Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, Radio News. Hello and welcome to The Money Stuff Podcast. You're a weekly podcast where we talk about stuff related to money. I'm Matt Levian and I write the Money Stuff column for Bloomberg Opinion.
And I'm Katie Greifeld, a reporter for Bloomberg News and an anchor for Bloomberg Television.
That's Today. It was an all tariffs episode of The Money suff.
I actually would be the most prepared out in any episode that we've ever done.
We're talking about tariffs, non fought for forty eight hours.
I was actually at my Grandmam's apartment last night, or I guess in the afternoon.
Talking about taffs.
Well, I was with my dad, and my dad and I both were like, can we turn on the TV? My grandma was like sure, yeah, so we watched it with her. No, yeah, the Rose Garden. Anyway, we're not talking about tariffs. We are talking about a conservative leaning news network.
That in public conservative leading. Yeah.
Yeah, I don't know what news Max does. I probably should.
They're a television channel that I know.
I've never watched them.
They've take out the vast territory to the far right of Fox News is.
My understanding of it, them, you know, and their IPO. At one point they had a market value of over thirty billion dollars, which had them more valuable than Fox for a brief moments of time. The stock has since started to come back to earth.
I don't pretend to understand this anymore. Yeah, the meme thing, like the meme ipo thing. I think of this in comparison to Trumpet Media and technology grew up the other
let's say, right wing media network. Maybe that also has a very high valuation relative to its fairly low revenue and net loss, and trump Media is owned by people who are like, yeah, great, but like News is probably owned by Thomas Pettif, who, in addition to being a billionaire Republican downer, is also like a trader, you know, Like he's the founder of Attractor Breakers, So like the ft. You got him on the phone and he was like,
he said, he was stunned by the price. I think newsbacks is a great company, and it's going to have a very bread feature, but I think that it does not warrant this high price. It was just like, you know, in addition to being a real billionaire, he's like a billion dollars worth of Newsmax stock.
Yeah, he owns the second largest steak. It was at one point worth at least five point four billion dollars. I wonder if he's sold.
I think he's locked up. Really, I think like to ask him, like, are you going to sell? And you know I can change before the long most big sharelders are locked up in IPOs like that. And it's funny, like for the same reason that the thigh prices, some of the commentary that you'll read from enthusiasts is not always well informed. And I read someone being like, what will Newsmacks do with all of this capital while they use it to become the next big media, Like they're
not getting any capital. It's just like the stock is trading in the secondary market. You know, there's like a real move among meme stocks that if your stock is meaning, you should get off at the market stock offering so you can raise money from the people who are buying your stock in the secondary market and pushing out the price. But you can't do that a week after your IPO R three days after your ip Newsmax is not selling any stock. I mean they sold stock at ten dollars
before the run in the stock. But they're not making any money from this. This is just secondary training.
They're not making money in general. They lost seventy two million dollars.
These are separate things. If you're a meme stock, you don't make money in your business. Do you make money selling stock? But they're not even doing that.
I'm old fashioned, mad, I like to go back to the That's true. I guess it's hard to predict what will become a meme stock. I would not have guessed that Newsmax was a candidate.
No, not really really.
Apparently, Chris Ruddy, though the CEO, was going on like cable news and pitching the IPO, which I didn't know. Had I known that, maybe I.
Would to a TV channel.
Yeah, that's true, but he was going on others, not Bloomberg News. To the best of my knowledge. On the podcast, I that's true, Chris Heiretti, if you're listening, I want to talk a little bit about the mechanics of this IPO. I was chatting with Bailey Lipschultz Bloomberg News about this. He's my go to guy. Yeah, on funky things. He also covers IPOs, which is a really poetic intersection. So this was a regulation A plus it's a mini ipo.
Okay, mini ipo?
Yeah yeah, I didn't know that. And the reason I found out is because I have another Matt in my professional life. His name is Matt Miller, and he was like, wow, the bank must have really mispriced this. And Billy made the good point that because it's a reggae plus ipo, they can only raise up to seventy five million, So it's not like this was mispriced or anything.
I mean, you can solve your shares. Who are the banks?
Oh, I'm so excited. Do you ask Digital Offering LLC? Oh? Yeah, yeah, Business Insider. I don't think you've seen this yet. Business Insider, just as we're talking about this on a Thursday, published a story titled Meet the tiny investment bank behind Newsmax's rip roaring stock debut. Laguna Beach, California based Digital Offering LLC was the bank behind this. Can I tell you more facts about them?
