5. The Transcript

From my Heart Media, this is Missing in Alaska, the story of two congressmen who vanished in ninety two and my quest to figure out what happened to them. I'm your host, John Wallzack. What you just heard and what you're about to hear is a recreation of an interview of Jerry Max Paisley conducted by three investigators Mike Grimes, Tom Davis, and Dave Tullis on November eight in Tucson, Arizona.

Paisley again was the man Peggy Begett married less than seventeen months after her husband, Congressman Nick Beggett, disappeared in Alaska. Paisley and Peggy's marriage lasted two and a half years. They divorced in nineteen seventy six. Paisley was a murderer and bomber with close ties to to mafia families, the Bananas and the look of Olie's. Initially, I obtained a transcript of this interview from the FBI by way of a FOYA or Freedom of Information Act request, but there

was one big problem. Significant parts of the transcript were adapted, meaning they were blacked out. I could read some things, but not everything. So last year I tried a different approach. I filed the record's request with the Alaska Department of Public Safety, trying to get copies of the original interview tapes.

For months, I fought with the Alaska DPS, and let me say, in more than a decade of requesting records at the federal, state and local levels, I've never encountered a more difficult, obstinate, hard to work with agency than the Alaska DPS. Was tried to charge us almost two thousand dollars just to look and see whether or not the tapes even exist. Thankfully, though, I got a huge break when a source who wants to remain anonymous, gave

me a full, unredacted copy of the transcript. Thanks to that source, I now know everything, Jerry Paisley told investigators. What you're about to hear is a verbatim reading of part of the transcript. We're not sharing the entire thing, mainly because it's seventy one pages long, but this is the most important part. It's never been shared publicly. It's edited very lightly for clarity, mainly to remove ums. For example, we also bleat the N word, which Paisley said twice

during this recreation. You'll hear certain sound effects. We put them in there to indicate parts of the transcript that are marked with inaudible or comments covered. Again, this is an exact reading of the transcript. The first words you'll hear are Paisley's voiced by Scott Sea leads. I don't know why things went the way they did. Sometimes, you know, I was just pretty much I'm what they call in those days. There's two eras in my life. There's there's

two parts of my life. There's before drugs and after drugs. Before drugs, I was just basically a fucking thuck known as a do things guy. If you wanted something done, you came to see me. If it was right for me, I do it for you, sometimes without money. Sometimes I charge you know, why wait for a favorite later? You owe me, you know. And I did a lot of

that down here. I think my record shows that because I've had this, not this conversation, but I've had conversations with people that he knows are in and out of the game, been retired for years, and we can go back in the records and see that I'm a I was a do things guy for some pretty big people at one time. You know, big people wanted me to do things for them. Sometimes I was taking advantage of Sometimes I took advantage. And I don't know why things

sometimes I don't know. I can't put it all together. I just know what happened and walked away, you know. Hail Boggs and Nick Baggage. Hail Boggs was a god big man. He was Speaker of the House, Speaker of the House and just been into it with the FBI and all that ship. He'd been harassing the FBI pretty bad, doing something against him. I don't know what, but I remembered it was something to do with him in the fens. There's a guy here in town called Joey A Tarola.

You know, you know him. They call him Joey the Eye mafiosa from Chicago. You know. He's Nicki Palermo's cousin. He's on the outs with him now. And he was with the Bananos. A lot of people don't know that. A lot of people suspect that. A lot of people think that. But he was just he was JB's guy in town, old man Banano. You know. Yeah, Tom's already told us, you know, given us a history about. Yeah. He came to me one time and I'm hanging out at the Trail, Spanish Trail, and you know, I'm gonna

tell you this, but but I'm just all right. I don't think we can go anywhere with it, you know. But I'm gonna say this. If we do decide to go someplace with it, you guys gotta give me a hand, Okay, huh okay, don't throw me out there. Then no fucking wolves or nothing. But I don't see how we can possibly go anywhere with it. He came to me and I'm at the Trail, the Spanish Trail motel, one of the biggest at the time, one of the biggest in town. People friends of mine own it. They were half asked

