20: Separate but Equal

MoeFactz with Adam curry for January 6 2020. This is episode number 21st Show of 2020. How're you doing? I'm doing well. Adam, how you doing? Man? Happy New Year. Same you, Sir Simon to you? Yes. So 20 of episode of MO facts with Adam curry. And this is the year we're gonna start asking people to participate actively and support the work I think. I think we've proven our value. I hope so last night teen I hope they found some value in it and you know, in return the favor?

Or return the favor or return the value for sure. Get the value? Yes. So the value for value system successfully deployed at the no agenda show is very simple. You listen to the show an hour, hour and a half two hours of whatever length it is, Did you get anything out of it, you learn anything if you did translate that into your own value and send it to us mo facts.com or mo fund me.com mo e fund me.com. All right, Mo, I'm excited to find out what you got lined up

for us. What are we going to talk about? All right. Um, so if people don't know this, Kanye West school spirit, and I had a little school spirit, so I want to talk about the segregation of schools. Oh, okay. All right. All right. We, we had we had alluded to this topics on a couple of other shows talking about segregation. And that's such a big topic. I wanted to break it down and maybe into segments. And we'll talk about the final stretch of the

integration price process. And that was the schools. So all right, excellent. So just to lead off, I want to start with a little MLK, I have a dream, I have a dream. That one day this nation will rise up. live out the true meaning of its creed. We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created. I have a dream that one day on the sons of former slaves and the sons of former slaves will be able to sit down together at the table

of brotherhood. I have a dream. My poor little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of our skin but by the pound Kennebec character. It's a classic, classic slip on no facts, nothing like yeah, so that's the that is the whole meme or encapsulation of the civil rights movement and immigration and the defeating of segregation. So I wanted to start off with that. It's I've said this on a show of several times that I am against forced

immigration. Forced is the key word. Yes, I think that's a universal issue. Forced and forced is never good. Especially not if the government's forcing you to do something. Correct. And the reason why I started off with the I Have a Dream speech is that's because that is where everybody is mentally set on the subject of integration, that it would just set it would it work, you know, King was successful. But even King himself has some doubts before his death. And I have a

clip of Harry bought Harry Belafonte. Speaking on that topic, last thing Dr. King said to me, before he was murdered, was in my home when he was sitting planning strategy for the Poor People's Campaign, which was on the horizon of the politics of the day. Martin said, you know, I've been thinking long and hard about our struggle. We work tenaciously for our rights. And the culmination of all that effort will be reflected in what

we've come to call the integration movement. And I sit here deeply concerned that I suspect we are leaving our nation on integration trip that has us integrating into a burning house okay, Have you heard that statement before? The burned out house? Yes. No, no, the only burning house I can think of is talking heads burning down the house, that's not going to help us. So this is a very

How can I say it? In certain circles, this is a very popular statement of Dr. Martin Luther King's, but not to the masses. Okay, the at the end of his life when you have to have a secret handshake to get into the circle? Well, no, it's not. It's not that it's that in the mastering, they would never propagate this facade of Martin Luther King. They want Him to keep him that I have a dream King, not the second guessing of burning of the house burning down. Right,

or integration itself is what is this the right move? Now is very popular in our community to the quote unquote, black community to second guess, integration, because we look at the results of it. And that's what the show was, in this episode, we're going to really dissect how we got to the point of integration and results integration. And not only now looking back, you know, because Hindsight is 2020. We're going to look at some notable

figures at the time. And even they weren't as Pro integration as the mass media, what have you to believe. So I have some clips here. We're going to start at present day and see how integration has failed to the point that schools are probably just as segregated as now as they were in the 50s and 60s. And we have the Atlantic came schools and a great kid school integration made a comeback one, the vast majority of white children living in the city have

access to a high performing neighborhood school. The vast majority of black students have guaranteed access to nothing. Do you think we're betraying the legacy of Brown v Board? Absolutely. We have defined it in every way that you can. America's schools are the most segregated they've been in almost 50 years. And for decades, the federal government

hasn't been doing anything about it. Today's typical white student attends a school that is nearly three quarters white, the average black student goes to one that's almost entirely students of color. In 1954, Brown versus Board of Education declared that segregated schools should be dismantled with quote, all deliberate speed. We're sliding back into the two

unequal systems. Brown promised to get rid of one for low income black and Latino students, and another for more affluent white and Asian students. Yeah, this is a topic that interests me a lot. I follow this in Austin, mainly because I'm a home home owner. So I'm a taxpayer, and I'm an old fart, and now I get to bitch and moan about stuff. So I've been I follow what's happening. With the Austin school districts, we have closings, and this is one

of the most liberal cities in America. It's a very odd place here in Texas. But it's big NIMBY, not in my backyard. It's always big talk big mouth, but I believe from what I understand the schools are incredibly segregated in Austin. And, and I don't know if you're going to talk about this at all, but charter schools is now you know, the cropping up everywhere. And this is on one hand can be great, but another hand, it

makes the problem even worse. So yeah, I can attest to this definitely being the case. It's amazing that we're back to the future. The main thing that they try to get rid of human nature, hey, Moe, you know, when you get to be as old as I am, you start picking up on a trend happens a lot.

You can't change people's how people feel. Right? And that was the How naive the civil right quote unquote civil rights movement was because he was like, oh, we'll just force our kids the, you know, force this love on you, you know, in in, pull it out, you know, pull the equality. You know, I have an analogy for you. Here in another one in Austin. They decided we need bikes that just you know, painted bike lanes on the roads downtown and in lots of places,

but downtown's a lot of bike paths. You can't just paint that and say, Oh, it's going to work now. And you know, cars won't be making right hand turns cutting by takes off triumphing over him, it takes a long time for these good intentions to really work if ever, there's no evidence It's working, it's dangerous to ride your bike here. And that's an excellent, excellent analogy, because the

two have to learn how to coexist with each other. Exactly. But when you force these two things that normally don't coexist, or maybe shouldn't share the same space, that has to be learned, that's why I'm totally against forced integration. Now, if you choose to want to be integrated, like our podcast, this is a choice. And we come here and we have a conversation. Wait, you're not a white guy. What? Know? What? Yeah. Stephen A Smith. I'm a black man. Okay, so I'm the wonder, Am and how can I

put it nicely? There are people that were behind the civil rights movement. Was this a kind of force anarchy? Who knows, because when you start peeling back the layers of who were, who was running the civil rights movement, the NAACP, we've talked about that extensively, who they really were, when you look about the communists, ties to the civil rights movement,

that they that's one form of protest is anarchy. So was this a form of anarchy, but we'll talk about that a little later, let's get into come back to integration worked. In 1988, the achievement gap between blacks and whites was half of its pre brown levels, and no other education policy has ever come close to matching that success. So why do we turn the other way, there was significant progress in terms of creating schools

that were more racially and socioeconomically diverse. But we have to acknowledge there are other places where that didn't happen, and where there was real resistance. parents didn't want black and Latino kids coming to their schools. And my grandson, last night here, they ate, some aggressively lobbied lawmakers and brought cases to the courts. Eventually, this resistance worked. Over the last three decades, school segregation has come back.

So interesting to hear, you know, one of those older clips was, you know, bad, my grandkid, they're not gonna come over here to hear my school. I wonder if that's if that that that still goes on that kind of talk. Maybe in a hushed tone, but I'm sure it still happens. It's just, I find it strange. Just me being who I am to force yourself into a situation. I never understood the civil rights movement of forcing yourself too much counters forcing yourself

in other people's schools. We have Plessy versus Ferguson. And that was in 1892. And that was kind of like where separate but

equal was established. And if I'm from the viewpoint of if we're going to find anything in the Supreme Court, let's have the black schools be equal to the white schools because that was the claim that all they had better books and better AI cities, better schools, this goes on today, we still it's morphed a little bit, but the way it's presented today is the zip code you're born in determines your future.

