Yo, what's going on? Welcome inside to tc OH Radio Studio. This is the Minnesota Vikings Podcast, brought to you by PEPSI. I'm Gabe Henderson. I'm alongside Vikings dot COM's Tatum Everett and our special guest of the night, mister Ben Gesling, who is from the Star Tribune. Eric Davidson produces this show and Ben the Vikings. Well, I'll start it off with this. Who said you needed to score touchdowns to win games in the NFL weeks?
Yeah, it's it's pretty uncommon. The the I think match the lowest scoring win in Vikings history, first time since nineteen seventy one. So Packers right, yes, against the Packers at the met Fred Cox hit a game winner in the fourth quarter. So Fred Cox and Greg Joseph are kindred spirits, I guess, and.
Then rewind back to the week prior, the Bears don't score a touchdown and they beat us. So it's you know, the game of football is evolving.
Tatum, it certainly is.
And if you know, I was kind of I kind of had a bow to pick with a lot of fans who were so used to seeing so many explosive offenses.
I I love a defensive game. I really truly do.
I know that that might be in the minority of of of decision.
Anybody's listening right now, are gonna be like Tatum, you're by yourself phone.
Yeah, I respect it.
So growing up in the South and watching a lot of great sec defenses that was kind of like where I really learned my love of football, and so I just have a I like watching a good defense. Now do I have a lot of question marks about this offense. Of course I do, because it shouldn't be a three nothing game. But I love a shutout any day of the week. I love the way that it goes back and forth and like every every small, tiny minute decision matters.
So, I mean I said it. I don't know where I said it, but I was like, I'm I wish.
People would just be like, hey, like it's it's a good defensive game. It was sure, the offense wasn't me, but like it was a great defensive game, yeah for sure.
And just thinking about just the first three quarters, Ben, you were there, just how how did you see the defense kind of step up in those moments?
Well, I mean, I think a lot of the things that we've seen throughout the course of the season played out where it's they're forcing throws underneath because of the zone coverages and then all of the pass rush that forces Aidan o'connall get rid of the ball quickly. But the tackling I thought was especially good. That there were a lot of plays where the ball would be underneath and you'd think a guy has room to make something happen.
And the perimeter tackling, I think especially was a lot of the reason that they were able to force punts like they were and keep the Raiders really from not only not scoring, but not even attempting a field goal. So I think that stuck out and it just like you said, Tatum, it's one of those games where you had to have everything because any one play could have set up Daniel Carlson for a field goal and that never happened.
Jordan Hicks was a huge part of this defense, one of the main tacklers, I guess you could say, leading up and to his injury, how do you think they've been able to especially with Ivan Pace in the mix, been able to step up in his absence and still almost like not skip a beat.
Yeah, I mean, Ivan Pace I think has deserved a lot of credit and has received a lot of credit this week for the way he's handled it. You know, really an impressive rookie season as a whole, and we had seen that coming into this, but I mean, I thought when Jordan Hicks went down and the way people talked about it, the way Brian Flores talked about it, the way Kevin O'Connell talked about it, you could tell what he means to this team and the season he
was having. There was certainly a void there, there was a felt loss. I think the impact of him being out was certainly not lost on these coaches. So for Ivan Pace to come in there and do what he's done to the point where they really haven't, like you say, they haven't missed a beat very much. It's been being as Simon sound. It's I think being a more effective pass rusher probably than people would have expected from an UNDRAFTEDOKI.
And it's been being able to keep everything kind of in check in front of him running that huddle and Jordan Hicks. We'll see if he gets back, but you know, it's been awfully impressive to watch Ivan Pace this year. And I wonder how because there's not like a runaway defensive Rookie of the Year candidate this year, at least as far as I've been able to see. So, you know, an off ball linebacker, it's a hard one thing. It's
a hard thing to win. But you know, I think he's certainly going to be in the conversation.
