Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti and welcome to the Mind Your Own Karma podcast. Hey there, karma crew. Thanks for joining me for this episode of Mind Your Own Karma, The Adoption Chronicles. Today. I have Veronique Kinter on the show today. She is an adoptive parent, and if you are an adoptee listening, before you reach for the pause button on your computer or listening device, I would like you just to hold on for a
minute. And I would like to plant just maybe a couple of seeds in your head to entice you to listen to this episode. You know, in adoptee circles, we know there needs to be reform in the adoption agency arena. There's so many things that we feel is wrong with it, and some of us feel like adoption shouldn't even be legal, that it should be abolished. But in my eyes, I don't see that happening anytime soon. So what can we do to make the changes that we want to see in the adoption world?
And how can we do that? How can we make those changes? And for me, I feel like education is really the key to where change can begin and how can we make that change if we don't know what changes need to be made and how do we find out what changes need to be made. I have found that listening to not only adoptee stories but birth parent and adoptive parent stories have educated me so much in what I personally feel like a needs to change. You know, we've all been told
some kind of story. Adoptees have been told we're lucky and we've been chosen. And you know, had that pounded into our heads and then birth parents have been told you're doing the right thing for your child and adoptive parents, you're gaining a family and you're helping a child in need gain a family as well. And so it's a win win scenario. But are we being told the truth? And how do we know what the truth is if we don't listen to adoptive parent, birth parent
and adoptee stories? So that is why I've opened up this podcast to an adoptive parent. I bombarded Veronique with 1000 questions and you know, I'm looking at it as an adoptee. She's looking at it as an adoptive parent and I hope that we both learn from each other. I know I learned from Veronique, so let me tell you a little bit more about Veronique. Veronique is an adoptive mother of a baby girl through an open adoption that happened in 20/21.
She is originally from the French Caribbean but was born and grew up in France. She is married and is a mother of two lovely girls. 1 Biological 1 Adoptive She moved to the United States in 2003 and has been living in California for 20 years. She worked in the tech industry for years but now wants to spend more time with her family, raising her girls and supporting her husband. She is a Co host on the podcast High Vibes and a mic with her friend Sylvia where they talk about parenting and
spirituality. She says that being an adoptive parent has been a dream come true for her family. After trying for years to have a second child, here is my interview with Veronique. So we are welcoming Veronique to the show today. Hi, Veronique. Hello Melissa. Thank you for inviting me. Yeah. So I don't get a lot of adoptive parents on the show. So I wanna thank you so much for volunteering on coming on, 'cause I have 1000 questions to
ask you. And I don't know, we kind of discussed earlier, I don't know how much time you spend on the adoption platforms or social media spaces, but the adoptive parent can kind of be the bad guy or the one getting beat up a lot or talked about a lot in those spaces. So that's partly why I want to bring adoptive parents on the show, because I want to educate people on your perspective.
And so that's why I'm I'm opening up the podcast this season to adoptive parents as well, because we can't see the changes that we want to make if we don't get the whole story. And I feel like that's a big piece of the story. So you know, I'm coming it from a adoptee lens and you're coming from the adoptive parent lens. And I'm here to learn from you. And hopefully, you know, if you feel like you want to ask me a couple questions, I'm totally open to that as well.
Feel free to ask me anything that comes up. So let's just start and tell me what you feel comfortable about talking about why you decided to adopt. Sure. So it has always been very difficult for me to get pregnant. I met my husband in my 30s, mid 30s, so we didn't waste any time, but it was very difficult, a lot of miscarriages. Then finally I got my daughter when I was 39 and after. Now you had that one's biological. Biological. Yeah. My first one. Sorry.
My first order. Yeah, biological. When I was 39. And then after that we tried. I no, I mean, we tried, you know, hormones and other stuff. And we were about to do IVF. And I was like, you know, I can't, I can't put my body through that again. It's it's too much. So I told my husband, I don't want to do that. She's going to be an only child. And that's it. And I don't know, one day we were on vacation and I saw my daughter, She was playing alone in the pool. And I had like, an opinion.
I'm like, oh, no, she can't be alone. And my husband told me about, He's the one actually who told me about adoption before. And I was like, oh, I don't know. I don't know. And I don't know. I had like, an image, mental image in my, you know, in my mind. And I'm like, OK, yeah, let's do this. And so this is, you know, the day we decided, OK let's go, you know, let's check what you know if we can do adoption, you know how long it takes and now we can get there.
It was a long, it was kind of a long journey, but also very short when I checked. Now we know other people, other adoptive parent. We are very lucky. I think we got, we were matched with a birth mother very, very quickly, but I think it was just at the right time. Everything happened when you talked. About how that match happens, how did that?
How did that work for you? So I did some research online to to find a legit you know adoptive agency a license but I live in California license but California and everything and went through actually my husband job because they had referral and also they will help and got they have to pay the the fee of the agency because people need to know it's really really expensive. It can go up to $20,000.
So thank God this job a lot of company in the Bay Area they cover they can give that as a benefit in your benefit and we were lucky he had that. I think without that we haven't done it anyway it was really really expensive. So the agency when we started it was the beginning of beginning of COVID. So usually what they do, they do seminar, you go to the agency do seminar and they give you all the information you need as a as a adoptive parent and what you
can expect. So we did 3 seminar online because it was COVID, 3 seminar online. Each seminar was like 2 hours. And the thing I really like is during the seminar they had birth mother that came to to talk to us would ask them any question we wanted. They were really open. One was sorry a young girl. I mean she was she had a baby when she was really young. So we had that side of the story of somebody very young. Can I take care of her baby and realized I'm gonna be able to do
this alone. And she was she had an open adoption And the other one she had some mental issue I think bipolar or something like that. So she she realized and the the the man who she had the baby with was had also like even more mental issues. So she's like, yeah, there's no way I can do that. And she did a son of an adoption. So I was very happy to see those two side and the way they explain, you know how it worked and I was as a adoptive parent, you know and I already have a
daughter. I was with you a friend. Oh my God, I I want, am I going to to compete with another woman to be a mom because you have you don't want to compete. You don't have the baby to have two mums, right. And something the one of the lady said, she said, oh, by by the way, don't. I mean that's her experience. Maybe it's not the the same for everybody.
But she was saying for her, she doesn't feel like she's really the mum to, even though she see her child almost every week because she is very close to a child, but she's she's an artist so she travels a lot. I mean she doesn't have, you know, the time to really take care of a child. And she said that for her, it's more that she's the auntie now after a while and the child knows she's the birth mother. And he said to his friend, you know, after mum and he looks
like he was really. So she she, she removed that part of stress for me. I'm like, OK, so maybe we can do this. And also my background, I was raised, my mum had me as a teen or so, So she had a lot of help from my grandmother, from another woman was taking care of the kids. So like you say, you know, we say text her village. So I was raised by like 3 different women and there was no competition. There was, it wasn't almost like more love and more love. And I was really, I think I'm OK.