That's true. And we didn't we didn't solve the problem of the inequality of schools, not the racial balancing of schools, the inequality of the education of the material of the the state of the buildings, the safety, etc. Yeah, that's when we go to the black school. We should see the same safety the same fire extinguishers, the same, the same jungle gym and in the yard. Yeah, of

course. Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's why you had a bunch of people wanting to emigrate, because Oh, yeah, that school is so much better. Facilities wise. It's important. I've never really thought about this when you know, what was the reasoning behind school integration? It's kind of sinister when it now that I think about it. It's like, Well, look, if your school is always going to be shipped, so we're going to send you over here with where it's not shit. Yeah, that's kind of centered.

That will the same thing with No Child Left Behind. It's like, oh, you can read or you can read well, so you don't deserve to be in this crappy school. Looks. Let's move on six to school. It's moving to a less crappy one. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We see this audit, and it never helps. It never helps. And the as you're gonna hear and come back, oh, wait, wait, wait, but it does help. It helps ease the mind of those who are better off. Well, we did our part we

let them come over to our kids school. Oh, yeah, the guilt? Yes, exactly. Kings plan isn't the forced busing of the past. Instead, he wants to make it easier for parents to send their kids to a school outside their neighborhood. This is called school choice. In this system, students of color can avoid bad neighborhood schools and apply for better ones across town. And white parents can choose to send their kids to more diverse schools than the ones nearby. The idea is that parents can

voluntarily integrate schools. But it's not as easy as it sounds. Natalie Hopkinson a journalist and parent of two, has tried to get her two kids into largely white schools for years, they switched schools five times in 10 years. Eventually, she gave up and sent them both to private schools.

When it comes to DC race rules, everything. And it's really depressing to me, the choice system very clearly disadvantages black students, because the schools that are high performing, are in white neighborhoods, period families that are able to have the means to be able to buy into those neighborhoods have a guarantee they will have access to those schools. Right, same same problem just continues. Yeah, so it's not the schools. It's the communities

that make up the schools. And we spoke about how the communities have been under attack through social social programs, and no man house welfare system in these things. So now you see the the schools reflect what the community the status of the community is. Yeah. And what person in their right mind would send their child to lower level school. You don't want to but it's, but if it's the one in your neighborhood, you see that that or the voucher program or whatever. Yeah, but I'm

just I'm speaking of the school choice. Yeah. Idea. It's like, Oh, yeah. Let me choose the shit school. Yeah, they may love diversity. Who would do that? It makes no sense. This is what we're dealing with. And this will irks me, is the so called leaders. Where are they at to call this out? Like these schools are not equal. Based off of what I said before separate will equal the facilities should be the same the amount of chart, the textbook, the year, the

textbooks, all these things. That's what we should have been fighting for. Yeah, no. Yeah. And Mo, I must tell you, I've heard about the school choice school vouchers, etc, for years and years and years. And I'm totally honest. Only only right now have I really thought about it in the way you're thinking about. It's like, well, yeah, holy shit, that's again, it's just insulting. It's like, No, we,

and it goes both ways. Because if that's being offered, you know, there should have been, maybe there was a call saying, Well, hold on a second. We don't want that we want the schools to be better. And I'm sure those calls were there. But ultimately, it's such an accepted thing. And yeah, and just for me, it just kind of hit me like, oh, that's, yeah, it's kind of cynical and insulting. And the teachers don't really say anything, because what do

they do? They all close the school. That's the teachers work in these environments. You see them on the news all the time, the roof is falling down, rather than running around. And it's like the solution is to close the school down and bust the kids out of their neighborhood. Right? Yeah, that's the solution, not fix the school now. It is very easy. I don't know I can't get get my head around it. But the one thing that last clip, the last of the clips brought up was the Brown

versus the Board of Education. This is 1954. And this was the Brown family. They want it to go to a white school. Well, let me let the next clip. Where are we at? Brown versus the Board of Education. Not so equal one. It's early in the morning and young Linda Brown, a third grade elementary student in the town of Topeka, Kansas is getting

ready for school. Linda and her sister will soon leave the house to begin their churning, but they won't be going to the elementary school located just seven blocks away from their house. No. Instead, they will walk six blocks to board a bus that will then take them to another school located a mile away from their house. Why? Because of the color of their skin. The year is 1951. And this country needs a change. Now, part of that clip sounded really old and part of it sounded

modern. What was that from? It's from the Georgia Bar Association. Oh my god, they need some help. Yeah, so it's for it's for kids. For kids, so they have actual get gaveled names I think slammer. I'm gonna teach you how segregation works. Okay. But there was something in that clip that I wanted to see if you call about the proximity. Yeah, a six be walking six blocks to the bus. So. So the white school is seven blocks away? Yeah. Oh, yeah. They only have to walk six blocks.

Why? Well, they had to walk six blocks to the bus get your bus. Mal. So that means this family lived in a mixed race community. Which goes back to our white flight. Moving out. No, yeah, we move moving out. You see what you see what I'm going? Yeah. Because you can't say, oh, we want all the black kids that go to all white schools. That doesn't make any sense, does it? No, that was no, this was very targeted and Mrs. Bought for a

certain group of people. And we're gonna get into that not equal to it was happening everywhere. African American students were being denied admission to all white schools, especially in the states where segregation was mandated. The case of a Brown versus Board of Education of Topeka, Shawnee County, Kansas was named after Reverend Oliver Brown from Topeka, Kansas. Oliver Brown was an assistant pastor, a welder in the shops of the Santa Fe Railroad, and father of nine year old Linda

Brown. Brown was also one of 13 parents to be recruited by his childhood friend, Charles S. Scott, a civil rights law. Brown and others were asked to attempt to enroll their children in their closest all white neighborhood school. Reverend Brown did this in the fall of 1951. Taking his daughter by the hand and walking with her into some new elementary school. Okay, you rang your bell on the lawyer's name? They will have you believe that? Mr. Brown, you say, you know, I

am fed up? My black daughter's going to a white school. I'm calling my lawyers. No, that's not how it happened to these civil rights lawyers called up families a. Sure. Yeah, he's like an ambulance chaser. Yeah. And they use their kids as as a weapon. Political Yeah. As as like Greta, no, brother. This is the moderate. She's, what is her name? Say? I think Cynthia Brown, I believe. She's like the

modern day, Greta. They use these kids. Put them in this very volatile and hateful environment, because it's forced. We saw at least seen the pictures. We seen the little black girl holding the notebook on all these, like, yeah, you're writing clips here, your heart breaks. Why are we yelling on both sides? Like? What? And you put your kid through that for what? Better education? Well? I mean, yeah, I wouldn't. Yeah, it's hard to say how that

how desperate are you? I don't know. That's, I see the I see the jokin at all. Absolutely. But I'm also thinking, Well, you know, if you really want to make a stance, sometimes you got to do something. But clearly, this lawyer just jumped out of the woodwork. And I would say the lawyer kind of set it all up that way to use the kid.