Louis Marconi and his dad. I pretty much had the run of the place. If he wanted a room to spend the night, I wanted to bring abroad. Come and see me. Is a key for you? Just do your favorite the bar tab I could drink all I want, eat all I want. I was there. Guy Joey came to me and asked me if I could get him a room for one night, you know, for a friend of his who favorite for the old man is what he said, No problem, man, you know I got him

a room. He said, I'll meet you down here tomorrow afternoon. So the next afternoon he met me. I gave him a key to the room. He said, take a ride with me to the airport. We drove to the airport. Well, I hate to sell you all this ship, but I'm just gonna tell you. Okay. He goes inside the airport. I sit out in the car. He came out with Peggy Baggage. We got in the car. He introduced her to me as Margaret. We went back to the hotel, took her to a room. What year would this have been,

This would have been seventy two summer, all right. We went back to the hotel. I gave her the key to the room, took her bag. She had just one bag. Went in there. Joey left. I left. I had my room there. It was up the way. Joey says to me before he leaves, he said, why don't you have dinner with us tonight? I said, sure, you know, he says, pick her up at eight o'clock, come to the Conti Qui. It's a Pollinesian showing here in town. I called her

about seven thirty. I said, I'm supposed to pick you up. Be about of banking. I'll be ready. So I go and pick her up. We drive to the Cantiqui. We went in there there's Joey the Eye and Joe Panano. I went to the table. We went to the table, the four of us. We sat there, We ate, we ordered, we ate. Now, Joe Banano was not my buddy. He's not a type of guy hang around with nothing. But I knew the old man. I knew him from his son, Joey Jr. I took his wife, Faye one time when

she was here in two sons. Give you a little background here. And she had to go to California to San Francisco to her daughter's house, which was Katherine Genevise, and he asked me, he sent word for me to pick up his wife, take her and drive her to San Francisco, which was sort of like, you know how those daggos are. I mean, you don't just they don't throw anybody in their car with their wives, you know

what I mean, especially you know, mother and children. So I'm the one that took faith to San Francisco, to Genevese's house. Anyway, he's there and he gives me that old bullshit that he always does. Oh, you're a good boy. You're a good boy. You're my boy, joe You looked up for my boy, Joey. He gives me all that ship. We had dinner there and we ate. After dinner, Joey the eye gives me the sign he wants to talk to me, so we go to the bar. I leave the two of them alone. We went to the bar.

We had a few drinks, me and him sitting there, you know, and basically I could I sensed right away what it was. It was just to get me away from the table. He didn't say that, you know, but I didn't question him, you know, you know what time it is in cases like that. And we went back to the table after a while, and that was it. They left. I took her. We went to the Barons, which was a bar here in town, did a little dancing, a little drinking, ship like that, and that's how I

met her. I got friendly with her about two weeks after. When I say two weeks three weeks after that, Joey the Eye came to me and says, you want to take a trip, okay, for the old man? For us, he said, for us? So I said sure. I said all right. He says, meet me down here. He gave me a certain time to meet him. He says, don't pack a bag. He says, just bring us suit travel travel light because you're gonna be going one night. May be too peca. He was explicit about this, for me,

not to bring a suitcase, bring us suit bag. So I took just a soup bag with a couple pairs of underwear and there pairs of socks, a change of one change. He picked me up, he drove me to the airport. He's got a one way ticket to Alaska. I've never been to Alaska, he says. Gene foul is going to meet you at the airport. Okay, Now I knew he knew Fouler because you know, Fouler used to come to Justice Court all the time. He was hanging out over there at the time, and everybody like that.

I've never seen old name Banano never came in there to my knowledge. Okay. I got on the plane. Oh, when he drove up there, he gave me the suitcase and the key to it. He said, here, don't even open this funck and just take it to Fowler. He'll meet you at the airport. Fouler meets me at the airport when I get off the plane to Alaska. I've never been there before. Danny's even itches with him, and he went to some fucking It wasn't a hotel. It's like an apartment. That's where I spent the night. And

I gave him a suitcase. Now that's all I know. Later on, Danny tells me when I get back there, I went back. This must have been I'm gonna say September seventy two. I went back April seventy three, and me and Zivinage got real tight. Okay. I hung out with Jean for a little while there at Chef's in and all that stuff, Me and Zivinage got real tight. Zivinache told me later that it was a fucking bomb and a high high tech bomb, you know, m hmm. Now, I don't know if he was just bullshit me. When

did that plane go down? You know, when did it go down? It went down in October seventy two. I don't know who put it on there. I don't know. I don't even know if I was being bullshitted, if I was being lied to. I sort of feel like I was being told the truth. Well, when did I know that Peggy and Zivinitch we're half and I'm not saying Peggy even had this done? You know, I don't know. I don't know what what what the fucking story was there?

