Podcast To Survive: F1 News and Stuff that DTS Revealed

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Welcome to Miss Apex Podcast. I'm your host, Richard Reddy, but my friends call me Spanners, so let's be friends. Can you believe we are less than seven days away from Formula One action for the Australian Grand Prix, the first race of... 2025 so as often happens at the beginning of the season we're a week away and the drive to survive netflix series has launched now i know a lot of people out there have

negative feelings towards Drive to Survive, especially people who are extant Formula One fans. So we never do a review of Drive to Survive. However... it always throws up some interesting stories. So I want to explore that. And those of you who have been following my Twitter feed or my Blue Sky feed may have seen that I might have fallen out of love with my viewing experience after episode three.

where they talked about George Russell during the Silverstone Grand Prix and the Belgian Grand Prix. And my original plan today was to talk about some F1 news and then tack on a little bit. at the end about drive to survive but actually some really interesting things have come out of it so don't worry if you haven't seen it you don't have to go back and watch it to understand the episode and anything we talk about will very quickly summarize

what drive to survive brought to light. A lot of times you saw things and it was a handy reminder of going, oh, wow. Yeah, that was so long ago. We'd forgotten. that that was part of the context and the flavor of the season. Sometimes it's brand new information, and really those are the things that we're probably going to talk about today. And there is some non-Drive to Survive news as well, and things are really starting to hot up and heat up.

in the Formula One season. So you'll be seeing a lot more of me on TikTok, on Instagram. We'll probably do some kind of patron feed leading up to the Grand Prix or after Friday practice. And we are just going to be... Absolutely pumped and excited for the Australian Grand Prix. It's at 4 a.m. UK time. So that is a bit of silly hours for Matt. Chris, I think, is just outright refusing to get up that early. So me, Brad and Jono.

We'll be getting up at 4am and we'll be doing a Missed Apex race review at around 9.30am GMT. So... Before we get going, let me remind you that we are an independent podcast produced with the kind permission of our patrons and partners. We aim to bring you a race review before your Monday morning commute. We might be wrong, but we're first.

And joined in the shed by Matt Turambit. Hello, Matt. Swinging for the fences with absolutely uninformed opinions. That's what I love about Drive to Survive. I thought you were going to say, I thought you were going to say us. So, I don't think, right. We don't swing for the fences because we're never going for rage bait. I know we get accused of it occasionally. If what we're doing seems like rage bait, we're just accidentally being misinformed and ignorant.

Yeah, and it is true. We probably try to be fairer than we should if we wanted to make a lot of money. It's a short-term thing. So it's a short-term thing. Yes, you could get clicks in the short term. But long term, I just tell you what I think. And, you know, some people don't like that. Some people like not liking what I think. And some people just go, oh, it's nice to have an opinion to listen to on a Monday morning. But there's enough of you guys that disagree with me.

to make up for that and someone i think who disagrees with me for the sake of it is chris stevens hello chris yeah i'm gonna disagree with you right now because i will be getting up for the australian grand prix spanners the problem is is that the day before we've got Super Saturday, the Six Nations finale. No one cares about rugby. It's barely a sport. I absolutely adore rugby. It's...

Also, on the same day is the Sebring 12 hour. I watch other motorsports and I'm a big fan of IMSA. So that is going to be that's going to finish at 2 a.m. And then 4am start for the Australian Grand Prix. I don't really know how I'm going to juggle all this. Yeah, I think just stay up. It's not like you've got a family or a job.

I think I can afford to do this and then just sleep through Sunday. OK, so I think we'll get straight into some of this stuff that stuck out to us. I'm probably going to skip episode one. I'm not really interested in a long drawn out. completely one-sided view of the Christian Horner scandal. I don't think there's too much to talk about from that. But episode, well, oh dear, Matt weighing in with an early disagreement.

I will disagree to the extent. I believe that details the start of the Zack Red Bull beef that we're still seeing this season with the many DRS complaints. Yeah, that might be a theme running through. Oh, and actually, there's something in that episode as well. Horner is walking away from the press conference and calls Zach a rude word. Well, apparently, that isn't what he actually called him.

He called him something far worse. And they got it in post. They got it before next Tuesday. It's the important bit. Do you think they asked him to come back in and re-record that word? Yeah, I was about to ask exactly the same question, like Christian. Little detail here. I'm sure they've got plenty of audio of him saying bad words as it is. So, okay. So for those of you who are maybe, you know, think of yourself as a seasoned F1 fan that Drive to Survive isn't aimed at.

I'm going to point you to one particular episode. So I'm going to start with the positive things I liked from the series, because whether you like it or not, Drive to Survive has placed itself as an important... documentary it's got its own place within formula one a lot of people came to formula one because of drive to survive so it's certainly comment worthy i've got a lot of negative things to say about the series but i'll start with the positives

If you're a hardcore Formula One fan who thinks it's not for you, I genuinely can say jump into episode seven and you'll see something that you think is possibly aimed for you. So episode seven, they changed tone completely. So they change from that kind of soap opera feel where it's like Jersey Shore or Made in Chelsea or The Only Way is Essex, those kind of things where they go, oh, okay.

There was drama in your life around your shopping trip with Daisy. However, let's set it up so that you can have a scene and we can film it. So they have, say, for example, Lando Norris with his genuine friend sat in their apartment. But they've clearly had a conversation, so they'll feed the line to the friend and say, how did you feel about having to let Piastri through? It doesn't sound natural at all. And then Norris gets, it's like a...

A fun way, a slightly different way to get a close-up interview. Yeah, so you can forgive that kind of thing. Zac Brown is just casually talking to his friend over a barbecue and happens to ask exactly the right questions about prioritising teammates. And the best is when you have a couple at a dinner table. So Susie Wolfe just happens to be asking Toto the most insightful questions and the most narratively convenient questions about...

who they might sign after Lewis Hamilton. In fairness, the most believable of those conversations is Susie and Toto. Because Susie absolutely gets it. And Susie also has one of my favourite details. in uh in that conversation they're sort of running through the options you know he got carlos and she goes yeah yeah

Fernando. And she does the face. She scrunches her face up as if to be like, oh, you know when, Spanners, I'm sure this has happened to you. You've come out in a certain outfit and Mrs. Spanners has gone. Okay, that's a little close to the bone. Yes. And her code is, oh, that might have shrunk in the wash. Matt? Well, I'm loving it because...

I watched this with my family. And if you're a serious Formula One fan, I can only encourage you to watch it with someone who's a very casual fan or barely a fan at all. It's so much more fun. But right at the beginning, they were coming out to take their season pictures. Yes, the drivers, yeah. And Alonzo trying to find his spot made my family laugh so hard. They're like, he's so old and grumpy. Look at him.

He's exactly my age. But yeah, so Susie Wolf's reaction to that was, well, he's not going to start a new era with Mercedes. You need to start with someone who's going to have years to carry forward the next. Mercedes story yeah so you know you're right but but all of those things were set piece of course they were like at some point can you ask Lando about Monza and and you get the perfect clip of him going

oh yeah, if I'd have seen that coming, if I'd have known he was going to do that, I'd have got out of the car and I'd have slammed my wing mirror in his face. So yeah, of course that's all set up. But in episode seven, they switch tacks and you go, oh.

They've actually unlocked something brilliant. They issue all the drivers with phones to record little bits for themselves of which they've picked the best bits. There's a lot of interviews of them outside of the track. And I actually felt like with that one...

I got to know a lot of them a little bit better. Obviously, it's the view they want to put across and there's still always a narrative, but at least it was something new and relevant. It wasn't a rehash of something that happened in the season that I already know isn't true. spa episode the silverstone episode so episode seven i think i learned some fantastic things so we got to see a side of gasly that i have always suspected is present

But when he comes across in the interviews, he's very reserved. He always comes across as meek. Whereas in this, he comes across as someone very forthright, very kind of bawdy almost, and a very kind of forward character. And I wish we saw more of that, Gasly.

in normal race weekends see i thought that would have ruined your gasly fandom because he was late to everything always yeah but do you know what i'm married to a musician i spend a lot of time working with a musician i'm very used to that that's fine i've totally Forgiving that kind of thing. So, you know, then you had Leclerc, who was much more relaxed and much more mature than he comes across on a Grand Prix weekend. And so that's the kind of content where you want to go, OK.

This is something new and interesting at least. So there's two drivers who had things on there that surprised me a little bit. So, you know, I've been slightly critical of George Russell and Alex Albon, not as drivers, but as people.

which isn't a very nice thing. Like, who am I? I shouldn't have the right to do that. But we talk about Formula One an awful lot and some things are going to come through. The first one is Alex Albon. So to me, Alex Albon always comes across as a little bit entitled.

