I Tried Everything to Escape My Heartbreak. Only This Worked.

I'm Jonathan Swan. I'm a White House reporter for the New York Times. Our job as reporters is to dig out information that powerful people don't want published. To take you into rooms that you would not otherwise have access to. There's no robot that can go and talk to someone who is in the situation room and find out what was really said. In order to get original

original information that's not public and we actually need journalists to do that. I'm asking you to consider subscribing to the New York Times. Independent journalism is important and without you, we simply can't do it. Hey everyone, it's Anna. Before we start the show, I've got a question about AI. We want to know if AI has changed a relationship in your life in some big way. And we want to know how.

Maybe you and your partner kept having the same fight, so you let AI listen in as a kind of couples therapist. Maybe you discovered a friend's chat history and figured out how they were really feeling about you. Or maybe you needed to impress a girl who you couldn't believe was texting you back, so you used AI to draft up some witty responses, and then you had to meet up for a real-life date.

We're interested in all types of relationships, romantic, friendship, family, work. Tell us how you've encountered AI in your personal life, how it changed a specific relationship, and what you've learned or taken away. Record a voice memo and email it to us at modernlovodcast at nytimes dot com and we might use your story on the show. Again, that's modernlovodcast at nytimes.com. Thanks. We can't wait to hear from you. Now here's today's episode. Love. Did you fall in love like that?

For the love. And I love you more than anything. You're still alive.

From the New York Times, I'm Anna Martin. This is Modern Love. Look, I have tried lots of things to get over a breakup. I've done the classics, I've gotten a new haircut. In my case, I also bleached my hair. I've gone on shopping sprees, I've taken trips. I've eaten entire family-sized bags of salt and vinegar potato chips and had extreme mouth irritation for days after. But my guest today found herself going through a breakup that no haircut or family-sized snack could heal.

Lauren Vans is a TV writer who lives in LA, and when she was seven months pregnant, her marriage fell apart. And then almost by accident, she discovered one of the most unique cures to heartbreak I've ever heard of. Lauren got into escape rooms, like really into them. And somehow, in the process of escaping, she found herself again. That's today on the show. Stay with us. Lauren Bann's Welcome to Modern Love. Thanks for having me.

Lauren, we're here to talk about an unusual cure for heartbreak that you discovered. Before we talk about that, I want to hear what got you there. What was happening in your life? Well, this was back in 2020 and I was married, seven months pregnant with my first child, and my husband and I separated suddenly. The Short story is there was infidelity. The long story is

There are probably things I wasn't noticing about our marriage, issues that I wasn't addressing because it was pretty scary for me to be pregnant for the first time. So I put some blinders on. Um I had noticed he was distant and he seemed unhappy and But when it happened, it truly felt like a shock, the rug getting pulled out from underneath me, just like a full life implosion. Share with me the sort of breaking point of this marriage.

So um it was in December. It was right after Christmas. Um You were seven months pregnant, you said. I was seven months pregnant and I remember we were Going out to dinner at this fancy restaurant, which was part of my Christmas gift, and I was scanning the menu trying to. blot out what I was gonna order as any normal person does. You can't go to a restaurant and be surprised by the No, it's crazy. Like a Historical text or like something you're gonna have a test on, right? Of course.

Exactly. And I was also planning what my husband would order'cause which is maybe why I'm divorced. We didn't talk about that reason. But I was like, What if you got a protein and I got a pasta? I a hundred I'm gonna share. I Do the exact same thing. It's not just for me. It's like, well, this obviously we're splitting to double our food. So here's what I'm gonna get and here's what I'm gonna suggest you get. Anyway, the it keep going. So you're looking at this menu.

I was m very deep into this menu when he told me he had to tell me something and I was like, Does he not want the protein? And then I looked up. and he seemed very upset and he told me that he had cheated on me. It was... clearly, you know, I think looking back, it was his way of kind of imploding our lives because he didn't want it anymore, but at the time, wildly shocking.