You know? I know that it was something I wanted to I wanted to know, but I didn't want to delve too much off into it. But it was Now, who was it that told you that this high tech bomb? Was that Gene Fowler that told you that? Or that was Danny's Vinache, Danny Zvinach, my partner. See see, I never heard of him in years. I have no idea where he's even at He's real low pro he's real low profile. He didn't get into the drugs with us, He stayed out of the trucks. Do you know where

he's at now or anything? Danny's ivanach. I heard he's an anchorage, still an anchorage, or I here owns a bar out there. But I don't know for sure. I know that me, him and Peggy went into business together, and she'd give him the she'd give us the money to open that joint. What do I think my own personal opinion, I don't know. I don't know. I know that these people got tentacles that can reach all over the country. Sometimes, I mean, that would be so fucking heavy.

I mean, that's like killing the president for christ you know. Well, yeah, if it's even true. Yeah, And now a quick ad break, and now we're back with more of the transcript. I do know this. I know I kept the suitcase. I know I had the key, and I never opened it. In fact, I never even I just carried it to the counter. They took it when I got off the baggage, picked it up in Gean Fowler took the fucking bag, you know. So I never opened it, but I wouldn't

have done that anyway. I didn't know what was in it. I knew it wasn't drugs, though, Well, where where did I mean, this first meeting down here is the first time you ever met Peggy? Right? Yeah? Where did you meet these other people at? I mean, did she know the criminal you never heard? Or how long they've known her? I don't know. I really don't know, you know, and I you know, I tried to ask her, and she

was sort of secretive about that, you know. I mean because during that time her husband was then a congressman, you know, and you know what, you just sort of expect them to travel in a different circle, and I was wondering where she would have met all these people at. Well, see, here's the thing. Let me say something to you about that. You say, different circles. The fucking deacon, see, anybody's was with them down there? You know. The head of the

FBI for the Anchorage area name was Jay Daley. He was at my house for parties and ship like that after I married her. You know, even the chief police whatever his name was at the time, flying again at that time, I can't remember what his name was. But we go to banquets and ship and we'd sit at his table. He'd sit with us and try and remember I can't think of his name, you know, It's just

one of those things. Uh. They were around there, Pat Brown, you know, he came to town, he'd come to the house. You know. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I don't know, man, I don't know. Well, when did you get back after you got back to Anchorage, when did you get back together with her? When when did you see her again? I went back up in April when I was working at the holiday in and she came to town. She checked into the holiday and she was staying there. See,

and I've worked my shift. I was working the day shift, I think at that time. And me and her go honky tonk and at night and one thing leads to another, and you know, well we got married and she says, what do you want to do? I want to have me a bar, you know, And we were hanging out with Danny a little bit, you know. Danny came in with us. So the three of us bought that bar. I came down here and bought a house, bought a brand new house out here at the end of Speedway five.

Acres of land paid seventy five thousand for it in those days, grand cash down. Yeah, I'd imagine she got quite a quite an insurance settlement she got. She got fucking he had double indemnity on the apartments. Is that right? Am I saying that right? Double indemnity accidental death benefit type thing. Yeah, you get paid twice, I think, yeah, you know, depending on what the policy you got and the mortgage. The apartments were paid off free and clear. Mm hmm. Did they blow him up? I don't know.

