Misspelling with Tory Spelling and iHeartRadio podcast and back where I Belong I'm back with doctor Hillary. Yes, there's deep wounds about the public perception, the constant public perception. Like the wounds are so deep it's like scar tissue that's built up so far, I don't even know how to unravel it to start anew.
Is a very particular plight a celebrities relationship with the public perception, and it's difficult to talk about because it sort of plays into the very thing we're talking about, which is holding up your particular role in society, which is unique and embodied by just a small percentage of people. But no one really understands unless you're in it, what it's like to live your life, to have those kind of projections and opinions and perceptions put on you. It
can be quite traumatic in its persistent. It's an important thing to continue to unwind, and it's much more complex than this conversation. But for the purposes of this conversation, I just want to reflect back to you that that is your truth, and that is the dilemma your family
is facing. So by definition, all of those components of your family dynamic are going to be less than ideal or quote subpar, because you're having to exist in a real life scenario where you're trying to keep your family safe and educated and living well enough, right, and so it's a portion of it that you have to continue to work to accept. It's going to be imperfect because of your situation. And this is true for most people.
We've all talked as a family, mom works so we can live, and that's the reality. And I don't know how to break it down any simpler. Maybe that's too harsh to say to them.
But yeah, no, I have many things to say about this, and you're talking about such a ubiquitous plight for many women that what is ideal in terms of attention and roles and responsibilities for children is not able to be cultivated because of the reality of needing to provide resources.
Period.
It doesn't really matter if the public understands or not. That's your reality. The way that I like to combat the kind of guilt that you're talking out about and the potential side effects of the roles that your children and body or sixteen year old in particular, or the things that your kids might feel or miss out on because of the thing I talked to you about before, which is narrating. It sounds like you do do that to a a certain extent, but you can be more
pointed in this regard. Do you sit down with them. You might sit down with them as a group. I would certainly sit down with your sixteen year old separately and sort of saying like, I just want to think out loud with you about this truth that we have going on in this family. Right You're in this role of taking care of family needs and the kiddos in a way that like most kids aren't, and you're amazing at it, and you're like a beautiful machine, you know, And I'm.
So proud of you.
And also it's hard and it's something I would rather not have you do. And whether you notice that feeling inside or not, I do, and I can't fix it. I can't change it, but I just want to let you know I see it, and if there are any moments I can lessen the load, I will do so. But in the meantime, like I see you, I acknowledge this is hard, and you know, I'm so sorry for
the moments when it's overwhelmed. I'm so sorry when it's overwhelming I'm so sorry for the moments when you're doing something that like a kiddo shouldn't have to do, and I just want to sit with you in that truth. It's really important for our kids to have us narrate the reality when something's hard. It's hard, and if we can't change it, we can't change it. Paradoxically, saying it
aloud is very containing. So while of course we can't quote fix the fact that your daughter has to take on these roles at the moment, what you can do is narrate it for her and validate it and stand in that truth with her. It will make such a big difference in her story, her conceptualization of it, in a year, in five years, and ten years, and my
mom understood the impact on me. It didn't change maybe what I did or didn't have to do or get to do, but having somebody witness to your truth is everything.
I do feel it's important to talk to her about that, especially right now, because I know her life does look very different than her friend's lives, and yeah, I'll try to acknowledge that more. And I've also seen because of and this has really happened in the last three months of working constantly that the other four, predominantly both females that would be my six year old and my thirteen year old, have really hardcore taken on the parental rule with the seven year old, and I feel like it's
confusing to him and not backfiring. But my husband was, you know, we'd always you know, we talk in terms of two parent figures and there's a bad cop and a good cop.
He was definitely more strict. I was more lenient.
He was you know, by the book and get things done, more organized, process, stuff, procedural, all of that. I was the loving, emotional let's make stuff, Let's do this, like, let's go, let's do you know, free spirit, kind of love, love love, kind to a fault.
Probably should have put.
More boundaries in place, and then boom, when your houses are separating, you go through a divorce, it's something you kind of don't think about when that partner that did set the boundaries and was the voice of no is suddenly eliminated from the house. So that is on a whole new level. I had to suddenly take on both roles good cop, bad cop. You know, I became the kind enforcer. It was clashing on every level of my DNA. So for the first year, I did hear a lot of you sound like dad, and I was.
Like, oh, my gosh.
