How To Lose the Monaco GP

Hey guys, Spanners here. I'm joined in the shed by Kyle today, and we're going to be talking to Mike Caulfield, who

heart of F1 strategy. He was a strategy Mercedes and he was the head of strategy over at Haas as well so we're gonna be looking forward to the Monaco Grand Prix new tire regulation changes and is there ever to save it but to be fair there have been some memorable moments at the monaco grand prix and me and carl are going to talk through some of those as well carl joins me now hello kyle

Hello, how's it going? Feels weird to be on the main one. It's weird to be on the main one because you've been the MotoGP host of of late it's been a mission and that mission has been rewarded because you guys have just passed your first episode with a thousand downloads a thousand downloads in the podcast space is massive It puts you in like the top something something percent and you should be incredibly proud.

That's unreal. I'm really, really happy about it. It was a bit of a shock. I can't believe people listened to us. I guess you went through this right at the start. I can't believe people listened to us. And I tried to always precursor like the... show I was just like you know we pretend to be experts we're just like people talking we're just punters talking but people seem to listen to us talking and seem to well they come back which is nice I don't know whether that

Obviously in my head, because I have imposter syndrome, I think there's a thousand people sharing it saying, look how stupid these guys are. Yeah, look at these idiots. I said that with the Miami thing because we get quite a lot of online feedback and a bit of grief online. And I actually want to talk a little bit about that towards the end of the show because there was some specific stuff with Jack Doohan and Colopinto and Yuki Tsunoda and the F1 space now seems to be trying to push back.

against it and really kind of address it. So I worry when I do these live events in Miami. I go, hang on, are the people that have registered to turn up, are these just the same people that have been having a go at me online? Did they get a ticket just to call me a turnip?

turning up just to criticize you. Why would they come to our gig just to boo us? But yeah, well done with MotoGP and people who are into MotoGP should definitely check that out. There will be links in the show notes below. We're into... our pre-Monaco week. Now, I haven't always been the most positive person about the Monaco Grand Prix. We tend to disagree with things like this, so I'm going to guess that you would defend the Monaco GP a little bit.

It is what it is and it's there and it's not going anywhere. You may as well embrace it and try to enjoy it in whichever way you can. The one thing I do like about Monaco is It's tense. It takes a tiny lapse of concentration on a mistake and somebody's in the wall, a safety car, and it can change it all.

And I'm really looking forward to this one in particular because I'm actually a huge fan of the enforced rule that they've put in. I usually hate stuff like this, but for Monaco, I think it makes perfect sense. Okay, why don't you give us a summary of what the new rules are? Well, they're basically going to enforce two stops, and they're enforcing two stops by saying you have to use three sets of tyres.

So that's essentially guarantee you have to do two stops because you're using three sets of tyres and the same two compound rules apply. If you kind of look into this, I mean, we'll talk about it more later, but I think that opens up some really interesting strategy permeations because there's permutations even.

Because I think this is unprecedented. We've never really seen this before. And it actually harps and likens it to like a... a very big sort of um oddly people are going to hate me saying this but an indoor karting event is the race in the brkc where there's an enforced pit stop but the strategy vary and it's very hard to overtake and the strategy varies are fantastic and those races are generally well you've commentated you've been there you've been

yeah and some of those races are genuinely exciting because you there's a myriad of different options you can do and this is formula one's got it for the first time and i think this is actually fascinating so i i i i for one cannot wait and for that reason I'm going to defend Monaco today. Well, I'll defend the fact that they're doing something because we've been talking about it for years and there's almost been this... Okay, there's been a...

A lack of willingness to admit that it's not a good race. And in fact, the race doesn't ever get gabbing. And we'll hear when we talk to Mike here. just the extent to which the teams can go very slow. So the whole thing about it is, yeah, but the challenge, they're so close to the walls, they're doing this, yeah, but in the race, Not really. We are going to talk about the 1996...

Monaco Grand Prix as well, and I re-watched that after Kyle pointed out that as one of the candidates for Monaco magic moments. I went back and watched bits of the 1996 Monaco Grand Prix and go, ooh, they don't race like that anymore. Sorry. The recent races have just been these really slow processions where you can deliberately go as slow as you want and no one can overtake you, often even in wet conditions. And I just felt for a long time... But no one was admitting that. And so...

By making this rule change and making a special set of rules for Monaco that doesn't apply elsewhere, At least for me, in my fan heart, that is an admission that it doesn't work in modern Formula One. And that might seem like a really small thing, but for the longest time, I felt like I was being gaslit. And I was like, nothing happens. It's a dull Grand Prix. This is terrible. And people were going, oh, no, no, no, no, no. It's actually a magnificent duel in the crowd.

The fact that they've finally gone, okay, we admit there's a problem. That's the first stage. When you admit there's a problem, then you can do something about it. So from that point of view, I am a fan, Kyle. I'm not complaining that they've done something. In fact, two things. We've got the new soft attire.

which was used at Imola, which is also going to be used here, and they have to do two stops, and they have to use three different sets of tyres, but not three different compounds. Is that right? Yes, not three different compounds, three different sets across the two compounds.

So it'll be great. Well, actually, I think it'll be worse if they say you have to use three compounds. It gives variation, so there might be different angles of going about it. Using three compounds would have been too prescriptive, so it's prescriptive. but open to interpretation or open to other strategies so i actually think they've got this just about right but we'll see they're probably going to prove us wrong it probably will be an endurance economy run and going about

Talking about people going really slowly. 2013, I think, was the epitome, wasn't it? With the super soft tyres now going like four or five seconds a lap slower just to get it to the one stop. That was dreadful. Mike, in this interview, I'm about to play specifically... talks about that and actually when these things come up i'm amazed how much i can remember

So, you know, it was something, it was like the 2016 Daniel Ricciardo thing. And when his tires weren't ready, I was chatting to Mike and I was like, oh my God, I remember what tires Mercedes were on. How do I remember that they were on the ultra soft? And Red Bull were on the soft. So I'm going to play that out. Notepads and pens at the ready. We'll have a chat about the Mike Caulfield interview.

After that finishes and we'll talk about some Monaco moments and we're going to put our necks on the line and we're going to make some predictions for the Monaco Grand Prix. Hello Spanners and Kyle from the past. I hope you guys are having a lovely evening, but I'm here in the afternoon and just swanning around talking to friends in and around Formula One because I don't have a real job. And my friend today...

is somebody who has been a strategist at the very highest level in motorsport. It's Mike Caulfield. Hello, Mike. Hi, mate. How's it going? It's all right. I'm getting to chat to you, so it's fun. You said to me any show we do should be called How to Lose. the Monaco Grand Prix and I got the vibe that you might not be the Monaco Grand Prix's biggest fan in the world.

Yeah, you could say that. I think basically in the F1 world, I found that you fall into two camps with Monaco. You either love it or you hate it as a strategist. I've tended to hate it more often than not, I think. So it's not just even about the racing, the actual, just the whole event kind of always used to great on me. So it's one of those ones I'm actually not.

Not too... There's some events we all got. I really wish I was still there. And then there's some events where I'm really glad I'm at home. And this is one where I'm really glad I'm at home. Well, I've got to pull on that thread first. I'm assuming that a lot of it is around the fuss, I guess. There's a lot of celebrities around. Is the vibe of the teams different than when you go to Monaco?

yes and i mean it's it's obviously it's in the middle of it's it's a very cramped and close environment they're like the pit lanes totally open so the garages are totally open you're not got any kind of nice Paddock where you can separate yourself off and it's always busy. I think the one thing from my side is that the offices here are above the garages here.

You have racing all weekend. You've just got constant noise just battering you all the time. It's hot often because you're in these kind of prefab buildings. It's just not a nice environment. Yeah, your normal races, you kind of hop off the kind of garage, you can wander across your hospitals, you get a drink and away with it. The paddock in Monaco is down by the harbour, so it's a 10-15 minute walk from your office.

You can't have that kind of little luxury. If there's a session going on, you basically can't walk through because obviously it's an active pit lane. it's just, it's just hectic. Oh my, I'm sorry. Does it take too long to get to hospitality? Does it mind?

