#577 - David Goggins - This Is How To Master Your Life

Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. My guest today is David Goggins. He's a retired United States Navy SEAL, Ultramarathon runner, triathlete, public speaker, and an author. The ability to overcome challenges in life is one we will all need sooner or later. Make no mistake, discomfort is coming for you, whether you're ready or not.

Goggins happens to be one of the best individuals on earth at dealing with hard things, and after a very long time, without any podcast appearances, I might have been a vagus to find out what new insights he's uncovered. Expect to learn what most people get wrong about motivation.

Goggins thoughts on claims that SEAL selection is too hard, what the most painful experience of his life was, the danger of success making you soft, why he ran the Moab 240 twice with no knee cartilage, why he recorded a mixtape of insults from the internet, how to overcome laziness, what David's entire daily routine looks like, and much more. This is a very special episode. I hope that you take absolutely tons away from it. It's open and vulnerable, it's raw,

it's motivational, it's fantastic. The guy is the real deal. However legit, you think David Goggins is, he's even more legit than that. I can't wait to get this episode out. And if you fall in love with the audio version, there is a beautiful 4K cinematic production available on the Chris Williams and YouTube channel, which you can go and check out. Also, I am sorry to say that

this is only one of two podcasts that David will be doing in total for his new book. So he did Rogan in December, he's doing Modern Wisdom right now, and that's it, and he's going away for maybe another four years or so. So if you are a David Goggins fan, this is all you're getting, and if you would like to say thank you to me for somehow managing to swindle my way into being one of only two podcasts that he did, all that I would ask of you is that you hit the subscribe

button on whatever platform you're listening to. It genuinely does help the show. It makes me very happy indeed, and it ensures that you will never miss an episode when they go live. But if you want to be a superstar, you can share the episode of the friend as well. This episode is brought to you by NetSuite. What does the future hold for business ask nine experts, and you will get 10 answers. Rates will rise or fall. Inflations up or down. I'm still waiting on Elon Obeyzos to successfully

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books you should read before you die. That's chriswillx.com slash books. Anyway, enough of that. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome David Goggins. David Goggins, welcome to the show. Hey man, appreciate you having me bro. Thank you. Thank you for being here. Where have you been for the last four years? You've been jumping out of helicopters and fighting fires and shit. What have you been doing? Well, I did that last year.

Well, I guess this year I did that, but I've just I just do me, you know, I'm out there running, working out and just trying to find out more of what this is all about trying to find out more what I'm all about. So that takes me getting away, you know, I'm not about even doing these podcasts, man. So not nothing against you, but I'm not about all this stuff. I'm not one that likes to hear himself talk a lot about action and action means less talking and more doing. So

that's right. Ben, what is that smoke jumping stuff? So basically, it's, you know, about wild and firefighting about when the forest has fires. There's a lot of times there's roads and there's access to get there. So these, you know, whether it be a hot shot crew or whatever, these different crews who come in by vehicle, they can get into the fire that way. What a smoke jumper is is you can't get a vehicle into that place. It is a spot where it's tight. There's no

vehicles. There's no access. So they'll send us in there smoke jumpers jump out of airplanes and we'll land these really tight small drop zones with all of our gear and we'll put the fire out. How do you take water in? We jump out. So everything is hang on. You're jumping out of a airplane parachute with backpacks of water like a camel pack type thing. So we'll jump out. We have this is called a diddy pack and it sits in between, you know, it sits like by your waist, you know,

on your legs area when you jump out and that has a lot of your gear. But what happens is once you jump out, the aircraft will go lower and will push out all the rest of your gear. Your water pumps. Oh, and that'll get air dropped in with its own little parachute. Right. So a lot of our main gear gets dropped into us and then we're out there for several days until the fire is put out by us and only us. That's insane. It's insane. Yeah. Why do you do that? Well, we're left in military.

I'm always looking for more. I'm always looking for what's the next thing for myself. How can I grow and that right there was the next thing for me? You know, I didn't want to sit back and, you know, just enjoy my retirement for the military. There's no growth in that. So I decided to go out and do this. So you jump out of an airplane with a team. You get your kit also parachute it out of the back. You're now in the middle of an area where there's no evac. There's no

vehicles that can come and get you. There's a fire. You need to put the fire out and you don't stop until you're done. That's it. Sometimes there is a way to get out. But a lot of times it's just, you know, if someone gets hurt on the jump a lot of times we have to build like cut down a bunch of trees so helicopter can come in, land and get them out. So we are the only access. We have to save ourselves. So a lot of times we are the team to get us in and to get us out. What was the longest

mission exercise for you? I think the longest one I did was seven days. So. And what's the sort of daily routine you sleep in? Do you get much sleep at all? No, not really. So what happens is anything about being in Canada. So I do this out of a out of British Columbia. So what happens is there's a lot of daylight. So when I'm out there, man, there's a lot of daylight. In the middle of the summer when it's honest, when you've got tons of, right? Okay. That's right.

So there's not much, there's not much dark. So you're basically working a lot of hours. So and then when it gets dark you're actually working through the nighttime. And then you get a little, you know, you get a little rest and you wake up and you're at it again. And then with the fires out, you patrol the fire. Make sure there's no more hot spots. Make sure everything is black and wet because we literally wet the whole area down. So there's no hot spots. And then with that's all done.

Well, demo, which means we'll clean up all the stuff. All our hoses. You know, we'll pack up all our stuff and then we'll get out of there. Did you ask us to be paid for this? I, I get about, I think the pay is about 12 to 15 bucks an hour. So it was funny about it, man. Like when I first started doing this job, people didn't know that, you know, I'm actually successful in business. And then it realized that I was like, basically turned down millions of dollars to do this job.

And they can continue thinking it to make 15 bucks an hour. So yeah. But you know, like I said, for me, the, the whole money part of it, it's, it's not what it's about. I'm all about that growth and that growth isn't in these massive paychecks for speaking to corporations and stuff like that. The growth for me is in that 12 to 15 dollars an hour. When you're out there and it's like 20, you know, 20 degrees and you're freezing your ass off

and you're thinking, you know what? I don't need to be here anymore. And you start questioning yourself while you're here. And there's a lot of growth in that. Why did you decide to release another book? What was undone with the first one? Well, the first one was basically a bachelor's degree with the mind. It's how I look at it. And no one knew who I was. So this is the book. Never finished this book that I wanted to come out

first. But how am I going to get so deep into something with no one else who the hell I am? So first, I have to give you some backstory on who the hell David Goggins is. And credentials. That's it. And so I got some basic credentials out there. And now I can dive in more because most people think I'm just some granite who runs and yells and says, fuck in mother fuck all the time. And that's nowhere near the truth.

That's maybe what they see in a one minute video. And that's what we believe. But there's a lot of thought behind a person being a born loser becoming who I am today. You know, this wake up and just rocky to shit. You got to wake up and think about, you know, there's a process to getting better. And that process is never finished. It's an appropriate title. So one of the things that I've been thinking about is the danger of success making you soft. And this must be something that you've

battled with over the last few years. Right. More money, more attention, more fame, more free things if you want it more opportunities to go places and do stuff with people. Right. How have you dealt with this bottle of success not making you soft? You have to cap it. You have to learn to cap success. So what I do is like right now, I don't like doing podcasts. There's a lot of things I don't do. I have to do now to get the messages out there to help people out. And what I mean by

capping success, I believe everybody should live their life. So everything that someone says in life, take it with a grain of salt, take what they give and don't be like, oh, David Goggin said this or whoever said this. No, do not take what I say and do exactly what I say. So for me, what makes me who I am because my mission is very different than yours or anybody else's. I have to go into a situation where okay, I'm a guy who wants to make people better. For people to get better, I have

to continuously get better myself. For me to do that, I can't just say, oh, I have this resume, the resume is there forever. I'm good. I have to cap my success because for me to help people out, I can't just say I did it once and I'm good. I have to continue to reinvent the will of the mind and figure out more and more ways for you to pull because if I have a cookie cutter message, it may hit five people out of 25. You just failed. My message needs to be in a way where I can hit

all 25 people. It needs to be broad enough to where all 25 people may not like the message, but they're getting something from it. And that is evolution. You must continue to evolve and you don't evolve for me in my job unless I cap myself somewhere. It's okay. You made this much money, get back to fucking work. It's time to get back to work. Stop hearing yourself talk, get off the podcast. Don't be on social media too much. Cut out all the fucking noise, get back to the

fucking mental lab because that's where the knowledge came from. So for me, I must cap myself so I can come back with better, more unique knowledge versus the cookie cutter knowledge that's out there. That's why people buy the books I have because it's not cookie cutter. It's real knowledge. The other thing now is when you first started, you were a lone ranger. Nobody really knew who you were outside of some obscure endurance places and half-heard truths of these weird myths. But now

you've got people's expectations layered on top as well. So not only have you got to deal with success potentially making you soft, so you've got to cap that. You've got to say no to more money and opportunities and cool people. You've also got this extra layer of expectation that's coming through from other people too. And I think that you talk about train humility in the new book too. I've got to presume that that fits into this equation. Right. It fits in big time. That's one

big reason I do fight fire because all the knowledge for myself comes from that place. It doesn't come from the place of success. My knowledge does not come from the place. Because for me, I built goggins from the ground up. I was born David Goggins. David Goggins wasn't good enough. He was a scared, bullied, abused kid who struggled in life. And that kid, whenever something got tough, you know how hard I trained. You know how ready I was. Whenever something got tough for me,

David Goggins, the real David Goggins would come out and he would quit. So I realized this over a pretty time. So I had to build Goggins. And in that process, I have to go back to that mental lab. And that mental lab is at scratch. That mental lab isn't that trained humility. And so that's where I get better. I get better when I'm digging holes in the ground when I'm waking up early, knowing I don't have to do these things. That's where I get better. So it's important to stay hungry.

