Shazi Visram

huff his neck. He's really like a sort of labrador, just sort of I was gonna say, I do that to my dog's ears. There's like a gaminess. Yeah, he just wanted lives right in there. It's the right, whether neck meets the back of their ear, it's exactly right. And by the way, one day I'll write a paper on the parallel between labradors and boys, and that having a labrador is a really good precursor to having a baby boy. Hello, I'm Mini driver. Welcome to the Mini

Questions season two. I've always loved Cruce's quest Jeanette. It was originally a nineteenth century parlor game where players would ask each other thirty five questions aimed at revealing the other player's true nature. It's just the scientific method, really. In asking different people the same set of questions, you can make observations about which truths appeared to be universal.

I love this discipline, and it made me wonder, what if these questions were just the jumping off point, what greater depths would be revealed if I asked these questions as conversation starters with thought leaders and trailblazers across all these different disciplines. So I adapted prus questionnaire and I wrote my own seven questions that I personally think a pertinent to a person's story. They are when and where were you happiest? What is the quality you like least

about yourself? What relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? What question would you most like answered, What person, place, or experience has shaped you the most? What would be your last meal? And can you tell me something in your life that's grown out of a personal disaster? And I've gathered a group of really remarkable people, ones that I am honored and humbled to have had the chance to engage with. You may not hear their answers to

all seven of these questions. We've whittled it down to which questions felt closest to their experience, or the most surprising, or created the most fertile ground to connect. My guest today on many questions is Chassi Visiram. Chasi is an extraordinary American entrepreneur, investor, and philanthropist, probably best known as the founder of Happy Family Organics and Healthy nest To, companies, which were started with the purpose of helping parents raise

healthier babies. Chassis work has been influenced by her own parenting experiences, raising her son who is on the spectrum of autism, and her daughter who is neurotypical. We had such an interesting conversation about rinting and about life and about being a woman who works. And I find her incredibly inspiring because she's she's one of those people who we say in the back of our mind, how do they do it all? And she's vulnerable enough to let you see that she can do it all, but it

is very, very hard. It was a great conversation. I hope you enjoy it. What question would you most like answered? This one's easy. You know when you like blow out a candle and make your wish. My wish has been for nine years now and it will always be until it's answered. Is what is going to be the novel therapy that heals my son of his artism, that allows him to be independent. What is it going to be?

Because I have watched in the last year and change this world come up with COVID vaccines, COVID treatments, to a pandemic that has rocked us all. But I have watched in my own life this epidem make of autism skyrocket. When Sane was diagnosed, it was one in a hundred and sixty eight and actually April one of last year, the CDC in the US released data it's two years old. Based on so before it was one in fifty nine

and now it's one in fifty four. And that happened in two years, so I'm looking at one in fifty four babies born in the United States will get a not to some diagnosis. And remember it's a spectrum. But in my world, the spectrum is one where I fear for the worst and hope for the best, and I just I want my son to be independent and be able to show his gifts because he's actually the smartest person in the world, but he's stuck in this body

that doesn't allow him to show that. You know, sometimes a lot of times given the prevalent that like the hyper prevalence, and those numbers are just shocking that you just said, why do you think there isn't the research and answers to those questions? When you're right, when people get motivated and galvanized, we can come up with extraordinary stuff.

So why do you think they haven't around this? Well, I mean, I'm not a neuroscientist and I'm not a geneticist, but what happens is, you know, let's say with the COVID nineteen, you have a virus that you can identify. We know what it looks like. It's very specific. With the autism. Autism is the result is a set of symptoms that present based on a trigger. And I think for every unique being, the trigger can be very different, and it's every genetic and it's a confluence of so

many things. So you don't think it's just environmental, like there's been so many theories as to what it is. I do think it's environmental, but there are a trillion things in the environment that can make a difference and also your specific genetic makeup makeup right that is evolving based on how it's interacting with that environment. So it's

a moving target. And yet there are things, and I can only speak from my friends who have children on the spectrum, the things that I've seen firsthand that make a difference, Like food can make a huge difference. I've seen that one. Because that's one of the many things that you could say are sort of ancillary to having this diagnosis, is that, like I believe it's almost half