He drops this news on you. It's a moment where everything changes. In the days that follow, are you thinking like, let's salvage this thing, or where's your thinking around what this means for your future and your baby?

No, I think at that point it all kind of came flooding in. Like I I realized there was something seriously off between us. Um I had weirdly gotten coffee that morning with my friend Willa and was complaining about how I felt so alone and I didn't know what was going to happen with my marriage and it was so scary. And I remember Willa saying something along the lines of It's so crazy how people need an event to end things. Hello, Willow.

this happened. No. I was like, am I in a mood that seems very blatant foreshadowing. If you were in that writer's room you'd say, Well that's not believable. Ha ha ha. A little on the nose, a little on the nose. And then I got the event and I was I think this is it. I'm understanding that this was like it felt final. To Willa's, you know, point this was the act. How did you explain what was happening to friends or family, or did you explain what was happening?

I did. It was rough. You know, my parents loved him. He was such a nice guy. He was the kind of guy you see and you're like, I should marry that guy. He's super sweet. He's soft spoken. He's smart. He's nerdy. The kind of guy that kind of feels safe, especially to parents. Um You know, I my parents flew in from Minnesota right away to kind of be with me. It really felt the aftermath of this felt like I was in hospice. It was just people taking drinks.

I mean you're la you you're laughing but I you know, I've never been married and I've never been pregnant and I've never been cheated on while married and pregnant. But I will say, of course, I've had my own just complete ruptures with reality and I have been cheated on. And it feels like Yeah, it just it completely destabilized.

And I'm curious if it felt like this for you, but just my sense of who I was. I was like this person who had value and knew it and who could handle things and w was, you know, desirable and and anyway, it just it completely knocked me out of myself. I wonder if that resonates for you at all.

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. I mean I already felt like it was in an alien body because I didn't recognize it in the mirror and you have someone kicking inside of you and I just pregnancy is one of those strange feelings already. And then to have this happen, I was like, I don't even know what my life is. I don't recognize my own life.

And that was my next question is like there's the immediate pain of it. And it really I've had people come in, shuffle in one after another. It is like you're sick because You do feel that way, right? Like I also had a kind of constant barrage of people. But as you were there and in such pain, what were you thinking about in terms of the future, in terms of being a parent, in terms of what that would look like for you?

I was just so terrified. I just I think my nervous system was in complete control and I couldn't regain any sort of hold on it. I would sometimes wake up with a start. at four AM or the middle of the night. You know that feeling sometimes you wake up in a hotel. It was like everything was alien to me. I was in my sister's bed. Her husband had kindly moved into the office. So I was just sleeping with my sister every night and waking up at four AM thinking.

Where in the world am I? What is my life? Um, but I think the hardest moment for me every day was the first wake up in the morning if you manage to fall asleep. There's a split second when you wake up before your body and brain register your circumstances, where there's this glimpse of hope that you're just waking up as yourself and then you realize. what your life is, and it all comes flooding back in and it is so paralyzing.

And you know, I do think any breakup is kind of the great common denominator and you all have the same terrible thoughts that the your smarter version of yourself would say, Well, that's ridiculous. But I'm like sure Albert Einstein when he was broken up with was like, Will I ever love again?

I love thinking about him in that position. And thank you for putting that in. He's like crying. He takes off his little glasses. He's doing that tongue out thing that there's that famous picture of. Well, what were some of these thoughts? that were racing through your mind. All the most cliche thoughts a broke up person could do. Um, you know, will I ever love again?

How will I ever date? How will I have this baby? How will I raise this baby? I couldn't even get into specifics of the future. They were so terrifying to me. I think my parents ended up doing most of The baby prepping for me. I couldn't go to the store and pick out a crib. It just was too much for me. So I told someone else to do it. I'm like, this is obviously going to come at some point. There's A clock on the colour.

