Hello, folks, this is Princess, you are listening to the millennial Mustard Seed, pod casts. Thanks for listening. Don't forget to share with your friends. Welcome back to the show, I got a great episode in store for you guys. I have a let go here from the intelligent design Collective.
It's a really unique conversation, aleko spent 10 years abroad teaching in Asia, and You're up, and it's kind of traveled all around and he's got a background in physics and Science. And this is the kind of episode where we really look at the physical world, the material world, and dive into the fabric of the universe, got good, blood
is me, right? So I'm looking at it, I'm hashing out and asking questions, like, where's the boundary between the tangible world and the spiritual realm, you know, I kind of pushed the bounds from my uneducated very curious. Active seeking to get a better understanding of how this science collected information of the modern days that we live in how that can depict the reality of the world. We live in in accordance with What God Says is designed, this is his creation.
Then I think it's really important that we slow down and we hear each other out. It's never been my idea to try to make you guys believe what. I believe the idea here is that you take this journey with me, we ask critical questions. And and we make critical individual choices about the information and plus you guys it's entertaining. All right. That's enough of me. Talking aleko a shares with us. A lot of information and near death and counter oh oh this is a good one.
You guys what a captivating conversation? Are you ready? Let's go. I'm I spoke to fire theft radio. I was in England and there was a train going by about every Or minutes. So I thankfully, I had a pretty decent microphone that was able to mostly omit that from the recording. But if you listen carefully, you might be able to hear it. I live in town house on a one-way in town. I got like Neighbors on. Like, every side of me, it gets
a little noisy. So I love the idea of a starting early on holiday today, because most people are probably sleeping in now. Are you still in Philadelphia or where are you now? I grew up in Montgomery County, which is like the suburbs of Philadelphia. Now, I actually live closer to the City of Reading Pennsylvania. So if you're familiar with Monopoly, the reading railroad am. Yeah, man, so that's actually interesting area. Yeah, it sounds like, it sounds really fascinating.
Well, your story sounds more. Fascinating to me, man, you just spent 10 years, abroad teaching, and you spent time in Vietnam. You just came from England, right? So, now you're back in the States. I am. Yes. Yeah, it's a little lengthier than that, but that's about, that's about it. Yeah. You're a teacher not anymore, not anymore. So I became a biology chemistry and physics teacher about 11 years ago. I taught IGCSE curriculum.
So that's British curriculum and I was also a teacher trainer so I taught pedagogical standards so we encouraged we more or less we taught teachers how to train or how to how to inculcate students. In a way that they would remember the material in a meaningful way.
So that included everything from Bloom's taxonomy, like higher order thinking skills, and what that is more or less is teaching something to learn it. So, for example, if you say, if you do a like a graduate level degree, you often write a dissertation, right? You're writing on a subject that you don't know much about or maybe you have, you know, sort of fleeting experience with right?
And the reason they Do that at The Graduate level is because Bloom's taxonomy is this this hierarchy of learning and at the very top of the hierarchy it more or less says teach something to learn it, right? It's you're getting. You're getting the students to explain something back to you or, you know, create an experiment or create a project in a way that they'll remember it years from now.
So, you know, if a student does, you know, a homework assignment or they're able to maybe just your teaching and their day, Daydreaming, they might even be able to, you know, regurgitate what you just said. Even if their mind is somewhere else, that's what they call, a low level thinking skill. But if you can get somebody to do a project or to do some type of report and actually teach you, they're going to remember
it in a more meaningful way. So we taught higher order thinking skills, we taught him constructivist classrooms getting students to work together. We more sort of a I won't say progressive, but I'll say modern style of teaching as opposed to the typical top down and I started in China. So I was in China for five years and, you know, I was, I guess you could call me maybe an agnostic, I was raised in a Greek, Orthodox household, but,
you know, we weren't really. We were Christmas Easter only Christians that as you had mentioned to me earlier, you said, you came from that background as well. I remember my father, Growing up, you kind of, I think this is quite common, I guess, maybe in Mediterranean households, but it was that he almost expected us to be bringing girls home or, you know, maybe be not so kind about it. And, you know, and you see say, kind of things.
That wouldn't be considered politically correct at all. Nowadays. Like, are you gay? You know, why aren't you, why aren't you bringing girls home? And so, there was this pressure almost to do things that were counterintuitive to what Christ has asked us to do and So yeah, so long story short I had worked in Las Vegas. My hometown up until I was about 25 and then I got married.
And my wife is from England, she's from little town, north of London and she suggested that we go on a trip to India and Thailand and I thought okay that could be a lot of fun. I've the only the only trips I've ever done were dead Hawaii and grease basically in Florida bunch I'm so I think so we we left and while we were in India, she said, hey look, I found I found this teaching jobs in China. Do you want to give it a try? And my background is
biochemistry. So I thought okay, that could be a lot of fun. Yeah, why not. So I began teaching really enjoyed it and we got hired on to international schools that were really. There was a sort of a medley of students, you had probably a large. A portion of them were Mainland Chinese, but you had German Japanese, Italian, you know, English students that were their learning, so it was all done in English. And yeah, it was good fun.
While we were there. Probably back in 20 2011, or 2012 2012. I was involved in a street fight where guy nearly hit my wife with his car and I got pretty aggressive with him. And you know I hit him but I found out very quickly that gibber. Watch the old. Jackie Chan movies or old, Bruce, Lee movies, any chance? Think that I'm like, what happened? So, so, okay.
Most I would say that I've encountered most folk in China and I've met quite a few, because we travel to roughly 35 cities in China while we were there.
I don't know that they would know Kung Fu per se, but there is an accurate thing about About those Jackie Chan movies, and that's it. If you start a fight with one person, you know, 20 of their friends will go and grab gardening tools and start beating up on the person who started the fight and it they don't play fair at all and we've seen that time and again just it get it escalates quickly.
Like you know two people will start shouting at each other one will shove and then you'll see guys drop out of nowhere with gardening tools and just start bludgeoning the person and it is brutal. So I hit the guy and while I was jabbing him down because he he wasn't going to fight me until his friends showed up. I felt a thud in my back and I had didn't know what it was but I turned around and I saw a guy holding a shovel essentially and I had a nightstick.