of children with autism have gut issues. And if the tissue of the brain is the same tissue of the gut, and if there is inflammation in the gut, there can or will likely be inflammation in the brain. So removing things that are a trigger from inflammation is certainly like step one. I mean, that's like table stakes, you know, it's like gluten and dairy uh, you know, our triggers for inflammation. And I've seen it make a massive difference

behaviorally that one wouldn't immediately think. But there's so much more. And we've done so many different therapies and some are wows for us and some have zero effect, but they might be a wow for a friend of mine who has you know, because if they say, if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism. Oh god, it's frustrating. It's frustrating that that's how it is. But that's my question, and I know we can answer it. I know some things that can either per event or

ameliorate an artism outcome. And I practiced it because we have a daughter. So my daughter Asha is five. They think during the pandemic, the world has shifted to talking about mental health in a way that has never been as open and clear. I mean, I don't even know you. You and I don't know each other. I'm sharing with you enough to be you know, it's like a therapy session. And I almost do that with anybody I joined a

zoom with. Lately, I've noticed that having done this through the pandemic, I think that's exactly what it is, a wall or a membrane that it was kept us slightly separate from what we're feeling in the need to process and process quickly to accommodate what was happening circumstantially. I hope it's gone for good. I mean it feels a lot more raw, but it feels closer to figuring out

a lot of stuff. And also it becoming typicalized, you know, talking about mental health, Well, it's like human and kindness. And my point is, if we can now have this shift to be talking about mental health and address it proactively, then let's look at developmental health because to me, that's the epidemic that is facing our future, far larger than the pandemic that I hope becomes endemic and is temporary,

but the epidemic of neurological health. And if it's one in six children in the United States, I don't know what it is elsewhere, but one in six will get a developmental diagnosis. It's shocking when you say it like that.

But what's shocking on top of that is there are no protocols like you have to have a mother like you, or a mother like my friends, or fathers like my friends with kids with developmental differences, pushing and finding and asking and seeking and navigating while they're still trying to make a living, keep the home the lights turned on, take care of other children that we haven't got systems

in place societally. When numbers look like that, it feels bananas and I hope that changes at the very least to start. Was interesting. My friend who moved from America to England. England, they got locked down a lot tighter, and I'm sure it's because it's a smaller country and because we have you know, socialized stuff isn't seen as communism in England, but there's a protocol which makes you

feel safe, so it makes you feel stronger. I watched her be empowered as a parent, as opposed to flailing in a sea of information that was impossible to navigate through when she was fearful and tired and trying to take care of her kids. So maybe that's it. Maybe like the basic logistics, maybe it will start there. But

I just I wonder if, like it's often. There was this cartoon I loved when I was a kid where aliens came and took over Earth and it was a complete nightmare and the world was over and the human race was going to be over and everything was done for and then an alien got a cold and it's spread through their ranks, and the cold was why the

aliens left Earth. I wonder if it's something that is incredibly boring and typical and normal and to do with just like a fundamental logistic which will open up the whole kind of arena. Like if we start with like that, just the little tiny things. Have you heard of that? I mean, I'm sure you have canaries in a coal mine analogy to me that that is actually the same as your aliens, because that's what our children are. They're vulnerable.

They have one way of presenting this information. Are they going to sing or are they not going to sing? And you send this canary into a coal mine and it will tell you whether or not it's safe. And when the canaries are not well, that is the human wake up call that we need to clean it all up. I mean, that's my life's work. So what relationship, real or fictionalized, defines love for you? I had a really

cool dad. I mean he was not just a great dad, but he was like the coolest person I've ever met. I think the way that he showed me love, which is unique because he was like my best friend. He was was older when he had me, and just super wise, and he's like it's just really funny, like he would just drop these bombs and everyone would be laughing, and he just was just so chill and cool and smart

but practically illiterate. And you know, I grew up so my parents were Muslim, and in that world, you know, a girl is less likely than a boy to be successful. And my dad's best compliment to me was like that I was like ten sons. It was like not just that he loved me, but it was that he constantly reminded me that I could do anything. And I know

that it comes from being the daughter of immigrants. I feel like I've always been given this duty to make the world a better place because I've seen them do that, and I know that that was their highest purpose in life, was to help other people. I think that I have superpowers to change the world, like I think I can move mountains. I've been told that ever since I was a little Like my dad would say, shah Zi, you are a lion, and like I just always think that way.