It's important to stay hungry, but it's important more to stay humble within that hunger. So while you're hungry, a lot of people are hungry, but humility is everything. What was that story about William Crawford, the janitor? Yeah. So this guy won the Medal of Honor. So he won the Medal of Honor and which is the highest award in the military. And this guy went to the Air Force Academy. And he was a janitor. And no one knew who the fuck this man was. He had the highest award

in all the military for heroics. For heroics, saving lives, putting his life in a line, could have been killed. And he is now basically cleaning shitters for young kids. And we can all imagine how that probably went. There's probably some little bit of taunting here in there. And he is sacked in and clean the shitter. So that's why he's in my trained humility part because for this man to be at the level he was and have that kind of humility to go,

I'm a Medal of Honor winner, but I'm going to put that in my closet. And I'm going to pick up my broom and dust pan. And I'm going to pick up this rag and clean this shit for these young men. That right there is amazing for me, man. That's where you grow. That's growth, huge growth. And also it shows that he was doing his job. He was a servant. He didn't look himself any better than anybody else. The second you do that, you totally lost. You cannot

look at yourself like people with me, even. I always look at people. I know where you are. I know where because I've been there. That's why I helped so many people out. I've never been above you. I've always pretty much been beneath you in that shaman always came from. So I know how to reach those people who are in the dungeon because I've been there so many times. Speaking of getting too soft, did you see that there was a new story that came out recently

about the treatment of seals during the selection process? Do you see this? Yeah, I saw it. Yeah, they were getting sprayed with tear gas whilst they were on the ground. And they were made to sing Happy Birthday so that they couldn't hold their breath while it was happening. And there was a quote from this guy, I think this type of training is really senseless said Sven Yort, a Duke University associate professor who studies tear gas and its effects. It looks more like a

form of hazing. Right. I see all that. Trust me. Like I said, you know, I'm not going to sugarcoat anything. I understand that guy. I understand exactly where you're coming from. That is your personal opinion and I totally get that. But there's very few people in this world who want to do a job like that. And it takes a different kind of mindset. Is it tear gas appropriate? I don't know. How hard that training is. I don't expect anybody to understand it. But 1%. But the loud voices

of this world are the 99% who don't understand exactly what you have to do. That's why when I speak and you understand me, it's probably a good thing because that probably means I'm in an area of life that you're not in, which is fine. That's why I don't judge people. And this guy right here judging that unless you've been there and done that and you really can't speak about it unless you're in

those situations that are so hard that takes a special human being to get through them. I think it's the same kind of feeling that I get when I heard about Elon Musk telling the employees at Twitter, we're going to ask you to work hard and you've ever worked in your life. This is a place. Twitter is now a company where people can go if they want to be in the top 0.001% of hard working programmers and software developers on the planet. And there was everybody was up in arms. This

is unbelievable. We're going back to this old version of capitalism where the worker is being abused and used and thrown away. What they didn't account for is that there is a non-insignificant cohort of people for whom that's their dream. That's right. People who want to be able to get up on a morning, having gone to bed four hours before and contribute to some sort of progress that they think this is what I'm here for. And it's the same with the seals. If you're not the sort of

person that is built to go through selection, it's speaking a different language. That's it. And that's why I don't try to convince people otherwise. I understand that why you're confused. I understand why you say things like that. I'm not saying anything bad about that. I understand it. But also what you don't understand, what you fail to understand, is the other side that you need people like that. You need the Elon Musk's. You need the David Goggins. You need some

of these Navy seals, some of these other people. You need those people. And they don't, they forget that. And it takes a very, very unique person and unique mind to do some of these jobs that are necessary in this world. But especially when we're thinking about someone going to war, do you want your armed forces to be underprepared for the battlefield because you didn't want to be too mean to them in advance? That's the problem. That's the problem. And that's the problem that I've always had.

I've always had is that right there is that with even even some of the most trained people in the world fall back on that. It's easy to talk about. Like I said, when you go through it once, it's a perishable skill. Hardness, mental hardening, mental toughness, it's a perishable skill. Just because you went through some training once and you got through it, doesn't mean it lasts fucking forever. And that's where most people hated me in my life because I

realized that. You don't just say, oh, I got it. I'm checked off. I'm good for estimate life. That's why you got to recall. You recall and fucking everything. And you definitely must recall when it comes to the mind. That is one of the biggest recall occasions you must have. And when you have that level, you got to recall every fucking day, not once a year. One of the other things that you did to stop yourself from getting soft was running the Moab 240. Yep. Talked me through that experience.

So I hadn't run 100 My Race. And I think it was about six years. You know, had some heart surgeries. I had some maybe some questioning in my mind about I call it part time savage. I started kind of going through this. I started getting a little bit injuries, a little bit of this little bit. Things that back in the day never slowed me down. So when I got my head on my ass and realized that a we have more left, we can still push harder. We're not there yet. I realized talking to

got him Cameron Haynes, you this race 240 mile race. And I'll say I go, is this the is this the new level? Is this the new is this the new push? So when I decided to do that race, it wasn't the back of my mind like man, I've really become an expert at running 100 mile races. So for me, this was the new level, the 200 plus mile race. And what was so amazing about that as you probably read in the book, I had a hard time the first time doing it. I came back into better, but

what's amazing about the human mind is that it becomes your new norm. Like to think that I can run 200 miles, 240 miles, and that becomes like running 50. I never thought that was possible. This is why I'm always pushing that limit because I know that with in pushing these limits, there's always more. So I ended up doing like almost like back to back 200 mile runs. When the 200 mile race, 240 mile races, hard at once, it became something that was very easy after I figured it out. So

that's why that happened. We got lost on the first one. Oh yeah. And then you went to bed and woke up halfway through the night and nudged, kish and said, how long have we got left until the end of the race? But because you hadn't completed the official route, you couldn't go across the official finish line. Yeah. So you ring your race like paces, some of whom had gone home. Yeah.

What like what what do you think it's so three in the morning and you're ringing people saying, you know, that race that we just finished because of health problems, we go back and finish it. So the crazy thing about that and that's not so I got lost the first time. I got seriously sick was off course. So basically I bed down about 12 hours. Then I got back into race. So I was still part of the official race now. Okay. So the first time I got lost, I got sick got got lost.

Got back in the race after 12 hours of being out of the race. So now I get to about 200 some of my miles and I'm sick as hell can't breathe. How to pulmonary Dima totally jacked up. And now the doctor tells me if you get off course now and you go to the doctor, you won't be going to come back and finish the race. So I'm going to make a call like you know what I'm pretty messed up. Got off. So this is where you're talking about I'm literally laying in bed. And I'm feeling

better. And I thought honestly I swear to God I thought that someone was speaking to me. I thought it was Jennifer. It was like you're not done yet motherfucker. And I'm like what the fuck is this? It was actually probably my subconscious saying get your ass back out there. So I wait Jennifer up. I'm like, Hey, how much time do we have into the cutoff? I know that I'm already you know DNF. So man, what happens here? I'm not going to be an official finish of this race. This isn't for glory.

No, this is now for the fact that you can. So you can sit here and not and think about that for a whole year and you come back here and do this or you can go out there for yourself and take some some kind of pride in knowing that you could and you did. So basically I wake her up. How much time left? She goes something like, I don't know what it was. What would you say with time was? Like you know whatever. And half my crew had left and there's two people there. I woke them up.

They were giving me a gallon of plain. I said, Look, can you guys help me out? I have 40 miles to go. I'm going to have Jennifer drop me back off at the spot where I left. That one finishes fucking race. And I couldn't cross the finish line because I wasn't an official finisher. So I ended up finishing on a road on, you know, by a telephone pole. That was my official finish in it being like 250 mile, 255 miles, but it's one of the best races of all time because we're going through it fast. But

all the fucking times that I was like, this is like, I'm not going back. I went back. I'm not going back and I went back. I'm not going back and I went back. It showed me even more of what we have as as humans. If we're willing to go there and we're willing to push that extra step. And like I say, you know, I always tell people, I'll be like, man, how do you do what you do? And then a day I asked myself one question, can I take one more step? And usually the answer is yes. So if you can answer

that question and not take another step, that is real failure. That is real quitting. So a lot of people can take one more step and they choose not to. I don't know if you can take two steps. You get to answer that question. You have to take the first step. But I can always take one more step. So if I choose not to, that's on me. And I got to live with that. Does that link in with the one second decision? Yes. Yes. So the one second decision is I had to live through that one second

decision several times during this race. So this race took me a hundred and some hours. Okay. And this is what people don't get. For you to finish that race, even though I DNF, I still finished in the time. So there's a lot of pride in that. If you're a hundred and some hours, let me use hell week. This is a perfect example. Hell week is a hundred thirty hours. And a hundred thirty hours is a lot of seconds. A lot of fucking seconds. And if you lose, let's say you win every second,

but one you lost. It only takes one second for you to lose the whole thing. So the one second decision is just that you're in a situation where life is sucking. Let's say you're in extreme cold water and your life is flashing before your eyes. Every time that wave goes over your head, your thought process is I got to get the fuck out of this water. And you're in hell week. And you're hour one of a hundred and thirty fucking hours. It's all fun and games. Okay. Because

at the beginning of hell week, the guns are going off. It's like a pep rally. So you're fucking hyped up. And your boys are linked arms and you're getting sprayed. It's like a fucking pep rally. This structure young as your bombs are going off. Concussion grenades. Blanks from in sixties. Yeah, who y'all fuck yeah. Fuck yeah. Yeah. Mother fucker. Yeah. But then what they do is they shut that shit off. They shut it off. All that who y'all are that hype. It gets real quiet. And they march

you out to that surf zone for something called surf torture. And it's that water that specific ocean is cold as shit. So no more pep rally. You're now in your head. You're linked arms with, you know, your brothers beside you. You don't know if they could be there long or not. You don't care. You think about yourself. You lay back in that first wave. Hit you. Your mind goes straight from hour two all the way to hour 130. You can't process five days of this shit. You're now in