Well, speaking of conversation, I leads me to what I really wanted to ask you next, was with the way that the defense is carrying through these past couple of games especially, I mean, really this whole entire season, how much should Brian Flores' name be mentioned in the conversation for coordinator of the Year.
Well, I mean, I think pretty high on that list. I mean it's you know, to watch this defense do what it's done. I mean I kind of thought beginning of the season the setup was something to the effective offense has a lot of proven scope, has been players, a lot of proven talent. This is a thirteen win team that had a defense that was ranked twenty eighth
or twenty ninth in the league last year. If it improves to the point where it's fifteenth, eighteenth, whatever, nineteenth twentieth, that's going to be enough of an improvement that the offense will take care of itself and you're getting the stops that you need. So to see it now where it's been, you know, it's ranked fifth in the league I think in points allowed, and you haven't really seen
anybody crack it yet. Now, it has not been a murderer's row of quarterbacks lately, but you have not seen this thing where people have started to figure it out because it continues to shift and evolve and the number of players that have executed a scheme that allow that requires a lot of make on the fly decisions, make a lot of checks pre snap, make a lot of reads on what you're going to get from the offense,
and communicate those things across the defense. For a young group to not see the busted covered, I mean you kind of expected at some point. Okay, there's a lot going on in this defense. There's a lot of guys that have not played significant snaps in the NFL. There's going to be some breakdown at some point or another. That really has not happened much at all. So I think the scheme, the way they've taught it, the way they've executed it, the development you've seen from some of
these young players. Yeah, certainly is a credit to I mean this to the staff, but also certainly to Brian Floor is probably foremost of all. And yeah, it's been awfully impressive to watch them. Certainly would say.
That speaking of being impressed, you know you did hit a make a good point. Fifth in total defense, this Minnesota Vikings team is right now. But the thing that stands out to me is the run defense. The Vikings are top five run defense in the NFL, and that's something that we haven't been able to do these past couple of years. So to be able to do that, Harrison Phillips, Waltsapayton Man of the Year, what are some other guys you would say are key contributors to this Vikings run d well.
Yeah, I mean you think about it, it's like that that game in Philadelphia Week two where the Eagles basically said we're just going to run the ball the entire game. To be ranked as well as they are on run defense. With that still on the resume, it has been an awfully big change here in the last few weeks. And you mentioned Harrison Phillips, that's been a big part of it. I think you've seen contributions from a lot of guys in that line that don't get a ton of credit.
Jonathan Bullard has made some plays Kiro's Tonga. Jacquelyn Roy has had some moments where he's coming as well. But it's been it's been that, it's been guys at the second level, it's been Josh Mattelus. I mean, there's there's a lot of things. Daniel Hunter continues to be a sound I mean, he's known for his pass rushing, but he's a sound run defender that he not.
In discussion for Defensive Player Year.
I think he is.
I feel like since we're such in a small market, people don't really give his name much.
So and he's not the I mean, he's got not a guy that draws a ton of attention to either. So I mean some of these things are are branding to some degree, I suppose, but but yeah, I mean he's he's a guy that has always been that way you always done his job against the run and has not played that position saying I'm just going to go off for the quarterback and whatever happens on the run,
I'm not worried about it. So the fact that he does that, the fact that you've had people on the defensive line kind of step into contributing roles and it's been impressive, and especially because most of the time and the default personnel grop being the base defense for this
team is in the nickel. I mean, it's three safeties on the field all the time, but whether it's two four in front of those five, whether it's three to three, I mean occasionally see a four to two, but you're not playing heavy personnel very much, so teams have incentive to say, let's try to run it, I would think, and the fact that they haven't been able to do that, a lot of people have executed the assignments at a pretty high level.
That's what we need and what we need right now is for this offense to start executing some assignments. Just understanding that there's another quarterback change this year. This will be the fourth well I guess the time that we've had a starting different starting quarterback this season, so well, fourth time because Jaron Hall started in that land, right. What are realistic expectations for for Nick mellins Well, I.