It was like a, telescoping sort of police night stick in my bag and I thought. Okay. All right. We're Into a fight. Now my wife and I were biking through near Wuhan China and I started to walk over to my bike, but I noticed it was hard to move. My left leg. And I thought maybe, you know, there was a gentleman going, so you're not really thinking that clearly, but as I went to back so to bend over to get my bag and get the night stick out.
I couldn't and I felt my back and I guess a hunk of my back came out and it was on my hand and I was bleeding and I noticed my shorts were completely wet. I was losing blood really quickly so my wife in jumps in between us and starts shouting at the guy and Out of nowhere. So I should give more context to say maybe except understand the significance of this China. Doesn't have Good Samaritan laws. So people will often get hurt in China. And we've seen this. Plenty of times.
People will often get hurt and nobody will help them. So you'll see like a seven-year-old girl, who may be, you know, got clipped by a car and she'll just be lying there. You'll just see people walking by her not doing anything because In China, if someone were to want to, they could point at someone and say that person is responsible and then that person would have to pay for their hospital bills. So oftentimes it would be only my wife and I go.
I'm coming to someone's Aid if we would see somebody getting hurt severely. Right. It's really crazy. There's a lot of stuff. We don't my wife and I don't talk about with regard to China because we're like nobody would ever believe this if we shared it but well yeah it just really insane. So I guess the significance is of it. Is this man just rolls up with this Is three-wheeled, farming, motorcycle and gestures me to get in.
And I found out later that my wife had prayed about it at the time because she was a, she was an incredible Christian. She is an incredible Christian. So yeah, he threw us in the back of the motorcycle and wheeled us off to the hospital. And I was, I was shaking and shivering.
So I was losing blood quickly and my heart was pounding and probably only a few minutes away from death, but When we got to the hospital, I found out that one of my students parents was one of the surgeons there and she immediately started helping us. She applied pressure, you know, she stitched me up and you know the CAT scan and yeah, it was really pretty pretty insane, you know.
I it was also there was a bit of humility added to it all because a lot of the teachers that worked under me, I was managing the school as well. A lot of the teachers that worked under me showed up before I got stitched up, they were Wheeling me through the hospital with my pants down because there was so much blood. They couldn't figure out where the wound was. So they just they just dropped my pants and I was just on this, you know, rolling better,
whatever it's called a gurney. And you know, basically my ass was being paraded to the entire hospital is, you know, just this really humbling thing. And all of my teachers are showing up and saying, hey, are you okay, what happened, what happened? And you know, I couldn't think of anything to say, but how do I look?
You know, but yeah, so yeah, long story short, the Press they stitched me up. They stabilized me put me in a hospital room and the you could see like loads of the press trying to get in, to talk to me to ask me questions. Because it was, I mean, it was a small Chinese City, but a small Chinese City, basically is, like, 5 million to 8 million
people. It was just outside of Wuhan and Hubei Province. So that's still pretty famous city I think for the last two years but so the Press was trying to get in but there was an armed. Communist police officer, that was standing at the door and very sort of ominously smoking a cigarette and watching me. So you know naturally I knew that I was going to be okay. I don't think any internal organs wouldn't were her.
Thank God, but I think the thing that was the most intimidating was I couldn't Really move that well and there was a guy there, you know, from a an authoritarian a representative from an authoritarian government, just ominously standing over me for what was the entire night?
He just stood there. So naturally I began praying and I said, God I could use your help here and I also said, you know, if you real can you can you give me some some clarity can, you know, help me to understand everything that you've done in light of my education and in light of what I've been taught and secular education.
So the next day without being told about my prayer, my mother-in-law sent me a couple of books on intelligent design and I think that one of I've learned over time that one of God's signatures is timing. So there's this beautiful little idiosyncrasy, you know, this These books to show up right on the tail end of my prayer right now. I thought. Okay, well, that's pretty cool.
One of them was Walt Browns in the beginning and I can't recall what the other was but I was just blown away by some of the stuff that I read while Brown is very credible. He was an engineer from MIT and he covered a whole range of topics in his book. I don't necessarily agree over time. I don't necessarily agree with all of the things that he said but I think he had some really fascinating things to say. So I went further, you know, it, we it was not easy to get books in China.
A lot of books are kind of band, they only really allowed Chinese books but you could you could buy some western books, it wasn't. So I just had to download PDFs essentially. And I downloaded at least Robles the case for Christ and a couple of others and I, yeah, decided to give my life to to Christ. So Within a couple of months I was in northern China in the military Capital Dalian and I
was baptized in a bathtub there. And yeah, so I guess the rest is, as you could say history after about six or seven years, I decided to become an apologist. I've just felt a written on my heart. I thought it might be ego at play. I thought, okay, well, I think I want to all I always want to become an apologist but you know, God could you make this clear that it's not just, you know, my own ego?
At play here. And that you actually want this of me. I said, this, this prayer in a park, you know, one night and I got back into my car after I said this prayer. And I remember turning on my car in the first thing I heard was this sermon, it was just the middle of a sermon and the speaker said, you should always be prepared to defend the gospel and It just felt so significant but I thought, you know what got that. Just could be it, you know, coincidence, I'm an idiot.
Could you maybe make this absolutely clear. So I went to bed that night after hearing, that pseudo confirmation. And the next morning, I woke up and my wife said, hey, I got a text message from your, your nephew and my nephew. Is This brilliant guy? He just graduated from Cambridge. He studied primatology and I said, oh, that's interesting. He's saying she said, well, he says you should become an apologist to their the new rock stars and I thought, okay?
Thank you. Thank you, God. So it was like this really on the head sort of confirmation that I should get into apologetic. So yeah, I started the intelligent design Collective podcast. We're more or less week, we cover a range of topics similar to you but it there's no not really any interviews. There's just you know some conversations going on. We we discussed intelligent design and we have a book club so we read a book from a
popular. Christian Author takes us months to go through the book because we sort of go through go through a chapter by chapter and really you know comb through it is as much as we can and yeah that's that's essentially it. So you know I continued my work in Vietnam and then yeah. Now I just left, Vietnam we left in January, we were in England for several months and then we just flew to Minnesota. I'm starting work at Cirrus Aircraft. So yeah, good fun. I knew you were the right guy to
have on the show, man. I'm like, I'm just captivated.