you're now in a fuck you like I gotta get out of here. You're in fight or flight. It's cold. I can't be cold this long. And then this is what that one second decision comes in. You forgot every reason why you wanted to be there. You don't care about seals. You don't care about any of this. You don't care about fighting for your country. You don't care about that. God. Go tried it. That depend on your child. You're about to be that shit no more. All you want to do is go back home. You want the

warmth. You may want something to eat. You want your girl to hold you. All those things have come for the day and that one second. And this is where people lose. So what I do in that one second because we all think about quitman. Shit's hard. But what you have to do in that one second is hard to process information during pain. Because that pain takes over and you can't think rationally. You're thinking about fight or flight. Save yourself. That's not a rational thought. It's not a

thought that's going to get you through hard times. Most people fail that one second. So what happens what I do in that one second is in there's a bigger process to all this. But in that one second I physically stayed in that water. Because if I get out of the water I quit. So I physically stay in the water. But mentally I'm on the fucking beach with the fucking instructors. And the instructors is cold outside. So they got these parkers on. They got their couple fucking Joe. And

they're warm because they've already been through it. So now it's your turn to go through it. So mainly I get back with them. I'm still in the water physically. But mainly I'm back with them. Chill. I got my parker on. And now I'm thinking logically because I'm warm now. Mentally I'm warm. I've taken that one second. That's not quit yet, guys. That's fucking think about your options. Where are you going to end up if you quit this

shit? Where are you going to go? Where are you going to say to yourself? Because you know you're going to get warm. The second you get on this water you can take a shower and you can be warm. And you could be in five days you could be out. So I start thinking logically. I calm my brain down because your brain wants to get the fuck out. Bring the bill push you how many times I get warm and then you're really fucked. And these are the things you have to think about the one second

decision. So that's all about it's about gaining control of your mind. Putting things back in the proper perspective. And then saying I really do want to be here. And I'm going to have a bunch of these one seconds through this 130 hour journey. And I have to learn to control these because if I fail one of these one seconds I will not be a seal. I will not be a doctor. I will not be a lawyer. I will not be whatever the fuck it is. So that's how important that one second decision is. It's

all about your mind tastes control of you. You have to say fuck you. I run this motherfucker. And that's what that's all about. Projecting yourself forward to see what are the consequences of failing? What are the consequences of stopping? Yep. Is about as powerful of a motivation strategy as I can think of. You know, because what you're doing is you're trying to optimize right now to stop the discomfort. That's right. But what you're going to pay for that in is shame and guilt

and regret long term. So what you need to be able to do is bundle all of that up that is as yet unfelt but will last for way way way longer. You know, the future is much longer than now. The future is going to extend out up until the day that you die. And the now is just for now. And even 130 hours is just 130 hours. That's right. And you get to look back and do you look back with pride and glory? Or do you look back with shame and guilt? That's it. That's that's the one

second. You just summarized it right there. And most people failed those one seconds. And then that one second leads to 20 years, 30 years, 40 years of fuck. I have people who have been through training with me, Ranger School, seal training, Air Force training. And I get calls from them today. And they have great lives. And all they talk about is how they failed in that one moment. And they can't even great. They can't even enjoy their life now. Because they're now warm.

They're now warm. There's no more suffering. There's no more suffering for me either. And we're in the same boat now. But you're suffering. And I would show we're not suffering. But you're thinking about what you could have been. I am exactly what I should have been. And that's where people start to lose it. Because now I realize that in that one second. I go through all that. I know how it's going to feel. Because I failed so many times before.

Failure is the ultimate thing, man. I failed so many times before. That's why I don't look at failure anymore. It's failure. I look at my first, second, and third attempt. So that's what that's all about, man. Well, I mean, you went back to go and do Moab again the second time, which is your second attempt. That's right. How do you bang your knee up? It was pretty bad in between the first and the second one. It was pretty bad way before either one of them. Uh-huh. Yeah. Yeah.

It's been jacked up now for about 20 years. I've seen some nally photos of it recently. It looks yeah. Interesting. Yeah. So all those miles I've run on this thing, it's been a lot of, it's been a lot of gut checks. So you go back, you do Moab a second time. Yep. And then you turn your ass into like a hamburger or something as well. So it's not just the knee, it's the ass as well now. Yeah. So at mile 201, we have a good video of it, matter of fact,

Jennifer is like, there's some people up there. So at, so 201 is a spot where I was really finished in the first Moab. So that was a, um, it was way market checkpoint. Yeah. The second time. So Jennifer is extremely happy right now because I'm there. Yes. And she knows I'm doing well now. I'm doing good. We're going to get through this. And so she's videoing me as I'm coming up this climb on this road. And she goes, there's some people up here who want to meet you. You're doing

so amazing. I said, my ass is fucked up. You need to get the fucking desert in cream. And it's literally for like 20 fucking miles that like people don't get it, man, when you get raw like that, bro, and you're walking because you did the chafing of my ass. It was hamburger meat. And I'm like, so she's all fucking happy and shit. She's and I just look at her and I'm going to put the video up on social media because this is, but she's a fucking trooper, bro. Hang on. So could she was

the leakage? Oh, yeah. That was on the video from behind. So my shorts were absolutely raw dog. Yeah. So when you pull them down, it's just blood. And so she goes in the bathroom because she knows when she's going to see she has a desert in cream. She walks in there and I pull them down and spread them open. And I go put that shit all up in there. So she goes in for the kill. And she's putting this desert in cream all over the fucking place, man. And you know what?

This is a funny thing about it. That's when you know you got a good mother fuck with your man. When you're that raw and you're that fucked up and she's just like nothing. It was like saying, hey, can you like put some lotion on my back before I go lay out? That's how she was in there, man, getting in it. That's it, man. Have you considered that that might be the most traumatic event of all of the things that you've done in your life? What you asked Jennifer to do that day?

No, not at all. She did worse. So that ledville chapter when I talk about after I finished and then the ultra ravelling or unraveling had had begun when I lay down. So that was in the duvet. And you didn't know the word duvet. Yeah, I know what the fuck duvet was. No, no, no, no, no, no duvet blanket, man. Okay. Yeah, enough. Help from the streets. We call blankets. Anything that you wrap up is a fucking blanket. So I'm laying on the duvet and she's all fucking

like about her damn rating. Is that fucking the air being be shit? And I'm like, hey, I'm about to shit because it's not your place. No. Okay, right. Yes, I can see why that scene is is was bad. But once again, like a crime scene. It's yes, it was a crime scene. So you've done all of this stuff, right? You've done the seal selection week three times, strapping the legs up so that you can run a bad water ultra race. The ass burgers, everything. Yes. Of all of the physical

pursuits that you've endured, which has been the most painful. By far, by far, my first 100 maras. By far, this 2019 Moab, the one that I did enough, but still finished, that's up there. But when you are. So I guess you're not prepared to run a hundred miles and you take it for granted. And you didn't do any training at all. And you had the right nutrition and off a whim. Like literally, you like, you know what? I want to raise money for a foundation. That's how that

happened. So I'm just going to the store. You're not. But basically I'm sitting there and the loan survivor incident happened where a bunch of, you know, some seals died. I want to raise money for them. I went to training with most of these guys. So I had the bright idea to raise money. I wasn't going to do a hot dog or hamburger sell. I was going to do something that people would be attracted to. So I googled the world's toughest events. And what comes up is this race called

the bad water 135. And it's a hundred thirty five mile race through death valley in the summertime. Now I had no idea about ultra running. I know what the fuck ultra running was. But when I heard it. So when I saw a hundred and thirty five miles, I automatically assumed it was a stage race where you ran like maybe 10, 15 miles bed down and you got next morning. Did it. So when I call the race director up Chris Cosmin, I'm like, Hey, I would like to do this race to raise money for a foundation.

He goes, have you ever run a hundred miles? And I was like, like in a week or like we're talking about, he goes, no, like in 24 hours because that's what you get. I do the qualify. And I was like, is that even possible? Like I know. Anyway, he goes, no, you can't get in my race. And it's you qualify. And I call him up on a Wednesday. And that Saturday. And I was a body builder at the time. I did cardio 20 minutes a week on the elliptical trainer every Sunday. He goes, yeah, Saturday,

you're in San Diego. Saturday is up 24 hour race where you run around a one mile track for 24 hours. And if you can get a hundred miles, I consider you in my race. So I'll go sign up for this race. And the first 70 miles and doing pretty good. And then I hadn't sat down. I was a hand going to the bathroom. I was eating, I was drinking my own plex and rich crackers. I was eating rich crackers. Elite nutrition. Elite, elite high quality nutrition. So what happens when you're that

ignorant and you go out to do this race and you sit down in the chair, your body's done. So I'm sitting there. And when you sit down for the first time in over 12 hours, your body's now going through some metamorphosis. Like go fucking home, go go to a doctor, get some help. But I'm sitting there and I have this urge to go to the bathroom. And there's a port of party for me that fucking wall. But I can't get up because my blood pressure is all messed up

from my great nutrition that was on. And so I can't stand up. So I look at my ex-wife. And I literally say I'm going to shoot on myself right now. So I sit there and I'm shitting up my back and I'm peeing blood down my leg. And I have 30 miles to go. And I end up finding a way to get through that 30 miles. And when I got done with that race, it's the worst pain I can ever even, I can't even describe the pain of that last 30 miles to anybody. No one, it's very hard.