So I'm thinking, you know, oh, if we do open adoption, that child is going to be very loved by us, by our family. But she's also going to have a birth mother. She will know. She will know where she come from. Because I know it's really hard when you don't know where you come from. I don't know my dad. And I said, Are you sure about
it? Because there's one side of myself and I'm I'm like you know who am I. So I want it. I want you know the adopt the the baby I will going to adopt to know exactly where she's from. So we're like OK let's do this let's I think it's a good it's a good way for us to have a baby so. So what was the process 'cause I think you had to make a profile and it was like the birth mother chose you guys, I think. Yeah. So it's like dating. So you have to he felt like he
was dating. So you have to do a whole profile. So they do they they direct you to another agency of course. Who's going to do that for you? For some somebody, something outside of their their agency. It's like a marketing company that's that's what they do and they they do a very, very good job. So you have and it takes a long time because you have to write everything about yourself, everything about you know your
kid. If you have a dog picture of your house you know and it looks very very nice.
They have the profiles on paper and also online because this way they can just give it you know to to birth mother when they at the hospital if they want they say you know I don't want to live with the baby so they have a lot of flyer they can pass you know pass along to the birth mothers and of course they can check also online if somebody's she knows maybe she's six months and she's like I know and I'm I won't be able to do this she can
go online and check all the profiles all profile profiles are available online So yeah we did we did that we did a profile so. Now you're in competition with a bunch of other families that are, like, looking. For babies? Actually, not really. You know why? Because I'm going to do something that's very funny. We are the only black family in there and that was a big advantage actually. I think that's why he went very fast for us because we're a
black family. We also really put in our profile that we were Christian, you know, going to church and everything. And the demographic, they just told us, the demographic of the kids being a place for adoption. Most of them are black Latinos and mixed race. So in my hair I was never really worried. I'm like OK if there's most of them are black. In my mind the woman is going to you know place a a kid with us might be, she might be also black or Latino mixed race or
whatever. And we're the only family there. And I think that's why this way went very fast with us. But the joke was on me anyway, because the the birth model chose us was white, so. Really. Oh, wow. But the dad of the baby is black. How how long did it take you guys to get picked? So we're in the middle. We had like different little scare.
So we're in the middle of doing the paperwork and we weren't even done doing the paperwork like for three months and we had an e-mail saying hey we might we might have a match for you and we're like we're not even done doing the profile and then I care. But I think she's she's a teen and she's looking for some for somebody like you. So she sent us we just wrote her letters but we didn't we didn't get paid for picked for that one. We're like OK, you know we're not really ready then we are
done with everything. Everything was ready and we are going so it was during the pandemic. So I said OK we're going to go see our family in France for the whole month of July. Can you put a profile at in August This way you know won't get much before And I I think they found a match for something and they emailed me the day I landed in France, I had an e-mail. We have a match for you and she's in Arizona, something like that. I'm like can't come back.
It's it's pandemic. You can even leave leave the country. You know you have to stay in your house for like 10 days and that was like a match. And I'm like, Oh my God, this is so long time. And I was like this is not happening again. So we had to pass on that one and then after that it took nine months. So we got match in March on our spring break because we're again on vacation every time we go on. Vacation. But this time we went in. America. Yes, on vacation.
I think it's no one. You don't think about it because I thought about it every day. Every day. I was like, oh, this is going to be the day I'm going to see that e-mail, that phone call, you know, and nothing. And I'm like, OK, let's let's just relax and have a nice vacation. We go to New Orleans for a week. After three days, we'll send an e-mail. We have a match for you. She doesn't even want to see any profile. She saw you and she wants she wants you, she wants to choose you.
So are you OK to receive a phone call and start talking with her? We're like, yes, so we got match after nine months. That is fast. Yeah, right. What did the Do you know why the birth mother wanted to give up her child? Oh yeah, in a nutshell. So she got pregnant with somebody who wasn't her boyfriend at the time. Then she went back with the boyfriend, and the boyfriend was like, I don't want the baby and I don't want to tell my family that you're pregnant with
another man's baby. So we won't tell anybody, but you have to to take care of it. So she chose a boyfriend and she was like, you know, I I want, I want to press up with the good family with the same. She's really spiritual. She's like, I want a, you know, a good family that will raise her, you know, in the in the Christian faith and everything. And she wanted a black family because she's, I think she was a bit paranoid, you know, about race.
And she was like, if she's, if she's a race with the black family, we would be able to teach her maybe to be careful about, you know, racism or whatever. She thought that if she plays her with the white family, they won't be aware of this because otherwise miss race and she's like, if she's with the black family, you're more aware of what's going on in the world. So you'll be able to teach her, you know, to be aware of what's going on around her. I was like, OK, yeah, sure. I mean.
Is that something that you feel like you're gonna, you know, your daughter someday might ask why her birth mother gave her up And you know, hearing that, like you just said she chose her boyfriend over her baby and had the feelings surrounding that she'll have about that. How do you think you'll handle that? I don't think I will say it like that. I might not say it like that. So maybe she's gonna watch that later, I don't know.
But I think we'll explain, you know that her mum at the time, because I think I know her mum has also some mental issue. She has. She has mental issue. We realized that after a while and I think she was in her right mind and she was really brainwashed by by by that man because I think deep down she didn't want to give up the baby. I don't think she really wanted to place her baby and if she also she had issue with her family.
We don't later that her family offered to help her, her parents or sister and she was in. I was talking on the phone with her like every day for like for two months before she gave birth. I was talking with her every day for maybe two to three hours on the phone every day. She was calling me all the time because she didn't need to talk. And she was telling me, you know, my sister wants to take care of the baby, but I'm not going to do that. My parents, I don't. I don't know.
I don't, I don't trust them. So I think she was in a bad place with her family at the time. I think I, you know, at at the time when that happened, the pressure with the boyfriend not really really being good relation with relation with her parents. The only thing she thought about or I'm going to place her in a good family and she wanted a close adoption to protect herself. She's like, I don't want to know
anything about her. I don't want her to contact me because I'm going to live my life with my boyfriend. We're going to have other children and I don't want her to resent me that I placed her. I didn't keep her and I had other kids with another man. So she wanted to protect herself and she and she was like, I don't want her to know my last name, anything. I don't want to have any contact. That was at the beginning, and then it changed. Then it changed.
What changed? What do you think changed? Did you mean that you went from a close to an open adoption? So what changed? She broke up with a boyfriend because the boyfriend also had issues. So they broke up. And when they broke up, she realized, Oh, my God, what did I do? She relaxed. What did I do? I have, right, actually to see my daughter, which she does. And we're completely open. We're like, yeah, sure. No, let's do this. There's no problem.
