24: Handle with Care

FAQs with Adam curry for February 5 2020. This is episode number 24 I am so happy I recorded this earlier in my basement what a great track Paymo I you know how I'm doing good man. How are you? I am doing well. Yeah, Shoe Man. This is, of course the podcast sometimes known as that a das podcast only in certain circles. And we're I guess we're a day later than we'd hoped and apologies. But it's always going to be worth it because we have I'm sure a

dynamite show lined up for you. Not that I actually know exactly what we're going to do. But I do have a few things to follow up on. Oh, just a couple things to ask him one to follow up on from our last show Moe. First of all, Super Bowl. I know you're a big football guy. This is the only the only football game I really

will definitely watch. I'll just tell you briefly, I felt the television production was very kind of sparse and flat a didn't see all the typical flying stuff and the stats and you know, just I don't know, it seemed like pretty sparse. But what I missed was a lot of hype about, I think, was would have been the third black quarterback to win the Super Bowl tonight was that underplayed this year? Because he's like half black or what was going on?

Yeah, if you've noticed, they don't put him in the black quarterback conversation. Have we seen this before? I mentioned this before in the Colin Kaepernick episode, that they treated him the same way. They didn't mention that he was a black, right. Until Until it's my roommate. That's what threw me about him because I was like, yeah, he could be maybe. Right. But But yeah, you see the same thing with my homeboy. Yeah, as well. So okay, because I found I think one article, but it wasn't even

like a massive M five M publication. I was just like, yeah, that's kind of odd. Because I looked him up because yeah, I personally did not pronounce his name. You know, me, Mister sports guy. So then I figure that out. And I say, Wait a minute. So his dad was this and then you know, they're all major league baseball players. And then finally a phone article. You know, his dad's black, his mom's white. And it's like, okay, well, where's the hype? Nothing knows. Just thought that was weird.

This is the test textbook example of being racially ambiguous. Yeah, I've used that term before. And this is no sleight against him personally. No, but but the corporation that the NFL is. I think it's a conscious guy you do. I mean, because when we you juxtapose that to levar Jackson, a real eight off black quarterback? No, I gotta go to Google. Live art Jackson. Yeah, Lamar. I can hear half people going. Oh, Lamar. Okay, gotcha. Mark Jackson. Yeah.

All right. Player. Yeah, they're the best two players in the NFL now. Because Lamar even won the MVP. 9% Sure. He went to MVP, but Well, mahomes won the MVP. Yeah, last year. That's what I'm saying. Oh, we're so weird. Gotcha. Do you have these two men that are technically both for Black? But they both Athos? Yeah, I believe I believe Holmes father is eight or eight. Jackson's parents are a das as well. So. But yeah, I'm just saying the way this. Isn't that interesting,

right. Isn't that interesting? Because because I hadn't heard anything about it. And I'm like, maybe he's more Latinx or something. And that's why I went on a quest to go figure it out. And it's like, well, this is odd. All right. So that's the script. I guess everyone's fine with by the way. I love the way the mahomes plays is fantastic. And he's what? Eight years old? Yeah. believable. really young, really young. So.

Yeah. All right. The other thing I want to ask you about Trump's State of the Union, which now I was going to ask you this last night? Actually, we're going to try and do it after the State of the Union. And I'm glad that we waited because I think that there there was a very obvious to me very clear message towards black Americans. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, can we go back for a minute to the Super Bowl? gonna feed it No, it's gonna feed.

Okay, you're talking about that. Tuskegee Airmen. No, no, no, because he appeared on both the first break the super ad break. Oh, yes. Trump's ad. You're right. Of course. What am I thinking? What a transition. I should have done that myself. Nice. You take our partners. Yeah. There's two of us, ladies and gentlemen. So I'm sitting there watching the game. And then I see it. I'm like, Oh, he did it. He has the prison reform commercial. Yes,

exactly. And it's in the first ad block, which is your main, which is the prom spot. I think we like second commercial. In the first slide. Yeah. So that's like the, like the perfect spot. And it's like, targeted right at the black voter. Now I'll turn it back over to you. Well, okay, so that was going to be my question is what do you think of the spot? pandering? Did it hit there? Was it on target with what was your What was your thinking?

I saw a tweet today. And it was from I think Breitbart on Van Jones now is saying, Look, Trump is doing something for real black people. Yeah. Just a Das is now real black people. I don't even think he meant Adolf specifically, but he means Pete black people that you can relate to? No, God, when you look at the guy from Ohio, that got cleaned up off the drugs and you're saying, right, right, right. You're talking about the State of the Union now? Yes, I'm going going back and forth.

That's fine. That's fine. We when you look at the lady in criminal justice ad, these people could be your aunt or your uncle. I mean, they're not these crafted. Super Black people. Stop. Okay, helped me identify super black. Okay, what I mean is they didn't come out to Ivy League schools or super intellectual or Cory Booker. I wouldn't even say him, I would say like the pundits that you see on CNN or MSNBC, they're not relatable. Okay, gotcha. Well, you see him as

like, Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. That could be my uncle. That could be my aunt. That could be my, the little girl that he had for the school choice. Yeah, that could be my little niece. That could be you know, these are real. Black people. Yeah. And when I saw that ad out me, I saw the article title. I didn't get a chance to read the article, but I'm guilty of doing headlines. I just didn't have time today to get to it. But I was like, yeah, they are real people.

Alright, so what did you think of? Did you watch the Super Bowl with did? Did you talk about it when you saw the? Yeah, actually, me and my mother in law. She's probably the biggest Hillary hater. Oh, is she? Is she a Trump lover or not? I would not care. Oh, I would say that. She appreciates his honesty. Oh, wow. And, and not the truth but his honesty it is that he is who he is kind of what is that? Is that? So me and her had these conversations. But

yeah, she she couldn't stand Hillary. Especially when she found out she threw a Bible to a Bible. That was that was a wound. Yes. What did you think of the of the ad? It hit her. You know, I mean, her kind of look, we know, like, you see that? I was just blown back that he actually ran a political ad during the Superbowl. But I understood it though. I understood. Exactly. It was snowing. Alright. So there was a lot of similar type messaging in the

State of the Union. I, I personally from a television executive standpoint, just like yes, totally nailed it. You've got you're connecting a personal story to each and every one of your outcomes. Like, yes, this was incredibly good, but there was a lot of a lot of black and brown faces, essentially. So he had the redemption story. Like I said, with the guy from Ohio, give yourself up the opportunity. So single mother HBCU there crowd with? Oh, yeah, he hit that one.

Yeah, hit that one right off the bat. Yeah, I mean, it was kind of like, wow, like you're really going after convincing black people that you're not bad for them. That's it. That was my takeaway. That was my takeaway. And this contributes to my theory of the negative vote. Right, which which, you know, I am of course preaching this everyone Eric, because you've run, you run the numbers with me, and he

doesn't really have to chip away at that much. And I think Van Jones in that very same piece that you referenced, specifically mentioned, you know, black men. Yes. And so there may be an appeal there. So I like I said, just things have been bad for them. This is argument if things haven't been bad for you, especially, it's not as bad as they say it was gonna be for you last four years. So you just let me finish up here. And it's gonna work out

for you. That was my takeaway from the whole convincing anything on Black Twitter. I think the silence you had to we have to look at the silence. We had to look at negative the negative or the missing the lack of and it wasn't like, oh, yeah, a lot of hate. I didn't see a lot of hate. For the, for the State of the Union. Right? No more in the mean, like than usual, right? It was like 1.0 Look at Trump Panther. i That's one where I didn't hear that he

was pandering. I didn't didn't come across my timeline. Interesting. Okay, well, good. Thank you. Thank you for thank you for giving me your thoughts on that. Just because obviously, I'm sitting there thinking, all I can think of is fuck, what is Mo think of this? I didn't go shit like what this this sounds sounds like he's doing something good here. I don't know. Nothing is really no maybe that historically, black colleges and universities that that could be considered some form of a

tangible thing. But you know, the word reparations will never come up with Trump. And I'm glad you you walked me into the perfect segue because if the ads won't work, and the I'm presenting your case to the American public one works specifically the black American public, then maybe clip number one will work preferences. Hey, can you be bought and sold? Yeah, can you? Well, that's what's going down. Remember that pastor, that guy? I think his name is Pastor Scott in Cleveland, the big Trump

supporter. Basically, it's just been like riding for Trump for a long time. Well, they've got this like coalition with what they're doing is they're holding events for black folks, black folks, and they're given the money to vote for Donald Trump. And it's working. It's kind of sad, because they're given people that really are not going to do the research. And some of them I hate to say to our low information voters, one issue voters. I saw this. I saw that you reply to a tweet about it and went

looks pretty tangible to me or something like that. I wasn't sure how much sarcasm was in there. But I think it was exactly the way you intended at least I know, knowing you. I thought that was pretty funny. So this stems from a political article, Trump guy was Trump give cash cash giveaway for black voters? Yeah. They're saying allies of Donald Trump have began holding events in black communities. And we spoke about these events in a previous

show. And he says we're organizers lavished praise on the president and they hand out 10s of 1000s of dollars to Lucky attendees. So now when Andrew Yang was giving money away to no that's math, rather that's just math. That's just math, but now it's low information. Dummies dummies. Let me explain to who was speaking. That was Russ Parr. Are you familiar with Russ Parr? No. He's kind of like a knockoff

Charlemagne? No, no, you're a guy. Oh, Tom Joyner torrent Tom Joyner he kind of like a knockoff Tom Joyner. Okay. But except he hasn't he has a job still. isn't getting paid, though. Because Tom Jordan is not getting paid. Now Tom Jones has done it. Yeah, he was saying he was basically working for free those last couple of years. So you'd be you'd be surprised. You'd be surprised how shit radio has gotten. I'm talking like 12 bucks an hour at Sirius XM, believe me.