Yes, yes, yes it does. No, no, I mean, the thing about being above the pit lane, I'll start by asking your take on the Daniel Ricciardo situation a while back where he was on... softs I think and then Mercedes went on oh gosh this thing went on to hyper softs or ultra softs whichever one was the the bigger so it was um It was basically, I was at that race, so that was 2016. Yeah, so it started wet, so everyone started on ex-wet tyres. It dried.

some people went to winters we with mercedes with lewis um stayed on experts because you can't overtake so it doesn't matter if you drive around for five seconds so you stay out so red bull obviously went uh red bull put ricardo onto onto winters which dropped us dropped them behind um behind lewis But obviously on a much quicker tyre because the Inter was the faster tyre, but there was no way of being overtaken. And then, yeah, they went for the pit stop. So we pitted Lewis first.

Still on that kind of transitional period, so he's still on the inter-tyre, which is quicker than the slicks at that point. But then they came in to obviously pit Danny Rick onto the slick tyres we'd already pit. we were on the slow warm-up lap so technically he had he had the gap because the inter was still the quicker tyre so he'd made up that rare but then they didn't have i think i don't know if they had any tyres ready off there was one corner missing

And yeah, so I don't know if the viewers know that basically at Monaco, you've got a three-story pit building all your tires and everything are kept in there but basically your tires are stored on the actual start finish side opposite side to the pit lane

under some trees basically it is literally in a tent under some trees um and if you kind of haven't got there isn't space in the garages to do the normal layout where you've got your racks and everything especially in that kind of situation where you've got incense wets

In a normal race, yeah, you've got your next set laid out, but in this one where it was a bit changeable conditions, they just obviously weren't. So it wasn't just a case of, oh, we've got the wrong set, quickly grab it out of the garage. They literally had to run through the garage. under some trees to pull the tire sets out and even then he only just came out behind Lewis so it just showed what the actual performance they should have won that race easily.

ties in with the name of How to Lose Monaco Grand Prix. That was so heartbreaking because he was just sat there, it feels like forever, but knowing what you're saying, I didn't realise it was on three levels. I knew they had to go out the back. But they actually did really well to get it that quickly, even. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, well, yeah.

I don't know the exact layout or how Red Bull had it, but yeah, it was very much the case of, I think, they weren't readily available and they had to kind of quickly spin it around or they'd brought the wrong set out or something. But from my memory of it, and this is, we're going back nearly nine years now, I think that they were originally going to go on to the soft.

which at that time was the third softest tyre available I think you had like ultra soft and hyper soft so I think because you guys had gone to the very softest one they suddenly went, oh, maybe Mercedes knows something we don't. Something like that. Yeah. Potential, yeah. And always this case, again, when you're in the drying conditions, obviously a softer tyre heats up as hell, but...

I also remember at that point, the Hypersoft or Alkshof's camera, which one it was, was also draining quite significantly. So actually in a normal dry race, you didn't want to use the softest tyre, but maybe in these conditions, they had a change of mind when they saw us fit it. To put that on. There you go. So you did that. You specifically caused that Daniel Ricciardo heartbreak.

I'll take it, yeah. Nice one, mate. Nice one, Mike. Made Danny Rick cry. Yeah. So you're describing, though, quite an exciting strategic scenario, whereas, you know, so why don't you love it? That was a time for you to shine. Because I've also had the experience at the other end where I've been under a safety car and come out.

P12 or something when you're running P5 and then with the beauty of Monaco is you then just can use one of your drivers just to back everyone else up and you get stuck behind a car. Obviously not this weekend, but at that point, your armpit's stopped and done, and there's nothing else you can do about it, and it's an awful feeling. How often does that happen then, that the second driver or one driver gets deployed to just block?

It has done quite recently in the past and I think with the two stops this weekend. I can see it possibly being a real strategy this weekend of trying to create gaps for teammates and stuff. Some teams, obviously, if they've got... equal drivers or the teams it'll be more difficult to do but if you have a situation not gonna name any names Red Bull where you've got a split in the cars and you've got someone

Pitting early, who's a competitor, and you've got a car which is back in P9, P10, and one car's up in P2, you're going to force that driver back to get you a other car through pit stop. It's actually one I'm really looking forward to this week, and it could be really interesting to see what teams do in terms of tactics in that sense. Firstly, I want to say about the pitting under safety car. So with one star...

Yeah, we've had it a few times where you go, oh, safety car, that'll spice things up. But it doesn't. It just takes away any variation that the pit stop. uh could have could have thrown up so yeah we've had some really so i've been going on this kind of not quest but just going can we just admit that it's not entertaining to watch

Because for ages, everyone around F1 was like, no, it's the jewel in the crown. You're watching it wrong. If anything, you're watching it wrong. Look how close they get to the barriers. But during the race, they're not really pushing. Have you spoken to the drivers about how it feels on a Sunday? Are they literally bored or do they find some excitement in it?

I mean there's definitely experience as well so I think Merc in 2013 when we won with That would have been the new car one, wouldn't it, I think. Yes, yeah, the one with Nico in 2013, where they didn't have the fastest car by a mile at Monaco, but managed to qualify in pole. Yeah. Literally just broke the box. so slow and it was like no one was trying it was just Yep, doll. Vettel called it the silver bar.

Something like that, yeah. But that was it, yeah. And then I think there's obviously a few years ago, I can't remember, again, it could have been Danny Ricci had the MGU8 or MGK issue, and it was driving like five. six seconds off the pace and but still you can't do anything about it so and then yeah in the situation when when i messed up with kevin it was um it was lando there um

backing up. I can't remember who his teammate was at the time. Lando was the second guy and he basically just backed everyone up to create a three-star. And then because he had been trying really slowly, he had a lot of tyres left. So then once his teammate had made a stop, he then just sped off and everyone else had destroyed the tyres because they'd stopped early. Remind me how you messed up for Kevin Magnussen.

So basically we were a P5 and then there was a safety car came out on last... nine or something and by this point we were a P5 or P6 and I think we were stuck behind the Renault and the Renault was driving slow because they were managing the tyres, they were driving slow. And the top four had actually pulled away, like almost by a pit stop within the first eight laps because the Renault was driving so slow. And we made the call to pit on lap nine when we should have stayed out.

under the safety car because normally the incident reaction safety car you should pit under it but it actually meant we dropped out behind a couple of cars who'd started on the opposite tyre, the hard or whatever it was at the time. So they were slow and they weren't stopping. And then we didn't forecast a scenario where you had a couple of cars then creating a gap. So basically it dropped out in about P12, P13. and just went backwards and backwards. And we'd never gained anything back from it.

And it was just one of those ones where you kind of watched it. i was in two minds to stop beforehand and i called it and it just it's just one of those things but it's the gutting when you see where you're going to come out and you see who's ahead of you I don't know. That's it. There's nothing we can do about it. If you could have paused time and had longer to think about it, would you have made that same choice? Is it one of those snap decisions?

There was a few things about it. So we'd have a discussion pre-race about it. And going into it right up until about an hour before the race, I was always basically safety car window opens lap 15. Oh, so this is before the safety car window? Yeah, this was, well, yeah, in my mind. And then an hour before the race, I'd had a chat with someone who was basically saying, well, now we're probably going to come in from lap six.

And it just clouded my thinking. And I was like, why are they thinking that? Am I missing something? Different team. Different team. Is that like the strategist WhatsApp group? No, but it was a different team, but not a competitor. So like it wasn't like they were hiding anything from me. And then it clouded my thinking and I just should have... As usual, as I know, 99 times out of 100, I stick with my gut. And this time I didn't.

it just yeah that's what happened and it's just awful feeling like it's it's honestly the worst feeling i've ever had Oh, there would have been parties. You'd have been in the pool, probably. Oh, my goodness. Let's not dwell on that. Let's not dwell on that too much. I'm just surprised, really. I know, speaking to the NASCAR guys, all the Toyota strategists will talk.

I didn't know whether that kind of happens or how much collusion there is between, say, the Mercedes power unit guys, where you kind of are naturally in a club where you're more friendly with them than, say, the Ferrari stable. Yeah, I mean, all the strategies know each other. And the worst thing is, you also know which drivers talk to each other.

and certain drivers will tell each other what's their strategy they're doing. So then you'll suddenly come back from the driver's parade and you have your driver wandering up to this going... Sebastian says it's a two stop. And you go, oh no, why are you talking to Seb? Oh, yeah. Well, I suppose, you know, they're countrymen, if you've got right. You've given away who we're talking about here.

