S2E75 INTERVIEW WITH NICOLE KOHARIK

Hey there, it's Melissa Brunetti and welcome to the Mind Your Own Karma podcast. Hey. There, Karma crew, Thanks for listening in on another episode of Mind Your Own, Karma, The Adoption Chronicles. My guest today is someone that I met through Fireside Adoptees, the Facebook group for adoptees only, and her name is Nicole Kaharik. Let me tell you a little bit about Nicole. Nicole is a domestic transracial adoptee, born and raised in Cleveland, OH. She grew up knowing she was adopted.

Her father, a decorated Marine turned Catholic priest, adopted her after she had been left with him when she was three years old. Mother's Day has always been particularly difficult for Nicole, despite being a mother herself, having been raised by a single father. It defined the fact that she did not fit in. Early in her marketing career, Nicole joined the adoption community through volunteer work with Adoption Network Cleveland, a nonprofit that supports everyone touched by adoption.

After serving on the Special Events Committee, Nicole was asked to join the Board of Directors. Through this work, she accepted adoption as a complex, lifelong intergenerational journey with ongoing impact for all whose lives are touched by it. This epiphany helped her realize her feelings of pain, confusion, and self doubt were a natural part of the adoptee journey and inspired her to dive into the

work of healing. Nicole spent years on what she calls her journey of self discovery, working to understand how being abandoned and adopted shaped her thought patterns, decisions and relationships. This journey inspired her to share her truth to validate and uplift her fellow adoptees. In 20/19, she launched her blog and social media platforms, The Adoptee and Me a place to share the journey of self discovery.

Since then, Nicole has shared her lessons learned about identity, change, loss and love, aiming to inspire adoptees to embrace their inner adoptee and build healing connections. Since 2021, Nicole has served as a member of the Fireside Adoptees Leadership team, where she leverages her 20 plus years of marketing and communications expertise to help guide the organization's mission and evolution in service to adoptees

at every stage of their journey. A few years ago, Nicole embarked on a new chapter of her adoptee journey to find the mother who left her behind at the age of three. The search began with her original birth certificate, involved multiple third party organizations, and lasted much longer than anticipated. This latest chapter of her adoptee journey inspires Nicole to share her story about the emotional. Roller coaster of search, self

discovery, loss and hope. Here is my interview with Nicole Koharik. So we are welcoming Nicole to the show today. I'm so excited. We've been trying to get you on the show for a long time. If you're finally here, so I'm happy to invite you on the show. Thanks for having me, Melissa. It's it's so exciting to be here and I'm excited for our conversation. Yeah, Nicole and I met through Fireside Adoptees, which I mentioned a ton on the show here and do not know your story.

So this is going to be fun. So we're going to just jump right in here. There's so much I want to talk about. So let's just start with what were the circumstances? What do you know about your adoption? Well, such a loaded question because there's what I thought I knew, what I grew up with and that information, and then there's the recent information from the last few years of the search experience.

So that's kind of where I am on my journey, is working through the realities of the new information. I found out recently. What I can tell you is that when I was very young, I always knew I was adopted. And my father, my adopted father, actually adopted. Me as a single parent. So I was raised by an amazing single dad, and he told me what I knew of my story when I was very young was that your mother left you with me to babysit one

day and never returned. And that is the mystery that I grew up thinking about on almost a daily basis. Where did she go? Who is my mother? What happened? Why did she leave me with him? So it's been definitely an interesting journey and I think that that's when I think about being adopted. It's definitely a lifelong journey. And when I started viewing it that way, it brought me more peace because I know that it's going to continue.

And even though, you know, I learned a lot recently, there's always going to be a next phase. So it's always changing. It always does seem like there's three stories. Or like the edited version of the parts. And then what really happened, Right? Exactly. That may be true, but the detail of the why. Like one of the things that I thought about a lot through my childhood was what's her story, you know? And for a long time I didn't want to search because I didn't want to disrupt my world.

But I ended up actually doing that a few years ago, and I'm glad I did. Yeah. Even my side of the story isn't totally accurate, but it's my perception of what happened. So that's my reality and my truth. And I don't think that's a wrong. That's a wrong thing, you know? I love that. I think that is one of the keys of being adapted and coping with it is realizing that it's all about your truth, and that's up to you to understand and to

define. And knowing that is something that brings me a lot of peace now. Yeah. So you said you always knew you were adopted and so you just grew up with one father. And so how do you see adoption affecting you growing up, being adopted even into the teen years looking back? Because I'm sure at the time you don't even realize, but. Yeah, well, it was kind of one I. I had to know because I always felt out of place. So I'm a transracial adaptee. I didn't find that out with data

until recently in doing my DNA. But I never looked like anyone. I didn't look like my father. I didn't look like anyone at school, in my family, in my community even. And I didn't see any diversity until college. And that is actually ironically, or maybe not so erratically, when I started to feel like I was starting to discover who I really am. You know, we talk about identity challenges with adoptees, and I definitely face that. And being a child really felt kind of like an alien.