And I mean, i grew up in a motel room in Alabama, but I'm still a lion. And so when I think I can do something, I will just I'll do it. And it's like when you love someone so much that you want them to have not just the best in life, but like you will sacrifice anything so that that person can have that opportunity. That's big. And I saw him do that for me for so many years. So you think that sacrifices the major Korniston of love.

I think it's not the necessity, but it's the willingness to put someone else ahead of you for their happiness or their potential. There's something beautiful about that. And while you're doing it, to be laughing and having fun, like, you can't beat that, right, that's it. To be laughing and having fun while you're making people feel good about themselves. That would be amazing. I would like that for my old age. Certainly. I had an older dad as well.

I think they just they're just not going through so much their own ship. I always felt like my dad is like, God, you know you're staying out till thirty. When I told you to be home at town, it was low on the list of his this is going

to totally funk up your life. What I loved was that he'd sort of lived through the Second World War and through PTSD and through rebuilding his body and his life and his everything to come to this point where he had a little daughter when he was fifty, and he was kind of like Wow, you're amazing, you know, and europain in my ass didn't take everything quite so seriously is the wrong word, I don't know what the word is. But he never made me sweat stuff that

he was still working through himself. Yeah, a little bit. My dad was a truck driver. He drove like a semi truck in the Mount kilman Jaro region of Africa. He grew up with dirt floors under his feet. And I met people at his funeral that met him one time on the side of the road in Africa, that came to his funeral in Alabama. Wow, Like it was like one of the people that just left you better

after one conversation. That wisdom and that I don't know, it was like it was just like super charming and to be so grounded and be able to be that charming and after having had like a lot of hardship. And yeah, he didn't sweat the small stuff because it literally was like a gnat. It's like nothing. When you've seen those things, it's amazing how they continue to be fuel for you, you know, our parents, or they continue

to be fuel even after they've gone. That's also the selfless gift in a way, like it carries on even after they die, the good ones, there's some thing so we don't want to carry on. That's one thing I learned more recently is that I didn't do this when I had either of my children. But now I'm like a really big proponent of sitting down with your partner or however you're going to bring new life into the world and saying, like, what what is my mission statement

for this new relationship? Like what kind of person do we want to raise? And how are we going to be as we do it? And what are the things from our family lives that were so good that we want to bring into this next version of ourselves that's their own person, And what are the things we want to leave behind that didn't serve us? Yeah, because I definitely had. It's not like everything was sunshine and rainbows,

you know, right. I like that corporate approach. I like a mission statement with a human I think that's a really it's a pretty cool idea. I like that it's like a family mission statement. Where and when were you happiest? Hands down, it's not even a competition. The first time I held my son in my arms, happiest moment of my life. Sounds cliche. No, no, no, I don't think well cliches a cliches because there's sort of repeated truths now.

But what for you was that moment? I mean, yes, the joy of meeting this person that you've quite literally made inside you. But was it the fulmination of other things? I think for me, because I'm idealistic and I'm in my head a lot, and I always wanted to be an artist and paint pictures, and I thought being creative was my life's study. And then I ended up not pursuing painting, and I pursued business as my expression of creativity because I realized that that can be creative too,

and that was going well. It's a roller coaster, interesting and somewhat self defining. But then having the baby in my arms, like hands down, there's nothing more creative than creating new life. It's just the fulfillment of my body's ability to make something so special and beyond anything one could ever imagine. Because you don't know the future, you're not in control, it's the most beautiful moment. There's a lot of people who don't want to have babies nowadays,

and I can understand why. It's a crazy world to bring a child into. But it's the coolest, most empowering, most creative thing in the world to make a human being. I couldn't agree with you more. It's astonishing. I think it's why man is so scared of us. Well, it's

pretty powerful. Yeah, it really is super when you were painting, when you're making even that they can't really be an equivalency of maybe making some are and like that creation of a human But was there that feeling of the satisfaction of making something and the freedom of that and the uniqueness of making art. It was the ability to have the expression and control it, but with lacking the