So my question goes back again, while we're not trying to get better facilities for all the black children at the school that you're not trying to let your child go to? I wish I had an answer. Well, it's not there is no answer because it doesn't make any sense. It's like, dumb. Well, you want to enforce the certain privilege and these kids are privileged they have a certain privilege because they were able to move out of the neighborhood obviously, because they have to walk seven blocks

and then catch a bus ticket. out to the school in the community were set instead of walking six blocks to this school over here that's in their community. So I'm just saying. Yeah. So we're gonna continue on with. Where are we at? I think we get, we always get clear, we skipped Linda Brown explaining cigarette segregation to her kids. I think I think it worked out best this way. It's funny how these things work out. So Linda Brown Thompson desk. That is the

that's the little girl, right? The little girl here she's gonna explain her her experience. The neighborhood that we lived in with an integrated neighborhood. And so when we went outside to play, I had playmates that were all nationalities. I had playmates that were Hispanic that were white, that were Native American. And so we all played together, you know, every day. And when school would start, then we would have to go these separate directions. My playmates want to know, well,

why can't you go to school with us? And I want to know why I couldn't go with them, you know. But being children, we didn't understand what was going on. It was devastating. I didn't like it a bit. And I just wonder, why. Why is this happening? You know, why couldn't she go to the neighborhood school? You know? And when the kids asked her why she couldn't know, they came and asked me, Miss Brown, what's the all of this? Why can't learn to

go to school with this. And I tried to explain to them it was the color of her skin that black people could not go to school with them over there yet. They could go, the Mexicans could go, the Indians could go and the whites all went together. But the blacks could not go. So I tried to explain that. Because those very same children who came over to play with her, they ate my food. They slept in my bed with my kids, and they

played with them. And they didn't see any difference. But then when school started that, where the difference came in. You know, and I don't want to equate my experience to this at all, of course. But I when I was seven, we moved to the Netherlands. And I was in an international school for a couple of years only English spoken. And live picked up a couple of words of Dutch. But this was 70, early 70s. And Americans were not very well liked. There was a Vietnam War.

And you know, so really what the Dutch kids would say to me, is you crazy American, that's about all I would hear all day. And my my dad switched careers, and very expensive International School for all three kids ended. And we literally were told one Sunday night, we had a week off from school. Hey, guess what you guys doing tomorrow? And like, wow, what are we doing? You're going to Dutch school. What? So I entered Dutch school at fifth

grade, almost not speaking any Dutch at all. And I'll tell you sucks massive balls. Because I was different. And you have four immutable differences, things I couldn't help. But I was completely different. And it's traumatic, then, you know, so just throwing out another analogy, but I can feel some of this. Understand, I'm not assisted to the fact that she wanted to go to school with the kids that she played with in her neighborhood.

Yeah. And another small fat dude, I don't want to gloss over is why isn't it every other group, not white group gets to go to school, but it's like, no, no black kids will take the Mexicans in any way. You're pushing the bounds with the black kids. I mean, I wanted to point that out as well. So are we talking about segregation here because they don't really fall under segregation. Under what how you think it would be right a whites only right? That's that's funny business

going on there as well that? No, no black people are very slight. Everybody will say yes. Selective segregation. Yeah, I just wanted to point that out. For the for the people that's out there, listening. But here we are. So they the civil rights lawyers gotten them to got their 15 families and they take it to the Supreme Court. And we have a Brown versus Board Supreme Court one. By the early 50s, segregation was frayed by the war and torn in spots where the court had acted. The white primary was

outlawed. Housing covenants outlawed some graduate and law schools were forced to admit blacks that the court was aware that the big fight was still to come. The schools K through 12 white children and black in the same classroom. I love the music and really sets me up. So that this is the law Last battleground the K through 12

schools, right? They've like they said the war, the war had a big effect on it, or World War Two is what they're referring to as the war because that was one I think we spoke about on the last show. That was one of the things that now black people were able to join the armed forces in mass right side by side. Yep. You had the Tuskegee Airmen, you had get the tank battalion that were famed for being very successful in World

War Two. So you had a lot of black men soldiers coming back home and they were kind of breaking down some of the social barriers, the barriers, yeah. So as I said, segregation was tattered, but they had to keep forcing, forcing. So we're gonna get into Supreme Court to Atlanta by Thurgood Marshall and other young lawyers like Robert Carter, the NAACP Legal Defense Fund was running or aiding cases

all over the country. The court picked five and consolidated them into one set of arguments forever known as Brown versus Board of Education of Topeka, Kansas. As oral arguments approached, people camped outside the building to assure themselves a seat in the courtroom. NAACP lawyers, Marshall and Carter were up against a formidable adversary, John W. Davis, the former presidential candidate, making

the last of his 140 appearances at the Supreme Court. But his arguments had a familiar ring separate wasn't necessarily unequal. Blacks should be happy with the way things were. Didn't states have the right to educate their children as they saw fit? Throwing it right back to states rights Interesting. Well, this is where I disagree, because they say shouldn't blacks be happy with the way they had it? No, because schools

were inferior. Schools were inferior. The second the second part of that, though, the way I heard it was, well, wait a minute, shouldn't the states make sure that that's, I mean, is this when we had a Department of Education or not, because I think that's where most of the problems came from, is when we had federal and when I should, I should look it up, go ahead and continue Mo and I'll just look that up is when that started. So just a little anecdote that schools were not equal at a

time, and I'm not oblivious to that fact. Because my dad would tell me, he would like a we had to go in and take books together and read, they got like books that were five, six years old pages torn out of them. So I'm aware that the schools were not equal, and facilities and materials. But there was something that the white schools couldn't give the black students

and we're gonna get to that later on in the show. And also in a time that we talked about now PTSD, post traumatic stress, forcing kids into the environment that they don't want to be in Are they not welcome? It has to be very traumatic credit history, a very traumatic, but nobody considered this. It was like we're trying to win A a political battle. And if the kids are sacrificed, so be it.

Well, of course, this is this is this is very modern, to abuse your children to for a political point, by the way, Department of Education under Jimmy Carter 1979. Okay, so this was a school, so was the state's responsibility to ensure that the schools were equal, which they were not which, if I had silver, if, if I'm running the show, I'm having my civil rights lawyers fight that case of No, it's not equal. Then Then, then we I think that would just been better off, but

that's just me. Let's get into Supreme Court three, Warren starts off in a bland manner. And you can't tell for a while as he's delivering the opinion, what the outcome is going to be. And then he comes to the key line. And he says, and we unanimously hold that separate but equal has no place in the Constitution. And it was just electric in the court room when he said unanimous we conclude that in the field of public education, the doctrine

of separate but equal has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. Therefore, we now honestly hold that the plaintiffs are deprived the equal protection laws guaranteed by the 14th amendment. Plessy v. Ferguson, in education is no more and in practice Plessy v. Ferguson itself is no more. The era of Jim Crow, constitutionally speaking, is all right. I'm just trying to understand the Explain, I needed another explanation of separate but equal.

Okay, so it goes back to 1892. Case Plessy versus Ferguson. So, Homer Plessy, who is seven AIFS? Caucasian? Yeah, going back to the one drop rule here took a seat and a white only white whites only car of a Louisiana train. He was arrested at the refuse to move to the car reserved for blacks. And this was also a plant. He was a plant. Well, sure, by lawyers. It's so this goes even back to the early not late 1800s of

lawyers using plants to bring about cases right. But but on appeal, the United States Supreme Court upheld the state imposed racial segregation rely on the separate but equal doctrine. It says separate facilities for blacks and whites satisfy the 14th amendment. So so long as they were equal. So that's Plessy versus Ferguson or the separate but equal trial. Okay, I got it now. Yes. So that's what I'm saying. If you want to have your lawyers go

fight, but like, Hey, we've tried this case. Plessy vs. Ferguson, we're looking at this school, we're looking at that school. They're not equal. You're not upholding the law. Right. But But now what they wanted to do we say we want the select few handful of black children to be forced into white schools, while leaving the black schools, dilapidated,

dilapidated and deteriorating. So so so essentially this case, and its ruling came down to well, it's okay to leave the the schools in a state of disrepair. Yeah, it's not uncommon. Laws of the Black Law, the black kids have equal access to the white schools. Yeah, you can let it all go to shit as long as they can walk over that way. Yeah, wow. Four to leave it to the neighborhood. Yeah, man with CDs. That's that's institutional racism, bro. Light bulb. Okay. But it's

for poor people, for poor black people. If you're middle class and like we spoke about about the old neighborhood on a certain point. I think it does more from purely a black white issue, racial to poor and less poor. When the lines do blurred a certain point. Yeah, they do. That's true. So fast forwarding to now. We have Mr. Tony Harris from Seba former anchor on CNN. And he speaks on school desegregation while failed.