Since we're talking about Rosbo, I just want to go back to that 2013 one. Did you specifically say to them, like, just because that year you were chewing tires, weren't you, in that Mercedes? So you were qualifying really well, sometimes by a second. And then no tyres in the race. So did you say to them, like, just literally park it, go as slow as you possibly can, don't fight each other? Yeah, we were literally, so, like, I mean...

We were obviously doing a lot of work by that point to try and figure out what was going on, and by the temperature coming off the car, we literally had a number which said, this is how much energy we're putting through the tyre, and we put a limit on it saying, okay, we don't want to go above 1,200.

And so we were just driving it to that. And that was even, we programmed it to be on their steering wheel to hit this. So they were driving to this kind of number. That's interesting. I was obviously a big Hamilton fan and I was, excited about this move to Mercedes that everyone said would be a disaster and then this tire thing just kept happening and it was haunting me. I literally dreamt about it.

And I dreamt that my wife came up and looked at it because she's just got this habit of solving a problem that I've been dwelling on for ages. So she came along and she went, oh yeah, no, their ride height's wrong. And I woke up going, oh, so simple. What if it is that? What was it that was chewing the Mercedes tyres in 2013?

I mean, going back a bit now, I'm trying to remember exactly what it is. It was definitely suspension kinematics of some sort. So over that period, there was about four or five different versions of... suspension. I mean, part of the reason was they designed the car around the model from 2012 and made already a significant jump but then Pirelli brought the new tyre to 2013.

which basically, I mean, we haven't got Matt on today above this, but basically the ply of the tyre was different and they'd put a steel belt on compared to a Kevlar belt. and it changed the whole dynamic of the tyre. So then that's why Merck did the tyre switching. And suddenly realized, ah, we've figured it out. Because of the ply of the tyre, actually. So I know we've diverted from Monaco, but this is where you would move a tyre from the rear right to the front left.

Oh, right to right left. Yeah, left to right. And what would that do? It would increase the... So it basically had an effect on the toe of the tyre, so it meant the properties of the tyre, the heating of the tyre. was more stable and more consistent so you could basically run the tyre in the optimum for qualifying on the proper ones so they'd get the heat for the qualifying. switch them over, they wouldn't then heat as much because you're actually having an opposite effect on the toe of the

So toe is, if it's standing up, it's either pointing slightly, the top's leaning over inwards or leaning over. That's camber. That's camber. So toe is like pointing basically... like that into like which way so if you're toeing you're like facing slightly left or facing slightly right if you're front to back because it's obviously audio hello audio listeners um no it's fine and so i was in the stands then in 2013 when we had about

four or five tyre blowouts. I thought that was caused by people doing that. So did you start doing that and then other teams copied you and so basically you caused a tyre gate in 2013? Well, we caused it to be stopped, yeah. Yeah, so I think we figured it out and we didn't figure it out until Monaco time. And it wouldn't have made a difference for Monaco because of the nature of the circuit.

around that time we figured that out but then we also noticed that other teams had already been doing that and then yeah but the type arts weren't specifically. Due to that, I think they would have had, because I think there were some cars who had the blowouts who weren't switching the tyres. They were still the kind of construction of that steel belt. Listen to Mike walking this back. I think it might have cost

Hauser podium at Monaco and caused the famous tie gate of 2013. They'd win that Silverstone race though. True, with Rushback. Rushback won that one. Yeah, okay. Lyricist's first one wasn't told. Yeah, well, and also wasn't Vettel in the lead, though, and his engine conked out, and the British crowd was so sympathetic.

on the start, finish, straight. Yeah, that's an hour, because I was back at the factory at that point, and you're literally, you know, the TV's usually about five, ten seconds behind, and you're just, someone had keyed up on the intercom, and all you had is, and then suddenly cut to the TV to see him stop it. Yeah, that was me. I was involved in that. And I was like, oh,

Such a shame. Unlucky, Seb. Unlucky. So, back to Monaco then. I'm glad you brought up the teams kind of shifting around and using one driver. And I sort of, I wonder... If you think you're out of position, so I guess if you think you're up front and you shouldn't be, you close everyone up. But if you've got a fast car, is it ever worth breaking away at Monaco and trying to just build a gap and go? I guess it depends on how fragile you think the tyres are. And I think...

The one thing you don't ever want to do at Monaco is have to pit. into traffic so you can obviously drive around slowly and keep the tyres but especially this weekend now where there's going to be two stops I think there'll probably be There's obviously more chance now that you can just say, well, I know these tyres last the full race distance, so I can actually just push them because we've got two stops to make anyway.

try to build a gap. So I think potentially if you've got a fast car and three out front, you might well try and do that. But more often than not, you just don't want your tyres falling off and having to kind of make a pit stop early. or not but then you can't overtake so potentially you go up and then you just drop back and then you just sit trundling around four seconds off the base Gap's opened up or someone stopped you.

Thrilling. Thrilling. Well, because I've gone off on one about, you know, Monaco Grand Prix is boring. At least. At least just admit it and then we can treat it in a different way. And I said the other way to watch the Monaco Grand Prix is just turn the volume up. At least the broadcast is good now. They've taken over the broadcast. It looks good on TV, so crack a tin.

and just enjoy it we have got this extra element of the softer tires we've got the c6 and the two stops so i'm going to finish by asking you i'm going to put you as the ferrari strategist here because i think ferrari is interesting because they're going to be I don't know, P7, P8, maybe P6, something like that, if you had to guess where they're going to qualify. And they've got two drivers who will help each other, I think, if they get a chance to. So you've got these two...

stops in your head, you know, what's in your mind? Can we take it on lap one and lap two? Can we save them all to the end? What can we do? So I think Yeah, you're difficult. I think the position you put there, the Ferrari, which is probably actually going to be the most difficult one to kind of come up with a strategy. If you've kind of, for example, qualified totally out position and one of the Ferraris... Let's crash on Q1, for example.

Then I could quite easily say, yeah, I'm going to put on lap 1 and lap 2. You won't put on lap 1 and lap 2. If there's no safety car, because you basically put yourself in a position where you're going to go a lap down. But I can definitely see someone going, yeah, lap on pit. I'm going to get one of my pit stops out of the way because I'm not losing. And there obviously is a chance of a safety car coming up at some point. In the right.

So you can then say, I've got one of my pit stops out of the way, I've got free air, I can catch back up. If another safety car comes out, I pit again, and then I've made my one stop. It also forces other teams to go, oh, they've made their stop. How do we now have to cover that?

Or do we then try and work it around that we undercut them at the second stop or something? But again, like I said, you've got this safety carrier issue. If someone pits Lapua... and the safety car comes out lap three that team is laughing because you then potentially and this is when it potentially comes into play but another car then goes oh i need to support my teammate by pushing this car has already made his two stars

back in the field and prevent him from getting an alarm at teammates to create a pit stop. So I think with Ferrari It's, it's, I don't, you won't. You won't pit on lap one if you're potentially going to lose 12 places. Oh, I see. Or fall behind a competitor who will just push you back. So, for example, the Ferrari will then fall behind.

a Red Bull or a Mercedes who is also our position and they go right we know how to use that car now we just need to block that Ferrari from from creating that gap um and so so if you've got one one driver that's pitted you can use the other one just to fall back and and help out the car so you could you could see some really interesting

strategies coming up here so yeah maybe my my thinking when they brought the extra stop was it's just going to be you know a pit stop that changes nothing but twice i suppose it does give a bit more opportunity to do things I mean, the one thing they haven't closed on is the red flag rule, so obviously that still classes as a set of tyres, so it almost doesn't change anything. Like, for example, if there's a lap on safety car...

Someone goes in, puts a set of tyres on, and then they red flag it after they've come out of the pits. They've done their three sets of tyres. So potentially at that point, and then it's a situation like last year. but then there might be some cars to still make their stop, but it's...

Yeah, so that one I kind of feel they should have closed down a little bit, but you have to make two pit stops, not just use three sets of tyres. But the interesting thing, which is that I think I saw the forecast for this week and it is potentially a bit of change.

and you still have to use, even if it's fully wet, you still have to use three sets of tyres. So that makes it a very different type of monoco, because before you could just fit a set of, if it was constantly wet, you could fit a set of Inters at the start. pretty much make them last the whole race and make no stops because there was no requirement.