You couldn't even think about I mean, it's striking to me too that it's like if you're not feeling capable of choosing a crib To feel capable of bringing a human into the world and feeding it and doing all of the things that humans require. Oh, absolutely. I mean, that's terrifying. It is it is real it is really scary. Yes, yes. And that like compounds the fear. You're like, oh man, I can't do anything right now. And I'm about to have a dependent human life. How am I gonna do it?

We'll be right back. Hey!Hold up! In this life. It's your day. To play to The New York Times. Find out more at nytimes.com slash your world.

Was there anything, besides I guess, sleeping, was there anything you found? That made you feel better. I tried everything. Um, you know Uh friends took me to dinners and movies. And there was some, you know, just hearing a story by a friend of something funny that happened to them, maybe a small breath of relief. But I think I cried in about every restaurant bathroom in Los Angeles. They should give you an award for that piece.

They should, they should, at least a free dessert. They did not. They did. Oh my god, the pregnant crying. I mean i yeah, it it is listen, I'm only laughing in recognition because we it is like a it's a thing where you just can't stop it. And at a certain point it's like at least again for me in terms of my breakups which were not

as extreme, I'm like, well, why stop it? I sort of lost my embarrassment about it almost. And that was actually quite productive for me to feel like I could cry in public, right? I got a little mean at some point, which is strange for me because I'm from Minnesota. Sure. Maybe you know we have a reputation for being very nice. And I normally consider myself very nice. Uh-huh. But I remember being in Whole Foods.

Dragged along by my parents or a friend. I think it was my parents. And this sweet older woman who kind of looked like June Squib, but wasn't June Squib, came up to me and touched my back lightly and asked. Like, is it a boy or a girl? And I just looked at her and said, I'm not pregnant. Was so clearly pregnant. She was so flustered. She got tears in her eyes. I'm like, oh God, am I gonna give her a stroke? This is a horrible thing to do. But I like weirdly would get off.

on doing little acts of aggression. Just to be like the world was so mean to me, I'm gonna be mean to this like sweet old woman for no reason. And let's pour one out for her. Like wherever she is, if she's listening. I was pregnant. I was pregnant. Oh my God. You're the best. I'm so sorry. She's so we're sorry. Yes. Cause I immediately went back to therapy. I did all the Los Angeles things one can do when you're going through this.

I did Reiki, did not like it. This woman just kind of hovered above my heart with her hand and made monkey noises. Wait, literally? Literally. And I was like, what are you pulling? She's like, there's a lot of heartbreak here. And I'm like, yeah, obviously. Obviously. I'm a sobbing pregnant lady. Yes. And then she's pulling it out. So there's Reiki in the LA playbook, there's what going on the beach?

do over it. I did, a friend did take me to the beach and I screamed into the water. I mean, normally the playbook for me would be similar to when I was broken up with in New York, which would be going out, drinking a lot of wine and trying to make out with some strangers. So basically that's mine too. Yeah. Yeah. That's mine too. Yeah. But hard to do when you're pregnant. Sure. You know? Sure. You can't drink really. I mean you can, but I didn't. Um and I did join Tinder for a blip.

I was like, I'm gonna be like everyone else just using it for attention. And then the second I got a swipe I Yeah. Picks from the shoulders up, yeah. Yeah full catfishing. Just old pics. Didn't mention I was pregnant or married. Ugh, but you're trying all these things. Nothing is working. Nothing is working.

This Lauren is where escape rooms come into the picture. How did you end up in one of these rooms? So my younger sister came to visit me. I was with my older sister before and she is a scientist. She runs a little more dorky than I do, but no shame I I am dorky in my ways as well. Um and she came and I had been doing a lot of daytime movies, but I found with movies

that I could find any piece of a narrative and make it about myself and feel bad. Like I saw Bad Boys Two and there was this small romance plot and I was like, I can't take this. This is too much. So movies weren't working. Sure. And my sister is a big puzzle fan and she loved doing escape rooms in Atlanta, which is where she lives. And she brought me to an escape room.