Right. So he calls people like these people that's taking the cash low information voters and they're basically being duped. But I want to give you an example of the kinds of commercials that he plays on his show. We fix money if you need $640 or 850 to $2,500 Just go to WWE. It's money.com and get the money you need as soon as tomorrow we fix money.com is free to use and available 24/7 And you don't

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these days. Yeah, totally. So you're make you're willing to serve your audience up to predatory lenders. But then you talk down on people for taking cash for monetizing their vote, which I'm gonna tell you, it's fine. Okay, let me explain to people, what we're talking about now just gonna be a sub segment. I mean, just a sub little section of the show, and then we'll get into the real show. But ours really so irked by this because these gatekeepers are pissed that basically voting is

turning into some form of gig work. Because I don't need a big structure. I know I'm gonna take my cash straight to the people. Give it to them, and then they'll go out and they'll perform the task of voting. The if the if these claims are true, and I'm looking at it from both sides from the yang side, and the Trump side, put the money inside the people's hands. And that's why I did say it tongue in cheek this is something tangible, but it is yeah. Okay. somebody's giving you $1,000 for

your vote. These these thanks, probably the same people been talking was it? I thought it was me. I thought it was like 100 Is it was that 1000 When the article says they're handing out, of course, they're gonna embellish. And they said the article says they're handing handing out 10s of 1000s of dollars to Lucky attendees. So that could be the total sum could be 10s of $1,000. But if I wasn't gonna vote, or you're gonna give me 234 $100 To vote

another way. Hey, that's this. That's more on my secret for you. I'm not knocking you. Ace tangible. Down with it. It's your right. So. But let's get back to Mr. Ross Parr, and he's just nasty talking down talking to black people. Donald Trump gave me money. I don't care about kids in cages. I don't care about s hole nations. I don't care that he's lining the pockets of all his rich friends. I don't care. All these policies hurt me. Oh, yeah. He's that a couple of

people out of jail. Yeah, prison reform. It's great. But you don't want to be a one issue voter, y'all. You just don't want to do that. But now, you can be bought. Is that easy now? So this guy, Mr. Scott, they're going around Cleveland and other places. And they're saying, Okay, I'm gonna give you a couple of 100 bucks. All you got to do is say, Yes, I'll vote for Donald Trump. Because he's not so much for black people.

Yeah, well, this is I mean, this guy has clearly it's obvious what his position is and what movie he watches. So how to kids in cages help black people. How did it come? Because he said, we're one issue voters if you're taking the money, you know, these, you know, these things are hurting you kids in cages as emigration. And I'm not saying I don't condone placing children in cages. But what I'm saying is this the topic behind the talking point, immigration,

yeah. shithole nations immigration. You know, when you become into one topic, we've been on one topic vote voting bloc for forever, for two years. Now, now oh, now all of a sudden, say you get your sentences together. You know why? Because he's been cut out the picture. If the cash goes straight to the people, gatekeepers have no purpose anymore. Well, of course, but it's I don't even know if he sees it that way. What, what is this air what networks is?

Syndicate syndicate? Yeah, he's syndicated. So he's across. I've lived in Durham, North Carolina, and I live here in Northern Virginia and he's on stations in both areas. Afternoon show, morning show. Morning Show. Morning. This is all morning. But yeah, he's like, Oh, this is harmful to the New York community and and this next clip is really going to hurt me. Some people use administrations refer to them as colors. There are good colors and there's bad colors. But listen, y'all,

you've got to be informed. You can't. Well, I can't tell you what to do. But don't take that money. You're selling it out, you can be bought. We have to have some personal integrity. We have to do the research to find out what he stands for and what he doesn't stand for. The man could care less unless your name is diamond, diamond and silk or maybe that Pastor Scott and maybe ARMSTRONG WILLIAMS. I don't know. But he's got a few people Herman Cain, you know, usto nein, nein, nein. Yeah, he

started another organization. I think it's called Black voices for Trump. And they're doing the same thing. They're going around and they're buying votes. Okay, what what are you color people? You're offended by that. But the Democrats call you people of color all day long. And can I just can I just say something? I know you're mad. I know. You're mad. I'm sorry. I got a bone to pick. Yes, since the last show. I cannot stop hearing. Pete people of color. I

hear this everywhere. And it's an I'm seeing the like the former campaign PR for Hillary Clinton. Maxwell was her name. She young she got the OG hair. Beautiful woman. But she's like, she keeps saying people of color people. And of course what after you programmed me and everybody else. All I hear is kind of people. I'm like, holy crap. And then I hit and of course, we got to we got a lot of we got a lot of colored people on TV lately.

We got who's the RNC, the former RNC chair. And you know, just a lot of a lot of people walking around and I hear it all the time now. And I think yes, I should just mo can no can't be MP. How'd you get to go back and do Sumo? How'd you like that? People of Color halftime show. I mean, that was I got a homie on the brown and lighten the black. Yeah, I got I got Yeah, I got a whole I got a whole bone to pick with that.

But yeah, I digress. I'm just saying, but just yeah, you know, I was thinking, this could actually be the the first podcast I ever participated in, we're going to come up with the exit strategy early on. Because I'm thinking, you know, soon we'll have facial recognition technology for everybody. And it's coming and it's just a matter of, you know, who's going to pay for because it does take some processing on the back end. But everyone's so available and scannable that we'll be able to

have an app I'm gonna call it the A das app. And you basically just point the your phone at somebody and and they'll say, a das or non a Das, because this is what I'm missing when I hear a das pin clearly a das people saying people of color, I'm just I'm confused. But maybe it's just, it's just the setting. It's working. Oh, no, that's got me. So man, John DeVore at the John DeVore. I had a little DM and basically, I told him that people of color equals non

white, which equals not important. And he agreed. Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he agrees. It's like he looks like saying the blacks that's his lashes lump them all together, like in his nice little ball. That's manageable. And there you go, but Mr. Russ Parr has a problem with color people are he I'm sure he uses the term people

of color. But let's listen to how he portrays Asian American people we were good yeah, congrats because you guys celebrated Yeah, you guys that's why you black men talk about black everything black and black and you have to come in a half a huge boost First off, you're being very disgusting right now. Or your new boss as you can just call it my Kim and all that came and Sunday already calm you're while you're still you're celebrating you know whether you even celebrated for your goodbye mailing.

So this is a bit obviously. Yes. This is a reoccurring character mailing that works in a nail shop. Yeah, yeah, you know, I gotta tell you, we're only 10 years apart or so. But this is I come from the time on the radio, we had these characters you had, you had the crazy, the kind of crazy Chinese guy you had the guy worked in New York radio, you have the guy from Harlem, you'd have Mr. Leonard who was in from Mars, you know, so and all these it was, and I think

I'm talking about late 80s 90s. And everyone seemed kind of the laugh about themselves. That one away, so it's hard for me, I can't get mad at this, like, all right. And it's there was some funny pieces of it. But I'm not mad about it. I'm saying the hypocrisy of Sure. You know, if this was on a nother show that lack melanin, it'll be you know, forced, they will be trying to counsel there. Yeah,

advertisers, of course, yes, you're right. You're right. And not only this, but he also portrays black people in a very negative way. On the majority of his show, I was very hurt by this show, period. Tell ya, this guy, really. I'm gonna wrap this up. So let's just get into the clip number four. Some pastors were paid years ago to take money to influence their congregation to vote for George W. Bush. And they did and there's, it's been proven. That's what they've done.

Because a lot of y'all just listen to your pastors, you noticed that like how my fault you're like sheep. It's okay to take this money, even though I'm gonna hurt some people. Yeah, you have a little personal gain for a moment. But the long term effects, so many people are damaged by it. We have to have a mind of our own. I'm not telling you not to vote for Donald Trump. But if you do your research, you find out that he does not have your best interests in mind. He doesn't.

It's simple. That's just my opinion. You know, we're not monolithic. Were we all built the same? Those are your opinion or fact, bro. least have an informed decision as to whose money you're going to take in order to be bribed. And I don't know how legal that is. But I guess so figure a way around it because the President is above the law. talking point and nobody wants to hold him accountable. But you can. And November 2020, yes, this year,

you can hold them accountable. You can vote. That's my rant. That's his rant. Oh, please. This guy is besides. Yep. I mean, I don't know if he's really influential. But as a broadcaster, he's mediocre. I mean, he's just repeating. I mean, I could do a show like that. I can do a minute of talking points. And then seeing the great value of Tom Joyner, brother. That's what he is. But it's just that I'm not telling you not to vote for Trump, and we're not a

mana Lipsense win. Right. Since we're have we not been a monolith when it comes to voting will run the numbers for me again, what a percentage of and I'll say the black vote, because that's what the kind of using does not have to vote Democrat for basically to be all over for a democratic Democrat candidate. Well, 2012 it was 67% turnout of the black vote six when Trump Yeah, when Trump won in 2016. It was down to 59%. Right? It's very, if it stays at 50 to 100, drops even lower. You can't make

those votes up. You can't make them up. I think you were saying that really? is a matter of maybe five points. Yeah, I mean, if it just stays at 59 they need they need it to be around 65 67% To have a chance to win. That's why they lost in 2016. And that's what they don't really want to talk about. But this is why everything is people of color, people of color, people of color, you know,

every Can I think I watched the Iowa caucuses very closely. I wanted to understand it and I'm glad I did because became super entertained. Certainly to watch broadcaster struggle for hours on end to fill time. I think I heard at least three candidates

all use the people of color term. And then of course, subsequently Of course I heard everywhere else that actually the caucuses are completely racist because only white people can come out on a Monday night and blah, blah, blah and only black people babysit for the white people who can go out on Monday night. It's like okay, fine, whatever. Like not always like 90 something percent white. Of course, black swing vote, it was gonna really shake things up.