Think you saw shades of it at the end last week where the ball is coming out a little bit quicker that time that he's had in this offense that obviously Josh Dobbs and Jaren Hall have not. You see some of those things I think play out. So it's running the offense efficiently, it's keeping the offense out of third and longs, out of turnovers, out of sacks, all those types of things. I mean, I think that's probably
that's the first order of business. And you know, it's not going to be probably the most explosive offense in the world, but there's enough skill position players on this team that can run after the catch that some of it is just getting justin Jefferson, Jordan Addison, TJ Hockinson the ball in space and letting them go to work. It's not having to throw twenty five yards down field. Although he did have some downfield moments on Sunday, the throat to Hockinson, the throat to Addison that kind of
set up the game winner. I mean, he showed he can he can push the ball downfield. There were a couple of times there where I thought he had an underneath throw and he says, now I'm gonna take the high corner, I think on the one to Addison, and so that was impressive to watch. But you know, if you get to the point with him where he's throwing for two hundred and twenty yards a game and not turning the ball over, that should be enough.
Jake Browning numbers right there.
Well yeah, I mean it's it's funny. I mean we mentioned the defense and not having seen this in a while, but some of these formulas that you start to think about in terms of seventeen points, twenty points, whatever it is, will win you a lot of games. I mean, these are the conversations that people had around here when Mike Zimmer was here, at the height of the Mike Zimmer defenses. That was a lot of the talk because they only need to score twenty twenty one points and they're gonna
win most of the time. So that does feel like the formula a little bit right now. I mean, even Kevin O'Connell's spech after the game on Sunday, it's and he's saying you you understand that you have to play to the strengths of your team, and the team as it's currently constituted is built around a defense, and if you get the skill position players healthy, there's a formula there to make it work. It's not the one that everybody expected, but I think it can be done.
I also think something from the Raiders game to take home from from the offense, at least from a positive perspective, was the physicality upfront and the ability to control the line of scrimmage.
The run game.
It may have been one of their best performances really just trying to plug along while.
They obviously the passing game was struggling.
And if they can give that support to Mullins moving forward, how much do you think that could play a role and do you see them building off of that. I mean, that's something that they've been hard. It's been hard for them to get going.
Yeah.
I mean I think Sunday in terms of success rate in the run basically in terms of how often you are making appreciable progress towards a first down, I think they had the highest rate of the year on Sunday. I think it was fifty six percent against the Raiders. And the Bengals have not had good numbers against the run. The Packers have shown a lot of trouble against the run, like they did on Monday night against the Giants, So there is going to be room there to run the ball.
And I thought like you said, I mean, Alexander Madison had some nice runs in terms of being able to make cuts and make a couple of guys miss, but a lot of it was the offensive line kind of being able to reset the line of scrimmage, being able to push the defense of the Raiders defensive front a couple of yards back, three hours back, making it so that whoever has the ball is not getting hit right away,
which we've seen a lot of this year. And for that to happen with a lot of changes happening on the offensive line, where Ed Ingram's on the game, Ryan O'Neil goes out, Dalton Reisner goes out for at least a couple of plays, it was impressive. And I think the physicality that they showed, the commitment to that you're
going to see more of that. I mean, they're i think, have averaged since Cousins went out thirty two runs a game, and some of that stobs, yes, but the overall number is like the fifth or sixth highest in the league. So it's it's been I mean, defense and run the ball. It's it's uh, you know, now, it's.
Just right for a guy who wants to throw the ball fifty times a game. Who needs to.
Run it takes to win, right, That's all.
Right, Well, we're winning in the first segment of this break, but let's run to our commercials and make sure we pay some bills, so we'll be right back with more with Ben Gesling right here on the Minnesota Vikings podcast.