I was just listening to, you know, these bits and pieces of your journey, what happened to you and I know something about trauma physical trauma and how that can, Change our perspective on life and the existence of God and the timing thing, super super critical because you can't fake timing you know when Things fall into place in the things make sense it's just that's God's way of doing it. I really love everything you shared to this point man and it sounds like you know like you
need to write a book about your life experience, some Dame and like whenever you feel like you get to that point, just write a book. Funny people would be very interested in listening to the elongated version of the story.
It's awesome to find another. You know, another man in Christ is just not ashamed to use his gift because if I'm an elbow in your the knee neither one of us could say to each other, that there's no important because if the elbows function is to reach and grab a cup to give the body water, then it couldn't look down at the kneecap and say, hey man, you're worthless. Look what I can do because the knee Cap carries having crossed the room to get the cup. You know?
And that's why I love connecting with people as they share their diversity of gifts. And to be on a shamed about it, man. What an introduction, dude. It sounds like when you got in that fight over there, I like before you even said it, I'm just thinking of like the Jackie Chan movies or Jean-Claude Van Damme have you know, like just throw it down out Asian and most listeners.
Know my wife is from Southeast Asia and Love the culture, love the movies and thank God where she's from is pretty peaceful. They're the only Christian Nation while we're used to. So they have some morals there, but that's terrifying to hear about China and their society literally not having that Good Samaritan mentality. I think that that's one of the highest things. Either the Bible says, you shall know those who belong to me by the love.
They have for one another. Like the Good Samaritan is one of those staple things for me slowing down and helping our neighbor. If we're not doing that, and we profess to Believe In Christ, we might actually want to re-evaluate, what form of power are we walking in? Is it in love, or is it just in reputation? Or is it an anointing? Or is it? Sometimes people have a difference of telling what the difference between an anointing is where Talent Yeah, man.
So that that bothers me to know that. Obviously there's Nations all around the world and even our own Nation, here a lot go in the states. The Love is Growing cold. Clearly, as I feel like, we moved towards the end of the age, but for the general consensus to be in China that, hey, we're not even help this. This young girl, young guy, who whatever happened to him, because we're going to be responsible for their hospital
bill. Wow, that's I didn't really know that was the case over there in China, but doesn't surprise me with all the disconnect from truthful solid information from one country to another. These days I feel like a lot of the news companies and all these big organizations that control a lot of the information, they just Meander through and keep the confusion or the infatuation going with whatever is, you know, the new form of rock star ISM.
To Captivate the minds of people to keep them from actually diving into what the raw organic. Pilar things are that are going on in the world around us. Yeah, it really good point. Yeah. The absence of good man is what let starkness come in and be present and in Burke Ryan. I have no idea, really don't
know. Like, I mean, I've heard a lot of people talk on that stuff before, but like my heart throbs with this idea of, if I'm not a man in my neighborhood, what's going to keep the people from robbing my house, right?
If like, if we're not holding it down, if we're not being the light or the salt, if we're not flavor, during our work place in our household, from all the way back to the Greek poets, man, I'm a big fan of poetry are right boats for myself and you can see the glimmers of You know, people sharing this undeniable truth that I feel like there's this part of us as human where we have value, we want to be valued.
We want to be treated, well right, we're not just Stardust fizzling at Stardust. So like, you know, like we we've been wonderfully and fearfully created. So sometimes I'll say something or feel something earlier and probably heard it somewhere else before. But I'll truly believe what I'm saying. And somebody said, oh, is that, that's this person's quote and
I'll just put you have no idea. But I believe it for it Cedar, I'm just agreeing, you know, subconsciously with the idea that's relative to those of the sound mind. I don't know, man. But it's cool. It's there through cultural osmosis, he'll pick it all up. So I mean yeah it's a great quote, it's a great quote. Yeah, good points and the good points, you know, God's given you the ability to you know have this education in this.
This way of speaking listening to you has challenged even some things about the way that I think. And I've always Has been a fan of like for example like Chuck Missler and and here's the disconnect, the world thinks you're like a neanderthal. I like you know, some your foolish right? Your. Oh that's the old book. Campfire Story mentality and here we are with modern science and their bold enough.
They have the audacity to Proclaim all these things in the name of Stardust. It's like, dude, there's plenty of people with the gift now, not that all of us are right at all. Times 11 when it comes to a Chuck Missler has always said, but I'll tell you what, he's had me hanging off the edge of my chair and has challenged my Bible deeper, right? Like I think more men need to be doing.
I truly do diving into the word god using their gift exposing like hey, this is where we can see this connect in the tangible real world. So take us on like a trip into, you know, your science background, how did that? Kind of work its way out. Yeah, sure. Well I again I yeah studied biochemistry. I you know, I was raised in an orthodox Orthodox background but I think that's a secular education is going to naturally push people into finding a materialistic explanation for
the universe. And and it often goes that way because it says well you know, we don't see God per se so it would be Terrific to make that Proclamation.
But when you consider how God interacts with people in the scripture and in real life, you notice that there's there's a mark there that is, is replicatable but is impossible to write about in scientific journals because it's not something that can be really experienced in a group dynamic unless God wants it to be. So, for example, we were talking about The idiosyncrasy thing, right?
Or or God's timing, right? And often times when God's timing is, is the answer to the prayer, just something really significant happens but it's, you know, it's not that amazing, but it's just the timing of it all. It's not something you can really explain to somebody else. Even a Christian, you know, like it.
Say for example, you know, something need to happen in order for a prayer to be answered like a package and need to show up. Well, you could, you could say that, you know, you didn't think that package was going. Show up but it showed up, you know, and there was impossible circumstances because of it but people would just kind of raise an eyebrow and say well that's great and that's that's fine but what do you want me to do about, right? And how do you find God from that?
But that that to me, walks hand-in-hand with the account of the biblical God, a lot of what he does is personal and it's meant solely for you and I think that that's important because you know, if everyone were to be able to tether themselves to a person I'll experience that you had and then all of a sudden have their faith in riched. Well, that would be great but it would be a zero effort thing on their part.
Right? And so, they wouldn't really have to do the do the, the legwork, in order to, you know, create that relationship with the father as well, right? So, I think that the experience of God is a very personal one, although it can be a group thing, you know, that does happen from time to time in the scripture. And that's, that's something that really is not. You know, something you can put into a scientific journal.
