Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti and welcome to the Mind Your Own Karma podcast. Hey there Karma crew. Thanks for joining me on another episode of Mind Your Own Karma, The Adoption Chronicles. Today I have another adoptee guest for you. Her name is Carissa St. Laurent and she is an adoptee from Korea. Let me tell you a little bit more about Carissa.
She was given up for adoption at three years old and moved to the United States to be raised by a new family who didn't look, sound, or act like anything she was accustomed to. This created a deep sense of abandonment and uncertainty about her identity. She adapted. She had to, and in the process locked all of her needs, hurts, and traumas away where they wouldn't interfere with the success of her life. Another childhood traumas piled up upon an already shaky foundation.
There were some dark times, but thankfully Carissa has been asking herself some big questions, such as who am I and why am I here? As she explored different metaphysical, religious and spiritual philosophies, this curiosity carried her spirit to study abroad at the University of California, Irvine and on to an epic adventure with an
unintended spiritual awakening. On a mountainside in New Zealand, she experienced the oneness of all that is the light of the universe enveloping her and emanating from her. She was given the knowledge she was seeking, that she was everything, and her purpose was to light up her world and her life and help others do the same. This is my interview with Carissa St. Laurent. So we are welcoming Carissa to the show today. Hi, Carissa. Hi, Melissa. I love that our name's rhyme.
I know, I didn't notice that. That's great. We were connected through Simon and his podcast Thriving Adoptees, and he saw a common thread with us. So I think this is going to be a great conversation, but we are going to cover your adoption first a little bit and we'll get into some other things. So I was looking at your website and the first sentence of your website says, who am I? And it says I have been asking myself this question my entire life. So who is Carissa?
Yeah, it's it is a big question to answer. The very short and simple answer I've come to is that I'm a star in this body, I'm a soul here on a mission, and that the identities that I've lived through and constructed and pretended to be are all roles. Identities, earthly constructs, things that I've either been foisted into or have created out of protection or have just, you know, played because they're
fun. And all of those things, although I feel like they make up my persona, personality, my character of Carissa, they're not really who I am. Yeah. So you were put up for adoption at the age of three. What happened? Why was it so late being put up for adoption? My birth mother had the, and I'll start by saying that prior to the age of 35, I didn't know anything about my birth history.
My parents were told that I was abandoned naked at a police station and so I was given a name and a birth date and that was where my life began. And until I went to the orphanage in Korea and learned of my actual history and got information from them, I didn't know any of this stuff. So what I was told there and then now have since corroborated. I was with my birth mother until I was three years old. She had been divorced from her
first husband. And it was A single woman living in Seoul, South Korea, met a man who was a Japanese businessman who lived in Seoul, you know, for short periods while he was on these jobs. And they met. They fell in love. And I use air quotes because I don't really know they actually loved each other or just lusted after each other. But they had a moment, and in
that moment I was conceived and. He helped her financially for the first two years and then he had, through the story, had gone back to Japan and said, you know, I I can't support you and her any longer. I've got a family back in Japan, nine other daughters. Oh my gosh. Support. And he just couldn't do it anymore. So she, living in 1970s Korea,
had very few options. And was then met with that What's difficult for I think a lot of unwed mothers in South Korea who are in the situation many of them do give up their kids for adoption because they are trying to do its best like what would be best for the child to have this better life of what they consider a better life and. In South Korea, you know when you are fatherless, you're the lowest of the low. As far as social strata goes, you are kind of a pariah.
So she was facing that for herself because unwed mothers are also looked at that way often times, at least back then. I'm not sure how much it's evolved. I know it's gotten better. Not. Gotten to a perfect place, but I know it's gotten better there. But back then, unwed mothers would be fired from their jobs. Often times their families would denounce them and and kick them out of the house if they happen to live there. And you know, all of these things.
She was an older woman, you know, older. Meaning she was in her mid 30s when she got pregnant with me. So she already lived on her own. But still, it was a social. Situation in that country that did not make it comfortable or there weren't also no social programs, they were no welfare programs like we have here in this country for her to even tap into, so as soon as. He was unable to help support her financially. She felt in this bind.
And then the kind of, I guess, the straw that broke the camel's back, if that's the right metaphor to use. His woman befriended her and said she's going to be much better off. If, you know, you adopt her out, if she's raised by another family, started to really instill this idea in my birth mother that this was the best thing to do. And she would come over and she would bring these American snacks and be like she, she
likes them. She's going to be well taken care of and she's going to be fine. And she also told my birth mother that she would be reunited with me when I was 16. And so all of these things we've now found out were not true. But that's what led up to her relinquishing me. So you said that this story was you were left at a police station. Did they just make up a birthday? Do you know when your real birthday is?
They just made-up a birthday. They said, you know, I'm a Jane Doe, right, A Korean Jane Doe. So I was given the name and birthday. My parents always knew that those were assigned. So it wasn't like they were trying to pass that off of oh, this is who she is and here's her birthday. They told my adoptive parents, these are assigned names, birthday and because of my abandonment with nothing at this police station.
And. We in both going to the orphanage and then also meeting my birth mother. I now know that that's untrue. And then, and I do to answer your question, no my birth date to my real birth date. So how long did it take for you to know when your birthday was? How old were you? We went to Korea when I was 35 years old. My husband being the amazing man that he is, when we decided to go to Korea and also Japan for our honeymoon, he said, well, if we're going to Korea, we've got
to go to your orphanage. Then we've got to try to make contact. At the time, I was still reticent. I'd always had very far off curiosity about searching, but I believed the story that I was abandoned. No information. Emma Jane Doe. So I allowed that story to kind of give me this false sense of security, like, oh, well, you're never gonna know anything anyway, so you might as well just put it out of your head and not go down that road.
