This is the BBC. This podcast is supported by advertising outside the UK. So give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. This episode of Listen Bitch contains some very strong language, some very adult themes and some very famous pop stars. Welcome to Listen Bitch! Hello, welcome to Listen Bitch. I am Lily Allen. Hi Lily Allen, I'm Mickey Trolliver. And hello, I am Billie Eilish as well. No big deal. I'm in town. Yeah. And we've got some shit to talk about today.
We are. Do you know the concept of our show? I heard the concept. So we did two shows a week. One of them is just us to check shit. And the other one is us taking questions on a theme of our choice. Right. How do you not get in trouble though? Because I know you're like childhood best friends and it's just you talking. We're happening. We try not to listen to the noise. No, but I also definitely get a message from people. Are you talking about me? Yeah, I know that now. I'm like, shh!
So that's how we're doing with that. But we are kind of no filter and it's very enjoyable. I don't know. Personally, I feel like, and maybe you can relate, is that I've done a lot of this stuff on my own. And it's really nice to be able to do something with your best friend because it gives you the confidence and the back. Yeah, she looks mean she's like, yeah, sure, you can say that. Yeah. Thanks. I'll carry on. Do you do that with mum? Do you go mum, can I say? Yeah. My mum is amazing.
She's definitely always looking out for me. So it's not always like, go ahead, say that. It's more like, I don't know if you said say that. You know, protecting, protecting me. Yeah, that's exactly right. This week's theme is ghost. So we obviously are like spiritual supernatural share. But ghosting to be ghosted, which is actually quite a new term. Well, I asked for notes on ghosting and it really is quite new. How new is it? It came in with dating apps. Oh, yeah, I guess so.
That's when ghosting sort of became because people would talk to someone within that realm and then they would disappear. Oh, God. I think if ghosting more on, I feel like WhatsApp crystallized it with the blue tick because that's what I think cuts when you see that, because even if it's my cousin that I trust, I see that she's red and has a little back to my uncle, what did I do to fuck her off? And I'm like, it's just that blue tick. It represents so much. But you feel.
I think I might be a bit of a ghost. Oh, I'm sorry. But it's actually just my ADHD. Like I read something if I'm not like immediately like captivating interested or it doesn't demand a response. And I'm like, I'll do that later. Obviously, forget. Yeah. Is that a you like as well? Yeah, I have. Let's see. Oh my God, are you just. No, really? This is not good. So you two could be close as a needy person. No, we couldn't because we won't respond. This is how many I have. I have.
1993 texts. Stop. That I haven't read. Does it not give you anxiety? The number. No, I gave that up. It used to. It used to. It's really tough because I also like, I want to respond. I want to. I want to do whatever somebody is saying or asking of me. And I just don't. I see it. Or I don't even. Sometimes I don't even see it. But sometimes I see it. And I'm like, hold on. Let me do this thing for. And then I just never. Yeah. Do it. Always forget. Always forget. Yeah. Something might.
Sebi calls me onto the next. I do kind of ghost. I don't ghost my children though. They text me often. And I get right back to them. I want to be. I'm being mean. No, it's like that. You know, they're the only people that I'm like, respond. Respond now. I have to make mental note. But then I will text you and go, why are you going to ignore me? Did I? Yeah. Anyway, should we have a question? Yeah, let's see. What kind of bitches you are? You these kind of bitches?
Are you like me? Just needs more. First question for Nissan Bitch. Hi, this is Helen Souther here up in Edinburgh. Could you actually explain to this old lady, what is ghosting? Is it not just ignoring somebody? What is ghosting? Helen, you've come to the right. Safe circle. Correct. But is it, tell me about what it means in America and in your life?
Well, if I had to explain it to someone that doesn't know, ghosting is when usually on the phone, not always, but it started with the phone when you're talking to someone and you're some sort of back and forth with someone and then you just completely disappear and you ghost them. You become a ghost and you're gone. This is so fun here. You describe this. Like, I'm obsessed with ghosting.
