Revisiting the Orphan Train: An American Odyssey

Hi, it's Moe. We're off through the new year, but I wanted to share another one of my favorite stories with you before we return with our final episode of the season. It's about the largely forgotten social experiment known as the Orphan Train Movement. From eighteen fifty four to nineteen twenty nine, more than a quarter million abandoned or orphaned children were placed on trains, taking them from East coast cities to the Midwest and beyond to live with

Hi.

My name is Addie Skilman, and this is Loving Versus Virginia, the stepping stone for equality in America.

Every year, at the National History Day Contest, middle and high school kids from across the country gather to compete, presenting on a range of historical topics, therefore turning the times reward to Victory.

Rysler appeal taking a stand against prohibition.

Root sixty sis road possibilities.

What chaplin, Missouri?

Alcoholis?

Let's all so great to get your kids all Rude sixty six.

But the topic that grabbed my attention was one presented by a fifteen year old from Minnesota, Claire Isaacson.

Orphan Train, the compromise that the children on the right trucks.

I'd never heard of the Orphan Train, but from her first line, Claire had me hooked.

Your parents are not your parents, Your past is not your past. Your life begins when you are chosen.

Your life begins when you were chosen, an apt way to describe the Orphan Train, a mostly forgotten nineteenth century movement that rescued abandoned children from the crowded streets of East Coast cities and delivered them by train to new families across the country. In her presentation, Claire channeled real life Orphan Train rider Victoria Moe, a child of Irish immigrants, as she made the trip west.

We cruss our fingers and prayed that we get a loving home. Many older children are scared and tried to run. Our pasts were left behind on that train station. We were going to have a totally different life and our new homes.

I spoke to Claire after her performance, and I'm a little embarrassed that I'd never even heard of this before.

Yeah, I know, it's crazy, and that's why I'm thankful that I did the topics so I can hopefully make more people know about it, because it's really a secret and kind of hidden.

How big was this movement?

Well, a quarter million children removed west from eighteen fifty four to nineteen twenty nine.

A quarter million people. That's like the population of Cleveland. That's a lot of people. As I dug into our archives at CBS News, more voices began to surface, voices of orphan trained riders from years past, all of them children who had been lifted from dire situations and scattered across the country for hope of a better life.

They sent me out west to Colorado Springs. I went to Wayne County, Michigan.

I had never heard of anything like Kansas.

In this episode, we'll tell you the story of the largest mass migration of children in American history, and I'll travel to Texas to talk to the last known surviving orphan train rider. They took you when you were such a little baby of us.

The Smallest, Small, Smallest one London Home train.

From CBS Sunday Morning, and Simon and Schuster. I'm Morocca and this is mobituaries, This mobid the Orphan Train. May thirty first, nineteen twenty nine, death of an American experiment extra extra. Read all about it the Boston molasses disaster of nineteen nineteen. It's a slow reader. If you happen to be outside Penn Station in New York City last June, you might have seen a familiar face. What else h extract star. I read all about it Warren Harding dead.

Charles Loring Brace, from a young age to his dying day, really tried to be the best he could be for others.

Say, George is the head curator of the National Orphan Train Complex in Concordia, Kansas. And to tell the story of the Orphan Train, you have to tell the story of Charles Laring Brace, who was born in eighteen twenty six into a well to do family in Lichfield's, Connecticut. What was he raised to do?

Yeah?

Well, his father, who was a teacher, thought that Charles would follow in his footsteps, and he thought, okay, Charles is going to be a teacher. And then Charles decides to be a pastor. But then he realizes that you don't have to be a pastor that stands behind a pulpit.

The patrician Charles was going to become a missionary, an idea that greatly concerned his father, because being a pastor, you know, it's kind of nice you get invited over to dinner, you've got a nice place where you live. But I mean, when you're a missionary, it's you're kind of rolling up your sleeves and getting out there.

He truly jumped into the depths that were being ignored.

In the eighteen fifties, mass immigration from Europe, mostly Irish and German Catholics, overwhelmed New York City. Poor sanitation and wild pigs roaming the streets spread diseases like cholera and tuberculosis. Non Existent labor laws meant unsustainable wages and unsafe working conditions. And while the wretched state of affairs touched people of all ages, children felt the effects hardest.

There was in fantaside happening in New York, where these kids were actually literally dying in the streets, in the gutters. These babies were tossed out of homes.