A little bit like everything bores him. It's a little bit throw away. But this side, because he featured heavily in this episode, he's just, he's silly. He's just a silly guy who throws things out. And being silly is fine. I'm silly. Chris is definitely silly. And I go, oh, okay. Somehow Drive to Survive brought out a side of Alex Albon that maybe in the context of a Formula One paddock, he comes across a bit annoying sometimes. But in that, I was like, oh, oh, I get it. He's just...

You know, he's just he's trying to make everything fun. And it was quite endearing. It was. I loved his line. I know a monk. You know, the whole family laughed at that one. But but I think what was really genius about it. And I'm curious to get someone younger than 800 me opinion on this. I think giving them phones.

Because they post stuff on social media all the time. Anyway, got them to maybe unwind and be a little more genuine. And I think that was kind of a genius move by the producers if that was the intent. Well, you come across. this sort of conundrum where there's so much social media content these days of the drivers. How are you going to start to show anything in this documentary series that we can't already see?

from a team video where you know they're making pancakes for example where you know the ones that are designed to get the personality across there's far too many Yeah, far too many features from Sky or F1 TV or any interview now. They go, how are we going to make this different? Okay, with an omelette on your head.

Tell us about the deepest, darkest fears that keep you up at night. And you go, ah, the health of my children. And you go, okay, that's not, okay, we're scratching around. We're a little desperate here. But yeah. I enjoyed that episode. I would urge people who maybe didn't want to give the series a chance, go and jump into that and see how you feel. Now, there's two...

Two real big points I think came out of that. I want to talk about Daniel Ricciardo's, the end of Daniel Ricciardo's career, because I think we heard him say things on Drive to Survive that he's not said. And the other thing is some positive... And also enlightening things about George Russell. But Chris, you're trying to jump in. Well, I was going to steer it towards another episode, but let's talk about Daniel Ricciardo because that's definitely, and Helmut Marko even kind of said as much.

as well uh where they clearly wanted a daniel ricardo redemption story which they never got they got the end of daniel ricardo yeah so here we go i'm gonna read the line here So this is him alone to camera. And he says, and this is after Silverstone, by the way, so lots of interchangeable conditions. As soon as the intermediate period started, he was dropping down the field.

apologizing the whole time saying this is all i've got this is all i've got and then afterwards span can i just quickly interject with a brief bit of context which is that it's likely a lot of the team radio and maybe even that interview wasn't straight after Silverstone. But I understand the point you're about to make. Excellent. Thanks for that, Chris. Okay, so...

As depicted in Drive to Survive, he said in those tricky conditions. So I guess it must be other tricky conditions, Chris. I guess I don't want to admit it. I believe I'm still willing to put it on the line. But maybe I asked the question now, whereas I didn't. I don't want to say it because it makes me feel too vulnerable. Is it worth the risk? But it opens you up to weakness. So unless this has been absolutely hacked and slashed.

to death, and he would come out and say, I didn't mean it like that. He clearly seems to be saying there are some elements of motorsport where you say to yourself, do I want to risk it? Is it worth it? And he continues to say, you have nothing. At 21, you don't ask the question, but now you're a bit older, you do. And I think from a personal point of view, I think that's okay. I think it's absolutely okay to admit you don't want to put yourself through certain risk levels.

I had a chance to drive some Rotex carts. And I was like, no, I'm not. In fact, I think, Chris, you might have done it instead of me. And I was like, no. I did, yes. I was thinking that level of car, that level of speed right now when I'm a dad. And my family really need me. I'm not going to do it.

If I was 50, when the kids have gone to university, maybe I can start thinking about doing stuff like that then. And then within five minutes of getting on track, Alex Van Geen smashes it into a wall, tumbles across it. You go, yeah. That's not where I want to be in my life right now. In Genesee's defense, the wheel fell off. He didn't bing it into a wall. Well, we don't know. Is he a tire loosener?

That's the question you've got to ask about fancy. It's a whole drama about that. Even any rental car, it takes me a period of time to adjust to the fact that, oh, I'm flying around the track. So for me personally, at this point in my life, motorsport... There's a definite limit of how much risk I want to take. But in my previous life, I was really YOLO for huge parts of my life. You guys don't know.

corporal spanners or shockingly briefly sergeant spanners you don't know that guy that guy made decisions that would terrify me now and not only do i not know if i would make those decisions again i don't know if i'm capable of making those decisions again and you have to remember that guys like daniel ricardo they just got put into karting as a fun hobby they follow it through as a kid and then suddenly

You have an awakening as an adult because I don't think teenagers, teenagers have got mushy brains. They don't know what life is. They don't know what's at stake. And then you get to 30 and you go, oh, my God. I risked my current life so many times, and I bet it happens to a lot of racing drivers. Magnussen, he's got 17 kids now, hasn't he? And he suddenly goes, if something happened to me...

Not only do they lose the financial support, but they lose the emotional support of a dad. The family breaks up. There's so much more to risk. And I think it's OK for Daniel Ricciardo. And I think we should possibly normalise it a bit. for racing drivers to say, yes, I've had this element of danger and risk in my life completely normalised and that was decided for me.

No one, these kids aren't capable of making these decisions. And I've told the story a few times on the Patreon pod, but I had, I think my seven-year-old and nine-year-old racing around a go-kart track and they smashed into each other. You know, my daughter deliberately drove my son off track.

My son absolutely did not care that my daughter was sideways on track and tried to get through, hit the brakes, couldn't avoid her and hit her dead on T-bone because they just didn't know. They don't know what they're risking.

So I would just like to, I know I'm off on one a bit now, aren't I? But I would like to normalise drivers being able to go, I've had a really good career, but I've just had a bit of an epiphany. I've just had a bit of an awakening. This is blinking dangerous and I'm not 100% sure. that it's for me. Maybe I'm being old, but that, that makes me think immediately of a Nicky Lauda. Yeah. Where he had his accident and he just, and I thought it was actually one of the most courageous things.

To be able to go, no, actually, I think this is too dangerous. And so, yeah, I'm just not going to do that thing. And even Ferrari offered to tell the press that there was a mechanical problem with the car to cover Nicky. And he said, no, no, no, tell them what really happened. And Tim Rudd points out, I think you can see it in Stroll. He doesn't look like he's having fun. Yeah, it's hard to disagree with that. And, you know, that gives us...

Pause to think about the Alonso quote when he's overtaking Schumacher and he says, I knew Schumacher would back out because he's got a wife and kids. And I think there are genuinely some drivers who have a genuine... yolo attitude you only live once and and if death comes it comes but i think that's rare and i think that's a diagnosable condition so I know people don't want to hear my political views, but you look at the Isle of Man TT. Matt, are you familiar with the Isle of Man TT in the US?

Does that make it over there? Yeah, no, I know exactly what that is. Okay, so here's my personal feeling. You can like the Isle of Man of TT you want, and it's undoubtedly an incredibly courageous thing to do, but the death rate is high. And you've had people within the Isle of Man TT.

talking about how you have excited families there watching, and then they have to explain that dad's not coming home, he's died. And I wonder, do the people doing that genuinely accept the statistical risk of death? They do. They do? I think it's completely different to Formula One because... Chris, I'm going to disagree. If you take your family and kids to go and watch you, you are not accepting the significant risk that you're dying that day.

It's not like in Formula One, though, where we've had one death in the last 25 years. There are multiple deaths every single year at the TT. Yes. And it's even... there are even father sons and brothers who compete in it together like in the sidecars for example so i think they do just have a different attitude to it and they're also

A lot of them start at a later age than people are put into go-karts. I personally... Not like 25, but like... in their teens yeah i mean i'd be curious i'd really want to know what percentage of those riders really understand the statistical risk but yeah i mean the live chat are saying that yeah there's comments I will guarantee you that every one of those persons thinks to themselves, that's the other people in that column. Didn't make it off the island on their two feet.

And that's pretty normal when you compete in things at an extremely high level. And I think it's normal, too. And I don't know. Did you get this sense? The whole Ricardo thing. I really loved him in the show because he was so... honest about what he was feeling. I could very much relate to that. But I felt from the beginning, from when they put him in at Silverstone, that this was really just...