I knew I was loved, but I never felt like I really belonged anywhere. Right. So growing up, getting into romantic relationships because of a lot of adoptees have trouble attaching with attachment issues. Did you see that playing out at all in relation to romantic relationships? It's interesting. I saw challenges with romantic relationships, but definitely not attachment issues. Almost the opposite. I would probably, I'd say

attached a little bit too much. There's a funny story about one that I wrote about in my blog. When I was younger that I was reflecting back and realizing once you come out of the fog you realize all of these things that have happened have somehow connecting back to your adoption trauma. And this is one that I've told on Fireside before and I think it's all about my abandonment issues.

I literally chased this poor boy who was supposed to be my boyfriend in 3rd grade around the playground, asking him because I heard a rumor that he liked Monica. And I chased him around and said me or Monica, Me or Monica. Like I was a very shy child. But as soon as I thought my relationship in the third grade was at risk, I was like, I need a decision. So I was very territorial. And I was actually that way with my father too. He told me he tried to date and that I would insert myself

between him and his. So you know that security was really, really important to me and I actually ended up, I'd say the opposite of having attachment issues. I attached a little too much and probably had some control issues too because I didn't want to lose anyone ever again. Yeah, right. So how was it growing up with your dad? Good.

It was a good experience. You know, my father is an amazing person and I know it's we talk a lot in adoptee circles about, you know, being grateful and how terrible that is. I think it's terrible when someone projects that on to us if they say. You know, you should be grateful. No one should ever project how someone should feel for their lived experience. But I will say that I am grateful for my father. He's an amazing man. He has a great story.

He was a American hero in Vietnam and Purple Heart veteran. I have all his medals and he loved me unconditionally. He still does. He's been my rock. He is my first teacher, my first love. He taught me to believe in myself before I did, way before I did. And I he was amazing. So I was fortunate in that way. But I still had that deep down pain that his love wasn't enough. No, no. That's one of my key messages. No adoptive parents. Love is enough to heal those wounds.

Yeah, and I learned that. First hand, because I was loved and I had a great experience with him. But I still felt that pain. I still felt like an alien. I still felt like I didn't belong. And so I know I'm proof that I love isn't enough to heal that wound. Yeah, It doesn't matter how much they try, how much that adoptive parent tries. There's nothing they can do. And it's not anything that they necessarily did wrong or right or anything like that.

It's just there and it's going to be there, you know? Exactly, exactly. And it's important for adoptive parents to know that, Yeah, because I I want them to try. I want them to to love their their children unconditionally and be that support that they need and, you know, be their self-confidence when they don't have any. But at the same time, they can't think that that's going to be

enough. And they have to create that space to really let the adoptee explore their feelings and ask questions and have those uncomfortable conversations. Yeah, I think there is a ton of education needed for the adoptive parents because they have no clue what they're really getting into or how to really help that child adjust exactly. Not a puppy. You know exactly. I don't understand why. And you know some kind of mandatory training or classes are required.

I think you know, when I think about advocacy work, that's what I want to see. It's so important and that would make such a difference. Right. So did you have any siblings growing up? I did not. I was a spoiled only child. And by spoiled I don't mean with material goods. I actually joined Toastmasters early in my career because I was like I said, I was very shy child didn't feel like I

belonged anywhere. So I was quiet and kind of observed everything and and kept my mouth shut unless I was in a comfortable space. But I joined Toastmasters because my career depended on it and I knew I had to do presentation. That is terrifying. Oh my gosh, it. Was master. Terrifying. But I threw myself into it because I knew that it would make me better.

Yeah. And it was a safe space to mess up and to have people count your arms and, you know, give you that feedback that you don't get otherwise. So I did it, and I'm glad I did it. Yeah. And I kind of have a history of throwing myself in the deep end to learn and grow. But growth is a personal value of mine. So that's important. But when I joined Toastmasters, I had to give an icebreaker speech about myself. And this is way before I, you know, was really out of the fog.

And I said that I was an only child. And I I was a spoiled only child. And I said, but I wasn't spoiled by material things. I was spoiled by love. And my adopted family was more like a fan club than a family, because they were very, you know, my, my dad and his sister and my aunts and uncles and cousins were all. Super supportive of me. So that definitely made a difference. But like we said, it doesn't change. And that's the part of my story I wasn't telling.

