earning such big bucks. Even Ryan's world who just does toys, toy

reviews. What about in Singapore? Don't compare with the US guys because there is also a much bigger market there. How much are content creators making? For example, one tiktok post one Instagram post one Instagram story. How many a month do you do then at the end of the day? How much do you make in a year?

It can really range from 00 to anything I would say millions

even in Singapore. Why not? How much could we realistically expect to pay for one Instagram post for someone who is quite well known in the creator scene?

Maybe 2 to 10,000. If you if you are working a brand, if you're a smaller influencer, the budget will of course be a little bit smaller and then they will. But the three of you for example, um they will, they will send you some of their product and hope that you can post about it. And then on the more macro influencer side, then the fee tends to get a little bit higher and it can range up to five digits.

And that's just for one post. How many requests for post do you get a month? For example, me in general it doesn't have to be you. But how about the people that you manage? Maybe 34 requests for posts? Yeah,

3 to 4 is reasonable. If they work harder, it would be more, for example, it will be less.

So how many, what's the most you've seen

the most? I've seen? 0 to 10, 0 to 10 is 10 a

month possible 10 Instagram posts a month.

Yeah, there are also like IG stories, I GREs tiktok, different platforms also that your brain can share appearing in videos.

So on. How many sort of engagements on average do you see a month? So this can be um your Instagram post, your reals, plus your tiktok videos and appearing youtube videos. How many you know these sort of engagements do you see in a month back then? 10 is the average

10 would be a good number if you want to take up the job, I'm sure there is a formula to calculate the comfort of a content creator on on. I think everybody has a different equation. Some may do it for you know, literally nothing for just free products and like, yeah, yeah, until they, until they see that it's a sustainable career and some will reject all the free stuff and only demand money. Everyone is different.

OK? So you're saying it doesn't matter how many you have at the end of the day, how many followers you have at the end of the day, it's

not the only metric. There are multiple consideration factors that come into play and followers are just one of them. Followers, oftentimes also just give credibility to the influencer like, OK, we know this person has a certain amount of subscribers followers throughout their platforms. We know that um they have built a following over the years, something like that. Then you start to see their engagement and then you see the quality of the content that

And what sets those two influencers apart?

Then? Well, then, then it comes down to um the sources of revenue for the influencer? Like what, what does the influencer encompass? How hard does the influencer work and what is their niche? What is their audience? Let me give you an example. If you are a parents and you look up to a certain parenting influencer, when you go to look for maybe stuff like milk powders, diapers or other other stuff, maybe clothes, you would tend to trust their recommendations. And then if you are a brand,

So developing area.

So if you ask me, followers do not play that much of a part in how much you earn. It's, it's just a range of your audience. But even as an agency, we tend to not segregate influences by their follower number, but through their engagement and their influence,

if I'm interpreting this right, you're trying to say that it depends on the niche area and that particular audience that you are engaging.

So even your niche may be a more lucrative industry. For example, if your niche is in tech, in gaming, in parenting, it could be a lot more than if you were in the business of, I don't know something else

So would you say, would you attribute that to, you know, part of your success as quite a well known influencer? Because we see a lot of them out there, but only very few make it to the top, have big brands that they work with and also have a longer shelf life than most others. So would you say that having a niche? And now that would you attribute that to be part of your success?

Um Yes or no. For me, I focused on the mass audience. So I did not focus on a niche. So the way I grew, my audience was through a mass audience and, and through viral topics that got me quite international and grew a pretty international fan base. And it also helped my standing in the Singapore market

for Debbie. How did you raise your profile as a creator?

I focus a lot on being myself and being a wife, a mom and a business owner. I show different aspects of my life and I to be as real as I can to share like the struggles, the successes. And that's when I feel like I really get to connect with my audience and also build the trust. Yeah, she's very chill just what she wants. Sometimes I have to tell her like that this post is too dark, like shoot it outside. I'm like just let

me post, maybe authenticity is key and it's something that people like to see. Hello everyone. My name is Christina and I'm Adrian and we're the host of a podcast called Work It If you never heard of it. Well, it's a good time to tap in. In the last three episodes. We've discussed topics like how to negotiate for a salary increase or how to get along with younger colleagues who have different values from you.

brands? Join the right agency? I think you have to trust the right agency to represent you first because at this day and age with so many influencers around the world, the market is so saturated, it's also very normal for a brand to not know who to work with. So if you work with an agency that is able to sell you, well, I think that is very important and at the same time, you can focus on your content creation.

What are some common mistakes that people starting out as content creators or influencers make

a lot of them are trying to imitate someone or trying to be someone. And it does take a very long time for youtubers to find their style. Even Mr Bees took ages to finally become who he is today. I myself took maybe 4 to 6 years to truly understand what my style is. So as a youtuber or content creator, I just think it comes down to just doing posting and just getting your work out there until you realize that there's something that works, then just

Debbie from your experience. So what do you think are some misconceptions that come with being a content creator?

