Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News. I do think weather trading is I wrote this week about a guy who was thinking about buying weather futures to hedge golf bets on the sports Yeah platform that he ran, because that makes a lot of sports bets are correlated with weather. And so if you're a sports betting platform, one of your correlated like systemic risks, is weather risks, so you might as well trade rain futures or whatever.
I mean. The weather is absolutely a factor when it comes to horse racing, which is one of the most popular or one of the oldest forms of sports betting. Okay, you know you have certain horses that are mutters, You're right, who really love racing and the wet and other horses just don't even want to touch it. Yeah, right, but they have to, right well, because of the abuse.
Hello and welcome to the Money's Love Podcast, your weekly podcast where we talk about stuff related to my I'm Matt Levine and I write the Money Stuft column for.
Bloomberg Opinion, and I'm Katie Greifeld, a reporter for Bloomberg News and an anchor for Bloomberg Television.
Katie, there's a new bird in town, not thoughts but your fallen friends. But no new bird ai yeah, formerly currently now as all birds.
I you know, love that they kept the bird. Maybe they only did it.
It doesn't matter.
It matters, Maden, it matters, and I just I'm charmed with their I love this story. I love I love the price action around this story. It reminds me, reminds me of a simpler time in twenty twenty one, when meme stocks were raging and you could just pivot into crypto or blockchain with seemingly few credentials and your stock would sotore. And here we are in twenty twenty six and that game is still alive.
Right, the classic was I think it was earlier.
Than twenty twenty one, It definitely was.
It was like twenty seventeen. I want to say it was the real pinnacle of the blockchain stuff. Where Long island iceed tea company by the way, the non alcohol it's very funny name.
Also confusing, yeah, very confused.
Yeah, but lyland iceed Tea, so good lyland iceed Tea company pivoted to being a blockchain company and they kept like the Long Yeah, they became Long blockchain amazing. Their blockchains are going to be actual anyway they're talking about. The thing about like pivoting to blockchain in twenty seventeen is that like it was all kind of like blank space.
It did feel novel.
Oh I'm going to launch a crypto. People were like, O, yeah, sure, Like doaje cooin was worth billions of dollars, Like okay, you as well as anyone else, right, Uber and Ai? Yeah, pivoting into AI infrastructure, They're gonna, you know, by pus from Nvidia and put them in data centers and rent them out to run computer workloads for why on I'll tell you why not? Because like that takes a lot of money. It's not like crypto like that is a business for Iti. It's like open eyes talking about a
trillion dollars of commitments. That is a business where people are like a huge superstructure of financing has been built up to allow people to build gigantic data centers and source in video chips years in advance and like get all of these things to work together. And it is quite capital intensive, yes, and quite credit dependent. And new
Bird you know it was formerly all birds. It is selling the sneaker business the brand and the I don't know, ip, Yeah, it's selling the sneaker business for selling like thirty nine million dollars to someone else, and we'll have that cash, which it has already said it will dividend some or all of it to serrelders. And then it announced they financing which has a headline number of fifty million dollars, although really only five million of it has committed the
rest of the investments. It's kind of like, you know, millions of dollars, which will you know, get you twenty minutes of a data center. But it's not an obvious AI infrastructure.
But to that point, because there are sale side analysts who cover this company.
Well quit well like I've done with this.
William Blair an William Blair analyst Dylan Cardon says that a fifty million dollar investment is quote a drop in the bucket in the broader neo cloud market where most companies run Capex budgets well into the billions of dollars. And he also dropped his.
Coverage trillions and fifty million is even a number state whatever, And yeah.
He doesn't cover the company anymore, right, he dropped his coverage, right, probably because he.
Covers moved to a farm upstate. He is done.
I've seen it all.
I just like that's what I would do.
Yeah.
He also take a baseball that to my computer and be done with the stock analyst game.
He also attributed most of this move to some compilation of a very shallow float, automated momentum, and unchecked hype.
Probably also some short squeeze. Yeah, maybe also some short squeeze. Lesson is don't I mean it was chazillion fund companies to zero, but yeah, no, I mean it's hype, it's it doesn't feel I don't think maybe I'm wrong. I don't think that there are a ton of retail investors or professional investors, but certainly not professionals. I don't think there are a ton of retail investors who like, wake up and read that press for this, and I'm like, oh boy, this is like the next big AI play.