Did JB have him blown up? I don't know. I know I took a fucking package up there and they said it was a bomb, Danny did They might have been bullshit me? What kind of bag was it they took up there? It wasn't. It was a suitcase, a suitcase, Yeah, but it wasn't a big one. Mm hmm. And that's all like hard suitcase or a soft suitcase. Looked like it was soft. I mean, you know, if I pressed on it, could I have felt something in their fabric side or was it plastic hard side? I think it

was cloth. It was leather. I think it was hard leather. I just started pressing on him now this would have been you went up there that How many months were you? I mean that plane went down November? Was it November, October or October? I'm not sure, I can't remember. I know it was early winner fall. You went up there? Wind was that during the summer or something? Or I

went up there? Must have been September September, Okay, yeah, it must have been September because I I was hanging out at the trail then you know enjoy the eyes, the one that gave you the bag. Yeah, yeah, that that would have been probably late October, early November, because when the plane went down, well, because his purpose for being up there was to help the Biggitch campaign for re election, I believe. Yeah. Now later on I was down here when he went down, and we were all

in the office over there on Broadway. A matter of fact, it was Walter Prito's office, remember Pritto, But he had an office over there on speed on Broadway and country Club, right across from the Austin Sandwich shop upstairs in the Coldwell bankup building. They had a big sign on it, and we're all in there, me, Louis mcconi, him, somebody else.

I can't think of a couple more guys, and they were talking about bogs and the plane going down, and it was Pritto that said something about, well the funk funk with the FBI or something like that. They probably blew them up or something like that. That's what asshole pre O said, you know. So he's the one that brought up that ship about blown him up. You know, now, were they blown up? Nobody knows if they were blown up there because they never found it. Not a trace,

not a trace of the fucking thing. I thought about it, well, you know how the country is up there though, I mean, well, yeah, yeah, exactly, you know, And I thought about it, and like when Danny was talking to me. See Danny was drunk, you know, you know how guys are when they get drunk, you know how they start their whiskey, start your running off. And he was talking about being a high tech fucker and just how high tech was it, you know, And

not only that, I thought about this later. You know, From what I understand, the plane was a spur of the moment plan. Yeah I don't recall, did you did you enough of it? From what I understand, they were gonna fly commercial to Juno. I know it was a charter right, they were gonna fly commercial to Juneo and the flights that night, so all at once they jumped

up and said, well, let's chatter a plane. So you know, just how if if they they would have had a bomb, how do they know they're going to try to a plane, you know? And how do they and how do they get it on there afterwards? Yeah? You know what I mean? Sure, See unless it was made for a car and they were going to put it up under a car somewhere and said well fuck it, let's get the plane. Well

how do those people know that? See, that's where the mystery comes in from me, you know, yeah, because they don't know nothing about that. Yeah, you know what, I don't know. I remember when it went down, but I just don't know enough about the details about it. You know. She she ran around on him a lot, you know that she had her. Yeah that wasn't Shelly, was it? Now? She had her an Air Force pilot from was it Elmendorf Air Force Base? That's where he was out of See,

I've heard that a year or two before he was killed. Yeah, she had her. She was screwing around. She had a black a black man, and Nick knew it. Nick went to Jesse Car and cried like a baby and said, hey, she told me that he's coming to Washington with us, you know. And I guess he did go somehow or other he got transferred down there or something, you know, And Nick said he couldn't do nothing about it. I never off into that with her. Peggy never did say

anything about that plane going down. I stayed away from over there. The only time we ever talked about it. Trying to think now, No, she didn't talk about it. She never talked about it. The only thing she mentioned about that plane was that the president called her, who wasn't Nixon at the time. Nixon called her and told her that he's sending some kind of special plane to try and find it. And she stayed away from all that. She used to get mail from nuts telling her that

they knew where he was and all this. You know, what have you since you you got a divorce from her? What year seventy seven? Have you had any comment with her at all or corresponded with her? None at all? Well, I backed out of that. I backed out of that deal. Zeven. That showed me some money. I got my money from him, and I just backed away from that whole deal up there. You know. You see, there's a lot of a lot of pieces to that puzzle that will never be able

to put together, you know. Now, I was out of a target range once, not a target, yeah, at the target range down there on the way to Seward shooting range out Dupotters. I was down there shooting one day, me and Lance and south Spinelli, and we looked up on the hill and Lance come up to me and he says, there's a Volkswagen up there. Guy is watching us. A few minutes later, I glanced up there and I

could see the guy up there watching us. So we got in my car when we got through shooting, and we took off, and sure enough, as we drove by the place he was parked, he waited and he got out and he cold trick on us, and he's way back behind us. So I pulled into a little store and he stopped. So finally I got him into town and I pulled into a shopping center, and sure enough, he's in traffic. You know, he got up a little

closer and he followed me in a shopping center. So I turned around real quick and I pulled up right alongside him to check him out, and he ducked down and he had a beard on him, sucking some I got his license plate number. So we went back to the bar and I called the Department of Motor Vehicles and I said, got a car parked here, a little story. I want to get it towed away. Can you tell me who owns it? And they give it and I called the guy and I says, hey, who are you?

