Hey there. It's Melissa. Brunetti and welcome to the mind your own Karma podcast. Hey, their karma crew. Thanks for joining me for another episode of mind. Your own Karma. The adoption Chronicles. I just want to say real quick, we will be approaching 100 episodes at the end of summer and that is super exciting. A great milestone for mind, your own Karma and myself. So thanks so much for hanging in there with me through all the changes and the twists and
turns. I truly appreciate each and every one. One of you. So let's jump right into today's episode today. I have a very insightful, young man. Frankie Cohen on the show today. Let me tell you a little bit about Frankie. Frankie was born in Seoul, South Korea, and adopted at 5 months old to a family in Portland. Oregon being adopted has posed many challenges in his life.
Most of them still unresolved. However, over the past couple years he has been working diligently to try and Himself from the wounds of his past through deep self-reflection support from his loved ones and the willingness to be a better person. Frankie has come a long way. He, thanks you for listening to his story today. Here is my interview with Frankie Cohen so we're welcoming Frankie Cohen to the show today. I Frankie how you doing?
All right, I'm good. Yes, so let's just jump right in and tell us what, you know, about the circumstances has of your adoption. Well, I know that I was adopted through an agency called Holt's. I think their own organization that hosts a lot of adoptions and Korea, specifically, South Korea, specifically but maybe other areas in Asia and I was adopted at 5 months old, I was in foster care system up until when I was born, when I came to the United States.
And yeah, that's pretty much my story. I don't know too much. On that, I think I had a broken collarbone. When I was born, my bones are soft and so I think I did have some like medical issues. It's right at the beginning. Mmm, which kind of, I don't know. Complicated things in terms of just needing, you know, attention and whatnot. So yeah, so you don't know the circumstances like why your mother gave you up or you don't know any of that stuff? Yeah, they kept that pretty private.
Unfortunately. Yeah and especially in Korean. Culture. You know, I think I don't know this is like the story but like they had me out of wedlock and that's very frowned upon and green societies. So yeah, I assumed that it was kept pretty secret my birth so and then you are saying the agency that you were adopted through. Was it all kids from Korea? Only, or are you think? No, I think I think it was Pretty big in China as well. Okay, yeah. The most mostly Asian adoptions. Yeah, Asia.
Adoptions holds yeah, it's huge. And then we're all those children Coming to America or all over the world, you know, for that agency? Yeah, I'm pretty sure who is primarily to the United States. There's a big, like, kind of movement in like the 90s were A lot of children or being adopted from Asia. And whole was one of the organizations that I was a lot of those adoptions. Yeah. And do, you know, why, why your adoptive parents wanted to adopt?
Yeah. Sort of my dad's side of the family, had a lot of trouble producing healthy sperm basically, okay. So there was trouble on that end. So, Going to take a lot of like medical procedures to enhance that and my parents didn't want that. And I think yeah, I got lucky with my parents because they really they're very kind and understanding of like hardship. I guess in a sense and really want to make a better life for their friends and family.
And so when they were thinking about having kids, I think adoption, Option was always kind of on the table even despite the medical complications. So yeah. Yeah. I even so they never, they never had children of their own then, nope. Yeah, I have one other brother and he's also adopted from Korea. So okay but you two aren't related. I mean, biologically know. Yeah, why did they decide to go through and adopt from Korea? Because they're not Korean right? No. Okay, yeah, that's a great
question. Yeah, I really don't have chances for that. Yeah. And so you just have one other brother. They didn't adopt anybody else and they have no biological kids. Yeah, no. So this might kind of sound like a dumb question, but since you don't look like any of your family members because our Caucasian your parents right after parents when you grew up, did you? That you who are adopted? Yeah, my parents were very open about having the embraced by adoption. Now, they're open about it.
I embraced it to an extent and then it took a while for me, to actually come to like full acceptance of it, I think. Yeah. So they were always open about me being adopted, we would celebrate something called a coming home today. Hmm. So it was like, the day I came to America and And my mom would bring Korean food into the elementary school or whatever and it's cool. Yeah, just celebrate that day.
So yeah, so you kind of touched a little bit on struggling with coming to terms with being adopted. So talk about that a little bit. Yeah, I think it really like boiled down to when I started Middle School, just Adolescence in generals is hard and trying to figure out you know, your identity. And what Our and I was pretty harshly. Picked on for being Asian, a, my school, which was predominantly white.
And so, it confused me more so than anything because I would go home and look at my parents and they were white like, I have, you know, 20 cousins, they're all white, you know, my whole, I'm just in a white family. Yeah. And so being bullied for being Asian really kind of made me start to Isn't my necessity. Mmm and I, you know, develops very self-deprecating behaviors. And I didn't like the fact that I was Korean that was really hard to navigate.