I was only telling the happy part in the beginning. And now I'm at that point where I'm very in touch with who I am, my truth, my pain, my journey, my transformation. And I want to share that story to help other people, you know, get to that next step, wherever they are. So what did happen? You said in college you kind of started finding, you know, yourself and exploring. And is that the point where you kind of were starting to think

about your biological family or? In college, I would say I was kind of independent for the first time. I went away to school, but not far right. So I I'm from Cleveland, OH, and I went to. I stayed in state for college, but I went away and stayed at the dorm. And, you know, I was kind of a homebody and I liked my safety net and my dad and my aunt, his his sister, who was a big influence in my life, both said, you know what, you need to grow up and be independent.

So you're going to stay? At the dorm and you can come home on weekends And I was like, what? You're like Velcro or killing Velcro. Yes. And I was like, wait, this is my safety net. It's scary out there, but I'm glad they did that because I learned so much. And I I learned I grew, I failed. And I actually, it's interesting because my career is in marketing and communications, but I was undecided for a very long time my first year. And I found a mentor.

And again, reflecting back, thinking about my adoption and how that's affected almost everything. And I was looking for strong female mentors and people to guide me in life because I didn't have that. I didn't have anyone to call mother, and I was always missing that. So this professor, Dr. Plude, I was so impressed by her. She had a Harvard pH. D. And she was my mass communication professor, You know, I was taking like basic

courses, exploring things. And I went to her one day and I said, Dr. Plude, I don't know what I want to do. You know, I need a major and I'm undecided and I want a career, and I don't know what I want to do. And she helped me so much. She said, you know what? Let's not think about the decision because that's obviously weighing heavy on you. I need a direction. I need a direction. Let's think about what you like to do, she said. Take the course catalog, look at

kind of the the options. Come back to me, tell me what you're attracted to, what you're interested in, and then we'll talk about it. And it worked out great. I went back to her, I showed her the classes I was interested in and she said, you know what? We just finalized a new major called Applied Communication today. They call it public relations. And she said everything that you picked aligns with that major. So I think that's your, that's your North Star, that's what you're meant to do.

And it is. And I love my career. So that moment was very empowering for me for the first time, kind of know what I want to do with my life. But it took, I'd say, even longer than that to really realize my identity, because at that point I was like, OK, I'm a communications person, you know? So I would define myself based on the things that I did. And not who I was. And that took a lot more exploration and self discovery. And I took myself on that journey because I felt like I

needed to know and it was a gap. So when did that journey start do you think is was there something that triggered it? That's a good question. I'm not sure. I just know that I would be in conversations as an adult with people and people would be talking about, oh, I like this and this is my preference and all these people had these preferences and experiences and. Seemed very grounded in in who they were and when I would reflect, I've always been very reflective. I'd reflect on the same

questions when I was alone. I realized I didn't have answers. So I said, well, this isn't right. And I knew that the reason I didn't have answers is because I didn't know where I came from. I still, I think, was in the fog at that point, but I knew that something was missing. And then I sat down and I said, OK, what are your favorite things? What do you like? What makes you happy? And a lot of that work actually was triggered by a major life

event, and that was my divorce. When I found myself kind of rebuilding myself, I was trying to think about, well, what what would make me happy and what do I need in life? And I didn't really know. So the work of recovering from divorce actually helps with my adopted journey as well. Yeah, and the similar story. So what helped you? What helped me back then was myself work and myself reflection and I purposely created space to self reflect and I ended up doing that through writing.

And it's interesting because I launched my blog in 2019. But I had been kind of reflecting on these questions and writing for myself to process. Who am I and what do I care about and what are my values and what matters to me? Really big questions for a long time before then. And I've always loved the creative process of of writing and it's interesting because. It helps me not only get clarity, but also process my

feelings about being adopted. And I will tell you, my husband jokes about it because he calls it dark poetry, but in the darkest moments when I was really wondering about my mother and where she was and who she was and if she was still alive. I would just write. I would write about her. I would write about my feelings. I would get emotional, but I would get it out and I would get it on paper.

And it was really empowering. And that's why I started writing my story more publicly, because I realized it was healing for me. And then eventually I realized that it was helping others too, who had similar feelings. Yeah. So you were when you're going through this process? Did you realize you were coming out of the fog at that time? I mean, did you even know what the term the fog at that time were you in the adoptee community? You know what's interesting is I

first. Entered the adoptee community literally in in person, not online, early in my career because I was a volunteer for a local organization called Adoption Network Cleveland that supports everyone touched by adoption, and I was doing that as part of my career. I wanted to give back to my community, I wanted to get experience, and I wanted to make an impact, a positive impact. That's just who I am. So I. Again, with self reflecting, well, how can I give back to my

community? I'm like, well I'm adopted, I can help this organization. So I was definitely still very much in the fog at that time. But then, through the process of engaging with other people who were touched by adoption, both adoptees adopted parents and birth parents, I definitely started to come out of the fog through all of that interaction, and I started out on the Special Events committee.