It was just Red Bull saying, look, if we just get him in a car and let him drive some, he'll get to be good enough. We can put him back in with Max. And I just think he never really recovered his confidence from the McLaren years. And that's. That's why he understands that risk in a different way, because he doesn't have that same, oh, yeah, I got this feeling that the other drivers do. A couple of clarifications there. Thank you, Live Chat, for catching us up.

calling us up when we just skip ahead with things. So Isle of Man TT, as EJ puts it, is a race on the roads of the Isle of Man on motorbikes, 300 kilometres an hour on... mile and a half 1.5 meter wide roads with stone walls around them so absolutely no safety measures you know you go for it as if you're on a racetrack but if anything goes wrong they go it goes wrong

quickly and there's there's multiple deaths per year the other thing hit someone's house yeah you could hit someone's house or their brick wall and the other thing people are pointing out older than me even older than matt even stewart in there is saying they do remember a time when formula one did have have regular deaths but as much as i you know you want to say okay the honesty from daniel ricardo there is commendable

But is it an actual hindrance? So he's pointing out as it's a real vulnerability. It clearly wasn't when he was younger. And if that is something that he's feeling towards his late 20s, you are basically becoming aware of your mortality. and your vulnerability and your risk-reward formulations change, that's a very reasonable thing to do, especially when you're 21, you've got nothing to lose because you don't know what life is. But when you're 30 and you're a millionaire like Daniel Ricciardo...

or you're a 44-year-old and I'm rich in other ways, like a loving wife that lets me do what I want sometimes and kids that occasionally do chores, then you go, oh, suddenly I've got a lot to lose. I've got loads to lose. I'm not going to take risks now. But does that mean you either have to have the enduring ability to compartmentalise that fear, like Alonso has, like Hamilton has, like I think our friend Brad Philpott has, to be honest.

Or it's a young man's game or a young person's game where you kind of go, OK, you can do that whilst you've been raised to be a carter. But as soon as you start to see the other things in life and it takes the edge off, you have to go, well, that is like a recurring back injury or that is like... age-related fitness issues it's a mind related issue that is just going to limit your career i think we're the wrong people to ask that why is that

because what is the well i don't know about matt well matt you used to like velodrome and stuff you've done more dangerous i've done both road and velodrome racing on bicycles i was licensed yes so you're asking me what's the most dangerous thing i've done chris is it

Is that what you're asking me? Well, yeah, but you were the one asking the question. Okay, so former soldier Richard Reddy, is that what you're asking me? You're saying none of us have done? No, you were the one asking the question. So I said you're asking the wrong people. Oh, right. So I asked myself.

If you want to answer it yourself, then go ahead. I actually, I have a really good one because I live in New York and I rode my bike. I was a bike messenger first before I raced in case you want to know exactly how. how little I cared for my life in my early 20s. Wait, you were still in New York? When I was in New York. That is more dangerous. And I rode tens of thousands of miles.

on the roads of New York. And I had a friend who's a trumpet player. Wife, kids, bought a house out in Kensington. Ditmas Park, actually. And if you're in Brooklyn, you'll get that. But one day he said to me in a rehearsal, he's like, he's like, how safe do you feel riding on the road in New York? And I said, not at all.

It's gotten a lot more dangerous. The cars are bigger. People are driving a lot faster and they pay a lot less attention. He goes, yeah, because he commuted to work by bike. He says, I've given up commuting by bike because I just think it's too dangerous. You do hit those milestones and everybody has their limit. And then when you run out of that, whatever that mental attitude is, then you're just done.

So I think the next person who might be vulnerable to that, who's still young enough to not be, is George Russell. Do you think you know F1 better than us? Prove it with Gridlock, the sponsor of this episode of Missed Apex Podcast. Gridlock is the new and free unofficial F1 predictions app that lets you go head to head with friends and the whole F1 community. Whether you're a seasoned F1 fanatic or just looking for a new way to enjoy the race.

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So George Russell featured really heavily in Drive to Survive. And so episode three, you can see his race to lose Silverstone. Nothing to do with Lewis Hamilton, his race to lose. And when he won in Spa. And then nothing else bad happened after the end of the race. He just won. He made a brilliant tyre call and just won. Just won in Spa. But he featured heavily in this. And I assume his team will have approved it. It was really, really honest.

He was willing to show a genuinely vulnerable side, both mentally and physically. And I really want to commend that because I don't think everyone would be open to it because there's a lot of toxic masculinity in motorsport and that kind of thing. And so we've seen a couple of moments from George Russell where he doesn't shy away from how scary it is, how scary it is. So, you know, you see the moment in Australia. Was it Australia where he was?

He was across the track on the side of the car in a position where a Formula One car is not at all designed to be in any way safe after a blind corner. And you heard the fear there. And that was genuine. And I think that's important for us as Formula One fans to hear that level of fear of this is a really bad situation and there's nothing I can do about it right now. I need help. Please get a red flag out.

That reminds us of the stakes of motorsport and the racing. But the other thing was actually the being massively overheated in Singapore. So in Singapore, his body temperature rose very highly. He jumped into a cold bath immediately, which didn't seem like the smartest thing to me. But then they shut the door and he's talking about how his body reacted very, very badly to that. And I think as Formula One fans, most people won't know what it's like.

to be in that kind of level of heat that doesn't escape. So I'm asking the right person now, Chris, because I'm going to ask myself. Is that all right? Is that all right? So, for example, any ex-soldier you speak to will have done NBC training, nuclear biological and chemical warfare.

And you're wearing these suits that are lined with charcoal, that are very heavy. You've got a respirator on where you can only get about 50 or 60% of your oxygen. And you're having to physically run around, you know, doing your war games and going...

shooting everyone and running around. So that kind of suffocating heat where it just doesn't go away for hour after hour is what the drivers are experiencing in Singapore. And I will attest to the fact that it's something that is so extreme that sitting at home... You can't get a feeling similar to that and understanding how claustrophobic it was. And George Russell was pretty graphic, and I'm sure he allowed that to be shown, how graphic and how much suffering he went through.

And then we saw it again. I don't think this is in Drive to Survive, but we saw it with the drivers getting out of the car in Qatar. And there's a lot of talk about how Formula One drivers aren't pushing it. It's not extreme. But you do have these two events where we've seen the extreme. physical limits and i tell you what there was one look on russell's face that i related to when he turned to his partner and he said i feel sick no no i i feel sick and there's a moment where you realize you are

You are expendable to a certain extent because the people you work for have put you through that. And there's a whole attitude of people going, well, it's a man's game. Just toughen up. Yeah, it's a bit hard, but you earn millions. Get on with it. And you kind of I had a similar feeling on NBC exercise. Make a long story short. But, you know, a guy just dropped and I took too long. Slightly my fault. Took too long because of toxic masculinity again. Eventually got help. Called in.

And I said, we need to knock this on the head. People are going to drop like flies. And I had a piece of paper pointed at me that said, technically, we can lose 3% of you before we have to bring this to a close. And I think...

Russell seemed to have that same look of like, oh my God, like ultimately they will put us through this. We are expendable. And from a personal point of view, I go, do we need to do that? Do we need to have boil in the bag Formula One drivers? And I'm hoping that air con stuff.

starts to come in that they were talking about post-guitar. Well, it's been approved for this season. You'll be happy to know. And this was actually one of my great questions, watching the Singapore episode, because I wondered. Because I didn't see the other drivers looking like that. I wondered if Mercedes had simply gotten something, gotten some of their maths wrong, if you will, regarding the amount of cooling that the drivers would need.

Or if it was a choice that George himself made and then obviously regretted. But yeah, the driver cooling is a big issue because of the Qatar thing. And it's always been a problem in Singapore. Everyone's usually been pretty exhausted at the end of it. I wouldn't be surprised if there were more drivers who had that issue. It's just Netflix happened to be filming a Mercedes on that particular weekend. So he's the one who ends up, you know.

being the one who gets ushered into a room and the girlfriend shuts the door on the camera while he has what sounds like a panic attack, which upsets a lot of people that was left in. Why did that upset people? Because they didn't like the fact that... he was having a panic attack on camera and they kept filming it oh well he must have this is what i'm saying i think no no well i i he must have approved it and a

Having panic attacks is a perfectly normal part of the human experience and nearly being boiled alive is a perfectly good reason to have a panic attack. I agree, right? There's just a lot of upset people online like there always are. um and and to be honest yeah i when i first saw it my first thought wasn't panic attack because it's right after he says i don't feel well you know i'm i'm sure it might have been a panic attack related to how he was feeling about the heat

But I'd like to think that George approved that being in the episode. And so therefore, we should treat that as a more unprecedented insight.

into into these drivers yeah honestly i think a lot of these drivers came across really well in that episode they came across as much more more human um and i think yeah things like motorsport being scary that should be that should be more normal right that should be more relatable unless you want completely unhinged characters who don't understand you know danger and don't understand consequences because then it's almost like

Yeah, kids that never, never learned. Kids that never learned to understand consequences. I don't think we want that. I think we want humans in the car. Especially when one of the biggest struggles that Formula One has is trying to convince... casual fans or non-F1 fans that these guys are athletes and that it is a difficult job. You get people like, oh, it's just driving. How hard can it be? Well, it turns out it's quite difficult.

Okay, Matt, what stood out to you with Drive to Survive? So I've done my bit on the Singapore episode. What stood out to me? I've caught him unprepared, so he's going to repeat the question for a while. No, you've not.