This is going to go to a trillion dollars. I need to get in on this earlier. I'm gonna buy some new bird stock maybe or some Yeah. But I think a lot of people are like, oh, this is a great headline. Other people are going to read this. I think it's almost all like like recursive, self referential game of hot potato, right, Like no one's being fooled, just someone as the last person to buy.
Yeah, I've been kind of thinking of it as doing it for the plot, like it's funny buying some bird stock. At this moment.
It was definitely possible, at any point yesterday that you would not be the last one out, the last one in. Right, It's definitely possible that would keep going up, So you know whatever.
Yeah, well you talked yesterday.
We're recording this on Thursday. Wednesday was the day that all Birds and said it was new Birds, and its stock went up like five hundred percent.
It was so good.
It's down a bit on Thursday. We had a lot of still like way up from Tuesday.
I had a lot of fun talking about it on television. Obviously, sure, sure, okay, so we're talking about retail investors, but they do have that unnamed institutional investor who is making that yeah, fifty million dollar commit I had.
Some guesses in my mind, but I didn't write them down, and then someone else send me a different guest that was probably more informant.
It's not like black Crock, Okay, no, it's video. I don't think I don't know it would be right.
I feel like I'm doing it for the plot.
I feel like Johnson might just say we're doing this because it's funny.
I did a little googling to see if he was like non for wearing all birds, because like all birds are like in their head out.
Did you wear all Birds? Okay, my husband had a pair. They look nice. Actually, this is crazy. I don't know if you would want me to say this, but I am so. I visited my parents in Florida for Easter, and my husband keeps some shoes at their house, like we have just random shoes at their house, and my dad stepped out in a pair of like vintage all Birds. I was like, are you wearing Joe's shoes? And turns out he was. This must have been a signal you know this, and I do not think so. I don't
think he qualifies as an institutional investor. I should have done something with this information, because are like three.
Weeks later this is a valuable signal. Yeah, yeah, no, there's definitely like there are some funds that do these sorts of weird convertibles in micro gap stocks that are about to pivot to I don't want to say meme status exactly, but not not meme status. Yeah, like memish, and you know some of them do very well. I mean the classic is I wrote a lot about when Bad Bathroom Beyond did a big convertible structure kind of
like this one with Hudson Bay Capital. Hutson Bay made like one hundred millions, like tens hundreds of millions of dollars. I take it selling stock on behalf of bed bath and Beyond as it trickled. That's way to bankruptcy. So there's definitely some money to be made doing weird floating strike convertible bonds for companies that are kind of just kicking around. But like when you pair it with the pivot to AI, it's really quite exciting.
Yeah.
I don't fully understand how the institutional investor monetizes this. Like classically, the convertible becomes convertible, and you convert some you get some stock, you sell it. So it's very possible they have made no money yet and they're waiting to like go through all of the process and actually fund the thing and get the stock. I think it's probably hard to short the stock right now, which is so it's hard for them to make any money, to
have made any money so far. And you know there's a bit of a melting ice cube element here where Yeah, if you announce this pivot, you want to be selling stock like today. You don't want to be like eh in like six to eight weeks when the deal closes.
Yea selling stock because you want to capitalize.
I know what's going to happen.
I do like your strategy that you put together finding ten near defunct public companies, right.
Because this is not like a winner take all market where like, yeah, new Bird AI is going to dominate the data center market, there's plenty of room for ten other companies you.
Haven't heard of, and you've got to diversify.
Got a diversify. The Watch Journal today an article about how Barney's the story is coming back. But as a department store is like, oh, come on, they gotta do an AI pivot. And I realized they're not a public company, so it doesn't make sense. But but there was also impressed with this today miseum. So two weeks ago they put it up I don't know, but they put it out a pressure this seekco Myseum brings free, private social network to ten thousand weddings where every guest becomes the photographer.
Oh yeah, so there's there's their business model as of two weeks ago. The company. Wednesday of this week, Myseum rebrands as miseum dot ai to align with full suite of technology and social media platforms. I think they just added dot ai to their name, Like, I don't think they're making a substantive change to their rewarding for yeah, all thattwork, but by adding dot ai, their stock doubled on Thursday.
This is the new data.
Well, it's the new pivots of crypti, which was the new pivot to dot com.
In terms of everything for this moment in time, this is working and.
You're still right that was the like twenty twenty four things.
Yeah, like say that you're now you're accumulating cryptotoken your choice.
Yeah, I can't video chips, which harder to do.
Yeah, I don't know. We'll see how long there's juice to squeeze here.