Renee Wendinger has written several books about the orphan train movement. She has a personal connection to the subject. Her mother's Sophia was a rider. Have you ever wondered what would have happened to your mother. Had she stayed in New York.

I don't think in that timeframe she would have survived.

Charles Loring Brace was determined to help remember the newsiaes. He created lodging houses for them, but there were far more children in need than there were jobs for newsboys. Give me a sense of the scale of the problem.

At one point they say ten thousand kids are on the street. At another turn, it's thirty.

Thousand, thirty thousand homeless children at a time when New York had fewer than six hundred thousand people total. Charles Loring Brace saw all this firsthand.

Is eighteen fifty three. In the February of that year. He starts going out into the streets and quickly realizes that we're spending more money imprisoning children because you could be arrested for being a vagrant child, and he wants to help.

Now.

Orphanages existed back then, but they were overcrowded, and so called poorhouses put children and adults together, a dangerous situation for kids. So maybe it was best to get them out of New York altogether.

He really believed in the idea of getting kids out of the city and out of.

Vice, vice seems like the perfect word what he sees going on in the cities of these kids. He just sees it as kind of a cauldron of sinfulness, basically.

But he really doesn't see a way for children to grow up and not be touched by it, not be drawn into it, to live in an orphanage and then be let out at eighteen and not fall into a prison.

So Brace comes up with a plan to move children en mass to a place where they'll stand a better chance. Put simply, Charles Loving Brace says, we're going to put some kids on a train.

Yeah.

In eighteen fifty three, Brace founds the Children's Aid Society to help carry out his grand play. First, he needs to find people willing to take in abandoned children.

He basically selects a community where he knows someone. They're going to go through that church and require that people who apply for them bring two references from their pastor and from their courthouse, and they're going to place them out under the guardianship of the Children's Aid Society.

Why is he confident that they're even going to be placed I.

Think he truly believed that people weren't going to come to New York and take kids out of orphanages. But if he brought them to them, put them in their face, there was no way they could say no. And so he took a chance.

Brace makes a deal with a pastor he knows in the small town of Dowagiac, Michigan, and the Children's Aid Society begins to gather the forty five children who will be the passengers on the first orphan train.

The majority come from the New York Juvenile Asylum, and technically that first train we now know by historical records, is paid for in half by children they had studied your jubil asylum.

Were any of the kids coerced, pressured or is this something that they all wanted?

It's seemingly like they wanted it, But of course what's the alternative.

Now?

Orphan train is a slight misnomer. It takes multiple trains and boats to get from New York City to Michigan. For many of these children, it's their first time ever leaving New York City.

How scary that must have been on the choppy water and the cliffs and how many trees there are.

For these kids, it must have been like going to another planet. Oh, absolutely, a memory of This kind of crossing even made it into Claire's Orphan Train performance.

I remember crossing the Hudson River. Oh the wonder that filled our eyes. Oh we had ever seen sorrow and pain? What's the world is supposed for us?

The children arrive into Watchiack in late September eighteen fifty four, and no one, not the children, not their caretaker, not the townspeople, really knows what to expect. So they get off the train into Watchiack, and then what happens.

The kids are so excited. They're finally in Michigan, their final destination, and they take off.

That's right, they run in all directions. Look, they're kids, they've been cooped up on a train for days. Their caretaker can't keep up. He just goes to wait for them at the hotel.

Finally the kids start rolling in and they have stolen everything green apples and pumpkins and acorns, and have shoved grass and leaves up their shirts, up their shirt sleeves, in their hats, down their pants, in their pockets because they're so excited. They've never seen everything where it grows.

And I'm curious, do they know that you're not supposed to steal. Possibly not, And I'm just I'm trying to imagine what the people in the town are thinking.

I bet they're alarmed.

They probably are alarmed. The people of Dowagiac, after all, are scheduled to meet the orphan train riders that day at church. You can imagine that already they're regretting welcoming the orphans to town. But when they get to church, they're greeted with a surprise.

The first thing that they really hear from the kids are Sunday hymns, and they are singing comy centers, poor and needy.

The kids went over the town.

They're placed within a week.

All of them, so this first ride had to be considered a success.

Absolutely.

