You know what it is? That's right. It's time to talk money with your money nerd and financial coach. Now tighten those purse strings and open those ears. It's the Money Talk with Tiff podcast. Hey, everyone. I am so excited because I have Ashley Silberfeld on the line, and she's here to talk to us about financial intimacy. Hey, Ashley. How are you? Hi, Tiff. I'm good. How are you? I'm doing pretty good, so let's just jump right on in.
What is financial intimacy if someone's just hearing this term for the first time? Sure. Well, it may sound a little funny coming from me as a divorce lawyer, but it actually makes a lot of sense, because in California, where I practice, financial intimacy is really at the core of a marriage. And it's at the core of California law, in fact, which a lot of people don't know. And what it means is, is to really have an open, honest relationship with your spouse about your financial circumstances.
That means sharing bank accounts. It means sharing information about what your earnings are. It means making sure both parties to the relationship have access to bank statements and credit card statements and retirement accounts and who is the beneficiary of what and who are trustees of what. It's really a full disclosure, open book about the finances in the relationship. Yes, yes, And I completely agree with that. Honestly, you know, every couple is different.
So let me just preface by saying that, however, of course, when I grew up, I grew up with my grandparents, and that's how they do. Did everything. Like, everything was shared. Everybody knew what every, you know, what was going on with everything, and it worked. You know, now I will say because I am a divorce, my previous relationship, it didn't work like that.
However, I know why, and it's because you want to make sure that you're having these conversations early, and then that way you can, you know, evaluate if it's the. The right situation for you. So with that baseline of what financial intimacy is, if somebody's listening right now and they're like, you know what, Ashley? I understand that. I don't know if I'm. I'm not experiencing this. So how would someone tell that their partner is not being financially intimate with them?
Or what are some signs? Yeah, so great question. I think that a few things. One, do you know where your partner keeps their account information? Do you know what banks he or she or they bank at? Do they have a checking account? Do they have a savings account? Do you know those kinds of things? Do you know if what credit cards they use. Do you know what retirement accounts they have? And if you don't know, that's one kind of warning sign.
But the bigger warning sign is if you don't know and you ask and the answer is, none of your business, or, oh, I'll get that to you later, or, oh, I handle that, honey. You know, no need for you to worry about that. That is a definite warning sign. People should know about each other's financial situation, what they have in terms of assets, what they have in terms of income, what the household expenses are, and they should know where that information is kept at all times.
That's crucial to financial intimacy and having, you know, a true, open, honest relationship with someone. Absolutely. I completely agree with that. I mean, I'm glad you added that point about if you ask, because, you know, some people really don't care about the finances, honestly. But if you ask and it's all of those things that Ashley said, I'm like, yeah, that might be a red flag there. What are some other things people should look for?
Well, if you see, let's say, for example, that you know, what your spouse or your partner makes for, you know, their earnings, Right. But you see that you live a lifestyle that is much greater or much less than what you know is coming in the door or what you think is coming in the door, that would be a red flag or at least a yellow flag for me. Like, hey, how are we affording all of this stuff?
If your salary is really X kind of a thing, if you don't have access to a checkbook register, I know most people don't keep those, but, you know, if you don't have passwords to bank accounts, if your name isn't on bank accounts, it's just in the name of your partner, that would be a cautionary sign in my mind, if your partner has you on an allowance.
Believe it or not, some people have relationships now where one person is in charge of the finances and the other person has a bank account in their own names. And on a weekly or on a monthly basis, the spouse who is in control of the finances deposits money into that account, and that's literally their allowance. If that is the kind of situation that is governing a relationship, that would cause me to be concerned.
Now, I want to say, though, that one person handling the finances, if that's how people choose to live their lives and say, okay, you know, I'll handle this part of the relationship in our household, and you handle the finances, that's okay. What is troubling and concerning when it comes to financial intimacy is being in the dark about it.
So if someone wants to handle the situation, the financial situations, that's okay, but the other person needs to know where all the information is and how to get it. Exactly. And I talk to my audience sometimes about having money dates with their spouse. And so that's great. Yes. So, you know, at least once a month, it should be a money date to go over the budget, go over the finances, where we at, where we're going, you know, make sure everything starts to align.
And I feel like that could definitely build financial intimacy. What do you think? I love that idea. I've never heard of that, and I think it's amazing and I'm going to steal it. But I'll give you credit for it. Whenever I talk to my clients about it, because it's so important, it needs to be an ongoing conversation. It does. It's not just, okay, let's, you know, talk about this at the beginning of the relationship and then, you know, we go live our lives. I love the idea of a money date.