So after six months, she comes back, you know, in our lives. Give me a phone call. At the same time, I receive a phone call and I receive an e-mail from the agency saying, hey, you know, she's trying to contact you. I'm like, oh, OK. I still have the same number.
And she calls me and she's like, OK, let's actually I want, I would like to do an open, you know, adoption And because we didn't sign any paperwork about close or because if it's a close adoption, I mean she just disappear, right. Nothing happened. And if it's open adoption, there you have to sign paperwork. He has to be seen by the judge and everything and everything is is clear and you have to respect what's on the papers. So I'm like, OK, let's draw some
papers. No problem. And I think, I mean, we couldn't know. We didn't know at that time, you know, her state of mind. But when she came back in her mind, she was going to get her, her daughter back. I think she had the idea that her daughter was in foster care. And I was like, OK, where did she get that ID from? So I called the agency. I'm like, you you. She knows what? She's fine, right? She knows it's not foster care. And the agency was like, yeah, she does.
She's like, they just was like before we sign anything with birth mother, she's seen by us by a psychologist. They talk with her. We explain to her like a lot of time. We give her a lot of time also to change her mind because when we went to to get her daughter at the hospital she didn't sign any paper. We were we were just not even guardian. We were babysitters and the agency told us clearly careful don't bring your family. This is not happy.
You know, it's happy for you, but the birth mother, you have to, you know, be conscious that she's really sad and everything's really sensitive. So they say, you know, be sensitive about that and remember that you you are babysitters for at least three weeks. Because how? Is that change your mind? You probably felt like you couldn't bond with the baby.
Like, are you afraid? To do Too bad because when I saw her, that was it. When they when they rolled her in a little, you know, crib and she had a little bow in a little hat with a little bow. I was like OK, yeah, she, that's my daughter. So I mean there was I knew you know she could change her mind and yeah we were really scared for like scared. We were very not, you know, sleeping on our two ears for like a week because after a week she's time. She took a week.
So they didn't, you know, Foster, the hospital signed the paperwork. Now, you know, they gave out a lot of time and they say when you when you you have three weeks actually. So when you feel you, you want to sign, you know, the paperwork, let us know. And she called after a week and she said, OK, I'm ready. And they met with a witness and they signed all the paperwork.
So I know everything was legit. But I realized after she had some mental issue and I think she, yeah, she thinks she thought, you know that I don't know, She made a story up in her mind like you know, the the the baby was in the foster care and she was trying to to go through the contract and everything to see what she could she could do to get her baby back. Oh wow, after the baby was born. Oh, six months after, yeah. Oh, so OK. Yeah, when she came back in our
lives. When she came back in our lives after six months. OK, so she it was an open adoption, but you took her home after she signed. Well, even before she signed, you had her. But then she kind of disappeared for a while and came back. She's appeared for six months. She's appeared for six months. Yeah. After we left the hospital, we thought it was a closed adoption, so everybody went their way. She, she went back with the
boyfriend and everything. And after six months she came back because he didn't work out for the boyfriend. And she felt that she was free now to redo what she wanted to do, which was to be in contact with the daughter she never want, really wanted to take contact. I think I can see it now. Yeah, So did she come see her or? So from the contract we have a monthly video call we do with her. We send her also a monthly picture. Every month we send picture and she can we have a visit face to
face. Once a year, once a year she can, you know, we have to meet. But it was very difficult at the beginning because first of all she's not really consistent. Sometimes she doesn't show up, don't know why. And then when she showed up, she said, oh, you know, you owe me to visit. We're like, no, it doesn't work like that. Oh gosh, yes. Wait, I'm sorry. No, it doesn't work like that. You cannot. We cannot do that. Then we had for like 3 to four months, very bad almost.
I blocked off on my phone because she was getting very aggressive. She was saying I'm only the babysitter. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not her mum. I didn't bore her. You know, the mum, I'm the mum. I'm going to raise her. So she was really living in our own, you know, own world. And I told my husband I cannot deal with her anymore. This is because she's not talking like this to my husband, by the way. It's a completely different person.
It's only she has a point with me, of course, because I represent, you know, her. Or her daughter. So I. I know. I'm just replacing her. Yeah. I replacing, yeah. I know everything. I know. I know what she's doing. So we had like a lot of nasty phone calls and I think also she was recording the phone calls. So we started recording the phone call. So he was getting very nasty. So we started to, I went back to the agency, they said OK, this is not moderator, how do you call these people?
They tried to help facilitate. Moderator, OK. Conversation. So we're like and this woman, this moderator talked to her also when she had the baby to help her go through the, you know, through the the pain. She's also a psychologist and she so the birth mother didn't want to continue because she she said that oh, I have my own psychologist, but the moderator asked her but is is your psychologist adoption specialist? Yeah, because. This is what you need.
You need somebody who knows how to deal with adoption. And we paid for everything. We paid for the session. She was, she had like 5 sessions with a psychologist. We prefer to be part of the group of birth mother and I think that's what she was missing. I think she needed to see, to be part of the community of that mother and maybe you know, see, you know what is going on with the other, you know, other ladies, you know in there. She refused everything, of course.
So the mother writer, we try to do something with the mother, she refused. Then we had to call a lawyer, 'cause we're like, what are all right there? Because this is going too far. She's getting very, very. She's really aggressive and she's very, very, Yeah. It's not, it's not good for for the baby because every time we talk on the phone at the end with the her crying because she can feel the tension, yeah. That's not good for her and.
That's not what I wanted. I wanted the all love from all of us. And I'm very. I was really open, you know, for her to be part of this, yeah. I mean, she's reacting from her trauma, but she's also refusing the help to to help, you know, that's there to help her too. Yeah, I can't imagine at the beginning, I thought. What is she doing? I didn't really understand also. And then when I talked to the moderator, she's like, there's several phases. She's in the phase of I need to
try to get her back this way. I can tell myself I tried everything. She's like, she's in that phase of denial that if I don't try everything, people are going to ask me, where did you place her? Or I will tell myself, oh, I didn't try enough. So she's trying everything she can just to to tell herself I tried. So I'm like. OK, so finally by the end of the year my husband really insisted and told her, you know you need to see her because you need to see her for real.
So you will see she's a real child and what she needs because 10-15 minutes on the phone and there's the picture, it doesn't feel real, you need to meet her. And then she got very nervous. She cancelled three time. Tango wouldn't buy the. Ticket. Because she, she moved to. Oh yeah, she she, she moved from to another, no, not another state but like the city, like like around Los Angeles. So because we before she was like only three hours away from us. So finally she's like, OK, can I
come with my mom? And we're like, you know, whoever you want, there's no problem. So finally we meet in a very nice park. It was a fabulous day. It was very, very nice day. And the day before I went there, I fasted the whole day and I went to church and I prayed. Because I really believe. In fasting and praying, because I think you know, your prayers will really get heard better. And that day was perfect. We met and all the nastiness, the meanness, everything went
away. It's like nothing happened. She hugged me. The parents were very nice. We were able also to ask the parents know what's going on. Really. She spent the whole afternoon with her daughter and I gave her some space because she, you know, took her arm and she started walking around in the back with her and kissing her and talking to her. And I'm like, and I look at that and I'm like, oh, this is, you know, even talking about it right now.