Not that I don't like Dean or love him, but it was like I knew what they meant. You know, you're being so strict, and you know, it was a hard thing to hear, and I'd be like, well, you know, I have to step up, and i'd tell him now. You know, back then I would think your ring all too hard on them. But I look back now and I'm like, you know, you're doing a really great job in that respect because I wasn't setting boundaries, was too lenient. I was too the guilt mom that was always working.
So I you know, it's just all about love fun. Oh it's okay if you don't do this or clean up or you know, take out the dogs. Like now, when I'm doing it all alone, I realize, oh my gosh, they got to step up because I can't manage a life of six and work at.
The same time alone. You have to help me, guys.
I was talking about the older kids being parental figures to the seven year old. But I do hear this a lot lately. What tone are you speaking to me, and who do you think you're talking to? They don't say it loud or mean, but very stern. Parent, that's not okay. You need to go sit in a time out. And I'm like, whoa, guys, because then he comes to me and I'll be in another room working and I'm like, wait,
what happened? What happened? So I'm hearing his story. He's crying, and I have said to them, you know, guys, it might be confusing for him. Well, he's acting out more. And I said, because he's confused. Perhaps when I was gone for three weeks, or when I'm on set, or when I'm working outside of the home, that makes sense to him. But when I am here, he's confused because he has four siblings that are acting like a parent.
But then he has one parent that perhaps is just going, going, going, that's not setting the boundaries.
So I'm sure he's confused.
I think it's really important that you recast yourself as the arbitrator of what happens with your little one. And I would again, I'm so big on narrating. I'm say it out loud. I identified something in our family that's not working. Oops, we're going to shift it like, sorry, guys, sometimes takes me a minute to figure out what's right
for us, and I think I got it. So I am the CEO of what happens with all of you kits, including the little one, and guys, thank you so much for taking care of him, for watching him, for playing with him, for feeding him, for getting to bed on time. You guys are amazing, And I understand why you might have moved towards taking on this role of sort of disciplinarian or you know, helping him regular whatever the thing is. But I am. I am the CEO of that part
of this family. And so if something happens with him, like come find me, like tell me what's going on, and like happy to hear your opinion, happy to hear your perspective. But I am the decider. If he goes into time out, I am the decider, if he has to go into his room. I am the decider if his tone is appropriate or not. And while your older ones will not thank you for this in the moment, in fact, they may even protest, in the long run, they will thank you for it. They don't want the role,
they don't want the responsibility. It feels over time uncontaining rather than you know, sort of autonomy producing right what most kids crave. It's like some version of like whatever they say goes, and whoever the they is, whether it's like you or you and your partner, whoever it is,
that's containing and predictive and regulating. So I would like make an announcement that this is going to shift and I get it, like it might take a moment for everyone to remember what their roles are, but this is what we're headed to. And I would empower your little one, like not in a shaming way with your older ones, but like, hey, if this is like going on, just just come let me know, because we're in the middle of shiftingness. We're in the middle of changing it back
and look toward. Just because you were not there at times, says many many parents across the country, doesn't mean you have to or should relinquish any part of that role. You still have to embody it fully and they want you to. They're not going to ask you for it, and I'm going to thank you for it, but they want you to. It is the opposite of regulating and orienting and grounding. When we abandon that role or do it intermittently. Nobody enforces boundaries regularly and properly all the time.
We get exhausted and overwhelmed and like say, just do it. So it My gauge is always like more often than not, you know, more often than not is what we're going for. Like life is imperfect and messy, as I was saying before, But that second piece you're talking about so critical, which is really difficult embodying that role of being the like boundary setter and the enforcer. One of my favorite parenting
hacks is like you can always go back. So it's like, you know, it's the next day, your thirteen year old, and you're like, you asked to stay up late. I said yes, and you went to bed two hours past your bedtime. You know what I thought about it, that's on me. The answer should have been no. You know, I felt that I was gone. I felt that I didn't see you all day, and I still feel like, really, you're.
Missing time with you.
But you know what, it's my job to make sure you're safe and you're well rested and ready for school, and like next time it's going to be a now off. You know, I love you so that even when you mess it up, you can say it out loud and sort of hold yourself accountable in sort of a kind way.
I have said it to the thirteen year old and the six year old, and unfortunately the answer, and it's not wrong in their part, is but he needs boundaries and you don't do it, you don't say no to him. Yep, they're not wrong.