And isn't life better without that for anybody who's gone down this road of actually searching for birth, family? And obviously the results can be. All sorts of different things, right? All sorts of stories there which you cover on your podcast, and I've met many adoptees now and had those conversations and there's so many different stories. Mine is, I would say, mostly positive in what we were to
discover. But the crazy part about it if when I contacted the orphanage before going over to see if we can meet with them, if there was any information that they could tell me. They wrote me back, gave me a date that, you know, we could come and visit, and then said we have information on your birth mother. And I was like, wait, what? How you know what it Where did this come from? And I ended up like rifling
back. All these questions because of course, that was the first time any mention of my birth mother had ever come up. That's almost like she didn't exist. Because when you're told you're abandoned, it's like, oh, she's dead or she's, you know, long gone or she didn't want me, you know, That's all. So she's out of my mind, this mystery. But that line in that e-mail just completely rocked me.
So we went to Korea. I go to the orphanage, we meet with a social worker and she opens up my file and starts to tell me all about my life before I was relinquished, All about my birth mother, about the story of how she came to bring me there and all these details and information. And I'm like, wait a minute, at one point I stopped and I was like, why was I given a different birth date? Why was I given a different name? And the woman says, well, this is where it gets a little.
Complicated. Or she may have used the word confusing. She said your parents were going to adopt this person and she's like, I don't know what happened, but something must have happened to where that girl could not be adopted out. So they sent you instead, and this is your information. That just got filed away with her information, the one that was going to be adopted.
So my parents were given false information about a person, or they were given information that ended up being false, meaning it wasn't the girl they ended up with, but they were never told that. And they were even given a picture of the person they were going to adopt and that. I mean, they and me, when I finally saw it, we all were like, that's a boy. It's just very clearly a little
boy. You know, It wasn't like an infant where you can't tell sometimes like, oh, that's a little boy and or a girl dressed up like a boy and looking like a boy. So we have that picture. I still have that photo and now I have the actual photo of me. From that age, from the orphanage that they gave me when I was there. And that's very clearly me. And when I showed it to my adoptive father, he was like, oh, that, there you are. Like, that's you.
Because they didn't know, you know, they like, have the photo, like, photo of me. I come off the plane, they're like, here's your daughter. And they're just like, OK, Like they gave the paperwork. They were handed a child. And they were like, all right, well, she don't look like that picture, but OK, I guess that's her, I guess, question it. And there was nothing else for them to know. The orphanage and the agencies weren't giving them any other. So that was it. Yeah.
Do you remember leaving your mom in Korea? Do you have any memory? I don't know. And I thought maybe being there, some memories would flood back and I would have. Some recollection, both in Korea and at the orphanage. Yeah, maybe like some memory will come flooding through or or the language will start to be able to speak the language again. I studied some Korean language before we went because I wanted to be able to. I do that anytime we travel to a
foreign country. Just basic phrases and nothing. Clicked for me, nothing came flooding back and when I was there nothing came flooding back. So I have no memory or it's it's very, very locked away. How was that finally getting the truth of some of that and having a whole new script written of the life that you thought you were living and all the things that you were told? And then it was just kind of flipped. How did that feel? Yeah, I'm still unraveling all
of that. You know, this is now 15 years ago I went there. And then I guess 13 years or 12 years since I've met my birth mother and still it's still unfolding of how it is, you know, at being there and finding out that information. I was completely dissociated. I remember even viewing myself from. This above place, yeah. And experiencing it from this removed, you know, I call it this protective bubble.
I was in that projective bubble. I was, thank God my husband was there because the way that it went down in the room with the social worker, she would give me a little bit of information and then she would stop and say, what else would you like to know? And I would say okay, and I would come up with some more questions. She'd answer those questions. Stop. What else would you like to know? And I was just like, it was a pressure cooker because I wasn't sure of what else I wanted to know.
I didn't know all the questions I want. And I was so afraid that I would not remember to ask. These very pertinent questions and I just wanted to scream and be like just fucking tell me like just read. It I want to know everything. Yeah, and but it's just not the way it's done or not the way that she was conducting it. I really honestly believe that she ended up telling us a lot more than what probably what she was supposed to. And it got done that way that it was just.
No, because she asked me. I had to tell her so she was what else would she like to know? So my husband was there and I would just look at him and it was like a deer and headlight, you know, just frozen, just like. And he would say, well, and he would come up with a question and OK, OK And then I we I'd ask that question and then it would trigger more questions for me. Having him as an advocate for me was incredible. And. So the process of being there, I was really removed. Emotionally.
I was, it was, I was really more in that heightened, like this is an adventure and I'm finding out all of this stuff and it's so interesting and I'm so curious and I'm delighted in the adventure of it all. But I wasn't at all sitting with the gravity. Right. And really feeling it then or even in the the years between. Being there and meeting my birth mother, and even after meeting my birth mother, it's just it's like I said.
It's just been this unraveling of my experience and just feeling, feeling deeper and deeper into myself as the years go on and as I do more processes and more healing and more uncovering of what is deep, dark and in below all of the. Below all of those constructs, you know, kind of like what I was talking about with the identity. It's like all of those being constructs, so are the constructs of I am happy, I feel good, oh I'm depressed or whatever. These those are labels too.
And states of being that I've needed to get underneath all of that as well to really be with it and really sit with it. And then of course in the doing of that, you know, you meet or I've met my 3 year old self. I've met my infant self. I've met these parts of me that had been rationalized away. Yeah, that oh, she had to do it because it did this, this and this and all the conditions in Korea.