I'm going to cry because it was really, it was really nice. And when I, when I handed her, you know, my daughter, I told her, I told my daughter, Oh yeah, that's your mum. You want to say hi to your mum? And when I say that her dad was next to me and he started crying, he's like, you don't know what you just said that you don't know how important what you just. It is what you just said in my I'm like, I know it's her mum, it's her birth mother, there's no problem. And in my.
And we told her she can call you mum. We have no issue for her calling you mum because this is not the word she's going to use for me anyway, because she's going to use the French words for us. We speak French at all. So there's no competition. There's no two mum. There's going to be a mum and there's going to be a mummy. So how? Was your daughter when they met. Sorry. How old was your? Daughter when they met, oh, it was like. Last year. So she was one year and a half.
Like one year and a half. She's born in May. She was one year and a half. Everything went fine. It was a beautiful day at the end. We all prayed together. We heard that that was a can I make a can I make a prayer for us? You know, we all need to get along. And I'm like, sure, you know, it takes a village. So we all prayed together. It was very, very nice. We left. I was like, Oh my God, I can't believe this, You know, this is perfect.
We're back, you know, because when she was pregnant and we're talking, I'm not going to say we're friends, but we we're kind of very close. I was getting very close to her. And I felt like, OK, we're back to that. And when we were, when we were at the park, I went to the bathroom to change my daughter's diaper. And she came in the bathroom and she's like, Veronique, I want to thank you. I really want to thank you for
being OK with this. And I'm being OK with what she said, You know, being OK with me, seeing her. I'm like, listen, I never said I wasn't OK with this. Never. I I was always open to this. I want this. There's no problem. Let's do this. You know, smaller for the baby. So I thought we were good, right? Uh oh. Yes. Sounds like there's. A Part 2, yeah. So that was in November. Then we left for Christmas, went on vacation. My husband did the the last
Christmas video call with her. She could see see her for Christmas. Then we came back in January and I'm like, OK, so I'm going back on the call because I didn't need to do the call for like 6-7 months because we couldn't talk anymore. So I'm not going to just me. And so my husband's like, OK, Joanie is going to call you when do you want to do the visit? And she's like, I don't want to talk to her. You know why what? Like I have my reason. You know why I'm like, back to
this. I see she sounds. That was two months ago. We were hugging and crying. What's going on? What? So I think I'm like, I don't understand what's going on. We heard we talk and your dad made that prayer. We need to get along. Please don't go back to there. And I and I told her I already moved on from this. Can we move on from this? And she said, OK, like, OK,
she's good. Then the day she wanted to talk to, I think it was maybe Ferrer now because she want to talk to her Valentine's Day. But on Wednesday, she doesn't answer my call, She doesn't answer my call, she doesn't answer my call, and she takes my husband. She's like, I don't want her to call me, blah, blah, blah. So to make the story short, I send her a voicemail saying, listen, your daughter is ready to see you.
She's having dinner. She's ready to see you for Valentine's Day. She's not going to wait forever because after I have to give her a bath and everything. So if you want to see her, it's now. If you don't see her now, you're going to see her next month. And from now on, it's going to be. Once is me, once is my husband, once is me, once is my husband. If you don't want to see when I'm when it's me, you're going
to see her every two months. So I said also something you know, You told me you were Christian. If you're Christian, you wouldn't behave like this. This is your daughter. You're putting what you have against me above her. This is this shouldn't be happening. And I told her, you know, and I think that's did the trick. I said we prayed together. I said we prayed together, we hug each other. And we we made that promise to God that we were getting along.
And now you're doing this 5 minutes later she called, but I think that did the trick, you know, because I talk about religion. And so she talked to her daughter and, you know, after she talked to her like 15 minutes. But now we're back to work. She doesn't want to talk to me. She doesn't want to. She's still in that state of mind. Yeah, it sounds. Like maybe she's like maybe on medication and then off medication or something. I think that's so there's some. Bipolar issues something.
No. When we had a file because they tell you, you know if if the birth mother has no drug issue, mental issue because of course the the women are going to place their kids you know they're not they have issue or they wouldn't do that right. So for her I was they were just saying that she was pretty depression and that she stopped the medication while she was pregnant. She's like, I don't want to. But I feel like.
When she's not taking that medication, she's kind of behaving normally and I think maybe when she's on a on that medication it makes her a bit cuckoo. I don't know. But exactly what you said, you know, my husband was like, OK, is Sean medication or not now is it, You know, Doctor Jakeen or Mr. High we're going to talk to today. We never know. We never know what to expect. Yeah. So how is it now? So now last how old is your
daughter? Now she's 3. She's almost 2. She's almost two in May, so right now she really doesn't know what's going on. This was recent. Yeah, this is obvious that was. I'm doing, I'm doing February, yeah. A long time is dead this year. So my yeah, my daughter, she doesn't know what's going on. She knows. She sees that Lady once a month. I guess she doesn't even remember, you know, but she saw her, the one before, because she's still little. She, the birth mother, she
missed like two or three calls. She didn't do January then she didn't want to do February then she arrests us, telling, saying, you know, OK, you you owe me two phone calls. And we're like, no, we're not going to do that. If she missed a call in 30 days, that's your problem. You know we cannot get your interest service. So now my my my fear a little bit is that she might be consistent for a while and one our daughter is going to know who she is, she might disappear again.
That's. My fear, I don't know how. And she changed. She changes her phone number. Like every month she has a new phone number. We have to keep up with her. Oh, OK. This is. She changed her phone number last week. Again, this is my new. Phone It's going to be hurtful for your daughter. But I wouldn't try and shelter her from that too much because you know she needs to know that and you're just gonna need to be
there to help her through that. But I would just let those cards fall It's it's on the birth mother at that point and you know yeah unfortunately that's that's all gonna she's gonna realize that like you just said she's gonna realize mom's back and forth and that maybe I'm just not important enough for to be in her life and that's going to be you know some issues. That was another thing I was going to ask you and I think you
sent me a question about that. What what is available for adoptive parents and the birth mother like after the adoption? Like is there psychological? And also for the baby is there like as the baby grows is there any or is that kind of on you guys to get counseling for the baby, I think for the. For the birth mother of the agency, they give you a lot of
option for. So like I said, you know to pay for the psychologist like at least five session for to see a psychologist and she can be part of a group of birth mother and the group is being lead, lead by a mediator and they can and they have, I think they have a Facebook also page and they can meet. I mean I thought that it was still COVID. So I guess they had zoom, you know meetings stuff like that. So there was some support. There was some support, but she refused all of them.