Now, when it comes to intelligent design, you know, Missler, I recall listening to mr. I thought it was pretty interesting and he touches on some some very popular popular things in his talks. I think that he gives more of a campfire version of intelligent design but he does touch on one of the most important philosophical arguments in that was paley's. Watchmaker argument. Do you remember that one? Really. Okay? So being a British Theologian, William Paley.
He put this argument out there and it's been replicated in a number of different ways, but it's one of the most compelling philosophical argument and arguments and it tethers itself to the science, right? So science and philosophy. Often need to be Blended together in order to make assumptions about Grand unifying cosmology, right? That's essentially what metaphysics is or You know, cosmology, right? So there's a number of things we just don't know about with regard to deep space or the
creation of the universe. So we take the science that we can observe on Earth and we make a big assumption. A big philosophical assumption about the universe and that's where we get, you know, our pendants are paintings from. So William Paley once stated that if you came across a watch sitting in the sand at the beach, And you pondered its Origins while analyzing is, he picked up a Seiko, you know,
that you found in the sand. Right, your first assumption would likely not be that over millions of years and through chance. Processes Adams, spontaneously gathered through the lineage of random mutations and environmental adaptations, right? So you would also likely not assume that the watch had ancient ancestors, which formed self replicating cells that then bunched into more complex forms and Eventually, Advanced onto dividing in asexual, reproduction or rather
reproduction without to people. But one person writes, it was just one, watch reproducing, like a cell, right? Which is how they say humans started. You know, you know when we were once single-celled, organisms, we were dividing. And then eventually somehow spontaneously produced a completely compatible reproductive partner which is another thing all that's another, you know, Rabbit Hole together. But I'll maybe get into that later.
So you know if you are observing this watch, you would probably also find it hard to believe that it's, you know, reproduced sexually or it had maybe parents that you know produced to slightly less Advanced want, there's two slightly less Advanced watches that produced it a slightly more advanced watch which walks hand-in-hand with evolutionary theory, right? So without without question, many people would acknowledge
that a watch filled with cogs. Watch hands numbers in the steel casing and some some type of power source like a battery falling together by complete accident or natural, Randomness is absurd. So, what is fascinating, is that while some would view this is silly. I think most people would view that as silly as the human wrist that a watch would be resting on is exponentially more complicated than the watch itself. The watch is what you would call an open-loop system in
engineering. So in open loop, System has only a few controls or feedback items, integrated into its design. These are typically used to tweak activity variables, in order to promote the preferred efficiency of the item in the open-loop system. So with a watch, you've got a little crown or maybe a couple of buttons. You've got the ability to remove the battery or put the battery back in.
Another example, would be maybe a washing machine depending upon the quantity of garments or how dirty they were a user. Could adjust the rolls to a particular length of time and intensity in order to generate a desired output inside the washing machine. There are some simple machine parts, maybe even a basic computer, but most importantly, the washing machine needs repair and is not self-aware and it doesn't legitimately know if the clothes are clean or not.
Akin to, the watch, the watch doesn't know what time it is. It's just, you know, it's created to tell the time, The wrist that the watch would be resting on, however, is what you would call a hyper complex, closed loop engineering system, a closed loop system, is generally defined as a mechanical device, that has self-regulation over one or more variables in its operation processes. Mostly without control interaction or input.
So they vary from open loop systems because they typically have both Hardware or moving components and software, which controls and measures operations. To maintain desired output closed loop systems are very challenging to create and typically can be far from Flawless. So, one example of this would be a window near a thermostat, right? So that's a simple closed loop design during during the winter.
You know, if the window is open, you would cause the room to overheat because the thermostat was detecting that cold air was hitting it and the room was too cold. Right? So, in the case of the wrist, what is observed is a Closed loop system that can adapt to ambient conditions fight off potential. Invaders is largely self-maintaining and is controlled by software in this case, human consciousness.
So from an engineering perspective, the wrist is many orders of magnitude more complex than the watch and more baffling would be the notion of a, you know. So the wrist is it what we call a relatively simple, part of the body, you can think of an eye following together by Canary accident, even throughout millions of years, many biologists, make this claim about life. In general, will not even ruminating on the complexity of the eyes, or the brains, or the digestive systems that most
life-forms possess. So, as an attempted for oil in the 1700s philosopher, David Hume suggested that living systems only have the appearance of machines and also said that, you know, unless it can be proven that living systems are machines at the molecular level, that the watchmaker argument is Irrelevant Darwin. Himself said that if it could be proved that at the microscopic level cells are complex.
His entire Theory would be up Ended as well, and lo and behold the electron microscope was invented and might modern microbiology demonstrated that even the simplest organisms are complex machines beyond our imaginations as so Michael Denton, a British Australian biochemist noted that although the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small.
All each is in effect, a super miniaturized Factory, containing thousands of exquisitely, designed pieces of intricate molecular Machinery, made up of 100 billion atoms, far more complicated than any machine ever built by man.
And absolutely, without parallel in the Machine World there's another quote that I like from astrophysicists drained F Louis and Luke a Barnes And they Defined Life as a miracle of complexity in every single cell and they Also, noted that cells have machinery for moving themselves, tagging, and transporting other molecules processing food defending against Invaders DNA, replication and repair creating proteins, as well as receiving and sending outside messages
cells. Can also duplicate themselves in a very short amount of time and they finally noted that computers created by humans are good, but they don't even come close to this. So what's significant about this is Biologists are often the only ones who tend to make this claim about about life that it just gradually gets more advanced. But in fact, we don't see this in any data because it violates, what we call the month laws of physics, right?
So the, the violates entropy and thermodynamic equilibrium constant and entropy more or less suggests that Things Decay over time unless there's some type of intelligent input. So for example, you know, you have a baby that's produced which is this hyper complex thing with, you know, Consciousness and it's essentially a perfect machine that will last for 80 to 100 years, depending on, you know,
environmental factors. But the only reason it exists or was produced was because two intelligent beings put it together, right? But when you To you don't have some type of intelligent input, entropy takes hold of things in case in point would be the Earth. Or, you know, something decaying falling apart, you know, take, for example, here's a clumsy analogy, but, you know, I think Missler use this one. You know, your room over time,
it's going to just become ugly. If you're not constantly fixing it, organizing it putting it back in order because that is essentially what entropy is things Decay and sort of fall apart over time. If there's not some type of intelligent input and thermodynamic equilibrium constant states that all matter, Trends toward spreading evenly, right? So it's the reason why you don't, you know, all the air in your room, doesn't Bunch up in one corner and suffocate you, right?