And ah, you know, it's like we intellectualized the meaning behind and even can say words like I was traumatized, words like it was hard for me, but not feeling into the actual. Depth of how hard it was for me until I did that, I had not really faced what that seminal moment set in motion. So what was it like growing up in your family and not looking like them because you came to the United States? I'm assuming they were white parents. Yes. And how was that? It was. Very difficult.
And, you know, and that's when the dissociation started, really. You know, I was coming to them. This part I don't remember. So this is, you know, what's told to me. I came off the plane and I'm with, you know, like 30 other Korean adoptees that are all being brought over. You know, we landed at JFK. My parents and I have a brother so similar to your story at My parents had a child and he was four when I was adopted. So they were there to pick me up.
And I came off the plane with all these other kids and they said that all the other kids were screaming and crying and some of them were just like rolling around on the ground and like hitting their head on the ground and like, just awful seeing, right? And I was just stone cold, just stoic and calm, and I just walked calmly where I needed to be. My parents would tell this as a
a source of pride that I was. Calm and and good-natured and you know, you show she was so skied, everybody else was freaking out and she was just like I was frozen to death, you know, I was completely scared to death and that was my way of coping there. Those kids were letting it out and screaming and crying and. I couldn't. I was completely frozen. So that's what I don't remember.
I also don't remember when I got into my family home, my parents said that I would just at night be in night terrors. I would be screaming, crying and they couldn't wake me up, so they would just hold me until I like fell out of the fit. But they couldn't wake me up to be like, hey, you're safe, you're safe or whatever. I mean, they would be saying that in English and I can't even understand them because I speak Korean. So all of it is just a
nightmare, right? Even if I had woken up, what the hell would have that done? You know, I probably would have screamed more because I'm like, who are these strangers, you know, holding me? Right. Those are the things I don't remember, that I know, of course, shaped deeply who I am, and I locked all of that away. And then? The things I do remember are growing up in, you know, guess the white family in a very white
community. I grew up in a suburb of a city in New Hampshire, so very white and homogeneous and you know, it's safe and lovely town. But there was just nobody else that looked like me, and certainly nobody else that culturally was like me. So I was erased. I mean, I was just completely erased and in order for me to survive that I had to adapt and just make myself into a perfect citizen, a white citizen, which I still see myself as what I
mean, I now see myself. Yes, I see myself as Korean and Asian and from. It looks perspective, but I don't have the customs, I don't have the culture. I'm very white and so that's what I grew up in. And similar to you, I know culturally you feel Italian, right? Because that's what you grew up in. It's it is so powerful.
This, even though I had three years, I spoke the language, ate the foods, I lived there in the country, all of it was just erased and I just became white kind of overnight. I mean, it took a month for me to learn English. And you know, I'm eating all the foods and loving my chocolate milk and Donuts and all these things that I was given and I seemed on the surface of happy child. My parents would describe me as happy. I didn't have any outward signs of trauma to where they were.
Like we need to get her into therapy or something. Like some adoptees I know have been sent back to their countries of origin because of how. How traumatized they were. And it was not stuffed away like mine was, you know, they acted out. Yeah, so I didn't knock out. I was perfect little child, you know, I and then become a straight, A student and cheerleader and blah, blah, blah, you know, all these things that masked really the truth of what was going on beneath the
surface. And so it was difficult for me. Once I realized it was difficult right now, I didn't know that I was. So fractured. I didn't know how dissociated I was until I knew it. I remember a happy childhood, but that's only what And I and I have very few memories of my childhood, so that's another thing. I know that is sign or symptom of the fact that things were not right because I don't remember a lot of it, but what I do remember was.
Mostly happy and mostly good. However, my adoptive family is a fairly dysfunctional family and you know, they got divorced, my parents when they were when I was 14 or you know, 13 going on 14. So, you know, it wasn't like that was all, you know, wonderful and right. And your mother ended up moving away and so you didn't get to see her. And that is a crucial age to have lost another mother. Yeah, being a teenager. It was. It was a really, you know,
second abandonment. Even though, again, I didn't realize that it was then. Everything, just it just piled on the trauma. I was fortunate enough to have had a massive head injury when I was 16 and through this accident I was connected to my soul. And I didn't know that's what it was. But in the hospital, I'm 16 years old in intensive care, my parents aren't there. I mean, they would come to visit, of course, the time, you know, during the day when they could.
And. But my mom was living in Los Angeles at the time, so she had to fly back. And I don't even remember, honestly, the weeks that I was in intensive care, if she was there the whole time in New Hampshire, if she had gone back to. I can't remember that. But the times that I was alone in the hospital, which was a lot. This voice came through me and started speaking for me and advocating for me and was telling the doctors what I wanted done, what I didn't want done.
Questioning them about these procedures, these pills. What was I getting done? Why was that necessary? Is it necessary for my healing and I'm just kind of again dissociated or just out of body in that protective bubble watching this all happen and going, what's going on? Like, wow, who what is this voice?
And. I completely trusted it, but also didn't know what it was, where it was coming from, and the voice followed me back home to my recovery because I had to be at home gosh for months and months before even I could go back to school for part time for a little bit. But I was at home for months and. My dad had to construct this makeshift hospital bed.
Basically it had to be at a 45 degree angle because I had a skull fracture and a traumatic brain injury and and the cerebral spinal fluid couldn't flow out of the fracture. So I had to be upright in this bed. So I would lay there and. The voice would be there. And I eventually figured it out that it was my voice. It was my inner wise self. It was my soul that was speaking for me, that was advocating for me.