She wanted to do any of them. She was like, no, I don't want people to know my life and stuff like that. I'm like, you don't need to tell about you, but you can maybe listen to the people and see how they react, you know, how they act, you know, because they're you're in the same position. Yeah, I was going to say. It it makes you feel not so alone that you're not, you know, your feelings are valid and yeah, exactly what? You're what you're.
Going through before you adopted, what kind of training did you get on raising an adoptee, 'cause it can be kind of challenging, yeah. Did they give you anything? So yeah, they. Gave us a lot of books to read. So I have one book that I've not yet started but it's in my list. So we bought one of the book and they had also a lot of videos that we could watch, you know, from their website.
So they give you some material, you know, they give you some material to some direction to go and and they do the semi now. So when they explain, you know what to expect. Maybe not raising the baby, but what to expect now with the like the process. The process, yeah. Yeah. Did you notice any behavior issues with your daughter, like when you brought her home? Like did you notice any like excessive crying or sadness or grief or any? No, I think. She's going on, Yeah, after the visit.
You mean the facilities? No. Like as a? Baby, when you brought her home. Oh, I'm sorry. Yeah, like at. First being taken from the birth mother and having that no because. What? So what happened when she was born? I was supposed to be there at the hospital and she wanted me to be there at the and you were on vacation. Again or something. No, no, no. No, no. Oh, no, no, no, no. We knew where she was going to be. She was due to like, we're not going anywhere.
So we prepare everything. I book a hotel for a whole week. I'm going to work from the hotel. My husband is going to stay there with our elders, you know, at home. I'm going to go there because she lives three hours away from where we were and the day was supposed to all go all go there and spend the weekend there. And my husband was going to go back home on Sunday. The baby arrived at like 7:00 AM. We're still in bed. I woke up, had like 3 missed
calls, two from the agency. One from here I'm in. Labor, I'm like, no. So we're driving like Maniac on the highway. Here we go there and she. Was already born. I can't believe this. So it was really well arranged. We had we had a a room next to her in the hospital. Everything was taken care of. I'm not OK, thank you very much. And the thing she didn't want to she didn't hold her when she was born.
Nobody really hold her. So by the time we arrived, she was she, she was born for like 3 hours and she maybe had been held, held maybe by by by a nurse, you know, something like that. And my my husband held there for like 6 hours. He didn't let her go. He just like was she was within like 6 hours. Then we slept there and so we were a little bit of an attraction at the hospital because I think they never had an adoption like this open adoption, you know, in that
hospital. So we had a lot of questions. Is she your surrogate? Who is she? A friend. How do you? Know each other. So all the nails were all around and we were like the style of the of the floor, right? I didn't know what. Was going on. So did she ever hold the baby? The birthday? So yeah, one of the. Nurse talked to her and said you have to say goodbye. You have to acknowledge, you know that you had a baby and you have to say goodbye.
So they asked us know is it OK? We're like, yeah, sure because she didn't like, made any decision when we were driving there. I received a phone call from the hospital and and they they tell me so we need to do that on the baby, this interruption on the baby, is that OK with you? And like what? And. And they said, yeah, we are the birth mother. And she said, no, no, ask the parents. So I'm like, OK, yeah, yeah, do whatever you need to do. All right. So she wanted, she didn't want
to hold her or anything. So we said, yeah, that's fine. So she came in our room and the baby was having like a little noodle test for audition. So the there was a nurse there and the nurse said, oh, you want her to hold her? So she hold her was the while the nurse was doing the test and he was really like and I I look at them and I'm like, this is that was really cute. You know she was holding her and she was caressing her head but then she started to freak out.
She started to. Freak out the. Baby was really small, by the way. She was really small when she was born. And so she started to freak out and she was like, she's too heavy, She's too heavy. I can't. I can't. And I thought, I think she was about to drop her or something. So my husband jumped and said, OK, I'm, I'm going to do it and it it, you know, it took over. Yeah. Oh my. Gosh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think. She freaked out a little bit and
then the nurse left. And we started, you know, she turned around. She said thank you. You don't know what you're doing from you're doing, you know, for me. Thank you very much. I want to thank you. And she started holding me and we started crying together. I'm telling you, we were really, really close. So she, yeah, that's all the contact she had with the baby. And when we came home with her, she was the perfect baby. She slept after like two or three months. She did like full nights.
I'm like, Oh my God, it's so much easier when you don't give birth, you know, you don't have all the recovery to. Deal with Yeah. Much. So much. Easier so. But now we didn't feel like there was any. The only thing I could I could say from what I remember my first daughter, which was natural. I think the bonding, the bonding time with her took a bit longer, like for her to really come to me or hug me anything like that. I think my daughter it was more. Natural instinct was there.
Yeah, Yeah, so. I know it's maybe because I breastfeed her. Also. No, I think breastfeeding or so bonds you with the baby a a bit more. So I didn't breastfeed her, so I don't know. But now? Yeah, now. Now she's like, she's kissing me all the time. She's. I mean, she's. She runs. To me, at daycare, when she sees me, she's like. You know she. So she knows who I am. There's no, yeah, we don't feel any difference. I mean, for us, she's our daughter.
There's no differences. Yeah. Do you think that adoption is traumatic for the baby being separated from the birth mother? That's a good question. I know it's traumatic for the birth mother, for sure. That's traumatic for her. That's 100% for the baby. I did. I don't know. I I'm not really sure. Because like I say, you know, when we came, we hold her right away. She wasn't like, you know, in the nursery, all alone in a little creep for a whole day. We came and we really took care
of her right away. Do you really know, you know, who's taking care of you? I mean, like I said, you know, I was raised by another woman and I thought she was my mum. I didn't really feel, you know, and I think the confusion came later when I was age to understand, Oh no, she's not my mum. That's my mum. I don't think I really had any. When I was detailed for me was. Oh yeah, You know, she's the one giving me my bottle or, you know, she's the one feeding me. I don't think there was a big
issue with that. How do you handle discussions with your daughter? You probably haven't had many yet, but if when she comes to you and has, you know, questions about her birth family or adoption in general, how do you plan on handling those questions, especially with her birth mother being kind of erratic and well, I'm. Hoping I'm hoping that we can still contact actually with the parents of the birth mother, because I want the plan.
When we were there at the park they asked us, you know how we they had a lot of gift for her and stuff and they had they arranged a picnic for us. They were really, really nice people. And so she, the, the, the parents said can we stay in contact with you you know have your address so we can send a gift for Christmas or. And we said, yeah, sure. And Herman were like, oh, the birth of she has her address. I think she was. She has her address from her paper, the paperwork.
