#866 - Jesse James West - How To Stay Disciplined When Times Get Tough

Hello everybody, welcome back to the show. My guest today is Jesse James West, he's a YouTuber and an athlete. Fitness is supposed to be enjoyable and so is creating content about your favourite hobbies. But what about the dark side you don't get to see in your favourite influences? How low were the moments that they got to and what are the lessons to take away from that? Expect to learn how to overcome the fear and judgement of others. What running every day for 30 days does to your physique? Jesse's experience from his first time competing in

bodybuilding, the current state of male body dysmorphia, what it was like spending an entire day with the Libber King, the hardest challenge that Jesse has ever done, and much more. People of the UK, I am finally coming home this November Thursday the 28th, I will be performing at the event him Apollo home to BBC's Live at the Apollo 3600 people and me stood on stage.

I can't wait to be back, the show is going to be awesome and tickets are already very limited so get yours now by going to Chris Williamson.live slash London, that's Chris Williamson.live slash London. But now ladies and gentlemen please welcome Jesse James West. Where does stay relentless come from?

The relentless part that comes from my father 100% where he definitely ingrained in my head being relentless I feel like without saying stay relentless to me just sort of by his actions throughout life. And I believe that as I have gotten older as I've played sports my entire life and obviously not now but from 11 years old all the way until 18 years old playing sports. I discovered the whole like nonstop continuously grinding and the more work you put in the more you get out.

And I feel like that sort of defined who I am and I feel that that's something that I've always aspired to be is be the hardest worker in the room. And to do that you need to be relentless I mean like you look at the dictionary definition I'm sort of explaining it and it really stuck with me and I was like I feel like this is this is something that I am body and also can sort of motivate others to become hopefully.

What's your dad got to do that my dad so my dad he's a blue collar guy he is his name's John so John is a blue collar man he has worked many jobs he's cut wood in the winter and made me load it next to him and stuff so he has always had a lot on his plate and just never really complained or anything just always did it did it did it get it done get it to get it done and never had an excuse you there and I was like sort of growing up around him was very

much he believed that that's how I should be as well so one by showing me and two by always like telling me like expect if there's something that he's get done you don't wait you do it now if you are trying to be great at something you go practice you get better and you will be great like it was very like tough love and stuff but he always was he had a million he had five rental properties all at once that he was a landlord to he fixed everything in the house rebuilt the entire house on top of a normal nine to four.

He was a normal nine to five that he wakes up at like four in the morning driving an hour into the city doing works was like witnessing that firsthand it was almost like I grew up with no excuse to be made so I feel like that really ingrained in my head from a young age just being relentless and like that's just who I am and it's like I can't not be that way. It took a while for me that my sport growing up was cricket which is much more gentlemanly cricket yeah that was my game for a decade.

It's also not only gentlemanly but quite gentle as well it's very much an art form it's almost exclusively about skill. S&C for it is primarily just for injury prevention so the line of the hard work what you put in is what you get out that line wasn't really made clear to me until I got into the world of business and university.

Even at school I don't know I just didn't I kind of wish that I did but I didn't draw the line between hard work equals good performance I'm aware that that's a very basic realization. It didn't come to me until I was much older but what does being an 11 to 18 19 year old lacrosse I play lacrosse yeah.

What does that philosophy when you're still a child feel like you know it was it was very it was very difficult to like comprehend as a kid looking back it all makes sense and I'm like I have no regrets on my relationship with my dad my relationship with coaches and sports but playing lacrosse I was fortunately very good at it right away and I feel like when ever I was good at something definitely I was good at it.

I was like definitely my family was like we got a we got to push him the most you possibly can and specifically my mom pushed me a lot but like my dad definitely push me a lot it was like you see those dads on like a documentary shows about like football players Classic sports dad that's just like last time's give me the best he's me the greatest he's gonna work harder than everybody and it was very much that which but I didn't enjoy I loved lacrosse so I didn't see it as a problem.

So it was sort of like he's inducing that that sort of relentless vibe to my life and like practice and then my love for the sport also coming together it worked very well from a young age so like I saw no problem with it my mom's on a problem with the passion of working together like just it met well in the synergy was there of his ideation and my love for the sport and then as time went on and I got older you know I discovered the gym I really fell in love with bodybuilding I saw I watched people like Christian Guzman on the street.

Christian Guzman on on YouTube and OG YouTuber in the fitness world and I was like no I love lacrosse I want to play I want to play pro right now or in the future I want to play pro and I have the aspirations to be the best in the country but part of me like my my inner soul isn't being fulfilled

and as you get older I feel like you discover that more and more and as I approach 15 16 17 I realize like maybe lacrosse isn't going to be my end goal maybe there's something more for me like fitness or doing YouTube like I really don't have that desire from a young age.

Let me add this I made YouTube videos since I was 12 you look up Spartan strings online right now and I am on the internet like I'm Jesse James what I'm like little boy on the internet but I had aspirations outside of lacrosse that just get getting bigger and bigger and the problem was that my dad his aspiration was to push me in lacrosse and push me to my absolute limits waking up early for workouts.

Chugging mask in her shake you got to gain weight you got to get bigger you got to be stronger than everybody else out there in the rain the snow the hail throwing the ball to me and I was home for you home was New Jersey right okay and was around the one the boom docs in the freaking woods he's tossing the ball it's pouring snowing doesn't matter what the weather is.

And we're getting the reps in because I do have this love so I don't see it as a too much of a problem but then there's just a little bit too much force from him to do it where almost kind of push that love away from the sport and I was like I just want to I just want a body build I want to lift I want to do these things.

And you know it developed into what it is today so I'm like super grateful every aspect of where my life went but it kind of we had our struggles and stuff of a relationship because of the love of the sport dying in his push becoming more so it was like a pet you feel is you pulling away it's almost like being in a relationship with someone in the pulling away in your

country and honestly even coaches started feeling you pull away and then I got the pressure from them to so it's like this very odd thing to grow up with when I was 15 years old I committed to lehigh university which is like a very prestigious academic university and I committed was 15 like I they were like you are you're going to be on a 90% scholarship in four years from now so I'm like 15 years old I'm going on college visits I went to

Loyola Rutgers I was looking at Virginia I was looking at lehigh obviously I went to U Dell I like I'm like pitching myself to these coaches as a 15 year old my mom's driving me there like this is so cool and I'm like this is awesome but like also I'm negotiating with a 45 year old coach at 15 it's a very odd you quite mature I feel like I had to be because like I literally would be going into business meetings one on one with a coach in a button up at 15 years old

basically saying why I'm trying to hold together try to understand what the hell is going on but I'm trying to pitch myself to this coach of why I should be on his team in four years from now they got rid of that rule like NCA came in and was like this is ridiculous

you can't scout children literally it's like to it's just too far now they have to wait till they're there September of their junior year to even talk to that what age is that 17 right so a good to like there's a big difference between 50 yeah so like that was a very interesting aspect of my life where it definitely looking back now helps me drastically in business meetings now like I have no discomfort in business for

the best part of a decade literally so I'm only 24 so like for us nine years I'm pitching myself to companies saying oh why why should you give me a higher scholarship than the next place and so I landed a scholarship at 15 for let's say about $200,000 ish for four year period like it's a verbal commitment you're not actually signed you can leave but like you're shunned if you leave like why would you leave this

opportunity especially given that you're getting education essentially for free literally and like my parents you know their middle class middle upper class by now and this was something like you're going to community or you're going to get a scholarship which is nothing wrong community college but like they wanted me to go play sports they were like kind of like dangly in front of me like you need to go do this and I thought that was the best path for me

and obviously things changed as I'm sure we'll get into but things were very interesting from like 15 to 17 18 I feel like I grew up 10 years in those two years and obviously led me here but very unique what is negotiating I think a lot of people even those aren't still 15 can resonate with this sort of having multiple desires at once so I have one thing which I may be very good at and the world gives me recognition for or perhaps I have a

job title or maybe that provides for me or my family in one way or another and then I've got this other thing it's kind of my secret passion I must feel a little bit ashamed about weirdly because it's not the main thing and I've committed so much time to it's I've got sunk cost fallacy into the old thing what have you learned about balancing those two

and the sort of split brain existence that you have there I discovered a lot once I actually got to college you know through those years from 15 to 18 it was like growing up quick and then by the time I was 18 it was very much in your face this is reality now and now instead of this idea of I want to go do this thing but I'm but I'm contracted my lacrosse team to go perform that didn't exist before hand but now it's in place I am at practice

