¶ Intro / Opening
Will you wait, miss?
Welcome back to midnight Viewing. I'm your host. Father Alone and with Us is a returning guest, our first returning guest. Are you honored? Of course? I had, Well, you should be. You're one of the few humans I can tolerate. Back with Us is the host of A Year in Horror podcast. When last he graced our airwaves with his molifluous tones, I declared A Year in Horror the best movie podcast out there. Since then, I've had a chance to sample a great number of other shows. Turns out I'm correct.
Welcome back, mister Paul Waller.
Love it again. I love your voice is the voice of America.
Oh if only need some reason these days. That's right. Tonight we're gonna be knock knock knocking for sweet surprise. We're gonna be talking about Trick or Treat Baby. This is Trick or Treat from nineteen eighty six, not to be confused with nineteen eighty two's Trick or Treats or twenty nineteen's Trick or treat Or or two thousand and seven's trick Er Treat? Which is your favorite of bout love? If this if the film that we're currently discussing is
in the mix this one. I have to agree. I think trick Er Treat has a lot of fans because it's the first time they understood that an anthology could hang together from story to story. It doesn't matter to them that those stories are all borring and terrible. But if you're gonna say trick or treat, it's this trick or treat for me. Now, this is a let me just quickly lay out the plot for it, and then we're going to back up because we've got to talk
to you specifically, mister metal, all right, Trigger Treat. It tells the tale of Eddie Weinbauer. He is a bullied high school metal head whose only solace is the music of Sammy Kerr. He's got style, got no soul, got everything that a man would want from rock and roll. When Sammy Kerr is killed in a hotel fire, Eddie becomes the recipient of the only assate of Sammy's final song if you play it backwards, good Golly Masmally, there's
gonna be trouble. Letcher's demons and haunt, haunted drill presses, and a large marge back from the dead. Oh No, She's dead again. Now, this is a heavy metal movie to me. This is one of the heavy metal movies came out in nineteen eighty six. Now, I contend that this disposed of a little horror flick which was lost amidst the sea of slasher films in the mid nineteen eighties, is actually a very important horror film in its depiction of heavy metal fans. Usually you get one of two
flavors in film. You get the agro villain there are too many of those to name, or the agro ally. You can check out some kind of wonderful for Elias Koteis's portrayal of Duncan the metal head ally in that one, or more recently Joe Quinn on Stranger Things far more rare is the one on display hair. This is the outcast and the loser metal head, the bullied metal head.
¶ The Impact of Heavy Metal
I've seen all three throughout my life. Which one were you? And as a follow up, why do you think that striper is the platonic ideal of a heavy metal band? Wow?
You can't mention the striper off? Come on, I was. I was sort of none of them until I got pulled in by the headmaster at my school and was told to cut my hair, and I did a really stupid thing. I was so cross and I was so rebellious that I thought, all right, I'll do that. So what I did was I left it long, but I shaved because Metallica. It was this was eighty eight or something. Metallica had just done and Justice for All and Jason had shaved the side of his head. So I went, right,
I'm going to do that. And I shaved the side of my head and went back and said, I've had my haircut. Little did I know that you're meant to put scream and stuff on your head to make sure it doesn't blister.
And all that.
So what I had was gaping wounds, dripping blood, pass all that sort of thing.
I was disgusting. You were fucking metal, is what you were. That's right. Take this plus how do you like that? For a fucking upgrade.
He didn't drag me in in his office any longer. But yeah, I was sort of got on with the popular kids, but I was far more into Like, there was two metal heads in my school and me, and one of them didn't like me.
One of them went to shows with me, and that was everything for me. Got Igro and an ally on your side. That's why.
Yeah, the kid that didn't like me was a younger kid, and I guess he was a bit frightened, but he was the one that introduced me to this film via its soundtrack. We would trade and he gave me a fast Way tape with this album on it, and yeah, I blew my mind.