Why are you trailing me? And he was a newspaper reporter and he says, I've got to come down and talk to you. And he came down to the bar. He had he had a fake beard on and he says, well, I heard that Peggy was tied up with the mafia. He says, uh, I was just trying to get a story, man, and he says, da da da and all this stuff. And then it started hitting up there that she was tied up with the mafia. Were you up there, we're up there? You remember that, yep, that she was tied

up with the mob. And well, the reason, I mean, the reason that you know it got to becommon knowledge how you guys got married. You were playing a roll up there too. You know that you were tied in with the family down you know, in Arizona. I mean, tell everybody, Oh yeah, that speculation was out there. Peggy Biggatte tied up at the mob and then you know the and the trip to Arizona and uh and that's the end of side A. We're going to pause here again for a quick ad break. We're back with more

of the transcript. We're on side B of tape two. Time now is thirteen fifty four. I'm going to tell you how she was. She was very cagy along these lines. I stole money out of that barn. I'm talking about if I had a five thousand dollar night, I put five in my pocket cash and Danny would put five. You know, she didn't want to know nothing about that. In the very beginning, I was gonna, you know, chop it up with her a little bit, you know, But she wanted to stay away from that. She stayed away

from ship. She wanted to stay away from see. I'm sure that's the politician of her. Yeah, you know. Like and then as soon as I picked up on that, I stayed I didn't tell her nothing. You know. Now she knew I was doing drugs. I never did any in front of her. My guess would have been, and you know, I guess I'm wrong, you know, more or less I've seen women like that. They get in the nose, habit themselves. No, not her. Never touched it. Okay, I never touched it. I would have guessed she probably had

never happened to him. Pretty hung up on that ship. One time, I had a joint weed and I'm not a big weed guy. When we first started going out, and I was getting high in some weed, and I said he had tried this, and she tried a little bit of it, and she felt real bad about that later about trying that weed. Well, she had six kids. You know. I never tried to get her to do any cocaine. I never did any in front of her. Did she ever know anything about those two two murders

that you were somewhat involved in. No. When I left up there, I called her back one time when I was down here, and she started questioning me about one. She says, who is ov and all this. I said, I don't know what you're talking about. The police had been to her, you know. Now, his mother and sister came up there and ran his picture in the paper and remember that, um vaguely and they put down if anybody's seen this man, contact the holiday in room so

and so, so and so. They were living somewhere in Nevada. I think, you know, I don't know what you guys want to do on that. I want to call him and tell him any you know, if he's down or that's up to you guys. Okay, I'm gonna leave it alone. Yeah we might. But you know, he was involved in a lot of ship well he was. He was an outlaw. Yeah, he was a fucking outlaw. He was. I'm I'm not passing judgment on anybody, but I'm saying, you know, look, as you know, there's certain fucking rules you go by

and certain rules you don't. And if you break the rules, you gotta be ready for the circumstances that goes with life. There's relatively few innocent victims out there that goes with life. I mean myself included, you know. But I can snivel, I can cry. So what man, I'm sucking down. You know, I'm lucky I went this far. I'm lucky I made it this fine. And im I'm fifty four, I'm lucky I made it to fifty four. Now Fowlers, Yeah, I've

known the Fowlers for years. All they're gambling joints. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. You know, had you ever talked to Jean after him? Well, yeah, I've seen Jeans few years. I've seen him up there after that. I used to go to his the joint, the penthouse and as other gambling joints and all that. I mean, did he ever mention anything about what that was? Or no? I didn't. I didn't push him on that. And you know, it's it's I don't know if you well, you know how

business is, Okay, I'm sorry. There's certain things you do you just you just stay away from, you know, you do them, and you just shut up about him and go on, you know seven it and me with drinking, he got drunk, and as far as I know, he might have been bullshitting uh huh, I don't know, you know, I and he might have had his whiskey muzzles all up and been lying to me. You know. That plane might have went down on its own. I don't know. It was cloudy weather. From what I understand, it was