As a volunteer and I was so passionate about the organization and loved the work and the people that I didn't realize that I was starting a healing process by being around others for the first time who had feelings like mine. That's why I was so connected to the work. I was asked by the executive director, I was asked to join the board and that led me even deeper into. This realization of, wow, we are here to help people like me, and I didn't realize I had a problem, You know, kind of

ironic. But I'm grateful for that experience because I think I probably would have stayed in the fog much longer had I not had that experience. And I would never be where I am today on this journey and feeling the peace that I have now. If that didn't happen when it did in my life and and it took a long time after that even to get to this point, but that was a definitely a major inflection point on this journey.

Yeah, I think for me, just, you know, I thought, oh, there's these adoptee groups on Facebook. I never thought about joining, you know, if that'd be fun, you know, So I get on there. And I was just like, what is happening, You know, I was just so shocked. And it wasn't that. I didn't realize that some of that was going on. I didn't feel the permission to feel it until I went on these groups and I was like, wait a minute, we can say that, You know? We can. Like we're not supposed to say

that, you know, or whatever. And it just gave me the permission, even though I knew it was there. It gave me the permission to be like me too, you know? I love that. Yeah. Mission. That's exactly right. I I can relate to that for sure, yeah. How did you feel? I knew there were like, I had feelings of, you know, uneasiness. But I didn't know until I was immersed in the local adoption community that those feelings were connected to being adopted. That was. The epiphany, I was like, whoa.

And I think that pushed me out of the fog. But I heard other people's coming out of the fog stories, and I have to say it wasn't a. Bad experience for me. It wasn't painful. It was more of a relief because I had these feelings that I recognized. I just didn't know where they were coming from. And now I had the answers. I knew where they were coming from. And I knew that I had trauma and

abandonment issues and loss. And I was like, well, no wonder, you know, And I suddenly felt OK and better about who I am in myself. And I didn't feel shame anymore. And I think that is a, you know, a major stigma of being adopted. That shame Some people don't, even as adults tell other people. And I've been around. I'm very loud and proud, obviously, but I wish everyone could experience that. And that's another reason I tell my story, is because I love our adoptee community and the

support that we have. But I want to reach the people who are in the fog to help them realize, you know what, It's OK. It's OK to feel that way. It's normal. And guess what? You're not alone. Right, exactly. So how did you feel? Maybe you felt it in that group in Cleveland from the beginning, but for me, like I said, coming on social media, it was like hitting a wall. I had no idea the trauma that was out there. How did you feel? Yeah. Absolutely.

That was very eye opening. Very eye opening for me, especially because I was thinking about my experience growing up with a very supportive adoptive father. And then I was hearing all these stories about very terrible, terrible situations with abuse and neglect and the adoptive parents and the narcissism and oh, it just broke my heart. And it still does. And that's why, you know, communities like Fireside are so important because I want to be

there for. Everyone who's still hurting and we all have some pain, but Oh my gosh, so many people, so many adoptees are suffering and it breaks my heart and they need support and that's so important to me. I wish every adoptee had a support network and knew that they were not alone. My podcast was totally something different when I started and then I may be two months in. After joining these groups, I was like have to pivot my entire podcast. Now I have to do this.

It was just, it was meant to be. It really was meant to be. But it did. It impacted me that much to where I just absolutely I'm turning, I'm doing, I'm going doing something different. Well, thank you for doing that, because it's so important for adoptees to have a place, to have a voice. So many feel unheard and unseen, and you're helping in a way that's going to make a difference in many lives. So thank you. Yeah, now's the time. You know, we're rising up.

I mean, everybody, the whole constellation is getting involved in the movement, which is so great. I mean, even adoptive parents and even hearing the birth mothers stories, I've had a few birth mothers on the show and it just gives me so much compassion. I can't imagine walking away from your baby not knowing who is going to raise them, thinking you're giving them a better

life. That's what they're told, you know, And just walking away, I can't imagine, I can't imagine that the trauma that that would cause. I know, and I have to say, hearing the stories of birth mothers and the community and seeing my original birth certificate and realizing, you know, my mother was young and not from the state and had me as a teenager in this state but was from another state, I quickly connected the dots before.