I want to hear all of the facts about them.
I'll tell you at least three. They have ten full time registered banker, three of whom act as principal investment bankers. They typically advise companies valued at a billion dollars or less. Those are actually all the facts I have. But I have a quote from Mark Alenowitz. I hope I'm saying his name correctly. He's a managing director there. He said, the Newsmax, as you might predict, has been huge for them. The small cap community knows who we are, but the
rest of Wall Street didn't. But now they're on the map.
So I'm still highly open the idea that the bank's miss priced today because like I used to be an equity capital markets banker, I think of like, well you do an IPO is you go out to institutional accounts and you build a book of institutional accounts and you put some stuff with retail. But you go to an institution and you're like, well we lost seventy million dollars
one hundred seventy million over revenue. There's some cap to the valuation you're going to get, right, And if you trade on the secondary market to retail, there is not that cap or any cap right, Like you can be a thirty billion dollar company for briefly if you have those kind of numbers. And so if you go to institutional investors and say this is going to be a memes talks that are prising it at two hundred dollars,
they will laugh at you. By the way, I don't want to say black Ben tried that, but like.
A little bit, a little bit friend of the show.
Front of the show, Black they did it. But I don't think that's the case here because the Reggae plus offering done by a small bank might have been you know, it was for the small cap community. It's not like they're selling this to fidelity necessarily. Yeah, so maybe they did misprice it as a meme matter. I don't know.
I don't know. Well, it'll be interesting to see their follow up to the newsmac's debut digital offering LLC.
It does feel like a real golden age for like a certain sort of like banker who is happy to work with memestock companies. Right, stuff going on? Does it going on that, like, you know, not necessarily everything wants to be doing.
I don't know, I feel like the golden age might have been twenty twenty one, like these are like the kind of thing or yeah, obviously you're still having some memes stock IPOs, but there's just not a lot of IPOs and I don't know.
A lot of that's right, looking at a relative golden age for the yeah memes stock bankers compared to the you know, large cap it's true tech bankers.
Everyone else could talk about circle you know what to also in IPOs, this one hasn't happened yet, but it's going to theoretically circle of stable coin fame has filed for an IPO.
Yeah, they filed like a long time ago, but their filing became public this day. They filed like under yeah, another special IPO rule, which is you can file confidentially, but now they're unconfidential, so you can read their filings.
Got some numbers. One hundred and fifty six million dollars, that's their net in. That's on revenue of one point six eight billion dollars in twenty twenty four. My only simple question for you is how does the stable coin make money? Is that just because they're backed.
By how they're making Yeah, that's it. So oh yeah, it's the best business in the world. And it's actually like, it was surprising to me that their margins are so low, and it's it's a little interesting why their margins aren't one hundred percent. Yeah, but no they make money by like they take tens of billions of dollars of deposits
from customers. You know, I read about this. They don't directly put it in T bills because I think my explanation would be like that is too much of like a banking function or a financial services function, and they're like a fintech. So what they do is they take all the money and they put it in a black Rock money market fund that puts it in T bills.
That's amazing.
Effectively, they put it in T bills and they pay black Rock to be a sort of like adults custodian in their T bills. Yeah, they put someone in bank accounts, but it's like eighty five percent T bills. They say they make a discount to sover, but they kind of make T bill rits and then they pay as a first cut zero percent interest to their customers. Now it's
like quite right, it's basically right. So they're making you know, four percent or so on tens of billions of dollars, and that might be a slight exaggeration, but it's like, you know, they're making a lot of money, and then where does it go? I mean some of it is like they have expenses because they are a tech company. They're building for sure, technological infrastructure to transfer stable coins
on the blockchain, et cetera, outside et cetera. Another big part of it is like everyone knows this is a good business model. It's not quite it's quite a business a winner take all business model, but it's a little bit like you want to be the most liquid stable coin, and so they are paying platforms to be like a preferred stable coin, so like they're the stable coin of coinbase, and like there's a partnership with coinbase, and if their coins are held on coin Base, like they're paying Coinbase
a lot of the interest. Right, They're paying fees to buyance to be on binance, So there's some amount of like, you know, this is a good business, and so the customer acquisition cost is kind of they're paying something.