Whole body, whole body. So when it ended, I'm literally dizzy going up my stairs to get to my house. I'm literally, I have my arms wrapped around her going up the stairs. And every flight of stairs, I got to lay down because I can't stay upright for too long or I'm going to pass out. So I finally get in the house. And I get in the house. I once again on the floor. I'm in the kitchen on the floor just laying there. I finally make it to the bathroom, into the tub. I get

rolled in the tub. And she puts the water on me. I'm just laying there with the water coming on me. And what I pee out looks like Coca-Cola. And I'm laying there in the worst pain of my entire life. I'm shaking. I'm jacked up. And all I can think about was I can't believe what I just done. Because when you get to 70 miles of a race and you felt the way I did, it's to me, it was humanly impossible to even think about going 30 more miles in that shape.

And once you do it, it came over me when that shower hit me. And the reality hit that I just went 101 miles. And that last 31 miles was something that I can't even describe to people. And she's like, we gotta get you to the hospital. So at the time, my mom was seeing this doctor. And he was like, so she's describing it. My mom, I'm going through. She's like, you gotta get to the hospital now. And I just said, just shut up and let me enjoy this pain. I don't want anything

to numb it. I don't want anything right now. Because what I had done was I just, in my mind, and people will take this wrong and take it wrong as you want. I don't really care. I had just climbed a mental wall that was amazing. And I don't want anybody to take that pain away from me at that point. Because that was all confirmation. It seems like I've heard you tell that story a number of times. Amazing. Did that set the tone or the rhythm for what you wanted to try and

achieve and feel again each time that you're pushing further. There's more difficulty. I never wanted to feel it again. I never wanted to feel it again. But what it did was it showed me what is possible. And that's what set the new stage for me. That's when I realized, oh man, I've really been underachieving my entire life. I'm not saying that you get to go to that place because that place is a dangerous, dangerous place that borderline,

rabbit, oh, it wasn't. It was all that. But you don't want to go there. But it taught me what is possible. So from that 19-hour lesson, the biggest lesson I have in my life, it taught me that, okay, I got it. Check. Tell me about this mixed type of hate that you've made. So what started happening is as you get bigger and as you get more successful, you open the door for people to critique every fucking thing you do. And most of the people who

are critiquing you usually aren't where you are. And all their critiquing comes from people who are really at a low level of life, which is sad. But what we do, people who are on the upper level, hearing the haters at lower level, like I said, you'll never meet a haters doing better than you. True statement. I started having fun with it. So I'll go through the comments. While most people

don't go through comments, I go through them intentionally to look for the bad ones. And while I'll block and delete you because the people on my page don't need that negative energy, I'll block and delete you. But I take a snapshot on my phone and I put it in the archive. So what happens is there's days where I'm like, you know what? I really don't want to do this today. And I'm like, oh, hang on. So I started making these mixed tapes with all of these hate messages about people

talking shit. And it became such a source of fuel that it was amazing because I know why you hate me. You hate me because you're probably in the bed right now. You're probably an underachiever. You're probably somebody who doesn't want to do anything with your life. So I make you question everything about yourself. So I'm going to continue making you question yourself by coming out here and being even more successful. So I listen to that while I run, I sometimes play in the house.

And sometimes get someone, Jennifer's fucking nerves. Come sit in the list and send my talk mad shit on a loop about me. And she's like, why do you do this shit? It's half comical. And it's half, it's half inspiring. I'm actually inspired by it. I've heard you say previously that listening to music while you train is cheating. So what you're

telling me is that the silence of your own dark thoughts isn't enough of a soundtrack. And you've had to crowd source insults from the internet, self-nurate it, and then play to yourself while you train. That's it. I do that sometimes. Yes. Yes. Have you got your phone on you right now? I want to hear it. No, I don't travel with my phone. Oh, my phone does not go with me anywhere. Why is that? Once again, man, like right now I'm with you. A lot of times people are in conversations or

they're somewhere else where you may think they're with you, but they're not. That phone is the biggest distraction in the world. When the time, so when it comes time for the phone, I'm on the phone. We're not, I don't use it. I'm all about being present where I'm at. So that's why that phone right now. No, we do have it. It's in your silence. It's off. So I do have my phone right now, but usually I don't take it anywhere. I go. Got you. So while you're listening to the

self-neurated insults of random people on the internet that you don't like. Right. What are you thinking of while you're listening to that while you're working out or while you're walking around the house? How'd that back in the day when I was sometimes getting bullied or in a dark place, how sometimes that would have bothered me, how I would want to clap back. I would want to be on there all day explaining myself to people. And how now I'm in a place now where I can hear

it. And I can actually enjoy it. I can actually know where it's coming from. I've studied it. So I don't just like listen to it and like make fun of it. I actually studied it because I was once that negative person. I was once that person who saw someone successful and didn't see how can I get there. I was like, oh, fuck that. They're probably cheating. They're probably doing this. I was, I was that negative person because I wasn't there. And I didn't want to work to get there.

So these people who hate on people, I've studied them. And I gained a lot of knowledge from them. I gained a lot of knowledge from myself when I was in that dark place. So it's almost like reflecting an older version of you back to yourself. 100%. I had this idea called the reverse role model. So in a lot of places, people might grow up and not have good role models around them. You know, like it would be great if I had someone that was my hero that could tell me how to be ex.

Good in school, well with work, fantastic in relationships, whatever it might be. And a lot of people don't grow up with that. And what I realized was because that was me in part from where I was from. But I realized there was a lot of people that I got to see that were like the sort of person I didn't want to be like. And that was the reverse role model. So I could look around and I could say, I really don't want his relationship with his wife. And I hate the way

that he is using alcohol to get over the problems in his life. He doesn't have any integrity or tell the truth. She is a liar and a backstabber and a gossip. And the thing is that you can actually achieve a lot of success in life by avoiding failure. Like most success in life actually is avoiding failure. Yes, you need to be able to be competent. But first, you need to not get out of the race. That's the one second decision. Right. You need to not lose before you can win. Right.

And the reverse role model is you weaving your way through a selection of people that you don't want to be like. And I think that you can get an awfully long way just by doing that. I did that my entire life. I had the ultimate blueprint by watching my family. I was a youngest kid. So the youngest kid has the total advantage. You know, you make it picked on, you make it bullied everybody. But you sit back in the jacket, what you said, I sat back and watch

my dad. Definitely don't want to do that. My mom, my brother, whoever may be, I sat back and I paid attention to everything around me. And it was the ultimate blueprint to how to live life. How not to live life? How not to live life? Is I watched people do shit? I said, I don't want to be like that. I like what you said about how the criticism that you see from people is coming from a very unique place. I think if you got to see the inner texture of the people who don't like

use existence, you'd feel more pity than anger for the most part. I think you'd pity them. Yes. And that's a realization that's taken a long time for me to come up with because everybody else feels, or to me, always seems like everyone else has got it together. Because I get to see only what you choose to say, only what I'm around you doing that I get to see. Whereas I get to observe my own inefficiency and foibles 10,000 times a second. I get to watch

the texture of my own mind be completely unresponsive and useless. I see every single prideful decision, every single lie that I tell myself every single time I make a promise and don't keep it. But I don't get to see that from everyone. So I'd always presume, because of this asymmetry, that everybody else had it sorted and I didn't. And it also made me think that everybody else's opinion was this perfectly balanced, well researched beautifully. It was, they had

they had me nailed down to a tee. What they were telling me was the truth. They could see something in me that I couldn't. And after a little bit of time and a good bit of building up of self-confidence, I realized that that's not the case. No. I have pity on a lot of people. I do, I used to get angry about it. Like there's this guy. I talked about it on on Rogan, this guy from 176 who went out

there when I became started becoming more famous. He went out there and just tried to destroy me, try to literally destroy me, talked about how, you know, he's totally lied, totally lied, had to get a lawyer against him. I'll kind of shit. And I would get rid of this guy. I had a great, I was going to sue him because he literally tried to destroy my character, my reputation. We're not doing this. Lies is ass off. And I thought to myself, it's about two months into it. I set back

and I started feeling sorry for this guy. Like really sorry for him. I was going to pull a trigger to sue him and I said, I'm not going to sue this guy. I said, for you to be this person who comes on and lies and tries to literally tear it out. Everything I've worked for, you are in a very, very bad place. Coming to find out he was in a very bad mental place. So I get what you're saying. I've learned to study people before I react because there's no successful person in the world

who's in a good headspace that's going to ever attack anyone in that kind of manner. There's always going to be something wrong with them. So you got to always dive a little deeper before you get your feelings hurt. Before you get your feelings hurt by that bully at school or that boss at work, take time. Take that one second to pull back and study them because most people were in good places. They don't they don't care about what you're doing. They don't care about

what you're doing. They don't try to store you. They actually will try to build you up versus destroy who you are as a person. So that's where I'm at now in life is most people who do that doing a very dark, dark place. What do you think most people get wrong about motivation? They think it's a permanent fix. They think it's something that that is are constant. They think that maybe once I get it, I'm going to hold on to it. And that's the

thing about that I was telling you, I always talk about it's nothing is permanent. Nothing is permanent. And a lot of times you have to learn to perform without motivation. You have to learn to perform without purpose. You have to learn to perform a lot of different things. And that's what people think. They think I need to have this motivation to work out, to study, to be better. So if they don't have it, they just don't fucking do it. And that's where you fail.

You have to learn to train your mind well beyond motivation. If you have motivation, that's great. That's some kin lean to the fire. All it takes is a little bit of fucking spark. You can learn a whole four stuff. But motivation, you have to learn to exist without it. You have to learn to be, you have to be your best self when you're least motivated. And that's the tricky part about

all that shit. Motivation is just a word. You have to have these different things in your mind on where you want to go and know that motivation is not going to get me there. Because I'm not going to always be motivated. Jocco said the exact same thing. You said that discipline eats motivation for breakfast. And discipline is good too. But without a clear headspace, there's no discipline. What do you mean? So let's say we have a circuit breaker.