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We are back in action. Vikings football, coming off of a win last week in Las Vegas, is back on the road against the Cincinnati Bengals on Saturday at twelve pm Central Time on NFL Network. Ben Gestling is here, Tatum Evert is here. Our producer Eric Davidson is here. My name is Gaye Anderson. This is the Minnesota Vikings Podcast.
And Ben, just understanding that we're going to be in another game where there are two quarterbacks that didn't start the season enough, how do you make sense of what we really can expect at pay Course Stadium on Saturday.
Well, I mean, it's it's been kind of the story of the NFL season that you've seen all of these high profile quarterbacks go down. And I was looking this up this week. I don't know that it's statistically unusual yet in terms of the number of teams that have played a couple of different quarterbacks. I think it's fourteen. Now. I think the Chargers might be the fourteenth. Somebody can check me on that, but I think with Justin Herbert going out, it's right in that neighborhood that almost half
the league has used him. But you've seen a lot of whether it's Aaron Rodgers, Justin, Herbert kirk Cousins. I'm sure I'm missing a couple. Ryan Tannehill. Yeah, I mean there's been a lot of quarterbacks that have gone out. I mean brock Perty was out for at least a bit. Derek Carr, Derek Carr, Yeah, I mean there's been a lot of veterans or high level guys that have missed time. So it has become Joe Burrow. Obviously we're going to see.
This on Ry heartbroken. Sorry Tigers there, I know.
It's fine, you know, selfishly heartbroken. Thankfully, the Vikings don't have to face like that. I mean, Jake Browning is playing very well, which is interesting because we've seen him before. It's another Viking, former Viking quarterback who's getting some time in the league while we're facing them, which is quite interesting.
Yeah.
Yeah, and he looked I think better than it's.
Night practice, Jakey.
I was about to say, people forget about it looked like the night practice when he had to play all the time quarterback.
You probably had seven hundred and eight hundreds that night.
Yeah, well, maybe he was a tco.
He led a go ahead drive and then Jake Browning was unable to answer Jake Browning after Jake Browning led a touchdown drive. So I mean it was some good and mad there, I guess, but yeah, that was kind of a shy moment. Yeah, should we give.
A backstory for fans who were listening. So twenty twenty the COVID year, Uh, they would have been twenty one, twenty twenty one, the COVID year. There were three quarterbacks in the room, Kirk Cousin, Sean May, and Jake Brownie Milon Mont, so four quarterbacks. So of course, with the COVID protocols, if somebody gets or test positive, everyone in that room has to either retest or they.
Can't can't be a direct content.
So long story short. Afterwards, Jake Browning was the only quarterback the day of that was healthy enough to press. It was TC night practice to Tatum's point, continue.
Yeah, it was. It was, And I think he had people dunking in with water afterwards.
It was.
It was quite a scene. But yeah, it was kind of the thing that everybody remembers him for around here, I suppose, but I know he impressed a lot of people in this building through that camp and and through his time here. So it's been interesting to watch him in Cincinnati. I mean he's had some days where he had I think went out with cramps on Sunday, but he was dealing before that. So I mean they have a lot of weapons with Chase and t Higgins and
you know Tyler Boyd. So it's yeah, mixing, and they've had trouble running the ball, but there's a lot of skill position talent there. It's a little bit of a mirror image. I suppose agree, in the sense that there's enough high level skill players there, headlined by the LSU receivers, that if you have a quarterback that can get them the ball, you can make more things happen than you would think, even though the starter is out for both teams.
Yeah, no, I think I think it is interesting because because you when you see these backups come in and time as you see different stars stand out. So while we do know those big names, now you have to worry about a Tanner Hudson, you have to worry about a Chase Brown. So you have these guys that maybe have worked with Jake second team reps getting those in, so you're.
Now you're worried about that as well.
However, I like the fact that this run game got going in this Raiders game, and that's kind of what I like seeing in this matchup. I do think that you're going to have to rely on that in this one for momens, but I'm excited to see his confidence in there and and to see what this defense can do. You know, I hope that it's not another Ryan Right game personally. I mean, I do like defense, but I don't like as many punts.