Now, I grew up in a kind of an insular neighborhood and it was overflowing with children, and they were all older than me, mainly teenagers. So I got kind of an advanced study in popular culture. So by seventy eight seventy nine, I was seven or eight years old, and most of the people that I looked up to, the cool kids, they were listening to a CDC Aerosmith, Black Sabbath and Judas Priest and my personal favorite, just on a visual level, Iron Maiden. To me, that's the
bedrock of heavy metal. Heavy metal since then has branched off crazily, pingponging in every direction. There are so many subcategories these days, I can't keep up. Because here's the thing. My knowledge of heavy metal pretty much extends to Black Sabbath. I listened to Metallica and everybody else, but very rarely. I exist in a pre Return of the Living Dead soundtrack and a post Return of the Living Dead soundtrack. As soon as I heard that punk was it and metal was out for me.
I got into punk a little bit later. It was thanks to like Kirk Kbain. Really, so I was lost after thrash metal burnt out in the nineties, like really early nineties, maybe ninety one at the very latest, and I was just looking. So I started going to gigs and I was more into the indie rock stuff, so bands like the Breeders and Big Black and things like that.
So I was listening to all this weird stuff and then Kurt Cobain hit me like a ton of bricks and it was the first time, as a sixteen seventeen year old whatever I was that it was like a god for me and it opened up not just I think he published like ninety two or ninety three his top one hundred albums or something like that, and it was just that was it for me. I could pick them off, right, I've never heard of this. Who's Daniel Johnston? Like, oh you likes that sonic you for one?
You know?
And it was just like an incredible eye opening thing for me. You know, I discovered punk thanks to him.
So when do you get metals? Metals so early? Don't know what it was? Okay, great, Yeah it was.
I was into Kiss in nineteen eighty I was a little boy and they came over to Australia and that's where I was living, and it was like the Beatles. If you see the footage, it's crazy. I've seen the footage. It's clear, it's insane. And as a little kid, I had Gene Simmons on my wall. You could pull his tongue.
And his arms and goal really like that was.
Brilliant and you know, and that was me and I still have now Kiss tatoos and whatnot. I love Kiss still. But it sprouted not too far into things like fast Away, so I.
Would I would drift off a bit mainly.
The only other thing I got into was thrash, so it was just all that rock I discovered, Like you Maiden, I got into Motley Crue. I thought they were the eveless thing. With that Shout of the Devil album that came out, I just thought, oh God, am I going to go to hell? You know, as a kid, you don't know any concepts apart from like what on your record, and they looked evil.
I remember the video for Okay, It's the kung Fu one Too Young to fall in Love, and that to me gave me the same feeling that you just described. Oh there's something especially dark about this particular band.
Yeah, Like because you know, I would consider myself English. They made them were everywhere, like you couldn't if you were into metal. Every magazine so they could sell it would have Maiden on the front cover, and it was one of those things that they were the top dog, everyone was underneath, and that was it growing up here.
That's funny. Maiden were as niche as could be here in America's and I know they were selling out like stadiums and stuff, but it wasn't like on the radio necessarily or on the covers of popular magazines. In fact, I remember having to trek into Boston to like a niche kind of record shop to get whatever the latest poster or T shirt of Eddie was going to be. Speaking of which we're gonna get to this movie in a secondent, because we're talking Maiden, not album, not song,
album cover. What is your favorite album cover for Iron Maiden. It's got to be Number of the Beast. It's got to be.
Like my first day of buying actual albums, like with my own money, was there was two and I got Number of the Beast and I've got Motorheads or Gasmotron and they were both in the cheap bin. So again I was a little bit older, but I would look at them two covers and I would just put them as I would go to bed at night. I would put them against my wall and just look at them and just think, oh god, this is insane. The music was all too heavy for me at that time, like
it was just but I didn't care. It was just those covers like Eddie holding the Demon, who's holding a little it?
Oh, come on, come on, Number of the Best. I'm a big fan of Aces High now that yeah, I mean, everyone of them is fucking gorgeous.
I'm trying to get Derek Riggs on my show, like just to talk to him about horror, because I know that he loves war films and a little sprinkling of horror, which you would looking at his covers you'd think, yeah. And although he reads my messages, it says red I know he's looked at him, never once responds.