I am at I'm in front of the coach he's telling me that I need to do these things I'm in front of the tutor because I'm failing out of a class that I can't handle and with all that on my plate which many people can relate to there everyone's busy everyone's everyone's schedules hard everyone's trying their best but maybe not

not succeeding yet you know they want to be there and then you have this love for something else like bodybuilding like content and I'm in this situation and I'm I'm young and I'm figuring out that it is only on me to make these decisions and as much as my I've listen I'm very good at

listening to what I'm very good at being told what to do and listening and doing it great and that's gotten me places but also hurt my own personal like soul at the same time because if I don't have that desire to go do it I could still do it and I'll do it great and I'll do fantastic job Yeah I had this this insight around did you ever hear me talk about the region beta paradox so it's why you feel sort of comfortably numb and you're stuck in this weird sort of interquartile range

where things aren't so bad that they're terrible but they're not sufficiently good that you're actually living an amazing life and I had this so this this thing went kind of viral after I told Rogan about it and I came up with this idea called the reverse region beta paradox

being in an aggressively terrible working cadence or environment but having such a tolerance for discomfort that you can endure it for a lifetime lower resilience less stubborn people would snap and have to find a way to change but not you you're the David Goggins of working hard

who's going to carry the workload you are forever You're like speaking my language right now for so long my you know my dad and coaches and stuff and I love my dad I don't want people to think otherwise we have a great relationship now but there was definitely rock rocky times with him and and being on the lacrosse team where I was so good at just freaking being uncomfortable I was like this is my life I've accepted this

if I'm not so happy even if I don't want to do it yeah I honestly just like and I this my shock a lot of people I genuinely thought I was just a depressed person like for years I was like I'm just depressed like I don't think I'm ever going to escape this and that's just I have anxiety and depression that's me but then when I was about 18 I realized that I am the only one like like let's say it's David Goggins I'm the only one I can care the damn boat

okay and that boat is going to crush me if I don't decide to do something with it so I I'm a I'm there I'm there for you I'm going to recall my mom and I was like mom and she's a very like opposite of my dad where my dad's like tough love she's very like soft nurturing love

and I was like I can't handle this I'm making the decision I'm quitting I know this is going to this is going to shock the entire family is going to shock the coaches I'm going to have to do a bunch of stuff I paperwork find a new college we just got here like a month and a half ago at Lehigh

and I'm like how long did you last I did once full semester but it was like we got it on like mid August and by October I was like this is the worst feeling I've ever felt my life I have to be done or this is going to end badly in like a year and I consciously picked up that fucking boat and was like I'm out and it was a very empowering and like it was a very strong spiritual awakening of inner peace

of making this decision for yourself so for anyone that's like listening and trying to understand in their scenario you're the only one that can pull yourself out and like save yourself like truly there might be people that can help you can lean on you can you know you can count on them always you know talking you off the ledge whatever might be helping you but at the end of the day

there's one person that can truly make a decision and do things for you and it's yourself and you have no choice but to make those decisions as uncomfortable as they are and scary they as they are you have you like you have to do these things and make those decisions that are tough let's just linger on that for a second so it's got me thinking about the fact that I'm a big proponent of encouraging people to have social support

I think in a world that's fragmented and atomized and everyone's a droid bleep bleep in their way through TikTok spending a lot of time and having a strong social circle is a really good thing and you lean on friends they help you with lots of stuff but there's a particular category of decision or maybe a number of categories of decisions that your friends simply can't help you with they're not going to help you leave a relationship or leave a job or move house or change country

they'll once you've made the hard decision is in the pivot in direction they can sort of help you speed up I help you slow down they can bring you into land if you man I'm going to have the conversation with my boyfriend or girlfriend and I really don't want to do so and so forth they can help with that but the actual what am I going to do if it's a hard left or right turn there is nowhere else to hide I mean you can have a conversation with them and you can talk it out

but there's nobody else that's going to come and leave the job or the relationship or the flat or the country or tell your parents that you do I don't want to do that thing that they do I don't want you to do it's so important I've learned this in the past like I mean decade for sure but the past few months I have really thought to myself about not having fear because I think I have a fearless tattoo right here

I have many words on my body that I try to just live by so I'm like relentless fearless empathy which always trying to work on being more empathetic carrying as much as possible I mean surrounding people just surrounding core can also support those meaningful things yourself but being fearless is not just going and doing something I'm going to jump off a cliff because I'm scared of it

it's doing the things that like quitting your job because you you're so passionate in this other thing and you're like I'm going to make this happen I think being so fearless in my decision of leaving a scholarship it was something that I didn't even realize I was doing but I think it's the where where I make mistakes in life and have to learn the most which is always good to learn from your mistakes

but what I make the most mistakes is when I'm in fear when I have fear and I and it alters my decision or like puts these glasses on my face that I that I I don't even know they're on and I'm doing things and I'm I'm I'm acting a certain way and I'm like wow I I messed up pretty bad here I made this decision was so stupid because I was afraid of XYZ

what you're compensating to not do the one thing that you know you probably should do but a terrified of doing yeah you've got this large important elephant that you need to slit the throat of yeah and you're going to run around this entire jungle as opposed to just facing that one elephant

and I think that's a whole more he says I think it's Laila actually that says fear is an in steep and a mile wide so when you look at it it looks like a huge ocean that's going to cause you to drown but when you step in it you realize it's just it's really shallow when you're going to survive

and I think that's almost it's really important to do things daily you know have daily habits of getting in the gym doing things that are very difficult maybe maybe join a run club like we talked in our panel

on a new run club start CrossFit or sound up for a marathon or like I said getting in an ice bath is a great example it's like literally one of the reasons I do it because like every day you look at that thing and you're like I hate you this is going to hurt I'm kind of afraid to get in right now but doing those little things that you can accomplish and get over fear for add up and then let's like it's like building habit and building blocks that way when you have these really hard things of like hey that relationships not working this job isn't working you at least know the the habitual side of the world

yeah well you've got a basis where you're not super fragile and if somebody sort of hits you a little bit you're not going to shatter into a thousand pieces yeah that being said I'm very good at the discomfort train breathwork yeah I spath thing but for me I'm a perennial people please I hate making other people feel uncomfortable so I'm a pretty good example for someone that stuff actually the hardness comes easy in the physical realm in the mindfulness

realm in the role of all the rest of it but when it comes to the social realm that never really translated over that much so one of the things that at least I've learned over the last probably only the last year that is a good daily habit or a regular habit to think about leaning into what you're talking about is basically taking the stairs be doing something that's a tiny little bit more difficult than it maybe needs to be that's the

ice bath that's the the sauna that's the whatever a social equivalent of that which has made me braver and fear less in social scenarios is making my making my demands on my feelings known like basically arguing for my own side so somebody says ask me how the days going I'm like dude you know it is actually things are a bit tough at the moment or X lines a conversation where you know that you need to tell somebody about how they made you feel

gotta tell you man I know that you probably didn't mean it but the other day that thing that happened that really pissed me off and I don't want this to impact our friendship but that's I don't want that to happen again this is how it made me feel and I just wanted to let you know because you know cherish this French that's a really difficult conversation to have but those little things so again and the reason I say that is that I feel like there's a big cohort of people who are great at making

themselves suffer and work in physical training in diet in whatever it is and then they still get into the social realm I feel like a pussy why am I such a pussy when it comes to having a difficult conversation with the boss or a coworker or a friend or a girlfriend and that make your demands known advocate for yourself that's what I meant to say advocate for your own needs and make them a priority and tell other people gently and again proving that if you

apply a little bit of pressure you're not made of glass you're going to shatter but one of my old boxing coaches said that the most important lesson that you learn in boxing is that when you get hit in the face you're not going to break that when you see new boxes maybe even up to amateur boxes there's a degree of flinch the flinch response but once you beaten that and you realize you

have remembered that corner McGregor sequence that he did against who is the second guy that he won the title off the lightweight title not Aldo who is the second dude that he wanted to see chases open it up his laptop anyway he's got this he throws this combination but the combination begins with this overhand right from the guy that he's fighting against and it it makes the end of corners knows go like that

it like but he just knows the distance so well I always think about that punch sort of incoming and him basically understanding his tolerance his resilience and knowing that that wasn't going to hurt and he's his he doesn't even blink his eyes are open

Eddie Alvarez wow he doesn't even blink and this fist comes in and touches him on the nose and then from there he's just open to do this so I think socially the same with that have this difficult conversation advocate for your own needs make your needs a priority and believe that they're worthwhile and show that the world's not going to break down people aren't going to call you a selfish egotistical narcissist for doing it and that's a good daily practice to 100%

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your high school I remember you saying that when you started doing something a little bit different your high school became very judgy and they weren't exactly super supportive but as a young person how do you overcome the judgment of other if you don't have the support of people around you yeah so I have like so many scenarios in my head of like sort of screwed up things that people would do or say or what they were I'll explain them so when I was let's just say 15 to 17

I don't exactly remember what exactly what age but I started my fitness page which is now my Instagram and it was called Jesse James fitness you have a little ring to it you know it's like it's clearly not my just name it's like all this brand that I'm trying to do you know sell t shirts worker programs whatever might be and obviously I said I had aspirations of being a

YouTuber and all that stuff and as you're in high school at least in my high school back then also additionally it was not as normal to try to start a YouTube there was no tick-tock like Instagram and stuff and they see this and they see me trying to do it I have a good physique at this point like there's no it's not even like I have no no

physique no no no nothing yeah it's not even like I'm really just trying to be a wannabe I genuinely could already be in the industry in my opinion I have good genetics thank you mom and dad and at this point I have like a few thousand maybe followers and honestly a lot of our pride from lacrosse and I go to the pep rally of like freshman soft

more junior seniors everybody's at their own bleacher there's doing tug of war during challenges battle of the classes it was called and I'm a freshman at this time I remember right now or soft like whatever and the seniors all chant Jesse James fitness Jesse James fitness and I'm standing there and I'm like shit okay I can do two things here I can look down and just

like admit defeat and like let them win and I'm not like that at all and or you know I can keep my chin up I can look at them I can double my legs and say what do you want what do you want so we're going out for tug of war and that's when they were doing it and I just look at them and I'm like and I flex in my head my soul I'm like I'm panicking I'm uncomfortable I'm in bear I'm so embarrassed

like there's the girls behind you that you want to date the friends that you know you're making and all this stuff like I'm trying to be cool and what and what not but I'm like I can't let them see that like it's a poker face that I got to keep on because at least at least I can win that and I feel like I kept doing that for so long I really did like partially not give a fuck but also you're always give

a fuck I still give a fuck I get a hate comment now if I get enough of them I'm still going to give a fuck I'm never not going to give a fuck if you don't care that's just because you don't have a desire in this anymore and I remember I do the flex we do the tug of war whatever and then in the hallways they'd be like Jesse finish what's up man and I just be like what's up bro what's up like you know what I'm on face I don't care and I feel like

people really started to pick up on that and like they're like damn this this this MF is like not breaking and these were like the the junior earth the creative above me or whatever the cool kids I called them the entitled kids they very much were no hate against them now

everyone no big deal it made me who I was but another time was a kid for Halloween I and he might even be watching this I forgive you it's okay he dressed up as me hey no he dressed up as me and I I remember seeing this and I was like this is this is a this is a new level I have to accept like this is fucked and honestly like I'll get into more so he he dresses up in me he has a fucking muscle suit on at a party we're probably 16 17 he was one of the kids