Yeah, I mean it was, uh, it was she prefers mistreat. Ryan Right had a good day.
Miss field goals. No, that's an alabana JK JK JK.
I love this datum.
It was, yeah, a quote a showdown of the punters between Ryan Right and aj Cole launching one eighty three yards. When that came off his foot, I thought he shanked that. I mean just in the press box, it looked like a line drives bos good grief. I mean, yeah, the things kept flying, so it was like one of those. It must have been on purpose, because he had to think a couple more that were kind of that line
drive style kick. And yeah, both those punters had heck fit day and had to have it obviously when nobody's scoring.
Yeah, sometimes you need that twelfth man on the field, and in this case it was Ryan right just being able to flip the field for our defense. And Tatum started off with what she liked about Sunday's matchup and just understanding we do this segment called PEPSI that's what I like segment. She likes the run game for this Minnesota Vikings team. What's one thing that you like going into Saturday's matchup against the Bengals.
I mean, I think the ability to get pressure on Jake Browning. I think it's going to be a big factor in this. So you know, Daniel Hunter against that Bengals offensive line, I think there's opportunities for him there. Who was had a shot at Zach number fourteen against the Raiders and I think set up one for I think it was DJ wanting to clean it up. So yeah, I mean, I think the opportunities to pressure Jake Browning.
I mean it's we've seen this a lot this year with young quarterbacks where Brian Flora's defense has caused a lot of trouble because it's a lot of looks that you don't see. It's not a scheme that has a lot of peers in the NFL in terms of people playing that way. So it's not like, oh, we see film of this other team and it's like this last team we saw, I mean the Vic Fangio type defense
that the Vikings were in last year. I do think there was some of that where it's okay, everybody practices against a similar version of this, whether it's Green Bay or the Chargers or the Rams or the Broncos have run at the Dolphins probably are doing some of that now with Fagio being there, with Brian Flores's approach to defense, you don't see it really anywhere else. So I think that is always a little bit of a shock for
some of these teams. It's a little bit like remember a couple of years ago when the Vikings were playing ball Baltimore. It's we don't see teams that have an offense that operates like the Ravens do with Lamar Jackson. So there's just not those banked reps in practice, and I think that always leads to a bit of a shock, a bit of an adjustment for offenses, especially when they have you on quarterbacks. So I think the pass rush especially is a factor in this one.
I agree just seeing what Daniel Hunter has done this year, Tatum, you can probably speak to it from a, you know, a broader perspective, like I don't think we've been able to witness something this good on the defensive side of the ball in Purple since we've been here, correct, I.
Would say so.
But it's also I think a big reflection on this health uh the player performance uh here right now because he's now been able to stay healthy for two straight seasons and you're really able to see just how talented
he is and how valuable he is the defense. And that's really a tribute to player performance and Tyler Williams and r Ayah and their team to make sure that he's you know, in tip top shape and not not struggling with the same almost like I wouldn't say freak injuries, but just like very rare injuries that he had before the last two seasons, like three years ago.
Y yeah, And it's he was a guy that before those two seasons, like was twenty and twenty one that he had I mean it was it was his neck in twenty and then the pectoral muscle in twenty one. Before that, he was the fastest player in NFL history of fifty Sacks. I mean, he this is a guy that was on a gold jacket trajectory and those two
years kind of took him off of the map. But I mean I remember a couple of weeks ago in the press box sitting there and Andrew Kramer goes, he just passed Jared Allen Sacks and Viking's history a couple more years to do it, but also had a couple
of those years taken away from injuries. So I mean he he has put together quite a resume in his time in Minnesota, in a large part because he does a lot of He's always I mean, coaches always talking about how coachable he is, how much he he absorbs coaching, finds ways to execute what they want, finds ways to improve his game. You pair that with an athletic skill set that's hard to match. You see these types of
things come back. So I mean you talk about the last time we saw a performance like this, I mean, Daniel Hunter is doing the best version of this since I would say probably since Daniel Hunter. I mean, like Daniel Hunter in twenty seventeen, twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen. Yeah, you know a lot of those years where he's getting
fourteen fourteen and a half sacks. I mean, this may be on even another level, but he has shown before that he is capable of this and it's certainly been fun to watch him get back to that, if not exceed that level.