And I'm loading everything up to one fucking circuit. Just load it up. It's going to fucking blow. And once that thing blows, man, the circuit's all fucked up. You got to have each thing plugged into the right spot like a fucking crowded garage. You can't put anything in it. Once your brain is crowded, discipline is great. Motivation is great. But if you can't fit shit in your brain

because it's all fucking clutter with shit, there's no discipline. You may have it sometimes when it fits in that crowded garage of your mind, but you don't have the consistency that you need to have with that discipline. So what are you talking about here? Are you saying doing self work and reflecting on you as an individual? Are you doing therapy? I call my, I call it mental zones. I don't get into much because it would be your all day. But basically is your organizing your mind.

So you can put that discipline. So a lot of people talk about discipline. Okay, great. Why do you fall off the fucking wagon? Why can't I continue with this routine going to the gym being better, waking up early, eating the right foods? It's because maybe it's your kids, maybe it's your wife, maybe it's your job. And it's all just stuffed in your fucking brain. You don't have it can part mineralized and organized in these nice shelves. Like you looking at garage. It's all fucking a

nice organized militant garage. Hey, where are my dumbbells right there? A lot of people whose brain, hey, where's my demos? Let me look, they're fucking throwing shit. They're looking through toes. They're all fucked up. So where am I going to put discipline in that mind? If I can't find other shit, you got to be able to find all these different things in your mind. Oh, I can put discipline right there. I can put consistency right there. I can put all these things right there

in that spot. So that's what I'm talking about. If your life is not organized and your life being everything around you, because it takes one little fucked up piece of an outside interference to cut your whole mind. Because it's on such a knife edge. That's right. And people don't get that. Your mind has to always be clear. That's why I'm more that's why I meditate two hours every single night. Because I refresh, I reorganize the garage, which is my mind every night. So then disciplines

in there, organization, everything is in this right spot. So when I wake up, I'm ready to go. What does a morning look like for you at the moment? If you got a routine of some kind? Yes, I run every single morning. So that's when you wake up. I'm up about five, five, 30. So every morning starts with a run. And that's because that's the one thing I hate to do more than anything in the world. So that's like my cup of coffee. And I'm all about armor in yourself.

So the second you leave your house, and you second you open your phone, the second you do any of that shit, you are now letting him poison in cancer. So I make sure a lot of things you can't avoid. So as I get up, I start to armor plate my mind and body. Like a person's going to war. You push your body armor on. That's what I'm doing on that run. I'm waking up and I'm giving myself all this armor. So when I come out in the world, look at that phone. I'm ready. I'm not waking

up late. I'm not rushing around. I'm not disorganized because I know I'm gonna hit in the fucking mouth. There's a there's an art to getting hit in the fucking mouth. And that is why these things are important. You get to wake up and you have to give yourself belief. You have to give yourself confidence. That starts with that run. So after the run, I come home. I eat something small. How long does the run typically at the moment? No, we're under 12 miles. So 12 miles is the minimum.

And what are you getting that done in? How long? It depends. Right now I'm running a heart rate. So I'm joining like 815s, 830s because I'm retraining right now because that zone two for you. Zone two. Yeah. Because of the leg surgery I had. So I'm going back starting from scratch. So anywhere from about an hour 30 to two hours, I'll run every day. So you're fasted on the morning. Yes. Straight out. Straight out. 90 minutes to two hours of running back. Eat. Eat in that

minute gym. So and then after that, um, two, whatever's on the plan for the day. That's how that works every day. Are you still doing your stretching? Because you've got two hours of you've got every night. Two hours of meditation. 90 minutes to two hours of running. How long's the gym session? Depends 45 to an hour and a half. Okay. Stretching meditation. Run. Eat. Gym. Is that my missing Jennifer? Oh yeah. Yeah. Forget about that.

You cycle as well. Yeah. How long you cycle? It just depends. I do stationary bike right now a lot. Uh huh. What are you using? Is it like a walk bike or something similar? Yeah. Something similar. So I put my bike on a like trainer and I cycle. Yep. At least three or four days a week. I'll do that. So that's your day. There's no there's no room for anything else. Yeah, there is a lot of room. So there's 24 hours and I use it all pretty pretty well. How's

you sleep? What's your sleep plan? It's really good. Okay. It is now. Eight hours ish. Something like that. Seven eight hours. Yeah. What you need to with the sort of volume. Seven eight hours. And you're still doing your stretching stuff every night. So you've got a four hour block basically of stretching and meditation. That's all the one block. You combine it to yeah. That's all the one block. Cool. Yep. That's one hell of a day. It is. And it's been like that for

seven years. But going back to what you said before about needing to cap success. You wouldn't be able to fit well even one tenth of that in. Exactly. If you were chasing down. Exactly. Yep. That's exactly it. So if all that's fucked up, that's why I got a cap success because I can't put that in. And that's my growth factor. So you know, that's my human growth factor.

You said before about how you build up self-esteem and confidence and stuff. And there's this quote from one of my friends Alex Homosey that says, you don't become confident by shouting affirmations in the mirror. But by having a stack of undeniable proof that you are who you say you are, outwork yourself doubt. Yes. That's that nailed. Nailed. Completely nailed. Yes. Because a lot of people will and some of these motivational people out here is the funniest thing that

were ordered me. They'll go and say, when you wake up in the morning, pound your chest. You know, fucking looks yourself in the mirror and do all this fucking bullshit. I hope it works. What works for me is that every day resume, the things I know of or compensate, the things I know have done, real hard work, the real calluses on my mind, the real calluses on my hands. That's it. That you don't need to pound your chest in the mirror and fucking anymore if you have that.

It seems like, especially with confidence, right, or self-esteem, there's a relationship between confidence and competence. So what you're looking to do is try and have what you believe that you can do be ahead of what you can do. You're not looking for it to be delusional. You don't want it to be able to believe that you can do something like fly, right? But you need to have a relationship between the two. But what people are asking for is for their confidence to be so far ahead of

their competence that without having even been competent at anything in the beginning. And that's just delusion. That's fantasy. Right. Well, I believe that you need to build belief. Believe. Belief is like, there's an after-school special belief where the mom says, believe in yourself. And that's all great. But there's also a built belief. And the built belief is one where you are constantly like for me, I came from a bad place. How I build belief is through the

the daunting tasks I put myself through. So that's proof positive that I can. So it correlates. And that's how this piece of shit kid I once thought I was built belief. I say, hmm, I was in three hell weeks. I went to Ranger School. I tried out for Delta Selection. Undeniable stack of proof. That is proof, mother fucker. So whenever you think, whenever you think you can't, confidence comes from the thing that you built. You must build belief. You must build

confidence. It came like, hey, I'm going to knock that shit out. You gotta look over here and say, I can knock that shit out. It's belief in it's built on what you put in to yourself. Another friend sent me a message this morning knowing that we had this big thing that we been working towards for a long time today. He said, uh, Nietzsche said, I know of no better life purpose than to perish and attempting the great and impossible. The fact that something seems

impossible shouldn't be a reason to not pursue it. That's exactly what makes it worth pursuing. Where would the courage and greatness be if success was certain? And there was no risk. The only true failure is shrinking away from life's challenges. No, that one also. Two for two. No, that one also, man. Yeah, it's that dealing with laziness and self-doubt thing. I think.

And I do wonder how many people use the look in the mirror, pound the chest, stare into your eyes, say your affirmations, don't get the results and then lose confidence. Well, that's part of it. A lot of it is limit to horizons. Limit to horizons are like, I use me as an example always. I came from a small town in Indiana where there was a handful of black families and a lot of people in that town, when you come from a town of 8,000 people,

it's like we had a local plant. Great day. You know what? I want to work at great day and get a house next to my mom. That's what you know. So many of us come from these small places in our mind that we're not willing to think outside of only what we've seen. Our mind works in such a small compartment. And one thing I was able to do was to dream. Many people, but don't make dreams, you're fucking master.

But I was able to dream outside those fucking four walls of that small town. And until you're able to really put yourself into that dream, but don't make dreams your master, that's where you truly become, which your destiny become. What do you mean don't make dreams your master? A lot of people sit back and they dream about being a sports figure or dream about being a seal or dream about being an astronaut. And all it is is a motherfucking dream. They don't put the work behind the dream.

That dream has become their fucking master. When you become the master of your fucking dream, is when you say, I want to go be a Navy seal and you say, okay, I'm going to lose 106 pounds less than three fucking months. The dream was the one thing I thought about and the dream was now gone. Now what comes in the dream goes away in the fucking laundry list of fucking details and tasks come up. God do this, God do this, God do this, God do this, God do this. That's when you become the master

of your dream. So a lot of people out there dreaming. Ryan Holiday says talking about the thing and doing the thing, vie for the same resources, allocate yours appropriately. Sit, sit. That's the way it works as well. That's the way that the brain works. You can actually get these cakes of dopamine by telling your friends about I'm going to be a Navy seal. I'm going to start my training next week. It's going to be great. I'm going to feel like this feels good. It feels good

to talk about that shit, man. It actually makes you feel good, makes you feel proud. All that shit. But guess what happens? That long clock goes off at 4 a.m. to train. I don't want to be a seal today. I don't want to be whatever today. I'll start tomorrow. And that's the usual pattern of people's lives. That's why I talk about clearing out the mind. Until you really want to do something, you're always going to be a talker. You always get run your fucking mouth.

So again, with the audio version of this book, you've done podcasts in between each chapter, where you're recapping what's just happened. And this time you brought guests, one of which was your mother. And you spend a 35-minute conversation sitting down with her and talking about the experiences that she had with your father and reflecting on that. A lot of stuff you'd elected to leave out

of the first book. So that means there's been a journey that you've gone through to get to the stage where both you and her and collaboratively, you felt okay, sharing that publicly. What's that process like? Because your mum didn't ask for this. I mean, you kind of also did you put a book out there because you thought it was useful and now millions and millions of people know about you. But the gravity field of your notarite is starting to bring other people in as well.