I mean, I have one. Yeah, let's go. Yeah, it's a live show. It happens. For me, the thing I learned through Drive to Survive, and this is never... heard a rumor about this or anything like that but it was the uh it was the science episode where he's ready to sign on the dotted line in Barcelona with Williams and there was the murmur that he was going to be signing

that deal that weekend and you see james vows is there and the pr team are there with that bottle of champagne ready to celebrate and they've got the photographer and you know they're closing the blinds and everything oh make sure no one sees us and the sciences Stand them up. Do you think that was real? Do you think that was real? Right? I don't know. Well, it seemed pretty genuine, especially when you've got James on the phone to presumably the board.

And he's going, why isn't Carlos trying to... And then they point the cameras at him and he tells them politely to go away with a hand gesture. And then you get Carlos in the seat and he says, well, Flavio called me. And... Signs to Alpine was not ever a murmur that came across in news media. I even checked with a couple of journalists I know, and they said, no, that wasn't a thing we ever really heard, because it was always Williams-Audi. after Mercedes and Red Bull Avenue was closed.

Yeah, that's interesting. So if you didn't watch the episode, you see William Staff getting champagne ready because this was going to be the sign on the dotted line moment. And I guess they were like, well, we actually we've had one more phone call. So it's not unreasonable to go. Well, we thought we had to.

realistic options and and now we've just had another realistic option come in i don't think i don't think anyone would be like ah how dare you speak to someone else of course you know people would be able to speak to people but I wonder how we feel about Sainz being a replacement for Ocon, I guess, effectively. One thing that Drive to Survive kept doing that keeps away people who watch the full season...

is building it all up as tension. So saying, who will Carlos Sainz sign for? We have absolutely no idea. There's so much. We know. We know he signed for Williams. and so if you're coming in and finding that on netflix raw having not seen the season that is great it was a little bit trying for existing fans like that but you have claire williams going flavio briatore if he wants something he gets it

If Flavio says it's going to happen, it's going to happen. If he wants his driver, he's going to get his driver. And then 10 seconds later, Carlos Sainz signed for Williams on the way back to his home planet. That was brilliant. Actually, Mia in the chat has also just reminded me that Fred Vassa also said...

Yeah, we did the timing of Lewis's announcement deliberately. Yeah, oh, that was a big one. That was a revelation. I enjoyed it. Yeah, but that's something we were asking at the time. We're going like, why now? And Fred's like, ha, I did it. it was all me because i assumed that like some media got hold of it and then so suddenly then they were in like oh we need to do this before anyone else says it

That's normally the reaction, but to just sit there and go, yeah, I masterminded the whole thing. You don't actually often get admissions like that. It was me, I did that. Just as a psychological weapon. Because that caused, of course, a lot of drama for Hamilton. Destabilized Mercedes. Yeah, really, though, they didn't need destabilizing. If you're going to destabilize anyone, you needed to destabilize McLaren.

Agreed. I think he was correct in saying that he did it mainly to inoculate his own team against that, because otherwise it would have been announced halfway through the season, and it would have been a total surprise to Carlos, and that would have given him more... issues to deal with. Whereas if he leaks it, Carlos knows ahead of the season and he has a chance to sort of price it into his performance. And actually.

You know, it worked pretty well as a motivator for Carlos. I will say the family became a big Carlos fan watching DTS. Carlos came across very, very well. in the Carlos Sainz episode. So just touching on there, because it's Flavio Briatore, who's been doing all the deals for Alpine, and Tim Rudd, this is Tim Rudd's words, and he lives at 1 Acacia Avenue.

And when he eats a banana, he turns into Banana Man. But he has said Flavio is a cheap narcissist and should never have been allowed back into the sport. So that's Tim's words, not mine. I think maybe he didn't order his... number two driver to crash into a wall deliberately to cause a safety car so they could take advantage of it and win a race with Fernando Alonso. So...

He apparently, according to DTS, was exonerated completely. And you know how they put the fake news stories in? I'll get Matt to correct the record here. But the fake news... voiceover thing was and Flavio Briatore here has been cleared of all charges and he definitely didn't do it and then it went to an interview of Flavio Briatore who basically said I'm too rich and powerful it doesn't matter what I did I can just do whatever I want

And to some extent, I am on board with the I can do whatever I want all the time because there's no real ultimate rules in life. So, you know, do what you want, Flavio. What really happened, Matt? What really happened was he was banned from the sport and from all FIA motorsport entirely by the World Motorsport Council.

He appealed that decision to a court in France, which overturned, I will point out here, and this is where I feel like they're being a little bit shifty. They overturned the ban on him. They never found that he didn't do it. And the FIA vowed to appeal that. And then instead of it getting to the next court up the ladder, a negotiated settlement happened between the FIA and Briatore.

And that's where we are today. I mean, so, so, I mean, look, you can say a lot of things and a lot of people like, well, look, F1 is full of nothing but people who cheat and are narcissists. And this is absolutely true. But I think categorically there's a difference between I cheated by having super flexible fuel line between the high pressure pump and the fuel pump.

And I told my driver to crash, potentially costing him his life and other people their lives just so I could win a race. I just feel like there's a difference there. That ought to be respected. And the other thing that occurred to me, and this is especially because, you know, Johnny Herbert getting kicked out being associated with gambling. Well, do you want someone who would do something like that?

In the sport, when there's so much gambling money floating around, I don't know. I'm just asking questions here. I'm not telling people what to think. There were comments in the live chat. For the second time, I've just got to go. There are comments in the live chat. If you want to join the live chat and our patron discord and the occasional patron only streams and an ad free feed.

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Okay, so I'm looking at the notes and we do have a lot of news stories. I was tempted to divert onto Johnny Herbert's outpouring and opinions of... Why he was sacked. Should we take a little diversion down that road and a little bit of FIA chat? What do you think, guys? I think FIA chat in general. Yeah. Because it's not been a particularly good week. Steaming hot mess. There's a power grab. This is like...

at the death of Alexander the Great. And now all the generals are scrambling around to claim territory because he didn't give an heir, did Alexander the Great. Do you know what he said about his heir? About who should take over from him? Do you not know Christopher? I thought you went to university. He said the strongest. No, I didn't go to university. He said the strongest should overtake. And that's basically what's happened in the post-Todd era. The strongest shall overtake. Susie Wolfe.

apparently launching a bid to be the new FIA president. No, that immediately got shut down. Did it? Yeah. So it was a bit of a murmur, I think, by Italian media. There you go. How out of character. Well, the thing is, normally, I know we've talked a lot on this show, particularly when it comes to Alpine, about things that are like, hey, when they say it's not going to happen, that means it's going to happen. In this case...

this is not going to happen. The wording of the denial was very like, nah, I ain't going to get involved in... in all of this mess, which is a shame because I think Susie would make an excellent president. There are still many questions about who is going to be running up against MBS for the FIA presidency at the end of this year.

But there's a circling. There's a circling around now as people are searching for anyone but Mohammed bin Saliham candidate. There's blood in the water. In the FIA, yeah. And there's a lot of now negative briefing. going on against him and i wouldn't be surprised from a business point of view if that is coming from other people with business interests but matt there was a kickoff event where the head of motorsport uk was denied

entry to a FIA vote. Yeah, so just to be clear about this, this would be, I believe, Dave Richards, who's head of Motorsport UK, was attending the World Motorsport... Congress, in wherever it was, was told that he had to sign a new updated confidentiality agreement or he would be denied entry. Now, for those of you who don't know, the WMSC is where all the decisions...

actually get made. So if it says the FIA is doing this, that, or the other, it's because everybody in the WSC voted on it and it got passed. And he refused because he looked at the terms and, um... This is what he said in his open letter to the world. One. First reason he didn't sign it, everything was now considered confidential without any qualification, preventing me from necessarily sharing what I consider to be relevant information.

Two, the FIA at its own discretion could decide if anyone breached the terms of the new confidentiality agreement with no process or frame of reference. And three, there was an immediate fine of $50,000. euros for any breach and a threat of undisclosed damages on top. And he basically said this amounts to a gag order. I'm talking about anything at all for any reason.

And he got in touch with his lawyers instead. And so that leads us to the next leg of the story when you're ready. The stuff that really scares me about what apparently was the details of this. of this NDA. It's the authoritarian, we have the right to just say, you did this, and we're going to fine you, and we're going to ban you, and you have no case against us whatsoever. Like something from a dystopian movie. And it is a theme across other complaints about this era.

presidential term uh for mbs bearing in mind all the stories last year about everyone at the fia being fired left right and center the war on swearing and many, many, many, many other things. And ultimately...

Dave Richards' complaint is that this is not the FIA president that we voted for and were promised. Just like every single election in the history of forever, the things that are promised during the election time don't end up getting... delivered during the actual what term but uh in the case of this we can actually argue that things have got a bit too far right um this is not like saying we're going to triple the economy and then you only end up doubling it. There are many, many issues.