That's a great take. And before we get out of here, I'm just going to give my quick thing that I like about Saturday's matchup. Just a backup quarterback, like the backup quarterbacks on both teams that matchup. Yeah, I believe is going to be keith. I mean, of course to winning this game. We when I look at Nick Mullins play play the game of football, I understand it helps
me understand how much football is timing and chemistry. Yeah, he doesn't have the arm strength, yep, it's not the tallest guy, but when you look at just some of the throws that he makes, he's always ahead of the curve. And that's something that I that I really appreciate about his game. He kind of just sticks to what he knows. And then Jake Browning is literally the same exact quarterback.
So to your point of two mirroring teams of you know, really good star power on the outside and running backs that haven't figured it out yet. Now you have two quarterbacks that if their timing is off, that affects the entire game. So we'll see what Saturday at noon at Pegor Stadium looks like with those two guys, you know, taking the reps for both the Orange and the Purple. Before we get out of here, just your final thoughts on Saturday's matchup.
Well, it's an interesting game and it's one that you looked at at the beginning of the season when you see all four teams that had been in the conference championship game on the schedule, this is when you had circled as one of the tougher road matchups the year, probably this in Philadelphia. I still think it's that it looks different, certainly without Joe Burrow, but I still think it's a tough matchup in the sense that the Bengals have played a lot of playoff games the last couple
of years. This is a team with a lot of pedigree that has won and played deep into seasons the last few years. So it is I think an opportunity as the Vikings look at trying to assert themselves, and certainly they're in good playoff position, but still a chance. Believe it or not, they're in control their own destiny of the division. Still a chance to win the division, certainly, a chance to assert themselves heading into the playoffs, those
NFC North matchups coming up after this. I think it is definitely an opportunity because it's going to be a test. I think going in there, it's a good fan base that'll be not frigid, but Chile so it's December football outside. I guess a team that's played a lot of playoff games. I certainly think it's a good test.
I truly think that, and I don't want to say it could feel like a playoff games. I don't think we'll have that magnitude. But with these teams both fighting for their playoff hopes right now, same record, Gosh, so.
Many mirroring subjects on this thing, but they they're not. They I don't. I think the Ravens will win the division.
Is that?
Is that a decided thing yet?
I don't know.
Yes, So I think I think that the Vikings have a better chance whin their division than they do there, so they're fighting for that wild card.
So I could see like.
Things running hot in this game for sure, and that's really yes. Yes, So I'm excited for this one, my first time in that stadium.
Excited to see that as well.
So, yeah, it's always kind of I always end up you mean, you end up staying in Kentucky a lot of the time, and so I always say at a hotel right across the right, across the river. So you end up walking from Kentucky to Ohio. So I walk across state lines.
I love that.
Then you can say, hey, I've been to Kentucky.
Well, speaking of the test, that test starts twelve pm Saturday at pay Course State. To study for that test, you can listen to the pregame show right here at ten am with Mike Mussman. This is going to be a great matchup two teams with the same record. The series is Todds seven to seven between the two teams, so someone will have the advantage at pay Course Stadium on Saturday. So for our producer Eric Davidson, Tatum Ever from Vikings dot Com and Ben Guesstling from the Start
to your Star Tribune, my name is Gabe Henderson. We will talk to you all next week, whether you were hosting a tailgate party or getting together with family and friends for the holidays. Dairy is a staple to bring creamy, rich goodness to your table. Find delicious new recipes at usdairy dot com to up your game. Brought to you by Undeniably Dairy.