Learn it people suggesting to me that that the Brown decision set education back for black kids, why are we fighting these battles? Why when our kids are getting fighting for resources for what is a substandard education, graduating not reading at a grade level, and a lot of cases, not all cases, but in many cases, why are we fighting this when we know there was a period of time in our history, when we were educating

our kids and around comes into effect. And you lose so many of the the black teachers who were teaching these kids and don't forget part of the buy in for a lot of these districts, these white districts was that these black teachers aren't going to teach our white kids. I haven't seen Tony Harrison CNN in a long time. Yeah, he hasn't been there for a while. I think he he hosts a show called America hate. It looks into a racial issue that Oh, Al Jazeera. Yeah, yeah. Okay, gotcha, gotcha.

So he brings up some great points, because what we had happened was this thing called social promotion. Have you ever heard of that, Adam? Is that a like Twitter? Kind of like it where nobody knows what they're doing? No, that's where you just kind of push a kid alone. Like, oh, yeah, we're gonna go ahead and move on to the third grade, even though he's reading. Oh, yeah. First grade level. Yeah,

this is let's just get going. This is a very big problem. And I think that these days, it happens a lot more and it's done kind of with the grades. Schools don't want to get the bad over everything's with metrics. Schools don't want to bad marks or they either lower the the difficulty of the test or, you know, fudge around with the numbers just to just push the kid through the system.

It's one of those things They did. And I can just highlight this right quick was they went from the seven point scale to the 10 point scale. So just when I was in school a was 100 to 93. That was a now a is it from 100 to 90. And it goes a B is from i 89, to 80, and so on and so forth. And it's something I never really, I always okay. Rewind, growing up in the Netherlands, in, in the Dutch school system, it's a zero

to 10 scale always has been that way. And the more I came to appreciate the zero to 10 scale, the more I looked at the American system with A, B, C, D, F. And would say this is really fudging you know, it's like a C, well, you kind of you pass with a C, but really in the, in the in the 10 point system that will be a failing grade it more like a five, and I always thought it was kind of pussy as like, just just give me the real number.

Well, that kind of system helps with, quote unquote, privileges. Well, yes, of course. Is kind of like a little Johnny. So we'll give him a c minus exam. Yeah, it's a fudge factor. It's stupid. What? The reason why I make that point is this is kind of how we sample how black kids were harmed. Because where one teacher might give you a B plus, the other one might give you a c

minus, it's very subjective. The other thing is, what about social promotion, this is another and this is gonna be a live conversation that me and my dad had about schools, because He is an educator. He was saying, I don't care how big you are, if you're reading on a third grade level, you were in the third grade, right? Could be 12 years old at his, quote unquote, black school, the teacher wasn't passing you,

right? It wasn't. If you ran a third grade level, you weren't a third grade, if you weren't third grade math level, they will keep failing you and failing you, fail you until you actually perform well. We all know how that how that worked out. We all know what changed over the years. So what happened was, and I don't know if this cost teacher was scared to be called racist if they felt a bunch of black

kids. Well, you the black family was being destroyed. At the same time, the black community was being destroyed at the same time through urban renewal. But that's another show for another day of and now you have these kids going into their environment that well, I'm gonna let Mr. Minister J. J. Sammy Williams and his wife explain it. In the black community, we were prepared by setting setting

goals, objectives for ourselves. This was done primarily in the home, in the church, and in the school at that particular time, because schools have a heavy reinforcement of our characters, because they were black schools. Schools were not integrated at

that time. You know, do the best that you can with your life. You are unique, you have a contribution to make, you have something to offer, you have a talent, you have skills, many, many other things that you do have going out there into the world and get them and who was

Jay Samuel Williams. So J Sami when he was just a minister, but I thought this video on YouTube, him and his wife, speaking on black schools before integration, and just to get perspective for somebody that age now we can like I said, I'm 40 years old, I didn't go through the changing of a school so I can have a perspective by wanting to get someone of that age that experienced the as it was happening. So we can get some perspective of what it was like from a person that attended

black schools, but prior to integration. So that's that's what Mr. J. Samuel provides to this. Got it to this story. Yeah, so he, like you said, it's something about I've had white teachers now have had black teachers. I've had good teachers, I have bad teachers. What is something about a teacher that has a certain vested interest in you in you?

And and you get that from black educators? Now I can't speak as far as it doesn't happen between the phenomenon between white educators and white students, but they don't allow you to quit. They don't allow you you to listen and I'm just speaking from the 80s. When I went to school, I had one teacher Miss Mrs. Tab, and she would die, just give it to you straight.

Like, you know what life is going to be like, you know how the world is, and in there will talk to you in a certain way that I think maybe a white teacher may not feel comfortable with saying to you Well, I've certainly and I think that's that's when the life of a teacher is most beautiful when they connect with a student. And I've had that certainly with one history teacher and one

geography teacher. But I never received an any kind of talk from them about hey, now, you know, you know, you know, where, how this is all going to wind up the way I think that you got that. So having that connection with a teacher is universal. The downside? I don't think anyone said well, you're gonna you're gonna wind up on the streets dead. It's funny, my dad was an educator, and he chose to go to the worst school, whatever it is. He like, what's the worst

school? See me there? Yeah, he was kind of like, he was kind of like Joe Clark. I mean, knowing you doesn't surprise me, your dad did. What he will bring kids home and like, my mom would like fix big pots of spaghetti. And we've been like three or four students. And I mean, all our teacher salaries. So? Yes, so I just think but you don't get that now. I don't think because, well, these days, it's legally dangerous. You know, you'd be there. Before you know you've been accused of some wrongdoing.

It's a lot. It's a lot of stuff you can't do anymore. As a teacher. I totally agree with you. But now not to go down. I'm off on a tangent. Let's get back to Mr. J. Williams, or Samuel Williams to relative to white America, we were taught that a lot of the values a lot of the values that were that came into being was sent by a middle class, let's say white America, the way we were to emulate them, you know, because at this point, we're at

the very threshold of integration. Immolate them, take on many of these as much as possible, middle class values and virtues. That was a kind of an inferior stigma placed on black people you have to watch. But you have to look through it to see exactly what you know. The real truth behind that is a stigma of inferiority. You're not exactly what you shouldn't be. You know what, you need to do this, you need to do this.

And so in order to be in order to be accepted in the white world, into a white culture, yeah, well, that's what you're gonna get, of course, like it's so it's almost obvious that that that was bound to unpack that way. Well, you got to do it this way. Well, that's not where I'm coming from in life. Well, tough shit kid. I can see where that's a problem to the whole thing is a mess. But this goes back to the conversation that we had about your friend coming

over. You just wanted to play right. This is what this is what Jay Samuels Williams is explaining him I know. We have to you know, we you watch something and you want to emulate it not for a simple fact that you think is you put it on a pedestal but you like Oh, well. I'm sure you had this when you went to Dutch school. Dutch school you like what are the Dutch kids doing? What's not what's considered normal? Let me tell you or detsky Let me tell you, they they did division

completely differently. They didn't even have a one number over another a number with a vertical line. It was a was a slashed line. It was like what the hell? It's like, okay, well, I guess I do it that way, which I had no background in it. Very messed up. It is a gyp this whole school system is a big chip. And that's why you felt like the kid when you came, he was carrying that on his back, like, oh, we have to emulate what we think middle classes. Because you're trying to convince people

that you belong belong there. Yes. And there was never a point of time where you could let your hair down and be you know, were there any child psychologists involved in these in these rules and regulations and this whole thinking process or was it all just we know what's best for the kids? I just wonder about that. It's progress. I mean, it's probably is 100 Yeah, we don't care about kids crying in the street talking about the world is coming to the end of eight years. Oh, it's

material. It's great for the photographic material, it would look great on my resume. Right now, not only that, but who can fight against crying kids? Yeah. So these are how these hobbies these kids were being used. And my just my opinion, and it wasn't even successful or a fruitful. Thank you. I mean, oh, it's one thing. And look, it's like, if you're going to you if you're going to abuse your kid for the greater good. I mean, that's, that's a very big sacrifice to

make. But if it were a misguided cause that Well, here we are, look at where we are today, then it's kind of sad than it was. Maybe people really believe this was way to do it. I'm not in their shoes. These aren't. These are some smart people. Yeah. But who do dumb things. There were smart people. But it was my question, was it a status thing to say all my kids go to

the, to the white school? And I mean, this is a real phenomenon that I want to bring up and we don't discuss it long, but a lot of times, quote, unquote, black people would like to be the only black in a situation. This is real. I'm the only black that live in my neighborhood. I mean, that means is that a good hazard? Is that a good thing? Is that how it's viewed? Yeah,