You almost brought it home, Chris. I know. I know. I was going to stick the landing. I'm going to triple the economy. I'm going to triple it. We're going to do so much tripling. No. Is that even how economies work? Can you triple an economy? I have no clue. This is why I don't talk about politics, but I will talk about FIA presidential campaigns. Stop laughing at me. Sorry. I just thought, yes, you can at patty power, but nevermind.

Yes, exactly. At this point, the point's gone way, way out of the mark, so you may as well pick up the rest. Do you want some rescuing there, Chris? I enjoyed what I was leading the point to where I wanted it to go. I enjoyed the floundering. It was wonderful. So, yeah, there's clearly been, you know, there's a power struggle now. And it's worth reiterating that.

the vote is by the motorsport organisations around the world. So it doesn't matter how much, I know, people in Australia and Britain think that Mohamed Rensselaer isn't doing good things. If he's popular to... enough of even the smaller motorsport organizations he can get back in so the point i was driving towards was that this particular meeting where he ended up being banned uh from among many other the uk delegate yes

It was one where they were discussing restructuring of the World Motorsport Council, quite a key event. And also there was the money that was being redistributed from... the president's transport fund towards uh grassroots motorsports now does not being in attendance to this meeting mean you're not getting that money oh that's interesting

That's literally a question. I do not know the answer. Chris is heavily implied. No. Entirely legal, of course, except for. And this is where I think we're really getting back to. the second part of his letter, where he casually says, we asked for answers about this. We've not received answers about this. And if we don't receive answers about this, our lawyers are going to proceed with legal action.

His claim in the letter is that the FIA have actually violated their own statutes. And if they have, then that means potentially all of the decisions taken at this latest vote and potentially other ones as well.

may not be valid. And in a presidential election year, we're looking at, it's happened twice before. We had FISA FOCA, and we had FIA and FODA. We've had two wars where they've been... breakaways threatened but if enough asns which are the automobile clubs that make up the world motorsport council are unhappy enough we could be looking at essentially a civil war in the fia the

statute in question that Motorsport UK claims the FIA broke is that no member will be banned from a meeting. Correct. That's exactly what has happened. So it's a pretty hard case to argue. This all happening in an election year, there's no doubt that the second half of this term for MBS has been mired in controversy. So FIA related controversy as well is Johnny Herbert, former F1 driver, was sacked towards the end of the season as an FIA steward.

and has been, I guess, finally vocal about it. So the given reason that he was sacked was because he was also a hired pundit for a gambling firm. Now, nothing illegal about that. People can have their own opinions on gambling. So mine's a bit mixed in which I love pouring a fine scotch and having a gamble. I will do that all day long. I definitely can stop when the fun stops.

Because I don't have a propensity to be addicted to gambling, which I guess is lucky considering how much fun I find it. But the gambling industry, in my opinion, does depend on people who do get addicted to gambling and do poor life changing. amounts of uh of money into gambling and and and therefore that that really doesn't paint them in a good light and that is pretty contemptible so i've got my opinion on that and some people will go well boo you're you're

going for a gambling firm, you're working for a gambling firm, that's not appropriate, therefore you shouldn't be an FIA steward. I don't agree with that particularly. I think he's taking a paid job. So you can argue about conflicts of interest, whether you should have another job. As an FIA steward, well, other FIA stewards do have other jobs. I don't think it's a full paying job. And I also, in these positions, you say, do you only want to hire people who can afford to not get paid?

because that narrows down the talent pool for these kind of things. So there's a lot of opinions about whether he should have been sacked or not or whether he should be a steward or not. And I'm a Johnny Herbert fan as a driver, and I've been a fan of his as a pundit. So it may surprise you to hear me say, I don't think Johnny Herbert should be a pundit. I should be, sorry, that's wrong. I don't think Johnny Herbert should be a steward.

That's different to saying I agree with the reasons why he was sacked. Because he'd been a pundit for that gambling firm for ages. So why suddenly did he get sacked after... stewarding harshly against Max Verstappen. Now, he is very, very clearly intimating that the Verstappen camp kicked up a stink, and therefore, that is why he ended up, you know, they ended up going, oh, well, what can we find to get rid of him?

this gambling thing is actually a little bit on edge. So he's clearly implied that that is wrong. That's wrong if a race team can put pressure on the FIA and then the FIA follow up on that and get rid of a referee. However, should the Verstappens be unhappy about Johnny Herbert being a steward? 100%. Because Johnny Herbert has been incredibly vocal against...

the Verstappen as a driver. He's been, he has demonstrated bias, which is fine if you're a pundit. I think it's okay. It's okay for me to demonstrate a bias openly. If you're a football referee and you support Southampton, you're not going to be refereeing any Southampton games. People have bias, that's fine. But if you've outwardly demonstrated that, I think I would be unhappy if I was Max Verstappen, if they then replaced Johnny Herbert with Damon Hill.

I go, well, no, that's bad. So I don't actually disagree with Johnny Herbert not being a steward, but the mechanisms by which that sacking came around, I find a little mucky. Sorry, Matt. Thanks for your patience. No, no, no. I'm enjoying you running through your laundry list there. To me, it's a technical thing. It's a pretext. The gambling thing was a pretext. And it really actually does frustrate me.

frustrate me a lot because as a pundit, I felt like whatever his weaknesses might have been when I was getting this guy commentary, he always seemed to have an instinct for understanding the correct thing. from a driving point of view. And he was willing to stand up and tell people he thought they were wrong about stuff. Yeah, no, I like him as an entertainer and as a knowledge source, yeah. Yeah, and so I think as a steward, I think it's perfectly fine.

If I'm an umpire, if I'm a referee and I referee the same league, I see all the same players. And eventually I see the same players committing the same fouls that seem kind of dirty to me. I don't think there's a real issue. And having a sense of, wow, that person is going to be dirty if they think they can get away with it, which is where I put Herbert. But I also don't have a problem with saying...

Well, no, actually, if you're making decisions that can affect the finishing order of a Formula One race, maybe it's not a good idea to get money from a gambling company. Matt, I hadn't thought of it quite from that point of view. No. Okay, that's true. That's the main argument, isn't it? No, no, no, that's true. But he was... Why then? It's the timing.

So, yes, I don't mind that at all. It was a pretext, but it's an ethical thing that the FIA should address. They should say if you have X, Y or Z or Z to cater to your linguistic. whatever so yeah then then no you you're not allowed to be a steward because this we consider this a conflict of interest yes i don't disagree with that missing at all i don't agree with that at all but but

There was a period of time where he was stewarding with that conflict of interest where it wasn't an issue. And then it's a pretext because the Versappens were unhappy is sort of what we've all understood to be the case. Yeah. All agreed. But the solution to this is start paying your stewards so that they don't have to take other jobs. There's been a lot of talk over the last few months. Are you going to rate those tracks, Chris?

The end of last season, right, there was a lot of talk about let's have professional stewards, a smaller rotation so that decisions are more consistent. I'm not saying that the same group of three stewards should do all 24 races. That is an awful schedule to give someone. But if you have the same pool and make sure that they are being looked after.

Because, well, first of all, you'll get more people interested in Dunix, right now the volunteers, and you will hopefully at the same time eradicate these situations. Yeah. And they're just going to say who's going to pay for it. And that's literally what he said. Although apparently we can find money for grassroots motorsports organizations around the world who may or may not be voting for me because I found extra money for them, which I'm not saying that's the case at all.

But I think the issue here is all of the FIA is archaic. It comes out of the 50s and 60s, out of rich people having fun with their hobbies. And none of it has really properly been updated. And one of the main reasons that MBS got elected in the first place was he promised to update a lot of this stuff. And instead of doing what people expected.

He's gone the other way. And this is why we are where we are right now. We're seeing from the FIA them really trying to churn out some good PR lately because it has been a difficult... few months and so have you noticed um since cadillac was very formally officially announced yes we are going to be entering as the 11th team in formula one in 2026 how it's all

The FIA has paved the way for Cadillac to enter into Formula One. And in fairness, it's largely true because they were the ones who gave the green light. Formula One were the ones who initially said no. And that was just after Matthew Carter was on this show saying, by the way, Cadillac haven't officially been, you know, it's not really been agreed. And by the way, still now, the fee hasn't been agreed because there's no Concord agreement.

Oh, that's a good point. I was going to say, because when someone told me, oh, Cadillac's getting announced today, and I went, what do you mean it's getting announced today? And I went... they're being announced as the team like they've already no no no beyond that but no what it was is that everything had been commercially agreed in principle yeah yeah uh but it just feels weird that a

The first story that got confirmed after Matthew Carter, I go, have we got a mole here? And then the second one was Matthew Carter was talking about the profits for Las Vegas. And then they also issued a statement on... The relative success of Vegas and admitting some losses, but then really being clear about what the benefits were and how they're going to gain otherwise. And that all came within like three days of the Carter episode. And I went, I...