How did she even bring this up? This does not feel like on the bevy of normal like hangout options, right? Like, how how did she even bring this up to you? Well, I think the people who were coming in to visit me were tasked. They might be huddling behind my back, tasked with getting me out of the house at least once a day. And with coming up with something to do, because I was making no decisions or offering. I said no to everything.

And so she was like, Hey sis, we're gonna go to an escape room. What was your immediate reaction? I really thought that they were for corporate team building. Yes. To me it's like axe throwing. It's like that only exists for like the corporate retreat of the tech company, right? Exactly. Really?

We're gonna do this some like the thing 3M employees do to bond. I don't wanna do that. Um but I also Didn't have any other ideas, and I weirdly was open to people just taking control of my body and mind. Did he tell you anything about like what type of escape room or do you just roll up to a place and you're surprised? Roll up to a place. It's, I believe it was called 60 Out, was the company.

in like a derelict strip mall on a weird in-between neighborhood, like in between Koreatown and Silver Lake. Cool. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like, oh cool. We're here at ten thirty AM to dumpster dive or whatever we're supposed to be doing. And I'm gonna put you some context clues. Sixty out, you have sixty minutes to get out. Smart. I hadn't thought about that. Oh you had that at an escape room.

Take me next time. Okay. So and and bring me into this. Actually, before we even do this, why don't we zoom out and just talk about how escape rooms work? I have never done this. Can you describe just sort of broadly what an escape room is?

Yes. So the companies themselves call it an immersive interactive experience, which is maybe the most jargony thing you've ever heard of. Sounds like an experience, but yeah. Yes. Basically, you go into a themed room. Think like a cheesy motel that would have different themes to each room. Pirates, undersea, outer space, whatever the theme is. Yeah, I'm excited. And there's like pretty cool set deck. It kind of looks like a a private high school's play. Ha ha ha.

You know, you're like, oh, they spent some money on this. This looks good. And there's a puzzle master, which in my experience is usually a 19 year old boy with kind of long stringy hair and a goatee. And he explains the rules of the game and the story of the room. And then you basically have a task, which is, you know, to free the patriarch of the family or find the hidden treasure.

And there's an escalating series of physical puzzles. Physical. Rearrange these photos on the wall in the right order to make this key pop out. So you're in this themed room solving these puzzles, finding clues for sixty minutes, and there's a big timer on the wall that shows you where you're at and you're trying to solve the last puzzle before the timer. Okay, so this is good to know, this is good to know. So you roll up to sixty out. Mm-hmm.

You walk in, bring me into this first one. What was the mission? My sister had picked a Mount Olympus themed escape room. Cool. I believe the objective was to end there was a war between the Titans and the gods, and we needed to end it and restore Mount Olympus to its place of peaceful. Glory. That makes sense as a mission for you two on like ten thirty on a Monday. Yeah. I think so, yeah. A pregnant lady is the one to do this, not Hercules or anything. It should be

this puzzle master, I assume, given your description, is telling you this. You know, your sister has done these before. This is the first time you're hearing this. Tell me how this is hitting you. Are you like rolling your eyes like this is ridiculous? Or are you feeling like, let's go? I think I was crying as he was going to be.

My sister was nodding avidly at his story. I was already in tears, like trying to stifle them back, thinking about my life. I think the puzzle master was like, What in the hell is going on? I'm gonna close the door gently behind this sobbing pregnant woman. But immediately he closed the door and the clock went on. And I don't know if this is the Tracy flick in me left from being like a studious high school student.

I just like went into gear. I was like, okay, I think we have to do this. Oh, a problem and a countdown clock? Say no more. And something just clicked inside of me and I was like, I have to solve this. This is a problem before me that I can solve. Tell me more about that feeling. Had you felt that way since the divorce? Absolutely not.