Two months later, a second train leaves New York and the orphan train movement begins in earnest and now a pop quiz because I love pop quizzz. It's easy to overlook, but so much of America's history, innovation, arts, and entertainment politics has been driven by individuals who grew up adopted or in foster families. I'm going to give you some clues and you have to guess which famous orphan I'm describing. If you get two out of three, you win. There

What's that happening home is the nicest word there is.

It's Melissa Gilbert. Her show Lit on the Prairie would have storylines revolving around orphans throughout its run, including one played by friend of the podcast, Chason Bateman.

And we hope you meant what you said about how you want us to stay, because that's what we want.

To Speaking of little houses and prairies, let's get back on that orphan train. As the Children's Aid Society grew, it sent hundreds, then thousands of children all across the country. Now almost none of the riders are alive today. But back in nineteen seventy nine, my CBS Sunday Morning colleague the Great Martha Teichner interviewed sisters Anna and Margaret Fuchs. They and their third sister, Helen, rode the orphan train when they were just ten, nine and seven years old.

The thing that really got to me was seen in that coffin being lowered, and I can remember trying to jump into that grade because that was my mother down there.

When the children were put on a train in nineteen twenty four, they didn't even know where they were headed. As Anna remembered, I had.

Very strong ideas that I was going to California. I didn't know there was any other stake besides New York and California, as far as I was concerned.

Margaret described their arrival in the tiny town of McPherson, Kansas.

First thing I did was to look around. How come they're letting us out in the middle of nowhere. I couldn't see any buildings. I was looking for skyscrapers.

Whenever orphans sent by the Society arrived at their destination, they were lined up on a train platform or on the stage of a theater so that families could walk down the line and pick out their preferred kid. As author Renee Wendinger explains, this process actually gave rise to a familiar turn of phrase.

Some of the children would have stood on a little box called the soap box, and that's how the term put up for adoption became known as we know it today.

If it sounds impersonal, well that's an understatement. Here's how fifteen year old Claire Isaacson described it in her National History Day performance.

Ladies were usually chosen first, then the tougher, stronger looking voice.

US girls were usually chosen vast. We watched people come and go and inspect of the children. We saw them looking at their teeth and even having some boys to push us.

Martha Teichner asked Anna Fuchs about her experience.

Did you ever feel any outrage or any any anger at the fact that you were being kind of lined up there and say, okay, I got a kid.

No, I don't think so. I think it's a matter of you sort of blame yourself for having lost your folks.

The sisters were all selected, but by different families.

How big thought was that when you were standing there the day that you were both selected by families, seeing each other and seeing goodbyes and wondering what's going to happen?

I think it was sort of the case that there was so much confusion and all that we didn't really have that much chance to think about it, did we.

I don't think the thought entered my mind at all until I got there and sat on that step ladder in the kitchen, and then it finally hit me. You are alone that was when you started, and that's when I start in.

Sibling separation was an added trauma thousands of orphan writers suffered over the years.

Were you scared, Yes, I think we just wanted to be sure that we were going to be close enough together so that we get to wouldn't lose each other.

Why was that so important?

What was it's We were family and that was all the family there was.

Even though Anna and Margaret were both taken in by families in the same town, their lives took very different turns. Anna became extremely close to her new mother, Jenny Bankston.

She was a person I could trust when I first came here. When I came out here, that was one thing I did not trust anyone. I had lost faith in people. I really feel like I've had two mothers.

Margaret, meanwhile, was taken in by the Runian family, who ran a local boarding house. They enlisted Margaret to help with cleaning and cooking for guests. It was a pretty cold, business like relationship.

I always had the feeling that I was there in place of a maid.

Now these weren't formal adoptions, at least not at first, but the family's writers ended up with were bound by contract. Parents had to make sure the children went to school and church. They were expectationsations for the kids as well.

Yes, the child had to you know, be a child and listen to those parents and help out around the house, and a household at that moment operated like a little business, whether you were the birth child, or the adopted child, or the foster child.

Basically, what you're saying is being a kid in the nineteenth century wasn't very fun. No, no, absolutely not. But that didn't make it any easier for orphaned children hoping to find a family. Arriving to one like Margaret's was hard.

I honestly don't remember whether I call them mom and dad or whether I call them mister ms Venion.

What does that tell you about your experience.

Well, just that there wasn't that kind of love there, well, affection of any kind.

Does it hurt you that you never had that?

Does it?

Oh?