I like go drink with his friends I drank a little when I was in high school whatever I wasn't really a partier I didn't have time I was playing across every day and I was like I'm sitting at home seeing on my my Instagram and I'm like wow this fuckers dressing up as me right now it says Jesse James fitness and like those things just like stick with you as like a a driving motivation of like why I want to make it even more it's almost like a

trauma a trauma reaction like I was traumatized my reaction is I'm gonna I'm gonna win you're not gonna you're not gonna control me I'm going to defeat you and everything in front of me you're just a wall that I have to break through you know and if I can't handle this I don't deserve what I want like if you that that was my mindset and I saw that I remember and and he knows crazy is that now you probably few months ago he mess I'm not I would never name him but he messaged me about my Michael

Chandler collab and he's like dude saw the Chandler collab so sick great job and I was like huh we're in and I was like honestly thank you so one of those weird things about having a chip on your shoulder about stuff that happened in your past that maybe some kids knew or in reflection

realized how much it might have impacted you but a lot of the time it's just kids being kids I know and that's very strange right because the impact of something is so much greater than the like estimate of it it hurts way more than what was thrown yeah that makes sense and I'm that's

a really strange thing I think for people circle for them to squat how can it be the case that this person doesn't deserve for me to still bear a grudge against them date that that hurt and I remember it now maybe ten years like crazy yeah it's definitely stung for a while but it's also like one

of the things that for some reason and I'm going to assume that it's from my mom the way she raised me and always like hyped me up in a way where she she believed in me before I believed in me and she believed in me so much that I ended up believing in myself and everything I am I

weirdly believe in myself for things I shouldn't believe in myself where I'm like I could be I could be a musician if I wanted let's be real Jesse you're a little tone deaf but like you know I mean like I had that mindset that's ingrained in me and from a young age so seeing those things happen and then she would kind of be though she'd be like the backbone she'd be like you can't let this affect you like in reality this is not doing anything it's really not doing anything the only thing

I could do is hurt you and then you're just stopping yourself from doing anything because it's in your head like no one else is seeing that and going you know what I'm not going to support Jesse because that kid wore a muscle suit like that she doesn't exist it's all how we perceive it so having that like backbone and belief in my body that my mom instilled me from a young age I feel like is one of the reasons that I am in the position I am where I have so much unconditional belief in myself

that I tell people that if you believe in yourself like you actually believe not just like oh I believe in myself because I was told by Chris and Jesse on a podcast too like if you genuinely believe in yourself you are 75% already there towards your goals like you will you will accomplish

them if you believe yourself put in the work it's done what has been the what's been the process of closing the loop with your dad yes having been pushed so hard presumably a lot of disappointment when the thing that he's worked on with you for nearly a decade goes like hold

a pen and just toss it out the window that was a that was a very hard time honestly for my whole family because like me it's me my sister my mom my dad and we're all very close we all communicated to on great relationships and for years it was all great but then with my dad

being so and he because he thought this was the best for me he thought this is going to take Jesse successful he's going to have security when he's older like this it was out of love it was just this love that was I guess you could say hurtful in a way and like a little toxic

and so I go through the I'll do the kind of like the run out of quitting and like ripping and pulling the pin on the grenade and chucking it I call my mom I call my sister I believe first I've always kind of gone to her is like all right what do I do like she's just kind of like

another parent to me and she's like you're gonna have to like you just call mom tell her what's going on she'll she'll handle dad that was kind of always how I went like mom's gonna handle dad and I tell my mom and she's like I'll talk to your father and basically my

mom tells me the conversation went like this they came to visit me at Lehigh during an alumni game we were playing a game and after the game we went to target me and my mom are going in just getting like college supply stuff because you go early in sports you you don't go and everyone

gets and I go in there and this has been I've been there for about three weeks and I'm really fucking struggling like very very depressed and I break down crying to her just like I can't keep it in like and I'm just walking target like about like shot the check out

I asked my right and I start to you know and I'm and I'm like oh my god and I look at her like I'm like something so fucking wrong like I feel like I can't feel anything I have no interest in like women right now and not that I was pursuing anything else but just like

my emotion of who Jesse was like I always wanted to go out and like talk to the girls didn't care at all none of that social media I still doing it but I was just like fuck man like my desire of everything is gone the only thing I had that kept me sort of seen was lifting

and music and those are like two things that I like combined together and it was my only safe space and I remember leaving that target my mom then drop my mom and dad are in the car my dad doesn't know I just cried I'm like fucking suck it up like you're fine like getting

the car like I'm the good boy that's fucking completing this mission of ours and when she drops me off she told the conversations she looked at my dad and was like you're not saying a word he's leaving you have no say so shout out Karen to this fucking legend

and she's like you have to accept this and that's how it is period end of conversation and I feel like he kind of knew for a while like I know we're skipping parts in the story of like my darkness and stuff but like he kind of caught the idea a little bit like my

son struggling but I feel like he kind of didn't want to admit it and but what that did was it broke down this massive barrier of how my dad thought I should go about life and also broke down a massive barrier for myself that maybe I don't have to listen to

everyone telling me to do things and maybe I should just listen to myself and actually like pursue things that I want to and I haven't I haven't been able to in six years of my life I've been playing across every day every weekend missing homecoming late to prom

leaving prom weekend because I got to go play in all star game like the shit never ended and like it made me like relentless and it definitely was like dedication and relentless right there but that shit stuck with me for so long of like I didn't get anything for

a while of like experience that normal people have and I feel like it just hit a big breaking point when I got to college and once that happened it was a it was then now like my mom tells my dad Jesse's out accepted or you know you're not going to have a relationship with

your son basically I then you know I come home for the weekend I talk to my dad and stuff and he's like he's very understanding he's like honestly I would I I don't want to speak for him but I think it's one of his biggest regrets is pushing me that that

far to my limits where as a father you never want to push your son into depression or anything not that he pushed me there but like his actions added up the setup yeah and I know like we have a great relationship now we did throughout years it was up and down good bad sometimes

now it's a great relationship but during that time it definitely like change his mindset of like just everything and really like John had to become a new man and accept things and I had to become a new man and learn that I have to say what I want in life do what

I want and like you said hold yourself I have to advocate for myself at all times because I said this is a saying that I stuck with do what you're meant to not what you're supposed to everyone is always supposed to be doing something but if you're not meant to be doing

that why the fuck are you doing it like seriously I wonder how many people have gone through their entire lives never doing anything that they weren't supposed to do yeah you know that there's sad it's just been one big series of dominoes from when they were born

until now whatever age they are where they never told their dad or the equivalent of it that they didn't want to do lacrosse yeah and it's like one of my main missions on social media yes I want to do big things make cool videos but like the truth why of like

the core of why started why do all this was because I went through that and I feel like I went through such a dark phase of my life with such a bright awakening I was like people need to know this shit like people need to just not not be told it but shown it I would

I'd advocate for myself that on my channel it's me living my best life doing cool things that I have desires that I've interested in you know I'm interested in Vikings I'm going to go freaking Norway jump off cliff of Vikings and eat and drink meat and do these

cool things is like that's something I've always wanted to do I have a lot of fascination and stuff like that and I always wanted to leave a subconscious message with my videos like if you're not living life to the fullest like you are missing out on so much and I hope

that people can watch this and realize that you are worth that meant to life rather than that supposed to life and I hope people can pursue their meant to eventually yeah it's scary man that's you know why I think advocating for yourself making your needs known almost

there's this sort of assumption a lot of people have very much a British thing but maybe working class thing too that who am I to actually have needs more desire to want in that regard that there's this sort of weird glory and sacrifice in subjugating yourself it's

like no it's noble for me to hate what I do and still do it it's noble for me to suffer this sort of weird sort of self-flagulation as you whip yourself through whatever it is that you're going through and in some ways there is but no one's going to give you some

award at the end of your life that says he suffered in silence yeah there's not going to be a banner over your deathbed it goes congratulations for never making a fuss yeah I don't think that that exists and so much of the advice that's on the internet

the moment has been born out of a identity politics victimhood fragility overdiagnosis of normal human discomfort as a pathological mental problem world so most of the content is gogins and jocco saying stay hard suck it up but a cup you don't need to be such a

soft person but there is a world of people out there who are making themselves suffer too much who aren't advocating for their own desires who aren't making their needs known who don't believe that they that they should be a priority in their life or in

anybody else's and I think that they're the sort of people that listen to this show and that stuff in many ways pushes them further into what they already have too much of they don't need to do more suffering they need to get better at making that own needs

known to the people around them yeah I think I think it comes down to another like how I said about believing in yourself I think a lot of people weren't raised the way to have that where they need to learn that in their 20s 30s 40s whatever and that's way

harder than growing up thinking that so I'm definitely like very blessed to have that intuition all belief in myself from like day one and I think for those that may not relate to that how I how I have that belief it's one of those things that that's where

