You know what it is? That's right. It's time to talk money with your money nerd and financial coach. Now tighten those purse strings and open those ears. It's the Money Talk with Tiff podcast. Hey, everyone. I am so excited because I have John Briggs on the line now. He's here to talk to us about productivity. And y'all know I love some productivity hacks, so let's just hop right into it. Hey, John, how are you doing? Great, Tiffany. Thanks for having me. Yeah, thank you so much
for coming on. So you mentioned before we hit record that you have a 3.3 rule that can boost productivity. So let's hear more about that. Okay, let me start with a bit of a history trip. Back in the 1800s, people were working like 100 hours a week on average. And then this guy comes along and he's trying to sell these motorized carriages. And he thought, you know, who doesn't want to buy motorized carriages? People who are working 100 hours a week. Exactly right.
He created a weekend, what we still call the weekend. People were working Monday through Saturday and only having Sunday off. So he's like, I'm gonna let my workers have Saturday off as well. And so that they have energy going in to this Saturday, Sunday days off, I'm only going to have them work eight hours a day. Now all of a sudden, people are like, wow, I actually am not exhausted and I've always wanted to go to that place. And oh, my gosh, with this motorized carriage, I could
go even further and see more of the world. And so Henry Ford selling automobiles created what we still use today as the standard 40 hour work week, solely based on the need and desire to sell more cars. There's no science behind it. There's no rhyme or reason to it other than just, let's sell more cars. Luckily, between then and now, a lot of science has been done on how we work as humans, how our brains work, our ability to focus changes.
And so we can get into all the science you want, Tiffany. But the science that I looked at backed me into what I Now call the 3.3 rule, which states the most efficient work day consists of working up to three hours at a time, followed by a 30% recovery period. So the three. The first three, and the 3.3 says up to three hours, and the 0.3 is referring to the 30% recovery time we should take after working. Okay, so you just dropped a ton and I am a nerd. So I love the history lesson.
And I'm just like, oh, My gosh, capitalism at its finest. He's like, let's sell some more cars. How can we sell some more cars? Make sure people are less tired so that way they can drive. I love it. So that is so interesting. But going back to that though, it is very crazy that we still abide by that same rule. And now people are talking about four day work week, so it might be getting even shorter. So let's dive into this 3.3 rule because it sounds interesting, but it sounds like a lot of
math. So let's back into it for the audience. So you said work for up to three hours. So are we doing the whole three hours or should we take breaks? Because one technique that I use a lot is the Pomodoro method. So is it the full three hours or we taking breaks in between? Yeah, the reason I set it up as a rule so it's like guidelines that we can use to adapt our behavior is because we are all completely different and to say so I like the pomodoro technique and I talk about it in my
book, the 3.3 Rule. The challenge with the Pomodoro technique is what if I'm actually really just in the zone when the timer goes off after 20 minutes, I have interrupted my flow state. So not only are we all different, but even the tasks that we do each day are different. So for example, I'm an accountant, I'm a cpa. I have an accounting firm. I love forecasting. If you gave me someone's financial statements and said, hey, can you do some forecasting with this? I would geek out
on that and I would be, I could just, I love it so much. But I'm also introverted. And if you said, hey, John, can you get on the phones and answer all the phones? That's going to take a lot more out of me. And all of us are different. I have some team members who love being on the phones and would not want to touch a spreadsheet for the life, for their like if their life depended on it. So that's why I set it up as guidelines. So that's why it's work up to
three hours. So if I'm on the phone and I'm feeling like, man, I'm actually just, I think my focus is, you know, waning a little bit. I'm getting a little tired, then that's a sign that let me just take a 30% break. Oh, I worked an hour. I'll take 20 minutes off if I'm geeking out on a spreadsheet. And doing forecasting. Then at three hours, I know as much as I love it that the science