Because matter Trends towards spreading evenly. So a planet forming or life self-forming against these two laws entropy, which means everything is decaying or thermodynamic equilibrium. Which says that everything spreads evenly means that there has to be some type of intelligent input. You have physicists. Like this is very long-winded. So stop if I'm going too far. But well yeah, physicists are people like Brian Cox or Brian Greene. We were two very famous
physicists. And I actually enjoy their books state that you might have had things like pockets of entropy are pockets of dis entropy, right? So times when he slowed down and all of a sudden, you know, a single cell could form, but the simple fact of the matter is, we've never witnessed that and there's no reason we would ever have. There's nothing that we've seen in nature and or observable science. That would lead us to believe that.
All we know is that the universe is in a state of decay, and we have these hyper complex things in the form of life, statistics analysis, sorry, statistics analysts, say that. The odds of something becoming unlikely are typically around 1 in 1,000, right? So, the odds of Life appearing from nowhere are, you know, exponentially greater than that?
So, I think it was a dr. Stephen C, Meyer of Cambridge, who said that the odds of forming a functional cell through absolute chaos and entropy from a proposed, amino acid Rich primordial pool, which is what some people suggest is you know. What cause life on Earth is more than one chance in a hundred thousand trillion trillion trillion. We see how I mean look at my notes here and me. See if okay a hundred thousand trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion trillion
trillion trillion trillion. How many zeros is it until it's considered absurd. It's ya know, I'm tracking with what you're saying and this is really good because a lot of the times culture will train us to see only through the perspective that Of value to that organization that school or that consumer system, right? Let's look at what other people said. Let's look at the physics. The structure of this world around us, and try to make sense of it. My biblical filter will
register. Hey, this verse may very well, have been in regards to the unknown information. Christ, says I hold all things together, well, it's not until modern day, that we'd learn about laminate in this cell adhesion protein. Molecule that's shaped naturally in the shape of a cross looks like a rebar the human body.
When you're saying this stuff, man, it's really developing this deeper hunger and excitement within me because I feel like we're systematically undoing the tainting of, you know, the world's agenda to remove Christ from the Forefront of our mind.
He says, all things were created through him for him and by him and I think there's nothing wrong with taking this scientific style Oprah. It's to just looking at the world around us and then also bathing into the scriptures and like a Berean looking for, for where they connect. Where do you think? Science does draw the line between what's natural to Supernatural. You see a like sacred divided in between the two categories of where they're like, no, that's too far.
We don't even go there. Yeah, it's a good question. I think that it's a bit subjective in terms of what my answer might be but I think it's pretty obvious to the public that The scientific process is actually a, it's actually a beautiful process when you think about it and, you know, the way we discern things, but scientists themselves don't need to be objective and that's proved time and time again in terms of what we see in terms of the actions of science.
No matter what, what camp you fall in with regard to, and this is a bit of a touchy subject but the covid-19 camp now, what no matter what can't be fall into, you see that there's a complete
lack of objectivity. With with scientists and this is kind of a roundabout way of answering your question, but scientists will do. Whatever it takes to promulgate their own success, whatever that might that might look like for them, you know, maybe it fiscal success or or you know maybe notoriety popularity and I do believe that there are many scientists even secular ones out there that are out for the greater good. They're genuinely curious.
But oftentimes you see flighty claims being made or maybe even slightly. Ones that are based on the Kernel of truth, that will increase their chances of funding, that will increase their chances of of notoriety. In one, one thing comes to mind would be, for example, I've got to recall the names of the planet. So they think it was Kepler-186f and Trappist 1D. They constantly go on about these two planets in their different. Current system altogether, right? And using Doppler effect,
they're able to determine that. These planets are in the Goldilocks zone and that means it's the perfect distance from there. Start to Harbor life, right? Not too hot, not too cold, the right size using using Doppler effect, right? So it's a, it's a very sketchy way to try to determine where these planets are to begin with, right? So because you have things like gravitational lensing which distorts our field of view.
You have a variable speed of light Theory, which suggests that the speed of light is not constant. It can change from time to time and then you have, you know, human instrument limitations. We're using, you know, pretty primitive stuff to to make very big claims about about these planets in. There's a lot of chance that it could be slightly inaccurate if not mostly inaccurate though.
I like this type of talk. I think it's very interesting, they're the scientists are more or less saying You know what? These are these kids, these could have life. So, you know, I'll propose things like this to, to my students and say, well, you know why, why would scientists constantly go on about this? Why would they reported to the media and the students, you know, oftentimes, you know,
we'll get the answer right? You know, they have a more simplified way of looking at things but, you know, the same well, money, right. You know, the essentially means funding for them and that's exactly the truth, you know, even if it's not to line their own pockets and they just want to, you know, no, let's just say they have a very magnanimous perspective and they just want to grow their program. Making a crazy claim is going to bring attention to your program.
It's going to gain the attention of investors. This is again this is a very roundabout way of answering but I suppose providing context is really important. I think that you know, the line can be shifted wherever it needs to be shifted as long as as long as it will bring attention to a
program. It won't stomp on that you know, scientist in Work. You know, there's a lot of scientists who have done done work and that has been upended by recent discoveries that will defend their work to the Grave only because it dis, you know, the, the new discovery kind of discredits what they've done. Right.
There's a lot of scientists that have completely made things up because of, because of the attention of brings one, one that comes to mind that still in textbooks today is Okay, Ernst heichal about 100 and I want to say, 110 years ago, 120 years ago, you have to look this up. I don't recall the day. He falsified sketches of embryos and what he did was he drew gill slits into embryos of different animals.
He had humans, you know, annum variety of animals and he essentially, you know, indicated, these were gills. And what the implication was was that, well, you know, in the womb All animals, go through, they version of The evolutionary process. So you can see that we were all fish at one point, but the simple fact of the matter is that the they're not gills at all. They have nothing to do with the respiratory system, they're just these ridges that are analogous structures.