That was then telling me that I was going to be okay and assured me that I was going to be completely healed and completely fine. And then as I trusted it and and realized wow, this is what it is. I would lay there for hours because I had nothing to do right. And it taught me myself, taught me. I taught me how to visually heal myself. I would. Vision myself as a fully healed person, doing all my normal things. Running, dancing, cheerleading.
Again, all because it was a cheerleading accident. I don't know if I mentioned and, so I would just visualize my healing. Visualize laughing and running around and playing with my friends and cheerleading and and driving and, you know, being independent, normal teenager, yeah. And it wasn't until years later that I realized that I was actually self healing and had
learned how to do that. Then I just thought, oh, this is me. Thinking positively or this is me, you know, hoping for the best. But I would tell my dad that I'm fine. I'm actually better than fine. I know that. I'm 100% healed. Nothing's going to be wrong with me. He was so scared to like, let me out of the house, which of course I would be too. But I knew, knew that I was fine. And that was my first opening to both my soul. And beneath the surface of all my trauma.
So that's why I call that accident a gift. Because everything that had been locked away, it was finally, now ready to be examined. It's not like I just was like, let's look at it all, let's, you know, heal everything, Let's go down this path 100%. But the box was open. I couldn't, couldn't deny it anymore. And that was an incredible. Shift for me, yeah. It's either we have to give ourselves permission.
I think a lot of adoptees don't think that we can open that Pandora's box that we're not allowed to until we either realize that we can or we see other people doing it. And it's like, I can do that. I can have feelings about being adopted. What do you mean? You know, I've been told. To be. That I can't, Yeah, by giving yourself that permission is huge. But you said a little bit earlier about adapting and you said that you had to. Can you expand on that a little bit?
Yeah, I think in order to survive the trauma that I had been through, I feel like I had to adapt. I couldn't at all explore. I didn't feel safe to. And maybe this is again my soul knowing that. You're not in a family and in a situation that would be safe for you to explore this. They're not open to and or capable of handling your trauma. They are capable of providing a roof over your head and wonderful food and, you know, nice clothes and they're capable of showing love, but they were
not capable. And and who knows maybe had they been served that up they would have stepped up and been able to you never know because I think the life is infinite possibilities And and then had that they were presented to them that could have triggered something to where they were like who didn't know I was going to face this in this lifetime. But here I am and I'm I'm stepping into it that that could
have happened, however knowing. Both of them, you know, for the last, you know, 47 years now, it is my strong feeling that they would not have been able to deal with that. And my mother, even more so than my father. My father's maybe less emotional, but that's where my mother's. Falls apart. She's she's much too emotional. She's a mess. My dad has a lot more strength than my mom, but my mom maybe showed more love than my dad, you know?
But the the, the irony is that my dad is the one who has been able to continue to be in my life because he's able he with that strength. Mix with the love that he of course has. For me, he's been able to stick it through really some rough times because as I did start to heal and uncover and discover and and go down the deeper, darker paths of my healing, I of course brought some things to him and faced, you know, darkness with him and he was able to handle it and was able to also.
Apologize and live up to things that had happened within our life that he felt he was responsible for or had a part in. And he could, he could stand with me and say I'm sorry, I'm sorry that that happened. Whereas my adoptive mom, you know, she just had no capacity for that at all. Well, those types of people that have those emotional roller coasters, those emotional roller coasters can be make other people in their lives limited.
It's very controlling and we be having that emotional roller coaster because you react to their emotion and then you maybe act a different way because you don't want to be on that roller coaster with them. Exactly. And in therapy, specifically regarding my mom, you know, I know that I had to pack away my problems because her trauma was so big. It was the only thing that energetically took up space. Like it was the only thing that
mattered. Even though she wasn't dealing with her trauma, it was just it was very present. That was all we could make room for. Wasn't she adopted as well? Yeah, she was. She had an extremely traumatic upbringing, early childhood, so you wonder how much of A role that played in the mothering you know? Yeah. I mean, she had no good model for mothering. She also had so much trauma from her experience and my heart just deeply goes out to her and always did.
But it got to a point where I couldn't carry her burdens. And yeah, yeah, so you admitted to having some dark times. Where were those related to adoption in any way or what was going on? Yeah, definitely related to adoption. Again, not knowing that it was, not knowing that I was so deeply traumatized by that. And I would say started in high school.
It started before the accident that I talked about where I was drinking and had a bad boy boyfriend who was not good for me and good for my. Really. Broken heart. The thing about it is that he was so broken that it allowed me to remove the lens that I could put on myself and focus it on him. Yeah, just complete denial of myself by being in relationship with him. And so there were a lot of signs
and and bad turns. While in high school, although I still was outwardly performing, you know, and doing the the dance, so I was, you know, captain of the cheerleading squad. You know, the next year after that accident, I, you know, it was, you know, National Honor Society, all this stuff, right? I was a good girl in in many respects and played that role really well. But I also was in deep rebellion and also deep pain. You don't think anyone rebels because they really want to.
I think they rebel because they are calling out to their caretakers or to the world at large being like, help me, help me. I can't handle this on my own and get to this place of where it's like, well, F you if you're not going to help me. Because I didn't. I never outwardly asked for the help. I didn't know how. I didn't know that I needed it. But my soul was screaming out right help. I need this help and so. That's where it all started.
Then I got to college and life just kind of started to get more dark there. And you know, drinking the drugs got heavier and for the very first time had thoughts of suicide. Never to the point of where it was serious, like when I'm planning something or. But thoughts of suicide and if you looked at my behavior, it's like that was. Also self-destructive enough that it is almost like suicide. Like I could have died in so many situations that I put myself in.