So yeah. Yeah, I think it really just kind of like pushed me away from a part of myself that was inherent. Hmm. And that this Association, you know like anyone right? The this cessation from yourself. Causes a lot of problems just in general about, finding out who you are and what your values are and what you care about, what your morals are. And so, it took me a really long time to really understand that I'm not just Korean or like, I'm not just an adopted kid. Like I'm me.
Yes, I really have that deep sense of myself because I got pushed out from who I was kind of out of young. Young age. So yeah, and I'll lose your authenticity and start questioning who you think you are or who you should be against who you really are, you know. So how was your life think growing up in an all-white family? I mean, was it? Where did you feel different? Did you feel like you fit in when I was little? It was, it was, it was great. That's okay. Yeah, I always say it was good
because I always accepted. it was my, it was my grandmother who She made everyone feel like they are the most special person in the world. you know, it was I think when I was going through that hard time, you know, she was choose. I can always trust that she was always gonna be there for me.
And you know, I had my problems with my parents because child Parenthood so your parents but when I would see my my grandmother, you know, just just full Embrace of love and kindness and compassion, no matter what it was, it was
unconditional. And so, You know, I always trusted her no matter what the other people in my family, you know, it wasn't as like I never felt a stable of a relationship with people in my family because because of the loss of myself, and I didn't trust anybody, and but she was always there. So, so important. So you did talk a little bit about being able to sell it. Liberate your culture within your adopted family, besides the day that they got you and write
Korean food. Did you guys did they they embrace the culture at all? Yes. Sort of culture. So deep right. I mean food was a big part of the culture. Yes. And then my uncle actually married a Korean woman. And so he kind of had that tie. And so we go to her parents and her parents church. Usually and you know is all in Korean so we didn't really know. It was cool just to be around people who kind of look like me so right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So your sibling was also adopted.
How did you guys get along growing up? Hmm, not great. Yeah, my end. Yeah, you were older. I'm the younger sibling. You're the younger sister? Yeah, okay. And you know, I think part of that difficulty of resenting, my ethnicity. My brother was the, you know, archetype or person that I saw in myself that I hated mmm. And I wanted to destroy that part of myself, you know, so to
speak. And so, whenever I would be upset or, you know, I get picked on that day and I would come home and I just, I'd be so angry and I take it out on him. Hmm. And so it was a tough. I mean, it was a tough relationship just because for him, On my part because I just saw him and something that I didn't like him myself. Yeah, I let him know that. So yeah, that was too bad. I you know, I have a lot of regret, I have a lot of regrets for that. So how do you guys get along now?
We don't interact really too much. He lives in Canada with his wife and You know, if he actually just got married last year, I remember going up to him during his wedding. I'm just kind of breaking down crying saying, you know. Yeah. I'm just sorry. Yeah. So little by little, you know, I'll pick away at mending. Yeah. Well my relationship. But yeah. Tough.
Yeah. So we talked a little bit about how you kind of, you know, lost yourself and your authenticity and Junior High. And you're still a young guy, but do you feel like you've kind of embraced who you are? Or are you still trying to figure that out?
Yeah, no, I've been braced it and I really feel, you know, there's plenty of things that I need to work on and become more self-aware about and, you know, it's not over but I think fundamentally I know who I am and not just the good parts, but like the darker parts. And it's taken me a really long time, but I've slowly been able to kind of accept those parts about myself and integrate them in ways that I can use to kind of move through life. You know, life isn't easy.
So you know, sometimes anger is necessary and a lot of anger when I was kid, and, but it would come out like an explosion when I was younger. And I've worked really, really hard about learning to become aware of it learning to use it in ways that are that are useful and not destructive. So yeah. So I think you had mentioned in an e-mailed to me that. You said it confused you because your parents were Caucasian. What were you meeting by that? What were you? What were you thinking?
Like the kids who were picking on me? I mean, it was almost like not humorous per se, but it was confusing because, you know, culturally I'm just an American
white kid. Yeah. Now, Is how I grew up. You know I was fortunate to come into a very stable family and now I had a good childhood Now Sports and summer reading programs and friends and, you know, very very, very typical American Childhood and so then when I would get bullied for, you know, being Asian, I had to wrap my whole head around it because I didn't identify as that and yet that's how I was being perceived.
Left, right? And so it gave me a very deep understanding about the psychology of perception in general, especially from a child's point of view or prepubescent, whatever Adolescent and so perception is very important and so yeah that was that was the confusion. Yeah. So the anger that you carried because of the bullying and that kind of thing. It sounds like it was more from The Bullying than Anger from being adopted or was it kind of both?