And the yeah, they don't, they don't point to us being fish or any animals being fish out of an fish in the slightest. So but the thing is you know, I have recent textbooks from Um, Cambridge have some textbooks from the US that I've taught out of that still indicate this to this day. And I guess it's an example of authoritative parenting where, you know, people hear somebody who they think is important
saying something. And they just pair it it they just repeat what they said because they don't you know, really want to look into it. They're just kind of they've got their own worries, right? So I guess the point I'm trying to make is as long as it doesn't stomp on the scientists, the
scientists and questions work. And as long as they think that they can generate interest, I don't think that the line is stratified, you know, it can move wherever they needed to move in and you see that today with with things like you APS where that was our UFOs or whatever that we're that was kind of a taboo subject, maybe two decades ago, or even five
years ago. But there's a lot of information being released about them and now all of a sudden, you have people like is some of my favorite authors, like Mitchell. Kaku and, you know, I don't I can't see anyone else but you know, off the bat you know, Michio Kaku. I remember he came on a couple of podcasts recently. He's been on the news. He's discussed You know, the very notion of UFOs, something that would have maybe gotten you laughed out of some serious circles, perhaps a few years
ago. So it aligned can move wherever it needs to move. There's you know if it can be wherever it needs to be as very roundabout way. It's hurting your question. So no, I know I think you actually got to the root of the issue of the question being that the context is so important because Being aware of the fact that they move the line in accordance with their agenda, helps us to then not be so easily, LED astray by whatever the information that's floating around today, right?
Like the premises of the show, like in my notes for the podcast is listen, there's a million messages in a million signals that are causing confusion and Chaos. Let's take this journey together and you know, discovering this ultimate truth, right? Like what do we believe is true?
So to see how they just like me Manipulate where the line falls from the natural world, to what some consider to be the supernatural World. They Bend IN manipulate that depending on what their agenda is or what's relevant at the time. I think you kind of giving the context and sharing that perspective actually was much
more respectable my opinion. You know, I've heard I think it was dr. Chuck Missler talk about take a piece of string and you cut that piece of string in half and you would imagine you could just keep cutting that other half. In half, right? And you just keep doing that forever. But you eventually get to this this part where it loses a property called locality. It's like that little piece of string.
Now, just becomes everywhere, once it's it falls into like the classification of plasma the Bible's always said, we are the shadow of a larger reality I believe I have this biblical filter my aspirations. Clearly outweigh of my
education. I let everybody know that like you know think crazy at times and say things it's not always exactly like coming from, you know, the campus certainty but maybe philosophizing a little bit at times hearing that kind of information from Chuck Missler when you're a little kid, you believe you already have this like mindset where you would already believe. If somebody said hey Bird flu by up there, right? Or like an angel, or God's real.
Whatever like you would be easy and belief and I'm not talking about being gullible, the world would like, oh, you're just depicting a childlike mentality and an adult who would just believe anything and you guys are the very reason why things are wrong. No, no, honestly, look at the placebo effect. But there's power and belief, like even if you believe in something that would be contrary to would the, I believe in there still powering.
So there's this, like, Realm behind the realm that like, I've always felt sensitive to electrical. And for me, personally, I think the supernatural world is going to be that timing that power that almost undisputable personal experiences that happen intermittently over the course of the experiencers life that reveal the realm Within ROM, my Kaiser wrote, the biblical narrative has this thread all the way through it of this Angelic world.
You know, this, this other realm God being spirit and inhabiting Eternity. But yet we're operating in this physical temporary world. I know it sounds like I'm jumping around a lot, not as my time. This realm between the realm. If you have a computer, it's just some materials plastic and polymers, or whatever goal, you know, whatever you make a computer, you could upload. 500.
Gigabytes of information in computer, you put it on a scale, it still weighs exactly the same, you know, nothing changes. It weighs the same without the information uploaded to the computer as if it would if it was completely blank and empty hard drive with with no information on it, I like in that kind of thought process to like that realm behind this Isabel realm, the word of God being, you know, sharper than a double-edged sword, man. It separates it teaches us to
speak life. This old papaya, this Bible book that has transformed the hearts of men and women. But thousands of years that to me is like the evidence of the behind-the-scenes realm, you know, the supernatural document that doesn't abide by the laws of physics biology or science in general, something's happening that we can't quite get a grasp or and the guy next door, the lady down the street news. This, how does science in general deal with the
supernatural? Look at like Albert Einstein was spooky action at a distance, you know, any of these like, great influencers throughout history. And they're always hinting at this strange world that we can't get under the microscope, I don't know. Sorry for going on such a long Grant there, but I know it's great, it's great.
Yeah, yeah, I just see like the cultural and the cultures of the world, the education system religion, this consumerism and Howdy the violence entertainment, the individual traumas as well, as you know, the large-scale traumas. You know, just look at 20:20 and the pandemic, what?
That's done to people mentally and I see all of that in a unique way to an extent, all of it has, my opinion been manipulated, and used the lines have been changed and moved around in order to keep people from really being able to connect, you know, keep people from being cordial with each other. Like, and having A good honest discussion. Even if we disagree still being respectable enough to share information, like what are we going to do with frequency the human body?
The super complex machine, we can put off a frequency of Love or fear, whatever it may be. You know, all these natural organic materials, do put off a frequency, what world does that operate in? Is that on the cusp of the supernatural side of things, you know, anything on that. No, you know, that's that's probably out of my field of
study. But yeah, it's a comment on some of the things that you said and I do have some thoughts on on your question, but new to comment on some of the things that you said, I think you brought up some really interesting points. You talked about splitting the line and cutting the line and how it you know people at one point thought that you could divide matter down infinitely because it was the primary building block of existence but they're the measurement, you talk.
Thing about is planck length and it's a 10 to the minus 30 fifth, that, at a certain point, matter loses a locality, right? And that, if you combine that with the idea of atoms, like, for example, it's helium. You the distance between the nucleus and the electron, if you were to blow it up, is about the
size of a football field. So I'm sorry if you were to proportionately, make the the The atom bigger, the distance between the middle of the atom and the outside of the atom is the distance of a football field at a certain size, right? So what the implication is that atoms are mostly empty space and what's the reason why you have things that feel solid, the reason why you can't pass your hand through your desk is because of the electromagnetic force.
So, a reductionist perspective of That is that everything that you see in everything that you touch is light.