And yeah, spirit wants me here. Yeah, it didn't, but I could have, yeah. So those dark times were lifted. The veil of that time was lifted when I was 20 years old and I well, actually I was probably a year earlier. I was probably 19 and things got so, so bad where I knew I needed to do something. I didn't know what. I was lost last completely and I hated myself so much even though. I had always not liked myself in my appearance and the very kind of fabric of who I am.
I didn't know myself as soul. I knew myself as this Korean girl, you know, trapped or this what I felt like created girl trapped in a Korean body. Like I didn't. I My identity was so fractured that I didn't like myself before all of the bad behavior. But then pile on all this. Awful self-destructive behavior and I had gained tons of weight and I was just like gross. I just felt and was gross and not caring for myself at all. Something some things.
My soul spirit called me to this study abroad office and I went to the office and I don't know, I can't remember the actual circumstance around, but I ended up in there. And I was having to study abroad. I'm going to go out of the country. I'm going to on the surface, I'm going to leave my problems behind. But deep down, I knew it was going to be transformative for me. I just didn't know exactly how. So at 20 years old, I'm in New Zealand and I have my first very, I mean to some first.
But it was a. Conscious and also unaided spiritual awakening. And I say unaided because I had been experimenting with psychedelics for years prior to this moment. But this was a sober moment on a mountain. I'm hiking and I came out out of the trees and took off my backpack and I had been grumbling for hours because. I was so tired and I was so out of shape and I just felt like shit. And I didn't like my body. I didn't like being in my body.
I felt like a complete impostor. Like who am I to be having this experience? Like, I I don't deserve this experience. I don't deserve to be here. And I'm just like grumbling. And I literally put my hand on a tree to like, help myself up. I got stung by a bee. I had never been stung or I guess once in childhood I'd been stung. But you know, I get stung by a bee. I'm just.
All pity party and I got out of the the woods part of this hike and I'm on this Vista and all of a sudden I see where I am just like oh I'm on this part of this mountain and there's this valley below and it's just gorgeous and everything's open and the sun's finally hitting me. And so I take my backpack off and I I pull out my journal to write some and journal about, you know my my experience and. This card falls out of it.
It's my memorial card for my grandmother's death, as she had died two or three years earlier and I had been, you know, carrying this card around with me. It was in my journal and it fell out as I opened it up. So I went and picked it up off the ground and when I came up the entire space around me exploded in light and knowing and complete oneness. And I was just floating in.
It just couldn't I? I felt so at peace, so in love with everything myself, the universe, the trees, the the air, and in complete knowing that I was a part of this, that this was me. And I was experiencing the vast and expanded part of me as part of this whole. Wide, expansive universe. But that I was only this this this piece of it. And then I heard the voice that said and shared this mission of that I needed to heal my heart. Find my gifts and then share them with the world.
And I was just that that was the okay. Yes you are this expanded oneness. But you're here on a mission, and you are this individual who needs to go and. Heal your heart. Find your gifts, share them with the world. Go. And then everything came back to being. I like landed on the ground. I was back in that moment and fell to my knees, just like in a spiritual epiphany, like fell to my knees bawling and just couldn't believe it and knew in every inch of my being that.
This is who I am, and this is what I need to do. But then, like, as immediately as I knew that, all the fear started flooding in. Like, how am I going to do where'd you go? Voice? Like, I know I need help. I don't know what to do. So I was 20 years old when that happened. And then it's taken 30 years, honestly, to really fully come into this full reunion with my soul. It's always been there. I've had lots of dalliances with my soul over the last 30 years. Moments of miracle, moments of
healing, lots of moments. But those moments have also been cut in by still like the demons of my trauma. So it's just taken this many years to deal with that and understand the trauma and the demons and everything that has been constructed over just the dealing with that, to then come out on the other side of feeling like the whole person that I am. So I know my healing journey's been kind of like feeling my way through what feels good, what feels right.
And then if that door shuts, then you just make a U-turn and take the next fork in the road. What did your path to healing look like? It was like a roller coaster, so many stops and starts, so many highs and lows, just like what on the surface looks very messy, but it's all perfect. And I know that, you know, I know that it is just been the most perfect unfolding of it all.
From that moment in New Zealand when I was 20, I came back, I graduated from college and then I moved to San Francisco. And that's really when I started to dig deep, go to see different healers. I was exploring a lot of different religious philosophy doing my own self help.