I made it. I in this is real. I mean, this is a real sentiment of it's cricket and backwards in my book, but that's like, what do you have any friends or acquaintances who were in that situation? would say it that way? Not in that way. Okay. Not it's not they don't say it like that. But it's in place where you can say something. Yeah. And it's the receipts. Telling me you walk around saying, I'm doing a podcast with that white dude. I made it to the top of the podcasting game.

That's right. I'm here. That's just me. You don't see another white podcasters hanging around? And do you any black ones? Yeah, exactly. Right. Right. I wouldn't ever do that. Because it's like, and just to be of course not, of course, I get it. Now. I'm only saying is. It's the opposite. Yeah. It's because like, yeah, that's another show. But I mean, yeah, it's just that you have this gauge, like, Oh, am I keeping it real enough? Or, you know, it's a mental thing. And it's like some people they

don't cares. They want to make it away from their own people. And that's the case this whole episode hear that? They didn't want equal schools. They didn't want better schools. It was they want it. They want it to be over there with them. Yes, yes. And this, this is one of the things that we go back to the white flight with Michelle Obama. It was like, yeah, all the white people left. And then but who moved in, right. Black people. So you have a problem with black people that you ran

from? Is this weird thing this goes on. But I'm taught that you three, it brought about some stuff prior to because in school, we were taught, we had we had role models, like I've mentioned before, we are role models, and our teachers, you know, instill self pride. And we just knew that someday, you know, we wouldn't want to be like this, all the time, that someday we

were going to be somebody. So we just, you just kept that in your mind that one day we're going to leave Prince Edward, we're not going to be in followed the rest of our lives, you know, and for the most part most of us did. So she just goes on to speak about what was the steelton instilled in them by the teachers that they had at their all blessed school. So I just think if it's your choice, you want to integrate his school, that's fine. If you feel like

you know, you want that balance. That's fine. The problem I have with the whole situation is to twofold. One, the schools got no better and to the kids were forcing it to an environment that really caused him. Stress. Yeah, and living with a person that never really got over it being my father, he never really got over that. I mean, cuz it's just it's a culture shock. Oh, as you spoke about, you're saying in the Netherlands is that?

Are there any success stories of very successful black Americans who went through this process forced, forced or not, but went to a white school and then became XYZ from Allah Harris. She says she was bused. I said black. I said black Americans. Well, technically, technically, please. I don't think that's true. But I'm talking more about you know, back in the in the 60s 70s. Here, the time we're talking about, I think a lot of your politicians, I mean, this is a

reality all Condoleezza Rice comes to mind, right? Cory Booker actually good. I mean, so, but because of their economic status, right, allow them to live in the good neighborhood. This is the missing piece here. Yeah. That's why I talk about proximity is because your family was economically forced, and they are successful. I don't want to say forged tonight, it was a luck thing, but they worked hard to move it to that neighborhood, and your kid kind of deserves to

go to that school. But did you think 10 steps ahead, like, what's the environment really gonna take the toll he's gonna take on my child, send them to an all white school where they were, as a show good shout out. Everybody Hates Chris. Yeah. And it did, where he was academically gifted, and he got to go to all white school. And he was the only black kid. And like, you don't want to be the only anything anywhere. Right? That's not a good thing to be. So I mean, I don't think the

parents really thought it out. It was like, oh, yeah, we're gonna make history or, you know, my kid's gonna, you know, be, you know, right on the front. Right? Well, but I can see parents, if it's not thought through thinking of this is the opportunity, I want my kid to have this opportunity. And really not thinking it through as a kid. True, but it does have long term effects on the child and didn't

have long term effects on your community. Because what ends up happening is maybe that student that's super intelligent, super charismatic, needs to be an example for his fellow Black students. Right? You start pulling all the gifted kids out of the schools. That's why I was I was totally against No Child Left Behind. And every right then you leave just the rest of you literally leave the rest behind.

Right? It's like, oh, yeah, okay, you can read out all the kids can read on school, that we're gonna move them out to another school. So why are you leaving behind? Yeah, who, you know, where's the tutoring coming from? Where's the peer level? Inspiration coming from nowhere, you have a bunch of kids that Anna has had to deal with your self esteem as well,

like, oh, they just left me. You know? Yeah. So Well, again, again, all of this comes from a completely failed policy idea, which everybody bought into, instead of the obvious, which is, hey, let's make our the schools in our neighborhood better. Alright, so let's continue on with top values for so we learned to work within the confines to be creative, as much as possible, to make us as black people say, love to make do with

what you have. And by this adaptability to this old inner culture, you know, this is what brought brought forth many other things, many of the qualities and the strengths, and admit that we had to live beyond where we were, you know, we were not taught just to watch what you're watching right now. You know, there's to look down, right? Where you in the 50s. But look ahead, there's something out there, you know, go get it. So that's just him continuing on with what they

were. What the they were of the day. Yeah. And what they were given from the I just want to highlight that because everybody wants to make this make it seem like, it's a couple of things I want to tear down here. What everybody want may seem like the old black school was just terrible. Yeah. I mean, no, there's some very prominent black high schools even today. One of them being I think it still opened in Durham, North Carolina call hillside High School. That was the town I grew

up in. And I really wanted to go to that school. But my dad was like, Nah, you're not going to hillside. Oh, why not? Why not? Because they had already at the year I was, let's see. So I was in high school from 94 to 99. This data had been getting out all the effluent shoe kids. It was like the school for the quote unquote ghetto. Now, obviously, I'm sorry. I mean, because it was it was no more middle class in this school district. You see, I'm saying so I was like my dad has this now.

He was like, Nah, that's not gonna happen, even though he would go teach at that school. He will lie in but he didn't teach you that school because he was at the worst school and that like there was like the behavioral school. But so you say you want to like not you wanted to be a Hornet. Yes. hillside Hornet. Right. Because I just love, I meant to be honest with you. And me, this may sound funky, but I just like always felt

comfortable around being around all black people. Sure, I haven't went to historically black college for that reason, it was just a little inside baseball, as a black child, you only have a certain amount of years where you can be incubated with your own people, right? Until you had to become

integrated into society. So you know, high school is when you're young adult college is your age when you become a real adult, quote, unquote, adult, but and then, um, then you have to go out to the workforce, and you really can't pick and choose them. So that was like, oh, man, I want to be around, you know, my own people. But I think my dad had foresight to understand they see like, yeah, they're not going to accept you. Right, so What school did you wind up going to?