So yeah, at least you have the solace that he's read them. Wake up, sleepy hood.
Rock and roll will never die, at least not this Halloween.
Ready raising spirits from the dead by incantatients. Right, Yes, I did that by playing a record backwards.
Sammy Kerr, He's a rock and roll mic man.
I am a big fan of yours.
I've got all your records.
They issue this message, what's meant for me?
Howculousness?
Stuff you down to your stereo.
I wanted to know one Sammy Kerk his fans won't let him die, he won't let them live.
Should be loyal to your ear right, make a turn on, yell, shrink or treat.
Looks like we better check out the pretty munch we are talking about, trick or Tree. This movie was released
¶ Movie Release and Cast
on October the twenty fourth, nineteen eighty six. I knew where I was that that Halloween The Weekend Written by Michael S. Murphy, Joels Swisson, and rhtt Tompham, with an uncredited rewrite by future Kings of The X Files and creators of the Final Destinations franchise, Glenn Morgan and James Wong, and it was directed by Charles Martin Smith. That's character actor Charles Martin Smith, Terry the Toad from American Graffiti
Charles Martin Smith. He was also Oscar Wallace, the agent who actually brings down al Capone in The Untouchables, and was the star of a fantastic film from nineteen eighty three called Never Cry Wolf. This is his directorial debut, starring Mark Price, Tony Fields, Lisa Orgolini, Doug Savant, Ozzy Osbourne and Gene Simmons. As Nuke already gave us the plot. When did you first see this movie, Paul.
As, I say, the guy, the young guy was tape trading with me, so I would give him like kisses, lick it up on cassette, and then the next day he would come through with Trick or Treat by fast Away. I took it home and I was like, what is this? I love this? And then it must have been a matter of weeks later that I just I saw it Trick or Treat and on the video shelves there was only one. I do remember that, you know, I used
to love it. When the new films are coming in, there's a whole rack on top and you're like, oh wow, this is the new movie that everyone loves, but this one was like a shitty one at the bottom. So I took it home. I still didn't piece it all together, and when that music came out, I was like, Oh, this is the album I've just fallen in love with. And then it's about a metal head and it's about a rock god and.
Geene Simmons is in it. Oh man, come on. I loved it done this opening weekend. I yeah, this was my prime horror a phase and my prime movie going phase, so I was seeing everything that was out there, but of course I'm gonna go see this. And interestingly, I went to see this because of Charles Martin Smith, because I loved him so much, and because of not necessarily so much the mental thing, but just because of the horror thing. And I was knee deep like everyone else
was at the time. In the slasher movies, we all love blood and gore. So I think a lot of people were let down by this movie because it's not really a gory film at all, and I think that's Charles Martin Smith probably working against that. But what was your reaction as a horror fan? One of the best horror fans out there. Were you ever at all disappointed about with their approach to horror in this film? Never? Never.
The specific time that I watched it was hell Raiser was brand new, so it was a year or so later, and I remember looking at the effects on this and I thought, Oh, they're a step up from the Hell Raiser. Lightning effects that were going on in that I thought they were a bit hammy. It was a bit I didn't like of hell Raiser. And then I thought, oh, they've improved it with Trick or Treat and I really like those lightning effects that were going.
On, But the lack of gore and things.
When you're already into hell Raising and you've got that scene where you know, Frank is coming out of the floorboards and stuff like that, it's ultimate gore. This was fifteen rather than an eighteen, for sure, But because of I was already prepped by films like The Gate and things like that, it just slipped right in. It became a fast favorite, for sure, And I didn't care that it wasn't blood and guts everywhere and sex everywhere. I
didn't care about that. It was just I wanted to be entertained in it entertain me.
¶ Satanic Panic and Metal Culture
Now this film is playing off what was not an inconsequential fear at the time, satan and Satanism. We all call it now, we all call it rather amused, we call it the Satanic panic. Ha ha ha. On that point, No, there was a point in history where if you were wearing a heavy mental T shirts, somebody could walk up to you and call you a servant of Hell and feel no guilt or a total clear conscience walking away, And like the rest of society was cool with that.