Where I searched and and had it just gave me so much empathy for her, My anger and my frustration and all the dark poetry I wrote. Just suddenly all of that heaviness just lifted and I was like, wow, I knew something had to be wrong. I knew that she, you know. Was going through it and gosh, I'm so glad that I have that information and that I've heard birth mother stories because now I have so much empathy for birth mothers. It's really sad.

And society, just like adoptees, does not view them well either. And it's really sad because, yeah, they have their narrative that they have to live by two. Yeah, they. Did the best for your child. You did the right thing, blah blah blah. You know, right. All that narrative too. They have the same thing. They have to carry that loss and pain the rest of their lives. Yeah, there's always a story behind the adoption, you know, bleeding up to there's got to be a story.

So I don't know if you want to share any of what you found out, whatever you're comfortable with sharing, but I kind of want to hear what happened. Oh, sure, yeah. So oh gosh, it was a few years ago. I woke up on a milestone birthday and suddenly had a panic. I was reflecting on my life, as I usually do on my birthdays. And I sat up in bed and I said, Oh my gosh, I think it's like about my own mortality. But it hit me really hard and suddenly.

And I said if I don't look now, I might never have this opportunity and I could die with the regret that I never searched. And in that moment I said I have to do this. It was. It was wild and it was so overwhelming and it almost felt like it wasn't just me thinking this. It felt like it was inspired and this was a calling.

I needed to do this for myself. And one thing I learned through the search process is that I assumed, incorrectly, that, oh, when I decide to search when I'm ready, the information will be there. And I learned that's not the case. So it took multiple searches, Three searches in fact, to finally find the information I was seeking. And I still have a lot of questions and some puzzle pieces that are missing.

The first search uncovered some information about my birth father and I found out he was local and I found out he was African American and I found out that he lived here in Cleveland, but not much more information. And then I continued to search for my mother, because she was nowhere to be found and all of the documentation that was uncomfort in my search was more so about my my father. And there wasn't a lot. So I actually proceeded through my relationships with Fireside.

I met a search Angel through Fireside who helps me connect with DNA Angels, and I went to DNA Angels and I said I've done the search process. I still can't find my mother. I don't know if she's alive or dead. This is information I was able to find. I know she's from South Carolina and I know, you know she was this age and this is her name and that's all I have and and a little bit about some other relatives. So I also did DNA and I that was another let down.

I thought when you do DNA, oh the answers are just there and if you have close family members, they'll want to talk to you. And it's not true either. And then so I found a first cousin of my mother's and I was thrilled. And I saw this is it, this is this is this is what I needed and no response. So then I found him on Facebook and no response. And then eventually I kept trying. He responded very cryptic answers, so so cryptic that I couldn't even tell if she was alive or not.

And at this point? What a roller coaster. I just could not believe. I cannot find this woman. I'm like, there's documentation. There's, you know, all these records that should be out there. If she's dead, there has to be a death certificate. What? What's going on? Why is she so elusive? And why is this family member acting this way? So then DNA Angels did the first search and applied through the process.

I highly recommend to any adoptees who were searching and especially like mine, have a tough case to crack. Go to DNA Angels. Yeah, well, I did that and they said they exhausted all their options. They found more information. I gave them all the information from the first search. They still couldn't find her. So they closed my case. I was depressed.

I couldn't believe that. I finally decided to be brave and to do this and to spend all this time and effort and energy and emotional roller coaster and still no clarity. And then Kelly Grace from DNA Angels actually engaged with me to interview me about my unsolved case, to write a blog for DNA Angels. And she felt so bad for me. She said. You know what? We're gonna find your mother. She said her first name. We're gonna find her. And I said what?

She said no, I'm serious. We're gonna find her. And then a few days later, she sent me a Facebook Messenger message and said I have a surprise for you. And she reopened my case with six of her best angels. Wow. And I could not believe it. I was so touched and so, so happy that I had another shot after I thought. It was time to give up. I never wanted to give up, but I think God opened the door through Kelly. Literally my Angel.

And it worked. It took a while, but this new search worked and they found her information. And I will never forget it was November of last year. I was working and all of the communication is done through Facebook Messenger with DNA Angels. So you have a record of it and all the documents are there and it's, you know, quick communication. So I was, you know, always looking, always looking. And I remember I was in a meeting at work about our new website and I got the the message.

And I was trying not to look distracted, but it said, you know, we found her and I just lost it. I didn't have any information, but I just was in such disbelief and so happy and so scared that I just my body got 10 degrees hotter and pass out. I had, I almost did. I had to excuse myself from the meeting. I couldn't even say anything. I just literally left the meeting and walked away because. I didn't know what to do. I looked at the messages and said, I'm sorry, Nicole, she's

deceased. Oh. And again I was shocked. Again I was in disbelief. And again, the emotional roller coaster search having hope. Again after so many missed attempts, failed attempts and then finally that hope being taken away yet again. But I now looking back I learned that moment.