I think it's great. Thank you. And honestly. And I don't mind if you steal it. That's fine. But I came up with that because I used to work at a financial firm, so. Investment firm. Sorry. And I saw a few situations where it was female clients, they had no idea what was going on, and then the husband passed away and when. So, like, I've helped people figure out how to pay their mortgage type situations. And I feel like even if you're not involved, still be aware of what's going on.
And I've also seen situations where it went south as well, where they use that as a tool to control, manipulate things like that. So I feel like having those money dates and building that financial intimacy would be really helpful. So we just gave them one way they can build financial intimacy. What are some other ways? Well, I think it's really important that whether it's a money date or not, that there needs to be a conversation where people really speak up about what they need.
And, you know, there's what you want and what you need. And having a conversation about what you need can be really hard for some people. And I think that is really important as a part of one of the blocks of financial intimacy is for people to really express themselves about what they need.
For example, I mean, this is kind of a silly, mundane example, but let's say we have a husband and wife, and husband says to wife, okay, your money for your budget, for groceries this week and for all weeks to come is $100. Okay. And husband has never been to the grocery store for the family of six. Okay. Four kids and two and two adults. And wife goes to the market every week and spends 500, $600 a week. She needs to speak up.
It doesn't work if the one party is saying, this is what you've got to spend, and the other party is saying nothing in terms of, well, that's not even close to covering what we need. That is creating a chasm in the financial instant intimacy. Right. It's creating a hole, a big gaping hole, and then they're not operating congruously with one another anymore. Right. There's this, you know, kind of.
I don't want to say it's a deception, but it's a different set of circumstances that each party in that situation is operating under. And it can get to be like a snowball effect, too, you know, and that's when, you know, I've seen in cases over the years, people start hiding things and, oh, well, I'm going to put this money over here on the side so, you know, in case of a rainy day. And I'm not going to tell him kind of a thing.
So I think that's one thing is to really be honest and express your needs and your family's needs when you're having these conversations. Yes. So true. And I've seen it in action on my side of the, you know, arena where I'm in sessions with couples and, you know, it's like, you know, our first meetings, we put everything out on the table and both. And one of my rules is both people have to be there. I'm not just going to talk to one and not talk to the other. Yeah, that would be a red flag.
Exactly. And I am not here to perpetuate those red flags. So I need both of you all in every single meeting. And what happens sometimes where I've seen is that, you know, someone has a property back home that they didn't tell their spouse about because they think, you know, the spouse would have disagreed, or they're like, oh, I didn't know you had that much debt, or I didn't know you made that much money, you know, and it becomes a little awkward.
But I'm glad that I'm there to be the kind of mediator in those situations because, you know, some, in my opinion, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like money is a major divorce factor. You know, when people start considering divorce and I can see how it happens because on my side, I'm in there. And I mean, they're butt and heads about everything as a result of the money situation. So correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel like that's one of the biggest drivers. Oh, it's huge.
I mean, think about it this way, like, by starting our conversation with the term financial intimacy. I mean, intimacy is not something that we typically associate with finances. Right. When you think about why relationships go south, you think about, oh, well, someone had an affair. Right. It's some sort of a romantic intimacy and someone was, you know, not faithful.
But financial intimacy or lack thereof is absolutely a huge cause or a huge topic that leads to the disruption of relationships or leads to divorce or whatever it may be because of that lack of transparency and honesty. Absolutely, absolutely. So I know we covered a ton. We probably have people over there, like, I'm gonna set a money date tomorrow. Please do. Can I just make one more point, Tiff? Yes, go right ahead. Which is that, like with everything, early intervention is key.
So the whole financial intimacy concept becomes a lot easier when you start it early on. You know, I do a lot of prenuptial agreements with clients, and one of the things that we have to do here in California is disclose as part of the prenuptial agreement process everybody's assets and debts and income and expenses. And for so many couples, that is the first time where they are talking about their financial circumstances.
And it's kind of surprising that this is someone that you've already committed to spending. Spending the rest of your life with and you don't know what their financial circumstances are. And you guys haven't had these discussions. So I really encourage people early on in a relationship. I'm not saying it's first date material, but I think that it's really important to have those conversations when you're serious with someone early. That makes the intimacy much more natural and easy.
I'm so glad you brought that up because that is definitely key. I feel like once you feel like that person may have a long term future with you is when you should start having those conversations because it could make life so much easier. Yeah. And if they're not comfortable having the conversation, another red flag. You're absolutely right. So thank you so much, Ashley, Ashley, for coming on the show today. Now people are interested in learning more about you. Where could they find you?
Sure. I'm a partner at a law firm called Blank Rome. B L A N K R O M E. I'm also on LinkedIn and would be happy to help. Perfect. And I'll make sure I have all of that information in the show notes for our audience. So thank you so much again, Ashley for coming on the show today. Thank you so much and I hope. You have a wonderful rest of of your day. Thanks so much, Tiff. It was great to talk to you.
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