I was very selfled. I did not become part of any type of indoctrinated system, although I looked at many different systems and gleaned a lot of information and knowledge and wisdom and truth from so many different teachers and
systems. However, never went in and and then became a devoutee to anything specific and went deep and started to uncover and unmask some things which in the process of that led me to a very pinnacle moment with my adoptive mom of finally getting to a point of where I could face her. It was like facing the dragon honestly. Like this scary fire breathing mythical beast. And I finally faced her and came out with my strength, with my what had been healed up until that point self and said no
more, no I no more of that. I'm not going to be treated this way. I'm not going to be deal with you. I'm not going to be under your thumb. I'm not. I'm no longer going to take your bullshit or abuse and then our Rd. you know, has and then roller coaster, Ryan continued. With her and and certainly with my healing and all of the, you know, things unrelated to her as well. But it was that first facing of her that was very of a pinnacle
moment. But then you know, the healing was mired by my own refusal or denial of the healing. Still that self denial, Self destruction, Still the drugs, just different drugs. Still the bad boyfriend, but not as bad as the other one. Still lots of me dabbling in yeah my healing and dabbling in this space of spirit and selfish soul and. But it took well, I don't know. There's not anyone thing. It's all of it combined, really. Meeting my husband was preceded by two years of intensive
healing. And I had done, like I said, different healing, different exploration. But I had spent prior to meeting him, two years of this very intensive healing, both in experiencing it for myself as well as learning processes and therapeutics to teach and share with other people. And when I came out of that, I ended up in lo and behold meeting my soul mate, meeting, you know, the man that I was meant to be with in this
lifetime. And in the process of our relationship unfolding, so much of myself more deeply has unfolded and he's been amazing mirror for me, someone who's challenged my petulance and also has seen me as the best version of me and forced me to live up to that. Yeah. And. And I did the same for him, you know. And that's why we're very suited. Yeah, in this lifetime, because we've been able to do that for
each other. Yeah, I think through the process of healing, especially for adoptees, the big deal that I found for myself is having compassion for yourself through the process of learning, because there are a lot of decisions that you're going to make that aren't. Going to serve you well, but you'll figure that out and then just grab for something else and eventually you'll find that healing combination and everybody's combinations
different. So just keep trying, but have that compassion for yourself through that process because you're not perfect and you've been through a lot and, you know, look at those parts of you and just honor them because they helped you survive, you know? Zach Yeah. So we were talking before we started talking here on the podcast about what we are doing with the hypnotherapy. And I'm doing the somatic mindful guided imagery and you're kind of doing something similar.
You call yourself the soul guide. What do you mean by that? What does a session look like? What are you doing with that? I've practiced and learned and been in part of different traditions and trainings and everything that I've ever experienced for myself. I've also been very hungry to learn it, to share with others, and I know that it's part of the mission, right? Find your gifts, share them with the world like okay.
I am not in this for myself. I'm in it to share this with others and and I hope continue to help awaken other people that they are their own healer, they're their own guide in this life. So the Soul guide work is about connecting people back to that inner knowing that they are their own mentor, healer, creator, guide for themselves. And that all the different practices, all the different teachers, the lineages, the medicines are helpful tools.
You know, they're there to support you like a crutch does when you need it. But then as soon as you can walk on that foot, that's bad. Don't use a crutch anymore because you're actually not going to fully heal if you continue to just use that, right. So it's similar in that all teachers and teachings and medicines I found to be not just helpful but vital at certain moments. But then I needed to learn how to walk on my own 2 feet from that moment forward.
I needed to trust in my soul that I could move through this and handle this. And then yeah, that might lead me to another teacher, might lead me to another medicine. But it was listening into that inner guidance that really was the turning point for me of remembering myself. The turning point that, oh, I'm not broken, actually don't need to be healed. I am fully healed. I just need to remember that, oh, I'm not traumatized. I'm just continuing to tell the story of my trauma.
I'm retraumatizing myself. Oh shit, I'm going responsible for that. Like okay. So it's a lot of self responsibility, a lot of looking in the mirror, a lot of just taking full responsibility for myself in this life and being led by soul. And so that's what I've discovered through everything that I've experienced and then learned and and learned to
teach. So the sessions are essentially combination of the practices in a way that help people get into a place where they can connect into that inner knowing. Each session might look different from the one before or the one after. It's really about me reading the room and reading the person or people that I'm working with energetically connecting to them. So there's what we say and then it's who we are, right? It's what we appear and come forward as, and then it's what's
behind all of that, right? So it is. I use my intuitive gifts to be able to actually see what's really there. Yeah, see what's most present. There's a lot of things there. All of it is the wholeness of that person or people is all there. But as you know what is most present for them, what wants to come out, what actually wants to be exposed? Because the things that don't want to be exposed, it's no good for that individual or that group of people to expose that.
What does want to be exposed and what are they ready for? So it's a lot of reading into the person or the people. And then what it might look like on the surface is guided meditation, visualization and walking. Talking people through and into a place where they are reconnected to their inner self, their inner being, their soul. To then go and find and bring back the gift, bring back the answer, bring back the healing, bring back whatever it is that
they need in that moment. So on the surface, calling them guided meditation visualizations. I also have been toying with the idea of calling them motivational meditations because people have a very specific idea of what a meditation is and unless you meditate. Because once you meditate, you know how vast meditation is. But if you don't meditate, you kind of think it's just one thing. Yeah, And you feel like you need to relax and you need to don't think of anything, you know,
don't let the left brain talk. You got to be quiet and all that. And that's not not what you and I are doing with our hypnotherapy and meditation. It's not like that. You can relax, but you might. That might not be what. It's going to happen a lot of times. You want people to get relaxed so that they're slowing down their brain waves, right? And getting into that hypnotic state, that data state hopefully and that's that's great to get them relaxed to be in that
place. But then it's very active, it's a very lot of visualization, a lot of use of imagery, a lot of actively talking to yourself, going in, creating scenes for yourself that you are stepping into and allowing things to unfold. So it is a very active process versus a Lotus position. Remove all thought. Yes, I always tell people the great part is all the answers are already inside of you. The bad part is all the answers are already inside of you. You just have to want to access
them. And that's the big hurdle right there is. Do you really want it? Are you really ready for it? Because there's a lot of people that don't want to. I mean, for me and you, if we want to heal, we want what's next. Show me what's next. How do I get to the next level or how do I get to the next healing, you know? And I think once you start eating that dish, it's like, I want more. But if you don't even take that first bite because you're scared what it's going to taste like,
then you're stuck. So I think that's kind of what we're trying to do through these hypnosis and guided imagery and things is to kind of get past that. And a lot of adoptees don't trust themselves. They don't even know who they are. So if you don't know who you are, how are you going to trust yourself? And the answer is that you are giving yourself. So those are the huge hurdles that I see that adoptees have in the healing process.