It's electromagnetism, it's, it's almost a thought and, you know, that that kind of walks hand-in-hand with simulation Theory. But when you consider the notion of ndes or near-death experiences, I think one of the most fascinating things that I read about sorry I speak about this as if you know about it I'm assuming you do because it's in the Zeitgeist but you have these people that, you know, have had Very significant and almost provable some in some cases,
very provable near-death experiences where they have a vision of heaven. And one of the recurring motifs of those experiences is that people say that the the realm of Heaven is more real than what they experience on Earth. Earth feels like the fuzzy sort of hazy realm as Heaven is often depicted in TV shows as fuzzy hazy place with clouds and you know, people have wings and all that stuff. But they say that going back to Earth.
Earth feels like the place. That's not real and Heaven feels like a place that they've been gone from. You know it feels like they've gone back home. So I find that really fascinating, you know, this this notion of a simulated world. And I think one of the most, this is a bit Fringe. This is a bit perhaps even esoteric, and and clumsy as well.
But I think one analogy that our book club stumbled on for the Relationship of God, the father and God the son, you know, Christ, obviously, and his interaction with the world is something that humans have stumbled on through technology. And that's, that's the video game analogy that God. The father is the person in control of the, I guess the character and Christ is the character in the video game and we're sort of the NPC's. But that again, that's a bit a
bit silly. Obviously we're not NPC's. We have Consciousness. We have thought we have, we have will. Yeah. But That said, you know, something that humans have sort of stumbled on that, you know, God is the creator.
He's, you know, in control of every atom, as we know through the cosmological proof for God. And that the Video Game World is this place where, you know, he or the in the simulation will displace where he interacts with us and he's able to speak to us through his son Christ, you know? So again that's clumsy and you could pick all kinds of holes in it. There. There are issues with that but I really like that analogy as it was brought up a few months ago in her book club.
Yeah, you mentioned the notion of children, understanding and believing things. And I wrote that note as you were saying that it was Alison gopnik from UC Berkeley, which is a very liberal institution and she herself is an atheist and she tries to promote atheism, but she had determined in a study of young children. And I don't know what the sample
size was here. That children as young as five I've even children brought up an atheist households invoke a god-like designer in order to explain the world around them. So it's naturally built into children to see a Creator in the world. It has to be I wouldn't say pulled out of them, but it has to be blocked or covered with, you know, liberal sort of materialist inculcation in order to stop that or stymie. That that that progression.
But, you know, you know, with regard to, and I'm jumping from place to place too. And maybe just trying to comment on what you said. I think you had some really interesting points when it comes to technology. I think it's really fascinating and I am learning the Bible more and more as I go along. So I'm by no means a Biblical scholar but it's one of the most fascinating Journeys.
I've been going on recently, but it brings to mind that, you know, the notion of the Unholy Trinity as some people call it and you know, from from Revelation you have sort of the Counterpoint to the real Holy Trinity which would be I guess a devil I suppose or Satan as you know, being that version of the father then you have the you know obviously the two Take Christ figures in Revelation, which could be, I guess some bastardization of the Sun and some people have.
And this is reading a narrative into the Bible. This isn't necessarily provable, but I thought it was kind of interesting. I heard this perspective recently that the media is a version of the Unholy spirit.
It's a way of producing information quickly that's false and sort of controlling the minds of the world and I didn't take it lightly even though you know it's something I would want to look into and And I don't know if it's completely biblically sound, I didn't take it lightly because I thought that's really fascinating when you think about it because the name of the devil in Greek Viva Las. The literal translation is to be of two minds, right?
Via Volos. But the colloquial translation of devil is the slanderer, right? So, to take the truth in skew, it slightly and you have a lot of half. I think more than just direct evil in the media. Yeah the internet or On TV more than direct evil. You have a lot of half-truths, you have a lot of half-truths being presented where people are like, okay well that's true but that's not but I'll still roll with it to see where this goes in, you know, entertainment or
even in the news, right. I think that's really interesting that there's it's almost the media in very very many ways has the same modus operandi as the devil. You know, just slightly misleading things that cause people to rescue their abs. Yeah, it was a bit of a word salad. With all the different messages that are going out, causing a lot of confusion and Chaos.
People do listen to podcast. Now, not saying that they take anything that I produce or other people produce as ultimate truth, but there's nothing wrong with tossing, these ideas around and sharpening up on different perspectives. Personally. I like to go to the Bible then and white God in and just say, Lord, give me the wisdom to know what I need to know for, for your purposes. For me, calls me to be a Berean in this, Help me to not lose
that. Love for my household for my family, for my neighbors, help me to be the essence of the very thing that I desired when I invited you in. And I repented in my heart and to kind of tie it back to the
beginning here, quick. When you're talking about what happened to you over there, you know, outside of Wuhan in China, when you got attacked for all those listeners that may have experienced that, or know, someone close to them, who has had a near-death experience, a lot of work, Lionel echo or talking about is going to become a natural interest.
If you're an experienced or to the extent of you've been shaken and woken up out of the reality of consumerism and what my favorite sports team is, or my favorite shoes, or what? My dream car is elected, that world comes crashing down at any point in time through our temporary existence as strangers that are passing through on this Earth and there's some ups and some Downs, there's some highs and some lows, we We all know that each one of us has a story that at times can be beautiful,
ugly, good. If you've ever come to the point where you've almost lost everything, I'm talking about, literally you're about to separate from your physical body and enter into this unknown world that every religion and culture is philosophized about since the beginning of time as ground shattering to the point where If you're not interested in who God really is what's really going on around you. You didn't really have the experience.
I know that's a bold claim but If it all comes crashing down, man, and you survived your going to want to know what happened. If you didn't, you know her, why did it come crashing down? So it for me, aleko talking with you and diving into these topics is literally what helps what helps me be able to sleep at
night. You know, I have so many questions and thoughts and I love reading the Bible and I'm a Watchman on the wall in my own opinion, looking at the world around me and just talking with God and saying, Lord, protect me from this Lord, what do I need to know about that? Not Insinuating that I always get the right response from him because I still Sheriff Russell was saying, no, I won't sit here and say that, you know, I have no sin, I see it as being critical to encourage the listeners.