Yes, yes, particularly when I knew the kind of a home that Anna was in, where she was getting that kind of affection and all.

Mart situation wasn't rare, but spurred by the Children's Aid Society's success, other organizations began to follow suit, and in eighteen sixty nine, the second largest orphan train institution began earlier. I quizzed you on some of America's most prominent real life orphans, but they're not nearly as famous as some fictional orphans. Remember that Herbert Hoover song from about ten minutes ago, Well, it's from a musical centered around an orphan.

Why any kid would want to be an orphan is beyond me.

Not little orphan Annie was a star, first of comic strips, then of the Broadway stage. In my opinion, the nineteen eighty two movie is only worth mentioning for Carol Burnett's Miss Hannigan.

And if this floor don't shine, I could turn with the pressure building or becks.

Unders stamp yes Miss Again.

On television, the nineteen eighties, as It Happens, were a boom time for orphan centered sitcoms, starting with Arnold and Willis on Different Strokes.

Don't get too used at his place?

Who'ld you talk about? Willis?

And there was Punky Brewster.

What doesn't anyone want me?

What's wrong with me? Nothing's wrong with you?

You don't want me?

Neither did my mom, That's.

Why she did?

She?

And who could forget Webster.

I'm r getting used to you guys.

And you know what, chance, we're getting kind of used to you too.

It's surprising, given our love of a good orphan story, that the Orphan Train has been so overlooked. By the time the Civil War ended in eighteen sixty five, the Children's Aid Society had placed twelve hundred children with families in America's heartland, but Charles Loring Brace's organization placed children primarily in Protestant homes, regardless of the fact that many

The New York Founding Hospital starts in eighteen sixty nine with two sisters, Sister Theresa and Sister Anne, and then they're head of their foundling sister Mary Irene Fitzgibbons. And so they start the New York Founding Hospital as tiny little Brownstone and within the night a baby's left on their doorstep.

The demand for their services caught them totally off guard, and.

By the end of the month they have forty five infants. By the end of the year, they have over one hundred, and so their mission turned to placing Catholic babies in Catholic homes.

Not all of those babies were Catholic when they were left at the door of the Foundling Hospital, but as one Orphan trained riders set about the Foundling, you.

Might go in one way, but you'll leave a.

Catholic Following in the tracks of the Children's Aid Society, the Foundling started placing children on trains headed west, but these children were much younger, mostly infants, and specifically chosen to resemble the families they were joining.

They believe that placing out younger children who matched the family by eye color, hair color, age, and gender would cut back on the stigma from the surrounding community because they looked like the family that they were placed in.

So it's sort of the reverse of Children's Aid Society, where the Children's Aid Society sends kids out and then prospective parents choose the kids. Then here it's more of a mail order system, right. Basically, that's what happened to Anne Harrison, who was featured on CBS Sunday Morning back in two thousand and two when she was a spry ninety three.

They had asked for a two and a half year old girl with brown hair and brown eyes. Well they got a two and a half year old girl that had auburn hair and hazel eyes, but that was close enough.

Because she was so young when she arrived. Anne grew up not even knowing she was adopted. Her father made sure that.

Her father basically threatened the entire town to not tell her she was adopted. Her father never wanted her to feel less than to be thought of, that she was not truly his daughter.

But despite her father's best efforts, the other kids and her own teachers never quite accepted her.

I was never popular in school, and that bothered me, and I seemed to always be the odd ball. Orphans or adopted children were not really as good class as the other people. I think that was just a general thought that you were a bad seed if you came from people that they didn't know.

So a lot of the orphan train writers had to contend with people who were not pleased with them being in town. The idea is that you're going to inherit traits of poverty, of vice from parents that some never.

Knew, almost like the orphan train writers are tainted.

Yeah, the negativity of immigration is there from the get go, the negativity of your parents didn't want you, your parents lost you because they were a drunk or abusive or in prison, and.

Would grow up move to Chicago and become a professional nightclub singer. She wouldn't find out she was adopted until she was twenty seven years old, and that wasn't the only surprise waiting for the woman who'd been baptized to Catholic.

In nineteen eighty nine, I get this letter from the New York Health Department. Open it up, and there's my original birth certificate, Mabel Reuben. My mother's name was of Jenny Ruben. My father's name was Moe Kohn.

Well. I looked at that and I just split into laughter.