I was listening to Simon's podcast and you said you believe your soul or your essence is unwoundable, just like he does, And I do too. Why do you think adoptees lose their essence or lose their authentic selves? How does that happen? The trauma of adoption, which a lot of people don't like to talk about, right? I think it is a very taboo subject societally, not just within the adoption ecosystem. I think it's just a taboo such as like, Oh yeah, you you were in a bad situation and now
you're in a better situation. Period. End of story. Be grateful. So there is the initial trauma of being not with your birth family anymore or with your birth mother specifically. And then there's the re traumatizing of the Oh well you are not able to talk about that. Be grateful you you're better you're told. It's like you're in this. Psyop like you're told this is better. You were saved then saved and you're like this feels not
better. Like this doesn't feel right and you know, and everyone has their own layers of that or I guess different intensities of that. You know, some people it's like it's it's way, way worse in their adoptive family than than what maybe they had left from. And other people it's like, well, it could be better and in all of these ways.
But we cannot deny the fact that we have been torn from the very essence of our birth mother, the exchange of DNA, the exchange of hormones that goes on during that process. That something very, very fundamental has been taken away with no explanation. I mean, one kids at those ages couldn't understand it. So then it's just confusing. You're so confused. So there's a fracturing that happens, right? Which happens in really all
psyops, right? You just you, you become this other person here I I am this me, this adopted person. I'm no longer me, this original birth from my original family person. I can't be that. It's too painful. And then I can't go even deeper back to my true essence. So people like us, we come with some added difficulties, baggage, barriers to returning to our soul, self and our true essence.
Everybody in our culture has those barriers because we're not raised to believe that we are souls in a body having this experience or that we have any sort of power, that we are the Divine. No one tells you that. No one teaches you how to access that or work with it or live from that place unless you grew up in a very unique situation. It's not the normal thing. So I think it's fairly typical for people to be removed or distracted away from this miracle of self and our experience here.
And then for adoptees, just that added layer that is in the way that needs to be dealt with first. And so there's a lot to dig through. And then like you were saying earlier, not everybody has the strength of resolve to go there and deal with it. And maybe that's just their soul's path, this lifetime that it's just not the time for them to. They came here to experience it, but you know, maybe it's next lifetime that they're going to actually deal with it.
Do you believe that our trauma or our triggers can be treasures? Absolutely, 100%. If we go through life experiencing everything as an opportunity to grow and learn and love more deeply, life is beautiful and amazing. And so I have chosen to believe that it's not only the successes and the wonderful things that happen in life that are the gifts. It's also the tragic, traumatic, awful moments that happen that
are also gift. And not even just because, oh, I learned this amazing thing about myself after processing it, but in that full experience of life to go, wow, this is what full feeling is. This is the full spectrum of this human experience. I get to experience that. I get to have all of that and trusting that it's not going to break you and you or that if it does, you're still going to be okay is the place to get to if you want to live from that place. And I'm not suggesting people
need to live from that place. I have just chosen to live from that place. And what I've experienced is a depth of joy and of love and of understanding and compassion and meaning. That is so. I call it magic because it's magic. Also, it's a loaded word for many people, but I call it magic because it feels that way. It feels like there's just this magical energy around life when lived in its full expression. Yeah, I think if we can. Turn our thinking around.
When we get triggered, we're already pointing a finger at the other person or somebody else or our circumstances or whatever it is that triggered us. But really for me, I feel like it's almost like a warning light on a car. Where why is that triggering me? It's kind of like the little beacon that's saying there's something that you need to deal with. Look in the mirror.
You know, so if you look in the mirror and you're pointing your finger, you're pointing the finger at your back at yourself. And that's totally, I think, what needs to happen instead of projecting out. And you see it all the time on Facebook and social media where people get triggered and they just start spewing all kinds of hate and everything else. And it's like that's just a part of you that needs your attention that you're not. Focusing on and it's really
screaming, you know? Yeah. And the ones closest to us can trigger us did most deeply right. And it's just like who pay attention to that. Look at that. That's your, you know, just invitation to explore what that brings up for you, why that scares you, why that pisses you off, why that is so deep for you.
So we have all these incredible opportunities to enrich our experience here by not only understanding the depth of emotion and the depth of feeling and the depth of experience, but then actually becoming more enlightened through it. Yeah, not only for ourselves, but you. Then you start to reflect back out into the world and you see that, oh, this person is going through this because I've experienced that. And then you just gain a ton of
experience that. You then have a much more compassionate view of the world because you've been there, done that, like oh, I've been there. I've lived it. I know it, I experienced that. And so every one of those shitty experiences just going to, I think. It makes us more in tune. Yeah, and even from being a child, when you're angry that emotions labeled as bad. There's emotions that are labeled bad and good. And really, they're all just trying to tell you something,
right? They're not bad or good. It's just another warning light that's trying to get you to look at something. And the great thing is, the universe loves you so much that it's going to keep sending you that same signal until you finally get it. Because it wants you to feel whole. It wants you to fulfill your purpose, it wants you to give your gifts to the world, and it's not going to let up on you until you do. So you can put the brakes on all
you want. And that warning lights still going to stay on. It's not going anywhere until you look at it. You're going to repeat what you don't release, what you don't heal. So that's what's great though, about the universe. It loves you that much. Your essence loves you that much that it's not going to stop trying to make you whole, right?