I went to Riverside High School, which was about 5050 4060, somewhere around there, which Durham is almost like 5050, black, white, and Excel, which is strange. I mean, it's a weird, unique, I'm gonna say unique, not weird, a unique place to grow, because every other person you see is black. I mean, at the time I was there, I mean, now it's a huge Hispanic population. But yeah, it was just, I don't know, it just you

just feel it. You know what I used to think it was weird, or you don't be like that Mo. Because, you know, that's not the way things you need to think integrate it, you know, integration mindset. But now that I work with a, in a corporation that has people from all over the world, at lunch, everybody sits with their own kind, is forced is unforced segregation. I mean, it's weird go, you would look in the cafeteria, it's like, oh, yeah, you have this group over there,

this group over there, you know, is. So it's like, you will actually be made feel black people will be made, made to feel bad, because you wanted to do that. But then you see everybody else doing so right. Now, I'll just wager though, at your high tech executive, you know, you've got a lot of H two B visa workers, you've got people who are in recent immigrant background,

right, which is a little a little different. But in general, when it comes to food, you know, I went to a an integrated college, not very long, because I just couldn't stand what the hell I was doing there. And my roommate was black kid from Trenton, New Jersey. And even around foods. Yeah, there's so much difference in culturally in what, what we want to eat. Of course, we all agreed on Mickey D's that was easy. And I drive, but lunchtime, good food time is always going to be

interesting. And people will of course, gravitate towards people who are maybe eating something they like. I don't really think it's eating. Is that when you want to speak in your native tongue that too? Yeah, sure. Sure. You know, when you want to say a joke, and not have to explain it, right? Or in other words, it's a bunch of different things. Let me take your side. So what you're saying is, it's a natural human occurrence to want to sit with your own culture.

Everybody wants to be around their own kind. Now, can you intermingle with other people? Yeah, of course, and you appreciate the things that other cultures bring, of course. And that's why I don't really get so emotional about racism, because I have a very unique and this is just me, I have a very unique view on racism. Racism is a weird form of nepotism. Because if you were able to hire somebody to look like you, you're gonna do it because they're kind of like extended

family. That's how I look at it. Now, do people who charge it with hate? Of course they do. I'm not I'm not denying what you're saying. Okay, well, when you when you equate racism to nepotism, it's kind of the reverse instead of, I'm better than my because the textbook definition, my race is superior to that person's race. Therefore, I'm going to hire the superior person. It's a little different. And it's not about superiority. It's like well, I feel comfortable with this person.

I think is a merge of both what you said, because there's some vanity Oh, yeah, we're the best. I think everybody thinks that up there. Whatever group it is age group, boom, will versus course, of course. So your group, you're going to feel that you're the best. And then you say, well, since I, my groups the best I want to surround myself around with that group, whether it be to be comfortable, whether they be understand or whether, oh, that's a distant cousin, me like, oh, well, no,

you're absolutely right. And in the corporate environment today, the biggest problem I'd say is, of course, not racism, the biggest problem is ageism, for the very reasons you outline there is certainly in Silicon Valley, where there are 40 year olds, 40 Plus, who are incredibly skilled at the technological near the technological prowess, whatever it is, let's just call it say coding engine software engineer.

But they're very, they don't get hired because people want to have younger people around. Yeah, cuz they think they know, younger people know, they don't know anything. Well, true. I would just say that's how they look at like, know how to download the app or whatever. I

mean, so I mean, that's why I say this. The reason why I say this about and I'm going to be short on nepotism, where you go into a situation you have a mindset of and I've done a lot of growing in the last I guess, 1010 years, because just being exposed to different things. I'm not gonna say the gender or the nationality of my last boss, but the people that that person hired, first shared the same nationality as them. The next four people they hired. Yeah, sure. And then the next to

shared the same gender as them. Sure. So I'm looking at now I'm like, Hold on is this. What is this saying? Like? It's nepotism? Yeah, it's it's a standard form of nepotism. And just for a little little comment, relief. I like nepotism. All right. Your daughter Ivanka will be taking Caroline's please on The Apprentice. Correct. Nepotism? That's true. Why I like nepotism, you know, can't take

care of your kids. You know that better than I was a big fan of I liked nepotism, I think, you know, a lot of people say Oh, nepotism. So usually these are people without children. I like nepotism. And just just to be to be completely clear, the textbook definition of nepotism because a lot of people think it's only relatives. Textbook, the practice among those with power or influence have favoring relatives or friends. Especially by giving them jobs, so it's not. Nepotism is often confused

with only only family but family friends. Yeah. But is that a weird viewpoint? I mean, that's just how I look at it. I mean, it sounds really take offense to it. No, it sounds really honest. But you know what it is, in today's social justice world, even saying that, and I should probably play this clip on no agenda just just to make some people's heads explode. Just saying it all so wrong. So from nepotism, inept, a bedsheet nepotism is will be just as bad

certainly coming from a guy like Trump. Do people feel just as bad as racism? You're sure it's an ism. You're cutting people short you know, you're jumping other people not getting a fair shot fair chance. But people do it all the time. Whether it's religion, color, gender, age. Well, I don't know. I grew up and two things my mom always

said to me, and most of them no longer apply. So now you're 15 years younger than I am but I grew up with sticks and stones will break my bones names will never hurt me. And life is not fair. So that's what I grew up with. And and I think it was important that I heard that because like, well, you know, some shits unfair and oh, yeah, life's unfair. Okay. And a lot of people are unfair. They talk a good game

Sure. But if you if we got to choose between this this a religion of somebody that Christian not me personally, but somebody the Christian and the guy hiring as a Christian and the other guy not sure. It's like, I gotta look out for my Christian brother, which makes it family. You see what I'm Going here, but I digress on that, but I'm just explaining to you. This is a lot to explain about American history in the history of race, as a lot is baked in it is nepotism in my

viewpoint. Sure. to expound on that more, I have a clip from just to go. This is Muhammad Ali, I think in 1971, I want to say on racial integration, like people to move in the neighborhoods were clean their neighborhoods. And another thing when you say integration, it comes on the end of marriage to write together and I'm sure no one tells you a white person watching this show no

intelligent white man and his or her right white man. Won't black boys and black girls marrying their white sons and daughters, and in return introducing their grandchildren as half brown, kinky head black people, I am sure object. You wouldn't but a lot of what I'm sure a lot of people don't know. What I'm trying to say is is what I'm trying to say is this. You don't have it you say you don't you don't have it, you really ain't gonna have it. He's on the show. And you got to say that

doesn't that's not true? Why would you want to do that? Because I don't think I'm any different from USC. Here we are, we must different made us different. We are different. And we all together. Society has made us different now in that society. God made us diff No, no, we're just human beings. He made all of us. We all listen, blue birds fly with blue birds, Ray burrs on the birds. Just listen to me when I'm wrong. Pigeons want to be with pigeons?

We must wish them they don't have intelligence. But yet they stay together. We should have more intelligence than them. Right. Nice one. What you want here this from the corporate image of Muhammad Ali? No, no, no. There's a lot I've heard on this show that I never heard from the corporate believe me. And that's the point of why I'm doing this. You didn't hear about the burning house. MLK, you didn't hear about this corporate this stance that Ali had. And it's not like I said,

we all bring something to the table. We're all, you know, created equally, but just differently. And that analogy I use for that is a pound of feathers and a pound of stones. They're both a pound. But there's two different things. So always, so it's not like one one is superior, inferior. Whatever. That's not the point is that, like peep Redbirds, like the mute red birds blue birds like the blue blue birds now, can we all stand together and make seeing this beautiful harmony,

of course, but which you won't hear this? Because he's like, it's a narrative. Very, very unpopular thing to say Mo. And I just like to take a moment to recognize the conversation we're having here. I think it's incredibly valuable. It is to me, and I hope other people who are listening consider that because, you know, take, it takes trust, it takes work. It is a shitload of work. You're doing mo on producing this. And I think it's

valuable. And I want everyone to consider thinking about us. Mo fund me.com. I appreciate that, Adam. And it is is it is brave. Is brave for that. And I'm not saying that because we're the to having a conversation, but it's unscripted. You don't know what I'm gonna come with. I don't know what your response is going to be. But we show up every week to have a conversation to kind of enlighten each other. Yes. I've learned just as much as

I've shared, because I only can see things through my eyes. Now this colorblind thing they want to do. Oh, we're colorblind? No, we're not. No, no, we're not no, no. Inessa does such such disrespectful because it's like, oh, yeah, you're not gonna respect the person to see them for who they are, you know, you want them to fit inside of a box. I think eventually, on the show, we're going to pinpoint the moment where this all went haywire. Where it was, it may be

it's a it's a long period of time. But the idea that it just does not okay to say hey, we're a little different. Now, this show is set up to have different you know, that's the whole concept is the two different two American guys coming from different backgrounds. shooting the shit, you're talking about stuff. But somewhere, it became very unpopular. To say, you know, it's like, Moe and I, we talk two hours a week and then he's with his buddies. I'm with my buddies, you know, whatever.