But it feels like it's only a good business when rates are high.
So, right, it's such an interesting business because it's stumbled into being a good business. It started. The stable coin business started when rates were low, and everyone was like, well, it's fine if we don't get paid interest, because it was interested. You know, you don't get interest on our
savings accounts, on our money market account. So it's fine. Yeah, And now the rates are high and you do get interest on your money market account, and the stablegin issuers are raking in money, and there are reasons that you can't just easily natively get that interest on your stable coin. Yeah. Think one reason is, like you know, that's like historically not how it developed, and like you know, the biggest stablekind issuers have ever liquidity advantage and they don't want
to pay interest. But another reason is, like there's securities, a lot problems with doing it. If you were paying interest on a stable clin it's not in like the sort of crypto e gray area where it's probably fine. It's a money market fund and it's security. And I mean this is at least the sec theory as of
four months ago. And one thing that I have written for a long time is that clearly people are going to just start issuing interest sparing stable coins that are you know, registered money market funds that trade on a blockchain. And if you look at the Circle IPO documents, like they talk about that, like they have an issuer that does that that has like a small money market fund and they are doing essentially an intersparing stable coin that
you can convert into like their regular coin. And they kind of hint and I'm sure that there will be more of that and like ultimately some of this, like free money, will be returned to customers.
Why am I thinking of black Rock and Securitized don't they have something everyone has?
Yeah, has a tokenized market fund circle I think owns a company that does it in addition to like having their stablegoin money out of black Rock fund. Yeah, everyone's doing it. Franklin Templeton did it, like in twenty nineteen. I watched their Recognize one remember that, Yeah, And I was like, why is it not called the Benjamin And no one had a good answer.
I am excited to see how this is received when it eventually does become public, because I know, you know, you think about all the other like crypto equities. I imagine this is going to trade similarly to the price of bitcoin, even though maybe it shouldn't if it's I mean, it's really just a money market fund with a lot of I mean, like you know, as a first cut.
Their business is kind of like what is the market cap of like their coins outstanding and like the market cap of stable coins outstanding does have a lot to do with like demand for crypto.
Yeah, that's true. It's not as direct though, as like no micro strategy owns a ton of points, so it's not exactly a proxy. It's obviously not.
A pricy for bitcoin. I always think about like Golden used to say that, like their business is at on global GDP, and like the stable grend business is a bet on like crypto GDP. Right, like if if crypto is booming, like there will be more demand for stable clins Now they're separately like a competitive dynamic and table coins where like they might lose out to other stable coins. And there's like the business model of like we get
interest and don't pay. Interest might be compressed and they might have to pay more interest, like you know probably speaking like the more crypto there is, the more people will want their stable colin.
I wonder like what the pitch to buy circle shares is, especially if we have billions.
Of dollars we get paid interest.
That we don't pay, interest rates go down, Like what's the point.
The pitch is? Like we are building the future of financial infrastructure, Like there's like the real upside case is like five years, the way that you normally pay for stuff will be with a regulated US stable clin instead of venmo or credit cards or checks or whatever. You will boop some circle coins to someone, right, Like, that's the upside case.
It's kind of coin to think we'll still be here in five years. Yeah, right, man. You know we were talking about right leaning like social media networks boy x X, Twitter x X now part of x a I holdings. Yes, man, so I obviously immediately thought of you on.
The chronic layer of Elon Musk's mergers and this technically.
Yeah, I thought about texting you, but I was it was done.
You spared me, right. I remember saying that it seems like.
This though, isn't like that huge of a deal, Like this didn't rock your world as much as some might have expected it to.
It's the biggest mn A deal this year. Yeah, and the second biggest, actually maybe the first biggest is Elon Musk's very biggest I mean like from like the Bloomberg table, which counts announced deals including announced hostile deals. And the biggest deal this year is Elon's deal to BioPen Ai, which is not a deal. It's just a bid, and it's not it's not really a bit, it's a piece
of warm. It's hard. But the second biggest is this deal, which is a let's say forty five billion dollar acquisition or like a you know, one hundred and twenty five billion dollar total enterprise value of the all stock merger. It's pretty big deal, except it's like, you know, it's two companies he owns, or now one company that owns.
I want to talk about valuations a little bit sure, because it kind of feels like the Xai valuation. You could poke a lot of holes in it.