Kind of intertwined. Yeah, I think the anger came mostly from the bullying because it was unwarranted but if I were to actually think about like my adoption and I can't really think about it when I was kid because I can probably understand it all that. Well, but I feel just so grateful. I mean, that's, it's almost Indescribable, right? I mean I was born and then put into a system that I could have been adopted by anybody.
Yeah. And I'm gonna Pat my parents on the back here, but I have probably like the most modest and humble, and hard-working parents that I could ask for. And it really, it probably saved my life. Mmm. So that's kind of funny how, you know, as adoptees were told that we're lucky. A lot of the time and it is kind of like a lottery. A lot of adoptees are told, you know that we chose you, but actually, you were just the next one up for adoption like, you
weren't chosen most aren't? I mean, I have heard of people that have were there with, you know, five other babies and then, Were chosen out of those that group of babies but most of the time it's basically winning the lottery. You know, when you get that grade adoptive family like that because I mean there's so many adoptees that don't have that story. I'm one of those two that won a lottery. So nice.
Yeah, yeah but I mean it could have been it like, is it could have been, anybody could have been literally anybody. So you sounds like you get along with your, you know, adoptive parents. Yeah, that's great. Have you ever searched for your or can you? I don't know what. Heidi would you even search in Korea for biological relatives? Yeah, I beat difficult again.
I think it comes down to the cultural element of that having a baby out of wedlock is is dishonorable and so I could go through the organization, but I think it's up to the birth parents to choose whether or not they would want to meet up. Personally, I I had no desire to meet my birth parents. Because yeah, I just think it wouldn't. Like, I don't feel any resentment. Well, that's maybe not true. Actually Yeah. Interesting right now, right? Yeah.
I don't think he would give me kind of the like, I don't know. I actually haven't thought about that question actually in a while, so I don't know where I went. Do they do DNA over there like ancestry probably? Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. So do you think you've suffered any Trauma from your a
relinquishment? You like have any residual Trauma from Probably, you know, I can't highlight exactly what it is. But the question that preceded, this one kind of invoke this thought of, well, I have Tendencies with attachment that coincide with a traumatic experience. And so, you know, I had a pretty good childhood in the United States. But that's not to say that it wasn't hard first five months. Yeah. And especially I think the disconnection from my birth mother.
You know. I think babies need that chemical bonding or yeah or other. I didn't get it. So right, so you're in your 20s. Yeah, yeah, I'm 26. Yeah. Yeah. You know, most people don't that doesn't really start hitting home most of the time until like
your 40s and 50s. It seems like from what I've seen out in the adoptee community It's kind of like almost like a midlife crisis, really, but it's about your adoption and just trying to come to terms with all that that entails including looking back on your life and being like like you were saying attachment disorders or, you know, problems with attaching and oh, that's probably why I do that. I do that thing. I do you know that I don't really like her. That's not really serving me you
know? But that doesn't usually come a long till later it seems, but I think the community is kind of coming. Going out now and talking more about what really happens with adoptions. And so I think the younger Generations are getting there a little sooner now. So I mean it's a good thing because I wish I had kind of explored it when I was younger and kind of gotten through a lot of what I've had to deal with. But I haven't had to deal with a lot because of my adoption being
so positive. Then that I see in the community. So many people hurting, I'm just like, oh my gosh, it just breaks my heart because I can't imagine some of the things that they've Through it's hard enough. Just being adopted like you were saying and being relinquished and taken from your birth mother and coming to terms with all that. But then when you have a bad adoptive experience in the family that just it's horrible.
So I'm so glad to hear it. The positive adoption story today, so you told me your experience of with adoption is taught you many things about life. What is adoption taught, you? I think the most profound thing that I've learned is that family can be anyone.
You know, like it's not a permanent off of blood per se and so you know, the love that my parents showed me and the love that my my grandmother and all my family and I have been very very supportive and encouraging and you know they want the best for me, they care for me. So it really drove me to to see the world in that kind of funds and to understand that People struggle. I mean, everyone struggles. Right life isn't easy and you need people to beat it for real. Yeah.
Through all stages. And so, you know, drove me to I'm in school right now to become a clinical psychologist. Hmm, mental health therapist and so I want to be that person who somebody can turn to when they're having a tough time, because I was given that From these random people who adopted me and I'm right. Oh yeah it's just taught me. Family can be anyone and that you know, showing somebody love and showing love can really turn a bad situation into something
beautiful, mmm. And and I was given that opportunity and I want to pay it forward as much as I can't. Yeah. And I mean, adoptee therapist, - are being highly sought out by adoptees. So yeah, that's exciting that you're going to be doing that. You know, I kind of touched on. There's a lot of hurting adoptees out there. What advice would you have?