a bad night. Yep. And who knows. It seems funny to me that they never found a piece of it no place. But then again, how do you put a bomb on a fucking plane and now what it's going to blow up? I mean, due time it when it's over the ocean, how do you know it's not going to hit over you know? That's why I think that it might, you know, unless unless Fowler or somebody else had a lot more expertise than I'd ever give him credit for. I don't know where the expertise would have

come in. I think it might have. I don't think it would have been from Fowler. Sure, I don't know. I wouldn't think so. I think they're still up there. I think Jean's still up there. He's still up there, I'm sure. I talked to his brother, which one tom or must have been four three or four years ago. His brother Larry was down here, Larry, and I talked to Yeah, And I talked to Larry here at the place called Barrens. They don't see living down here now

or Larry. Yeah. I think he's an anchorage, got a pawn shop up there. And that listener is the end for now. As I said earlier, we're not sharing the entire transcript. Again, it's seventy one pages long, and not all of it pertains directly to this story. During the interview, in addition to the alleged bombing, Paisley discussed other crimes to including multiple murders. He said he didn't love Peggy

beggatte that he used her for her money. He made other claims about Peggy which I'm not including, and he said he couldn't stand her six kids his step kids, whom he called smart but undisciplined, though he did refer

to Mark Begat as quote a nice kid. So to review the transcript, Paisley claimed that Peggy Beggett met with Joe an Ano in nineteen seventy two, that he Paisley transported a locked suitcase to Alaska shortly thereafter, and that Danny Zivinage, his business partner, later told him that the suitcase contained explosives and that the missing congressman's plane had been bombed. Eleven weeks later, after this initial interview, someone conducted a second, in person follow up interview with Paisley.

According to FBI documents I obtained, which blackout the investigator's name. Initially, I thought the investigator was an FBI agent. Now I'm pretty sure was Tom Davis not someone from the FBI. So too does Davis, who stayed in touch with Paisley. But because Davis can't recall exact dates, he isn't a hundred percent sure. Paisley repeatedly named the same six people as having taken part in or as having knowledge of

the alleged bombing of the congressman's missing plane. One of those six people was Larry Fowler the second Paisley interview. The follow up interview took place on January twenty. Seven. Days later, Larry Fowler was shot to death on a remote road in Alaska. Next time, I'm missing in Alaska, he called Washington, and Washington said, don't do anything. You don't put anybody on this, do not open investigation. Send

everything you got us this week. One task. If you agree that the Alaska Department of Public Safety should look for and release records and tapes pertaining to this case, especially tapes of interview with Jerry Paisley, feel free to contact them. Their email is DPS dot Commissioner dot office at Alaska dot gov. That's DPS dot Commissioner dot Office

at Alaska dot gov. You can reach us by phone at one eight three three m I A tips that's one eight three three six four two eight four seven seven again one eight three three six four two eight four seven seven. Or you can reach us via email at tips at i heeart media dot com. That's tips T I P s at I heeart media dot com.

An important note, none of the people Jerry Paisley claimed took part in or had knowledge of the alleged bombing, Joe Bonano, Joeya Tarola, Danny Zavinich, Jane Fowler, Larry Fowler, or Peggy Baggage were ever charged with or convicted of any crimes tied to any of Paisley's allegations. Peggy Baggatt and Danny Zivanitch declined multiple interview requests. Gene Fowler was unavailable for an interview. Joe Bonano, Joeya Tarola, and Larry

Fowler are dead. Ben Boland is our executive producer. Paul Decan is our supervising producer. Chris Brown is our assistant producer. Seth Nicholas Johnson is our producer. Sam T. Garden is our research assistant. And I'm your host and executive producer

John Wallzac. You can find me on Twitter at at John Wallzac j O n W A l c z a K special thanks to Scott C. Leeds who voiced Jerry Paisley, Joe McCormick who voiced Mike Grimes, Robert Lamb who voiced Dave Tullis, and Seth Nicholas Johnson who voiced Tom Davis. Missing in Alaska is a co production of I Heart Media and Green Forward Media