And I said, you know she can you know give them to you and was supposed to exchange for numbers. I don't know what happened. I think I thought my husband did it. He thought I did it. Nobody did anything. And when we left, I'm like, did you give us the the information? And he said, Oh no, I thought you did it, but I was like, oh, we can do it later. It's not not because everything is good now.
Now it's back to work. So I can't even I don't even dare asking her can we have, you know, your parents information. This way we can send them things. So I'm hoping. She's sending. Pictures, forwarding all the pictures and everything. Maybe our parents are her parents are going to ask her,
you know, for the address. I'm not really sure, but I think for the future we will be in in contact with them and we'll be able, you know, to even visit, visit them, you know, without her or whatever, because she has like six or seven brothers and sisters. And the dad? The dad was sad. Because like, you know, she has cousins. We have no other grandchildren. We like to know her actually or so, and she's doesn't know that part of the family and we want her to know that part of the
family. She has cousins and she has grandparents. Yeah. What? Would you say are the pros and cons of open versus a closed adoption, in your opinion, in your experience, yeah. I think the pros and cons, I think it depends on the birth mother. In our case, I don't think open adoption is good for her to be honest. I think every month is.
It's torture for her just to see me or just to hear my voice or I think the agency usually so they told usually the the the rules of the visit are every two months pictures and video calls once a year the face to face and but she was really insisting and they're like she's really insisting do you mind doing once a month And I'm like no I don't care I'm I'm always posting picture you know on Facebook every day so once a month it's OK No, I think it's too much. I think it's too much for her.
I didn't. Realize what she can. Handle and what she can handle and yeah. I think it's too much for her. So I think it depends, you know, if you who do you have to deal with? If it's like for instance a Teen Mom, but she's right in her mind, you know, there's no problem. Or it could be a mother where you have 55 kids and she there's no way she can handle 1/6 mom. You know people, rational, open adoption is great, rational people.
But people who have mental issue drugs issues, the thing like that, I don't know if he's good for her. I don't know. I don't. Know if you would, as a birth mother, giving up your child, if you would know how you're going to react in that moment. Oh yeah, no. Because it's so. Traumatic. I can't even imagine what you what you're going through in that moment and then what you have to do to live every day after that. It's just like I, as a mother cannot imagine, you know.
And I don't think you can kind of you might know. You might think you how you might react, but I don't think you really know until you're in that moment, you know and and actually giving up your child. Let's talk, let's talk about, oh, you want to say something about that. No, no, no. No, don't worry. Let's talk about the post adoption contract agreement. The PAC, I'm not really familiar with that. So can you tell us what that is? So yeah, so this is.
Where you write everything in details, how it's going to be, you know after the adoption, how many visit, how many, what she can do, what she cannot do. So for instance, we could, if we were really mean, we could stop all of this, all the the contact because there is a a little clause in the contact saying, you know, if there's a lack of trust and if there's a lack of disrespect, something like that, you know, you you could go see a judge and say we need to change something.
So my husband is really against that. I don't want to deal with that either. So we're not going to do that. But there was a lack of, there's a lack of of trust now because we know she might talk to another, to lawyers or whatever to try to see if she can have her daughter back. Why would you do that when you know it's it's final, nothing is going to change. You know we talked to a lawyer and he said unless he was a fake agency there's no way she can you know attack you on this.
It's like it's final. So yeah, so the the, the post adoption contract is just saying everything is going to happen for 12 years by the way because some yeah, it's 12 years. So after 12 years it's going to be although you know decision if she wants to stay in contact with her mum or.
But I mean by that age anyway she would be old enough to go online herself you know and log in and talk to her if she wants to. So we won't really have to know to to do anything, but it's up to 12 years, yeah. So. That even. For me. Hearing that, I would really tell her as much truth as you can about the birth mother so that at that point she can make a informed decision.
You know, 'cause if she doesn't know some of these things going on, you know she may making an informed decision and decide to kind of jump in there. What would you how would you feel if she decided to have a close relationship with her birth mother, even though she was kind of around I? Hope she will. I hope she will. I hope she will. I want her to be close to it's it's her mom. She gave her life. You know I'm. I'm nothing that there's.
I'm telling you there's no competition because I'm. I'm the one raising her. I see her every day. I, you know, I put her to bed every every night. There's no competition For me it's more love. But from what I just I I saw until now, I think she will realize very fast that there's some issue because some funk. One we had issue with, she was reading a book and the book had, you know, the colour of the of the Oh my God of the word in French, not in English. You know when they had?
All those when it reigns Rainbow. Oh my God, Rainbow. So the colour. Was about the book was about a Unicorn and you know, the rainbow colours and stuff. And the birth mother freaked out because she thought it was about HGBT stuff. Oh gosh. Yes, and we had a big. Fight on the phone because she's like, you need to get rid of that book. I don't want my daughter to see
that. And she think because, you know, we're immigrant or whatever, we don't know what's going on in in in in America with maybe HGBT pushing the agenda to kids. She's like, you don't know what's going on in this country. You know, they're trying to do that and with these kind of books. And my husband was like, listen, it's about a Unicorn. Yeah. And like. You're going to be able to shield her from that anyway, out in the world. And that's exactly. What you know, he said.
You know, we have friends from all over and from. They're not all Christian, by the way, so we won't be able to shield her from the world. She's going to see everything, you know, in the world. So, So I think my daughter and our daughter is going to, if she continues in that, you know, in that route, she will see quickly, you know, when she's online without that there's something, something's off.
So she might make her own decision, like, you know, I don't know if I want to talk to her that often or yeah. By the time she's. 77867 you know you already, you can already realize, you know, if you want to talk to the lady or not. Yeah, yeah, like I said. You're just going to have to be there for her to experience her birth mother and just be there for her to help her through any emotions and feelings that she's gonna feel about how she's processing all of that, you know?
So I have a question for you, 'cause I, you know, in the adoptee circles, I hear a lot about, you know, profit adoptions and, you know, people, the adoptees are like, they're selling babies. And I've heard, I've heard that certain babies have higher price tags, so, you know, it could be due to their race or some genetic factors. That why they might go for a higher 'cause they're more in demand, you know? Have you heard about?
That do you, did you experience that at all Like I'm just curious what you know and then what is the average cost? You said 20,000 that I've heard, I've heard up to 70,000. I don't know. I mean, this is just hearsay. So 20. 1000 is the price of the agency, the what they asked for, the match and everything and after you have all those things around it. So for us, it cost us at least
50,000. Yeah. Because you have to pay for the when he goes to know to sign the paperwork to the California board or whatever, then you have to sign for the doctor. Then you have to sign for a lot of stuff. Oh and also you have to take care of the birth model. You know you have to take care of her for the the month when they so they try to introduce you to the birth model. Not too early, not like like 5 months. So they introduced us to for us.