But now there is that. And Mike, I suppose it will be more comfortable for you. I know you complained about being slightly further away from hospitality, but you'll be watching presumably from a yacht this weekend and it'll be a little more comfortable. So I won't have to get up to go and go. Mike Caulfield, thanks for joining us and thanks for giving us a great insight into the Monaco Grand Prix.

I think that's the best chat we've had with Mike so far. I mean, that was genuinely like a thrill. He was really open. I've got about eight notes of things I want to talk about, Kyle. Yeah, I've got a few. I've got a few. It was interesting. I hadn't actually considered the teammate interference. No, me neither. I was thinking more about just solo sort of drivers and what you'd do solo of what I would do.

That's a whole different dynamic. So I think a first good thing to talk about is which teams do you think would do that? So I'm going to go ahead and say I don't think either McLaren driver is going to hold up the pack for his teammate. No. Nope, I actually don't think Ferrari will play that game either. Oh, okay, I disagree. I don't know if they're both semi-equal. I'm not sure they'd want to play ball.

oddly i think charles would i don't think lewis would want to i'm not sure oddly okay so this my pre-season prediction was that hamilton would be a team player in that situation so i think you're right if they're like even and fighting each other for the win then no. But if they're trying to improve and they kind of go, well, Charles could jump up to a podium from sixth here. You're in eighth place, but what we really need you to do is back up the pack.

I could see Hamilton doing that. Oh, if it's obvious the right thing to do, if it was a bit, you know, I wouldn't see them just completely asking one of them to sacrifice, whereas someone like obviously Red Bull will just sacrifice Yuki. They'll just be like, do whatever it takes. also Alpine because Colapinto he needs to impress the boss he wants to impress the boss he'll just be

He'll be like, you know, he'll be diving on them. He'll dive on them to protect who else. Surely you're not saying that Briatore would ask a driver to sacrifice his race in order to help his teammate. That's absolutely shocking. Not on a street circuit either. You skip past Red Bull a bit. I think Verstappen could be out and they'd still ask. Snow did sacrifice his race.

Just hold them up anyway. I mean, I think Red Bull would do that if they had a chance to spite another team that they didn't like. They would do that, probably. Yeah, so I could say definitely Alpine would be the sort of team to do it. Has, I think they would. Oh, yeah. I don't know, because they've got Ocon. Ocon and Batman? A known bandit, I think, and Batman, who's trying to make his mark on the spot. I don't think either of a driver would agree to that.

To be honest. Yeah, and because it's not been, they've not had a great season. They've had a few weekends where you've gone, oh, they're looking, they're looking okay. But yeah. If things ramp up between those two, that would be interesting. I think Ocon has fallen out with every teammate he's ever had. Matt's not here, so we can say it. We can... I mean, I should like Ocon. He comes from...

We've been sold the story like he's another one, a bit like Lewis, who didn't come from huge wealth. Obviously wealth, but not huge wealth. So I should like him. But yeah, he has been a bit of a bandit in his past and he has proven to not help his teammates whatsoever. So yeah, I don't think he'll play ball there. And Beerman, I think Beerman is... trying to stamp his authority all over that team, so I don't think he'd want to play ball either.

You do keep saying beer man. I think it's definitely bear man. Is it bear chest? Bear man, okay. Sorry, bear in the words. I mean, I never mispronounce names on this show, ever. I've never mispronounced anyone. Toto. Toto. Yeah, so that's... I'd love to see a team do that now that I'm... Like what you said, I had not factored that in to the equation, but when Mike was talking about that tactic specifically messing up his strategy for... It was science, wasn't it?

We're signing to the team, mate, I think. Yeah, I think so. I really want to see someone do something really clever with these tactics. So yeah, an early pit from one driver. And if you had a one, two, that's kind of a no brainer. So if it was Verstappen, Sonoda, one, two.

Which, sadly, I don't think Tsunoda's got his qualifying act together at the moment. Maybe not. I've actually been really, really, really impressed with Tsunoda, to be honest. I think he's done, all things considered, I think he's been...

Okay. But you're not a fan as such, are you? So I think my expectations, my deluded expectations are high. I'm a realist. I am a fan of Yuki. I do. I like him. Oh, no. So I'm a deranged Tsunoda fan so like I'm willing to put aside reality yeah there was like part of me was going he might go in there and just start like beating Max and and also like immediately not even any kind of gap

Because when you're a fan of someone and you're really hyped for them, you'd want the best for them. So on the one hand, it was like, oh, that's a poison chalice. But on the other hand, it's like, whoa. championship winning team, you've got that seat. If he's a great driver, then he's going to go and smash it. But the light for me is that his qualifying performances have been...

disastrous rather than just a bit crap. Do you know what I mean? So he's like, you know, he had that crash and then he had the big crash last weekend as well. So it's been these sort of win or win mistakes rather than a core. I'm happy with that in a way. Maybe I'm basing it all on that FP1 in Suzuka. I think I'm maybe basing all of it because he amazed me in there and I just think, well, that's it. He's done his job. He's avoided the Lawson fight for sure.

He needs to now clear the Perez thing. And the thing is, it's only been like five races. But at the moment, to me, it feels the same as Perez. Sorry, I know we've diverted. Yeah, but Lawson bringing up, that's really good. So the Visa app. carby things whatever they're called now the the raging balls yeah like they like they So that's going to be an interesting one to see whether they'll play games and play ball because I think Lawson probably...

Would still need to impress his employer. I still don't think his flavor of the month still there still so I think he still needs to really be happy to sacrifice himself and had just been a revelation amazing big fan Awesome. I'd love to see him do well. But you've got to feel for Lawson, so not really feel for him because...

Okay, I'm not going to pretend I feel for him because he scored like four points and then got promoted, did quite badly, disastrously at Red Bull. You could definitely argue he didn't have enough time, but he's come back in and you would hope... that he would at least show that his bit of experience over the last few seasons is enough to be on top of Hajar. And look at all the other drivers that are even experienced in their first... Season with a new team. We're giving Hamilton a lot of slack

We're giving signs a lot of slack, giving them time to catch up. Hadjar hasn't seemed to have needed any of that. And Lawson is still not at Hadjar's level. So it does look bad for... It does look bad for Lawson. And to be honest, Hadjar, where he's like, yeah, he was pretty decent in F2 coming through, but I didn't expect him to set the world a lot. I think Hadjar's doing a bit of like a Kobayashi, like just kind of getting into F1 and just clicking with it.

They just instantly click and you wouldn't have thought he was going to be the revelation of the season. He was. And he suddenly is. He's definitely up there. He's winning the rookie battle this season, isn't he? By whatever definition of rookie you want to use. But I think all of that means that I don't have...

really high hopes that Snowden is going to be right up there with Verstappen in the top five and therefore is going to be holding up the pack for Verstappen to do things. But you can just... I'll go on, carry on. Oh, no, yeah, carry on. I was just about to come in on your point. Oh, well, and I was saying, if you look at the McLaren drivers, I can completely see a scenario where we're all screaming at the...

The TV and going, yeah, but if Norris was to do this now, Piastri's going to win. And they won't do it. And they just won't. They just won't do it. No, they won't. They've got this. The heinous. papaya rules or whatever it is and they seem to just hurt themselves with it. So McLaren seem to love shooting themselves in the foot in the name of fairness. Or they're sticking to their principles of fairness. That would be the more generous way of saying it.

Yeah, it's Formula One, sometimes you've got to win. But I don't, yeah, you have to admire that. There is a thing you have to admire that goes because you are hurting yourselves overall as a company. in the name of fairness, which you could say is a bit silly, but they're definitely not going to be playing any games unless, again, it's really obvious, again, as Mike said, unless somebody has a mare in quality and they're completely out of positions.

And then you blatantly would, but if not, so that's actually having two drivers on the level footing. you could argue is actually a huge disadvantage this weekend. You want an uneven team, you want a misbalance, an unbalance in the team, and that's going to give you a massive strategy. Williams. That's an interesting one. That's an interesting one because they've been qualifying really well. They've been running really high. I think both drivers would sacrifice for the other one for the team.

Because vowels will just tell them. I think vowels will just tell them and that's it. I mean, you'd listen to vowels. V vowels would tell them, but... I don't know. Science has been getting a bit frustrated because he's been doing really, science has been doing really, really well, but the races just haven't quite really worked out for him. And Albon, Albon's developed some sacks.