Change things for me because while she's deceased and I was really, you know, down about that for a long time, that was the worst Thanksgiving I think I ever had because it was November and I just wasn't into it and I was really sad. One I will say the adoptee community was amazing. I wrote my heart out and I shared what happened and so many just outpouring of love and support from all my fellow adoptees on Instagram and Facebook was amazing.

So that helped uplift me. And then also in addition to finding her and finding that she was deceased, I could not believe it. She died in 2019. That is the year that I started my blog. And maybe that's why I was so compelled to search the I mean, just connecting the dots, you know, it's really miraculous. And I learned that there was some family still in South Carolina, some cousins and and other people that DNA Angels did put me in touch with. So.

I was able to connect with them and hear about her as a young person and some stories about her growing up from other people, and at the time it meant a lot to me. I was too sad to really realize how valuable that was. But now when I look back, I am so grateful to have learned about her and finally heard her story through other people's memories. And that's what I have. And you know what? That means Everything. I wish I wasn't too late and that we could have met.

But at least I know her story and I know that she, you know, I wasn't a secret and that, you know, she was running away from a really, you know, challenging situation. So she did what she had to do at the time. Because, yeah, he wasn't. Able to to take care of me and barely able to take care of herself. So I have so much empathy for her and I'm so grateful that I heard about her and received pictures, which is something

that I never had. So I love my pictures and I will just have to hold on to her memory. Yeah. Any resemblances? Yes, yes, she's like the. Blonde me, Yeah. We have like a very similar face shape, like the very like kind of angular square face. She definitely has the same face shape. And then actually an adoptive friend of mine. And I posted about it, made a sidebyside picture. I posted her pictures and she made a sidebyside picture of her and me next to each other.

Oh, I was really touching. Yeah, I love that. Yeah. Do you have any siblings on either side? Do you know? OK. So the last time I did a podcast interview, I had just found out that same day that I had a I just. Was in contact for the first time that I had a biological half brother that she had later. He's younger than me and he's living in California. I had one great conversation with him and.

I lost. I actually was planning on trying to go see him when I went to California for a recent trade show conference for my work and I don't know what happened. He disappeared. So I don't hold it against him. I'm just disappointed and I think he has his own struggles and I have to accept that. But again, just like my mother, I don't have her in my life, but I have other people's memories of her. I don't have my brother either,

but I know he exists. And I had one great two hour conversation with him that helped me achieve even more peace. Because what he told me was so amazing I had no idea what to expect. And he said, you know what? She called you Nikki. Which is interesting because my whole life when people would call me Nick, I mean, no, I'm Nicole. But yeah, she referred to me as Nikki. I was not a secret. And she told him about me. And she said that she wanted to find me.

And she told him this in the hospital when she was declining. So on her deathbed. She was thinking about me and that answered that question that I wondered my whole life is she thinking about me? And was I a secret? And those are the answers that I wanted. And that, again, was a gift, because if I had not searched, I would not know. Right. And did you ever meet your biological father's side?

I did not. I do have a second cousin who I text, 2 second cousins who I text with, but they're not close enough to know him. So my next step in the search journey, which I had to take a break from because that was a lot, yeah, but my. Next step is to figure out I would like to find someone who knew him. Like I found these people who knew my mother and could.

You know, I think he died very young, so I might not be able to find that, but that's my next goal is to find someone who knew him or to find more about his story, because that's still very, very cloudy to me, Which is interesting because I found his information first, but and my mother was the elusive one. But I still don't have, you know, close family or anyone who

who knows him. I did find a third cousin who is amazing from my father's side, doesn't know my father, but welcomed me with open arms and is just so sweet. So it it's been an interesting experience and I've met some amazing people who want to help and have an open heart and have empathy and I am thankful for that. Yeah, so did you find out if the story that you were told was true, that your mom left you with the babysitter?

Is that? I think it was true, yeah, because my dad told me that she kind of left me with different babysitters, including him. Until she didn't come back one time. And if I look at my adoption records, I was adopted at the age of three. That means she kept me for three years, yeah. I was not given away at birth, right? She tried. And that breaks my heart even more, because she tried, right? And she, you know, she had to make a choice. But she tried.

And that means everything to me. Yeah. So you have a son and I. Do looking back on like how you raised him, do you see adoption playing a role in like your style of parenting? Absolutely, absolutely. So I would say that becoming a mother after growing up without one was one of the most amazing and. Fulfilling experiences that I ever had and one of the first

times I felt whole, ever. You know, growing up with no one looking like me and never seeing my own reflection, Having no genetic mirror, finally having a genetic mirror that I made myself was miraculous. I mean. And I will never forget when I had my son. The doctor said, oh, he looks like mom before I even saw him. And I remember being like, Oh my gosh, summer looks like. What? Amazing. I can't believe it. And then I just fell in love when I first held him and we found it instantly.