Our birth mother was introduced when she was seven months, so we had to take care of her for two months because she was living in a motel. And So what does? That mean exactly taking care of her. So she was kind of. Homeless, so we paid for we. She was in a motel where she had to move every week. She couldn't stay more than a week in a hotel. And I'm like, no. So we paid like a Airbnb for her for two months. Then you have to pay herself a food maybe phone stuff like that.
You know, so you give the so the agency, they have flat fees for everything. So you don't pay her because of course it would be like buying a baby, right. So everything is regulated. There's when you go on the website, the agency, they will tell you this is for the rent. You know how much you can, I mean it's up to you for the rent, of course, how much you can you can put for the rent.
This is what we give her for food and stuff like that and you just pay through the agency and they give her you know gift card and stuff like that and this way she can pay. You can pay also for Uber taxi for her to go to the hospital and stuff like that. We were lucky that she was covered by California, the health for the healthcare.
So we don't have to pay anything for healthcare, but I think some states you have to pay also you know for for her when she goes to the doctor for delivery, stuff like that. It can, It can do the, the, the bill can go very, very high, that's for sure. Definitely. So you probably don't even know how high it can go in the beginning. I mean, you don't know what she's going to need or whatever. I mean, I mean, yeah, it.
Can go very, very high. I mean there is another way also to know to you can adopt, you know through foster care and it's free. I mean, if people, you know, if you want this kind of money. And like I I told you, if it wasn't covered by my husband job, we'd have never done that because we don't inform this. Yeah. They were very lucky that my husband had this kind of benefit. He checked before.
He's like, oh, let me see that this benefit he's like, oh, this is how much they gave us. I'm like, OK, perfect. But as far as? You experienced or saw there wasn't like, you know, 'cause I've heard you know, white babies go for more money than, you know, colored babies and all this stuff. Have you heard that or seen that at all? So not. With the agency. With the agency, they told us of course, White baby, they don't stick it on the market because
most of the parents are white. And of course they want a baby that will look like them, like like them. There's a lot of competition for white baby. And they say, you know, if you're a white couple or in a way there was also a single mother, you know, gay couple, whatever they say, you might try to be open to every race. And I think that's why we will also match very quickly. First, we had not a lot of competition, the only black family there and we were open to any race.
I didn't mind if the baby was Indian, Asian, you know, Pacific Island, whatever. We didn't care. So I think that's so much very quickly. And the thing was, she told us also especially in California, she, she said there's not a lot of Asian baby, not a lot of Indian baby because this kind of community, they help each other. And if one of if somebody, if a woman is pregnant usually you know the mum would take care of the aunt you know the they come
together. So she said the the most of the kids are are placed actually are mixed race baby because I mean you're like Oh no we don't want you know a black a Mexican or whatever so you have to be open. So I wouldn't say that on if you go through a a a legit agency there's no rate for white baby or whatever. You might wait more if you want
somebody to look like you. But in at the same time I was doing something else that is what you because I'm like oh that's taking a long time And I heard about those. What do you call them? It's not mediator. It's like somebody who works for they're not lawyers but they will find pregnant lady for you. We call them baby. Brokers, yeah, yeah, yeah. The adoption, the adoptee's call them baby brokers, yeah. There's another way. I mean the official, you know that I'm sure there is an.
Yes, yes. So I worked with that woman for like 3 months because after three months I was we were match. But so she has the website and you have all the babies there with all the race and everything, all the story of the birth mother. And to be to be like match you have to apply through the link and you have to pay like maybe like $20.00 or $50 just to apply to be presented and then after it's like it's very expensive,
yeah. There's actually pages on Facebook and it I mean it it they all seem like a scam. People are selling their babies on Facebook and there's actually people, yes, there's sites on there and I I think it's a scam. Obviously there's there's people that are so desperate for a baby that they are on there saying I want your baby, contact me, DM me. You know, it's horrible. It is horrible. But yeah, people are just so desperate that they'll they'll fall for that stuff.
You know, Facebook should remove that. Page should remove that. That's yeah, we. The adoptives find those pages and we're like, report it. You know, we tell each other to report those pages because it's yeah, it's it's got to be a scam. There's no way you can't be selling your babies on Facebook. No, you can't, but people. Are so desperate that they'll just, they'll send them money, you know, they'll send some money. Oh my God. But. You can.
You can feel kind of away, you know, after you go, you went through this agency and you spend that much money, you can be like, yeah, I bought a baby because it's so expensive. You can be like, you know, you, you bought a baby. But in another way, I'm thinking, you know, and I helped someone because she was not good. When I met her, she was not good. She wasn't really, you know, heavy. She had a little belly. She was all skinny. I don't think she was eating right.
You know, we went to a nice restaurant, you know, to a good restaurant. We we have lunch. I said, you know, do you want to take your stuff? You know, like pack your pack your leftovers and everything. She's like, Oh yeah, I'm going to also bring some for my boyfriend. I don't think they were eating right, you know, living in a motel and stuff like that. And I'm like, no, we're going to put you, you know, somewhere comfortable when you can relax and sleep.
Because she was saying, you know, I have to wake up every day because they they come in the in the room to clean and I cannot sleep. So in my mind, I was like, OK, I know I we pay all those, you know, fees for the agency. But he didn't go. The fees didn't go to her. He said. Like we paid her, right? Yeah. So what do you think about the adoption agency as a whole? Like do you see any areas that need improvement? I don't understand why it's too
expensive, You understand? You know, where's all the money going? I mean, yeah, they hope should be for. For. Profit. You know, none of these adoption agencies should be for profit. Like it? I think it's me. I guess I'm. I guess they need to pay the employee because there's a lot of people working there, you know, and trying to match you with us, with someone. Also, it needs to be more transparent about the matching because I didn't know if you
were getting presented or not. And after six months I'm like, how come we don't even get matched with one baby? And she's like, no, actually your, your profile is being visited a lot. And she said we actually presented you like 19 times, blah blah, blah. I'm like I didn't know you you you never told us. You know I I thought nothing was happening you know backstage. So can you be more transparent about that? You know I didn't really know. So yeah, more transparency about
the matching maybe. I don't know why the this price also it's like $5000 the marketing, but it takes from. The OR three three. Thousand, I don't remember. It was so much money. So there was some prices. I'm like wow, we need 5K to to. I think it was the matching thing for them because you could register with them saying you you want to adopt A baby but be matched by something some like
somebody outside. And then so if you match with one of those baby broker for instance, so the agency doesn't match you, you pay the baby broker which is cheaper than the agency actually. And then when you match, the agencies do doing all the paperwork. That's what you're paying them for. They are the ones all the paperwork. So but we're like now I'm not gonna do that. So we pay them for the match and I think that was 5K for like 3
years something like that. It's but after three years if you're not much you have to repay again. So I Oh my. Gosh, Oh my gosh. And I'm telling. You There's some people in there. When I check on the website, sometimes they've been there for more than two years, yeah. So, so as an adoptive parent, what advice would you give those that are thinking about adopting? Being be very patient because it can take a long time. Be very patient be open to to a baby.