He's getting some right sass to him as well. And I'm just like, oof. I'm not sure they will play ball, actually. Because I think science is desperate. If science has a sniff to get some good points on the board. He will want to grab it. And Albon, yeah, it's a bit sassy. And now Williams are on the up. They're on the ascendancy. I don't think the desperation to sacrifice themselves to get points is there anymore. I think they know they're kind of established point scorers now.

i think they would have changed from the george remember it was the was it it was hungry and it was george um sacrificing himself to make sure latifi got a point And then almost crying, well, they end up both getting points, but he really hurt himself to make sure Latifi got more points. Those days of Williams are thankfully over, and Williams are on the ascendancy.

I don't think Williams will play ball. The drivers will play ball on that. Okay, so I have been guilty of being a little bit anti-Albon, just in the fact that I'm not generally a fan. So I don't want to be guilty of... I've seen him come in, so to me he feels like a younger driver. He's really not that young. I think if Kimi Räikkönen had been making the comments that Alex Albon had been making, I probably wouldn't have been as harsh.

But Alex Albon is a full proper grown up and he's a celebrity and he's a top level athlete and he's famous. And so him coming on the radio and being very, very clear with his team that he's unhappy. probably shouldn't irk me as much as it has done. And so I want to walk back some of the comments I made on that. He has been good. He has been absolutely solid, and I think he's well and truly proven himself. He got quite a lot of stick and jip, and if you look back to what he did,

When he was in the Red Bull, Verstappen's teammate, I thought he was really unlucky to lose that drive, actually. I don't think he should have done. If you look at your comparatively of what other people did, Albon, I think, did a really good job being parachuted in when he was completely not ready. So, yeah, that's valid.

I just think, yeah, we've seen him kind of lose, not give constructive criticism. It didn't sound constructive, did it? No. Yeah, exactly. Like him losing his call and having some Alonso-type sort of jibes at the team over the radio and getting really frustrated. So, I don't know. It's when that. I mean you can never criticise a driver fully.

uh for you know in the heat of the moment when they're in the car they're on the g's and stuff like that and they can get it but there is definitely a bit of like like really really There's angst there. There's a little bit of angst there I can detect, so I'm not sure who I want to play for. I... Okay, so...

I disagree. I think the Williams drivers will do it ultimately if they're ordered to. But do you remember last year when Leclerc won Monaco? Was that last season? I haven't lost track of time here. Yeah, it was last season because he finally did it. He finally did it and we'll talk about

why he didn't do it in in a previous year in a moment but um signs was so desperately trying to involve himself in that race so like the client was going to win that whatever signs did but he kept going oh well what if i Hold up this. What if I push Lewis Hamilton into the lake and into a yacht? What if I smoke a cigar? Will that help? Will that help Leclerc? And then he ran over. If you watch the footage after the race, he ran over to try and be a part of the celebration with Leclerc.

I can't remember who it was, but somebody physically stopped him and said, like, don't make it. Yeah, it was almost like, you know, we heard what you were doing on the radio, don't make it about you. That was my read. Okay, so almost like main character syndrome. Yeah. Also. Yeah. But also...

He knew his contract was up at the end of the year. So I think he was probably trying to steal himself as this amazing team player probably to say, keep me. So there's probably a bit of that to it. I'm going to rewatch. I'm going to try and re-watch this at some point to check my memory isn't playing tricks on me but I do remember this tone of like

wow, you're really trying to be a part of this. It didn't strike me as genuine. It struck me as quite forced. That was all. He could just be a very nice chap and wanted to... is celebrating the team finally and do that. I mean, I'd like to believe, I'd like to go along with that. It's just a very nice track. Obviously, you know, we're both friends with Alex Van Geen and he will always see the best in people.

And he's like my marker. So Alex would definitely go, no, Signs was just being really nice. Whereas I'll do the cynical thing of, oh, I see what he was trying to get out of that situation. That's a character flaw. That's on me. I'm just saying. That's how I read it. Maria in the live patron chat is saying, come on, don't be cynical. I can't. I don't think I can not be.

But I think Sainz will do it. I think Sainz definitely likes being the team player. The whole thing of when he was out in one of the races and he jumped on the pit wall and helped with the strategy call for Albon. You'd catch that one a few races back.

I think so. He retired and then he was the one saying, no, you've got to pick now. Oh, he loved it. He loved that being part of that. Maybe we are being overly cynical then. Maybe we are being overly cynical. Talk about overly cynical and a bit snarky. Ask them. Oh, here we go. Yeah, yeah. Would Mr Alonso, the self-proclaimed unluckiest driver in the history of Formula One? Good grief. Would you think him and... The potential world champion protégé son of team owner Lance.

How do you think they'll play that? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Would they sacrifice Lance? They surely wouldn't dare ask Alonso to sacrifice himself. I think Alonso likes... the reputation that he's looking out for Stroll and he's mentoring him. So I think he would take it. If you said to him, like, I know it's not going your way, but if you hold up this pack, Stroll's gonna get a podium.

I think he's all over that. I think he jumps all over it. Actually, he could be right, because I remember when he got in the first thing, he was like, we're all happy families. I remember to tell Stroll about the break balance trick and stuff like that. He's trying to nurture him, so maybe, maybe, maybe.

But I don't know. It'd be interesting because actually Stroll has not been that far off Alonso at all. Let's look at the actual performances in Lapton. He's not been that far off. I think they might be very, very close together. Alonso has 0% of Aston Martin's point. This season. But it's because it's the unluckiest driver in history. Nothing goes his way. So here's a bit of a broader point. Some of the drivers play to the camera.

and played to the broadcast, and they're hyper-aware. So I don't get that impression with Albon. I actually do think Albon's pretty genuine, heart on his sleeve. Don't get that impression with Hamilton as well. I think he's in the moment. He might be aware, be careful, because it's going to be on TV.

But some of the drivers really play to the camera, like a soccer goalkeeper who, you know, when the ball is like, it's to the side, but it's at waist height, it's a nice height, and then they catch it and do a tumble over, and then they start shouting at their defence. Schumacher, not Schumacher, Schmeichel. Both of them. Both the Schmeichels did that. So you say Alonso is one. He is aware of his profile that

Who can forget the pit lane dive when someone comes out in front of him and he's wrestling at his wheel. He's soaring at the wheel, like, oh my God, we nearly died. He does that. Russell does that. Russell 100% is playing to the broadcast. We haven't spoken about names, have we? Okay. Oh, yeah, Russell. So would they... I don't think it would sit right with Russell. I'm sceptical that Russell would do that kind of blogging. No, I think he would.

I actually think he would. I'm completely opposite. I actually think Russell would and Antonelli because I think Russell was like Getting a bit worried there's a Verstappen, maybe a round of Mercedes again. I think Russell would fully commit himself. I mean, if they asked him to, I'm pretty sure he'd have a Mercedes sign tattooed onto his forehead if it meant a thing, if it meant he sort of keeps his drive. I think he's... I think Russell would sacrifice himself for the team there and Kimi.

Kimi seems like a very nice lad. I think Kimi would do it as well. So yeah, I think Mercedes will full on go out to help each other if they can. Do you think it's more harmonious? Mercedes now. I'm not trying to do down Hamilton in any way, but obviously a little bit of resentment had built up after three unsuccessful years.

Yeah, and the pressure's off a little bit. Well, pressure's off, but not off as in it's a less pressure environment. You've got a rookie, Kimmy's there, who's not expected to beat Russell. Russell now is feeling more comfortable within himself. As like the team leader, he feels like Mercedes have got faith in him. He's not trying to prove himself.

anymore i think he's slipped into his de facto lead driver role quite nicely and the first few races have really kind of played out that way as well so yeah i think it i think you're right it is more harmonious but i think just purely because of the situation

They've got a rookie in there. I think maybe later on in the season, if Kimi starts to do really well and start to really challenge Russell, it'll become less harmonious naturally. But at the moment, I think it's happy families. Kyle, I think I've made the mistake again. We're building up this as if there's going to be some amazing tactics and stuff going on. It's like the national lottery. It's like a tax on hope. Oh, okay. So...

Right, nothing gives you away as a bit of a posh kid more than saying that the lottery is a tax on stupidity. Because you've nailed it, Kyle. It's not. It's a tax on hope. I thought you were going to call me a posh kid then. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I know you well enough. But when posh kids go, oh, it's a tax on stupidity. No, you don't know. You don't know what it's like to have no future and nothing ahead of you. You buy that ticket and for the...