Like just just just how much of a kind of new phenomena it is, but it's based in such old things, which is rejection. Right. And confrontation, incaldis and fear. Oh, gosh. Remember the rapper, the hippo placement rapper? Yeah. So I was like, he didn't go see you. Nope. No, this is a thing. I was really in quite a messy period of my life. Oh. And I was quite into this guy. And, you know, we had a sort of like a back and forth and then it just stopped.
And then a few weeks later, I said to a mutual friend of ours, I was like, oh, can you tell so and so to stop ghosting me? And they got back to me and they were like, he says he's been trying to get hold of you for ages. So I must have like drunk one night blocked his number. That's a good one. Been like, why is this bitch not going back to me? Yeah. As you blocked all pathways. That's a good trick. Self-ghosting. Self-ghosting. Never heard of it before. Incredible. Have you ever been ghosted?
Yeah. Because also on my notes, it said it has to be ghosting is only in a romantic setting. Although I think people ghosted for a while. Oh, no way. Oh, no way. I've been ghosted for sure. I had a crazy ghosting happen actually this December. Shut the fuck up. It was insane. It was the craziest one. It's probably the craziest one that's ever happened to me. It was so, I was like, did you die? Did you literally die? It was like somebody that I'd also known for years and had a plan.
Day of on the phone making a plan, this is my address. Be there at three. Never heard from them again. Never heard from them again. It was literally, I couldn't believe it. I was like, what a fucking little pathetic man. What a tiny little man. Also, and then I was like, I'm saying, sure. No, it wasn't. It was literally unbelievable. To this day, never texted me again. Somebody I already, I had known for like, I want to know why. I did see that he was dating someone. Oh, okay.
And then I was like, oh, but I didn't know people still did that. No, I didn't. I genuinely didn't know people did that. It's this real quick one for everyone and everyone in the house. Billy's team, you might be this. When someone shows you who they are, believe them. The first time. Don't make them show you again. I don't know. I feel like I've done some really mean nasty things and I've changed. Shit. I really get that really. That's what makes it worth. Yes, okay, okay.
When someone shows you who they are, believe in the first time. Unless. It's really. Unless you can see any signs of growth, which is rare. I know it's true. But also, there's like a quote my mom always says, it's true. But also, there's like a quote my mom always says, it's something like, you know, when someone like friend dumps you or like makes a big dramatic, like, fuck you, I'm literally, you know, they are, they almost always are doing you a favor. Oh, yeah, yeah.
That's what I've learned. Say thank you. I know. I think what's difficult, you might have experienced this with the person that did this to you, that's Christmas, but I think what's difficult is to be left with everything. So when someone says nothing and disappears, you are left with all the questions. Right. And that is a very hard thing to just brush off because there are no answers. There is just silence. I really hate cowards. That's my thing. That's my thing.
Any type, and when I smell somebody being cowardly, it just makes me so furious. And the problem is that sometimes that's what ghosting is. It's just cowardly. Yeah. It's just like being afraid of like saying how you first say saying something, you know, but to not spare the person of waiting is that that would be the intent where the intent lies because when I was ghosted, I believe that the fact that I was left with everything and was waiting in some ways didn't bother them.
So that I think that takes a certain type of person. It sits with you and you don't want to put someone through that. Always just say, bro, I'm not feeling this. But sometimes it's important to ghost others. They don't deserve your breath anymore or your time. Sometimes you just kind of ghost people. That's right. Sometimes it's clean. I've ghosted people and it's a little mean. Yeah, but you probably felt that because you're not actually an asshole. Do you know what I mean?
It's like whoever goes someone goes, oh, whatever. Yeah, that's true. That's true. You felt that ghosted people that like, I know it hurt them, but I'm kind of just like, I don't want to talk to you. I don't want to do it for the whole time too. Have you done... Sometimes ghost my personal trainer and my therapist? Right. See? Yes, but it happens. Right. Question please. Mine's a ghost story. I've been living in my house now for 20 years, bought it off of a family member that passed away.
And in the first month of living in the house, I was home alone in the bathroom brushing my teeth. When I felt a tap on my shoulder and someone say, mummy, yeah, shit my pants. Don't really know what to make of that. Never happened since. Interesting. What are we supposed to do with that? Yeah, there's no question. It's just a story. What is this? This is a story time. Have you ever had a, what's it called? A night terror. I mean, yes. No, no, no, no. Every Thursday night with you.