Absolutely not. I didn't even realize at the time that I was for the first time not thinking about my circumstances. I didn't even think about the fact I was pregnant. I was just there was a simple puzzle objective in front of me and a countdown clock. And I just focus on the puzzle. And it was such a relief. What's next? We get out on Mount Olympus and then I believe No, yeah, we're just at Mount Olympus. You know how that happens. My sister get off at Mount Olympic.

Yeah. Strip mall in Silver Lake that takes you to Mount Olympus. Um, I believe you went into, I mean, this was six years ago now, but Um, kind of this beautiful heavenly circle with ionic columns that were probably made out of cardboard because it is an escape room. But at some point a trapdoor opens. I know that. That was the one hiccup in this room. I was so into it. And then at minute forty-five, the trapdoor to go underground opened. It was the Minotaurs came. Cool.

And I was like, mm, I feel like I'm pregnant and shouldn't slither through this one. So my sister gets down to do it and I just am kind of waiting her for her to, you know, spelunk to the end of the Minotaurs game. Does she come get you? Like what do you do? No, she came out with there was a key at the end of the Minotaur's cave. As which was the final clue and then we had to unlock the box that would

Bring the peace treaty to Mount Olympus. But during that time when she was slithering around and I had nothing to do but wait. Yeah. Things came flooding back to the city. I was going to ask, was it like that moment upon waking where you kind of r recognized again your circumstance? Yes. Shoot, it happened that fast. Yeah. So she came out of the Minotaur's cave. I mean, it took her about five minutes. She really had to slither. And I was like Hmm. Said again.

But we then solved the escape room. We did it. I think the guy was very impressed with us. When you are there, triumphant with your sister, it bring me into your body and your brain. I mean, it feels like Yeah f you know, quite literally this was an escape for you. How were you feeling? I don't know, in in the moments after in the car ride home.

I was feeling relief, which I really think is the greatest emotion you can have as an adult. Just relief. You know, I think I was able to get out of Nervous system response, just constant dread and the lump in your throat, like the physical symptoms for. At least a good chunk of that escape room were gone. And I think on the way home, she was staying about five more days. Your sister.

My sister, and I said, I would do another one, which is the first time I had offered to do anything in the last six weeks. That's you making a decision. And actually, you know, the escape room is a series of very quick, rapid decisions. I mean, it strikes me that after This period of feeling completely paralyzed, this was a moment where you had to be extremely decisive and you were

Did that mean to you that like you had to do another escape room? Like it felt imperative to do one'cause you'd found this thing or? It I f definitely felt curious about it. Um notice that this was basically the first time besides for sleep when I wasn't thinking about it and thought, you know, I was doing all these things that address the problem head on, like therapy and Reiki and you're talking through it.

And I think for me, I was so scared that I was gonna be incapable of taking care of this human life that was about to come into the world, just feeling capable of A dumb puzzle of putting portraits in order on a wall was such a gratifying feeling. I just hadn't felt capable in any way since it happened. And

It was just proof as, you know, a stitch pillow might say I could do hard things, but I kind of needed that. I just needed that so much, like some validation that that part of my brain still worked. But you could do it. We'll be right back Your sister you do another escape room with your sister, it sounds like. Yes. She eventually leaves though, your entrance into the escape room community. So once she's gone, what's your plan? What do you do?

I start doing them by myself during the day, which is such I can tell you what a crazy sight this is. One, it's just weird to go, I don't know why they have 10 30 AM time slots. It feels early, yeah. It feels a little early. And it is like a group activity one would assume, right? So going alone also feels

So weird. Some of them aren't even possible to do alone. You need someone to stand on this mark while the other person does that. And for those, the puzzle master would just come in and help me. They're literally supposed to be for group bonding. But I found I got better and better at them. Uh-huh. And I found just I could fully.

lose myself in the puzzle. I just was like, got that. I'll put these clues together. And I did not think at all about the future. I could just be in the moment. It was the only thing that brought me to the moment. Give me like a You're you're in the movie, Biz. Give me like the movie montage of you in these escape rooms, you know, first slot, like what are you seeing? What are the sets? What are the puzzles? Who are the people you're meeting? Like, give me that montage if you can.