I think you need to realize there's things like the nine to five and there's things like the entrepreneurial route and I think it's really important people to realize that it isn't always grass isn't always grass is greener on the other side I think people need to realize

also that there is just as much in some scenarios struggle in and I'm going to do everything on my own I mean entrepreneur you work in 24 hours brother good luck it's hard nine to five good luck if I had to go to that good luck it's hard it's hard on both ends of

life it's just a matter of almost like what evil you want to put your energy into you want to have to deal with like they see gogins and they think oh suffer suffer suffer let's go let's go I'm going to just come to fucking get through this job I don't care and that

makes them maybe they get dopamine off of that but you also could just input that same exact suffer an energy into maybe something that you have passion and drive for it's still going to maybe have its moments of difficulty and suck but at least it's towards something

that like you're in your soul it's different feeling of of outcome of just internal feeling of your like your soul's dopamine hits you know I mean in other news this episode is brought to you by a G1 over the span of about a year I tried pretty much every green string

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AG1 dot com slash modern wisdom what's your advice to people who don't have a supported surrounding that maybe are in a you heard of food deserts it's a places around countries where it's very difficult to get hold of high quality food I often think about role model

deserts or sort of support deserts places where someone is trying to do something a little bit different maybe they're not following the prescribed route that typically people from where they're from are doing and they go because you did it twice you first left

the normal education normal teenager life to do the lacrosse thing and then left the lacrosse life thing to do the next thing so in both situations it's like five things that I've kind of like said I'm out I went I left that normal teenage life that's one left lehi

that's two went to Montclair State University D3 school very close to home sort of like a more expensive community college you can live at and played lacrosse there and played there did very well was like I had the most goals in the team and stuff like that so

again people are like keep doing it bro keep doing it you're doing amazing oh my god every enforcement yeah and I'm like I'm like is this what I'm supposed to be doing though so then that got to a point where I was like I went into I went straight into my coach and

was like hey I don't want to do this anymore that was that was the third time he luckily like I appreciate what he did he was like I want you to shift your perspective I don't want you to look at this I was waiting for the b-bank I don't want you to look at this

as you have to be here just go out hang out with the guys do your thing stop putting pressure on yourself and that lighting it up for a while really did and kind of like as almost like an internal anxiety that we all put on ourselves of like I have to be here I have to do this

oh I got to wake up as 6 a.m. tomorrow well then just being like you know what it's happening let's accept this rather than bite it in that internal fight that internal fight is where anxiety is painful because in your head you're basically living through it multiple times

and you're forcing yourself to feel the anxiety that's happening in real life but if you just take a second this helps me a lot with anxiety I take a step back I go I have anxiety right now and I'm feeling it and I allow myself to feel this anxiety and my body almost

like releases the tension and I kind of relax into it and yes there's still anxiety but it's like it's like when you're in the ice bath and you're oh my god I'm dying this is killing me and then you're like you know what and you just let it yeah it still

hurts just some days you get it not to just let it you have to just let them just accept it except the pain Mark Twain says worrying is like paying a debt that you don't owe and that's it it's not just the discomfort of the thing that you're going to have to do

it's the 50 times that you think about that thing in advance of it and then once you finish thinking about it and it happens you then sort of ruminate about the fact that it yeah I know exactly what I also want to say and I don't think people know this about me

which I'm totally fine being open about but I'm on an antidepressants and I was 15 I experienced a ton of anxiety when I was like 15 I had no idea how to handle it so I kind of like acted out an anger because I just didn't know what this feeling was and it was just straight

up anxiety and it came a lot from the pressure of sports and I only scored two goals today I performed better last week I what do I do I just dropped the ball everyone's looking at me the coaches a mad whatever it might be and I went on to Zoloff not like 50 milligrams

for literally nine years pretty crazy the one time I came off and there was not bringing this up because I want to almost normalize like hey if you're on this stuff like I used to feel ashamed that I was on it and not tell anybody like maybe my two best friends

knew for like five years and no one else knew but I went on it for from 15 to 18 when I went to Lehigh is the only time I ever came off the time you made the most important decision the time I made the most important decision my life and also felt the most

pain in my life did I feel more pain because I was off I have no idea 50 milligrams not a lot it's small but I then went back on you know felt regulated does it work I have no I honestly have no idea because you really tell you mean you without being I never

never be interested in a titrating down a dropping off it or is this going to be for the rest of your life it's a good question I have these conversations one thing that I'm afraid of is altering my mind from where it's at right now I think eventually I think it comes

from a lot of internal work and daily practices to be able to shift off of it like you know I get on breath work I don't do that now I got I got a maybe go in the sauna and the ice bath on a little things like that that I need to take an account if I'm coming off

it the only thing I fear and I could be like just like a trauma thing is in 2018 just being that depressed and having that I think that me stopping registers in my brain as that's going to happen it might not you know it probably doesn't but yeah but it's a

high risk strategy man I mean I have no idea what long term decades long now SSRI usages but you know you've got fiancee you've got business you seem like you have a lot of energy so a lot of the things that seem to come along for the ride with SSRI's like libido dipping

energy dipping desire to drive and train and so I don't have that luckily well yeah it's or maybe it actually if I was out without it like having sex with everyone I've already watched out and away keep away I had Andrew Wilkinson on the show he's a billionaire he

on tiny dot com he's got a bunch of other businesses and he was singing the praise of SSRI's well and this is another another one of those conversations where the midwit headline is SSRI's are over prescribed for people that don't need them therefore all SSRI's a bullshit

and everyone that's on them is a whim right the second order smarter person thinking is there probably is over prescription and maybe SSRI's do only move the needle a little bit especially for many cohorts but some drug some people are hyper responders to certain

drugs and it seems like for you hasn't come with a whole bunch of side effects and it does seem to work well Andrew Wilkinson said the same he tried everything he tried keto he tried carnivore try breath work hope he'd done all of the different things and then

he tried SSRI's yeah it seemed to work so I'm like I'm really keen to just get people out of this reflective midwit thinking which is oh pussy SSRI's you go okay what is it somehow more noble for someone to suffer and be miserable as opposed to take it's the

same thing with those epic I think lots of people are going to come around eventually when the conceptual inertia of taking a pill to lose weight is cheating okay does that mean that the caffeine in your drink is cheating because that's augmenting the way that

you operate does it mean that a diabetic that can't produce insulin that needs to take a shot are they cheating to stay alive they're pussy yeah pussy just like suck it up pussy so I really and I'm fortunate with the audience I have that they're thoughtful people but

yeah avoiding that midwit thinking is something that's super important and it's really cool the SSRI effectiveness for you that seems to have you functioning pretty normally people I've heard on the magcast it's like Sush and James English years ago they were like I

think Jesse's brain automatically produces aterol in his head and I was like that makes a lot of sense I don't I don't do any drugs like whatsoever I drink maybe one drink a month and it's like some the way I'm operated is almost like I am on these performance enhancing

drugs I feel like but just naturally something's in my body and drive and passion so luckily the SSRIs have an effect in me in any negative way maybe that's why I'm like able to work so much I don't know it seems like it's functioning pretty well that's why I'm so happy guys

also to think about what you said that if you were to come off them you would have to go through all of these routines maybe to ensure that mental health was in a good place so last six to eight months for me has been rough I've been detoxing from mold in a house

that I was living in which for anybody that's going through it's brutal I still haven't sort of fully talked about it on the show yet but it's been awful it's so hard and the way that I described it to my therapist was it feels like the gravity of your mood

is so much heavier so in order for me to be in a good mood or for my brain to be functioning well I have to have just got out of a cold plunge after doing a sauna listening to my favorite music on my way to see my friend to eat my favorite food while the sun shined you know

it doesn't just you don't just stumble upon a good mood and you don't just stumble upon a good sort of mind space in terms of energy I'm always forgetting things my mood is always struggling and it feels like swimming upstream and that's kind of the same thing you're talking

about there so when it comes to enhancements in different ways I was talking to Dr. Mike and Crystal his wife the other day and she was saying there's even this new class of SSRIs now that they've dialed in the formulation more effectively it works on a different

pathway there's even fewer side effect basically free happiness and I understand because of up until now most of pharmacology hasn't come along every time that you try and give someone a free lunch there is some unseen cancer down the road there is some side effect

cholesterol through the roof and people are dying because of blood clot whatever it might be there are all of those apart from when you get to the stage where you can fully master these things that's like kind of saying previously well you know we've said that surgery is going

to work for all of this time but each time that we do it people get keep on getting infected like yeah that's because you didn't have an understanding of the germ theory of disease but then as understandings continue to develop I think we should be cautious about using lessons

from the past to sort of inform right now at least super judgmentally so like let's be open to this especially given it's like saying how can you have a computer to talk to you go well I don't know LLM seem to be doing a pretty good job so the same thing might

happen in pharmacology as well but yeah the the idea of having to work hard for a good mood is something that I've been intimately familiar with over the last few months so I feel you it's a fun fact I actually forgot to take mine last night so today I was like withdrawing

that's one of the reasons that I also like to make sure acting the what do you mean what is that alright it's well you didn't take it last night yeah and today you feel it about at the hour and a half ago I was like I was like why am I so fucking dizzy and then I

looked at my fiance and I was like I didn't take my fucking pill last night so I'll turn a corner in my brain with a while so it's it's happening it's about delayed by like for it's like 36 hours I got hit and I was like whoa okay but it's not as if you build

up some passive reservoir of this so it's happening pretty quick that's interesting I've always had that like if I miss it one day I get I get dizzy getting onto some of the stuff that you've done in fitness we talked about this earlier on hybrid training running

is super popular at the moment yeah you ran every day for a month yep what did that do to you it gave me a lot of respect for runners especially hybrid runners honestly all runners and any any new challenge will work out tough but doing it every day it was like new

and fun in your sore in the beginning and it's really hard but I feel like running is a different sort of reward where I see a very quick result where I run three miles on day one horrible time I'm dying I'm cramping I feel terrible I'm like I'm running a marathon