Dad's we're like very intense for like I don't know, three six months. I feel like this is like three to six days.
But maybe about hours.
I mean, the thing is like the AI boom has legs, right, So like there's definitely like miseum going a day after all birds. It feels like a flash in the pan. But like in six months if someone's like we're pivoting to AI infrastructure, will it work? Maybe? I don't know.
It is weird that you know, this is only happening now in terms of like the market reaction, the market embrace here because you know, we've been talking about AI has been the conversation for at least two years now.
Right Again, it's from crypto. You can't just like wake up one day like where are going to be a you know, frontier AI model, Like there is like a winner take all element here where people are giving a lot of money to fund people who have real AI chops and not you know, random sneaker companies. The ill say is that like the pivots AI thing, when you look at the actual like neo clouds, like the companies that are you know in this business, several of them
did in fact pivot from crypto. Right, Yeah, there's a very traditional like crypto minding to AI neocloud path where basically like you were like, we're going to get it really into mining crypto and what that entailed in like twenty twenty one was building data centers and acquiring a lot of like Nvidia GPUs and then you happen to be really well set up to become an AI infrastructure provider. Yeah, when crypto crashed and AI took off, so is the
stock market has rewarded pivots to AI of the past. Yeah, but from people who you know, chips servers.
Well, there's new Bird on the street. At least I feel like this whole story. I mean, we'd still be talking about it, but it's.
It didn't have a bird.
It's made more fun by the fact that we're talking about new Bird AI. Matt fear Not, I know you were wondering what the etf angle is here, and I have one for you.
Is theirs?
No, it's the meme TF. Sure, apparently the memetf It's from Roundtail. It was resurrected. It's already bought into all birdstock, which.
Like yes Wednesday, or like before Wednesday.
I think on Wednesday. Well, here's the reporting. Here's the reporting. Round Hill Investments, which has a meme stock eat TF that was rolled out to capture such moves was one buyer of all Birds at the start of the training day. Do you want to hear from the CEO? Well, here's what he had to say. A shoe company rebranding as an AI compute infrastructure play is the kind of narrative
if that ignites retail enthusiasm. The spike in retail sentiment, coupled with a sharp increase in trading volume and elevated volatility around Bird following its AI pivot are exactly the signals the meme METF is designed to capture in real time.
Fine, whatever, Like he runs an ETF, It's fine, he can capture those signals in real What I will say is that if you were like an active meme investor, Yeah, which look he is, but whatever, if you're an active meme investor, the time to buy all Bird stock is before And on the one hand, how would you know this was coming?
How would you know?
On the other hand, this is a small public company with a like retail facing brand name with like some nostalgic value, that has already announced that's selling actual business and is just a public company listing. Just a public company listing right now has a lot of option value, right like just having a public company listing and not having anything particularly useful to do with it. If you have just a public listing nothing else, and you're like, welp,
we've done what we need to do here. We're gonna shut this down. You are wasting shareholder money. You gotta do is be like, we've got a public listing. We're gonna do it. Dad, We're gonna do an ai P. We're gonna do some nonsense, right, And so these guys did some nonsense. And if you had been like, well, this is a shell public company listing, we're gonna see what nonsense they get up to, you would have made a lot of money. Mm hmm. Whatever.
It's fine, some any thing about it in the future. For all the mean.
Maybe you can only buy actual memes stacks, but if you're just like a person looking to invest the memesas you should, you should buy them before they become memes. This is like son advice, boy, oh boy, don't do that.
I obviously don't do that. So excellent shareholder wedding. Yeah, there's like a lot of retail shareholders they try to never vote their shares because it's a waste of time to investor to vout their shares, and so this sometimes annoy is corporate managers because what you have is like the only people who vote are institutional investors, and sometimes those institutional investors are ornery, or they care about governance stuff that companies don't care about, or traditionally they care
about ESG stuff the companies don't care about and excellent. In fact, a few years ago, a very small activist share they're called Engine number one, ran a proxy fight basically over there like climate transition plans. They won the proxy fight and they got a director elected to Excellon's board. It's very embarrassing for Exon. And they won the proxy fight not because they had a lot of shoes, but because they you know, they got some interest from like
the sort of black rocks and state streets of the world. Who.
You know, it was also very of the time.
Yeah who At the time, we're like, oh, yes, g we love that, right, and so now this is all in the distant past, but Extend never really got over it. Like, you know, a couple of years ago they got to like some sort of like activist proposal and their shareolder proposal, and they sued the proponents to stop them from doing it.