The body of Christ out there, don't be afraid of The Fringe topics, the Bible's not going to disappear. If we ask weird questions about it, we're not going to get scolded by God. If we talk about science or the world around us, whether it be megalithic structures or energies. Frequencies be careful of new ageism you guys. Guys, stay steer clear of anything like the Bible says, test all Spirits, right? If they confessed Christ is who he says, he is.
If the Messiah the Lamb of God Has Come In the Flesh, and he has risen again, that is from God. Now, we all are in a state of coming to Perfection. If we believe in Christ, he's working this out in us. Let go. I've listened to just enough your episodes. Since discovering you that I know you're going to continue to help me in an area that I don't know where to go. Some of Information. There's so many signals out there that sometimes you just know deep down in. This is somebody.
I feel a level of comfort listening to allowing to challenge the way that I think about it. As long as my response is to always dig back into the word and to pray in our secret place. About a lot of these topics that come up. So I hope to have you back for part two. I feel like so many more questions, but I know we both got the day ahead of us. We're celebrating July 4th today.
Oh yeah, yeah, fill in anything that He feels necessary as we kind of wind down here and then share with the audience where they can find you books, your content websites. Definitely. Yeah, well, I mean, it's comment on some of the things that you said I think you brought up some some really great points and and I think that as you mentioned you seeking Christ. Prayerfully is the most
important thing. I think Missler, even once said if If a momentary exposure to this, this material doesn't lead you into an obsession. Then I would argue that you're not paying attention or you didn't have the experience, right? So it just kind of walks hand-in-hand with what you said and I think he also, you know, he suggested, you know, people keep a journal of things that confuse them. So if you know something you come across something that's just really esoteric.
But you know what happened and you're perplexed by it, write it down and pray about And in some way some, you know, some crazy happening, you know, be it, you know, friend that comes and talks to you or something you hear on the radio. When you're switching channels, God will answer the prayer. If you have a question, you won't always give you the answer you want, but he will tell you what you need to know.
So I think that to yeah people want to come and and listen it is, it's the intelligent design Collective pain. Cast. We're trying to switch over to IDC because it's a big mouthful. IDC podcast. You can. Yeah, you can you can find us at that podcast. I also have a book on Google play, audiobooks and on Audible. It's the pillars of intelligent
design. To be honest with you, I just haven't had the time to promote it yet, but you know, a lot of people have listened to it for free on episode 137 of our podcasts. You can just go there and listen to it for free, but yeah, we'd be happy to have more people to join our book club as well, which is about a third of our podcast. So we, yeah, we spend about 90 minutes, it used to be every week but now we're going to be doing it every other week and we just get together and we talk
about a couple of chapters. So we've covered a lot of books. So far, we started with Michael as heiser's the Unseen realm. You brought up eyes earlier. I thought was pretty interesting and we done done quite a few. You. But we normally, you know, a lot of book clubs the format, is you read the book and then you come, give your, your thoughts on it. But, you know, myself being a teacher, I knew people would
skip chapters. So I thought, okay, we'll just go, we'll go chapter by chapter that way. It's also, you know, you don't feel overwhelmed by it and just come and give your thoughts. But yeah, we done Heiser. We've done five proofs of the existence of God by Edward phaser. We've done Craig as keener's Miracles, which Which was a paradigm shifting book. For one of our members, we have this gentleman who's in our club
who was a mountie. So he was a former police officer from Canada and he was a good guy, but he was mildly skeptical when he started the book club, but he stuck with it and when we read Miracles and so real quick story, I'm getting chills as I'm sharing it. But he adopted a baby in Vietnam. And evidently I didn't know they say if you leave a baby lying in one position Position for too
long. The head can become misshapen because they has a very soft skull so you have to turn the baby from time to time just to make sure that doesn't happen. So when they receive the baby that they adopted the head was severely misshapen because of it was left in the crib for for too long and evidently it takes eat like it could take up to a year, maybe even longer with some type of brace that's very painful for the child to correct the head to make it symmetrical, right?
In the middle of reading craic as keener's Miracles, what they did was they took before and after pictures, the before picture was taken and then they laid their hands on the baby and prayed over it and the name of Christ and they woke up the next morning. The baby's head was symmetrical and ever since then, he's been obsessed, you know. So he's been absolutely obsessed. He's all all hands on deck and I'm getting chills just as I share this with you because Because, yeah, it's for real.
The whole thing, the whole business is, you know, we can, we can ask elasticized it and turn into a cerebral Pursuit, but nothing is more important than The Knowing Christ bro, that's my greatest. Hope is that people listen to the podcast. They read the Bible, they start to believe, take it serious, or ask questions and find themselves in a unique scenario where God becomes real to them.
So hearing that man from you brother that's like that might be the whole reason we did this show today. Somebody hears and that keeps the whole thing going to Beauty unfolding. So pleasure idea talking about Christ and meeting someone who shares the love news. It was very edifying for me, so I was glad to be here.
Well, that's it, that's the show everybody, if you found this episode to be helpful and encouraging, you learn something new, it challenged you to think deeper about the world around you the days that we live in or Ancient Bible book that I hold so dear to my heart, I ask you to share this episode with a friend, a family member, A co-worker coming to you from Southeastern Pennsylvania. God Bless America.
Listen what I'm saying Guys. These topics right here, they're covering the chasm of lost information and giving us an ability to connect some dots. As we take this ride together and just interview different people from different backgrounds, and gather information. I'm not asking you guys to believe everything that you hear on these episodes. I literally the information is there for you guys, to choose what you decide to do with it.
For me personally, I don't believe every single thing I hear. Hi. Like to pray about it to study looking into these topics and really like let that time and the process happened for these things to kind of like resonate and settle with me, because I don't like to be just easily led into, you know, some radical
belief really. I mean, at the end of the day, I do have to gauge and evaluate and check the way that I process my information to make sure it's healthy and in accordance with, you know, of the Orion. Mentality. Because I believe, personally, for myself and the Watchman on the wall. I have a Berean mentality, which means I like to study daily with the Readiness of mind, and find within the word of God. What what's tolerable or not?
Testing all things and and being ready in season and out of season flying under the radar of the information that literally is in the background. The most people came here because there's so many other signals and messages that are just so much louder and it is So important that we have a plethora of information to spread out. So that's the idea of the show. Like I said, you listen this far. You're awesome. You're the reason you guys are the reason. Let's keep this thing going.