And we don't really have integrated lives that way. But it's the way maybe it should be. This is a very enlightening thought. And it's okay to be different. We don't have to be This culturally, society, everybody wants to tuck their culture away and like, oh, no, no, I don't I don't, I'm not that kind of that a word or this kind of that, you know, I'm, I'm even being American he's like, Oh, I'm not that kind of American you know, I'm this brand safe Americans like no, I'm me.

You know I like it at the military is actually a good example but a buddy of mine taxi Eric in in Amsterdam. He's a cab driver, but he was on an oil rig for eight years. Yeah, that's like two weeks, three weeks on two weeks off. And, and he would tell me stories because you know, you fly it was in the North Sea. So you'd get on a helicopter very dangerous. You know, with 25 people in one helicopter, you land on this

little pinhead in the middle of the the angry sea. there and it's all different backgrounds, particularly from Europe, there's guys from Croatia, there's a Polish there's a lot of British there's an even differences with the Irish and the Scots, the Dutch, the Belgians, and they all come together and they all perform this miraculous dangerous work on a on a drilling platform. But he was saying, yeah, the Brits are over there that drink in their stuff, and that and you're

sure we hang out, but we work really well together. And, and we're professionals. But yeah, it was, you know, those guys do that. And they have that and they got their special meal and do their thing. And those guys like to stay up at night. And somehow that's just the way it works. But it also just worked because they all wanted to be there for a common goal. But it was the differences that gave him the interesting stories. Like, oh, those guys were crazy. He's what they used to do.

And to speak on separation. Your is mostly white people, quote unquote, white people, I mean, just the use of the corporate designation, but they are separated into small little nation to Hell yeah. So it's like, it's okay for them to say all non French. I'm British. I'm this I'm that I'm Italian, you know? Well, interestingly, no. The European Union, the project known as the European Union, is going exactly the opposite. Shut up. We're all the same, we all have the same. We have the same

passport, we all have the same money. We all kind of want to do the same things. And you're going to do it the way we tell you to because we're the European Union Starfleet Command. So the globalists are definitely moving in the opposite direction, which is, I think was what you're pointing out is where the friction comes from.

And that's the point of was this a test run to say if we can make the total opposite merge the rest of the world it will be a piece of cake, and I liked that conspiracy theory. Because a lot of things that came out of America and his 60s, it was just pushed around the world. And this I mean, well, 60s 70s and even 80s were pushed around the world is this is one world one everything 11111 World one government. Imagine all the people write the Coca Cola thing. Yeah, exactly.

So Well, that was different. That was that was I'd like to teach the world in perfect harmony. That was a very good example of they have a Colors of Benetton. So I have a clip from Mr. Malcolm X. And he's going to explain the difference between segregation and separation. Is it fair to say as a generality and as I said, succinct way to put it that you believe in segregation of the races, no segregation is that which is Mr. Muhammad says that segregation is that which is forced upon inferiors, by

superiors. Separation is done voluntarily by two equals, you never refer to the Oriental community in which Orientals live exclusively as a segregated community. Because they live there voluntarily. They everything there is controlled by them, the economy, the politics, the civic organizations, but the negro community is referred to as a segregated community, because Negroes are forced to live in that community, contrary to their will, and they don't

control the businesses of their community. They don't control the politics of their community nor their social life. Right. So that's the difference between segregation and separation. I think we all appreciate a little separation, because when you go to worship houses, all of America, most of them tend to people worship with people that look like them, in one way, shape, or form. But one thing he brought up was the control in their community. So this is where this story hits

home for me. All over America. There were small, but prosperous black cities. You had a rosewood you had Tulsa. I'm sure you heard of Oh, I'm Newark. Yeah, I mean, and you're a newer Harlem, all these places that were was booming, but the one and my city

was called Hey, Todd district. And hey, Todd district. Well, I'll let this clip explain it. How come of age when it was flush, you know, with black businesses along fail the street along Pedigo street black businesses and commercial neighborhoods, but you have five tobacco companies here universal legal mass, who Robertson, American Tobacco Company Imperial. And so a lot of folks went right to tobacco facts good thing about in megapack they were all

unionized jobs. So they gave you know, black people have an opportunity to, to use against you know, discrimination or whatever else happening. Okay, I'm looking this up now. The hate tide district. Yep. So as a kid, they would. I was a young Freedom Rider. I think it's like seventh grade. They put us on the bus and they wrote us around like we were in the civil rights movement. Where was it? What is it like a Civil War reenactment only for civil rights movements?

Yeah, pretty much. Okay. Yeah, so they put us on the bus. I mean, it was for the kids that we know we're pretty academically. Is this once a year was there a certain date? Of course you know, black history might come on oh, that's right. What is that these days? Is that March I forget. It's February I never realized the coldest of the short 28 days just want to find out what douchebag proclaim that first. I wonder who came up

with that? That's that is that is as fucked up as what that is as very funny. Everybody else getting better monsters after us. It's like, we need to swap this man out. If you're gonna give other people months. I would much rather have June you need a refund on the word. Cool. Proclaim this first I want to know. That was first proposed by black educators and the black United students at Kent State University. Educators. Okay. The first

celebration of Black History. So cynical MO The first Black History Month took place at Kent State one year later January 2 to February 28. So that was two months, huh? Okay, President Gerald Ford recognized black history month for the first time. Thanks, Drew. Yeah, wow, he was a bumbling fool. Yeah, we got Yeah. This easier to remember. Just easy to remember what? I'll never I'll never forget that. Yes, I'm sure you will.

And, and by the way, everybody in case you you don't remember, all of the things we discussed are in the show notes at mo fund mo facts.com. As we can find all these links. So yep. So that but yeah, just to go they will take us to hate time and they will tell us a story of how Hey, Tom Woods is a dentist in doctors offices and taxi cabs and everything dry cleaners ever it was all self sufficient part of town and, and the crown jewel, one of the crown jewels that was hillside

High School. The black high school. So it was this, this rich history. But what they did was and this is gonna be another show for another day. They destroyed it with urban renewal. They took the Durham freeway and ran it right slap dab in the middle of Hayti Wow. So you got a West Side east side or north and south whichever it was. Yes, I think it was east and west. Yeah. So that's what you saw this same image and I promise I'm going to do his show

later on. But this wasn't just a a one off thing it was this happened all over urban renewal highways ran right in the middle and it was similar to what they're doing this goes wait it's a wait though back guys. I think it's like show two three. What we talked about general gentrification. Yeah, they were taking the railway in LA. And destroying Yes, yes, yes. Let's see if this is the same play or manual. I said these plays work so well.