I grudge.
They really have a grudge. And so one thing they did I think, like last September was they announced this new program where if you're a retail shareholder, you can just submit standing instructions to let the board vote your shares the way the board wants to. People got mad about this because like it's obviously designed to the ward esga and try to board power, which I understand, but I also like really expected because like the retail shoolders are not going to vote to waste the time. So
this is like solving that problem. And the retail shareholders probably do want to do what the board wants to do, and probably don't want to do what like black Rock wants to do, probably have like less esg commitment than like the big institution manager. And so right now the institution's vote and the retail shoulders don't vote, and so the institutions have a lot of sway because they vote and they might have different preferences from the retail shareolders.
And this is a way for Excellent to say, Okay, retail shareholders, if your preference is just do whatever the board wants, you can just do that and then we'll vote your shares for you, and we'll sort of recapture some voting power from the institutions. I think is like annoying if you're an institutional investor or like a fan
of governance or a fan of ESG. But I think it's kind of a smart call by accent And you could never have done this in the past because, like I think, it's easy to characterize it as being undemocratic. And in the current SEC. Excellon went to the SEC and said, can we do this? And the current SEC was like absolutely, you know, like because the current SEC does not like the influence of Black Crock and EESG
and proxy advisors and all that stuff. So Excellon was able to do this, and they are now they have their proxy season, their proxy has come out and so they're doing it. You can submit your standing instructions to the board to vote. But meanwhile they got a shareholder proposal from the New York City Comptroller, a classic opponent of everything.
That Xcells Governance stands are right.
And they say, no, it's not fair for you to have only one set of standing instructions that is, you know, vote. However, the board wants you should have other standing instructions such as vote against.
Whatever the board wants in all situations.
Yeah, I love it. You should have, like, if you have, like the option for retail trailers to always vote with the board, you should also give them the equivalent option to always vote.
Against the board, or an option like fifty to fifty you know.
Just a coin.
Yeah right.
They do actually say they should include a range of possible voting options, such as independent voting options based on standing instructions, a general against management policy, and or customized policies. They don't mention coin flipping, but that would be a good one.
Yeah.
Anyway, we'll see if this passes. It won't pass. Excellon has recommended against it, saying, in part, like, it would not be consistent with our fiduciary duties to let to like give people an instruction to always vote the way we think they shouldn't vote. It's like, you know, the board is a fiducia. They're like trying to tell you about the right way, right theory. They if they give you the option to always vote the wrong way, that seems bad.
Yeah.
I loved it as a piece of trawling.
Yeah, I mean I also like it on the part of the New York City Controller's Office. Yeah, good game to both sides. I was reading a Morning Star reaction piece and very on brand from morning Star. They're also not a big fan of Exon's ideal here, but there were some interesting I kind of like it, excellent likes it and Matt Levine and.
The sect of a lot of big fans, but yeah, not a lot of opinion.
Con Well, morning Star points out that the company reports that forty percent of its shares are held by retail investors, and seventy five percent of those shareholders don't cast votes on the proxies. Forty percent is super high.
Yeah right.
Also, morning Star went into a little bit how if you look on Exxon's at Exon's marketing materials for this, they talk about just like what a pain this is
for retail shareholders. They say that the average retail investor would have to dedicate a full year of full time work to briefly study and vote on each of the twenty eight thousand items in the proxy of the companies in the Russell threeenty and twenty twenty four, assuming they only spent five minutes on each item, which sounds like an exaggeration, right, I.
Mean, like nobody owns every very single individual stock in the wrestle three thousand. Yeah, that's not a reasonable thing to do. You might own a Wrestle three thousand index fund, yeah, and not vote, But it would be very weird to buy all three thousand individual stocks and vote. But next sounds right, like it's irrational to spend any time more Correctionally, It's true you wouldn't actually spend a year reading proxy materials.
But someone might or not a full yek. But I don't know, I don't There are people.
Whose job is to read and vote, like giant asset managers. I picture hundreds of billions or dollars with a stock.
In my mind's I I see like, you know, kind of elderly man stooped over his kitchen table just reading proxy materials. There are they can take about at.
Him sometimes and they like to their proposal proponents, right, people who are like what can I try to get Exxon to do? And they spend a lot of time rating process. Yeah, but Exon does not care about them, No, it hates them them.