technical skill of the masters. Yeah, I could like replicate not like Malcolm Gladwell style blink, replicate like a Van got But I could do a starring night, just not the same. You know, it's like having a vision in your head and being able to try to bring it out. I'm like super critical, you know, just the act of the expression. That's sort of like that's like running or taking a bath or drinking a glass of wine, Like that's a way to just get out your emotional I

don't know that pent up emotion. But what I also wanted was to have the expression and then have the end result be super beautiful and reflective of what I had in my head. And I think that somewhere there was a disconnect and I let that go. Do you think that's why you could have your life's work evolve into business because maybe there was a sense of like never being able to reach the place that you wanted to with your art, or do you think that it

just one grew out of the other. I think that the business, the beauty of the business being my sense of creative expression is that it becomes a living, breathing work of art that evolves and affects people, and that you can shape a business in a way to affect people truly for good, truly for changing the world. Whereas the work of art, at some point it's static. You hope it might move someone in one way or another. You hope it might have like gotten your you know,

yah yah's out or whatever by making it. But the business is like alive, but it's still not as alive as of human It's not what would be your last meal, My last meal would be I mean, without a doubt, Number one has to be with my dad, because it'll taste better, but it was our favorite food to eat together. My mom makes these samosas, which is an Indian thing, but my dad was from Tanzania, so they had the East African Indian version of the samosa is a little different,

so you can't just get it in a restaurant. Anything in a restaurant or any Indian food for me that I buy somewhere, it's not the same. But she makes these incredible samosa as my mom, and you take a bite and you sweeze some lemon and it's like this perfect philo dough around this like heavily spiced ginger and garlic meat filling. And then my dad had this chi his chi. I know how to make his chi. That would be my last meal. I would eat that every

day if I could. I like that idea of like, yeah, it would not just be my last meal, it would be my every single day meal. Maybe she can teach us. I had to make it, but I don't have the patience to learn from her. You know that sounds like a very good granny granddaughter. Past time for an afternoon? Can you tell me about something that has grown out of a personal disaster? Well, may I have two answers, so I don't want to one is silly, you can

answer both. I don't mind silly and serious. We had this dog named Willie, and Willie was like, you know, like the love of your life. He came into our lives before we had autism, and he was just this like perfect esthetically perfect being and so intuitive, you know, like when my dad passed away, he wouldn't even let me go to the bathroom alone, like he just stayed with me. And then I mean, when Zane was diagnosed

with autism, he wouldn't leave me. And there were times like we moved from this tiny little apartment in Jersey City to this weird Connecticut house, and there are times where I'd be putting Zane down and he'd be flailing around and I don't know, he accidentally hit me one time and it wasn't on purpose, but it made me cry because I just it's just every once in a while, it just something makes you cry and you need to and I just hear this, like this dog would come

and he's just like paw opened the door and he would jump on the bed and he wrapped himself around your neck and licks the tears off, and that was like my Willie. He was incredible, and uh he ended up getting diagnosed with cancer and we went all in and we yield him. Actually he was fine. He ended up passing away afterwards after conquering cancer with an accident. But before that, we took a biopsy and I found a place to clone him. Oh my god, are your

dog well? So what happened was because Willie was so I mean, he was like so special, you know, and we were so lonely, and they knew him. My son knew him. And it's not like he loves all animals, but he knew Willie and he had the makings of the perfect autism therapy dog. So I'm thinking, okay, well, if we can get him back, then we can try him and he will become the perfect autism therapy dog because he has that intuitive It was uncanny. So I went ahead and pulled the trigger. I said, okay, do it.

And then they implanted an embryo and didn't work, and they called me and they said just keep going, and I said okay. So they implanted another embryo, didn't work. So then the third time they said, okay, well we can do too. That way we'll increase the odds. Are you okay with putting two? And you know, I'm just thinking, oh my god, to baby cute little willies like of course, like, let's just do it. Like And so the irony is I have two labor roodles. They look exactly like Willie.