So what was the journey of getting to that stage like? Well, it wasn't so much me. I had already laid out a lot of shit about me that was pretty embarrassing and can't hurt me. So for her, that actually helped her out. She said, wow, if you had the courage to go out there and tell people all your shit, you know, and so that process was, it took about four years of me working with my mum because, you know, she was very damaged by what she went through. And so was I. But I knew

no one was coming to save me. So I had to go ahead and fix my shit. And she kind of lived in a different place. But when I wrote, can't hurt me, it started waking her up. That, hey, man, why do you care? Why do you care so much when people think about you, which you went through? Why are you putting so much so much on other people? And what they may say about you, like there's some stuff I talk about, you know, that is pretty embarrassing for some people.

But she got to a partner life where she was able to, you know, stop caring because we all have our shit. No one like people, it's so funny to me. There be people who are out here commenting about people who are fucking up out here. Famous people are fucking up. And I don't know how they're able to do that when I guarantee while your skeletons are not being out there. If I were to open up your fucking door, mother fucker, how, how, how are you doing that?

So I know that about everybody, like people love to talk shit about somebody and keep themselves out of it. And so we went through that journey together. And so it allowed her to come on and say, yeah, fuck it. You know, I'm a big person who I want to get people to confidence to walk in a room of a million people and none of them like you. And you just like say, fuck you. I'm good. And walk out with you by yourself. You helped your mom do that as well. And now she can look at

everybody and say, yeah, I fucking married a mother fucker that choked a woman to death. I was in a bad place. I'm good with that. One of the days that you focus on a good bit in that conversation is the day that she decided to leave your father and take you and your brother with her. Was there anything that you learned about upon reflection where both of your experiences opened up a new realization to you? That was a hard time for her. And for me also, I was ready to

leave a long time ago. I was just waiting for her to get the courage to finally leave them. And I don't think anything from that really, I think that's where the damage really began. I think for her, when she left, it almost her fight went away. And it's kind of like when you run 100 miles, when you sit down, your body can then say, exactly what I was thinking. I'm done. Exactly what I was thinking. The second she left, that the mind said, oh my god, like we can,

we can be human. It's like PTSD. Yes. We can be human. And we're not fighting anymore. And it just swarmed the demons that all that fight and all that shit was cheaping away. It just came in a swal, it swore her whole and also swallowed me whole. But once again, like we're talking about, I got a chance to watch her. And she set out the ultimate blueprint on how not to be. So at a hard time learning growing up, but I was very smart when it came to human beings. A genius, because I lived

in such hell. I was always studying people who cannot trust, who cannot not trust, energy. I got really good with energy. Can I get this person's energy? Good is it bad? So I became a genius on human beings. So I studied people all the time. Study all time. She also talks about considering taking her own life. Oh yeah. Were you aware of that before you started working toward this book? Yeah. So yeah, she talked about that a few times with me behind closed doors.

And I'm surprised she did it. There's a lot of stories that are still on told that she probably will never talk about. And I'll never talk about them until she says it's fine. But yeah, it was it was a bad way. So I give her credit for having this strength to say,

okay, I need to continue on and figure out what's next for me. She says the only reason that she didn't go through with it is because of you and your brother, because she knew that she would be leaving you in the hands of this tyrant that was going to mistreat you even more badly now that she wasn't around to protect you. Yeah. Which is it's beautiful, but it's also kind of a lot of pressure. It feels like a lot of pressure for a child to be the reason for his mother to

to still be there. And it's also a damning conclusion about the state of her life. Right. That the only thing stopping you from taking your own life is these two boys. But it's also beautiful in a way because a lot of people only have one thing. You don't need a lot of things. Sometimes only thing that kept me with that one step forward was one thing. And so that one thing can get you to two things, to three things, to four things. So that was a beautiful thing about that.

Is that now she's 75 and she's retired because of that one thing. How I mean, you're having this conversation with your mum during the production of the audiobook. You're having a conversation which is difficult to have in private with two microphones in front of you, knowing full well that this is going out to millions of people. It's going to be scrutinized. It's going to be listened to. It's going to be reflected on how difficult is it to watch

your mother opening up about an experience which to you was traumatic. And then reopening those wounds in front of you and talking about that for millions of people to hear. Oh, it's hard. It's hard. But it's necessary. Why? To be able to own your trauma, to be able to own everything about you and look it in the eye. Like there's a part in eight mile with Eminem, the very end. When this white boy, you know, fucking trying to make it in the rap world and getting beat down as shit

comes from some trailer part shit. And he's like, how the fuck am I going to win this rap battle? Because my best friend got shot in the foot and this dude slept with my girl and all this shit. So what he does to take all the power from the motherfuckers go rap battle is ass. He's like, I'm going to tell you every motherfucking thing about me. I'm just going to fucking tell you. And that's how I feel about life. And that's how my mom now feels about life.

I'm just going to fucking tell you everything about me. I'm not going to hide. I'm not going to do none this shit. And it's a refreshing feeling. When you can get in front of millions of people, get an audio book and you can go through your shit and lay it out and you walk away. There's no more secrets. There's no more secrets. Like we said, oh, hey, Lance Armstrong, you just dead boys? No, no, no. Yes. Well, I have nothing wrong with Lance Armstrong. Anybody else? Just fucking tell

him on the fuckers, man. And guess what happens to the conversation? It's over. It fucking ends. There's a really telling moment in the book. I think it's my favorite part. And it's not even in this one. It's in the audio book. And it's when it's getting quite difficult with your mom. And you offer her a root out. You ask if she wants to take a break. She says, no, I'm going to keep going. So it seems like she's got a bit of that dog in her as well. Oh, yes, she had to.

Yes, she had to. One thing that when you grow up the way we kind of grew up together, it's how I look at it. When you grow up when she hugs you when she had me at 28 and my brother at 24. So, um, we grew up together and you got to have a dog in you. You have to have a dog in you, man. And so you have to have it like my grandfather called it a stiff upper lip. You better have a stiff upper lip. So, you know, yeah, she has some dog in her. She has some

dog in her. She has to. There's no other way to make it out here. I mean, you can't just always be, you know, head down in the sand. You got to learn to pick yourself up on your own. A lot of times these fights and these battles, you got to be your own fucking coach. You got to be your own motivator. And she had to do that several times in her life. Given all of this trauma that you go through, why would you choose to go back and see this tyrant of a father for one last time?

It was the only way for me to move forward. So, like a lot of times, if your back is hurting, it may not be your fucking back. It may be something else in your bias making your back hurt. For me, I'm like, man, why can't I get past this fucking hurdle? So, like I said, I'm always an examining myself every day. What is it? What is it? Well, it's one thing you have an

exam in yet. And it's going back to the beast, going back to the demon. So when I went back to him, I realized that that was the unsolved mystery was I had to look that man the eye one more time. Like how I studied that that Navy seal talking shit and lion. I got it from this part right here in the book. I went and I didn't see him anymore as this beast. I started doing research on him,

found out that his dad used to beat him really bad. So, my his, his dad would put him in front of a furnace, open the furnace up with the flames coming out and put him right in front of it. Have him bear button naked and he would whip the shit out of him. And the whole idea of that is, if you move, you're going to get burned. So, stay right here and take your fucking beating. So, what happened with him, those demons from his father went to my father and he tried to

transform over to me. I had to understand who my father was. Understand where he came from. Understand why were you so fucking brutal to us? I got my answers. Triced those answers, it made myself better from the answers about him. And so, that's why it was necessary for me to go back. Not, I was looking for an apology. So, then maybe I could just go be a loser and understand that you fucked me up. Why would the apology make you a loser? It would make, no,

it would make me feel vindicated. Justified. Yes. Like, man, you, you did this to me. I can go be a loser now. My failings are okay. This okay. Yep. Because you did this. So, I was looking for that. And when I went there, I realized because this voice in hill is saying, it's not your dad's fault. Now, I'm like, nah, man, because this voice over here always said, it's your dad's fault. This other voice started turning in was loud.

It started getting louder. The more I drove the buff flow was saying, you can get the face a lot of shit, young man. You got a long journey ahead of you because you're going to find out that while your dad did a lot of shit to you, you're going to have to fucking make it on your own. And the voice got louder and louder and louder. And by the time I got to that door and by the time I was leaving that house, instead of me feeling sorry for myself, I started to do live autopsy. To a lot of people

when you die, they figure out why you died. They figure out how you died. In the autopsy, but we never do a live autopsy. They figure out why we're dying, why we are alive. And I was dying. I was living every day, but I was really dead. And so I figured it out. And once I figured it out, I was able to be born. I was able to be reborn. What we see is this pattern of generational trauma, your grandfather to your father, your father to you,

father to son, just being passed on, passed on, passed on. Is this part of your mission to be a circuit breaker to be a dam to stop this trauma from moving forward into the next generation? 100% but with people, I'm trying to build people up. I'm trying to armor their mind. I'm trying to get them to believe because this world we live in is tough. It's tough. It will beat you down. The world in the life they were living is the ultimate competitor. It will try to take you out.

It will find your weakness and it will fucking just hammer you. It's like a personal cause. 100%. So if I can help you, build belief, build confidence to the point where nothing can hurt you because you know exactly who you are. You've faced your demons. You've been able to go on an audio book in your mind. Maybe you didn't write a book or in your mind. You were able to hear all your past traumas. You were able to listen to them. You're able to

fucking say, okay, now I can now talk to people about what I went through. I'm no longer embarrassed. I'm no longer ashamed being ashamed one of the biggest things that killed people nowadays in their minds. Killed them from moving forward. I'm ashamed of myself. Don't ever be ashamed of anything you've done in your life. Face it. Fix it. Make it better. We are humans. But then again, if you always think that we're humans, you will always just be a

human and always make the same fucking mistakes. You must take this knowledge that you learn from all this shit is knowledge. So I'm just trying to give people that strength to go in the archives of your life. Because while you're probably fucked up, it's probably something happened to you in your life. Go through the archives, dig it up, study it, and then use it for yourself. That's the main purpose for me right now. Have you considered what you would be like as a father?