It actually cares a lot in a negative place, like.
It like stays up all my being angry at them.
Do you know what is important?
Coffee?
Coffee. I was so charmed by this story in the Wall Street Journal by Crystal her talking about Nisies coffee rooms. It has an elite coffee tasting force. I feel like we've also talked about this general idea. Basically, they have to have people to set the ratings on US futures markets prices for various types of coffee, so they have to verify right any future markets work.
The way many agricultural commodity of futures markets work is that you can take physical delivery of your futures. And if you buy coffee futures, you might get physical delivery of coffee in a nicy bonded warehouse. Yeah, a nice ice. Intercontinental Exchanges owns nicy in an ice bonded warehouse, and that coffee has to meet certain quality standards in order for the whole thing to work, for the futures to actually reflect to coffee prices, and in order for that
coffee to meat quality standards. There's a room on the eighth floor of the New York Stock Exchange where thirty eight mostly fifty something year old men.
Yeah, and they sniff and they slurp.
So okay. A real peeve of mine and journalism is that people, often like discussing people like eating soup or drinking drinks, will say slurping, And I'm like, why does it have to be slurping? Why do you have to emphasize the sound? Like that's not how people eat. But in this case, I cannot fault it because they are required to noisily slurp the coffee because like apparently that's how you, you know, get the.
Full floor of the flavor.
And so they play loud music to drown out the horrifying sound of thirty eight men slurping coffee.
Sounds that I've tried to get into this podcast when you eat soup.
Yes, that's true. We're not going to am going to do that because we'll be immediately removed from the air. The other thing that is amazing in the story is that there are photographs, yeah, somewhat alarming photographs of people mid spit, spitting out the coffee that they've slopped. It's really it's like, it's not all glamorous and I fans.
I know we've talked about Morgan's the the pub. Yes, in JP Morgan's new building which I still want to go to. Well, I've been there many times. I want to take the podcast there. I want to take this podcast to.
Like a din of ac DC and slurping.
That sounds insane. It sounds like the worst you've ever heard. But you might say this sounds like the best job ever.
Oh I wouldn't, Oh, I might like honestly, like, I love my job so much.
Yeah, and my.
Only complaint is that sometimes, you know, we said on an open piet office, we do, and sometimes someone near me is eating an apple.
That must really tick you off.
Imagine like I could not tolerate this coffee slurping job.
I could absolutely do it, but apparently not a lot of people are doing it.
It's very well because it's partly because like it's not a real job. It's like apparently most of them are either retired or like after they finish their hour of slurping, they go to a real job.
Like you know for sure it's their side hustle.
Yeah, it's like it's like it's an their commodity trading job. But it's not like their it's not how they make money. They must get paid, Yeah, you get paid. It's not like maybe I.
Could do that before the you know, quick hour before the show exactly.
The other reason there aren't that many of them is because it's a very hard exam. Yes, but the Master SA exam but for coffee.
Yeah, so only about five to eight percent of test takers will typically pass each time the test it is administered. But it's a four day exam. It's only given once every five years or so, which is nuts. And if you it's not like I don't know, if I don't know.
One room, yeah, I know. But compared it to the Masters AA exam, where like there's a lot of like people who want that credential so they can do various jobs in the wine world. Like there's one job in the coffee world where you need this credential and it's like kind of a part time job.
Yeah, but even still, you'd think that it's just as difficult to hold it once a year as it is every five years.
I'm not sure that's true.
So that's apparently a big This is why we need to go to the room and talk to the people in the room.
The other thing I want to say about the exam is like I read a lot about like this linkage between financial futures and like the underlying commodity in the warehouse. And I often point out that because almost no not no, but almost no futures settle for physical delivery that has actually then taken out of the warehouse and used in industry, like very few of them settle that way, I would have some expectation that the quality of the stuff in the warehouses would be lower than the quality used by
industrial users. Like yeah, if you're a coffee roaster, you will try to get the best beans delivered directly to you from the farmer or whatever. And the beans that are like, yeah, they're fine, get delivered to the stock exchange warehouse, right because those are not likely to be used immediately in making coffee, to be used to underlie financial futures contracts. And in fact, there was a great story that I read about a couple of years ago,
twenty twenty three. The way the grading worked is, among other things, there's an age penalty where if the coffee has been in the warehouse for too long it is not as valuable. You get a discount when you deliver it into a futures contract for somewhat obvious reason, which is the yeah, it tastes bad still, right, But the rules allowed you to take coffee out of the warehouse, yeah, and then put it back in and get it regraded and you got rid of their age penalty because it
was for futures. It wasn't for making coffee anyway. This is obviously not entirely true, because some of the stuff in the Future's warehouse does get taken out and used to make coffee in you know, and it is a
source of supply for actually industrial users. But it's just like you wouldn't think that like the premium on freshness and quality at the Stock Exchange warehouse would be the highest, which is why it's fascinating that they need thirty eight testers who go through this rigorous testing to grade this coffee, because it's like like these are like, you know, the elite coffee tasters of the world, but they're not like
working for like three star restaurants. They're working for like, yeah, it's going to go on the warehouse and it's going to be for futures. Contracts.