You buy it from the furthest away point that you can and in that whole time you're holding your hand like a potential escape. I'm glad you said that. Yeah, it's a tax on hope. The Monaco Grand Prix is a tax on hope. I genuinely think it's going to be exciting. I actually cannot wait because I love these strategies. And Mike made a really good point as well and pointed out another thing I hadn't thought about.

wets having multiple stops with the wet tires as well and like the inters and you can run a full wet down to pretty much into a stick because you can almost

It's impossible to overtake us, particularly with this new generation of crud panzer sort of cars. It's just absolutely impossible to go to get around. So that's absolutely fascinating. And I had another little sort of like strategy sort of... uh sort of like potential yeah that you know you're kind of looking for gaps in the field to open up if you're the leader

You would go intentionally slow to make sure no gaps in the field do open up. And then that's going to leave a wide open door for a midfield team like an Alpine or a Haas to try to... consecutive lap stops so it's going to be crucial on friday if the hard tyre if they figure out the hard tyre can go the distance that may be lap three or four just so you don't lose the lap and then do a do a double stop remember the hard tyre is now the c4

the medium is the C5, and the C6 is the soft. So it's not like going on the hard tyre last year. So you're hoping that last year's medium can go race distance minus two laps. Yeah, and actually with that strategy, you would have to push them because you want to catch up the air of the pack.

but then if there is a safety and then safety cars are a massive curveball as well and if so surely if there is a safety car everyone will take that like everyone will take it and the pit lane will just be chaotic Yeah, so I'm trying to figure this out. For that tactic to work, so I meant to say this to Mike, but I didn't get to it, is that the gap, if someone holds up the pack,

then the only teams with a gap are, like you say, the midfield, lower midfield teams. They've got a gap to pit into and then clean air to go and push. That relies on the front cars going slow. If the front cars are stretching it out, then that tactic doesn't work. No, no it doesn't, but it depends who the front car is.

So I think if it's a Verstappen will get out the front, we'll try to sprint and try and go away. And the McLarens will try to sprint and go away. But if something like, well, you have to put your money on Leclerc. He is good at pulling out a Banzai lap. in a Ferrari which probably is not going to have the race pace. then they will maybe try to do, maybe try to hold it up or try to play clever. I mean, Ferrari strategists, you don't.

You never know. Like, they might not. You mean Ferrari strategists like new friend of the show, Francesco Campelo, who gave us the fascinating insights into how you might remove all cooling. to concentrate on quality price, so I'm assuming that you'll basically see no cooling on any of the cars.

Because they all want to get the maximum. Get the gaffer tape out. Yeah, just like, yeah. So behind you, you just see like gaffer tape on it. So I did say we talk about the Leclerc thing from a couple of years ago. where his yeah he was just going like full on win or win he had the highest

or the fastest lap time. He was in provisional pole, and then he went through the swimming pool complex, and he was just pushing, and he ended up hitting the wall. So nothing to lose your Orion pole. Yellow flags come out. He keeps the pole. Do you remember that one? Yeah. We debated quite a lot whether that was an intentional crash or not. And I think, who was it saying? Who was it?

Was it you who did that intentionally and I was like, no way, because he crashed way too hard? I think my thing was there was nothing to lose because you can either get a faster lap or you hit the wall and cause a yellow flag and then...

Your pole anyway. Because didn't he do the classic swimming pool trick of hitting the inside apex breaking track rod and then just going straight onto the barrier on the outside. It's like, I think he may have done that like Verstappen in 2018. Like loads of people we've seen doing it. Yeah, Stroll did it. Yeah, if he did intend to crash or if he was throwing it full bananas and just absolutely going for it, then you have to say it's a bit silly because...

What was at stake is a gearbox. If you change your gearbox, you're losing your pole. Don't you normally think that you're going to hit a wing or the front suspension? It was quite unlucky the way he went in and hit the gearbox. But the real... The real tactical error was then not taking the new gearbox. So they gambled everything. So a new gearbox is five grid penalty. And the gearbox basically failed on the outlet.

uh it was a sighting lap to the ground he instantly felt it but they checked it and they did all check it but to be honest If you start fifth at Monaco, you know, you've got to be honest, they knew that they...

They knew they just had to go for it. They put all their eggs in one basket and it goes, we're just going to take a massive... They said it was calculated. I don't think it was. I just think they just took a huge gamble and said, look, if this comes off, we're going to win Monaco. If it doesn't, we're probably going to be fifth or thereabouts anyway.

I think I made a conscious team decision. Let's just gamble. Let's go for it. Because you can lose a couple of gears. So let's say that gearbox was just stopping you. You had to skip fourth or whatever. They just had seen Ricciardo lose his MGU. I think it was a whole ERS system. I think it was like 300 brake horsepower down. So Mike was saying, yeah, he was running around like six, seven laps slower, and Horner came on going,

Oh, it was a magnificent defence. It's like, no, you just can go that slowly and not lose the pace. But it's not absolutely impossible. to pass. Remember in 2015 the Verstappen amazing pass fest and he was passing left right centre before he absolutely pile drive into Grosjean going into Sandoval. Was he a lap down when he was doing all that?

and he'd already known what he was doing well yes he was he was following the leaders yes that was it to be fair it was genius it was brilliant and i remember getting really excited about it and just being like oh my god like yeah this kid's amazing and then and then whack yeah Yeah, so I think, sorry, I've taken more time of yours than I asked for, Kyle, and I know you've got a dinner waiting for you, but I would like to talk about some more Monaco moments, if that's okay. Yeah, that's it.

I'm sorry. The... People are already mentioning Schumacher, so I wanted to talk about some of the cheats. 2006. Some of the out-and-out cheats, and I chickened out of asking Mike Caulfield about the Rosberg soaring at the wheel thing and the fake lock-up. Because he would have known, he would have looked at that data, and I just didn't want to put him in that position on the podcast to confirm it. But that was...

Nearly as bad as the Schumacher one. At the time, I don't even remember at the time, it was split. People hated Hamilton enough to go, no, that was accidental. including Brundle Martin Brundle in the comms remember that he was like no no no and then later in the season he actually u-turned he was like you know what the more I look at it the more I'm convinced he did that on purpose so here Brad straight away he went I know how old

I know how you do that. And the only reason to soar at the wheel while on the brakes on that straight was not to save it. It was to create an imbalance and create a lockup. Yeah, and this is what I said. This is what it is without doubt. It is black and white. It is without doubt. You see him soaring all the way down into Mirabeau, which is off camera. There's a big lump, and you're unloading the inside wheel.

Anyway, the only way to induce an inside wheel lock up is to soar at the wheel. He just exasperated the issue and he fully wanted to lock the inside wheel. It was so... It was so obvious to me. I was screaming at the TV when that happened.

I was like, look, he's soaring at the wheel. How did EFA let him off? Because he's soaring at the wheel. That's not the worst bit. That's not the worst bit. So, obviously, he's done this because he's up. He's in P1 provisional pole. I don't know if I think Hamilton was on a faster first section. But in any case, he did that, locked up, went into the runoff area, no yellow flag.

So what did he do? He then put it in reverse and went backwards to really be a danger. And then there was a yellow flag. No penalty. Completely got away with that, by the way. Yeah, but the reverse, it was always similar to the Schumacher one back in 2006, and this one hurts me as well. You're a big fan. Yeah, I'm a massive Schumacher fan.

Yeah, it was pretty obvious. He suddenly become Maureen from driving school and the worst driver in the world at... yeah yeah they're fine at the rascas and he he sawed at the wheel and then just straightened up and then was struggling to get reverse and it was a bit comical really the whole act but they again i think there was a lot of resentment for schumacher as well back then as well and they wanted a bit of change and they wanted to a bit like um

Kind of liken it a bit like to 2021. There was like a challenger for him. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he was coming back. Schumacher was ruining F1 in the same way that Hamilton was ruining F1. To be fair, he had lost the championship in 2005, but then... Ferrari on the ascendancy again and I think a lot of people would have oh no no no we don't want this to happen again and they threw the book at him they absolutely threw the book at him but again it was pretty obvious

But I think the Rosberg one was just as obvious, if not more obvious. It was, though. It was just as obvious. Okay, I mean, look, he was up against Hamilton, and I think Hamilton is one of the people who's attracted the most. hate from fans and stuff and I honestly think people We're either out and out lying.

and were going online being like, oh, no, no, it was definitely an accident. He didn't rob Hamilton of Paul, and some people were deluding themselves into it. But I think that's part of the reason that there was a split jury on that at the time. But like certain votes to leave massive trading blocks on our doorstep, you can't find the people now. You can't find the people now who think that it was a genuine accident. But I think it happens way more often than you think.