And I mean, we even covered this in the last show because that's exactly where they had the people of color Summit. whatever it was called. Advice. Yeah. Yeah, yes. Yeah, exactly. So knock it all. So let's let's do a pitch on the off some more. Let's do the the last. So this rant is from another rant. And he's and it's a convo with a Trump supporter. All right, this, this following statements that I'm about to make are not applicable to all white folks or other groups that

may see their entitlement slipping away. Oh, but I was on a flight and I was wearing my Make America Baroque again, hat. The guy asked me what it was all about was talking about, it's about a better time. And you can order it on up to par.net. And this guy got, I could see that he was getting a little irritated because obviously, he is not a Barack Obama fan, which will I'm cool with it. But it was an intriguing conversation that we started to have. I mean, he got comfortable and very

candidate with a glass of wine. And he said a lot of things. And his, his ideology was like a white nationalist. I said, God, this guy doesn't even know that he's a white nationalist. You know, he's, he's putting all that out there. And I'm sitting there going, man. But what he said in so many words, he says that Trump has made them realize that most whites are being discriminated against in America, in favor of minorities.

So first of all, this was no low low in canola information voter because clearly they're sitting in first class drinking a nice glass of wine. Right, so I'm going to take that with a grain of salt. So yeah, so this leads us into the real topic of the show. And the topic of the show is what happens, allegedly, when a white person attempts to defend their perceived privilege that they have. Oh, nice. This is about me. Hold on a second. Let's rolling round and

round and round. Ladies and gentlemen, the real of topics mo facts with Adam curry, and we stopped today on the lucky topic. That is, today we're going to talk about the concept of white fragility. White, that's the term white fragility. Yes. White Guilt is easier to remember fragility three syllables. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. They're not the same. No, I know. I know. They're not. Okay. I gotta have you heard this term before? No, no, I

have not. I have not. This is new to me. I found this maybe several weeks ago, and now like, tucked it away. I was like, I got to look into whatever this white fragility was bookmarks. It's like is that even snow flakier than snowflake? If you're white and in your fragile? Yeah. It's an aggressive fragile. Okay. Oh, what we have here is miss the Angelou Her name is who came up with the term. Her name is Robin J. D'Angelo. She has a PhD in multi

modal, multicultural education, of course. And in a 2011 academic paper, she put forward the concept of white fragility. So this is a somewhat new term. I'm going to welcome in Robyn D'Angelo, she's a sociologist, American sociologist and the author whose book is here, it's called white fragility. Robin explain what is white fragility? Well, social life is patterned and predictable in observable and describable ways. And racial inequality is a very consistent

pattern. And so is the overall light response to it, or to when that issue is raised. So what I'm doing is describing one particular common white pattern, and offering an explanation not only for how we come to have that pattern, but also how it functions. So the pattern is the defensiveness at any suggestion that racial inequality exists, and that each of us is a part of it. And that's the only way you can define that. So it has to be the STB all all of the above?

Yes. So. So basically how it works is if I say Hey, Adam, you have white privilege, you say no, I don't. And I say well, you have white privilege and white fragility. Wow. I remember The first time I was called out as having white privilege, and it was at a dinner party, and it's it's gonna be four and a half years ago, maybe. And it was a professor who I respect from the University of Texas. And I'm

like, What are you talking about? I'd never really heard the term and I certainly never been accused of Oh, and they literally like you have white privilege. So what? What are you talking about? You have white privilege, you can't deny that. And it I was it was really uncomfortable. And so I guess that's I would have been, I would have had white fragility there. That pushback that you gave, I'm sure after you left. It's like, how about curry his white fragility?

Well, I wish they had said that to me then. So I could have known I was violating not one but two principles of nature. Yes. So what we're going to do here is we're going to examine this term. This woman is white, this Robyn D'Angelo? Yes, yes, she's, she's a white lady. And she coined the term and then later wrote a book about the term which I think this, these terms, these. Oh, that's how you get one, you know, you read a book about it and say, oh, there's this term. I made it up.

Yeah. So we're going to, we're going to look at how it came about what it is, we're going to look at a counter argument against it. And then how it's determined is a person that has white fragility or not so And will this will this episode also give me the tools so that I can defend myself against not just falling into the white fragility trap but against white fragility in general? Correct goggles. Gotcha. I'm sorry, I'll shut up.

Alright, so let's get to the second part of that clip. The term fragility is meant to capture how little it takes to set us off from any white people. The mere suggestion that being white has meaning will cause great umbrage generalizing about white people will cause great upset and umbrage. But the impact of that umbrage is not fragile at all. It functions as a very powerful way to repel the challenge and to protect the racial hierarchy.

I like this episode, because I get to think a lot harder about myself. I agree with a lot of what you said in the in the beginning of that clip, but at the end, this protect the white hierarchy. No, fuck no, not for a second. I don't give a shit about that. I remember being accused of of white privilege for the first time. So it's in my mind, and I did not think of oh, I have to protect the hierarchy. None of that. So that's just not with me, at least. I'm not your typical

white guy. But that's what I want it with this show to bounce this idea off. And this is typically these terms are bounce between two white people. Yeah, totally. Totally. I have. Obviously I've never heard this term, so I can't use it. And I've never heard a person of any color rule. You would go on there. You stopped yourself in time. But you know, I was gonna say out person. I was gonna say good. I was thinking about not just black people I have never heard

because I work with a bunch of different ethnicities. I haven't heard correction, I call it person. use that term. So it's like, Hey, where'd this come from? I read I mean, want to be like par and just call them Coloureds. Come on, man. You can do it. Yeah. So I'm in. I'm in the loop. And I've never heard it. And when I heard it, I was like, Holy crap. What what is this term that she does use? I mean, it wasn't even her. It was a I forgot where I

heard it. I heard it. I'm not clear. It was like a pundit talking or whatever. So I jotted it down. Oh, sure. It's, I'm sure that this I'm sure it's out there. I'm sure people are talking about it. But this goes back to the real black people or the real people. And real whatever, fill in the blank person that's non white.

We don't use terms like this. No, this is stuff that circled around, you know, went to in the Help across academia, society, and it's like, ah, you know, contemplating, you know, my white fragility and, you know, I just really need to do more to give back to the, you know, yeah, I think I think these types of terms and concepts I think, hurt everybody. I don't think it's good. I don't think

it has any positive awareness is always good. I think a lot of people are, you know, this person's racist or whatever, you know, ignorance is, I've discovered through, you know, just my friendship with you that ignorance just didn't know. Yeah, so there's a lot of things that may You'd come across as racist, but purely ignorance. And there's got to be some something in your heart or souls got to be there for it to truly be racist. And then, so you get these kind of compensation terms.

So let's just revisit my definition of racism, which is just a form of nepotism. That's, that's how I see racism. So if you say, Adam, you know, you got your job, because your dad's the CEO of the company. Of course, you're going to rebut that in black. What I worked hard for where, you know, I worked hard for whatever position I have in this company. It's not just

because my dad gave it to me. So that would be like, a form of not white fragility, but like nepotism fragility, because it's like, yeah, because it's like you're, you're invalidating all the workout done and the same simply because of what I am not who I am. I got the spot. Right. And it's it's purely an assumption. Right. So that's, I can understand the pushback. But it's like a trap. Yeah. Because when when you say somebody has a privilege,

yeah. And then you say, No, I don't like Boom. Oh, yeah. Nailed him. Shit. I fell out of that one. It's like Lucy and the football twice. Is that Topher? It's like yeah, yeah, pray with the camera, Julie. fertility. Yeah, left in a hook. Which is a perfect trap. I mean, if that's what you set it up to be totally. So let's get into the third and final clip of this segment. In your research, and I read the first few chapters of white fragility, not all of it. Do you think most white people are

racist? Without realizing it? Yes, I don't think it's possible to avoid absorbing racist worldview and racist biases, because they are circulating 24/7. In the culture, they're in the language. They're in the institutions. They're in the media and the film. They're in the overwhelmingly white teaching force and curriculum and the the centering of a white worldview, but positioning it as a universal human worldview ash. So what we're actually have missing from there is white

supremacy. And that makes people recall, because it's like, I am not a white supremacy denier. Right. I believe it exists. But just like racism, I think people don't understand these terms that they use, and they use it incorrectly. And it does nobody any, any good to throw these terms around because it really like weakens the term. Definitely. I want to go back to throwback clip, just so we can define define what exactly. White supremacy is?