I know coincidences do happen. So it was a funny one. I don't subscribe to coincidence. There's no such thing as coincidences, except for that they happen all the time. No, no, it would be more of a coincidence if the... if F1 and FYA didn't release stories that explicitly counter Miss Apex stories twice in a week occasionally. I think I've done the law of big numbers correctly there. Matt, Niels Wittich.

Yes. Former F1 race director stepped down with three races to go. Step down. Step down. So privately.

In the same way that certain people fall out of windows by accident, yes. All right. Well, let's keep it light. So you said to me, I've got some stuff on Neil's Village, but I can't share it on the show. So I at least would like the... listeners to know that you're holding out on them are you going to continue to hold out on them and me by the way well i mean again i don't want to be the person saying things because look

I have been occasionally called a journalist and gotten to go to races that way, but I'm not a trained journalist. I didn't go to school for journalism. Even I know that usually when you say certain things, you need to have multiple sources and confirm them. And this is not the position in which I find myself. But I'm just going to maybe ask the hypothetical question.

Would you find it surprising if I had heard somewhere that possibly one of the reasons why Mr. Wittich, who publicly remains without reason for being let go, was... Maybe let go because he didn't do something someone asked him to do because he said it wasn't that person's business for him to be changing things. Got it. He was asked by Mohammed bin Salim to change.

decision and he said no because that's not in your remit as fya president that sounds like filthy gossip and i refuse to uh i refuse to promote it okay now we need

Now we need the reason why he sacked the replacement F2, F3 race director before she ever even did a session. And the head of ethics, was it? Or the head of... something oh don't even get me started i i kind of left that one when i was running through the list of controversies earlier i kind of left that one out yeah that's possibly the worst one because there was an investigation into wrongdoing and the person running the investigation

fell out of a metaphorical window i have a couple of things in the show notes here so guys i want you just to have a think if there's anything in our drive to survive notes that you want to do to to end the show on and there was there's a nascar link in rumor as well story that that matt found that we want to talk about at the end of the show but i wanted to challenge my own assertion that the australian grand prix isn't representative and i've said this for years chris i've said it for years

don't take anything from the Australian Grand Prix. It's not representative. Just something I've always said. You are completely correct. Am I? But I've done homework. Just so you know, I've actually trawled through. every australian grand prix compared it to the championship table in this century yeah so there was a period of about so i think of maybe five consecutive years in the sort of late 2000s early 2010s

where whoever won in Australia ended up going on to win the world championship. But equally, there was a longer period where... Whoever won the Australian Grand Prix finished second in the championship. And you can kind of draw whatever conclusion you want from these kind of statistics, right? But what you've got to remember is it's a mostly, you know, public road street course.

It is quite fast now compared to what it used to be. Obviously, we used to have the extra chicane. The corners were quite a bit tighter. They've opened them up quite a bit. But there are certain corner types that are lacking. There's not much in the way of low-speed corners. And I think just the surface in general means that...

the way that the cars wrap with the tires and everything. It's really, it's not representative of what a typical Grand Prix would be. But at the same time, we need to remember that about a third of circuits on the calendar now are street courses.

But even that term is difficult to comprehend because you've got street courses with better racing surfaces than some permanent facilities. And then you've got other street courses where it's literally just... the a3 you know so the term street course doesn't have a sort of definitive meaning the a3 is a very niche it's the road from london to southampton it's the road i'm nearest london to portsmouth

It's, well, you get on the A3 to get on the M3 to go to Devon. Yeah, to my liking, Chris, there's too many 50 mile an hour. you know i think some of those bends can be taken at national speed limit so i don't know if that's a discussion you want to get into like now in depth because because i want to uh so matt matt gone again

Right. So I'm just going to call out Stuart for pointing out that Australia is the race that definitively proves that F1 cars can drive upside down because they have so much downforce. True. And literally have been upside down on several occasions, such as Alonzo. Can I just say, can I just say, I am really bored of people posting photos from Australia upside down. That was funny for a day.

in like 2022 if you're still doing it now get some original ideas no disagree it's still skibbity or whatever i don't know You just tried to be old Jed Alpha. Wait, he's trying to Riz. Hold on. I have to look it up. Is Skibbity good or bad? Hang on, we're going to take a break. All right, while he does that, I'll try to bring our two disparate sides together.

Chris annoyingly is correct. When we talk about race tracks and we talk about representative race tracks, and it's important to remember here, we're not talking about representative results. Because if you've got the fastest car, you'll probably do well at Australia because you're going to do well at all of the tracks. Yeah, that's the key point. But what we're really talking about is what kind of a track is it? And it's a track that doesn't have long straights.

has primarily medium and high speed corners. If you want a representative track, what you're talking about is a track that tests the performant ability of the race car in all different types of corners and conditions. And your first problem, again, is because it's a road surface, it's bumpy, which means cars aren't being run. They're generally being run at a higher ride height. So you can get some unexpected results that way.

You don't have to deal with slow corners. You can get some unexpected results that way. And also it's Australian. So apparently everybody is what they call a hooligan and they just drive into each other and cause crashes and random chaos. So you can get some unexpected results that way, which does make for exciting racing. Don't get me wrong, but it's not a complete.

test of a race car so when they talk about representative tracks what they really mean is a track that is a complete test of a race car slow medium high speed corners and heavy medium and easy braking zones as well i've spent the entire time you

We're talking, trying to research what skibbity means. And apparently this means anything. Honestly, that generation is the most garbage where the world's finished. Right. Looking at the... finishing positions of the australian winners is is quite interesting so there are some periods where you go well it was such a dominant car that whoever won that was going to win anyway so schumacher winning in his ferrari in one two and four

And and that's not generally something that we can look at as interesting. But if you look at five, six, seven and eight, you kind of go, wow, that should be the period with all different winners that proves my point. that Australia isn't representative. However, 2006, Raikkonen wins the Australian Grand Prix and the championship. Sorry, Alonso, 2006, beg your pardon. Seven, Raikkonen.

Even though you go, should he have won that championship? I don't know. Eight was Hamilton, 2009 button. So those stats instantly disprove my assertion that it's not representative. But it was immediately followed up by Button winning in Australia in 2010, didn't win the championship. I think Vettel, again, that was a dominant year. Button won it again in 2012.

Raikkonen won it in 2013 uh Rosberg won it in 2014 as well because remember that one euro part on yes but that's that's representative because that car was the championship winning car So I would still count that. Okay, yeah, but it was also one of the most dominant cards. It was also one of the most dominant cards in Formula 1 history. So 14, 15, 16 actually also don't count, but 17 and 18.

Vettel won in the Ferrari. And didn't win the championship. In 2018, he did. Yes, I've got the chart in front of you. 19, Bottas won, and then the Mercedes went on to win the championship. Again, super dominant. Yes. Oh, correct. Because Ferrari got nerfed. And then no Australian Grand Prix in 2021. Leclerc won in 2022. So not representative there. Verstappen won in an extremely, extraordinarily dominant car, probably second only to Hakenen's 98 McLaren. What? No. What? Get out of here. Explain.

Get out of here. That 23 Red Bull is the most dominant Formula One car in the history of the world. Hakanen and Coulthard both lapped the field multiple times. There was a McLaren that would have been the same if there had been that many races. Chris wasn't born then, bless him. Yes, I was. I was a year old. Yeah. If you want to find out more about Mika Hakkinen's career, why not tune in to the latest Missed Apex podcast episode with Catman taking us back through the career of the flying fin.

link in the show notes below maybe if matt's listening and then signs one in 2024 and of course finished fifth in the world championship i will say though the vast majority of times the australian grand prix winner has finished in the top two. So, and every time in the top five, apart from Coulthard in 2003, but apart from signs that we just mentioned, Fisichella, Button in 2010.

Barton in 2012 and Raikkonen in 2013. This century, the Australian Grand Prix winner has finished in the top two of the World Championship. So I challenge my assertion that the Australian Grand Prix isn't representative and I find myself... to be wanting. I was weighed and measured and found myself wanting. What we've learned here is that people who win races tend to finish higher up in the championship spanners. And we're talking about periods apart from...

2012 for example and 2010 where what two maybe three people win grand prix right four tops we're we're currently going into a period where we're expecting eight drivers to be regularly in contention for wins. I don't think any circuit is representative anymore when you've got a field like that.

all right okay uh to finish up the show then uh let's let's see if there's any little drive to side bits i think i've gone like an hour and 10 here without having a massive rant about this specific thing so i i've been positive about drive to survive i've pointed out the best bits have i not have i not been positive Look, you've been incredibly positive, and I know exactly what you're going to say. I was also staggered that Charles Leclerc's mum still cuts his hair. Yes, that's the one.