I always kind of end on a question of what do you want struggling adoptees to know that they are whole, but they're not missing or lacking anything that is real truth. The things that they're most likely seeking are right there within, waiting for them to welcome them back. Like love as an entity as they So it's there waiting for you to say yes to it. Yes, please come back, flood back into my life. It doesn't need to come from a
parent or a family or a partner. It's coming right from within, and we get to experience that in a depth that's beyond what we can experience from another person once we really fully welcome it back. All of those things are there. All the things that that someone who's struggling might be seeking out here, whether it's safety or belonging or love or anything, all of it is just waiting for you. Yeah. And the getting back to the welcoming back of those things in your life require some work.
I mean, the struggle is very real. And so I'm not here saying, oh, you just have to remember that those things are in you and then boop, you're you're back. I mean, there's work to be done. If you value life itself, not just your own life, but life itself and or you're on the other side of the spectrum, you're like, I just want to have amazing, amazing life. I just want to live the best
life I can. Then you're on that precipice, you're right there at that place of taking that first step into welcoming that back. But then there's a lot of doors and they need to go through and some of those doors are being held closed by protectors in your life. You know these guards that you've put up, that your life and your experiences have constructed for you to keep you safe, to keep you sane and well and all of those things in the
at the time. And it's about having some courage to go in and face those things. To face down and say my life, life itself is worth it enough, My best life is worth it. Enough to go in and actually start to walk this path open or pry. These doors open and take responsibility for ending the struggle. Right. Starting that journey can be uncomfortable. It could even be painful at times.
But if you think about it, you're helping to alleviate or altogether end the long, enduring suffering that you're already in, so you can stay in that suffering forever. Or you can start the journey and maybe start feeling better, even though it's part of the journey. Might be painful, but you know, you might be able to alleviate it in the end. The other thing that I'll say is that we are in this position where we have ultimate power but also ultimate responsibility,
right. I mean that cheesy line from Spiderman, that is so true. It's like with great power comes great responsibility. We have that and that's the precipice that I was talking about. Just take that First step is to own that, to own that full power. But also with it comes full responsibility to actually continue to take the steps and pry the doors open. It's a beautiful thing.
We have the power to actually change and end the struggle, and we are the only one that has the power to do that. So that's the other point of acceptance, is that no one else is going to do this or could do this for you. No one. Not the best therapist in the world, not the best partner in the world, not the best parent in the world, not the best promotion or whatever other thing that you're looking towards to be a validation of yourself. None of that is going to do
anything or can. It just can't. You have to. And while you get to do this and you get to have this responsibility and you get to have this power, and it is so beautiful and fun and also incredibly just. It's such a gift. It's such a gift to get there. Again, not an easy Rd. for it wasn't for me. I mean, I shared a lot of, you know, the struggles along the way and it's certainly not an overnight thing, but it all starts somewhere. Yeah, it's totally worth it. I always say that.
Is a gift that you have to give the world if you're not giving it. We're all missing out. We're all missing out. You're missing out, but we're all missing out on it too. And you're the only one that can fulfill whatever that purpose is. And so get your ass about it. Get out there and do it. Because I need what you have. So get working. Tell us where we can find you. You have a website, any social media. Tell us about that and we'll have the links and show up. Great.
You can go to my websites, carissastlaurent.com and that talks about me a little bit more, but also just my services and offerings and and what I do in the world. My Instagram is at the Everyday Mystic and that's the name of my podcast. It's called the Everyday Mystic. So you can check out the pod, you can go to Instagram and check out. I share a lot of mystical woo woo things on that Instagram profile.
From Instagram I have a link tree which links to all the other things, but I can also share that with you to put into. Perfect. Awesome. Well, I've enjoyed this conversation today. Carissa, thank you so much for coming on. It's my pleasure. Thank you, Melissa. And I just love these stories where I can. Interview the person about their adoption story, but also talk about spiritual things and healing and what is helped. You know when we take responsibility for how our life
is going. That's the first step in making a huge change, and you've heard me say on this podcast before that you are one decision away from a different life. One decision and realizing how much power you have in you to heal yourself. It's truly amazing and I've experienced it myself. And if you have any questions, contact me, Contact Carissa. We can help you if you are sick and tired of being sick and tired.
Over the traumas that you have been through in your life and the ways that those things have affected you, please reach out. Carissa's links are in the show notes. Find her website, check her out, check out her podcast. She offers a lot more than what we could cover in this episode, so go check it out. I had a wonderful e-mail from a listener this week through the website which is mind your own
karma.com. And just when I was kind of feeling like, why am I doing this and just kind of feeling tired and down about things, I get this wonderful e-mail from this person and this person is going to be coming on the show in the coming weeks. But I just want to let you know how much those little notes uplift me. The other thing I want to say is when I offered for this person to come on the show, their first response was me. You want me to come on your show and tell my story?
And I was just like, yes, you. Yes, come on, let's go. And so she was brave and scheduled the interview. And I just want you to know that if you are not sure on how you want to tell your story, the great way to tell your story is coming on a podcast. Because I ask you questions and all you have to do is answer. All you have to decide is what you want to reveal and what you may not want to reveal. Because those are some things that you need to think of ahead
of time. But other than that, come on the show and tell your story. I heard my new favorite quote this week and it says the scars you share become lighthouses for those that are headed for the same rocks you hit. And that's the purpose of this podcast. Come on the podcast. Tell your story. There are people out there needing and wanting to hear your story. It's our responsibility.
If we feel like we're in a place that we can tell our story and want to tell our story, it really is our responsibility to do so. So reach out to me, I'm easy to find email.mindyourownkarma@gmail.com. Website mindyourownkarma.com, Facebook, Instagram, YouTube pretty much everywhere. So get in touch with me and let's get your story on the podcast. I hope you enjoyed listening today. And as always, take what you need and leave what you don't. And always remember to mind your own karma.
I'll see you next time.