So yeah, people were sceptical when I was saying that about Rosberg, and obviously the Leclerc one, I'm not dying. Do they have a rule now? Do they have a rule now, Monica? Are they putting in a rule? Because I know in IndyCar there's a rule, isn't there? Yeah, I don't think there is. You lose your fastest lap if you cause...

a yellow flag. I don't think that rule has come in in F1, but chat, just correct us if we're wrong. Yeah, but the really clever thing to do would not be to park it, would be to have Just a little pathetic front ender crash. Actually, damage your car, and then you could argue, well, why does I damage my car? Yeah, just the nose cone. The gearbox, do not do it in the swimming pool, because that's a guaranteed gearbox change pretty much. Like, do not do it there. I don't know, yeah.

Turn in too early at the Rascas. Just clip and knock your right front corner off. What about the Perez one in 2022? And that was coming out of the famous hairpin. Oh, Portier. It was going Portier into the tunnel. Onto the seafront, yeah. Oh, that was... Oh, I forgot about that. That was even worse than Rosberg's because... The natural reaction. And he premeditated and thought about this. And I think this is actually impressive execution. I'm looking up now. With Perez.

Your natural instinct as a racing driver is to steer into the slide. And it almost happens by instinct. You have to be really thinking of, I want to spin round to not steering to override your natural instinct. And Perez managed to override his natural instinct. and if you look at his onboard, he doesn't steer into the slide. Yeah, he just lets it go. I can see that. There's no correction. There's no correction at all. I'm watching this.

that's the dead giveaway and Verstappen was furious about that as well to the point that he then wouldn't help Perez out in Brazil later in the year absolutely and Perez but it wasn't even for Paul wasn't it for like just the head of Verstappen it was to make sure yeah it was to be ahead of Verstappen I mean that is that's a pretty that's a pretty dick dastardly sort of dirty move that

Just because it's not even for pole position. If it's for pole position, you'd be like, okay, I kind of understand. But to override your natural instinct.

Bye. quite impressive again he went he went rear in that's the only kind of or was it because he went in rear like he went in gearbox like you said he went in gearbox first yeah you never want to go in gearbox so like so that's a whole different sort of show like how would you crash effectively without ruining your gearbox at monica you're right just front and in you're locked up you've got to induce a lock up at some point and then just go front and in

Bottas did it as well, by the way. Bottas got a poll. Ah, I need to find, I need to remember what it was. It was Austria. Ah, what was it? It was Austria thrown off into the gravel. Yeah, right, yeah, yeah. Maybe, but there was definitely one where Bottas was in provisional pole and then had this, like, innocuous off where he just seemed to drive off on purpose.

Oh no, wasn't that when both Mercedes went off? I remember both Mercedes went off on their flying laps in, I think it was Austria, but I think Bottas ended up with the pole position and his one was a bit like, hmm, that was a bit odd. He just ran a bit too conveniently wide and into the gravel there. Yeah, so the one you mentioned before that I want to talk about, because I'm aware of the time here, is the Panis.

Right, so you mentioned Harris, Pandas 1996, and I re-watched a bunch of highlight clips about it. My memory has betrayed me on that. I thought six cars finished. It was three. It was only three on the road. Three cars finished on the road. Actually, five were classified. And yeah, so it wasn't the least amount of cars ever to finish, which I can't remember which Grand Prix it was. Maybe something in the 80s, in the turbo era. But yeah, five were actually classified.

So only three finished. So it was Panis who won the race. I think it was Coulthard. Oh, yeah. Wearing Schumacher's helmet. Wearing Michael Schumacher's helmet, which is really cool. He had massive fogging up in his helmet, and he had loads of problems. Because he was actually great mates with Michael Schumacher. They were actually really, really good mates.

which puts more poignancy on the 98 you tried to kill me you know when she went to the bathroom at the spa and stormed down the pit lane like courtard or great mates and they both were shoe butt helmets i believe so it's a sponsorship thing and so schumacher lent him one of his spare helmets and it's really cool if you look at the images it's it's caught hard wearing michael schumacher's helmet

Oh, I feel like that would have stood out in my head more, that he wasn't wearing the St. Andrews Cross. It's a little known fact, really. Yeah, it's a little known fact, but it was clearly Schumacher's helmet. So, it was Herbert as well. I thought it was another Brit. So, it was Panis. Cawthard, Herbert, who crossed the line, and I guess Frentzen and Sarlo were also classified as... No, Sarlo's five laps down. Yeah, I can't remember. It's seven classified, I think.

I was at seven. Yeah, and also Hakanen five laps down and Irvine seven laps down. But Irvine didn't finish. Irvine got punted off by Pannis. By Pannis in the hairpin. Yeah. I remember that in... And that was on board. I remember it was at the time. I was mad how much I remember because I haven't watched this race back for years. I think I've got the full race actually on my hard drive. I haven't watched it back for years.

I think I remember it was on the nose comb camera, I think, at the time. You'd just see his tyre lock up and then just stop. And it was like, then it comes like the thing and it's been shoved in the wall. But that's the thing I was saying, oh, they don't race like that anymore. Like, Panis just fully punted him off. And then there was a three-car pileup at the end.

Ah, yes. So, there was a three-car pile-up after that hairpin, before, what's the right-hander that we just said, where Perez... Portier. Portier. So, before Portier, it was...

Sarlo and Hakkinen and I think Frensen. I think that was a three-car pile-up, yeah. I know one of them was... uh they finished there were so many laps down the person behind them so that's behind them so they did just pull the car in for the last two laps there's no point we're going to be classified in this position so they did just park it yeah yeah i can't remember who it was but i know somebody intentionally parked it the funny thing about that race is even though there was some weather

It wasn't like one big pile-up. It was like this slow drumbeat of mechanical failures. Verstappen hit the wall and then a few engines died. Schumacher because the qualifying lap on the Saturday with Schumacher in his first season in a Ferrari was something else if you watch that online.

It was him wrestling that car. Watch it. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. His quality lap. He dragged that Ferrari, which was, look at it. It was a horrific car. It even looked weird compared to everything else. It was an awful car. He dragged it to pole, but then he made a really bad start. And then the most un-Schumacher mistake ever.

Binned it on the first lap. Yeah. Put it in the wall really hard, he binned it. Yeah, he didn't do that a great deal, but I also think that Kyle is as deluded a Schumacher fan as those people who said that the Suzuka pole from Verstappen was a miracle. a miracle lap in a tractor. So you can't travel. He's an unreliable witness. That was a rocket ship. No it wasn't.

No, it wasn't. And so, Palace won an Elysée as well. Yeah, and it sounds amazing because I think it was a Mugen Honda, was it Yamaha V10? I remember, I just remember the, because it was on Murray's Magic, no, it wasn't Murray's Magic Moments.

video maybe it was i remember him and i remember him going pop pop pop on the throttle and it just sounded amazing and really aggressive and he's still pushing really hard at the end the engines sound amazing coming through um anthony noakes what's the final corner called now or was it yeah it's anthony noakes isn't it i think

i can't remember what it was called but um yeah coming through there and it just sounding absolutely incredible and only three on and just what what a great story because it was crazy i think one of the bridgestone tires Back then, I think maybe. Yeah, the special Schumacher tyres made especially for Michael Schumacher. He was on Goody's, he was on Ferrari. Whatever, Kyle. I'm not listening to any more of this propaganda. Has this show been derailed more or less?

than last week's preview with me and Chris Stevens and Matt. Right, I think we should get to some predictions. Should we put our reputations on the line here? I am absolutely going for just because he's been so phenomenal in Q3 all season. It's going to be Verstappen or Piastri for this one. based on qualifying form because Norris just cannot seem to string together a Q3, so I'm not holding up any hopes at all. But I think it's Verstappen. I think Verstappen is a drumbeat of inevitability.

about this phase of the season. And I feel like he can string together his Q3 lap and then just hold it. Wow. Okay. I'm going to disagree with you because I think... I think they still have an inherent understeer problem in the Red Bull. It doesn't rotate well at low speed unless they can get some sort of crazy setup on it to make it rotate well. I think Verstappen's actually going to struggle. I actually think he'll struggle a bit and I don't think even Verstappen can.

kind of out drive the car a little bit I know you hate that sort of saying when he outperforms the car but you know I think he has been dragging it a little bit this year and I think Verstappen has Without Verstappen in that car, I don't think Red Bull will be anywhere this season.