She just thought, well, I'll just go on and add a Star of David to my crucifix necklace and just keep going, because what can I do?

Well? My Jewish friends said, we know it all about.

The Foundling and Children's Aid Society together set the Lion's share of those two hundred and fifty thousand children west until the last orphan train left for Sulfur Springs, Texas, on May thirty first, nineteen twenty nine, the world had simply outgrown the orphan train. Communities in the Midwest now had their own abandoned children to help. The story doesn't end there. We know how a quarter million children found their way west, but what happened after they grew up?

Do you know the name that was given to you at bern.

Sofia?

Who names your Sofia?

For my mother and my dad?

That's Renee Wendinger interviewing her mother, Sophia Hillesheim Kaminski. Sophia had been an orphan train rider taken in by Anna Grime, a single woman in Springfield, Minnesota, who spoke only German.

She really didn't know how to raise children because she could not be English.

So I had to learn German.

And when I went forward to school, then I had.

To relearned the English because I had only talked German all the time.

So what did you do for entertainment?

I didn't have any entertainment. That had to work all the time.

But that wasn't the worst of it. Was Anna physically abusive?

Yeah she was. She had a little whip that she kept in the corner.

It was a snake handled whip, and by that I mean it was sort of a leather handled whip, and that's the way she would flog her and she'd say, now you remember this, and remember not to do that again.

Sophia's orphan train story is a sad one, but it doesn't end at her childhood. She would grow up to become someone vastly different from Anna Grime. Here's how Renee describes her mother.

She just had such a warm, open heart. There is no one that ever knew her would say anything bad about her, because she was just a warm, loving person.

You know, it's funny that your mother's story in so many of these other orphan train writers' stories. It sort of underlines how vulnerable children are, but also how resilient.

They were the type of people that would just sort of kind of pull the bootstraps up and they would carry on. But my mother would always say, I was just so thankful to have a roof over my head.

Your mother had a lot to be angry about.

She really did, but she did not have that in her heart.

And you know, I don't know if that's something that we inherit Is it biological? Is do we have the influences around us? Is it our geography? I have no idea, but her arms were always outreached to people.

But Renee's mother didn't find peace until near the end of her own life. Did your mother ever forgive Anna?

She did not forgive her until she was about I think she was like ninety six years old, and she asked me one day if I would take her to a cemetery. She said, it's time. I need to go to the cemetery and I need to forgive her.

So you took your ninety six year old mother to the cemetery. And what did she say when she was at the tombstone? Havanna.

I have no idea what she spoke inside her heart and we walked away and she said, it's done. I needed to do that, She said, I should have done that a long time ago.

Now, all the Orphan train riders you've been hearing from in this episode, Renee's mother, Sophia, Anna, and Margaret Fuchs, Ann Harrison, they're all voices from the past. They're all gone. But I wanted to talk to a writer myself, and so I went down to Texas to meet the last known survivor being orphan train rider. Okay, testing testing right here, I'm in a conference room at an assisted living facility

The only thing is we know for ninety seven she's doing great.

That's her son, George. You're a terrific looking ninety seven and appreciating you may be the last surviving orphan train rider. How does that feel?

Well, I'm kind of They believe that because I was the smallest on that train.

She's a national treasure. Did you hear that?

No, you're a national treasure.

You are because you are.

You absolutely are.

Well.

I appreciate that. I'm thinking, I think extra from any other orphan.

Beatrice, the daughter of an Irish immigrant, was only fourteen months old when she made the trip from New York City, landing with a Czech family in Texas. She's got a fascinating story, but in the end, the person that seems least interested in it is Beatrice. I asked her about discovering she was an orphan train rider. You didn't know that you'd been adopted.

I didn't know I was an orphan. I didn't know anything. I just read it all the time. You mind you mama, You mind your mama, And I didn't pay attention.

Could I asked her about her birth mother, who was twenty nine when she had her.

If she used she stood that chance of getting pregnant, then she should have known that she finet to provide for that baby.

Do you wonder what the rest of her life was like?

You mean my real mother?

No, I asked Beatrice if she ever wondered what she might have missed out on having been scooped up and moved so far away so young.

Well, yeah, I mean I was adopted into a into a family, and and that was my family. There's that, you know, that was my life.

You've never imagined, even for a moment, what your life would have been like if you stayed in New York.

Oh yeah, oh yeah, I thought about that, America?