No. That's yeah. A night terror is different than a nightmare. Exactly. A nightmare is like a bad dream, whereas a night terror is when you're like screaming in your sleep and you have like... The suck keep us thing. That's sleep paralysis. Okay, silly paralysis. I've had that. I've had that. That's what I've had. Is this someone taking on my chest? Yes, yes. Where you can't move. Yes, but it's sleep paralysis. I haven't had that.
It's very deep because I was having it really badly in my mum's house, which is a place you should have been really comfortable in the back bedroom. And it was like, I would feel like a nail of an animal of some kind. Sort of take a long scratch down my arm. So I started looking into all that suck your bursts. I mean, if you see, if you see like the old depiction of it visually, it's literally like a woman with this evil troll sitting on her heart on the top.
But I don't know the origins of where all that we're talking sleep paralysis, right? This is sleep paralysis. So when you had that, you couldn't move at all. Not at all. Yeah. It's a whole group. It's the worst thing. What I like talk to people who've never had sleep paralysis about it. I can't, I'm like, you actually don't know how horrible it is. It's truly like the scariest thing in the world. I've never had anything like that though.
I've never like seen a goat, any sort of like creature or felt anything. Have you? Sleep paralysis a lot in my 20s. A lot on planes as well. Yes. I then figured out I read somewhere and it really works. Wiggle your toes. Oh, because that's how you can bring yourself out of there. Is wiggling your toes. Because the big part of it is you, it's like locked in syndrome. You're there and you know you're suffering, but you have to wait to be taken out.
Yeah. So wiggle your little, big, big, big, big toes. I thought it was more like burn things and burn sage to get a bit evil spirits. No, wiggle your little toe. Wiggle your toes. Ha. Have you guys ever had something like that though? Happen? A freaky, scary. Yeah, I had once, I was really young. I think I was probably like six or seven and we would go on a way to like a country house, like with my grandparents, my aunt, my uncle, and my nan and granddad were in the room right next door to me.
And there was like this crazy storm in the night. And I was in my bed and I was absolutely terrified and the lights didn't work. And I was like, I'm just going to get up and I'm going to go and switch the lights on. And I had to like really like get the, the wills get out of bed to go and switch the lights on. And I did, the lights wouldn't go on. And so then I was just stuck there like absolutely terrified. And I thought my nan and granddad are in the room next door.
I'll just scream really, really loud. So I scream really, really loud, nothing. And then I felt like got the like you know courage to go next door and wake them up, went in there. And they were both sat there with the lights on reading the newspapers. They hadn't heard me screaming. It's like in the sixth sense where it's like you were dead. Or the whole thing. Or they just couldn't hear my voice and hear my screams. People were like, where were you taking for them to not hear that?
I don't know. Don't you hear screams? Yes. I mean I was very young. Like you know, I could have like created the whole thing. I just remember it was like I remember thinking there's something here that's stopping me from being able to be heard. Let's move on. Next question. Don't wait. They're usually questions. Thank you for the ghost story. That was nice. But we're not just having like a campfire ghost session. Really a question. So come on, lick our question now. Come, come.
Hi, Lily and my name is Alice. I'm from Gloucester. My dad unfortunately passed away when I was 17 turn in 18 and I was living in his house. And I kept like smelling his smell and hearing how he would walk down the hallway, but he wasn't there. And a few times I like caught glimpses of him in the corner of my eye. And I just felt his energy. I just knew he was there. So my question is that you ever had anything like that happen to you from like a friend or a loved one or something like that?
Thank you for your question. I don't know, but my mother said her brother passed away when she was when he was 25 and everyone, our parents were like 23 and it was a really big death that broke the entire family because they were such babies. And I think my mom had to do a lot of dealing with what happens when you lose people very early. And she said it does feel like they go into the ether and they kind of surround you.