So I think he's been maximising a very difficult car and I don't think he's got the chance to do that this weekend. So I think you're right with Piastri. I think Piastri clearly. I think that's where my money would be on. Then it's going to be the tactics. I've got spider-sensy tingle. I think there's going to be a safety car, some controversy, and some skullduggery team tactics. And I think someone like... a Ferrari like a Leclerc, maybe a Lewis or maybe even An Alpine.

with tactics can come in and have a shock result. I know you're not the biggest Hamilton fan, but I'm a realist. I'm not afraid to say it as I see it and call him out. I'm not one of these who he can do no wrong. I'm a massive Lewis fan. I followed his whole career. It's always important but also I'm very much a realist with it and I'm happy to call him out when he needs to be called out and unfortunately the last couple of years

I've had to call him out more than I've had to praise him. Yeah, I had to do it. I don't think it was a great weekend last weekend. And I've had loads of stuff from, like, Hanfosi. Oh, you're a Hamilton hater now. Yeah, I'm a Hamilton hater. I've had people, like, accusing me of pretending to be a Hamilton fan just so I can hate on him. It's like, no. It's like, I know it's a good result.

But also, the chips fell his way. You've got to be really good to take advantage of the chips falling your way, but the chips fell your way. What was encouraging was yeah he got fighting he was looking racy and it was and it seemed to work and he needed that because what I did call it at the start of the season I did say I think this this this season is gonna be not spectacular disappointment but spectacularly mediocre if you know what I mean and going to be a bit of a struggle and it's yeah

Kyle, I know what I'm about to say is wrong, so feel free to judge me. When he was chasing down Antonelli, and he never got past him in that first stint, I swear that his helmet was a couple of inches forward. more forward than normal like he was lent in like you know when you lock in in a kart race and you're like

almost like gripping the wheel. Yeah, Van Jean does it all the time. Yeah, like head down because you're really going for it. And in go-karts as well, the aerodynamics, like people do literally duck their heads down. I swear to you, at Imola, Hamilton's head was tucked in and tucked down and he was locked in. That's the big takeaway I'm taking from it. Obviously, you're locked in with the VSC.

I mean, yeah, he lucked into it to a certain extent, but he was fighting and brave enough to start putting the moves on and do it right now. We see him particularly in his last year or two and that. And we criticised him loads and I think I was going mad in the group chat just saying he was way too soft, his risk averse. It seemed like he'd lost the spark and the desire to push hard. I definitely saw a spark. I definitely saw a spark in the body language in the car. Yeah.

Even though the pace wasn't quite, you know, whatever. I think you needed that. My bar is higher for Hamilton. My bar is higher for Tsunoda. I can't apologise for that. My buy used to be high for Hamilton, but now he's on the turn. I think he's on the turn. There's no spring chicken anymore. He's my age. I feel on the turn. How old are you, Kyle?

I'm almost 40. Oh my god, that's so disgusting. You were that breed of young, exciting carters at the beginning of the Myst Apex project and now you're all just middle-aged losers. Oh my god. Yeah, yeah, I know how Lewis feels, you know, and stuff like that, and it's, you know, and even, but I stopped karting and racing competitively and stuff like that.

I knew it when I was getting an 18-year-old to come up. I mean, I started really late. I didn't start until I was 27. And then I was getting beaten by 18-year-olds, and I was like, yeah, you know what? That's why I quit. Do you know why I quit football? It was the league I was playing in. I think they had to be 18. And so these 18-year-olds would come in, and every single year, the 18-year-olds were bigger, stronger, hit harder. They were faster. I'm like...

Where are they making these 18-year-olds? This is crazy. And I think I got to like 36, 37. I went, oh, I can't keep up with these guys anymore. Kyle, so Maria's saying Russell for P1. It could be one of these, like... Back of the front, top end, midfield, great qualifiers that pops up and gets a result. Yeah, that's not a bad shout, actually. That's not a bad shout. Mercedes have been looking pretty good this year, but their upgrade at Imola, they seem to look really good at one lap pace.

But then they kind of fell away in the race. Well, you don't need race pace. And they're getting this mystery which has plagued them for the last couple of years, isn't it? They're like, what's happened? What's happened to the car? Like, we started off really well and just got slower throughout the weekend. That's not a bad shout, but I think this is a wide open goal for lower top 10 midfield. For a win, I think we are talking about...

of the top four teams, though. Yeah, yeah. So we're talking about qualifying is the win. Let's assume that we're talking about that qualifying is the win. Then it's not going to be... I don't think it's going to be Tsunoda. I don't think it's going to be Norris. The one lap qualifying pace, I think Leclerc is more comfortable than Hamilton at the moment. So it's either going to be Piastri...

Hamilton. Sorry, Piastri. Look at my hope. Leclerc, Piastri, Verstappen or Russell. That'll be... Oh, mind you, Antonelli got that sprint pole as well. One of five, one of five. And he is rapid, that's the thing, and Antonelli is young, and I don't think he's not afraid to crash. I think... Antonelli could actually He's a bit like Leclerc, I think. And they called us in... I'm going to get my MotoGP reference in. They called us in MotoGP, take your brain out, lad.

they'll just like or like bite the screen they call it screen bite as you go and just bite the screen just bite the screen take your brain out and just put it all on the line just just just just remove your brain and go for it and i think leclerc and antinelli are drivers who will just

take their brain out and just go do whatever it takes to get Paul. He'll be like... sliding up against the rules it could end in disaster it could be genius flip a coin who knows no i mean we're both we've both done sport we've both uh we both like our poker not to tell too many tales we both like a gamble

So there are times in life and in sport where you have to go all in. You have got those moments where you go, right, win or win. You're 40 love down on your service game. You just go, do you know what? I'm just bringing out the big guns. If we're going down... Let's go down swinging. So it's Jon Snow pulling out his sword with the hordes in the Battle of the Bastards. I can say that because it's the title of a creative piece of television with the horses charging towards him.

Yeah, I think somebody's got to do that. It's just got to absolutely go for it. Go and follow Kyle. Go follow Kyle. Kyle Power F1 on X and on Blue Sky. Go and follow Mist Apex Moto GP. Find that on iTunes and on your podcatcher of choice. And there is a video version so you can go and see their faces. And you can decide who's the best looking regular crew. The Myst Apex F1 or the Myst Apex MotoGP or the Myst Apex Formula E.

There's that as well. Other podcasts are available. Please come and hang out on YouTube and do some comments. We've had some great comments and some interaction in there. We're starting to get some regular... come up there now so yeah i'm good maybe maybe we'll think about maybe maybe next season maybe i'll know it'd be cool to have some live chat doing it when we do it but to have a live chat we'd have to have a live show once you break a thousand

All things are possible. You've hit the magic marker now and people will start telling their friends and you're going to become the most famous MotoGP content creator on the planet. Kyle Power, thanks for joining me. Remember to follow me. Spanner's ready on stuff, and I'm the best one. You should follow me, even if he's doing well. But also, patreon.com forward slash Miss Apex.

Thank you so much to A, the people who continue to support us, but also welcome to our new patrons. It has been a fantastic week for patrons in Myst Apex. I'm very, very excited. Possibilities for us. Missed Apex podcast. Patreon.com forward slash Missed Apex. I beg your pardon. If you want to consider doing that, that would be great. We'll see you around 8pm for the Monaco Grand Prix race review. Until we see you next, work hard, be kind, and have fun this. was Missed Apex Podcast.

That was a rubbish house I think I'm as hungry as And I ate three meals today. Don't eat food. Yeah. Need to go. Need to go. I did have a protein shake. Oh, I see. before we went live. It's 10 p.m. I'm not your dad or anything, but go and eat some food, Kyle.