shows my productivity for sure is going to drop off after three hours. So at that point I'd take a break and 30% of the three hours would be a full hour off. And then whatever that 30% time period is allows our brain to reset so that when I come back to try to focus again, my mind is actually ready to focus again instead of this arbitrary nine to five, sit your butt in the seat and work for eight hours straight. Or I mean, obviously people have to take lunch breaks, but you
get what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, I'm glad you mentioned that because sometimes you do get into that flow where you're like, ooh, like let me keep going. I'm like that with websites. I'm like, ooh, like as soon as I get started, I'm right, like I'm on it. Right? Yeah. But there's other things like you mentioned where I'm like, I really don't feel like doing this, but I have
to. And so I like that it's just a guideline where you can take as much time as you need, how however long you're in that said flow and then just taking that 30% afterwards. So yeah, I think that's pretty neat. Yeah. Yep, that's, that's exactly why we do it. Because like you just said, I mean, websites aren't my thing, so that would be hard
for me to do. And if you think about all the different tasks that have to go on, whether I'm an employee or a business owner, most of the time there's a variety of tasks that we're responsible for. And so it's just good to know like at the end of the day, what I love about the rule is it allows us to be so self aware, it puts us more in tune with our own likes and dislikes. Because it is a matter of acknowledging
I've been doing this, whatever the task is for this long. I just, I'm like, I can tell that I'm being slower, I can tell that I'm not focused. That's a perfect sign to say, boom, let me get up and take a 30% recovery period. Because the best thing about this is the recovery period. In order to be the most effective, you can't do any work related things. You have to let
your brain and mind get a rest from that. Gotcha. Now when you say that, do you think like no screens at all or is it like, oh, you can go on social media or what have you. Like, do you have any stipulations around that? But as long or as long as you're just not doing that task that you are working on. Yeah. So great question to answer that. Let me tell you about the kind of. One of the biggest
keystones of this research that I found. There is a guy at the University of Illinois, his name's Alejandro Lleras. And at the time he was doing a study, everybody was. Everyone wanted to try to figure out what's the magic number of attention span. They felt like, if I could be the scientist that discovers what is the real human attention span, then I'm going to be famous. He actually stopped and paused for a second and said, wait a minute, is this the right question?
Because if I'm daydreaming, my attention is still on something. It just may not be on the task or activity I need to have it on. So he's like, it's not an attention span. If we're awake, our attention is on something. So he first kind of put his foot down with, okay, maybe this isn't the right question. And then he saw this other study that was related to physical stimulus. Our minds will neutralize a constant physical stimulus. So think about the clothes that we're wearing.
Everyone listening. This probably has clothes on, but you kind of forgot until I just mentioned it. Now you can feel the weight of it. If you wiggle your shoulders a little bit, you can kind of feel the friction against your skin. It's because the pressure of the clothes on our skin is a constant stimulus that our brain neutralizes. And now he's putting these two ideas together of
attention span and this constant stimulus. And he wondered, I wonder if it's the same thing to do with our attention. If our mind is focused on the same thing for so long, will our mind actually neutralize that stimulus? And that is what he discovered in his study. And so I give that science behind. Now, when we look at the break, what can I do on the break to make it the most effective? It has
to be unwork related. And we have to make sure that we're not doing things that stimulate the brain the same way working would do. So screens aren't off limits. However, if, for example, media these days, everything that's related to the political world is very biased and is written in a way to generate extreme emotions on either side, whether it's complete euphoria and you support whatever's being said, or you're really mad because you completely disagree with Whatever's being said.
So on my break, it would not be smart for me to read something like that that's going to stimulate my stress or anger or, you know, those types of things. But like, you know, comedy is really great. Laughing is really great. And so if I'm using a screen to watch comedians, like maybe I set up a YouTube channel or you know, have a playlist there, that's a bunch of comedians, that's totally fine. And so we just have to be smart about what exactly we're doing.