30 days how is it gonna happen by date seven I'm like I can run three miles then when you go to six you know it's hard again you gotta taper up I did a very rapid prep no one really does this Nick bear sort of coached me he's like hey this is the best case scenario

you're gonna run this many miles each day good luck no one should do this but you started from not being a runner yep and within 30 days did what full marathon full marathon sub for baby how did that feel the marathon excruciating it wasn't the most painful thing I've ever

done and I'll segue into what what it is because you want to hear that the marathon the first 13 miles were pretty chill and I was like oh half way like this is gonna be pretty easy like not easy but like I'll be okay and then I get to my all 15 and I was like

broke my legs like I just like not cooperating now mile 16 I entered the wall which they call it's like a wall the wall means the wall running is where you hit this block at period of time many miles one mile could be 10 doesn't everyone's different and it's

the biggest hurdle that you have to get over it's the same you're running at the same pace there's no difference nothing has changed it's just your body has and your body and mind has created this wall that you have to literally get through and for me it was

mile 16 to 24 for many people everyone's like dude when you hit mile 20 you're gonna hit a wall it's you'll get through it you'll get to it 20 20 you'll hit it 20 you hit bro 16 I kept I kept it kept getting drastically worse and worse and I was like I was like I have

to be leaving the wall soon I have to be leaving the wall soon that's 22 why am I still in the wall what is happening am I am I gonna die longest wall in his so and it's probably because I had a very rapid training for it and at this point I'm like my hip flexors

feel like they're in a tear off the bone and I'm very under prepared 30 days is nowhere near enough no one should ever do that unless you're stupid making YouTube video we get some mile 24 I meet an angel of a man I think it's not I believe it's Matt it was like

literally like an angel that someone is put it there and I was like hey hey you and he's like hey oh you're that YouTube guy he's like I've seen you and I was I was like oh can I can I run away you please because we're running we're through the woods also so

it's kind of like a difficult marathon they're all hard and I catch up with him and I look at him I go do not slow down don't slow down I'm gonna I'm gonna keep up with you and we start getting this pace and I'm just like I'm I want to cry already it's it's happening

but I stick with him and then and then he starts slowing down I and then I pick him up and I'm like come on bro come on and then a third dude joins us and we're all dying together and it's like we've never met each other in our lives we're all like you got

this bro what's your name nice to meet you and dying and and we finally make it and honestly like my if I didn't meet Matt at my old 24-ish I genuinely I kept like walking running walking in the last few miles before I met him and I was like dude if I have to walk

this like I have failed so miserable I'm so mad at myself because I know I can I can handle a pain and I kept reminding myself this is not the hardest thing you've done the hardest thing I've done by the way when I finished a marathon my fiance was at the end before

a feeling giver hug saw my mom had my team there laid on the ground couldn't get up I couldn't train hamstrings for like six weeks what would the next few days like oh my god the pain was so bad I was limping for multiple days like could barely lift my leg and for

about six weeks my the tendon behind your knee there's like those two like stringy tendons I could not do a hamstring curl for the life of me I could do like squats and stuff but I could not curl anything like not even like five pounds felt like I probably tore something

and then my hip I could not raise my right leg and then for a while there's a lot crunching going on I was like this was a bad idea and video did great 3.3 million views probably in growing the my favorite part about that video was the the storytelling and ending at

the end was so like pure yeah and it really moved people and got people so like the comments on that video was was different than any of you see Casey nice stats video about his marathon which the the sub three yes I saw how it took him like years decades decade

I ran mine three fifty three and I was super happy with that I was like what the hell did I I'm not gonna lie I'm an athlete I play dealing across I was very good at sports and stuff like being athletic doesn't doesn't isn't hard for me but running a marathon

is wildly different athletic doesn't really matter there just matter of like willpower conditioning gym shark makes the best gymwear on the planet it's literally all that I ever have on and starting November 21st they're having the biggest sale of the year you can get up to

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you can thank a guy named Brian Johnson aka liver king okay this guy psychopath love him great guy to be around uh extremely successful businessman very motivating uh he does this thing called the barbarian you have 15 pound on ankle weights on each leg 15 pound uh or 70 pound backpack

150 140 pounds sled and holding 70 pound kettlebells and it's 112 degrees outside in Texas and it's August or July or something and you have to go through the sand so like sand gives resistance as you pull it's digging it's digging itself into the ground so it's torturous so it's

like three if you add to the math like 315 pounds your carryings like and you have to go mile I've done it once with him the first time I met him uh and we did on flat gravel I did it in an hour in 20 something minutes I beat him by an hour I was like what the hell does happen bro that was like

okay that was one of the one of the hardest things I've done not the hardest then I do the second challenge a year later he invites me back he's like I want you to the barbarian crucible like this sounds terrible but I'm in I'm all four stupid things that I'm gonna have to put myself through

so I literally have scars from this and we do this about quarter mile in I was like already having a first heat stroke and I was like what it I was like bro this is next level because it's through sand it's through dirt it's through uh it's the same thing same exact thing same

mile just the course is 10 times harder and last time he did it it was a competition so you kind of have that like let me chase you feeling this time he's just chilling he's smoking a cigar drinking his whiskey calling the walkie talkie guy next to me talking shit and I'm like I told him I

said I will finish this and this goes back to my like almost stupid belief in myself to where I do things that hurt myself because I'm like I'm not gonna fail I'm not gonna stop so I psychodically do this for like let's take three quarters of the mile and I get to the sand it's like first half

just gravel and dirt and stuff hard but not the worst sand at like last point four miles and I uh I get to this point where I am now full on having a heat stroke I'm freezing it's 112 degrees outside makes no sense I've sweat all water out now I'm covered in white because like my uh

like electrolytes are just on me and I'm like I'm like I'm dying I look at their their producers and stuff I'm like bra I'm done we allowed water I was allowed to drink water they were pouring a ton of water on me but like nothing was working and I look at their producer and I'm like I'm done I'm

I'm going they said if you unclip you're done about time clip and they're like don't do it and I'm like I'm stupid I'm good at being told at what to do like in still doing it and I'm like okay you said don't do it I'm not gonna do it I'm gonna keep going I go I go next heat stroke on the ground

laying there for 30 minutes I'm like my soul has left my body I know I don't have sweat left in my body I'm covered I lick my lips it's salty like I needed some of this stuff great plug yeah but I get to a point where I'm like I'm like dude I have 0.15 left of a mile like I have to just

finish this same thing in the marathon like if I don't I'm just gonna be pissed once I feel better on me pissed yeah and I I somehow slug my way to the end five steps drop five steps drop five steps drop I'm like dead in the face I get there across the finish and I just collapse on the

ground and he's like yeah there you go brother and he's like yeah yeah boy says that's how he's like uh he's like light it the fuck on his all these saying there's psychotic and I'm laying and safe to say it took me four hours four hours to go a mile and that was the most painful thing

I've ever done my life so when I did the marathon I just kept thinking about that and I was like that was four hours of way more pain this is four hours of a different pain my legs have never had so much lactic acid my body my upper body is perfectly fine my mind can push through this

but with liver king it's like your arms are tired your legs are tired your soul you can't even feel your soul because you're so dehydrated was a crazy experience what if you learned about resilience to physical discomfort from the challenges and things that you've done I've learned

that you can push your body so much farther than you'd ever think something that I that I learned at lehi we had a navy seal course come to us and so I hated everything about lehi school the guys were cool the coaches were always nice to me but like the program didn't want to do

all this have sucked when they brought in navy seals and made a stay up 50 hours favorite thing I was I was depressed that's that fucking loved it way better than whatever hell we were doing before so it's like this weird everyone else hated it I was like I don't know why that was the

best part of my month and we do this cool I did I'm like remembering the shit crazy okay I'm like 18 where I'm like I'm like 180 pounds right now I was probably almost 200 just meat stick bro fucking 4500 calories a day and they make us do perfect jumping jacks perfect sit-off perfect push

ups one person messes up everyone is required to call that one person out basically make them feel like shit and then everyone runs because of it we do that for four hours straight they say go home get one hour sleep we go home we fucking lay down we get right back up we're in a pool at