Right. I don't think I've lost someone as close, well, I know I haven't as a brother or a parent. Have you lost anything like of those levels? No. Like grandparents? No. I didn't really have any grandparents. So I never, I really haven't lost, you know, if you're not gone wood. Like anyone I've been close to. And like this is it I've heard this kind of thing, you know, where you lose someone so close to you that meant so much to you and there's like little things like that that happen.
I think that's gets so insane. I don't know. It's interesting though because to me it's really scary, but I feel like when people talk about it, like that I don't forgive me if I'm wrong, whoever just said all that. But it seems not scary. It seems more like comforting, I think, for a lot of people. And I think it absolutely would be. Yeah, I can imagine. The weird thing about death of it is that it makes you think about how magical and ridiculous even existing is in the first place. I know.
We were even here and then we go watch it's going on. It breaks it all up suddenly. It's like, oh no, now I don't understand anything. I know. And it all just fucked up. Like I actually can't believe there's a day where one of us will die. Don't say that. And like I have to live this life without you. Like that's it meets just. No, why is she here to die? And I think it won't be me first. I'm like.
No, but you know, I mean, it's like imagine if death scared us too much to get close to people, the idea of using them. Because it's so scary that it could be enough to make you not even want to love. Better to have loved and lost than never to have loved and lost. Well, actually, maybe a good and dark, but I had a son who died who didn't make it before Ethel was born my first oldest daughter. So when George died, I was pregnant with Ethel three months later.
And I always like mourned the fact that I'd never met him or got to know him or got to know his parents. And I did some trauma work with a shaman quite recently. And this came up was that I was sort of like mourning this like non-existence of this character. It means so much to me, but there's nothing like tangible to hold on to. And he said that Ethel, my daughter, it wouldn't be physically possible for her to have been here if he'd have gone full term.
So that he sort of exists within her oldest child. I've never thought that about that like that. That's amazing. Did give me a lot of comfort. I'm so glad. Damn. Next question. Yeah, there's another question. Next question. Hey, Lily, hey, Makita. My name's Michelle. I live in a small village in a small town in Somerset. I have a question about ghosts and more so ghosts from your past. So I'm nearly 40. I work in a primary school. I'm a teaching assistant.
And but prior to this, 15, 20 years ago, I was very sort of bar-heavy cocktail waitress. All that kind of stuff for years. And I sometimes think about whenever there's a new intake of children, is there going to be a dad that is like, oh, I know that woman. She used to dance on the bar and give up shots. And here she is. She's going to be a teaching assistant for my child. So do you ever think about that now from your wilder days to what you're doing now?
You know, you're different circles, like Lily with parents. Makita, you know, new job roles. Do you have a bump into someone? I think, oh, God, they've got this, this image of me. Or do you not care? And it's like, that was then this is now. Wow. Good question. Does it change? Does that affect us all differently? Because there are different ages. Because with, I'm 40, Lily's 39, and you're 23. 22. 22. So how much dirty part, are you still making your dirty parts? Just a minute.
I kind of just be kidding. Just be kidding. Yeah. So fresh. At the start. Yeah. Kind of did just start. But I do feel like anyone who met or knew me in like, 2018, I'm a little bit like, a little bit. But I also appreciate all the different kinds of versions of ourselves. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's, you know, it makes you who you are. What do you guys, what's your worst ghost? Oh, God. I can't even just like, of ourselves.
I just, I have such a, like, low sense of self-worth and shame around how promiscuous I was in my 20s that if you, you know, you meet someone, you're like, I recognize that person. My brain immediately goes, yeah, you probably slept with them. Yeah, probably. Probably slept with them. Is the British, do you really have like, shame about the fact that we had sex or were young? You ever read it down? Like, you could write them all down, if you want. No, I couldn't. Absolutely, look at that.
You mean the list. So I've tried to put a lot of my talks about this. I love a good list. We did a reframe on the list, which is, well, it's basically you can't change the past and you can't change it. You can't change anything. I can't even ever want to. So all those people do make up your life, for your sexual life. So to write down the list rather than every name be some shameful embarrassing memory. Right. It's just that these are like just bits that make up your history in memories.