I have an example for you. We have a team member going through some things where she had to move places and talking to your spouse or really a colleague, just about life. That's normally good. But in this case there was so much stress in her life going on that when she was taking a break, she was talking to her spouse about the things that they're stressed out about
and that didn't actually end up giving her a very good break. And she didn't come back to work with the same type of focus that someone who took a better break would have come back with. Yes,
yes. I love this because I've noticed over the years that, you know, since most of my work is on the computer, I noticed that whenever I take a break and do something physical, so like making something or just something that I can, that's tactile, it's a real stress reliever for me and I'm able to do a different type of attention and focus on something else. So
I definitely agree with what you're saying there. And also when I was working in corporate America, I would always use my 15 minute breaks and 30 minute lunch to go outside, just get some nature. And I felt like that was very energizing as well. Yeah, you're. I mean, your observation is right on. For most people, something tactile and even creative is a really great outlet. So whether that's drawing, painting, journaling is actually really
good. You know, my kids love to color. As an adult, I haven't done it as much. Not that I don't. I mean, if you enjoy doing that, shouldn't feel like it's a kid's activity. Coloring is a really great activity to do. And then what you mentioned, getting out, walking around, those types of things are really good. One of the guys who was a beta reader to my book, he had sent me an email like 4 months after I sent him the beta version of my book, before
I published it. And he's like, hey, I wanted to thank you. I've lost £20. And I'm like, hold on, wait a minute. I'm like, I did own a gym a few years ago, but he was never a member. I'm not connecting in my mind the weight loss to anything that I would have done for him. He said, no, but it's great. I go to work from 9 to 12 and I'm focused the whole time. So I take a whole hour off. And now that I'm taking a whole hour off for my lunch break, I've decided I'm going to walk my
dog. And because I have so much time off, I actually walk my dog a couple miles in that time period. And then when I come back and I'm ready to eat lunch because I just did something physically. One, I got extra physical fitness in that I wasn't getting before. I'm bonding with my dog. I'm outside in nature, and when I come down to sit and
eat, I'm not eating the same junk that I was eating. Which means when the 2 and 3 o'clock time period comes around where normally I was crashing, I don't need to snack on sugary things to keep my attention up. Because I'm following this rule and because of it, I've been living the principle and I've lost 20 pounds. I'm like, well, that was. I wasn't what I was thinking was going to happen when I wrote the book,
but that's, that's freaking awesome. Good job. Yeah. And I mean, it makes perfect sense too, because once you start changing up what you do, I feel like most of our lives we just live on autopilot. So I feel like if we just switch up certain things in our routine, it'll do a domino effect. Like in his situation,
it just a domino effect. And all of a sudden you're losing weight because you implemented one thing and that was taking a longer break or taking a break and doing something which was walking the dog. So I think that's pret cool. So you mentioned a book, though. So tell us more about your book. Because I want to lose £20. Yeah, it's. It's called the 3.3 rule. New workday standard to get more done by working less. It's on Amazon.
We have a website,33rulebook.com the first part, the first half of the book, I talk about the science, I talk about why I wrote it. Which quick summary is as an accountant, there's a lot of things going on in the accounting industry that aren't great. We don't have a very good trend with people who are going to retire and new people wanting to be accountants. And I think one of the reasons is because accounting firms, like a lot of other
companies, kind of force their team members to. They just, they treat them like they're a disposable asset instead of a human being. And the science supports that. You need to give them breaks and they'll actually produce more than what they were doing compared to when you're not doing the breaks. And so the first part talks about the science, it talks about the rule, how to implement it in general ways. And then the last half of the book was written
primarily for small business owners. It goes through what I call the 3.3 system that talks about the different areas of your business over the my career growing a firm from just me in a windowless office to a team of 220 plus team members, with team members almost in every state. I think we're in about 30 states right now with team members, but we work with all clients. What were the things that I discovered that moved the needle the
most to have the most success? Because at the end of the day for me it's always about how do I maintain work life harmony, how do I increase the profitability of my business? And whether I'm a business owner or an employee, the 3.3 rule applies because you will be more productive. And guess what? If you're more productive as an employee, you're likely to get promoted and you surely are going to have a much better life outside of work. Which at the end of the day, that's what
it's about, right? We don't, we don't live to work. We work so that we can live. Amen and amen. Thank you so much, John. I'm definitely interested in this book, especially when you said the last part is for small business owners. Because I'm like, I want to grow my team to 200 and something people too. So thank you so much. Now if people were interested in learning more about you or following you on social, where could they find you? So I'm on LinkedIn. That's probably the
primary place you could find me at. John Briggs, CPA on LinkedIn. A lot of the stuff that we do is kind of wrapped into my accounting firm. So if you wanted to find out stuff that way, like most of the videos I put are on our accounting YouTube channel and it's Insights Tax and that's spelled like to cause a riot, insider riot incitement. If you Google Insight tax or the 3.3 rule or John Briggs, CPA. Chances are you can find me.
Perfect. Perfect. And I'll make sure I have all of those links in the show notes. So if you're listening and you didn't have time to write all of that down, don't worry, it's in the show notes. So thank you so much John for coming on the show today. This was very inspirational, insightful and eye opening. I think I'm going to start implementing that today. Thank you Tiffany. Bye. Thank you for listening, joining and being
a part of the Money Talk with Tiff podcast this week. You can check Tiff out every Thursday for a new Money Talk podcast but if you just can't wait until next week, you can listen to previous podcast [email protected] or follow TIFF on all social media platforms forms at Money Talk with T. Until next time. Spend wise by spending less than you make. A word to the money wise is always sufficient.