Well, we are on a system of white supremacy. That's the most powerful government that the world has ever seen. And that's the title of it. By the way, it doesn't go by now the title even though we sometimes call it by other titles, but the accurate title for the government that we are under is in capital letters. The system of white supremacy worldwide is just one world government. And that's the only government and the only

government on the planet that really counts. That is worthy of having a title of government. Yeah, I love this clip. It's a I think it's a true mo facts classic and break. I'm glad you brought that back again. That was a fuller, right. Yes. So when we talk about this thing, I want to make sure we use the correct definition. Some people call it the Illuminati, some people call it you know, other New World Order is he said,

that's another one liberal world order. Yep. So but what these secret societies or wherever you want to call them are based off of our really bloodlines Correct? Yep. So I think we define white, this wrong. And we don't understand the origins of race. No, excellent point. So I have Miss Danielle Bainbridge from PBS, and she's gonna give us some history on the origins of race in the US.

But these racial categorizations didn't always neatly align with skin tone, and his book whiteness of a different color, European immigrants and the alchemy of race. Historian Matthew Jacobson notes that in the US, white or Caucasian was not always considered a unified race. Composed of anyone of European descent. Whiteness was often considered exclusive to

Anglo Saxon descendants. While other European groups were broken into different ethnic categories, such as CELT Slavs, I barracks, and Hebrews, which were considered separate races from the 1840s, to the early 20th century, but in the 1920s, when there was a stemming of immigration from Europe, these different races were subsumed into one category called whiteness to shore up a cultural majority against other racial groups and immigrants. And this persisted throughout the 20th

century. So how does it all add up? Well, race started as a marker of kinship, but then we see it shift to become less about familial inheritance, and more focused on physical indicators, due to the rise of enlightenment reasoning and labor exploitation. But where does that leave us today? Yeah, this reminds me, I want you to delve into that this reminds me of a story, which that Barack Obama through bloodlines is related to George W. Bush.

Which, which technically? He is passing for white, or could pass for white. Yes. I mean, we want to use the term of passing. And it's a couple of things. She said in that clip. One, she said whiteness or the term White was created to shore up a racial majority. Doesn't that sound eerily similar to what we're going through now when people kill him up? Yes, that's exactly what it is. Of course, this is this is beautiful, beautiful. And so then you have people wanting to pass and to

white and whiteness. Yeah. And we we talked about talked about before it it wasn't about my origin or my size. This is interesting, because going back to what, what's your face said? Robyn D'Angelo which had protecting the hierarchy. Well, I can see where she may have a point there if you're talking about bloodline hierarchy. But of course, that doesn't make me white then, because I don't have the bloodline hierarchy.

But once you were lumped into that racial majority, then yeah, it allows you certain privileges to be to move without being accosted, or when we're talking about right after slavery or doing slavery. We're not talking about now. Yeah. So if you appeared and a lot of black, black people that passed J Edgar Hoover, you know, he was allowed to move if he was seen as a black man, and he was doing what he was doing and for spying on people. And he went and got that far. Not certainly not in the

day. No. So he took advantage of passing to take advantage of that privilege. But it's, it's a it's a very fluid thing. And when we say white, they don't, most people don't even understand what that means. It means that you're part of a superior class. And the coolest thing that we have to white nowadays, it still still exists is the monarchy. Yeah. And in Great Britain. Yep. That that is literally white. And even you know what I'm talking about mix it. Megan, Megan Megan Markel.

She couldn't pass to be white. Right. Even though she was up here to beat me if you didn't. That's why she had to go. Had to get rid of her. Right. Or she couldn't. She couldn't handle she couldn't. She didn't pass the passing test. So you gotta go because it wasn't about skin color. I mean, it may hit on it on the surface. Maybe But no, it was like you don't come from this. Right. And then then and then life yeah. And then the Queen went Hold on a second that that redhead isn't one of ours

either. Get him out. Both of them couldn't pass. Yeah, no way. So that you white is a very exclusive club. The tech the real textbook technical, right. And if you could do me a favor? Could you play like the last 2030 seconds of clip number 13. One more time. I just want to define what we're talking about when we say when I say why. Okay, the last 30 seconds, sure thing, Celt, slobs, I barracks and Hebrews, which were considered separate

races from the 1840s to the early 20th century. But in the 1920s when there was a stemming of immigration from Europe, these different races were subsumed into one category called whiteness to shore up a cultural majority against other racial groups and immigrants. And this persisted throughout

the 20th century. So how does it all add up? Well, race started as a marker of kinship, but then we see it shift to become less about familial inheritance and more focused on physical indicators due to the rise of enlightenment reasoning and labor exploitation. But where does that leave us today? So when I say that term, I'm talking about familiar inheritance, which Barack Obama is, is by that definition white? Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And I'm Megan Markel is not or, or even a

Prince Harry is not quite correct. So I just want to lay things out. It's, it's, it's a mind bender. But yeah, these are the two definitions. But this is exactly what happens over the ages, and doesn't even take that long, the meanings change, they get kind of smoothed over becomes an acceptable term. So I'm gonna throw something out there it sticks. And then before you know it, it's all changed. And that mean, Words matter? And words matter.

That's just like when you say black? Yeah, black 30 years ago. So I'm totally different than it meant that it means now, you have to have a I digress. But I just wanted to lay that out. So when we talk about the term white, we understand what we're saying and what people have proximity to and trying to align themselves with. It's not it's not a pigment of your skin or color your skin, but it's this power structure that people want

to tap into. But one guy that always tells the truth is Mr. Dick Gregory, and I don't have to ask you if you know, of course, of course. Of course. I love Dick Gregory, of course. Gregory is going to explain white supremacy versus white privilege. The one of the things a lot of people will commenting on and after watching your videos, they want to know what your thoughts are on the difference between white supremacy and white privilege.

White supremacy, people who got white primacy get killed by white supremacy, people who have white privilege still have to go to the military. The big folks don't go white supreme, they just break the word down. White and I'm supreme. It didn't say supreme to Nick us. Supreme to anybody who ate my blood. Simple. So good question, you guys. And thank God you shut up long enough to hear and answer.

Is that one of the last one of these YouTube videos? I remember, it's just Pete When that first came out people like what? And who is this guy? Like? Yeah, let's do it. Gregor. He always beats up on the interview. I mean, like, trademark. So but as he said, it's about bloodline, that they have no PDF, send them poor, quote, unquote, and I'm gonna use this term because I use it for blacks, quote, unquote,

white people to go dark for whatever reason. Yeah, I mean, they just whatever you say, It furthers I won't send my son or daughter Some do, but majority now. We're above that. We don't do that. And I hope at the end of this podcast, hopefully it didn't take that long. But we realized that we're all in the same boat. Yeah, exactly. Unless you're supreme. If you're out there and you're supreme, you should stop listening. The only get worse.

Or use that privilege. Right, exactly. Yeah. Spread the word. But the Gregory's doing such a great job. Let's let's let's let him continue. Called the answer is in the name of the richest man in the world. They don't have to ask why he's in what I told them. what I'm calling a little bit see white in a color. Most of the only never met a white white person. They never met a white person.

White not a colles attitude. And if you ain't got trillions of dollars in the bank, you can't have the attitude. Here's the thing. I've actually met her. Really? I met the Queen. Yes. I met her at the palace. You didn't know that? I did not. I learned something new. Every show. Wow. Yeah, they picked me up. And they actually if you look at Buckingham Palace, right through the front gates, and now it was not the only person it was for. It was for the relaunch of Her

Royal Highness his website. But still it was it was only like a handful. It wasn't it wasn't like hundreds of people. And I was in the line and yeah, and I said hi and I had already decided I was going to look her straight nei Anna was not going to bow at Nationals. She's standing on a box because she's four feet nine or something. And I shake her hand is glove. And I look her in the eye and you know what I saw? slits? Nothing man.

Dark, just nothing, nothing at all. I was looking to see if the eyes would like go reptile, but they didn't. That's what I was saying asleep. No, I know. I know. I know what you're saying for the for the people out here. So you're wondering few people to actually met a real white person, an actual white person? Yes. And severely unimpressive. To be honest. I mean, I don't want to insult anybody. But I wasn't

like, oh, this got some sheen. I mean, I'm Steve Jobs. Quincy Jones, I put those way higher on the list than to them the queen. Now I'm about to blow your mind here. All right. You could tell that story in a different way. And use your proximity to whiteness to become supreme. Well, to use the privilege, and I can now now I can say yes. And I deserve that privilege. And I'm going to put you on your place. Okay, this is an unexpected twist. All right, I'm ready.

So now we're starting to get the people use these terms do it's not white fragility that was made up. But um, why white privilege, white supremacy, these things do exist, but people don't have whom we are accusing the wrong people of having it. That's the real problem. And if we excuse the right people, then we could get the those people out of power. And we can make the world a better place. Is that so we have Mr. DeRay Mckesson from Black Lives Matter

and his little blue vest of fame. He's gonna give his take on whiteness, white supremacy and privilege. What's the difference between whiteness and white supremacy. White supremacy is a system that says that white people are the are the norm or normative are

worth more and are valued at the expense of others. And we think about a culture that that idea spawned that is whiteness, and then we think about white people as people who benefit from the system, white supremacy, whether they participate in it actively are not. And part of this work is about helping people understand that. Allies and accomplices are people who like understand the work, they understand that there's like an issue in understanding why privilege says that I get that I

participate in a dominant culture. And I benefit from a system of white supremacy whether I've done something supremacist or not. In that is like a personal recognition. Right? Yes, all wrong. Yes. No kidding. That's why I wanted to play these two clips back to black, back to back. So you get here. One guy say most white people don't know a white person. And this guy said, Oh, it's the norm. No, it's not. That's what makes no no, it's not the norm.