Yeah. I actually have a daughter right now. Yeah. No way. I didn't know. Yeah. Have a daughter right now. But that being said, I'm an open honest person. When you meet people at a young age, so I had a kid at a young age when I was in the worst possible place in my life. So when you're in a bad place, you're not going to meet a kiss. You're going to meet a person

that's very similar to who you are at that time. And then you bring a child in this world. And as you start to move up in this world and get better, and you realize I need to get better, you try to pull that person along with you a lot of times you don't want to come with your going. And it creates a bad environment. So that's what that is right now. Talking about my daughter's

21 years old though. Wow. Yeah. I'm glad to hear that. I think I think that it would be all of the learnings and stuff that you've been through as a father, as a son, as a grand son. It makes sense to me that that would have been something that could have been passed out. So thinking about trauma and stuff that you go through in your past, throughout most of school, for me, I was pretty isolated. Only child, pretty unpopular in school.

And the main issue that I had was it wasn't bullying. It was isolation. I think it was being lonely. And that was primarily what was causing me to be sad throughout school. So I do this interview for the BBC about six months ago. And in it, I talk about, I haven't opened up that much about bullying. I need to do it more. And it is, you know, even from watching you go through opening up about your traumas, it is inspiring. So I do this interview for the BBC.

And I mention a little bit about bullying in school. And so why don't you mention it? I haven't got around to it yet. I maybe still feel like it detracts from the man that I want to be, the masculine man, the respected podcaster, that it somehow undermines me as a person that it makes me weaker, which is obviously what was, you know, part of the bullying's purpose in school to be able to do precisely that. Right. So I do this interview for the BBC. And I mentioned in two paragraphs or something,

but millions of people see this article. And I get back one day and in my Instagram message requests, is this message from a guy and I kind of recognize his name, but not, not fully. And I don't know whether you know, but there's like a character limit in Instagram. And so, and this is five character limit messages long with multiple paragraphs within each of them, right? So I opened it up. And this guy says, hi, Chris, you might not remember me, but we went to school together. I bullied you.

My daughter is four and she's about to go to school. And given that she's about to go to school, me and my wife have been discussing about the kind of child that we want her to be. And that caused me to reflect on my time that I spent in school. I saw, I've been thinking about messaging you for a while, I've been considering talking to you because I really felt like I needed to, because I felt ashamed of the way that I treated you in school. And I needed to tell you.

And then I saw this article from the BBC and I just had to reach out. And I've been sleepless nights, speaking to the wife, tears and all the rest of it. And I just wanted to say that, I'm sorry, I'm very sorry for what I did. I want you to let you know that my daughter is going to be raised in a way that will never treat anybody like that again. I don't expect you to forgive me. I don't even know if you'll see this message. I'm happy to see that you seem to be happy.

But I needed to get it off my chest. Right. I'm like, I'm fucking totally taken aback. Like wasn't prepared for this. I have come back in from the gym or something and I'm sat reading this message like, fucking hell, that's heavy. So I go back through and I think, well, how do I feel about this? How do I feel about this person? How do I feel about my experience? Right. Because it was so formative, right? Shaped so much of the way that I see myself, the way that I see the world. I had

to deprogram so much of the patterns that I'd learned through that time. My desire for validation from other people, my need to be liked, my constant vigilance, my ambient anxiety, that was always looking for what was going on, my concern of being laughed out, my adamant nature that everybody was able to judge something about me that I didn't know about myself. But this guy, he'd like fully, fully opened up to me and I thought, well, you know, it was beautiful.

It was a beautiful message. So I replied to him and I said, hey, man, I very much appreciate you reaching out. I think it's an incredibly brave thing to do. And if me going through what I went through and then the pain and discomfort and such and your subsequent suffering of reflecting on what you did, if that has led to a world in which your daughter will be the sort of person who will behave in a manner that's going to make the world a better place going forward, I think that's

a price that's worth paying. That's awesome. I said, that's a great story. That's a great story. And you're the expert on it. That's why you should talk about bullying. I know. Yeah, you're the expert. And that's why I do it. You know, that's why I become so vulnerable because all that knowledge you gain, because now you are successful. And there's so many people who are getting bullied in so many ways that, you know, you just show them that there's a path.

But the path is really like I talk about studying the bully. That's the path. Studying the bully. Will you have attempted to become a bully? Never. Never. I'm always like I said, like I told you before the start, I want to be a priest. I want to be a priest, you know, and I could you imagine one of those sermons? It'd be sick because I would cuss. Because I would definitely cuss. Praise the Lord, motherfuckers. That's it. I would definitely cuss.

I would definitely cuss, man, because that's that's the world. And there's a lot of people who probably hear this like, oh my god. That's this is oh my god. Let me close my ear. You know, this the world's tough. The world's tough. And when you come up the way I came up, the only way I can fucking describe something sometimes is to say fuck or motherfuck. Because that's how dark this shit was. And I can't make it flurry. I can't make it PG like, oh, I want my kids to like I have

a clean edition of this book. Have you have a non explicit version? Yes, because people like I want my I want my kid to read your book, but you but you cuss so much I can't. I imagine it's about half the size. Yes, it's very small. So so the funny thing about it is like how long are you going to shelter your child from a world that's evil as shit? That's going to come at you. It's going to come at you whether you've been bullied or not, there's going to come a time where it's going to

come at you. And it's going to be a lot worse than fuck or motherfuck. It's going to be a lot worse. And so we are training kids and people to be soft in a world that continuously gets harder. And it doesn't it doesn't correlate like that guy talking about the tear gas with the seals. Is that necessary? I don't know. But what is necessary is you have to build a person that can withstand the pressures of whatever they're going to be dealing with in life. And we don't do that.

I'm not trying to send the messages of run 200 miles. Be the best motherfuck in the world. But be tough. You better have a part about you. That's tough. A part about you that can break down situations and get better and break down situations very quickly within some trauma in your life, some devastation in your life. Because it's going to come. The devastation that trauma is going to come and you can't allow that to become a jersey barrier. It can't be a jersey barrier. It has to

be something that you can maneuver through very quickly and move forward. That takes a lot of toughness. Well, other shows and suffering is going to happen. Right? So the only thing that you can do is have some shows and suffering to prepare for it. It's the only thing you can do. That's only thing you can practice for the unchosen suffering is have chosen suffering. Do something that sucks every day. I had Heubman on the show a few months ago. And he told me about bringing you into his lab

and putting you in VR underwater with sharks. Right. Give me your experience with Heubman. He's great. He knows his stuff. He knows his stuff. Yeah, he's just a he's a very knowledgeable man on what he's doing. What's being in VR with sharks like? It's nothing. No. No. No. Because one thing about me is I did a reality. You put me in VR's VR. It's a fake thing. And I work in reality. I only work in reality. I don't work in fake situations. So that's why I didn't work on me.

You put me in a real ocean. It will sharks. You'll get your real reaction. You put me in a room that I when you walk in the door and you sit down in the chair and you put some shell in your fucking face. I know I'm in a fucking chair. I know I'm in a room. If you get that psych to fuck out, you need to tell you that more than that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Why are you so sensitive?

Why are you so sensitive? Yes. If you are on a high wire because you're afraid of heights, but you're sitting firmly on the fucking ground, you need to study the fact that you're doing something wrong. Don't study the freight of heights. Study why the fuck do I know I'm on the fucking ground in a fucking chair, but I'm afraid of what's on this screen. So I don't allow anything to go beyond the truth. He said that obviously you didn't know this in advance. It could have been the most

life like VR in the history of the world. And apparently it was a group of you guys and someone had to go first. Someone had to go first. You're not that good with water. Not sure how you feel about sharks, but can't imagine you're a fan. And you were just like me, me please. I'm first. Yeah, I'm like, there's everything because why sit back in the back and think about let me watch you go first. You can watch me go first. Is there anything that you'd like to study with

Hubertman? Would there be any like cool tests? Is there anything that you've been thinking about to do with performance or anything like that at the moment? No. You've just got your own mental lab. You're doing everything yourself. Everything I need is in my mental lab. Everything. Because I'm in constant study of myself. That's and I know what needs to be conquered because I'm constantly going through what I don't like when I'm not comfortable with. You know, like I know and only I

can fix these problems because I have to face these problems. So I have a rolling a rolling log on what needs to happen. So I'm really good at being accountable about, okay, you need to be better here. You need to be better here. You need to overcome this, overcome that. And I do a good job of doing that. You talk about performance without a purpose. What's that? So like, for instance, let's say you have no races. Let's say you have no classes, no nothing. You have there's no purpose

in your life. You know, people need to have purpose to get up. They need purpose to perform. You need to get to a point in your life where there's nothing on the docket. There's no 5K. There's no, there's no, I'm going to get into school to be this or that and still perform to the highest level because what people don't get is one day that thing's going to come up. And if you're not constantly performing without purpose, you're not going to be ready when the time

comes. It's this magical thing purpose that we're all looking for. But what's funny about it all is that we need these things to perform. But we don't take a second to realize the purpose is always there. The purpose never leaves us because the very purpose is you. You are always the purpose. There may be another purpose like being a seal or going to college or whatever, but the main purpose in life is you. So if you wake up in the morning and you don't want to do something,

you don't care enough about yourself. And that's what you need to really research is, man, why am I not doing this for myself? Because that is the number one purpose in life is to better oneself. So that's the only purpose I fucking need. So the reason I get up every day, even though there's no race, there's no school, there's nothing in front of me is because I have

pride in myself. But where do you go to? You wake up on a morning, it's cold, it's wet, it's dark, you've got no cartilage in your knee, you've got shitty shorts, whatever it is that's the issue today. Keep talking. You've got these problems, right? I need you to keep talking about what you were just saying. It's warm on the couch. Your Mrs. says stay in bed. It's comfy, it's cozy. You've got work later on. You had an argument last night. You're slightly hungover.