So a couple of things. So XAI, the Ai company, bought x the Twitter company, in an all stock deal. So xa I assumed let's say twelve million dollars of Twitter debt, and it paid let's say thirty three billion dollars of stock for x What is thirty three billion dollars worth of stock?
Mean?
Well, it means if you value Xai at eighty billion dollars, then you give Twitter, you know, thirty three eightieths of that, and that's thirty three billion dollars worth of stock. You don't have to believe eitheraluation. What actually happened was that, like, they merged at a ratio, right, the people who owned Xai got eighty one hundred and thirteen so of the company, and the people who owned Twitter got thirty three hundred and thirteens of the company. And that was the ratio
that happened. They could have been worth eighty dollars and thirty three dollars right, or they could have been worth eighty billion dollars and thirty three billion dollars or any other number in that ratio. So you don't have to believe the valuations. And it's interesting, like the last round where Xai raised cash, it was like, I think at a fifty one billion.
It was fifty one billion in December. You did point out that in mid February, Bloomberg reported that Xai was canvassing potential investors for a ten billion dollar funding round that would value it at seventy five billion dollars. But I think that happened.
X raised money recently at a you know, I've been saying thirty three and forty five thirty three million dollar equity evaluation, forty five billion dollars enterprise eye, Like that
was a weird round. And one thing about it is like Elon Musk put in some money, and in hindsight, you could sort of be like, well, they were doing that to like print a trade at that price, so they could justify doing the merger at that price, because like you know, there was like talk of like X being down fifty percent from where he bought it, and I think it's nice for him to close it out
at the price that he paid for it. Yeah, but like you know, you don't have to believe any of those valuations because in a rough sense, like what happened here was that Elon Musk owns two companies and he's mushed them into one company. It doesn't matter what the valuation was. Now that's not quite true because there are minority shareolders in both companies, but like they're like along
for the ride. They don't they don't get us say that they're not going to complain about the valuations of any of these things.
So I mean, are there any anti trust concerns here at all?
Like ABC anything I mentioned, Like you know, usually you have some delay between signing and closing because you have to like fill out anti trust forms. But someone pointed out they're both owned by the same guy. Anyway, So
there's really no antigie concerns in many respects. The thing to say I had this deal is those companies were already the same company, So it doesn't really matter for antitrust, or for fiduciary duties, or for valuation or for anything else that they're emerging, Right, It's just like, yeah, sure, it's like he's reshuffling the paperwork for his own companies. Yeah. The one thing I'll say is, like why did he
merge them? One possible answer is that these are kind of the same business and so like one reason that I think Elon Musk has a bunch of separate companies for all of the different ideas is like you want to have like the companies have some focus and have the employees of these companies have shares or options in like their one companies. They're really motivated to do a
good job for that one company. And so like Tesla and SpaceX are doing different things, so like move people between them, but like you want to pay the Tesla people in Tesla options and the SpaceX people and SpaceX options. And I think that like there was a reason to separate x and XAI because like AI was really hot and he wanted to like raise money and like get
employees and pressed doing AI. But like increasingly I think that they're the same business, which is that you collect a lot of data like natural language of data and information from the Twitter user corpus, right, and then you feed that into models that are built by AI engineers who work at XAI, and then you produce a large language model you distribute through Twitter, right, Like their model is distributed. It's like a.
I know what GROC is is because of Twitter obviously, but that's like that's not weird.
Like every AA company is different, like trying to figure out business models, but like a lot of stuff is like there's a consumer distribution right where like open ai among other products, sells access to you know, you could like subscribe and have chat GPT, right and you pay the fee every month to have like the consumer version of Chat GPT and GROC is like that, and like their distribution is through X and so it's increasing and
it's like this is the same business. It's like the inputs and like the outputs are through X and like the model in the middle has done through so like everyone should be kind of working for the same goals. And like motivated the same way. So we should merge it so that like the employees are getting incentivized, yeah, to help the whole system.
Well, it's a nice reminder that like nothing truly matters. And I guess that my experience on X as a user won't change, So I'm not particularly fussed about this. I do want to go to the second element in your.
People were like, you know, like I wrote about this, I got a lot of people have been like, but now they're going to like steal all your data. They are It's like they already were, like they all like the commercial relationship like already existed X. I was already paying X for like data and distribution, and like it was already standing all your data sort of using all of your data for sure. So there's no there's no real change, I don't think.