And we are still very, very close. And I love him so much and he's more than a son. He's the the love that made me whole. So were you kind of overprotective then with him growing up? 100% I hate to admit it, but it's true that Velcro is still there. Exactly. It's my extreme intense attachments, Yes, and. And actually, I know we're joking about it, but that was another rough time in my adoptee journey when he decided to go to the Navy after high school and

entered boot camp. I had separation anxiety. I was not ready. I was used to him being around and not being able to communicate on the phone or text or anything. Except for letters. Handwritten letters. It killed me. I was crushed. I was so depressed. Probably the most depressed I've ever been in my life. And I wasn't sure if I was going to make it out of that. And I did. But.

That was a very dark time. A lot of dark poetry happened during during that time, and that was my coping mechanism and

I would check. I would come home from work and check my mailbox every day looking for a letter and it only happened a few times, but I still have those letters because they meant everything to me. And then I would wait for my phone to light up. And I knew, you know, the city where he was looking for that city on my phone because obviously it wasn't a cell phone, It was a landline. And I'm like waiting. And it only happened a few times, but each of those calls was was amazing.

And when I went to his graduation from boot camp, Oh my gosh, that was quite the reunion. And it was, it was amazing. So yeah, that was very, very challenging. It definitely triggered my abandonment issues and I am fortunate for my my husband who stood by me and told me it would be OK and tried to distract me and. You know, took me to my favorite places to try to and I mean really nothing worked. But he tried and it was it was important.

I, you know, I felt like I lost everything with him being gone. And it was really weird because it was kind of scary that I could feel like that because it wasn't just missing someone knowing he was coming back. I felt like my brain interpreted it as. A permanent loss. I was grieving him as if he had died. And it was so weird and I was so scared that I couldn't snap out of it. And fortunately I did. But wow, that was a scary, scary time.

Because I was so attached and that genetic mirror was. I didn't realize. I realized when I had him, but I didn't realize, you know, after. He was in high school that he was still playing that role in my life as my genetic mirror, and that having him in my life on a regular basis was part of my healing. And seeing him and interacting with him made me feel more whole. And when I lost that, even though it was temporary and I knew it was temporary, it's like my mind didn't, you know, wasn't

confusing that. Yeah, yeah. Wow. Yeah, that's tough. The grief I can. I can totally see that though, because that separation, because you guys were so close, you know the whole time growing up and everything, all through high school and then even in the Navy like now he's got to go on deployments and stuff, right? Well, he. Is done with his his contract, so he is back home and I'm happy to have him back home. Here in Cleveland. So yeah, now he's building his life.

So I'm I'm thrilled. It's amazing. I didn't know that that would happen. I thought for sure that he would just be off another. Other states, other countries, who knows? You know, he's very adventurous, right? And I can't help but wonder if he had to get away because I was so attached. I hope that's not the case. But it could. It could be, you know. Yeah, yeah. Break the break you needed. Yeah, no, it's good because he needed to find his own way and be independent. And I'm glad that I.

Did not stand his way and right. I knew it would break my heart, but I had to support his choice and I had to show him support and it was a tough decision because I had to sign for him at 17 and I thought I was signing his life away and that was that was really hard. But he was very strong willed. He knew what he wanted to do. He had researched it.

And I had to support him. So I I did what was right for him and I tried to, you know, not think about the impact on me. And then then I felt it after he left. Well, I think having that child mother bond, you don't think that that's going to break apart as a baby. And then it does. And so with your son, I can totally see that because, yeah, he's leaving and he's coming back. But it's not promised. It's not promised. You don't know. You know.

You just don't know. And that's always in the back of your mind, I think. Right. So talking about the Primal Wound and the fog, and you know, coming out of the fog, what helped you when you were coming out? Deal with that. I know your blog and writing. And, you know, was there anything else? Yeah, I mean adoptees, other adoptees, and knowing that. Other people felt the same way, and that I wasn't alone and having that support even early

on in my blog days. In 2019, before I started the social media channels, I had the blog and it was so funny because I would write and then I would obsessively like look to see if anyone saw it, And then this one person, this other adoptee. Found it every single time I wrote something, she commented. And you know how they say if you could touch one person, it's worth it? That was my one person and that's why I kept going. So I'm so thankful that I

connected in that way. And eventually more people found it. But that like kept me going because that I was very much self doubting. You know? Is this gonna matter? Does anyone care? Can I really touch someone? It was really more of a thesis that I had that well, if I so share my story in a personal way, maybe I can connect with others and. I didn't know because I wasn't.