I did a mafia escape room where at the end the bones of the guy the mafia killed fall out on you. And I was like, oh. Can they do that to a pregnant woman? I do feel like also your pregnancy is something that know. Must be a little scary. Space one where the stakes are you're running out of oxygen, so you have to bring oxygen back. And I was really able to

fall for the stake. So I would get really nervous. Yeah. But I think that was good. My ability to believe it let me really hone in. Yeah. The funniest one I did is I did zombie on a chain, which involves a live actor, just alone. As a pregnant woman. You gotta describe that one. You can't say Zombie on a chain like I know what Zombiana Chain is. So what was happening in Zombiana Chain?

Well, it turns out it's very self descriptive. There's an actor who is a zombie on a chain at one end of the room. And every five minutes that goes by, the chain loosens up about an inch. And if the zombie gets you, the game is over. So it's not just time. It's like if the zombie can reach you and attack you. It's like scary it's like haunted house X escape room type thing. Exactly. And this I was about Eight months pregnant, maybe eight months and a week. Oh my god.

Truly, I scared the live actor more than he scared me. He really was worried about like sending me into labor. So he was like, Like, really not giving in his all. And at one point he was like, You're doing okay. And I'm like, Don't break character, don't break character. I paid for this. This is Yes, he's like uh there's a lawsuit here, I'm not gonna like I paid for this. Oh my god. That's so well did you did you solve it before the zombie on a chain? I did. Are you solving all of these?

I um solving it turns out I'm also good at this. Sounding like it. Like these sound complicated. These sound like difficult. And it seems like You escaped from all of these rooms. Yes. I think there were one or two I didn't make it in time but got close. But even then, it just is such a nice sense of accomplishment. It is meaningless. You're in a totally made up story in a totally made up land. But it feels so good to solve something.

You're talking about how in these moments you feel capable, you feel relief, you feel locked in. I mean you feel this kind of intense focus that allows all things to fall away. I guess I wonder like when it's such a high like that, when it's such relief, is there a come down? Like would you leave these rooms and feel like, oh my God, I gotta go back. To my real life or did real life start to feel a little less Yeah.

It might, it was still terrifying, but I do think it started to feel a little less scary. You know, at the same time, I when I started doing these rooms. I hadn't even planned a nursery. There was nowhere for my baby to sleep. I sent my parents out to buy baby furniture. And then I would go in and I would save, you know. Artemis two from Space Peril. Right. And then come out and I think I went shopping at Mini Crate and Barrel with my mom for a changing table.

You know, it was like I accomplished something there. I got my brain and body used to the feeling of solving things again. And then I was able to translate A little bit. I don't think I could solve my life or figure out what was going to happen to me after the baby came. Or come up with a satisfying plan for the future, but I could take care of things increment by increment into the future. I could plan my baby's room.

now. Huh. That feels really powerful, honestly. Even though you say it's increment by increment. Going to Home Depot with your mom, that does not sound like something you could have done before the escape room. No, it absolutely wasn't. And I think another aspect of it was I was feeling So bad about myself for either ignoring or missing the signs of my marriage, you know, for

not noticing that my husband was so unhappy, for not picking up on the clues. And I always thought I was an observant, intuitive person. And it totally broke my confidence in that notion that going into a room and finding clues for where the pirate's treasure is. made me feel like, okay, I can see things. I mean, maybe I'm less good at the emotional clues, but I can find clear where the treasure is. Yes. Like well No, I mean i that that makes sense to me too. It's like

Yeah, we talked about how these kinds of things just sort of your identity is thrown into question. All these abilities, whatever, like values, things you thought you could do, you can't do anymore. And so it makes sense to me that even this ability to like look really closely would feel like something you were reclaiming almost. Absolutely. Did you like tip them a lot when you left the escape room? I did. Like I would be like, here's$500 or something. You guys are helping me more than you know.