For those that are struggling? I mean, you you kind of went through the bullying and then losing your authenticity and then kind of a learning to embrace it again. What made you turn around and want to embrace who you were? There's something that happened where you just sick of not being who you were. Did you realize you were not being who you were? Like what happened? Because you're pretty young to be like, you know, realizing all that. So, yeah, just wondering like,
how did you do that? I mean, the first thing that kind of comes to mind, is that I was sick of the person who I was becoming. Mmm. So through all that turmoil and all that adversity, I started to become very Nihilistic and cynical and narcissistic, I think as well. But it's all about me. Me me, why me? And and sorry. Blame people, it's your fault. This is why I am who I am or this is, you know, this situation that made me who I was. And I don't remember exactly
when it was. But I really started to realize that I didn't, like, who I was becoming Being you know, I was, I was hurting people around me, I was hurting loved ones, and I was hurting myself, and it was only until I realized that it was my responsibility to take care of my life that I really started getting into the work of self-improvement. So speaker self, self, healing, and self grow. I would say the, What specifically Did you do to start
the healing and growth? I started to, I think it started with humility was the main thing I got in to some trouble. And I actually ended up spending a night in jail, that'll wake you up. And I just remember, I phone call with my dad who's a criminal defense attorney. Hmm. And she wasn't all that proud of me up. And so, you know, I had I was in handcuffs and And feet, cuffs for the whole night. And I was just was thinking caps. L, like, how did I get here, right?
And I was like, I thought about it. I was like, well, I got myself here and that's when I realized. Like, I'm the only one who can get myself out also. So that is symbolic for My own self imprisonment and for ultimate Liberation or Transcendence or whatever you want to call it of, you know, the corrupted self. I had to take responsibility for my actions that's when I started doing and so. What did you do after that to start that Journey? Okay, so this is a good segue.
Yes, it was Buddhism. Actually, the structure of Buddhism that really Help me. And you know buddhism's it's not it's not a religion per se, it's more like a way of life is how I like to describe it and it talks about that life is hard, life is suffering. That's the first Noble Truth of Buddhism. It's like life is really really difficult and I'm like okay I agree with that. Tell me it's like I said I'm onboard and but second Noble
Truth is why life is suffering. Third, Noble Truth is that there's a way out in the fourth Noble Truth is that this is the way and one of the principles in the fourth Noble Truth Is Right understanding and it basically, this is the humiliating part is you have to become aware of the reality of the situation. You can no longer delude yourself into thinking that the world careened around you to torture you for you know, however I date whatever your whole life.
Life. But that you know the things that you did had a cause and effect. Yeah. And the effect can be positive or the effect can be negative and yeah. Anyways, interesting. Yeah. And then you are interested in becoming a death Doula and I've just been hearing about this recently. Sounds like an up-and-coming thing. Do you want to explain that a little bit? What is the death doula? Yeah, death Doula is basically.
I would say it's like a emotional mental health, counselor for somebody who's in the dying process. Death is one of those things that it is, the thing that is, you know, the ultimate unknown, right? Yeah. And when people are approaching that sage in their life, The death Doula is there to empower and support the person through their process. The things like, what do you want to do after your dad? Do you want a burial? You made a deal or something.
A little bit more difficult would be having a safe space to talk about the emotions that are bubbling up or that person in that time. I'm and they're very, very unique to the problems. Yeah, I had a friend. Stay with me. Who was terminal. I didn't know she was terminal, but it ended up being that way. And my biggest regret in that was when she would start to want to talk about that kind of stuff. I would just be like, nope, we're not going there.