And she's a very good hairdresser then, because that is one well put together lad. If I wasn't a Charles Leclerc fan before watching Drive to Survive through, I definitely would be now. That is scary because I was just saying to Joe Sayward on one of his live audiences, as a Lewis Hamilton fan, as a fan of 40-year-old Lewis Hamilton, I am terrified of Leclerc for next season. as a teammate to go up against. I'm incredibly nervous. I'm still giving Lewis 55% to 45%.

But, you know, we've been Leclerc fans on this podcast. I've never heard anyone really say a bad thing against him apart from the mistakes rate, which seems to kind of been put to bed last year a little bit. I can't think of any glaring. Real glaring errors. He's not continuing his crashing every other Friday practice, every other FP1. The problem is, Spanners, the last season was so long. Oh, yeah.

already forgotten 90 of what happened that's why you should watch that's why you should watch the other previous episode of missed apex podcast where me brad and alex and matt went back and watched the first three races of the 2024 season links in the show notes links in the show notes below again if matt is paying paying attention and listening sorry what someone just woke me up there will be no links in the show notes below

But yeah, so yeah, Charles Clerk came across really well in that, especially in the Monaco episode. And, you know, he was talking about his dad. There was a really endearing conversation where he didn't actually clear this up. He said he lied to his dad as he was dying. and said that he had an F1 contract, clarified that his mum told him that it was wrong, that he shouldn't do that, but never said, oh, then I went back and told my dad I was lying, so I don't think he did.

And I kind of hope he didn't, if I'm being honest. No, he didn't. He didn't just tell him he had an F1 contract. He told him he had a Ferrari contract. Oh, my goodness. Well, isn't that sort of true if you drive for Sauber? Yeah, but he wasn't driving for Sauber at the time. But that would have been the lie. Oh, he said he had a Ferrari drive. He said he had a Ferrari contract while he was still in F2. Wow.

Well, that is a big stinking lie. But, you know, it makes a difference. You know, when people are at the end of their lives, they want to know that the culmination of certain stories are true. And I know my dad was very comforted with a sonogram. Is that what they call it? The sonogram? Where they was like, look.

Your grandson's on his way. The line will continue. Oh, I've never had kids. I don't know why. I don't know why you were interjecting on that. It's a really blurry picture that could be anything. yeah you kind of go like that and he didn't know that he was going to turn out like oggy and be all weird and stuff so he was happy at the time to see that by the way uh someone in the chat uh rachel in the chat has confirmed that uh

Charles Leclerc's mum is a hairdresser. And I did think that, but I didn't want to say anything. So yeah, well done, Mrs Leclerc. You do a great job. So that's not the episode I was ranting about. So I forgot, actually, that was a good episode. No, the episode I'm ranting about is episode three.

where they had clearly set their stall out to follow George Russell and say things from a George Russell point of view. And my rant on Twitter, which at the moment I think has 11,000 likes, which is insane for something I just tweet.

Because I'm just throwing stuff out. I don't know. I don't know what people are going to glom onto. I said, how on earth do you make Silverstone 2024 about George Russell? And I think a lot of people were really unhappy about that. From their point of view, I think Lewis Hamilton... actively backed away from drive to survive for the season so that that's fine and you can understand why

Given that it's a lame duck year with Mercedes. So he'd already, you know, Fred had made sure that everyone knew he was leaving. So do you really want the cameras following you around that year? Maybe not. So they were following George Russell around. They clearly had the cameras in the paddock for Silverstone, but they absolutely painted Silverstone as George Russell. It was his to lose and he threw it away. Oh, no. And then you had a redemption arc through Spar.

where he did this amazing call on the tyres, won the race, and they didn't mention the disqualification. The reason that has been so troublesome for people and why my tweet took off is because when people talk about their season highlights for 2024... About 60% of the feedback we got was Lewis Hamilton winning at Silverstone was like this super special thing, the first win since 2021. And they painted it as George Russell threw it away.

I know a lot of people have said, and then later on in the series, they said McLaren threw it away with a strategy call. I'll get very defensive about that because Lewis Hamilton drove incredibly in the intermediate. stints of that as other drivers in fact were vulnerable to wearing intermediates the changing conditions saved them from the stalking Lewis Hamilton Hamilton was on fire in very Lewis Hamilton conditions

It was a much loved and celebrated victory. And on Drive to Survive, they basically painted it as, well, Russell threw it away. I mean, he was ahead in qualifying. Yeah, he's ahead in qualifying. Because... He probably ran a qualifying setup. If you're a George Russell fan and you found out that he was running a one lap ultimate pace setup, let's go for it in qualifying. Would you be surprised? Of course you wouldn't. If you're a Hamilton fan and you got told...

Hamilton's looking at tyre wear in the race and also the weather forecast that it might be intermediate conditions. So he was running a little bit more downforce that might compromise him a little in qualifying. Would you be surprised? No, none of that came up. It's just Russell's on pole. He threw it away. And I guess Hamilton won, maybe. Not that they mentioned it. All right. Run over.

Okay, so in terms of the story arc they were going for, which is that Toto needs to find a driver to lead Mercedes, is George going to be that person? I can understand why they spent a little bit of time making races that weren't necessarily... where George was the protagonist and spending some time on that. The sort of unforgivable thing they did, though, was not mentioning the spar disqualification because...

what they sort of failed to acknowledge there is that, yeah, okay, George did what he was required to do. Like they have the conversation with Toto and George on the boat. And that does kind of recontextualize. spar a little bit or just sort of adds context to the race really and so he does what was required of him in terms of like trying to be a leader and make bold decisions

but then they failed to mention that that decision ended up in him being disqualified from the race. Yeah. So, I mean, I guess you could argue that you could leave that point in there and still... Get the ultimate point of the narrative across. Okay, but every other car, so he was running sixth at the time, I think, and probably would have finished fifth or sixth. Every car ahead of him could also have not pitted and then been underweight.

So the context of that is, and this is something we spoke with with Mike Caulfield, was no one was expecting that to be a one stopper. So you would have weighted your car appropriately. So once you set off, once you went on the grid and the lights went out, you were tied into a two stopper. Because you were never going to make the weight with worn tires. And I heavily suspect that Mercedes knew that. And we're like, wow, what do we want to do? Do we want to settle for a sixth place?

Or should we do it and kind of see if we sneak through scrutineering? Definitely, if you look back to the post-race interviews, Wolf looked pretty shady. Are you delighted, happy and unashamedly ecstatic about this win? And he's like... Yes, well, we'll see. So lots of things can happen. And you go, there's something strange going on here. And I think we said it at the time. I probably have WhatsApp evidence that we said it was strange at the time. But all of the drivers ahead of him.

could also have not pitted, looked like heroes and then been disqualified. There was just no legal way to do that one-stop strategy. That was a maddening narrative. And I will say this is obviously biased as being a Lewis Hamilton fan. But you took away both of Lewis Hamilton's wins. You just wiped 2024 Hamilton victories from the record books and made them both. Oh, they were both George's races, really. But I guess Hamilton kind of won in the end.

Yeah, and this is the thing. One of my favorite quotes from the family watching this was when we got to that, they were like, it's never serious till Lewis is about to win at Silverstone. Because they watched that race. They know what happened there. But from the DTS point of view, the story is Lewis leaves. Will Russell be able to step up? Silverstone casts him into the deep pit. It's the dark moment. He may not be able to make it.

And then Spa is the redemption. And they don't really care about what actually happened because people who didn't watch this season don't know any better. And this, you know, maybe it's more akin to wrestling, which... I don't, I'm not looking down on it because wrestling is like super duper popular, but I'm going to ask the question, is it time for a drive to survive series for people who watch formula one regularly and are actually serious fans?

OK, I know I reference David Attenborough documentaries a lot, but it's like they had a documentary about saving a penguin from the cliff. And they said, oh, and by the way, we rescued the penguin. But in reality, they just let it fall. off the edge to get eaten by a big killer whale. So watching the George Russell episode did kind of reaffirm some initial suspicions. I'm more confident in these initial suspicions.

I had, which is that I think this year, Kimi Antonelli is going to be the superior driver to George Russell. May not necessarily score as many points as him, because I think Kimi is going to have some, you know, off the road moments. He is a rookie. We've got to take that into account. But I think I'll sort of liken it to... when Lewis first arrived in Formula One, Fernando largely was beating him in races based on his experience, not because of his speed or talent. So, and...