You know, it felt crazy to be earnestly escape rooms really saved my life. But they did. I mean, I turned it into a bit, but they did. Yeah. you mentioned the worst part of your day being waking up and remembering. Was that happening to you less when you started doing escape rooms? On the days I had an escape room booked, yes. I mean, there's still that initial gut punch when you wake up and then

immediately after the gut punch, I'd think, Oh, I have an eleven AM booked. You know, you kind of know what you're gonna do in the immediate future and it lessens The unknown horror of it all. Yeah. And meanwhile, it sounds like you are preparing. Space for the baby. I mean, literally, physically, with the crib and all the stuff. And emotionally, it seems like you're better able to imagine, you know, caring for this. Yes. And of course,

You can't keep doing it. Like you are getting pregnanter and pregnanter by the day. Right. You had to end it at some point. Yes. Do you remember you? Remember a very Close to my due date, my OB was like, okay, so what is the birth plan? Which is Did you tell your Obi about about this? I don't think I'm not sure. Just curious. Okay. Um what is it? They were like, What is the birth plan? She said, she asked. Um

And I had been putting it off because I didn't know. I'm like, I don't know. Do I want to be induced if it doesn't come out? There's all these questions you have to answer. And I had been putting off at answering any questions. And I think I might have done maybe five or six escape rooms when I was like, oh, I think I know what I want to do. Yeah.

And I was like, That is really it's really moving to me actually. Like you'd work five or six escape rooms, that is your measure of time, which I really like. Yes. And so what was the plan that you came up with? You were able to make these decisions. So what was Yeah. I think I didn't want to be um surprised by birth. It was that was too scary. I just had a big surprise in my life that upended my world. So I chose to be induced. We set a date to be induced and

Um, besides for it being the first week of full blown COVID everywhere, I really liked that decision. I was like, I know exactly what's happening to me and I feel in control of the situation. Oh my god, it was COVID though. That's really intense. It was covet, it was so intense. I gave birth in a full blown N ninety five mask. They kicked my sister out after the baby came out. It was really at one point I threw up in my mask and I was like, I need a change. That was really intense. You do this.

With your sister, it sounds like with family present. Is your d ex husband in the picture at all at this time? Right now, no, because you could only bring one person to the hospital and I did not want him. I wanted my sister. Um, but after the baby was born and we got back to my apartment, he came into the picture very soon and came over and was a dad and had spent time. And now we co-parent um fifty percent. fifty fifty. So things are good. You know, he's a very present loving parent.

in that moment. I wanna stay in that moment. You know, I I've heard this from you know, many mothers, my own included, you know, you're handed this you'd said you felt alien, you're handed basically this alien and they're like, Okay, go home and you're like, What? You know, like this is on me now? This is And you'd mentioned being just y you know, it was like incomprehensible to you how you could care for this. Baby, this daughter. You had a daughter, right? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Um, what was the reality of these first days, weeks with her? Did you were you able to make decisions? Did you know what to do? Yeah, I somehow it was wonderful. She came out and it felt like I had the opposite of postpartum depression. It like snapped me back somehow. Really wonderful. I felt ready to handle it. And because it was covet and we were kind of isolated

to our apartment. It I really didn't feel like I was missing out on anything. You know, this is what I would be doing with a baby anyways, kind of hunkering down. And it kind of felt like it had an escape room vibe. Like I'm like we're trapped in a space. together and I'm used to this now. So what's the mission here? Raise an adult that's empathetic and caring and So that one's a little harder. Yes, we get a longer time limit. Thank God.