And because they're literally themselves, I couldn't then say, oh no, we only want one because they're both Willie. But because there's two of them, they could never be a notto some therapy dog because they have each other. You can't train them because they have each other. They're like incredible. They're as human as Willie was. It's not like their science experiments. And they look exactly like him, and they have many of the same characteristics, but they have unique personalities.

Oh my god, I wish I cloned my dog. I know. So now Joe and I have our own autism therapy dogs. That is completely extraordinary. That's actually one of the best stories I think I've ever heard. But it's kind of off brand, but it is. Actually it's a reversal of that question, or maybe it adds its own addendum. So in your life, can you tell me something that grew out of a personal disaster. Well, yeah, my dog died, but I cloned him. I'm gonna try to show you

what Willie looked like. I don't know if you can see this. Oh my god, I'm looking at a picture of both of them. God, it is actually really weird. You're looking at the same dog. That's wild to me. Anything is possible, So then why don't we have a novel therapy or preventative measure or cure for autism? But if you ask me who changed your life? I mean, my son changed my life because it made me realize I have so much more to do, and I've learned

so much. And see what happens is when you've learned so much because you can't help but create your own PhD and understanding caused this? What could I have done differently removing the guilt? But what were the things I could have done differently? What would I do differently next time? Which I did with RuSHA that experience. I mean, I'm not I'm not at a place where I like want to plug a business, But healthiness to my company is that it is saying everything I wish I had learned about.

Like if you're going to have a C section, ask for a vaginal swab so you can maintain your baby's healthy microbiome from day one. You know, that becomes their immune system. Like everything that I learned the first time around that didn't go right, that you can control. I want to share that with other people because I think it can be prevention. I think it can be proactively beneficial to our children's health. I think that's absolutely incredible.

I'm not even going to cite the brand that I'm thinking of, but the idea of disseminating information that is really going to affect change, and not just put an overly expensive bubble somewhere up your person to make you feel better, to really create a company that's going to affect change. I mean that what you just said a at the C section, the fashional swob, that's a game change that nobody tells mothers that that's free. In China, the autism rates the highest in the world. It's one

in twenty seven in Hong Kong, and in China. You know, the cities are like twenty million people. And in China they have this thing culturally where they're really into astrology and like numerology and being born on the right day at the right time. Ah, So c sections are really prevalent, and so you think you're doing this thing to have this fairly auspicious birth. Oh my god, look at that.

So when the baby comes through the vaginal canal, whether this is empowering to the mother of having the birth you wanted or not, the baby's first exposure to bacteria happens then comes into their mouth, into their ears there are otherwise been sterile their whole life. And then the breast milk that you feed them or other milk, but it's the oliga sac rides in breast milk are the yin to the young of the bacteria. So it feeds

that bacteria and that becomes your immune system. And so if at birth, there's one thing you can do to be like, all right, if I end up having a C section, I'm gonna take Basically, it's called a vaginal swab, and I did it with my daughter after trying for forty hours, and we rubbed this gauze all over her, in her mouth and in her ears, and we've tested her gut health and it is like a one perfect She's never had antibiotics, and I think it made a difference.

I actually did a ted talk in China and I said the word vagina on the stage and the translator stopped talking and everybody in the audience like freaked out, and then that he had to leave, and then a woman came and took his place, because I was trying to tell them about that a man couldn't even say she has. I'm so fascinated. I've written about a million notes of things that I'm going to go and research. Thank you, really, thank you so much. Of course, it's

my pleasure, so fun meeting you. You can hear more from Chassis on her upcoming podcast, The Healthy Baby Show. The show will explore a number of debated topics in parenting, including control, postpartum health, fertility, gut health, and well being. The trailer for The Healthy Baby Show will be released on March sixteenth, and I'll be on her first episode on Wednesday, March. Mini Questions is hosted and written by Me Mini Driver, Supervising producer Aaron Kaufman, Producer Morgan Levoy,

Research assistant Marissa Brown. Original music Sorry Baby by Mini Driver, Additional music by Aaron Kaufman. Executive produced by Me Mini Driver. Special thanks to Jim Nikolay Will Pearson, Addison, No Day, Lisa Castella and A Nique Oppenheim at w kPr DA, La Pescador, Kate Driver and Jason Weinberg. And for constantly solicited tech support Henry Driver