In the sense that how he's saying it. That's what makes us special. That's what makes people Kirksey. In, not Jasmine. Yes, thank you. You've just answered one of my biggest questions. I did not expect this. One of my big questions having lived in the Netherlands, the Kingdom of the Netherlands, having lived in the Kingdom, the United Kingdom of the Queen's and Elizabeth's and all that. I've always wondered, why do seemingly rational people who have who speak of science and you know,

hate new billionaires? Now why do they kowtow to these ugly people who live in the biggest houses in the middle of your cities with funny hats? And say, Oh, it's just tradition, because they truly are the privilege. They are the supreme white beings. And why are that why are they the privilege? The blood? The blood? The lineage? Yep, that's right. It's what you're respecting. That's right. Thank you again, I gotta remember this. You're respecting

the bloodline. And then I was throwing of the lizard people or whatever, I can say Illuminati or I could throw in something else. But yeah, that and yeah, yes. Thank you Mo. do is they say Well, I kind of look like noon. So therefore, you must be just like him. And as we know, my personal experience is these people are nothing like us. Not like me and not like you And they'll tell you that. Yeah. Oh, yeah, they'll make sure you know, just the way they touch me.

Don't touch this. Imagine a human being is like, No, you cannot touch me. Yeah, that's the ultimate privilege. It's like you don't even you want to hand me something put a glove on that nasty commoner hand. commoner has nice. Wow. All right. So then what happened man went, I guess they were really smart. And they said, Hey, I know. Well, that's kind of what the previous clip said. But I know we'll be able to operate out in the open for secret out in the open by making everybody else white.

And let's bring it to modern day times when you have this hodgepodge of different shades of brown people. See, they will love let's say, let's just call them EQ. Oh, no, they can't say that colored people can't say black. They can't say brown because these things mean something we can come up with a term to create a political majority. That's what they said reason why they brought a lot of the immigrants in your opinion.

Yeah, we're doing the same thing. It's it's the left is just repeating what happened on the on in previous history. That's That's all we're doing. Oh, so let's let derail my cast and finish up. We want people to take that personal recognition, step further and say like, what are the systemic things that actually create this privilege in the first place, and we want them to fight at that level. That's what accomplices do. But

I wanted to tweet a lot this phrase watch whiteness work. So if you were to just summarize and like a sentence, what is your message to the white community and white people, white people are going to organize themselves, have to join solidarity, work with people of color, and have to use personal experiences to think about how systems allow privilege to manifest at the personal level. Yeah, why would they want to do that? It makes no sense. Wow. True white people.

DeRay Mckesson is clearly a white supremacist. He's in. He's in on the game. It's funded by a white person. Soros. Yeah, there you go. That's what I'm saying. It's um, so this is yeah, this is just he's propped up to say, oh, yeah, we're doing something. Yeah. But they know it's not going to be effective. But it's like, we have to do something. So I know when everybody's saying well, I thought we were going to talk about white fragility. We that's what we're talking about. Now. We just have

I'm not complaining. I'm having a good time. I'm liking it. I'm just saying we have the layout. The term one. White is two words white in that fragility. So we've defined the white part. Yes. Or demystified it because people use that term completely wrong. But now we're gonna get into the fragility part. All right, so I was listening to one of my favorite YouTube channels essence. And they had a thing about fighting racism and white

supremacy in the air on Trump era. And they had some tweets that kind of defined what white fragility sounds like. We asked you on social media, What have your experiences been like when talking to white people about race? And here's what you said. While Raven three tweeted often I get called a racist for calling out racial issues, always met with deflection denial and defensiveness. Keep it moving. 1114 wrote, most telling me slavery is over. And why am I

still so angry? Some white people don't realize that they still benefit from the wealth of their ancestors. And they by nature said simply, they just don't get it. Who, huh? Those are some really interesting comments. What are you all? So these are people interacting with, quote, unquote, white people, and they're experiencing the pushback of white fragility against them when they call them out. So that's what that's what

you just heard. So now we're gonna get into debunking the myths of white people, white people tell about race. I'll never forget a moment of standing beside a black man leading a workshop on race and a white woman said to him, I don't see color, which said, well, then how are you going to see racism because I am black. I do think you know that, and I have

a different experience than you do. And you're not going to be able to understand that and you're not going to be able to support the parts of that experience that are really painful and problematic. If you refuse to acknowledge my reality. I don't see color is really a way of saying I refuse to acknowledge your reality.

Yeah, well, again, I think it's just ignorance. That's it. And it's it comes from a defensive, you know, as a white person amongst white people, you're on the defensive all the time. But Witten isn't that what Dr. King was pushing for? I'm not naive. What I'm saying is if you use the left rhetoric, and they're No, of course, the way they king as a control mechanism, we talked about this on the on the MLK

show, he's using a control mechanism. So it's like, you know, one world and we're all we want to be judged by content, our character and not the color of our skin. So wouldn't a goal to be not to see color? I would judge you off of who you are, how you talk, how you carry yourself, you know, you're off your capabilities and qualifications. Yeah, well,

okay, let me try this one on for size. Okay. Because a white person, or just say, you know, a light skinned person, in the context of what we're talking about isn't, you know, that's not white people, white person or white person. In that context with Martin Luther King, it sounds like it's a good idea. It's like, okay, I heard that by the color of his skin, by the best character. And so it's a logical leap. But that means that you figured it out, you know, so we had to put you back

in your place. yt, we got to say, no, no, you can't figure out that color doesn't matter. So we got to give you something. This is a long term propaganda of terms where people start using something then we got to push it down again, because we found it's, I think it's ultimately all about control. I totally agree. And the control mechanism is we have to keep one group in their victimization mentality. And in order to do that, you have to lay with them a color them self identify as

that color. And then you had to get the white people to buy and say, no, no, no, no, no, you cannot not see them as a color for this for this scheme to work. It's wrong again. Why do you have to be black? Yeah. By the definition that we label black or a colored person or color, however you want to call it? And then you have Adam, you have to be white. You have to you have to see the colors. Yes. For this whole we can't come together have this conversation. No, no, there's got to see it.

Gotta constantly be reminded. Yeah, so it's despicable really.

And even a black friend won't save you what's important about that narrative is it reveals what the person thinks racism is so if the person is using proximity fondness across race as evidence of a lack of racism in order for that to be good evidence a racist must not be able to do that so that rests on an understanding that a racist cannot tolerate proximity to people of color and I'm hoping that we can see that's pretty absurd because trust me even

about races can tolerate being around people of color and often are. Here's what I often say. They said I do a podcast with a black man I mean don't have the camera on or anything but I do the podcast with him this is This is really embarrassing to hear some of this stuff. The knots people twist themselves in on all sides just to conform with the fucking control mechanism. It's it's mind blowing I hadn't really thought about it this deeply.

Well, I found this interesting product that you can get Adam when you find yourself in that situation. Oh, it's called racism insurance. Oh, well this is groovy. I can I can I can barely afford health insurance now I need racism insurance. Well, there's an eyesore jingle that tells you exactly what that is. Oops, I was raised as black I come here. Thank God for racism insurance there when you need it most racism insurance when you find yourself in that jam, yes.

Racism insurance. Have you ever seen Kentucky Fried movie? No, I haven't. Yeah, you should. If you have a chance Watch it on Netflix one of these days and then we should talk about it some interesting students in there. Yeah, just to remind me of the racism and I don't want to blow the scene but yeah, right. Right. Right. But yeah, that's that's when the black friend won't work. Yeah, go out and run out and get yourself some racism insurance. Right. Oh, my God racism Sharon's.

So she goes on to say that it's actually race that divides us. First of all, we're already divided by race. And focusing on races is not what did it I would say, not focusing on race, refusing to grapple with how race shapes virtually everything is what keeps us divided. And that is a very white narrative, all of those narratives function to get race off the table, close the exploration, exempt the person from any further engagement, and protect the racial hierarchy in the white

position with it, which is an unequal hierarchy. The challenge I want to offer my fellow white people is changing the question from if to how so dominant culture asks if I'm racist, and I want to change that question to how have I been shaped by the forces of racism? Now, she threw, like a curveball at the end. I thought was going to be how am I racist? But then it was almost like and she said something completely different. I wasn't expecting

that became a whole exercise. Hold on, let me say it and here's how have I been shaped by the forces of racist? How have I been shaped by the forces of racism? How translation How have you been made racist? Oh, by other white people telling you so. So I want to make it clear. And one nice, long, I mean, I had to watch so many seminars and retraining re education. Jesus Christ. No, I rarely hear you take the Lord's name in vain.

Man, I was like, ah, is it gonna ever end I was thought I thought I was gonna have white fragility there for a minute from the RE education and she was sick. I mean, they had these people in these rooms like make their buy in like, oh, this by the way, I put a pin in this one. He said I would love to do a show if we can pull it together about training,

diversity training. You know, the corporate stuff it's every company has it and I think there's a lot there that could be really good, but a lot that could be damaging for all and this is the type of person they were bring in. She wrote a book on it and yeah, what was her name? I actually watched it her name is Audrey had asked me again, the Angelo Oh, that was that was that was the same woman Robyn D'Angelo. It's all Robin got all her. All her kid a troublemaker? Yeah.