You know, it was my first foray into the online community and I'm so faithful and you know now that I think about, you know, Kovat and not being in person for a long time, it didn't matter because we still had each other online and our Dottie community was still engaging with each other and it was awesome. And then in 21 I joined Fireside. And the leadership team and that is just an amplifier for those adoptee to adoptee connections.

And I was so thrilled when Amanda Baum reached out to me and asked me to be on the leadership team. And we're still going strong and now we have over 800 members and we have great participation in our chats. And I just love our fireside community as a kind of a community within the overall adoptee community online.

It's great. I love being a part of it and I love seeing it grow and so touched by everything I hear on the chats and just having the honor of, you know, listening and and people opening up and and trusting us and and sharing so deeply. It's so important and I can see the impact and I love being a part of it. So lastly, what would you like struggling adoptees to know?

Well. I think there's three things I kind of think about my experience and what I've learned and things that I needed to hear. The first thing is that you are not alone. It might feel like that at times. And even if you have a supportive family, your family, only another adoptee can really understand and relate to how you're feeling. And we all have diverse experiences, but that's so important so.

I would say please seek out and prioritize connections with other adoptees because it really helps. It is one of the most powerful sources of healing that I've experienced in my very long journey. Two, you don't have to be a victim of circumstances that beyond your control. Um, that's one of my biggest takeaways is that sometimes we act as if we no longer have a choice because our choice was taken away as a child or as a baby. But you know what?

We're adults now and we have a choice and we can live the life that we deserve. And it's so important to not only realize that, but to act on it. And it takes a long time to get there. And but when you do, it's really liberating and really empowering. And that's what drives me. Every day is I am living the life that I want for myself

because I'm in control now. And three, gosh, I think that you know, just being compassionate with yourself and giving yourself grace and accepting your feelings and it's okay to feel sad and even if you think you made a lot of progress. This journey is not linear. I mean, mine has been like this, so lots of it's a roller coaster, Lots of ups and downs. But don't give up. Believe in yourself. Be your own best advocate. Love yourself. Truly love yourself. It's hard to get there. But.

I want that for every adoptee, that self, self love, because don't look for it in other places. I know it's cliche to say, but it's very true. And my life, it was the unlock when I started to believe in myself and realized that I was in control. That's when my career took off. That's when I found my my new husband. And I am the happiest I've ever

been. And I'm glad I searched and I have my battle scars, But I am just really proud of myself, and I want every adoptee to take the steps that they're afraid to take, because there's so much growth that can happen, and I want every adoptee to feel that growth and to feel empowered that they can live the life that they want. Yeah, so true. So you have a blog along with being affiliated with some adoptee groups. So you want to tell us where we can find those things?

Sure. My blog and my Instagram and my Facebook is all the adoptee in me. So the adoptee in INME and orange is my brand color. So when you see the orange hearts, that's me and. Also, fireside adaptees. We have a Facebook group that's private, so you have to answer a few questions. We want to know that you're an adoptee, but there's also a public group or a public page for everyone in the constellation, because that's important too. We want to engage with all of our Constellation members.

Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Nicole, I know you had a lot of ups and downs like you were saying, but I always say that every story, there's somebody out there waiting to hear your story because your story is going to affect them and make them not feel so alone. So thank you so much for coming on today. Thank you for having me. I believe that too, Melissa. I really appreciate the time. I loved our conversation. There is so much I want to say about this interview.

I want you to know I don't pick and choose who comes on this podcast. I don't pick the stories that are going to be a tearjerker or make your jaw drop. The people that come on this podcast are random people that I have run into on social media or have been sent to me from other people that I know. They're people that have become part of the Karma crew and just volunteer to come tell their

story. And when Nicole was talking about when she got the message saying that they found her birth mother, after searching and searching and searching and having search angels give up on the search, someone finally was able to find her. And the excitement Nicole was feeling in that moment until she found out that her mother had passed away just a few years before. That is just heartbreaking. And that is the story of so many

adoptees. Our histories, where we came from originally, is kept from us, is hidden from us, is taken from us, and we have to claw and fight and hire people and spend countless hours trying to find our origin. And to do that and find out that you were too late is unimaginable. But Nicole handles it with such compassion and grace. It's truly amazing. I'm not sure I could do the same if I was in her shoes. Thank you so much, Nicole, for coming on the show today.

And thank you for spending a lot of your time helping advocate for US adoptees. And thank you all for listening, as always. Take what you need and leave what you don't. And always remember to mind your own karma. I'll see you next time.