3 a.m. they say put your sweatsuits on full crew neck full sweat pants these sweat pants are like double XL that we're wearing and they're like jump in the pool and I'm like what the fuck and they're like if you can't swim go to the shallow end like that as they said this to us and I was

like something to die we go in and they're like okay we're gonna do the push ups the sit-ups to everything on the outside of the pool we're soaking wet we're doing them we're calling out people for not doing it right and you're you're held accountable if you don't call if you if they

see you see someone and say and you don't go hey Johnny over here didn't do his push up right now you're fuck now you get called out so it's everybody's calling out each other and just saying like you suck you're horrible very traumatizing for some people they just see that the faces on

these people where I'm gonna die and then we go in the pool and we're like okay now we're going into do basically like a deep end simulation thing where you have to take off your sweatshirt you have to switch with somebody and then put it on it's a it's some Navy SEAL training um don't know

the name of it but wild experience that you tread you're treading and you're in like picture like so much resistance on your legs and you're like 40 pounds 20 pounds heavier with this like weighted clothes on you and you're trying to swim and everyone's like everyone trying to like hey you got

this you got this you're talking each other up and they're like all right everyone take off your sweatshirt and you have to go on a ready ready attack call so like everyone's on the exact same page and you take it off and you're treading you're treading one arm you have to hold it up in one arm

until everybody is ready you know and it takes two minutes at least to get these things off it's like stuck to you kids don't know what they're doing some kids literally are being held up by other people I shouldn't say kids we're like adult at this time and we're treading we're treading and then

it's like ready ready attack switch with somebody you switch now ready ready attack put it on so think of like a wet rag like stuck together and you're like trying to like find the opening and you're treading still for like right like minute eight of treading and then we put it on and we're like all

just dying some kids are near drowning like genuinely just two people holding their arms up and they're like their head is barely above the water and if they don't complete it restart we did like four rounds of this thing and they would they look at the team captain go how quick can you do it

they want it to push the hell out of us and the team captain says something like two minutes okay do it again they look at them again you didn't you didn't 150 how quick can you do it 130 they're like all right 130 you didn't 125 how quick you're doing all right 120 we do it we get

all the way down to like 115 120 and we're all we've been training water for like 40 freaking minutes because in between maybe you get like a quick put the shoulder on something but you're back crazy experience and that is pre-YouTube challenge so like doing that uh definitely showed me like

you're capable of so much those seals that day were like listen when you think you're done when you think you're done not just like I'm tired I'm done when you think you're truly done you have 40% left in the tank and you need to tell yourself that every single time when you're on the field

when you think you're done 40% left keep pushing and I was like damn I'm gonna live by that and like obviously I'm not a Navy seal by any means or anything but like that that that stuck with me and when I get in those moments I think there's still 40 like that still sticks to me 40% left when I

am a marathon and I'm at mile 24 still 40% left sadly yeah I wonder again how many people would benefit from really formative experiences like that you know it's such an opportunity for you to do it as a college athlete but most people get out of that you know I hear about um these alpha boot

camp things that are happening I know the owners and there's a bunch of them a bedross has been on the show yeah if you know him uh and there's it's kind of easy to mock online because the storyline tells you too much it's just way too easy of a headline where yeah someone says uh man pays $10,000

to have dude with beard and full sleeve shouted him while he doesn't sleep you know it's a funny headline but when you actually look at what those kinds of formative experiences maybe teach you and the fact that you got to learn that at 18 yeah the reason that it's a bit that people think it's a bit cringe and it might be cringe I'm not too sure the reason the people think it's a bit cringe is why are you at 45 needing this and go well what if you've never had it before exactly if you've never

pushed yourself to that place before normal person at what point in your life are you going beyond that 40% line that you think is your normal one you know even someone that runs marathon if they're preparing for six months or a full year for it it should be a relatively sure thing unless you've

got some sort of weird pathology in your heart blows up halfway yeah it's a difficult and impressive but relatively and then you're okay what about an iron man well okay even with that the point is that you're training to be able to do the thing yeah it would be almost like I see

what you're saying you're doing doing something that you're almost not prepared for it yeah towards yourself so much that you will gain a much more valuable lesson than if you prepared for it yeah of course which is crazy yes and going through that I'm very great this is where the moments where I

then look back at my dad setting me up in these situations where I'm like thank you so much for it even though it's rocky at times thank you so much for making me go do this because there's a reason I'm in the position I am there's a reason I can handle so much and there's a reason that

I can push myself so much and all falls back to being in the rain the hail the snow and throwing the ball a million times and I'm like why are we doing this it all makes sense now and the way liver king is is why I respect him so much and yes he has a how to scandals but as a man and you

could argue this because he lied whatever as a man that I know as he's like a friend of mine I see his sons and then I see the way he is with them and how it's similar to my father and the way that he pushes them and the way that my dad pushed me and I look at I looked I told them and I said I

know it might not make sense now what your dad is doing and how you got to do the barbarian you got to you know be strict with your diet or whatever I'm like it's going to make give it 10 years you're going to thank him and I promise I promise they will I won't say I promise but 99

percent there might be one percent chance that they will and that's like one of those things where doing hard things is so necessary and I think even if you're 45 I mean what age is born Buffett become billionaire or a millionaire wasn't like 40 or 50 years it took a long time oh

let's make fun of his freaking self for for why weren't you a millionaire younger bro like no he's a billionaire now like it doesn't matter what time you start with age you start I think the fact is that not everyone has the opportunity to go to a D1 lacrosse program on a scholarship and

have a dad push them and care for them that much with that he wants to put him in that scenario where you end up going do those things and learn those lessons at 18 so it's unrealistic some people do have to learn lessons in adulthood that they should have learned in childhood and we all

do there's a million lessons to learn and it's kind of it is very strange in a world where we want people to be more resilient there is an odd amount of sort of teasing and pity and mocking for people that takes stuff seriously when they get into later life and you go okay it's not far off

the developmental equivalent of mocking a fat person going to the gym yep you go the exact thing that they need is the thing that they're trying to do I partner to a function health because I wanted a better way to track what's happening inside of my body they run over a hundred lab tests

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can trust that the data and insights you receive are scientifically sound and unbiased plus Dr Andrew human is a scientific advisor and Dr Mark Hyman is the chief medical officer function has a wait list of over three hundred thousand people but every Monday they open a few spots for modern

wisdom listeners so right now if you go to the link in the description below or head to function health dot com slash modern wisdom you can bypass that wait list today that's function health dot com slash modern wisdom speaking of fat person going to the gym you competed recently you got

me a fat person before I'm getting a leaner I was less lean true you competed yes what was that process like what's it feel like to be that lean terrible um so I'll explain once again this is sort of a scenario where it's I tend to do things in a much shorter period of time than you're supposed

to one because it's like a new challenge that I think is different than everyone else's challenge that maybe I just don't drawn to but then secondly I think it's it's more interesting for videos and real life and more realistic for me I can't devote a year to training I could like I

realistically I got other three other 90 day or three other 30 day videos I want to make this year so I can't devote a year to training for a marathon I only got 30 days and then when that's done I got the next 30 day challenge are we can about 5 a.m. and can't do multiple you can't

do multiple at once unless you want to be shit so restate the question sorry what does it feel like to be that lean what does it feel like to be that lean so the process of losing that much fat in such a short space of time so you're looking like a bodybuilding prep it's 16 weeks I did mine

in let's say eight I'm always pretty lean I never really bulk past like 15% body fat um the first week or two is you know like you're like all right it's tough you're new cardio whatever maybe you're tired but the last like three weeks um we're so so tiring and like emotionally stealing in a

way where I literally felt nothing like I was a corpse you could look at me in the eyes and you could be like you're thinking nothing right now you have no emotion and everyone experiences prep different some people look at it in a very beautiful way and they're they love seeing the

changes in their body for me it was tough seeing the changes like did it looking back at photos damn I was shredded but then in the moment it's very odd because you look at yourself and you pinch the side of your body and I'm like I'm not even that lean this more fear is strong I'm so

skinny right now like I don't look like see bum I look I look stupid I'm yeah I'm posing in my legs are my legs aren't even touching they're so skinny you know it's like you start really picking at all these negative things in your head and if I wasn't making content around it I think

that definitely helped keep my mind off that sort of dysmorphic thought and it was like okay we have a mission here we're making awesome videos at the same time I can focus on that more but it definitely it took a huge toll my relationship uh I literally like every single emotion I just didn't

have like I couldn't feel happy I couldn't feel sadgently honestly I don't really deal with too much hunger which is like a gift it's just lack of energy I feel like lethargic of I feel like I know my blood sugars low what is a hypoglycemic I feel very helpless thisemic all the time and I was

like this is just brutal just get to the end date the show is very fun experience it's very rewarding it's awesome being on stage you you know yelling most muscular posing against people awesome experience highly recommend everybody to do it maybe once uh or at least think everybody should

get pretty lean wants to experience what it's like to one look at your best and two really see the different type of hard work it takes to get to the next level of body conditioning because my level and then there's even so much farther that sea bum goes and every other competitor out there