Not going to look like you because if you really want, I want or I want to. First of all you cannot choose a gender by the way it's not like placing an order. So yeah, what if the baby's? Born and you look at the baby and you're like, this isn't what I want. You know you can't do that. Well, too bad. Well, I think as you, I mean, some, I don't think it happened, but I think you can change your mind as a adoptive parent. You can say, you know, Oh no, we're not ready or whatever.
But it doesn't look good if you do that, you know? Yeah. I don't think anybody did. That you know, a baby is a baby. You know, how can you go there and say I don't want that baby? No, you know you're open to our baby are so cute. I've heard of it. Happening. Really. Yeah. People say no, we don't. Want it? Uh huh. Yeah. Because they had red hair and they were like, oh we don't want a red headed baby. Yeah. We'll wait for the next one. We'll wait for the next one. Well, you're not.
You're not ready to be parents. If that's so important for you that the baby has ready. Yeah. You shouldn't even be parent. It's not what it's about. So whatever. Oh, well, I hope they waited like five more years to. I know, right? I know, yes. I don't remember anything else, anything. Else you want to tell parents that are thinking about adopting, yeah? Yeah, be patient. Continue to live your life.
Don't think about it because I think the more you think about it, the less it's going to happen. Continue your life like you know, you know it's going to happen. Just live your life, go on vacation, you know, do your stuff. Be patient. Maybe try your sort of route. I mean first, first. We also thought to do first start to adopt. You know it's expensive to do
private adoption. You need to learn about other, there's other routes you can do. First start to adopt when after a year you can adopt the the, the, the, the child. It doesn't have to be a baby, could be one or two years old and after a year the the the mum is not usually. Sometimes they don't show up because they have issue. You can apply and adopt, adopt the child and that's free. You don't have to pay for it. So. You know there's other route than private adoption.
Be careful when you see sign also the the Packer I mean the the post adoption contract try to see if you're comfortable with it and because the benefits of course the the birth mother but it is also to benefit the child and and you need to be comfortable with it also because for us right now it's like every month we think every time we think oh OK it's a new month we're going to have to what is going to happen now is she going to be on right mind or not you know if we are maybe two months.
That's what we now. We're doing once. My husband wants me this way. One of us has two months, one month is not taking care of this. He's not dealing with this, you know, so hoping that the birth mother can find some support somewhere, because I think that's one of the most horrible things that can happen to women to place a child. There's no way a woman, no woman want that. If you have a baby, you want. If you kept the baby, it's because you know you want it.
And when he's born. You know, you don't want to give it away. So I was, I was really hoping she would get some support, you know, for that. Yeah, I think she. Needs it. Sounds like it. So in closing, what would you like struggling adoptive parents to know? Maybe that they're struggling with maybe the birth mother or just raising their adoptive child? What would you like them to know? You guys are not alone. I think there's a lot of us, you
know, out there. And actually, you know when you were asking me at the beginning if I was part of the community, I was, I was going to look around to see if there was no other parents like me, adoptive parents who have issue, you know, with the the their birth mother and see, you know, what did you do guys, You know what? What did you do? Did you talk to a mediator? Did moderator, did you contact a
lawyer? You know what's going on because sometime I think that we need a break and sometime I think, you know, it might even be better for her. Maybe she can talk to her when when she can respond to her, when I'll try and be old enough to respond to her because right now it's kind of difficult. So yeah, just know, yeah, you're not alone. There's a lot of of us out there struggling a little bit, but it's all worth it. It's all worth it. I'm I'm happy everyday when I
see her. I'm happy everyday. So she's really proud of her family. Yeah, if you. Or there is an adoptive parent out there that is struggling. Beth Syverson has a lot of help for you guys. It's she has a podcast as well, unraveling adoption. And she's an adoptive parent who has struggled a lot with her child and she does coaching now and has all kinds of resources and pages.
So if you are an adoptive parent out there, I'll put the links in the show notes for Beth. But Veronik, tell us about your podcast and where we can find you. Yes. So I have a podcast, of course a podcast with my friend Sylvia. So I'm from the French Caribbean, she's from Brazil and we have a podcast about motherhood spirituality and so we it's called High Vibes and a mic and we are on any platform. You where you podcast from Apple
podcast to Spotify, iHeartRadio. You can find us and you can see the extract of our show. We put some clips on Instagram. You can follow us on Instagram and Facebook and it's called A High Vibes and a Mic. And all those links will be in the show notes if you want to connect with Veronique and her podcast. But thank you so much for coming on today, Veronique, Like I said, I don't get a lot of adoptive parents and so I had a ton of questions for you.
So thank you for educating us on the adoptive parent view today. Thank you. It was. Fun Thank you very much for having me. Thank you. I want to. Thank Veronique again for being just so open and honest with her story today. And I want to thank you for listening all the way through to the end of this podcast and I hope you got something out of it. I hope you learned something new. I hope that there were some seeds planted for you to think
about. And you know, some things that made me think were I don't know how I would handle infertility issues. What I have thought. About adopting, I don't know. I not. I wasn't put in that position. I don't know what I would feel about having an open adoption with the birth mother, even if it was more beneficial to my child. I don't know if I would be OK with that. So just trying to see things through another person's eyes and their perspective is what I was trying to do today.
And I definitely am thinking about a few of the things that she said. And you know, I may not agree with everything that she said. And I'm sure maybe I said a couple of things that maybe she didn't agree with either. But. Educating. Ourselves again, educating ourselves so that we can have an informed belief around what we are feeling and saying to others
is huge. So I hope you have got some food for thought today and I want to thank Veronique for again being so open and honest as an adoptive parent, being brave and coming on in an Adoptee podcast. You never know what we're going to say or do, so thank you for being brave and coming on today.
If you are an adoptive parent and struggling with your adoptive child, or just have some questions about being an adoptive parent, the links are in the show notes to Beth Cyverson. She is a great resource for all kinds of things and she also has a podcast Unraveling Adoption, so all those links are in the show notes if you need help. If you're an adoptee and need help, get in contact with me. Mind your own karma@gmail.com. I have 1001 resources for you,
including myself. I do somatic mindful guided imagery, so if you want to know more about that, you can go to my website somatichealingjourneys.com. If you want to be on the podcast, get in touch with me. Let's get your story on the podcast. As always, take what you need and leave what you don't. And always remember to mind your own karma. I'll see you next time.