Misconceptions? I think a lot of people like, like I said earlier, right? That they think that it's like a very, very straightforward job, but to achieve consistency is not the easiest for you to, you know, think of constant content, how to make it funnier or more engaging it, it's really a struggle. So sometimes your brain really goes like dry and then you have to like chill out, find

which brings me to my next point. How do you plan your finances, your financial goals, your future needs when your income streams, of course, may or may not be so consistent, especially with every month. If you work with a big brand, then you know, of course, the income is more and then some months dr periods,

that's why those who pursue a full time content creation career are risk takers. And for a lot of them, they are willing to live with this, to live with the unknown because they aren't able to forecast their finances. But generally if one takes the step to quit, whatever they are doing to pursue a content creation career, it's highly likely that they have plans and it's, it's very rare to see somebody quit whatever they are doing

for the two of you, you have a little family, you have a daughter. How do you plan your future, your finances? How do you deal with emergency costs for example,

investment building businesses, buying hospital insurance. It is super important for real. Like we experienced that like twice. Unfortunately, when staley was younger, she was hospitalized and I realized, you know, how important it actually is to have a good hospital for real.

Yeah, from your experience and how do you have a fixed income stream because you manage influence from

my company. I draw a salary and then through my work on my branded content, there is another source of revenue. It's two different job scripts and two different revenues. Um So I play a job as a CEO in Titan digital media. And at the same time, I'm also a content creator, just like Debbie, she's the owner of her brand and she's also a content creator.

So another point that you brought up earlier was that, you know, if people don't rejuvenate and update and basically stay relevant, they lose out to younger or newer people on the scene with more followers. What happens also if you age out, if you get too old, is that a thing? No, it's not

anti aging as you grow older, it's in fact easier to have your own niche and to have the credibility and trust of your audience and brands, those who have been in the industry for at least 5 to 10 years. If I were a brand or an agency, I will not be afraid that this person may get into the news for something that may affect our campaign. They are a safer choice and a more credible choice because of the audience and the work they have done over the years that plays a big part

as well. So you're saying that influencers are content creators who have been in this role for longer tend to be more legitimate and it is easier to navigate the space get more. Is that true? Being in the game for longer is easier than those who are starting out. It

is actually not easier than those who are starting out because those who are on the rise, it's very exciting. The brands want to put their names on them. Everyone wants a piece of them. But at the end of the day, it comes down to different strategies as well and understanding the trends of the market and with a more effective marketing strategy for a brand, you would want a more diverse range of influences to work with.

Do you two of you see yourself doing this for a long time

for me? Yes, I would love to do it forever. It does not change over the years, the passion and the creativity in my blood to create videos and to work with content creators. And at this age, I feel like I can also be a mentor to a lot of creators. I'm able to inspire them, I'm able to guide them, I'm able to share with them the mistakes and the shortcomings that I face throughout my last 10 years so that they can

Well, how you think that you know, this creative space will only grow and more people turn to. Yeah. And

and it's also my part to build this creative ecosystem being in my position. Give

us your best financial advice for someone who is a content creator or thinking of being a content creator but is concerned about streams of income losing out to other content creators. You know, the the issue of being competitive in this space and basically planning for their future. My

answer would be a bit biased because I am after all a CEO of a talent agency. However, I really encourage the younger influencers or those who are starting out to look into working with an agency, not like selling your soul to the agency, but just having a good relationship with agencies because at the end of the day, these agencies that will sell you, that eventually have a certain comfort with working with you. And in fact, they will help you plan your finances.

is the dream, right. I'm sure people and look at your car as well and be like, hey, I want to get there. I mean, he worked really, really

hard. Yeah, he deserves it. But a few more, I

have to ask him for his financial advice because everybody would aspire to

my advice would be, don't ask me for advice.

Oh, but you know, this is a perfect example of someone who or rather an example of someone who has in the eyes of many young people out there, made it managed to start his own business, manage other content creators. And so, you know, definitely there will be questions on how I can do that too, how a young or someone else out

there passion, you must work hard, be consistent

and how do you manage your finances,

discipline and how to manage the finances? But should

I be buying my first supercar with? Is this something that you,

I mean, if it, if it makes you happy, if it justifies the work you have done, if you know what, what your priority go for it. I think in life, whether you are a content creator or not, you should just enjoy and be happy. And there's not always an absolute need to follow the traditional way of thinking. Life is already very difficult work can be tough going out with your friends buying something that is a little bit more expensive. It's fun. And if it makes you happy, you know,

misery. That's a wise word. So while many are drawn to the flexibility of working at your own pace and being your own boss and recognize that it is possible to monetize your hobby. It's really not as rosy as it seems, but as we heard, it can be a legitimate career and not just because Oxford Dictionary added the word influencer back in 2022. So how and Debbie thank you so much for coming on the show and thank you to