I just name him because I feel like what do you think you got down to uh great you said six percent okay so even let's say six and a half to be friendly yep um pretty lean pretty lean and as a natural my hormones were tainted like like 200 nanograms test 200 free like oh my god dude

thankfully still works come back still works don't worry but the feeling of 200 test is absolutely horrible and that's like one reason why I just like don't have a desire to compete anymore slash for a very long time what was the hardest part of it I feel like accepting you know what it

is the hardest part is that same anxiety fight where these you're like I'm so uncomfortable and your body like wants to tense internally and fight this uncomfortability feeling rather than empathetically activated yeah rather than just like like I talked to Chris about this recently

and he was like you have to just know that this is your choice you can stop if you want and he almost I feel like he has that like where he can turn that that internal battle against it and a lot of other successful bodybuilders have that ability I haven't learned it yet but it's the same

as you were saying I've got to get up at six in the morning I'm gonna get up at six in the morning as opposed to I'm just I'm just I'm just going to get up at six in the morning yeah exactly yeah so funny man I think it's it's cool to see uh you're like an elite normal you know what I mean

you're kind of a representation for nobody looks and goes see bum genetic freak once in a generation bodybuilder with a fantastic background yeah the perfect nutrition and a little bit of hormonal help and all the rest of it so when I ask him he's on the show this week when I speak to

him about what prep feels like what theory of mind have I got to know what it's like to be crispum instead the body yeah not but I feel like you're just elite normal you're just like no ray way to put it yeah dude we got to take my teams behind there we got to take notes and that's

gonna help that's gonna help like ideas the best of the norm because if you think about it it's like that's like I didn't elite normal thing the marathon elite normal thing wake up at 5 a.m. for 30 days it's not really that much elite that's more normal um cult plunge every day so it's just

cold having a kid yeah or or we had a puppy in the same thing yep but uh yeah I think I think another experience that really stands out to me this is kind of tangent but an experience I want to talk about that truly changed my life was with Wim Hof and that was oh my god that was such a

magical experience doing that in person because we know what the Wim Hof method does I'm sure if you've ever done the the breathing yeah of course so we know we know how good that breath that breathwork feels the ice bath you get in door fence but imagine doing it with the dude that's like

the guy creator of it almost you know what I mean and that kind of person really I felt so like safe with him and I come in first thing we do he's like let's what Finland uh nor uh nether netherlands netherlands they're all the same I'm like where I'm in the whole area I shouldn't

say that this low you're not listening Finland uh but it did you do that thing where you have to penguin dive off the he did he did it I didn't I was like that's a little dream that water is gotta be like 31.9 degrees Fahrenheit um but yeah we first thing he does dive in the cold water I'm

like oh my god and I'm like a from I'm a little familiar I've been taking cold showers to prepare for this video and I'm like all right we're in it let's go and then we do we do some abs we do some breath work and when I want to talk about the breathwork because that was the most like

spiritual awakening moment I've ever had in my life he does four three four rounds of breath work one minute one and a half two two and a half three and you hold your breath for those lengths of period uh the the time period that I just mentioned and we get to the second of last round

and I'm at two two and a half I'm feeling so safe with him and I'm like you know I'm just gonna I'm just gonna like not fight it and you could have that anxiety about this but I just I'm here let's make it happen hold my breath two and a half minutes goodbye that man on the dot my sister was there

timing uh the the two and a half on the dot he goes and time and my sister's like on the like she didn't even say anything it was two two twenty nine point nine yeah and it was like this dude another level and then we do the three minute and I hope my breath for three minutes

straight it feels like 30 seconds it flies by I open my eyes and I have just this insane euphoric feeling I don't know if I was dying and maybe that's what you're supposed to feel when you die I this insane euphoric feeling I open my eyes I see my sister I have my cameraman I have whim and

like the this this feeling of just purity of love and I'm just like gratitude and nothing else mattered it was like it was almost like I was like born into this exact moment and I knew nothing about the universe and it was just how you're supposed to feel it's crazy and that was a very

life changing moment I've done the breathing a few times since then I probably need to get back and do it but that in the ice bath like man's onto something and I don't know what happened inside my brain but that was the most content and like happy feeling like a different type of

happy it was just I had to share that I was it really it really does clear your mind in a crazy way if you do some forced breath work Wim Hof breathing whatever you want to call it the last time have you ever done it and passed out no I've seen people okay so I've I've pushed it a little bit

hard in a couple of breath work classes in Austin and you sort of come back around and you've got whoever the facilitator is with their hand on your chest sort of chilling you out and they do something with your neck and maybe it's to do with your nerve here or the blood flow here I'm not

really too sure but I always see the same fucking cat every time I do it this fucking cat pops up it's just this face looking at what I don't know what I don't know what the DMT being released on your brain bro would you you ever gonna pivot into psychedelic bro era I I did I want to go

every day I haven't oh I did I want that's conmer if you're right there yeah well exactly drinking semen so I'm trying that yet so psychedelics I have friends that have done it I've people that are close my life that I've done it and no judge me whatsoever cool do whatever you want

for me I feel that I almost have a little bit of an enlightened mindset as is that I feel like I've awakened from reaching a point of peace when I left Lehigh in 2018 when I was 18 years old like quit I had this like super spiritual awakening moment where I could not describe it but I could

like sense your energy in like the most pure way I'm like you are full like I don't I couldn't just I don't know what language I needed to speak it but I'm like you're full you're half you're like I've a sound I thought I was fucking crazy dude I probably was and I feel like that sort of

open my mind and like well maybe maybe the mind is is capable of just naturally experiencing all these crazy phenomenon things and I feel like I also have this this undoubtedly belief in myself that maybe a psychedelic would open up for somebody else and like gratitude like they'd open up

and I have like I have a good base of that and I don't want to fuck with it so that's like my mindset of the SSR rise in so exactly it's like my mind I'm happy I love my life like beautiful fiance families healthy got a dog got a house like my life is awesome I truly am grateful my fans

are amazingly support me all that stuff so it's like one of those things where it's like if I do this there's a chance that it goes there there's always I've heard you hear the horror stories of it going south and I'm like why would I mess this up everything's good writing so high if I if I find

a need where I need an awakening I don't know maybe but like I also like I've literally never done anything stronger than smoking pot when I was like a teenager like once and I've never done any any brain type of not I've never touched that role never done cocaine nothing at all I probably

will die never doing it which I'm fine with but I just I'm very like protective of where my mind is and the trajectory of how my mind develops naturally and stuff where I'm like I don't need I don't need something to alter to I don't need more I'm not I'm already I'm on that ride on my own I

don't need that kick maybe I'm maybe I'm maybe I'd be a billionaire if I took something crazy shit you know maybe you'll turn into connomerty and have a it's one of those things you don't want to risk you know I told a breakdown yeah just going back to the getting lean thing there was this

news article I saw recently YouTube is to limit recommendations of certain health and fitness videos to teenagers including those which may idealize certain body types it says 13 to 17 year old users will still be able to search for and view fitness related content but will not be encouraged

into repeated viewing of similar videos YouTube says it is acting because of concerns that repeated exposure to such material can leave young people to develop negative beliefs about themselves the platform says this will no longer be offered for teens when they can view certain types of content

including videos that compare physical features and idealizes some types over others videos idealizing specific fitness levels or body weights videos displaying social aggression in the form of non-contact

fights and intimidation the measures were being taken after its youth and families advisory committee found that teens are more likely than adults to form negative beliefs about themselves when seeing repeated messages about ideal standards in content they consume online what do you think of that

I think it's very stupid because and if YouTube's watching I love you guys as a platform but this is dumb because think about it like this okay fitness might influence a teenager to do steroids let's say I have a video coming out on that um but the music videos that are dudes swinging guns or

I don't know idealizing weird things that like there's always conspiracy behind like crazy you know music videos and stuff and I don't care what it looks like but that can just as well influence a teenager to go try smoking pot or go hang out with the wrong crowd or something like

it you could be influenced by literally anything and also I think this is why I don't think it's going to happen because the amount of money that fitness cpm's in fitness are well they're not the the best but they're probably one of the top 10 go finance they're not saying finance but they're

right there do like right below it on on the next year so many supplements cpgs exactly so YouTube be shooting themselves in the foot because there's so much content that's just good and I wonder how much is derived from 13 to 17 year olds age brackets a lot or everyone's

gonna lie about their age and nothing gonna change and they're gonna make new accounts I do think you're right that I think the advertising is way too they're way too lucrative on advertising on these videos I get I mean dude I'm getting like 5 million views 1 million to 5 million views on every

video you're gonna cut my ads good good for you you're gonna make no money I'm gonna go for I can start a patreon yeah yeah like the negative beliefs thing seems odd given that we just went through a body positivity movement that was glorifying people being big so it's okay so not only

are we glorifying fat people we're also now limiting your ability to see people who might actually be fit I mean think about just think about the entire generation mine into yours do you I was the start of it with sort of this mad ogus then bleeding down I guess into the matters fitness see sort

of Mike this and type stuff now into your era hmm all of us were brought into this because of youtube the weird thing is is that one I've asked my youtube rep like I'm like please tell me this is this is false and he's like oh so you you brought this up I straight up sent it to youtube one of the

employees and I was like there's no way this is true right like you I'm like and if you if it becomes true you need to tell me a sap um he didn't think it's like real he was like he said first thing he said was cap and then I was like okay what color hat I'm kidding that's stupid joke um and

so he says like he thinks that and then I sent it I sent him that article that you just read and I'm like are you sure and he's like I just I don't know he's like it just sounds like it wouldn't be like plot like plausible but hypothetically let's say it does this is what's going to happen

to the fitness industry there's going to be a huge divide of people that I don't want to say that they're not intelligent enough but they're not let's say social networking aware enough to adapt to be able to bypass there they're going to be like oh fuck this I'm going to keep

doing what I want and it's just going to hurt themselves the really dumb mindset people that are 13 to 17 are watching your videos dude as I get bigger it's getting more and more interesting like kids out I'll be got the grocery store and they're like I see you a tick-tock and stuff