Just love the game.
Really, It's it's very admirable that that they care so much.
You know.
I've written about like Nickel Futures, where like JV. Moore gonna have had some nickel, whereas that turned out to be rocks. It didn't matter. It didn't matter with this coffee. They like lovingly grade the coffee.
I know. I want to talk about the test a little more of the test because it's three stages, right stiff the beans, Well, let me tell you, well, actually.
Written test sniff, beans, drink up.
First part, you're correct, it's a written portion. You know, your test on rules and regulations regarding coffee grading. Second portion, which is more than three hours long, your test on your ability to grade the coffee based on factors such as smelling and color.
And then this is I think not brood coffee. I think the second part is like beans, yes, and the cups.
If you pass those two portions, and if you fail, you have to go back to the beginning. You can't like retake the second portion. But if you pass those two portions, you have a cupping exam, which is smelling, tasting, and spinning coffee in front of proctors, right, yeah, in.
Front of every part of the coffee process.
Yeah, well, not every part.
The article mentions to even get to the exam, you have to have some like relevant background often as a commodity trader, and they're like, definitely not as a barista.
Yeah, because actually that is hard.
Much more relevant than commodity trading.
But actually it's a quote that being a barista absolutely does not count.
It has to be more relevant than trading commodities at a computer. But whatever, Yeah, that's what expert.
That was my intuition as well. But again, once we're in the room, we can ask them all these questions. Yeah, apparently there's a lot of pent up demands to take the test. The test is this night, yeah right, the test is this month. This month's every five years test, and the Wall Street Journal reports that the last time that the test was administered, there were only about twenty candidates.
But apparently there's been a swell of interest. So rest easy your warehouse coffee that's backing your coffee futures.
Assume there are other like are there like pork belly tasters, corn futures, you know, frozen orange juice tasters.
You know, if they had this rigorous process applied to nickel kickers, there are nic kickers.
After the JP Morgan thing, they did actually send out good commodity analysts to kick all the nickel and that's funny in the warehouses. But but yeah, no, I mean like like there's a lot of uh delicious as your agricultural commodities. I wonder if there's like a similarly ring, you know, fraternity of tasters, Yeah, sugar tasters. Yeah, like kids said that's that dust, they wouldn't. I've written recently
about the salad oils, you know, the salad oil scandal. No, this company in like the sixties, it was like getting a lot of apparently like soybean oil had just been invented, and so like there's a craze for soybean oil. Crazy, yeah, craze for sobeing oil. And this company that got hundreds of millions or millions of dollars of financing against that
stock of soybean oil. And like the banks would be like, oh, yeah, we we'll lend you a millions of dollars aginst your sobe No, but we gotta go check on the soybean oil. And so they went and they looked at the tanks and the tanks were full, and they're like, eah, it's a full tank of slovino. But in fact it was salt water with like a few inches of soybean oil on top of god. So it collapsed and scandal and people lost a lot of money.
That would never happen on the floor of the New York Sock Exchange.
I'll tell you one more story. To Anchor Television, I mentioned that it comes back to your interests. I mentioned the salad oil scandal, and someone emailed me about how like they worked at a bank in like the eighties or something, and they're like, we were told like two stories about commodity financing. One was the salad oil scandal and the other was that our bank had loaned a lot of money against frozen shrimp and there was some scandal and default and that was why they served so
much shrimp in the bank's cafeteria. I love the idea that the bank made loans secured by frozen shrimp and the lens defaulted and so the bank was like, we're going to eat the shrimp and then they ate the show.
You're gonna liquidate it.
So maybe that's what the coffee at Morgan's Papa is doing. And that was the Money Stuff podcast.
I'm Matt Levine and I'm Katie Greifeld.
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