I do want to go to the second element in the Musk Mars conglomerate that you penned. You're right, nothing is permanent, and if one of the company succeeds while another one has some temporary struggles, the winner can subsidize or buy the loser. Talking about Musk's portfolio of different companies, this.
Is like Tesla acquired Solar City years ago and a deal that people suit over and they kind of kind of looked like a ballout of some Yeah.
Well you could see the reverse logic and like Tesla buying Xai in a distant reality because Tesla is really in the hurt locker. But I don't think Xai could buy Tesla. It still has a market cap of something.
They're saying buying it would be a merger. Merger, would be a stock merger, and I think it would be hard for a number of reasons, one of which is, like I just made the case that x and xaire the same business. Yes, this is a different business.
Yes that's true.
He's overlap or you're doing AI stuff to make the self driving cars, but it's a pretty different business.
Hasn't he said that he wants Tesla to be an AI company.
I might, Well, it is an AI self driving car comp company, but it's very different, you know, but the way there's some overlap, but it's not the same business model or distribution. But then also like this deal is so easy because they're private companies. M M. There are shoulders other than him and both of these companies, but like they're there because they him. They're not going to complain.
Dessa is a different situation, right, Like, every shareholder in XAI or x is there because they like trust Elon Musk and they want him to do stuff right, and they will give him a lot of leeway to do the stuff he thinks is good. Many vocal retail investors vocal institutional investors too, and Tesla are like that, but not all of them. No, Like, the one thing that exists in Tesla is there are people who like really don't like Elon Musk who will buy Tesla stock in
order to be able to complain about Elon Musk. Right, Like I read this week about the controller of the City of New York, Right, Like New York Pension funds own a lot of Tesla stock. This is not because they're huge Elon Musk fans, right, Some of it is because they're like sort of indexy. Yeah, but also you just do it to be like, I'll keep an eye
on that Elon Musk character. All own some of his stock, and so like the controllers sent a letter to like the legal department of the pension fund saying we should sue Elon Musk because he is distracted by his role in the government, and he is advocating policies that are bad for Tesla, and like you know, they're like you say, Tesla's in the hard locker. It's because like you know, there's like boycotts and and stuff because people don't like.
That's one part of it.
But yeah, yeah, sure, right right.
The ha'd some pretty ugly delivery numbers, which I think some.
People, including the control of this city of New York, would say is in part due to slackening demand because people are mad at Elon Musk's politics.
Right, I'm also anti EV, and I think that I don't know they've reached their addressable market on the.
Side, all right, But like if you think about the people who are like in the addressable market or like people are like I love an EV and the people who are like I also love far right politics, like you know, there's some disjunction there anyway, though, So like the New York might sue for like securities fraud for doage,
which is you know, a real everything is security. But anyway, my point is only that Tesla, if it were to merge with XAI, would be all SARTs of lawsuits that you don't have when it's all private companies.
That's true. Well, I guess it would make more sense with SpaceX since they both make things that go fast. But that's a gross over simplification.
There was that time I think all the time that Elion must treated that the next Tess the model would have rocket posters and be able to fly, And like there were articles that were like, how feasible? Is this just a public company saying this stuff? And you know this is like seven years ago?
Did he mean it back when it happened things mattered back then?
Well?
No, no, a little bit seven years ago.
I actually don't know, might be any number of years ago. It's more than three in.
Less than fifteen pre pandemic. That's why I think about things.
Should we talk about substitute teachers?
We absolutely should. Have you seen lately what substituted teachers in Maryland are making?
Seven million dollar.
Louise? What are we doing?
Yeah, So there's a story about like a Maryland state audit of like the Prince George's County school system that found various administrative errors, sloppiness, And the one that I was drawn to is that a substitute teacher taught for like three days, and they entered this teacher's information into the system to some them like a you know, check for their few days of work. And they put the teacher's ID number into the hours worked field, and the ID number had more digits than you want in the
hours work field. And so they sent the person a check for seven million dollars. And they noticed that fifty days later and asked for it back, and the teacher gave it back. And I just like to do it. Imagine what this person did. You've seen this person on the gender of the teacher. I imagine what the teacher did in those fifty days, and so do my readers. There's a lot of emails about this. Most of them were to the effect of, you take that money, you
put it in a money market fund. Fifty days later, when they ask for the money back, you give it back, and you keep the thirty to fifty thousand dollars spending exactly how you count the tens of thousand dollars of interest is yours to keep. You're briefly the owner of seven million dollars. But you you know, you can collect interest on seven million dollars, and it's a meaningful amount of money.