and I'm like all right watching I'm like what video is you watching bro skinny yeah but it's like one of those things where one I find it hard to believe that'll happen and if it does I have the unbelievable un I have the the believability in myself that it's like I'm good I'll pivot bro yeah

well I don't know how big your 13 to 17 year old fan bases but I don't know it's a an interesting it's an interesting challenge because I would have been very I would have been very disempowered I think you know watching YouTube and seeing fitness advice from the internet it's also it's

such woolly language what do you do like Jeff Nippard like is Jeff Nippard can be sent to evidence based lifting saying that it's like okay then in every video I'm just gonna beach I'm gonna call a doctor and say this is evidence right yes thank you there check send

in for review again like there's gonna be there's a rule there's a way around it that's how I see it what you've done a million videos with Ronnie Coleman yes I get sad when I see him okay I mean I know he's still got the sort of yeah buddy thing but he's also largely a man that's crippled

yeah you know it's tough being around him it was something definitely like to get used to at first because I've shot five videos with them total some with him you know and I was with the young L.A. before Jim shark and out of yet events with him always love seeing him there's been a few times where it's been like genuinely like I felt like felt very bad and the few times where it's like I complete forget and I think almost he's forgetting he's just like have he's just Ronnie you know he's

very authentic which is awesome I have a blast with him every time I see him the one time where I was like damn bro this is like kind of brutal like to see because I mean he's a legend he was obviously not crippled at one point and fully thriving and it was when it was when we were at his gym in

Texas in Dallas Metro Flex Arlington and the equipment is so damn congested there and he trains all time so clearly he like does not mind but his his inability to maneuver from just like one area to the next and everybody's like pausing exactly disabled access yeah not at all it was like

horrible setup for him but like obviously he is a home base where he likes to be so he feels good but it was like I was like like do you do you you want to help him do you want to like hey you need help get it but is it patronizing is exactly I don't want to I don't want to field I always my

biggest thing with anybody I'm ever with I don't care if you're fucking doing the rock Johnson or Joe Shmoed on the street I always go into my shoots or like meeting people with just like so bro like there's no like no difference because I know I don't I don't want anyone to ever feel

like I look at them in a certain way or I'm I'm idolizing over idolizing them and that bothers them everyone ever idolizes me whatever like you know what I mean so I wish just he's Ronnie's a dude you know whatever so I don't I don't want to push boundaries too far and then one time another time

we were on a boat and several on a yacht it was Ronnie's fucking yacht in Dubai and he's just chilling downstairs and he was very content and I was like Ronnie you you want to thank very chill chillin and I'm obviously I don't know what's going through his head and it's one of

those things like you know back in the day maybe he'd be up there fricking fist pumping and shit he was always like a very extra very person still is to a degree but I think it's one of those things where he when you talk to him uh and you talk to him out given you I asked him Jimny regrets

and you're grunting like what you've done and he's like no no right that's true I mean he's he tells me his only regret is that he didn't go for seven or eight reps on his eight hundred pounds squat and then he says yeah buddy and I'm like I believe it but I think maybe you never know you know

I think you should have a pain is he in day to day do you know I've heard many things I just I don't know yeah I've heard that he said my pain is always at night out of 10 and I take the maximum dose of whatever that pain killer is that's super super he's doing a lot of stem cells okay and he

says it with every treatment it gets better and better and better not good so you know yeah it's uh it is it is uncomfortable to see dude uh and it's so odd as well because you've got Jay Cutler who is as far as I can tell perfectly functional we were with Phil he talked about it with Phil

Heath today Phil Heath healthy again you get playing basketball yeah dicking around so I think that's the importance of realizing I mean right now I have a slip disc in my back and like in it I'm not able to squat not I could if I like go into my head but like shouldn't squat shouldn't

deadlift all that stuff yeah uh but it's those type of things where you know when people say like careful squatting careful deadlifting you're gonna mess up your knees you're gonna mess up your back and you're like no I'm fine I'm fine I'm invincible until you wake up and you're like shit the hood

I just I broke something or does that you have to pass a knees man backs and knees are two things that you just gotta be super super sensitive with yeah uh you know the the end of my hard core fitness career was two bulging discs in my back really and then I just thought right okay I'm it took

it was uncomfortable for maybe three or four years for me to realize okay you can't do what you used to do responsibly you can do it but you're just rolling the dust what did you do to fix it to just stop doing things like that uh so stuma gills big three uh yeah so you should speak to

stew about back pain I can intro you if you want please he'd love to speak to you um he is the number one lower back pain specialist on the planet uh he's done a lot of these studies the original studies at Waterloo that much of sort of back pain science uh was built on I get the

sense that the field is continuing to progress now uh I haven't spoken to him about my stuff in a little while tapped into him before I went and did stem cells and medine last year just by the ask you have iridon stem cells I did stem cells experience like bio accelerator uh okay I know them

so Columbia yep yep medine um psychologically neutral quite enjoyable experience the services very good physically very rough uh really so for me because I got site injections so I had uh intraarticular into the shoulder capsule and my rotator cuff there's no uh anacetic um into the

quad tendon above and below the patellar uh and then into my Achilles that I ruptured straight into the tendon uh so the ones that I got I got every lumbar facet joint down my back I got one intradiscal injection into one of the bulging discs one of them was so bad that they couldn't

they weren't even prepared to do it the other one they did but you're under general anesthetic for that so you just go to sleep you wake up you're like oh sweet that's all being done but the uh ones in my knee and the not the one in my shoulder was maybe an eight out of ten page the one

into my knee I'm bouncing off the bed screaming the nurse left this nurse who's conditioned at seeing this stuff because it's a tiny little tendon like that that this guy is trying to fit viscous fluid into yeah and you think oh well at least at least that's the pain over and done with and then the

inflammation response comes yeah and it is I had to walk like the tin man out of uh fucking whatever that movie is and I can't bend my knees oh for days I was that you know Al Jermaine sterling he was the bantam weight or flyweight whatever

the super lightweight uh thing in the UFC uh he was a champion and he got his wrist done when he was there he got his neck and his wrist and so he was my lab part and my clinic partner for the week yeah he his wrist hurts so much he couldn't pick up a phone oh so the weight of a phone

was so much that it caused his pains the his wrists means a ton of pain so basically pretty uncomfortable but it's a unique category of pain because you know that it's in service of making you better so almost all pain you put your hand over a flame and you know that you're gonna need

a skin graft you break your leg and you wonder whether or not you're going to ever be able to walk the same again but this pain you as long as you have faith in the doctors which I did you go this is kind of like the suffering that you go through before something great happens on the other

side of it so again you know one of the themes today has been the story that you tell yourself largely determines your experience of the thing that you're going through so the story I'm telling myself is I'm screaming bouncing off this bed but there was no fear yeah it wasn't wrapped in

terror or worry or anxiety it's just straight pain yep I'm all right I'll I'll shout and scream through a call call the doctoric up the names uh so that was interesting for me stomachills big three I did for a long time I mean I've done thousands of hours of that one

routine then he came up with I've done it around the world I've done it on a paddle board I've done it in hotel rooms I've done it show me I can show you um so that's helped and then his main thing is he causes people advises people to keep a neutral spine so he calls it spinal hygiene

so the book is a back mechanic by stew um it's a little bit expensive it's about $60 bucks but it's really good and um in it what he's advising is don't bend at the waist when you need to tie your shoes if you're brushing your teeth uh at the basin most people just hinge from the hips but you can

actually support by having one hand to brush your teeth and the other can actually be relieving a little bit of the weight by putting your hand on your thigh or putting your hand on the basin and he's got an advice for how you get up and get down off the ground without going into spinal

flexion so the whole goal is to just get your back to chill out um but it's a very especially if you have do you have a fall on back attack was it a slip disk where you were locked in no no okay I like woke up and just like couldn't not bend backwards okay so if you even going through that

his uh suggested protocol is just so slow and and kind of frustrating but now I have no pain I can sit and stand for as long as I want I don't I'd left but step up lunges reverse lunges walking lunges leg press uh all of that is fine and I'm sure I probably could squat if I wanted I just

think uh I think I can achieve I think I can achieve the same gains without doing that so yeah I I pivot one of the other things I was interested in asking you you've worked out with a variety of non-typically fit people like okay inmates and gang members and stuff like that yeah who are some of

the sort of secret fittest guys that you've been around that you wouldn't have all of construction workers right dude I mean I found the strongest ones that exist basically why do you find strong construction work is you hire a really good producer right uh and on Instagram um they were

they do construction and they were freaks of nature definitely uh on some sauce definitely not any okay I'd say another one would be the x convicts I mean that's like stereotypical they work out a ton they were very they're they're more just jacked big hands on the construction work as

I imagine monsters hands you know it's really you know it's really uh who has really good strength is like arm wrestlers hmm at least our arms like Insta the the sheer strength of Devon Lair's hands I tried to even David later when I get some like two hands you go dude you're never getting

anywhere arm wrestlers are built differently like their tendons have just like calcified yeah probably yeah from all the scar tissue I did one arm wrestling competition I could I was walking like a t-rex for like a week cuz I could not move my arms and for them to do hours and hours and

hours I can't imagine what their tendons look like dude that's so cool Jesse James West ladies and gentlemen dude I appreciate the hack out of you where should people go gonna keep up to the guys check out the YouTube channel Jesse James West and uh stay relentless that yeah thanks much thank you Rob thank you for having me seriously we did it all right you guys got my check