Unfortunately, for some. Okay, we can do the list. Do you think you remember all of them? Absolutely not. Because also it might make mental listen. And sometimes I'll be, like, I'll just remember a night and I'll be like, oh, I know. I think that's tight. I think that the shame around that is so unfair and stupid. And I just don't believe in it. Agreed. I think that I've lived with that shit. I'm coming to a point because I'm doing a lot of work myself. I've been sober for five years.
There's a lot of forgiving of my behaviour. The stuff that I used to carry around. I'm letting go of. So I do feel like I'm getting better. Yeah. But what about being really famous? Is there space to be messy? Like, I mean, your Chinese, I'm in a bit very well documented and so was our mess. Yeah. And we can't, unfortunately, we can't erase Google. But what about you, Bini? Now, is there space to be messy or naughty? Honestly, I gotta be real.
I think that becoming famous at such a young age almost protected me from the messiness of, like, past. Because I became famous when I was like 13, 14, 15, 16, 17. Yeah. Which made it so that I kind of couldn't really do insane messy stuff. Which then meant I didn't have much of a teenage life. But I don't think I'm messy. I think if you know how to move through the world, I also like, I feel like getting famous young made it so that I was able to understand how to move through the world.
And like, right, yeah, to be able to find my ways of being messy within my life, but not within like other people's lives or like the world. You know what I mean? I do. You know what? I have to reveal something. So last night, I cried. No way. Because I was like, you know, I tend to ignore stuff and then I got an email about today and the people that were coming with you and, you know, just things that were on your rider or, you know, just normal stuff.
And it just catapulted me back to a time where, you know, what you're saying is that you felt protected within what it is that you're doing where I felt completely opposite.
So like the idea of like my mom even like being anywhere near me when I was working is like so far and the idea that people were thinking about like healthy snacks like to keep me nourished like I felt like I was lost and navigating this insane world under, you know, and it's not even half of the like sort of microscope that you live your life under. But yeah, I just I suddenly felt like very sad. My youngest self, I was trying to bring up. No, it's triggering.
I was Henry, it's my grandmother who lives in this house, was like, are you okay? And I was like, Oh my god, I'm happy. But I'm glad you had a good cry about that because your younger self needs that hug from you. We're doing some healing because if you want to just as bitty, surely you do know what it's like to do all of this without that. Oh yeah, and how hard that would be. No, I know. Well, it also it's it hasn't all been smooth. I have had a lot of that.
But I think like I do have an amazing mom and I have an amazing family and I do have a team that does look out for me and I'm like so lucky when I think about like people that came before me and oh my god, also the world is a little bit different than and I don't know, I feel so much empathy and also I really get it like I really I know what that feels like.
I'm really lucky that I have people that look out for me, but it hasn't always been like that in every I'm very happy for you do yeah by the way, I didn't tell you the billy thing we have a dog. Yes, and also my name was Billy for the first few days of my life, which I found out today, which is really my I was called Billy and then my mom was like, no, she doesn't read it like. Yeah, she's a little bit. She's lily, Makita's middle name is Billy. Yeah, and your name is Billy.
I know you heard that Billy holiday after wow and your billy is after anything will just they love my grandfather that I never met. Oh yeah, they're with the ground parents. Yeah, there they are. Okay, we're going to take a little break because it's getting hot in here. Oh yeah, it's getting hot in here. We'll be back with some more questions about ghosts after this short break. Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we like to do the opposite of what big wireless does. They charge you a lot.
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Welcome back. Can we have our next question, please? Hi, Lily and McEater. This is Ali from Hastings. I personally have never had a ghostly apparition or experience or anything, although some family members of mine have in houses I was living in. I find it so real shame because I love everything to do with the supernatural and horror, especially films. I just wondered if you did and if so, what is your favorite scary movie?