And what did you think?

What were you?

Thank God? I'm I'm here in Texas. I'm satisfied with my life the way it is, and and I'm so blessed with you know, the people that adopted me and and and brought me up and raised me right and probably much better than my real parents.

With and if you ever do want to come to New York, I've got a guest room. We'll go see a Broadway show. You ever see Phantom of the Opera? No, it's terrific.

Yeah.

There was no dramatic revelation from Beatrice, no Rosebud moment. She didn't render a sweeping verdict on whether the Orphan Train was good or bad. As she saw it, She rode the train, she grew up, she moved on. It was what it was. But when Beatrice herself passes on, that won't be the end of the Orphan Train story. Descendants, historians and budding historians like Claire Isaacson are still telling it today. Does this give you kind of a new appreciation of the importance of preserving history.

I believe it does.

Yeah, and especially this movement, because it's not well known at all. And I've joined the little community of the Orphan Train rider, people trying to keep the story alive.

And the main way of preserving it is through Orphan Train reunions. When they first started in the nineteen sixties, they were places for the writers themselves to gather.

What these writers would do, would stand up and tell their stories. And I found them so intriguing and so interesting.

These riders.

When they got together, they celebrated for three straight days.

I'm struck by how you used the word celebrate. What do you mean celebrate?

They celebrated their togethern Us as orphan trained brothers and sisters.

But as the number of riders has dwindled, they've become a chance for descendants to share memories and stories of their loved ones who have passed on.

It's quite amazing.

In fact, we feel very much a kinship with each other. We all know what our parents felt or our grandparents felt, and soon, hopefully the grandchildren of these writers will take over.

The legacy of the Orphan train movement. Isn't easy to quantify. While all the writers were impacted by their new communities and families, many grew up to make their own impact on the world.

The kids went on to serve in the Civil War, World War One, World War II, Korea. We have some that served in Vietnam. Just thinking politically, you know, speaking the people who served in our state governments, in our Congress.

Just some of the orphan trained riders who went on to lead lives of distinction. Andrew Burke became the second governor of the state of North Dakota. His friend John green Brady, who rode the same orphan train, would become governor of the Territory of Alaska. Henry L. Jost became mayor of Kansas City, Missouri, his nickname the Orphan Boy Mayor before joining the United States Congress. Joe Iya would become head football coach at Louisiana Tech University and inducted

Yeah, they helped shape America, but.

On a personal level, the trains meant something different to each child who rode them. For Anna Fuchs, it was the best possible solution to a terrible situation.

It took a lot of kids off of the streets of New York who might have become prostitutes and beggars and thieves and gave them another chance of life for.

Her sister Margaret. Though its benefits couldn't justify the pain it caused for that time.

I guess it was as good as anything. It was all it was, but I certainly can't go along with it. I feel that the idea of taking children and having them lose all contact with any of the relatives I think is wrong.

And Harrison never let the inauspicious start to her life slow her down.

I've had a good life, you think so.

Yes, I just took opportunities when they came, and when I couldn't find the opportunities, I lived with what was there.

But it's Renee Wendinger's perspective that will stick with me the longest.

I am a grandmother, and every time my grandchildren have turned the age of two, I look at them and I think, oh, my gosh, this is what my mother would have looked like when she boarded that train at Grand Central terminal. And I really cannot imagine that little child getting on a train to somewhere to know where.

I have no idea what my life is going to be like.

Wow, and two year olds is so vulnerable.

Absolutely so vulnerable, it hits your heart. You know, I don't know anyone that does not have a heart for any child.

An update since we first posted this episode in December twenty nineteen, we learned that Beatrice Voytech passed away at the age of one hundred. Her local newspaper wrote that Beatrice started life in New York City, but an orphan train ride was in her future to take her to East Bernard, where she lived all her life. I am so grateful that I had the chance to meet her that day in Texas and to learn her remarkable story. Mobits will be back next week with the story of

You are evil heathen.

And one of these days the Lord is gonna strike you down.

If he ever decide to get his hands dirty.

But Page was much more than a secondary character on a sitcom. A queen of comedy. She remains an inspiration to comedians including Whoopy Goldberg. She as funny as hell, Yeah you know, and black women. They will tear you up. They will tear you up, they will talk about it, they will tell you about yourself. I certainly hope you enjoyed this mobituary, Nah ask you to please rate and