That they don't have to switch up and guess who was on board all all the black politicians quote unquote the blue Hey there, we're all yeah bring them on bring the money bringing money in. They destroyed the community. And this is why you had a need to have integrated schools because you destroyed the community. So it's depressing. I know this is just wait, let's let's remember to do a show on urban

renewal. That might be a whole show right there that's pretty Yeah, make make a market and I'll get back to it but the reason why I bring this up bring it home to Durham is I was sitting on the couch one day and this movie trailer comes home for the best enemies and at water last night, electrical fire destroyed East End Elementary School. We kind of go to school now. Go find new sewing feel nice to go. Back kids going attempts go. Oh, come

on. They're gonna pump somewhere missing be put on the hottest way and we're gonna be school segregation once and for all. Listen, I'm never gonna get down to city hall tonight. Who's next? They say you represent a great many people in this town and move out of bed. I'm holding the committee meeting, the council will vote to either adopt or reject school integration. I need to co chair humanity. And I'm the president and clamp. He's about to hand you the keys to stool integration. You go

lock this door was you looking at Crazy white man? Holy crap. This is the story about Durham, Durham. Yeah, yeah. My city is rich with history. Wow, he's super rich with history. I can see what I saw but hold on what they're making a movie out of that. But of course they made it a you know one of those Boulay box office Bonanza you know how it goes like, oh, that club head it got the head of the clan and of course like a buddy cop. It's like a buddy cop movie. What is ours? What?

So we got a white dude with a black woman and then it's a button movie now. Change? Yes. Oh, this I'd love the subtitle change is worth fighting for. So what they're gonna save it now in the movie. Yeah, they say but as always, I don't go with the narrative. I go get the true story behind best of enemies. He was upset and I was upset. And he was cursing and calling all black folks than I was calling all white folks. And I

couldn't stand white folks. Anyway, the children talk to us and got us together saying that they wanted to go to school with each other. And then we looked at each other like food we've been arguing about the wrong thing. She was bold and clearly never minced words activist and Atwater herself recalling the moment when she and CPL is to have good look at themselves and turn things around for the greater good and much to their and everyone else's surprise,

wonder friendship? Does he does the talking for me starting to rise up heads and as Atwater Have you read course. And Sam Rockwell as Ellis the film explores how their relationship evolved through being forced to work together. Cpl is he act like he was the meanest man in the world that wanted to cut his head off. She can upset the world with her mouth that she wants to I take these two people that hate each other, and they're calling each other all kinds of whatever whatnot. Let's put them

to their kids together to school and see how that works. What could go wrong? Exactly. Best enemies to when people say white people say there's I don't have a racist bone in my body. It's like, did they get D boned or something? Because otherwise, you grew up in a white supremacist society. Just the fact that you're going to have biases and prejudices like I do. And the thing is to work on that to acknowledge it, and then like CP, to overcome that, in turn it widened OSHA scope.

You know, we have this myth of a class or a society and democracy for all no racism. And then there's the uncomfortable truth of our traumatic history. So it was the intersection of race, class and gender that allowed this story to come together and to explore those issues. And sadly, those issues are just as relevant today and still need to be worked on. All right. So now how do we know how this movie ends? This 2019 version of history? Oh, you heard him are buddies and they get along and

everything's good. They live happier. Yeah. Happily ever after. Do you know how it goes? So instead of instead of showing that it's hard, and that yes, people have biases on all sides, and they like being with their own kind, but they can work together instead of that. They're going to say that this is how it works or it's it all works fine. Shut up. Is that what is that what this movie is doing? Of course, it all works fine, because the intersection

I heard it, I heard it. I heard it. He said it right there the intersection Yes. of race. Was it race? gender, gender, and something else? I don't know. Does it whatever sexuality Yeah, so um, yeah. Yeah. Oh, about Yeah, who funds these things? By the way, Sam Rockwell's is a pretty big name for this movie. Yeah, I mean, it was a it was a nice size movie. I got I gotta watch it now. I'm sure it's streaming. I'm sure. All it Yes. Probably. Yes to 2018 so it's probably on Netflix or one of those.

was 2009 to April five. 2019. Okay, I 18 Am I okay. All right. Yeah, so yeah, here we are. I was like, what? Alright, come on. I mean, the leader of the clan leader. The leader was in Durham. No, that's not what I'm saying. Like, bro, if you can be easily shaking that I'm questioning your leadership abilities. But leader he is. Yeah, it's easy to just change him

right. So there's a silver lining in all of this talk. Ah, so we can take a deep breath and we have schools integrated and not only schools but now the kk k is integrated. kk k is rebranding itself and in an effort to do so they're being more inclusive. They are allowing Hispanics blacks, Jews and gays to join in on the fun now, they say that they have completely changed what they're missing admission is they've even renamed themselves the Rocky Mountain knights which is

interesting. And here is what they are arguing the kk k is for strong America. White supremacy is the old clan. This is the new clan but if you want to join this new version of the kk k all those wanting to join the ultra right wing society will have to wear the white robes masks and the hats that they wear. This is a great clip. Where did you get this? I missed this memo. I mean, I I was at the meeting, but I get the memo. I hope you wouldn't. Of course not. But that's I didn't know

about this and no one. No one informed me. This is how far integration is gone. You could join the clan who wish which firm did this rebranding Hill and Knowlton Wayne This is fantastic. But what you want to disband the clan. I mean like oh yes, we're gonna keep the head the hoods in the hat. And the sheets, but you you you're more than welcome to wear them. Which is this is great. And this is a newsflash, I don't understand. Why is this not top of the news? How did I miss this? When did

when did this? Where did this come from this clip these clips young young, young fairies. Oh man. That's fantastic. Well, problem solves. But there's more. Oh, of course there is. But then this quote did you get the quote from Jimmy Simmons? YES. Jimmy Simmons, a president of the Montana NAACP chapter said that while he questioned the use of the letters K K. K. If the peace summit took place, he would quote, take a strong look at joining the Rocky Mountain knights.

This is why the NAACP is in the risk in some places of becoming an irrelevant organization. And not enough young people in the NAACP. Like who How did you get to be the president of the Montana chapter of the NAACP, and this guy's rebranding it and as a big giant right wing group and you'll have to carry what kind of what kind of leader are you? No, no, that's that's not that's not Jimmy Simmons.

Don't join you heard that right. I am. My mouth is a gasp this NAACP he presently is willing to join the kk k, the rebranded kk k, you let that soak in from the original clip of who put Brown versus Board of Education up to this. And our top that will Mr. Joel spin Garn, who was the spa, leader of the NAACP. You let all that sink in. I put their foot there for a reason. Yes. Well, the NAACP has been mentioned throughout the past

hour and a half in all of these clips. And now you're gonna go gut punch me at the end here and tell me that the NAACP is willing to join the kk k. And take us right into that burning house. Wow. All right. Mo. That what a journey. It's like a roller coaster that ended in a brick wall. I'm sorry about that. Just slam up join the kk k. Wouldn't it make more sense for the K K K to join the NAACP? I mean, just for optics? You think? Oh, man. Well, the crazy. I thought I was crazy. I don't know.

So we need to follow up on this next week. I need to know what happened. Yeah. And I need a picture of the guy with the with his with his hood on with the sheets. That's, that's really incredible. Very, this is integration for you. It's like, oh, yeah, we can work to change our ways. But come on, join the group. So the next time you hear something coming up in the news

about school vouchers, school choice, et cetera. Think of this episode and think about the historical background of of this forced integration and you got to look at the lawyers lawyers are involved in what children are they using for this or abusing for this? Yes, cuz child abuse is quite common to push political motors. Is that ever? Well, it solidifies my thinking that we're on the right track with the show mo This is one of the few places you can get this kind of honest dialogue honest look

at historical American history. And, and I appreciate you appreciate you very much for for doing all the work and putting it together. It's, it's once again, you've made my week. I'm glad I could do that sir. And as I always say, pay attention to everything and the truth will reveal itself and we'll return next week here on mo facts with Adam curry. Make sure you tune in subscribe and support us at mo fund me.com