Russell doesn't have anywhere near the level of credential as Fernando Alonso does. So I think Kimi is going to be more than a match for George in multiple ways. And this episode just made me believe that even more. yeah it would be more believable if they weren't actively courting verstappen to be the number one driver yeah but they have been that was that was real that was 100 okay but they have been

They are. There was a story that he said we would not chase Verstappen whilst Hamilton was part of the team. So I think Hamilton's announcement that he was going to Ferrari took the... took any moral obligation to not speak to Verstappen away. So in 2024, they were actively talking to Verstappen, as far as I can tell.

And then Drive to Survive paints this picture that, no, it's all about Russell stepping up to be the leader. It's like, no. In fairness, in fairness, they did acknowledge the fact that Toto was looking outside of the... team yes they did because they talked about him signing carlos signing fernando signing max but in the end um running the illegal car home in spa is what changed their mind not that verstappen said no yeah yeah

It's like somebody who's got an unattractive spouse who claims that they're super amazing and I just find them so attractive, but really they were just their least ugly person that would marry them. That's no way to talk about Mrs. Spannett. Oh no, that's too accurate. Are we going to bring up the, the, the, the other thing that sort of just didn't ever get talked about? You can.

In all the discussion about who was going to fill the other Red Bull seat, Carlos Sainz never came up. Oh, yeah. And you'd think, based on their history, he'd be a great choice, wouldn't you? Who are you talking about? Are you talking about the fact that he used to be a Red Bull driver? Are you talking about Max's specific history with Carla? He used to be a Red Bull driver. He's been successful. More successful at every team he's gone to than anyone gave him credit for.

And if you need someone to help you out in a world championship, would you choose a random youth from New Zealand or someone with Carlos Sainz CV? And if they didn't ask him at all.

Well, everyone makes a big deal about the Lewis request not to talk to Max, but maybe something similar was going on there. I don't know. Just asking questions. I did enjoy getting to see a bit of Liam's test in the... red bull because normally these kind of tests are hush hush closed doors and then you get like if it's a filming day then you just see the super cool drone footage but you know christian oh harry's lap times what's the feedback

Like they're not just looking at the lap time. It's how is he talking to you on the radio? Is he understanding everything that's going on? And it was the same day as Max as well. So it wasn't like the Ricciardo test where they said, oh, it would have been pole the previous. week or whatever this was max is driving today the same as you so we'll get to see it exactly it's not like you remember when ricardo they made this whole thing when they brought ricardo back

And like his time would have put him on the front row of the grid for the Grand Prix. And it's like, my God, that was like a year ago and you're on different tires. I just said that, but you yelled it in a better way. Yeah, I'm jealous. Yeah, so they really stuck the knife in with Perez as well, about 18 times. They say, well, you can't win the championship with one leg.

Stuff like that. You go, oh, yeah, anyone would do better now. And they're speaking to David Coulthard, and David Coulthard's like, yeah, I would do better. And he said, I could put anyone in the car now and they'd do better, which is fine. I mean, like, I get it, but... It was very savage. Us Perez fans have suffered enough. It's been bad enough that we had to suffer 2024 and we've got to wait till 2026 for Perez to come back and win the championship with Cadillac.

Did you have to stick the knife in that badly? Did you have to? Can I just say I'm fed up. I'm fed up with everyone talking about Ricardo and Perez and who else lost their seat this year? Magnuson. Joe. I've heard so much about Joe. Magnuson was another one. Bottas is the only one I could conceive of ever coming back to Formula 1 because he actually still has... a fair bit of talent and a reason to stay in in formula one honestly everyone at ricardo checo washed magnuson

Much happier in sports cars. If you are the Mercedes social media team and you don't put out TikToks of Valtteri Bottas trying to poison the number one, number two drivers. before the race weekend, you are missing a trick. That has to happen. But that is all his job is now. His job is to tick-tock. And you go, well, how much of that was the stake F1 team being really good at making Bottas funny?

No, Bottas was more of the front man at Mercedes in terms of the social media stuff before. And then Sauber really ran away with that. Oh man, we've been on for ages. Sorry, I didn't realise how much the time had gone. But yeah, I think if you are an extant Formula One fan, like an older Formula One fan, sorry to call me a Matt Old.

There are things that you can enjoy with Drive to Survive. I've been negative about it on social media because of those very specific points. But like Matt said, if you stick it on with the kids, they're going to enjoy it. And actually the details, they don't matter so much. It's beautifully shot.

If you've got a reasonable TV, it's going to look good. It's going to sound good. It's going to give you a flavor of the Formula One season. And Drive to Survive have never claimed that here we're going to do an accurate retelling of the season. So it's not a history book. It's not something you have to study for for a test. But you can't take those two wins away from Lewis. That's why you got on my bad side this year, Drive to Survive. Jump in, episode seven.

See what you think. There's definitely good merits about it. And like I said, the reason we've talked about it so much and we do every year is because it's worked its way and earned its way into this position in Formula One where it's an incredibly important part. of the industry. We're getting to the sharp end now of the season. It's been a wonderful off season. Thank you so much to the people who've tuned in.

Thank you to anyone who has shared this with even one friend at work. Honestly, that is how Mist Apex grows. Just tell anyone. You just go, oh, you into Formula One. Yeah, I watch the race and then I listen to Mist Apex podcast. And you go, that's how we drive forward. So even if you've got six Facebook friends and you share a link and just go, this is an F1 podcast, I don't mind. That really, really helps us. And looking at the patron figures.

This is the first off season where we've gained patrons, which makes me feel amazing and secure. I said last year, this was the first time last year I was confident we were going to survive the whole season. doing doing this as as a you know as a profession as a job and now i look forward to the next year and the year after i go i'm pretty confident this is 60 of my week is now formula one

Not just with Myst Apex, but doing any Formula One stuff, all because we are supported by the patrons. Thank you so much for making independent content creators, you know, dream come true here over at Myst Apex Podcast. Patreon.com. forward slash Missed Apex. We'll do some kind of midweek content. Haven't thought about it yet, but I know new stories are going to be erupting all throughout the week. And then we will see you at 9.30am on Sunday.

for our Australian Grand Prix race review with Jono, who's in Australia, and Brad Philpott, who, as far as I am aware, doesn't have the need for human sleep. And in the meantime... If you are Formula E curious, for example, we have a Missed Apex Formula E show. We are currently in a bit of a break between races, but we're filling that break with some really great content. Can we say who we've got lined up?

I don't want to say who, because, right, so the thing is, I was hoping at this point to have one of these interviews out, and then on the day I was supposed to do the interview, they had to call me and reschedule it because something had come up. It does happen. And so I don't want to change anything. Were they talking to Alpine? It's a Formula E driver. Yeah, it's for the Formula E show. And if you look at the Formula E...

Missed Apex Formula E YouTube channel which we'll link in the show notes below if that's Matt's alive. He's fine. We'll get that linked in. I'm just waiting to promo the MotoGP show. Yeah, the MotoGP show has zero driver rider interviews, whereas we've had interviews with Sam Bird. Sam Bird, Lucas Degrassi. Dennis. Jake Dennis. And Jake Dennis, yep. And this one coming up, which we can't say, which is just as good. We've got loads coming up.

Before the next race in Miami, I'm hoping to have two drivers and one team principal. And then throughout the season, I want to have people from the broadcast team. I want to have more drivers. I want to have more team principals. Maybe even someone who just did those weird Evo sessions thing.

just went down like mr beast let's get mr beast on no no no no no no no no someone i someone i like um matt is gonna now try and claim that you should listen to the moto gp pod um if you want to watch a series where mark marquez is just going to win everything on that ducati Go ahead. But if you don't want to know who's going to win races week in and week out, come and join us. But if you want to listen to a podcast other people are also listening to, listen to the vote.

Yeah, I know. I mean, the fact that you already know those details suggests why you should listen to MotoGP. And we have a special program. If you are bike curious and not a MotoGP listener. You can absolutely check that out and join the fun. It's like a primer, like a primer for MotoGP. Exactly. We'll catch you up on to where the teams are. Can we link that specific episode into the show notes then?

We absolutely can. And perhaps in the not too distant future, I might make a very short appearance on your motorcycle. I wouldn't have him on, Matt. Don't do it. Just to... announce something that i i may or may not be doing oh that's great that's great we we can have an off-air chat depends on how much money you're willing to offer there's a couple of really big things that are coming up in the mapper sphere

Can we say that in the Myst Apex podcast? I think so. I love that. There's some big maposphere things coming up. So stay tuned. Thank you to everyone who's been with us in the off season. And I really hope you'll be with us for 2025. So many F1 fans. spoken to have said they have never been more excited.

for a Formula One season. So until the crushing disappointment of one driver dominating hits us, we can all live in hope that those things will come to fruition. And until we see you next, work hard, be kind and have fun. This. was Miss Deepak's podcast. Follow my trumpets. Follow Chris Stevens. And follow Spanners. That's me. I'm the best one.

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