God, I know every motherfucker ain't going to do what I'm going to do. So this is how you level up. That's how you level up. I know there's a whole bunch of people with that right there. That fires me up. That makes me fucking happy with you this said. That brings Jordan my life right there. Why? Because I know there's so many people that have the ability and just refuse to get off that couch, refuse to study a few more. I was refused to go deeper to go further and that's where I gained the

advantage. It's so easy to be great nowadays, my friend, because most people are weak. Most people don't want to go to that extra mile. Most people don't want to find that extra because it sucks. It's miserable. It's lonely. You talk about that you were kind of lonely by yourself. I was the same way and they used to hurt me growing up. Now I fucking thrive in that shit. That's the only place to be. Well, that was one of the things that is so surprising about growing up through difficulty.

You know, loneliness is one example, right? Growing up as a lonely kid. What you realize is a lot of the things that you feared or hated or were embarrassed about as a child end up being the genesis of the things that you're most proud about as an adult. The fact that you can work and thrive in solitude gives you the opportunity to be able to move to America and start a podcast or decide to do a hell week three times in a row or it doesn't matter how long or dark the course is,

you're just going to stay. The fact that you were forced to be vigilant and to assess people, to work out what's going on when you became an adult allows you to detect the vibe and the energy if whoever it is that you're speaking with and know that this person, someone that I want to hang with and this person, somebody that I don't. All of the things, in fact, I would go as far as to say, there's not one thing in my life that I see as a pure advantage that doesn't have a dark side to it

that came about at some other point as well. So one of the reasons that I spent so much time as a kid in my bedroom listening to audio tapes because I didn't have anyone to play with, right? Only child's little bit sort of unpopular. So I'd be in my bedroom listening to audio tapes. We go to the library every two weeks and we take the tapes back and we get new tapes and I bring them and listen to them again. We roll the clock forward 20 years and what's the 2023 version of an audio tape?

It's a podcast. A lot of the things that you love and value in yourself, in adulthood, are the light side of something that you were ashamed, fearful, disgusted by when you were younger. Yeah, I mean, I think that comes from overcoming a lot of people, you know, wonder, how did you become this? How do you become so vulnerable? How are you doing a podcast now when you were this kid? You overcame things, you fought them and now this is what happens. This is on the other

side of overcoming. It becomes, you become very, very powerful when you overcome yourself. All those things you once coward from, you're afraid of when you face them out of eye every day, you know, I become a person that's a great podcast. Let's say that there's someone listening who resonates with what you're talking about, you know, they've been through trauma, they've been through hard times, but they keep breaking promises to themselves and they're struggling to get off the couch and

they're having a pity party. How can they stop feeling sorry for themselves? That's a difficult one because you have to want it. You have to want to be better and it starts off with you have to have pride in yourself. You have to have pride in yourself. You have to have something about you whether it's your last name, whether it's just the smallest thing. You have to be proud of yourself. If you have no pride in yourself, I can't give it to you because you're always going to compromise. You're

always going to fold. Always. I'm very proud of myself. That's why when people said you know where you can do better than can't hurt me. Roger that. We'll fucking see. It's that pride that wakes you up. Now I'm not talking about bad pride. I'm the attention to detail for the human being I want to do. I call this thing like I want to be the standard. I want to be that guy like every place I went in the military, there was this ethos about how this place is, how we're going to live,

how we're going to represent ourselves. And I walked around and I saw that most people didn't live up to that ethos. Like if you go to whatever, whatever company, they had this mission statement on how we want to run our company. I made one for myself on how I want to be. And that is why if people can make up a mission statement in ethos and which they want to live by. And every morning you wake up, you hold yourself accountable to that mission, not a company's own.

Make up your own mission statement. What do you want to be in life? And once you do that now, you can work with somebody to get better. You can work with yourself to get better. But until you know what you want to stand for, you will always just be sitting down. You'll never stand for anything. Once that quote, if you don't stand for something you'll fall for everything. That's it. It's a true statement.

In the book, you talk about Roger that. There being two types of Roger that. I absolutely adore the second type. Received orders given, expect results. That's it. So cool. Above and beyond, more than was expected to the letter. That's Roger that. That is for me, but Roger that means received orders given, expect results. That's right. So fucking dope. That is it. That is it. And when you hear that from somebody who gets it, you know it because you can look in their eyes.

You feel that energy man. It connects immediately. They're out here to get a job done. Roger that. So it started the book or at least it started the audio book. You've got a few different intros. Right. Rogan. Yep. Your mum and the rock. Right. Slightly odd trifecta. But I do think it works. So obviously your time, Rogan's had you on now the third time that you've been on. What have you learned since being friends with him? He's a very singular individual.

You know what one thing about him is that he's made it. He's all about everybody else making it. There's one thing that he believes in is that there's enough food, enough cake for everybody out here to eat. So there's a lot of people in this world who don't want to see you make it because they think you could take a piece of their pie. That motherfucker's like, look dude. Pie for everybody. I got 14 pies, bro. Well, for every motherfucker here. And so he's all about

people making it. And that's something that a lot of us can learn from. That people think, oh, I made it. I'm gonna hold on to it. I'm not gonna help anybody else out. The thing is I don't even know if he was, something tells me you had that philosophy before he'd even made it as he was on the come up. Yeah, I mean, I didn't know him that much back then. But he really is, to me, the Oprah of the modern day. He's the Oprah of the modern day.

Yeah, that guy's just has made so many people known to the world, gotten so many messages out. So yeah. I said I was talking to Andrew Schultz about the same thing. And he said very similar sentiment, especially he's coming from a comedy angle. Right. And if you're going to be championed in comedy, it's super, super difficult. Right. And what he said was that the comedy world is so zero sum like your gig is not my gig. And the fact that you can have someone that just gives

that gift out is very rare. Another friend, his wife does I have a dick medicine. So it's, I'm not really too sure what it is, but she did something to do with like tarot card reading. Okay. And he asked her, he was about to go on Rogan's podcast. So he asked her to do the tarot card readings about Joe, because it might give him a little bit more insight or it just be interesting in general. And the tarot card that she pulls out might not be tarot, be something similar.

The card that she pulled out was older warrior cross-legged satan retreat with his hands like that. This guy that he's got a weapon down next to him. Weapons laid down, transcended the battle. And I was like, holy fuck. I'm not too sure about what's going on with this tarot card reading thing, but that one seems pretty accurate. It's quite perfect for him. Yeah. Yeah. There's something

about raising other people up as you go along. Oh yeah. That you know, as you get a platform, as you have the opportunity to expose other people that are almost all of your time as a podcast, really slip streaming other people who have bigger platforms. And then after a while, you get to the stage where you can be that springboard for others. Right. Some unbelievably talented person that nobody knows about. True statement. There you go. Now the world can know about you.

He's done the best at that. He's the best at that. What about the rock? Have you ever met him? You ever trained with him? Never. Never. We just DMed. And I was like, I'm going to give you a shot in a dark. You know, the guy follows me. He knows about me, whatever. I was like, this guy's so big, man. He didn't get a fuck it. If I was DMed, the man, but didn't like 20 minutes. Hey, man, what's up, brother? It sends me a voice message in DM.

You're following your work, man. Love what you fucking do. Blah, blah, blah, blah. Oh, yeah. No problem, man. I'll hook you up. I'll be more and honor and hook you up. And in the audio book, what people don't know is I left them alone. I was like, Hey, man, thank you. I appreciate it. I want to buy you. Go back to doing the great work that you do. You're so busy. So I went through the audio book. He was like, Hey, brother, you want me to, you know, read what I wrote for

you for the audio book? And I was like, Yeah, that's great. That's how that I did come about. It was actually rock's idea for him to do the blurb. So then I got Joe Rogan and I got my mom to read the blurbs. So that came from him. I wasn't going to put the blurbs in the audio book. But he was like, Hey, man, I got a studio right here. I blasted out, sit it over to you, and we'll get it done. That's a training session that the world wants to see.

I believe so. I believe so. That should be part of the book to a training session between you guys. Talk me through what the next phase of your life has in store. So after this podcast, I probably won't do another one for a very long time. And I did my book came out on the sixth. It's now the 16th. I did my 10 days of the book. And now it's done. And now it's going back to the lab. So now I go back, go back to firefighting, go back to

finding another level of David Goggins. And that's done in quiet areas and finding more of myself, finding these spaces haven't, you know, discovered yet my mind. And I really love that about life. I love mastering self. I love it. I love it. There's nothing more because I know where I came from. And it's amazing that where I came from that person could have died. That very fat, lazy, unfulfilled person. And within that person was this person talking to you. It's very freaky to me.

And a lot of us have these two people that you have greatness way over here. But you decide to live in this space over here because between greatness or between this space here and greatness, there's a lot of fucking work. There's so much space to fill in with work. And we just say, fuck it. I just stay over here in this space. So I like to fucking examine all these spaces. And there's, there's still more, there's still more, still a lot more. Are you aiming to find peace

at any point? Think about this. I love that question. I'm glad you, I'm so glad you asked it. You know a little bit about me. When you've come from that place I talk about to the place that I'm now. It's not the peace you find. It's the peace I find. And I find so much peace in looking back at that young David at your age with white splots on his face and stuttering and hair patches falling out. And I look at him and like, man, there's so much peace

in knowing what I have accomplished and what I've done. So my peace may be different for others. That's why I never critique or never judge anyone. Because I don't know your story where you come from. I found peace years ago, years ago in the battle in the battle you find peace. When you go to war with yourself, you find a lot of peace because you know exactly who you are. And that is where the peace is really found for me. David, you're a spectacular individual. I really,

really appreciate your time. The book is fantastic. Your message is fantastic. I can't wait to see what you do next, even if it takes five years. I appreciate my friend. Thank you. Thank you for having me.