I wonder if Two, you know, before the escape room discovery, you were nervous about finding romantic connection again. And I wonder how that progressed too. It was all in my head. All of my nerves. I Have dated a couple people, like lovely people, since my divorce. And I'm currently have um a very lovely boyfriend who is also a TV writer, also divorced and We weirdly love to do escape rooms. Don't you even say that? How did you was that like on your profile or whatever if you met online? No. No.

I had to bury it as kind of a joke in an early date, you know, when you're pitching with someone new, you're like, we could see a movie, we could go to this restaurant, we could do an escape room. I like threw it in the middle of a bunch of options. And he was like, I love escape rooms and I was like, Okay, we're masks off now. So we do them maybe one every two weeks, just the two of us. No way. Are you running out of escape rooms in the greater Los Angeles metropolitan area?

They like revamp them every few years, but like we've had to slow our roll because we don't want to run out. I was gonna say that's really often. Yes. A new place. There's a new company that just opened here called Escapology. So we've been like running through theirs. You're like their first and best customer. Yeah. One every two weeks, Mike Wow, what a truly full circle. What does it feel like to do an escape room with like with a romantic Partner.

very good at his okay. He's very like puzzle brained. Okay. Um I thought it was gonna be this grand like wow full circle. Look at me, all these thoughts I had. I'm usually just like slightly annoyed with him now. Ha ha ha. I'm like, give me the book. You're hogging the book. Is he yeah, what's your dynamic in the room? Are you the leader? Is he are you both leaders and that's why it's tough?

Uh we're both leaders. I think that's why it's good we cap it at just us. I think if we added friends in, they would be so annoyed with us. Like he can help himself. The last time we were doing it, I was holding this skull key and he just grabbed it out of my hand and was like, sorry. And then I can't believe I just did that. Like we're just cannot help ourselves. And you're like, we'll talk about it. Yes. And like we will be going to dinner and talking about this later.

Will you bring your daughter to an escape room when she's age program? I have, I just did and the last few months. What? Yeah, we did um a Scooby-Doo themed escape room. It didn't. Продолжение следует... No, it it they said that kids were allowed. Um, I did like it recommended kids eight and above and she's just a very tall six. So I slid her in. And she was a little scared in there. They were playing eerie music and she was plugging her ears and saying, Why is it so spooky?

She didn't do much in terms of clue finding. And I like doing it so much. I'm just like, you can poke at stuff. I'll take care of it. Okay, well now that to me, and sorry that I'm forcing so many full circle moments onto the story that is still, you know, uh continuing, but You were pregnant with Ellie doing these escape rooms, scared for her to come into the world. Yeah. And to be in this creepy Scooby Doo escape room with your daughter. I mean, that must have been quite meaningful.

Yes, it was I mean, part of me had the thought beforehand is, you know, they say if you play classical music to your baby, maybe they'll come out like a musical virtuoso. So I'm like, did she? Seep the knowledge of escaping the room in utero, and now she'll be incredible at it. And the answer is no. She's six. Lauren, she's six. Yeah. She's six. Yeah. Yes, yes. Um but she was so when they opened the door and they were like, Congratulations, you did it, like the

light in her face. She was so happy to feel victorious. And I'm like, oh, she has the same dopamine reward system that I do. So that's good. That was handed down. Lauren, what a delight. Thank you so much for this conversation. Of course, it was so lovely to talk to you. If you ever want to do an escape room, call me. Hãy subscribe cho kênh Ghiền Mì Gõ Để không bỏ Okay, great.

Lauren wrote about escape rooms in the New York Times magazine. If you want to read her story, there's a link in the show notes. The Modern Love team is Davis Land, Elisa Gutierrez, Lynn Levy, Reva. Sarah Curtis. It was edited by the first time. Our mix is a very important thing. Ramirez. Original music in this episode by Powell, Dan also composed our theme music. The Modern Love column is edited by Daniel Jones. Mia Lee is the editor of Modern Love Project.

If you'd like to submit an essay or a tiny love story to the New York Times, we've got the instructions in our show notes. I'm Anna Martin.