I like that question. I feel the same because I've never really had a supernatural experience, but I believe in them. Really? And I'm also so scared. I'm so afraid of something happening, but I want to see it at the same time. Yet I was a kid. I was completely mortified that I was going to see something. And somebody who has had a lot of supernatural experiences did tell me once that I was probably so opposed when I was a kid because I was completely just so terrified
that I probably repelled it somehow. Wow, that's some powerful shit. I know. I know. I know. That's quite mean feet. Are there any films that you, because remember Phoebe watched the Omen when we were too young or cousin? Wow. And it fucked her up for Asia forever, I would say, actually. I think she's still fucked up. Yeah, my sister made me watch Candy Man when I was way too young. And that was a bit more. I couldn't sleep for about a year.
I go back into my mom's bed. I forget to sleep. Yeah, well, I think there is something weird about what you're most scared of. I get quite obsessed with looking at. And I know it's going to fuck me up. I know. But I just need to know more in a way you want it. You kind of want to be close to your greatest fear to see how strong you can be with it. Yeah. Face the wants to maybe. I remember in Candy Man being like, I can't watch this anymore.
I don't want to watch it. And Sarah being like, if you don't, and you'll be even more scared. What? If you don't watch the end, if you don't like let it resolve itself. So not logic. Why you strapped it is over. You're fucking watching it. Basically, no, I love horror movies. And I went through a period of wanting to watch every single one. But then being terrified and I couldn't sleep. And then I wanted to keep watching it. Exactly. But they like really get me.
Like they're, they're, they're spooky. What do you find scary? What stuff scares you? I've always been like really freaked out by like possession. Like when people are possessed. Yeah. Yeah. There's something about it where when someone in a movie is like their eyes turn a different color and their voice is like, right, right, right. And they're like, same crazy shit. So don't watch the end. Because it's like the devil. That is so scary. So the devil's stuff is gets you. It kind of gets me.
But I think it's also hot. So I think that's what I'm saying. It's like, do I want to fuck them once more? Am I scared of it? And actually, I'll just say. This is my whole life. Right. Well, to heart back to the sleep paralysis when that animal was drawing its nail down my arm. You were like, it was a weird bomb. And I went to like have sex with it or do you know what I mean? No, I'm not. I was going to say not really. It's just my super nice journey. I don't like jumpy things.
I'm not really that scary. I'm like, it's all scary. Yeah, I'm just I'm such a worse like even my phone ringing sometimes. I just have one head you are. I'm like, fuck it. Yeah, I'm in the kitchen and you're like walking and I'll be like, I live. Oh, you get startled easily. I'm a real. My child's best friend is like that. Literally anything, anything she screams. There's a really funny Catherine takes. I've tried to find it on YouTube. You can't find it.
Where she's sitting in the living room and she's got the Christmas tree. You know, with the flashing lights and every time the lights flash, she's like, I got it. Next question. I'm so glad that you mentioned ghosting. Voice note to you right now feels like I'm just voicing a friend. However, I am currently being ghosted by my best friend. The best friend he was my mate of honour at my wedding. Probably ten minutes ago.
And on Christmas day we had a really nice phone call, since each of us in photos. And after that I've not heard from her since. I messaged her her in years. I messaged her just throughout the months. I heard nothing from her on my birthday. And yeah, I just do not know what's going on. I'm at a point now where I try to communicate with her. But I feel like she doesn't want to talk to me. I've tried to phone. I've tried to voice note. I've tried to WhatsApp.
I've even spoken to her partner and her partner has just said she's going through a funny phase at the moment. But he also said I could not let her know that I had messaged him and reached out to him. I have no idea what's going on. It makes me incredibly sad because so much is happening in my life right now. And I can't talk to my best friend about it. I don't even know if she is my best friend anymore. Anyway, sorry for the bad brown noise. I'm running around as always.
But I just saw this and I was like, I have to messaged. Jesus, do you know what we're talking about romantic love? But if it was me and Lily, if she did that to me, I would... I think it would actually cut a different kind of deep rather than a boy. Like to have a friend. Yeah. Friend breakups hurt worse than anything in the world. First of all, can we make sure that the partner of this girl didn't literally murder her? Yes. That was me. I was like red flag. Like hang on a second.