So they bring her in. And she does these reeducation. Oh, wow. reeducation camp. Yes. That's what she's saying is you want to identify how you're being made braces. And then we need to rewire you basically, that's that's the whole gist of this whole thing. Oh, yeah. That's, that's what the term means. Re education. Sure. Yeah. So of course, I scoured the internet to find the counter argument. And I found Mr. Paul, Dr. Paul Maxwell, let me give

you a little bio him. It says Dr. Paul Maxwell, PhD explores the intersection, theology, psychology and politics, marketing professional expert and celebrity franchise branding tech publishing nonprofit and higher education. And most of all, he's a podcaster Hello, now I don't know who it is. Yeah, sure. Right. Well, well, where people will you google him? I need to give you this this disclaimer. Dr. Paul, Max will zero now you probably think less less. I'm kind of kind of bald,

you know, kind of look like a skinhead. Like where's this guy going? Right? Like Listen, I'm not about to go on some like white rights pro pro white rant. I'm not okay. Yeah, I saw I did look him up. Okay, yes, I can see What's this guy doing? Yeah, yeah. Just natural reflex. I was like, let me let me see what what as I do everything I was your bias. You were you were judging by the thickness of his hair as usual.

Well, no. The baldness of his scalp. Yeah. To be more specific, but he's trying to give a person people a mental image of who we're talking about before you Google while you listen to the show. If you ever seen the movie higher learning, he looks like the character Remi high on learning, which was a skinhead. I'm just telling you, yeah, yeah, just honest. Opinion. And when I saw him, I was okay. But I was like, Okay, I'm gonna hear this guy out, because that's what we do here.

Right? We hear both sides. And he has a very interesting take on white fragility in 1.1. So we will begin by talking about a particular book. This is a book by sociologist Robyn JD Angela. And she writes in her book called white fragility, why it's so hard for white people to

talk about racism. And she's a white female and and the Angelou writes that white people are so dazzled by their whiteness that their own regular normative, explicit and implicit reasons for violence against racial minorities are actually camouflage to them, so they almost can't even conceive of

themselves as racist. But not only are these racist practices camouflaged to whites, but when these practices are brought under the stage lights through conversation or reading, or cultural messaging, and when they are diagnosed or highlighted and challenged by minority culture, such that white cultures enchantment with its own whiteness is threatened, that they resort to denial tactics, which refortified Their enchantment with whiteness and center their own whiteness and

recenter their own whiteness as the Cultural Center and the cultural norm, and recast minority ethnicity and culture as as marginal and exotic. makes you sound psychotic. Really, if you hear the way it's being explained. Well, they use another word besides psychotic, and we're gonna get to that. But I have a question for you. Adam. When's the last time you've been dazzled by your whiteness? Well, let me tell you more. In fact, no, just today, my wife

and I were taking our dancing lesson. I looked in the mirror because it's a dance studio, and I thought, Wow, you dance like an idiot. Yeah, no, of course not dazzled by whiteness. Crap. who use these terms? Man, he's, it's just fascinating. But isn't that just projection? I'm sure. I mean, I see this picture of her I immediately you have all kinds of preconceived notions about her. I just I don't like her just the way she

looks. i It's like one of those people like okay one of these troublemaker? I know exactly what you say mean when you say one of these because she is the and I want to use lack of better word stereotypical ah, what was her profession and multi multicultural education. I was just about to look her up as a bachelor's like political science with a you know, the, with a diversity minor or something is so obvious. Yeah, I mean, just the this the look, I mean, and we're not

judging people on looks. It's like when you see a person like, Oh, yeah. This whole show is about of course, we're judging people on looks, don't don't fool yourself. Look, but the way they fit into a stereotypical role PhD in multicultural education from the University of Washington, with a dissertation entitled whiteness in racial dialogue, a discourse analysis. Alright, so let's just go straight into 1.2. Okay, so in other words, D'Angelo makes two simultaneous

claims. One, whites are peculiarly mentally weak, especially when it comes to race. And two, she's able to make individual psychiatric diagnoses of individual whites by using their race as a proxy. For diagnosis, three shields licensing, anyone who drinks the Kool Aid, have this white privilege concept to extend that diagnosis to individuals with whom they converse who actually happen to disagree with them about this issue of white fragility or race or white privilege or so on and so forth.

So it's a lose lose? Yes, of course it is. Yeah, and it's one thing I didn't fail to mention here. Even in her talks and speeches or whatever else. She's not talking to your trump supporter. Oh, no, she's not talking to your idealistic Trump name. I mean, let me clarify that she's not talking to your what you picture in your mind. You would think like somebody would have Magga hat on. Oh, no. He's talking to liberals. Thank you. You're Elizabeth Warren voter. You're Bernie voter.

You're, you're Pete Buda. Judge voter. And yes, your Biden voter. Sure. So that's who she's talking about. Cuz she said, Oh, yeah, yeah. And she even said it in one of hers. It was unclickable. Cuz I would have brought it if it was, but it was like, in a roundabout way. She was like, You guys are really the biggest problem because you say you don't have it. Right. I have black friends. I live in proximity. What what do you what are you even thinking of saying?

Right? Right. So that's what she's talking to. That's our audience is, this is not, you know, she's not going to Middle America with this conversation. She's well, well, hold on. I put this in the show notes she did for the University of Kentucky. That's the south a two hour racial justice keynote and breakout session in March of 2019. Excluding travel expenses, housing, accommodations and meals, she also got $12,000. So maybe we shouldn't mock this too

much. And we should figure out how we can get in on it. I'm thinking Oh, my God, good money. Racial Justice podcast with breakout session, I will come up with something mo I think, Oh, wait, maybe people could consider donating to the show. See, and I'll just do it here. Since we're talking all the way. And we're going to start thanking people next show will be the pls. Yes, yes, the potluck special. And we're going to thank people. But this is

going to be a show with different shorter topics. And this is going to want to do those from time to time. And so it's going to try something out. Similar to the how the first segment of the show was these many Yes, diverse topics. And we will have three or fours to five topic timing I ever to fit in together, it won't be one long stream of consciousness, it will be segmented and that. And it's my fault people. I see your donations, we much appreciate

him. But me being the AMO perfectionist, perfectionist that I am, I haven't found a great way of introducing that segment to the show. But we appreciate all the value we get in. Please hit me up on social media. In the DMS, if you've done a RV, if you haven't donated and I like to have the conversation push back because I get a lot of questions and things that challenged me to think so I really appreciate. And this is running under the value for value model. And here

you go. It's if if we were taking our exact knowledge changing a little bit, but even the stuff we're talking about right now, that's worth $12,000 for two hours, excluding travel expenses. So we expect to receive at least that go to mo fund me.com M OE f u n d.com? No, seriously, it's whatever value you place on if you thought it was valuable. And with our two votes to buy. Yeah, whatever. Vote for your guy or gal or what are you saying whatever. This is, right. We're not embarrassed eight.

vermin. So did my guy, vermin Supreme is my guy. All right. So let's continue. I'm sorry. Let's get back. That was perfect timing. Let's just get back on track. And you made a claim that you said it makes you seeing what way? psychotic? Yeah, psychotic or egomaniac. Maybe. That's not necessarily the word they Paul uses. But let's let's listen to.

So she argues that white people are so socialized by their whiteness that they cannot without proper racial education and re education accurately perceive the extent to which they're racist prejudice against minorities is baked into their own worldview. Okay, white people are in this presentation, philosophically, and specularly handicapped by their own race,

about their own race. Okay. So D'Angelo appeals to her own academic authority as a sociologist to fortify this claim that whites are epistemological, handicapped relative to other races. And it is on this assumption of white philosophical shortsightedness or handicap that programs such as racial bias training and employee bias training had been suggested as cures to perceived racism among whites. Yes, it's very similar as I was thinking about this to something

known as the self hating the self loathing Jew. Very similar in definition. But you missed an opportunity here. Oh, Adam. Yes. You get a another merit badge. Oh, of course, your handicap. Ah, wow. According to this, this is a disability. So, um, you move up on the ladder. Which by its which, by itself, in an odd way, is again advancing the white man over everybody else. Even Even, even as a victim. I'm a better victim than you.

You've just realized that you walk right into that realization without me even have to say it. Oh, no, I had the goggles off. Right now. You justify what they're doing is excuse my white privilege because I have a disability Okay, I'm going to use that. I'm so sorry. I have a disability. I have white privilege. No, no. Your disability is the white fragility. No, of course, of course. So when people say oh, yeah, you have a well, once again, Adam, do you realize you have white privilege?

I don't have white privilege. Oh, well, you're showing signs of white fragility. Adam, I know. I'm so sad about the status. I can't even do this. I I knew I need a parking sticker. For the handicap zone. I'm sorry. disabled. Disabled. Yeah, but no, no, this, what I'm saying? This is how sick Yeah, he did that. They can just label whatever we're saying. It's in jest, but it's a really it's a sign of sickness. What they're what she's doing here to say, Oh, I I know my privilege. But

you know, and I might get hurt if you remind me of it. But that's a disability. isn't a great? Honestly, I'm bad. Like, wow, you just why you think I'm a low information voter? Mo just let me lead me along. All right. I'll go right to the water. Right. So not so now you didn't go get your badge? Yeah, you can get your badge or your your sticker. There you go. I'm making that analogy. Because to say that to somebody that actually has a real problem. It really has a disability. How

insulting is that? irks me, but I didn't know. But you know what it is? It's a version of it. And I haven't fleshed it out yet. But emotional support animals has something to do with this somehow versus real, specialized and dogs. That zactly is exactly what it is. And people take advantage of that. And so they're they're literally using their bullshit emotional support. And, look, if people have real emotional problems, some of them have

animals for that. That train specifically it's ABA compliant. I've studied this from backwards and forwards. But no, no, no. I have emotional problems. Here's my dog. Now I get to board early and take my dog with me. That is that's the exact manifest manifestation. Oh, wow. mentality. Yeah. So I'm guessing you're asking well, how do you spot white fragility? And is there a cure?