So two things I would say to them fair I hear you acknowledged, validated, and painful for all three of us. You know, just sit in that truth. I am in the middle of working on it. It is accurate having said that, as I'm in the middle of working on it. This here is an example of it. It's a boundary and my job to decide what happens when when the little one isn't doing what he's supposed to do. So
it's a boundary that I'm setting right now. I know it's hard to get used to, and I know you still may see me fall short, but that doesn't mean that changes whose role is what? And so it might be tricky to kind of stand by and watch me, But that's exactly what I'm going to ask you to do. Please feel free to come and tell me if you think there's something going on, I absolutely, Like you know, we're a boardroom. I'm the chair, like you be a
board member. Come tell me if there's something going on that I didn't see, Come tell me there's something going on that like an issue that needs to be addressed.
Absolutely, your voice will be heard.
That's a way to deal with that painful And it sounds like somewhat real feedback is I'm in the middle of setting a boundary now, so I'm asking you to listen to it and fair. You're saying a truth and I want your input. But I want to be the leader, and I may fall short at times and you may see it, you may point it out, and that's part of being human, but that is still the goal I have in mind. Again, that will feel containing. They do not want to maintain the narrative that, oh my mom
can't do this, so I have to. That is not fun for them and it's not true either. And you know you working on setting boundaries, it sounds like it's tied into this sense of guilt and self doubt. I think a motivating element, even like a game changer, like a breakthrough, is the very real idea and there's lots of research in this regard that like the absence of boundaries creates a decent amount of chaos for our kiddos.
You know, they really end up feeling a version of dysregulation and unpredictability that you may not see in the moment, right, you know, set a boundary, like you let them stay up light.
It's not like they're out.
Of control and destabilized and fall apart. But over time you may see them having trouble with a commitment or attention or staying in things, or being a self starter, or being autonomous or carving out directions for themselves on like a micro a macro level, and just with emotional as I said regulation that boundaries and structure and expectations
help kids feel safe. So as you consider like your own feeling state, your guilt trying, and like your visual hierarchy of needs, like at the top of that over your guilt is their need for concrete structure in order to feel emotionally safe, I aim to get there. What you're saying is it's actually such a good point to pause up for a minute, which is that when it feels overwhelming, a lot of us just press like the
eject button. It's like, I don't have to do here, and I'm just going to keep doing what I normally do because I am.
Parallel to hustle and work and provide that's all, and deal with anything else. Hate the bills. You know. It's like everything you're saying feels so accurate.
And I'm the type that I'm a great listener and I understand things, and I always say I'm an actress.
I take direction.
Well, so when I hear and I understand, I want to take effect. But then I'm like, the holiday season is December, you know, holidays coming up, and it's like, well, I can't start now twenty twenty five, you know, January, because there's also that guilt of like Christmas and the expectations and just making My seven year old said, Mom, do you think this Christmas you can buy me a gift? Well I can't say to him, well, all the gifts you got from Santa I.
Bought, you know.
So I was like, oh my gosh, you know, I think one of the things I put was from me. And then he got a present from his dad. But also it was like he's not understanding because I think in the past there's been over abundance of you know, because of guilt and whatever I have, I work hard, but whatever I have, I give to them and anyone around me, Like, that's just who I am. I feel like when you have it, share it. I don't believe in holding onto it, which is why I have financial struggles.
So I have to readjust that.
But yeah, so he thought I didn't get him a gift and I was like, oh, and I said, yes, I promise, and it's it's just trying. And I know you can relate, and every mom and dad out there can relate. You know, the comparison with the friend circle, it's a tough one. And you know, growing up for me, my parents were super wealthy. So it's something new I'm learning when you know my kids saying, oh, all my friends either have this or are getting it, and I can't puta for them, but I want to because I
want him to fit in. And I know this is something you know, take the tory spelling out of it. This is universal with parents everywhere. I'm sure you want your kid to feel accepted.
Of course.