We're not talking about that because that's not going to happen, you know? And I would just cut her off like, nope, we're not talking about that. And that's my biggest regret that I didn't give her that space. To talk about it. Yeah. To this day I'm just still like what I do that. I did it for me it was a selfish reason. I didn't I didn't want to talk about it. I didn't want to hear it, you know. But I yeah, to this day, I still feel horrible about that. So how do you learn to be a
death? Doula is there like a class or is it through your psychology classes? Is this like something new but there are teaching or do you just? I don't know. What do you happen to you? Become a dad? Abdullah. Yeah, so the like kind of the I guess. Like professional way. You become a death Doula is it? There's like several different certification courses. Okay. Then you can take each one, kind of bearing a little from the other. Do you have to have a psychology
background to know do that? Now, that's kind of the other one of the prerequisites. Basically is a predisposition, like, naturally to be able to talk about death. Yeah. And so I've had a lot of death in my life in general and I've always had an inclination to not look at it as something that I lost per se, but more as part of life, And I was always curious about it. So and that was when I was really young really, really
young. So I've always been fascinated by death and which has kind of allowed me to hold those spaces for people to talk about it. Because I'm interested in it as opposed to I think, you know, maybe the more normal thing would be to be scared of it and I don't know. Yeah, not that much fear about it, but I don't. So yeah, yeah. So the other thing that you do is you do Dharma talks in your area and I don't think a lot of people even know what Dharma is, so you want to talk about that a
little bit? Yeah, Dharma. And the kind of like the sense that I'm talking about it is just the teachings of the Buddha. So there's three jewels of Buddhism the Buddha, which is the goal, and that just means the enlightened one, the awakened one. So it's self-awareness, the Sangha, which is the community. So that's who helps you along the way. And then the Dharma, which is the teachings, and that's how you get there.
Mmm. And so the dharmically Us is Buddhist principles in the lens of daily life. What I teach? Yeah. Okay cool. I love talking about that stuff. Yeah. Do you follow Buddhism of it all you know, I kind of take a little bit from here and there but mostly yeah I don't know a lot about the intricacies of it like you do but the philosophy of it I think is what I embrace. About it. And like I said, I just, you know, whatever feels good to me and that changes, you know, as I
get older too is that maybe? I don't believe that anymore, but I used to believe 20 years ago, you know, I think as you grow and change that kind of changes as well. So, is there any advice that you would have for adoptees that are struggling? It's kind of cliche, but I think trust your gut as something that I would tell people just in general, you know, that means you have to listen to your gut. It's easy. To get caught up in like everybody else's voice. Hmm, But if you can quiet the
mind and find your intuition. Listen to that. Yeah. Listen to that there. Anything else you'd want to share about anything that we didn't cover like we covered it? Yeah, no, I think. Yeah, this is fantastic. I really enjoyed. Yeah, yeah. Well, thanks for coming on today and sharing your story, we're educating the world and one story at a time. You know, whether it's a good adoption story or about adoption stories. They're all educating the world about what really happens with
adoption. So thanks for sharing today. Thank you for having me. This was such a sweet interview for me. I have not interviewed someone so young and yet wanting to work on himself and be a better person at the age of 26. So many adoptees don't even realize that their adoption is affecting their entire lives. Until we are in our 40s and 50s. But I'm telling you because we as These are coming out and telling our stories, we're getting the word out about adoption and how it affects us.
It's going to help these, younger Generations realize it quicker than we did. And this is the whole reason I do. This podcast is to educate the world, but this young man at such an early age, is wanting to be the best version of himself the most authentic version of himself. And he wants to work on it at such a young age. It's so inspiring. And during the interview as I was asking Frankie questions.
I could just feel him thinking about what I asked and just trying to dig deeper and I'm sure as the week's pass after we did our interview that he will continue to process and learn from what was asked of him during this interview, it can be such a heavy topic. And I don't usually give my guests the questions ahead of time unless they ask because I like the interview to be spontaneous. I don't even do a pre-interview with anyone sometimes.
I don't even know what my guest is going to look like. It's new and fresh and just I love the spontaneity of kind of just doing it on the fly like that. I think it's more real, it's more authentic. And that way, there's no scripted answers, it is just on the Fly truthful, whatever pops into your emotions in mind in that moment to answer that question. So for me it just feels like it gives a more true and authentic
Flair to the interview. And I've had many guests email me afterwards saying, you know that question you asked me? I thought about it later? And this came to me and that came to me and it really got me thinking Processing. So that's why I do it in the style that I do and it is my hope that some of the questions I'm asking my guests, get you to think and process about your own situation and I hope it helps.
I know that hearing adoptees stories can be so validating, but I hope that you are asking some of these questions of yourself that I am asking of my guests. So that That you can get something out of it as well. And speaking of answering the interview questions that I'm asking of my guests, have you thought about coming on the
podcast and telling your story? Trust me when I say there is someone out there waiting to hear your specific story and your story will help so many others out there you have no idea. The impact that You can have on fellow adoptees and those in the constellation if you would like to get a hold of me, you can email me, at mind your own Karma
at gmail.com. If you want to know more about me and the podcast, you can go to my website, mind your own Karma.com. If you have been enjoying mind your own karma for a while, now please subscribe to the podcast. It really helps the algorithms and it helps get the word out about adoption. As always, take what you need and leave what you don't and always remember to mind your own Karma. I'll see you next time.
As always, take what you need and leave what you don't and always remember to mind your own Karma. I'll see you next time.