Programs such as racial bias training and implicit bias training had been suggested as cures to perceived racism among whites, and this is how scientists have begun to quantify racial prejudice among whites to give them a test that shows them several dozen black and white images of faces of various races on the screen, right and classified an ability to distinguish between the faces of participants own race versus

faces of races to to which the participant did belong, okay. So any extended delay in the participants ability to distinguish between other race faces was classified as social stereotype, and therefore a low score on what they call the effect of lexical Driving score. So in other words, if you're a few milliseconds slow on distinguishing black faces from one another, you're racist. Oh, man, well, you know that AI is completely racist. All the

algorithms have trouble with black faces dark skin tone. So it's all racist, racist computers. I'm sure you wondering, what is implicit bias testing? Whoa, yes, believe me, I want to know. So I had to do some digging. I had to go real deep. And I found this Dateline NBC episode for 2007. Nice. This is how old this thing is. And do you think this was being released around the time that Barack Obama was running for president? I guess, just for context, just,

there's a, there's a correlation there. So Okay. All right. So implicit association test one, you may be saying, not me, I'm not prejudiced. But is it possible that virtually all of us have a hidden racial bias hidden even from ourselves. That's exactly what this test is designed to uncover. Here's how it works. These words and faces

appear rapidly, one after another around the screen. The test taker is supposed to link each one to the left or right box here in the center, linking positive words like friend to good, negative words like awful to bat, white faces with white, black faces with black. And it's the mistakes that are so revealing.

Oh, I had another thought while this was going, but just tell you because it just came out this show and I will make who knows how many will make but up until now you could take these 24 episodes, bundle them nice leather binder, you know, golden inlay, and sell them as educational courses. I'm thinking you know, if you really want to know about racism, white supremacy, listen to this kids and put the kids in the classroom let them listen. Then it's 1000 bucks to school.

I think it'd be far more effective than whatever they whatever just a game right now. Yes, surgery. So when I saw this segment I connective happening happening in my brain. Have you heard of the show watchmen on HBO? Yes, I started. It started a while ago, I remember watching the first episode. And at that moment, I was just like, this is just too stressful for me. I'll come back to it later. And I haven't gotten back to it. But I have heard great.

First episode I did. Yeah. You saw if you saw the first episode, you saw a dramatization of the implicit bias testing. And this is probably why it bothered me most. I mean, I hadn't even thought about it that way. You remember when the guy with the mirror mask? Yes. Took the white supremacist in the pot. And they had the pictures flashing? Yeah, yes, yes, yes. That was a dramatization of the implicit bias test. Oh, my God. They're feeding this stuff into

it. Right. They're mainlining. Man, right, right into your brain right into the cranium. So let me set let me let me let me let me back up a little bit. Watch the whole piece of shit. Thanks. So watchmen in the show, they had had this terrorist attack or whatever, and they round up all these suppose it wipes the premises, and they put them in this like circle room. And on the walls, they're showing all these polarizing racial images. And the gods

asking this guy questions like, Are you a racist? Are you a white supremacist? Are you a member of like, I forgot the name of the group seven Calvary or whatever, which is like basically the kk k, right? And like, he's taking notes why he's asking these questions. That's basically how implicit bias testing works. In a roundabout way, but when I saw when I saw this Dateline NBC special, that's when you put it out

there. Holy shit. Yeah. Excuse my language. But yeah, I'm like, wow, like they're pumping stuff into entertainment. Well, you know what's interesting, and when I'm very what you can be very proud of we both can be proud of is that my response was of rejection. And I don't know what else was going on. But I sat down I've specifically to watch it and I have time sometimes during the day, you know, I'm gonna watch an hour or something. And, and I remember turning it on. And it

was, that was my thought stressful. And you know, I wasn't completely into the story, but I think because of this podcast and my my outlook in general, but this podcast definitely has given me some kind of weaponry against this propaganda. I rejected it out of hand and hadn't gone back to it. Now, of course, I have to watch the whole thing, the whole series, but that's the whole series, but that is the Oh, no, no, let me do it. I'll jump on that grenade.

Thank you. Because it was it was like, Oh, you're trying to prod me? Yep. manipulate me. And I don't do the trauma based entertainment. But on the reason I watched it watched it, because why it was free HBO that weekend, to sell it to somebody, Hey, this is how the DNS work. And I am poor people, please reach out to me on social media. Because I love that back and forth. I can't promise you a two hour conversation. But interesting couple of just a couple back and forth. It was

gentleman said, go ahead. No, no, please. No. Somebody said you need to watch watchmen because they talk about Tulsa, and Tulsa, the bombing back and right, like Wall Street. So that's what drew me and I was like, I want to see how they how they use this historical event. You know, and I was not, you know, I was not. I promise, you propagandized it, but I want to share this and I want to share this anecdote about watching. I was in the bookstore, then it's a very good

bookstore that we have here in Austin. It's called Good Reads. Think it's a good read. No, not good reads. That's awesome bookstore. I don't know it's a it's next to Whole Foods people. And so I'm in there. And I'm looking for something that wasn't at for a gift. And I met here, a couple of young couples, so you know, probably early, mid 20s. And he says, Did you hear that they're not going to come back with another series of

Watchmen. And she was like, Oh, my God. That's why why but why he's like, Well, the producer, and I heard this and I was like, Wow, that sounds like a show. I absolutely don't want to watch if these two dickheads are so upset about it being canceled. I mean, it sounds horrible. And now I understand. These were the zombies. The program zombies were they're lucky that they didn't scratch me. They were right there. Now almost got you. Yeah,

this really good. All right. All right. All right. That's a lot of sidetracking. But worth it. Thank you. Because it was just I wanted to point that out how they feed this stuff into pop culture. But let's get back to implicit test to Dateline put this experiment to a difficult challenge testing a cross section of men and women, including some who have impeccable credentials in race relations. People like Wanda, a civil rights attorney. Okay, I'm right. Okay, here it is.

During the first half of the test, right, black is linked to bad and white is linked to good, right for Wanda, this half of the test is a breeze. She never makes a mistake left. Okay, very good. Now, we'll give you the other one. But let's see how she does when the information is reversed when the left box marked bad, has a white face. And the right box

labeled good has a black face. Last left suddenly the test becomes much more difficult for Rhonda, about a third of the way through she makes a mistake linking the white face to the right box, even though that shows a black face. I lost score indicates a strong preference for White. Is this because she unconsciously associates white with good Oh, wow. And that's the basis of your test. I wonder what the science is the neurosciences behind that. Wow.

Okay. It is blacks and pitchers good bad and then they do in reverse order. Oh, well, you missed one racist. Right and Rhonda was she was distraught. She's Oh my god. I can't believe I'm a racist. I can't believe I was bad. And there's your exit strategy right there. Adam. Is that your app? Yeah. Implicit bias Yeah, oh like to hit with a tinder element. I like it mo I

like it. Alright, let's let's finish the show up so we can start working on the design and placement test and as reveal long as those results are the biggest surprise is yet to come left left. Joan is a sales and marketing consultant. Even for many black test takers, the more challenging part of the test seems to be when Black is associated with good and white with bad. Okay, then get halfway through, we'll start over. Ready? After two attempts, she

still can't make it to the end. I've done it again. Even so Joan still thought she'd show a preference for her own race. Would you be surprised then Joan, if I said that your test showed a slight preference for Weiss? Yes, I would be. Does it shock you? Yes. I hear flabbergasted, flabbergasted. And Joan isn't alone. Dennis is the leader of a civil rights organization. According to his test in the studio, Dennis is neutral. But his individual computer test showed a

preference for White. His response, all we had in images were Whites through the type of media outlets that we were exposed to during my age generation. And that was a constant reinforcement over and over again. You're a bad person. So even even the black people are racist. But we've got to test this. It's because because of the the white supremacist television of course, of course, exactly what it is. It's not that the test can be maybe confusing. So he's

a racist, black man. But he's also has he's disabled, because it was the fault of the white supremacist media that made him that way. That's if you lean into the victimization mentality. So you have to accept it. Yeah, yeah. Except if you if you accept that victimization mentality, which I'm not Pooh poohing the power of propaganda. But if you can, it propaganda can make you unlearn what you know, what you experience? That's some powerful stuff, man. You're not kidding me.

I mean, because you're you don't have the excuse of, quote, unquote, white people say, Well, I don't know any black people. So maybe the news is telling the true maybe the TV is telling the truth, you live in experienced black people every day. So either we have to have one way either mass media is running this super powerful propaganda machine. That's nobody's immune to. Or you have to accept the victimization mentality. So

which one is it? But it's got to be one or the other. Right? So it gets even more interesting in tests for the African Americans that professors have tested. 42% show a preference for whites, a large number, especially when you consider that only 17% of whites show a preference for blacks go

left, right. And one of the other African Americans we test it right Heather is an assistant district attorney right on the part of the test where the black face is paired with the word bag right, Heather has noticeable difficulty and can't finish, she showed a strong preference for African Americans. And her pride was unabashed. That made me feel more comfortable knowing that I've embraced my culture that Randolph a high school music teacher also showed a preference for his own race.