Of course, of course, it's like ubiquitous and primitive, right, you know, when your kiddos say a version of that, responding with something like, I think you're trying to ask me, like where we are and what's possible in our family. I think that's what you're trying to ask me. You know, such a good question. I mean you're also asking me if I'm going to get you a gift, and the answers yes, I'm going to get you one gift, I'm going to get you three gifts. Whatever the answer is, Like,
whatever the real answer is, I would provide it. But I think you're trying to ask me where we are and what's possible. And it's a good question because things are tricky right now, and you notice that, so part of you for asking this question. And the answer is you know, I can't get you the same amount of stuff that I used to be able to get you, or I can't get you the same amount of stuff that your friends are getting this year, so hard. I
know that feels sad. I know that feels bad. You know, it's hard to look at other people and see what they have and see we don't have the same thing. Those are like real feelings and you're trying to figure out what it's going to feel like this year. So I'm trying to help you give you a sets of about what it's going to feel like this year, and it seems like it might not be exactly what you want, and that's just really hard, you know. And I would just sit in that conversation with him or any of
your kids that bring that up. Later you can say something like, gosh, I was thinking about our conversation. I have some other ideas, and it's during this time that you can offer some other concepts about life that you might want to put forth, like how important and invaluable connection is, and how important it is to have gratitude for what you do have, and how important it is to value connection over stuff. Right, I don't want listeners to think that it's only a discussion about stuff and
the only thing that matters. But we want to get in their reality. That's a real thing. Your kid is two things are happening. They're both trying to literally understand what am I getting, relatives friends are getting, and also what is happening in our family and post divorce and a shift in financial situation that's disorienting. He wants to be oriented, and so even if the news is not what he wants to hear it's going to ultimately be grounding.
And even if you miss it the first time, like you're just sort of like, yeah, one gift and you miss the opportunity to you can always go back, you know, I was thinking about it. You're asking. I think something else too, And it gives you an opportunity to sort of get in there because there's ongoing trauma and confusion and considerations for kids not only who have a kind of change in financial situation, but for kids who are
going through separation and divorce. Every season of kids' lives, it hits them differently, and so you have five who are going to have this hit them differently in different ways, in different seasons. So staying in that conversation with them.
Is really important, definitely, And I think on my part, at least, the want of kids always just wanting their parents together, I think kept me from ultimately making well was outwardly a better decision for them and what they saw between two partners. It kept me for a long time is because in my conditioned brain, of course, you know, my parents were married over twenty five years up until my dad passed, you know, and I saw.
A family always together, and so it was different.
And I always thought, you know, as bad as things might be between my partner and myself, it's better to have their dad in the house than in a different residence, and that I think that kept me in the relationship far too long, and it, ultimately, I feel did a disservice to my kids, you know. Granted, you know, I think both he and I were in a place where we might have separated and divorced before Bo was born, but we worked on our relationships stayed together, and I'll
never regret not leaving then. I'm sure he wouldn't either, because we wouldn't have had Bo. And Bo is our blessing and our love and our heart and souls. So I'm grateful. But you know, after Bo was born and I was twenty seventeen, things didn't get better between us, and and granted, there's still times that I'm like, oh my gosh, it would be so nice to have that extra set of hands in the house. It would be so nice for the kids to be like, Okay, mom's there,
and I see dads in the other room. And to be honest, in the last years of our relationship, we did things as a family for the kids, and we, you know, would be in the same room, but you know, I was in my bedroom. He slept in a different bedroom. My husband is sober now over a year now, so we're very proud of him.
But before that, it.
Was it was rough for them to see and it was very disjointing. And I feel like I didn't separate the families in household terms, only sooner, But of course we can't go back, so we're dealing with it now. But it's hard not to have their in the house.
Many many women stay longer than they quote should or stay period because of these truths, and you picked up a harder path. Ultimately. One of the things I like to talk about with clients that are going through divorce is thinking about the conceptualization example of love that you are holding up for your kids is really important. When there's an absence of fill in the blank, an absence of connection, playfulness, romanticism, communication, whatever the things that were
absent in your relationship with your ex husband. We're teaching them something about what relationships are and what love is, and it matters and it has an imprint and making a decision to disentangle that and explain to the kids in age appropriate way. We're better off as your parents rather than as a married couple. Allows for a shift in that narrative, and we have a responsibility about the story we share with our kids model for our kids
about love. And it's one of I think the orienting factors to hang on to when you're in the midst of co creating the separation of a family, because it's you know, it's like an assault on the heart, co creating that right, it's unthinkable and in the doing of it,
it's incredibly painful. But that is one of the grounding forces, I think, and it sounds like one of the things that led you out, and you know, not doing it sooner is all part of that analysis and calculation of like where it's the tipping point and you're in the midst of two not such great decisions. There's just there's no winning path there in terms of the kids.
I know I unloided a lot on you today and I'm so sorry. I didn't anticipate even opening up this much. I've really related to you and connect it with you, so thank you.
Would you come back and do this with me again? Will you have me? Or am I too? Much.
I will absolutely come back, and I loved our conversation too.
Here's my takeaway, Doctor Hillary, I deserve to have you in my life.