I don't know that she's not dead. Yeah. And she's the ghost. Oh, my God, Lily. I thought that maybe the husband and the friend had an affair. Oh, wow. I feel like... No, you think mother, cold blood. That's a really worrisome one. That's not a normal one. Because I feel like, you know, a friend kind of break up or whatever. Like it's usually like a happy birthday. Thank so much. Hope you're well. Kind of thing. Yeah. But then they don't want to see...
Like it's usually a little less harsh than just completely MIA. Forever. Yeah. Have you ever done a friend's coal? Because I did one. I needed to. What does that mean? Oh, my God. Macheeter's had some of the worst friends. Oh, no, no. There are so many people that can be upset with you. I've done creepy things. I'm saying that literally. I just have a lot of... I've accumulated more people over the years than Lill. And I've been a little less picky, you know, whatever anyone can come in.
Macheeter will be like, meat, Porsche. I'm like, my Porsche. No, no, no. No, no. No, no. No one will pull. No, I've got friends with the horrible friends. It's okay. I got a horrible friend. They're all our friends as well. We share the same family. Actually, I'm not. And you don't talk to any of those people anymore because I was right. No, no. And I have a good judge of character. So the guy, no thank you. So I did a culp it. What do you mean?
Like, I was just like, who do I actually like want to spend time with? If I don't want to spend time with people, then I'm just going to stop spending time with people. And, and feeling like I had to, this wasn't going to be... Feeling like I had to get back to people later. I have to say, though, Macheeter had to have 40th birthday party a few weeks ago. And I was so shocked like the... The people from the past still showed up. I was like, I have not kept contact with anyone.
If I had of my 40th birthday party, which I will in a year. I will have literally my kids, my husband, you, me, me. My mom, Phoebe, that's bad. Oh, so, right, family. Yeah. You were so... This is quite an interesting thing to talk about. Like, old friends, I find it like... I find it terrifying to feel like I'm not going to be close to someone that I was close to when I was like, I know. I was like, nine. I don't know why I find that stuff so important, but I really do. In a way that you don't.
But... But that's why the cold was even harder. But now, I love everyone in my life. Everyone's nice. It was really great. It was really nice to see everyone. Everyone was like, in really good spirits. And you were alive. And like, wanted to show up for you. But you were very good at maintaining your relationships. You're a good poster. And now, I think it's like the ADHD thing. And also because I live in America. And I have... You'll say married kids, you know?
I mean, that's the whole difference. Yeah. But it's a better time to like, gov, than other people. And actually, I do when I come back to London and my kids aren't here. That's when I reconnect with everyone. What about old mates in your life? Because you got so busy so early. Yeah. Well, I lost all of my friends when I got famous. Like, literally, all except like one. My best friend Zoe, who I've been friends with, I was like two. And she is still like my girl. She's like...
Probably I have a podcast with her as well. I know. So cute. I thought that when I heard you guys were childhood best friends. But she's the only... Pretty much the only person that remained, you know, just like... I suddenly was famous. And I couldn't relate to anybody. And it was really hard. Did you try, Vity? Did you try and like sort of cool people when you go back to the tour and people just like weren't on stage?
I tried, but I think I felt resentful that I didn't feel like... I don't know, I was so young. Everything I felt that then, I don't think I would even stand by. You know, literally the world was being handed to me on a silver platter. Like, would you like this? I actually met you and you were really little. Oh my god. Dinner for Rolly. Do you remember those electronic pianos? And your brother came to a dinner here. You were wearing all yellow.
Well, in a restaurant, yeah, but I wasn't sitting like two seats down from me. And I remember... Did you talk? No. I just remember just thinking, oh my gosh, this girl's got like a real air of like... Something about her. Something about her. She just stares at it. She's gov, I love her. Yeah, I was, but I didn't have any friends. I didn't go any time. I was alone. Yeah, and so, honestly, all of my friends became my employees, which I felt like was fine. And I was like, what do you mean?
I have friends. I have so many friends. And then, it was like my 20th birthday. And I remember looking around the room, and it was only people that I employ. On the paper. And I was like, hmm. You know, in all 15 years and more, older than me. And one of my best friends, like who worked with me quit out of the blue and didn't talk to me. And like it was the worst thing that happened to me. And that made me realize like, oh, wait. This is a job. Right.