Absolutely, that's like.
The most reasonable thing that you can do with it. The other thing that someone sent me was like, you should go to a trading firm. This is someone who works like a trading firm. He's like, you should go to like an insurance company or trading firm and buy
insurance on this. You should be like, I will give you this person's had like three and a half million dollars, three and a half million dollars, and if they come to me for the money back, you give them seven million dollars, and if they don't, you keep the three and a half million dollars. So you're paying an insurance rooom for. Are they going to ask you for the
money back? Now? I don't think any trading firm would do that at fifty percent odds, But you could give them like six point eight million dollars and someone might take that trade and then you keep the two hundred thousand. You know, the trade you can do.
Maybe I would love to know what this person actually did, though I don't think that we can get this person on the podcast out.
On their checking account for Are you sure? No, that's sure?
I mean, this is the whole point of what we're reading. But you are magic seven million dollars, You're just an ordinary person. You just leave it in your checking account.
You weren't magic, you were mistakenly paid it. Yeah, Now there's a range of things you can do. You can call the school system and be like, you mistakenly paid me seven million dollars. Teachers seems not to have done that. There's a number where I would do that. You know, if I was accidentally paid, you know, an extra two hundred dollars, I would probably call. Really I don't know, I mean, but.
Yeah, I don't think I would have noticed.
If I were accidentally paid an amount that I noticed, but that would not materially change my life, like really materially change my life. I would probably call and be like, hey, I'm a nice person, let's sort this error out. But it's not really does like, let's see where.
This goes, right, See, I'm the exact opposite of you. If it was it's hard to do this without talking about numbers. If it was seven million dollars, I would probably call because that is so egregiously an error. There's like no way I'm going to be able to keep this. If it was far less than that, like not enough to change my life, but enough that I could might. If it was enough to buy worth a young Greenborough horse, I would probably not call about it.
But like that, when you spend it on the horse, you would like the next day go out and buy a horse.
Well, I'd have to find the horse first, you know, Okay, like while you're.
Test riding, there's a good chance that the last for the money bag.
That's true. That's true. I wouldn't spend it immediately, but I would start the process.
The choice is not like you call and say, hey, there's an error here, or you keep the money forever. Yeah, Like there's the vast middle ground if you don't call and you worry, right, which is what this person did, right, that's not keeping that money.
I probably would not spend it immediately, like in any situation, but I'm not really an impulse sure.
My favorite reader email about this, yeah, came from someone who worked at a bank and got overpaid. He was mistakenly paid like a bonus or something, and it was like not seven million dollars, but it was. I think he was like a young person. I don't know. It was tens of thousands of dollars, and he says he consulted an employment layer and learned about the time period for letches, which is a legal concept of like basically, how long do you have to wait before you don't
have to worry about anymore. It's like a statute of limitations for stuff like this. And the lawyer told him it was six years. Wow. He waited out the six years.
Wow.
And he's like at the end, I threw a claim has lapsed party. That's awesome because they didn't ask.
The money bag man. That is a great email. But like I just.
Imagine like the mindset of like this money has been mistakenly deposited my account. Let me ask a lawyer, like I reade one's about the city group error and one, yeah, I know when they send the nine hundred million dollars to Hedgehunds that were mad at them, and the Hedgehts kept it. I wrote about the Hedgehunds consulting finders keepers lawyers because like they did actually like bring a claim,
being like no, we're allowed to keep the money. But like there are finders keepers layers out there in the world, and you can consult one and be like you have six years. If you get through six years, you can keep the money. And he did.
I would love to have gone to that party.
That sounds like a party.
Yeah, that's a good theme. I love a theme. That's a good one. It's a good man.
It's not I got a mistaken bonus. It's six years later. They haven't asked for my mistaken bonus back. It's so good.
I wonder if you told the bank, oh, it's not.
That's a good point. Probably not, but now they know I should say this is not legally pace.
I have no idea what the city group.
I know that would be too perfect. Hi. Yeah, yeah, siting here. Check. And that was the Money Stuff Podcast.
I'm Matt Levian and I'm Katie Greifeld.
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