Does it concern you at all that you have a strong preference for African Americans? Does that score mean that I do not like European Americans? No. Is my subconscious aware of the condition that African Americans are in in this country at this particular point? My conscious is over. Does it concern you? Concern you sir, does it concern you that you could possibly you know, I'm saying right. Does it concern you that you like yourself? Right and people to happen that like you? Do you have a

definition nepotism, right definition again? Yeah. Do you have a preference for people that look like you? That's the problems in these people eyes that's it. No, no, no, no, no, no. No. What is this multi layered trap? This is great. You can't it's labyrinth, the labyrinth Jack You can't escape. Whatever turn you run into it's a dead end it's like racist, racist, or your or your you know, have a self identity problems which were called by the racist television. So it's

like you narrative white or black? You can never escape You're having free thought, you know that's not an option. But it has to be a reason behind why you feel the way you feel. And being a free thinker. That's that's totally bad. For Bolton, we can't have that. You can't have that free. Thank you. But let's wrap up with this Dateline NBC on test five. All right, I'm gonna pass this one. I think I can do

this. Dozens of professors know that there's a difference in reactions between blacks and whites, when they find out they have a preference for their own race. Of course, it bothers me, but I could say it's pride or prejudice. What blacks consider a badge of healthy self esteem. Many whites regard as an embarrassing revelation. Yeah, exactly. And that's the that's the way it's designed. So he can't escape it.

Can I can I can I play a little little na jingle here that's appropriate to cuz a lot of people may not have heard this one. Be fun to play, please. Just a shorty. It feels racist. It's a pig. It just says you skin is shifting into your round. So don't have a pen. And just watch it. There you go. Everybody do what you're told. The Great Secret Agent Paul. Just do what you're told. Do what you're told. That's exactly it. And it's for all those categories when we're talking about skin color right

now. Of course, that's part of the conversation, but is a lot of its actuality, the gender all of it's in their control. So I don't like to be part of the problem to be more a part of the solution. Yes, we always love and so what I did was dug and dug and dug. And I found this training video of how to deal with white fragility in the workplace. Okay. Hey, Jen. I really like your hair. Thanks, Becky. I think the curls are awesome.

The girl says literally, Becky. Okay, let's try it again. Hey, Jen. I really like your hair. Thanks, Becky. I think the curls are awesome. Black. Here's the best. Can you do that? It's kind of inappropriate. What? Why? Well, it's kind of racist. Whoa, you're probably wondering what went wrong in this workplace interaction between Becky and Jen. Unless you have a keen understanding of racial discrimination in today's workforce, you probably didn't notice that something very

offensive has taken place. Jen called Becky the R word, causing Becky to feel shame and sadness. How can we avoid situations like this? Whoa, wait a minute. That's also a hijack of the R word. That's not okay. I want to the o g r word is now gone. We can't even use that anymore now. So let's get to you on Oh, please. This is a very informative training video. Now you said you said you were trying to be part of the solution and you give me this?

Yes. Can we not? We're gonna we're gonna we're gonna fix people. We're here to re educate. Yes, reeducation? Yes. Yes. Workplace to workplace discrimination is a very serious issue. And we have to be sensitive to our employees different ethnic and cultural backgrounds. And just as it's important to be sensitive to our black Arab and other non white coworkers, it's also equally important to be sensitive to our white coworkers sensitivity to that sensitivity.

So I gotta stop. I gotta listen to that, again. Important to be sensitive to our black Arab and other non white coworkers. It's also equally important to be sensitive to our white coworkers sensitivity, you know, we have to be sensitive for the white co workers sensitivity. Okay, just taking notes. That sensitivity Oh, shoot, I get I'm sorry. This is a three sensitivity so it's not easy to be sensitive to our white coworkers sensitivity

to that sensitivity. The what we have okay to be sensitive to the white person sensitivity to their sensitivity. Yes. No wonder kids are antidepressants. Can you believe that Trump wants to build a wall? I mean, I must really bother you as a Mexican. I Totally, I am Olivia. How are you? I went to Berkeley. Sometimes racial discrimination in the workplace can happen unintentionally. Take, for instance, this scene where Marco

accidentally angered Tom by correcting him. Marco may not be Mexican, but correcting Tom in that manner made Tom confused, scared and hostile. This situation could have been avoided altogether. Let's see how, oh boy, I'm so happy. We're gonna find out how she 2.10 My goodness, this is this is new. It's I'm trying to process it all. It's very new. You've already you had advantage here. You've heard all this once before, or multiple times. Okay.

I just want to process that one. You know, Professor Ted Kaczynski wrote in his famous manuscript, industrial society and its future, and he's a Harvard professor, you can look them up, you'll be amazed when you learn about him. He wrote that one of the problems of technology in the future would be over socialization of children. And what I just heard going back to the previous clip, with the sensitive to the sensitivity about that sensitivity, that is over

socialization right there. You're so because you're socialized and you you have to be so sensitive to everything, and to everybody that your brain is, you know, has like, is running it just 3000 RPM all the time, just to just to process all the information and it makes you tired. And then probably depressed. All right. Okay. Yes, I'm sorry. I will go to the next one so we can continue and learn about it. I'm fascinated how I can fix it. Fix myself.

Can you believe Trump wants to build a wall? I mean, that must really bother you as a Mexican. Yeah. I love Mexicans. They're so hard working. Yeah, they I mean, yes, we are. We are great. Crisis averted. That's how you Viva Mexico. Crisis averted everybody. Oh. All right. Point three. What is this from? Where did this come from? This is from zero plus, this. This is serious. No, thank god. She's like, who knows, man. This, this can be played in schools. For all I know.

There's a reason to my man. Every day, we learn more about how people of color live with histories of oppression. And every day we forget about those who also live with those histories. The oppressors? You see, the average person of color has spent years developing a thick skin when it comes to systemic racial oppression, while the average white person can go through many of their formative years without ever having to think about race. So hearing about racism can be traumatic for your white co

workers and create a negative work environment. White Privilege might seem like everything is easier all the time. And it is can also be hard, because feelings are hard. This is genius. This is very good. I like it. So this goes back to what we talked talked about. We're dealing with people, not my words. white fragility is a disability. So if you take this literally, it's on the onus of the person is not

disabled. To make their environment more palatable and yes, to the person with the disability, yes, unless, unless they have one leg that I don't know if that wins. What what I'm just saying is in this, this is a spoof, but it's not that far from reality. If you take it literal that the people that you're dealing with are actually dealing with a illness. It's on you to mold that provide that first clip had me totally hooked. I thought it was totally real.

It could be this this is the dimension thing. You were you were in one dimension. Yep. I sure wasn't looking at anything. You were in one dimension looking at it. So you like this seems real, totally real. which it is, if you take this term white fragility series on its own merit? Yeah. You tricked me was good. That's very good. Well, let's get into the solution. Whoo, I can't wait.

Being sensitive to white fragility is difficult, which is why we've devised a simple system to help you foster a non hostile work environment for your white employees and co workers. Stop, ignore, listen, emphasize, never complain. And eat. We like to call it the Cylance system. Let's watch what happens when Cylance is put into action. That's your solution, a Cylance. fillets. Would you care to see still it's in action, I would love to see some Cylance in action mo 4.1.

So I'm not racist. Stop. Like I voted for Obama. Ignore, like, I understand the reason for the Black Lives Matter movement. Listen, but it's just like, all lives do matter. Empathize. I just feel like race really isn't relevant to kind of America anymore. Never complain? You're really easy to talk to Adrian, and II? That's right. Excellent. Adrian was able to defuse a potentially hostile work situation by using sillens. Great work, Adrian.

America is a beautiful country built on some ugly things. Things that just don't belong in the workplace. And in order to remain productive, we must all pitch in to protect our most powerful and most fragile, because when sillens works, everyone works. So let's all be sensitive. White sensitive. Very good. Very, very, very good. Now there were there you have it. That is a wrap up or white fragility.

Yeah. Excellent. Mo, thank Thank you. You helped a lot. I'm going to have to review this for myself, particularly the fact that well, this is the bottom line, my take away. Let's get together brothers and sisters of all human resources and fight the real power. The true supremacy, the bloodlines, who obviously our have figured out through media, how to keep us enslaving ourselves. It's a fantastic system works it just

works like a mofo. It's fantastic. Now, of course, inherently, people who probably listen to this podcast already have some armor against this but it's what a fantastic way to unpack it. Thank you Mo. I really appreciate I always do, but this is another one of those. I'm like, Oh, I'm gonna go downstairs told Tina like oh, man, you just gonna have to cancel work. You have to listen to this. She only has a 10 minute commute now so it's a problem. Oh man, so does I know.

I hate my commute is too short. This is the kind of value that we love to bring to you. Now please consider sending some monetary value us a number that means something to you write us a note. We're going to be talking about some of those on the next episode 25 And you could find us at mo fax.com. To go directly to the donation page mo fund me.com M moefund.com. And as I always say, pay attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself

and the truth will reveal reveal itself tomorrow tomorrow. itself next week. I can't wait that's why I wanted it for tomorrow. Thank you take everybody we'll talk to you soon. No that makes me know that I can leave your past is knowing I'm not shackled by for God. And you're Ciao