And these aren't really people that are like if they left me, they wouldn't ever see me again. And I kind of had this realization like, oh no. I might be actually a lone for real. So since then, I've become very distant in that way from people that I work with. And I have a very weird relationship to being friendly with people that I work with because I'm very freaked out by loss. And I have a lot of abandonment problems. Also, like then I would get into relationships.
And then my, that would be my only friend. I would be like in a relationship. And that would be my one friend. Even if it was like a relationship, I didn't necessarily really want. And after a second, I'd be like, well, they're all, that's all I have. And then I worked really hard on like friendship and making friends and making new friends and rekindling old friendships. And about exactly a year ago, I like, I reconnected with a bunch of old friends. And now I have so many friends.
I have a crew now. I have two friends. I could literally cry about it. It's been like the greatest thing that's happened to me. I was at Coachella almost two months ago. And we went to this party and we got back into the car and actually like security that has been with me forever would be like, Billy, you have like friends. I'm like, Billy, there's like other people with us right now. And Phineas was like, Billy, look how deep you're rolling. I was like, I know.
And we get in the car after this party. And my friends were like, what's going on? Are you okay? It's totally fine. They were like, are you tired? And I was like, no, I'm fine. And I burst into tears. And they were like, what's going on? And I was like, guys, I have friends. And I, you, I was like, I just, I love you guys so much. And it's been so long since I've had friends. And I cried. And they like held me. There's like a photo of me. My friend Alex like hugging me.
And I'm like crying looking into the camera. And I was like, I actually have friendship now again. But you did it for yourself as well. Like you like, oh yeah, no, I could go on again. I could not go on. Right. I couldn't go on without friends. My friendship is like the best part of my life. And what's interesting, and it's funny that it's you literally in smile, you have that line that's with a little help from my friends. I found the light at the tunnel at the end.
And I was just like, want to cry hearing that line, because I didn't feel that way, because I didn't have friends. And I remember thinking like, I want to feel that way. And I want to listen to this song that I relate to in every way and hear that line about friends and be like, my friend got me through it. And instead I was like, my friends, broad-dogging light. Well, when that never came out, I was like, she fucking better be talking about me. I was bad for that breakup. Right? Yeah, yeah.
Thank you for this. Thank you for that. I didn't know I wanted to talk about friendship. And that was really interesting. And I've sort of done something similar. I didn't really think about it like that. You know, when you go out intently to get your people back in your life. Yes. It feels good. It's also so much work. Yeah. And it's hard. And I feel like it's the only beginning. And I can't believe I'm saying that. But I feel like I found my people. And I'm going to just keep finding them.
That's really great. Hard, pretty collecting. Really great. It's really good to have meaningful. It's one of the, when my first marriage broke down, we used to haunt me that like, you remember my wedding and how packed it was. It was like, you know, 350 people or whatever. And when things hit the fan and I was in a really, really bad place, no one to be seen.
And so I would just, my brain would go back to that day and think about how much money I spent on that day, how much of a good time everybody had. Why these people were on the like list to come and watch our knock jaws in the first place. And none of it meant anything. They were all just like gone. Yeah. I'm just going to be one of those there. They're literally a handful. It's so important. But Billy has to go. I do. And we have to say thank you for coming in and dropping by.
I'm really, we do one thing. Yeah. Because every week one of us comes up with the theme for next week. Billy is never prepared. There's no way you'll prepare this week. Is it my week? I don't see. Okay. What about, what about, kink? Oh, I love it. Thank you, Billy. You're welcome. The theme for next week's Listen Bitch is... Kink. Oh. She's done this. She's both country. She's both country. Thanks for listening to Miss Me with Lily Allen and Makisa Oliver.
This is a Percephonic production for BBC Sounds. Spenny, we've managed to rinse all of my contacts now for this podcast. Well, fortunately my black book bulges more than usual. Hey, hey, wait, it's quality. Not quantity, my friend. You keep telling yourself that. I'm Spencer. And I'm Jamie. You're in us in our mission to reach a celebrity and find new friends using six degrees of separation. Who do you think we will snatch next? All will be revealed.
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