Heavy metal and Satanism got interlinked very very quickly. Having a band called Black Sabbath did not help. Let's face it, correct, correct, And then by the time this movie comes out, the fact that crew are shouting at the devil, now they're courting it. And what I like about this movie go go ahead.
You mentioned Streiper and they were the ultimate enemy. I didn't know why, just like, these guys are nice. I don't want my metal to be nice. And when you see Sammy Kerhr and like there's that cutaway scene where he's in the hotel with all the candles around him and the things like that, and you just think, oh God, that's evil. I love that, right, Yeah.
Man. A friend of mine and I were just talking about it. My co host on many of my shows is one of the best friends of all time, and he's the one I used to watch this movie with all the time. He is a bigger fan of this movie than even I am. And we were commenting that, like, that scene alone kind of elevates this film. That hallucinatory look into how Sammy Kerr was actually dying after we were told it was an accidental fire in a hotel.
I don't know, it automatically raised the film above. I guess I'm answering my own question as far as my expectation with Gore, because this movie was leaning in a hole of the direction and it was more supernatural and less knife to skull.
It's when you look at it on IMDb in a couple of other places it says it's a comedy horror, which I rare. I was like, I don't know where the comedy.
In this, Yes you do. Roger vacuuming up the remains of charred large Marge is fucking hilarious every single time I see it.
But okay, So there is a couple of scenes the initial when they pull the pants down and throw him out as well, that's not funny, come on, but that it's quite funny until it isn't funny until it would ruin your whole life forevermore.
Yeah, you know what, You're right? Who's calling this a comedy? This is in no way coming. This is more of a drama with some supernatural shit going on it and then an occasional laugh.
That that is trauma right there. That only the same way that those pants are pulled down and you're you're in and you're not just got your pants on, but you're butt naked in front of like all the cool chicks at school. That would be the worst thing for me.
Like the one time that I've been sort of attacked in the street for being metal, I got spat on by quite an elderly woman because I was wearing don't ever you remember Axel Rose would wear this T shirt that had Jesus on it and it said kill your idols.
Yes, so I wore that it got spa by an old woman. Okay, you might not have commenting on your choice in music there, Paul. It might might just have been something else. I don't know, but I do remember that sitting with me for a long time, just thinking, Ah, I really upset that person, and I double checked myself to do that to someone, to have them be in like butt naked with all them girls, I would never forget that.
I would still today go to bed crying. It would be the worst. So yeah, it's not a comedy.
No, poor Ragman. Did you guys have the television sitcom Family Ties in the UK? Not at all.
No.
Michael J. Fox starring series here before he got back to the future. His best friend in that series was it Goofy Dufus Dark named Skippy. Everyone here in America knows Skippy. Skippy was played by Mark Price, who is the star of this movie. It was a shock for I think most Americans to take Skippy seriously as a metalhead, because we've known him as such an hercle kind of nerdy guy.
Interesting is interesting because I see him as nothing but a metal head.
Wow, that's mad rewatching this movie just recently. Not only his performance, I think across the board other than some local hires. You can tell that you know wherever they
were shooting on location in Wilmington, North Carolina. They had to you got to hire some locals, and there's only so many talented people in Wilmington, but the main cast are really, really solid, and I think it benefits from having Charles Martin Smith, who is an actor, an actor's actor as a matter of fact, directing these scenes because I noticed, like Mark Price in particular, like there's a lot of depth going on. He goes he the full range of emotions here and it's all genuine and it's
all earned. And I think all the performances across the border really good. What do you think of the his performance in particular, but everyone in general.
The only tim I don't like he's performance is when he does that that Christine thing, you know, where he's like now got a little bit of call about him, a bit of swagger, and then he leaves his best friends and he goes off like acting really hard and cool and smart. It's like, well, you're the same guy. You've just won one little battle. You've not won the war, dude, And I don't like that. And when it happens in Christine, it goes so wild that I'm bored with it. But
with this guy, I like him. Don't treat your friends like Dix, because they're your friends. So that's the only time I'm like, but you know, he was told to act like that.
So I think the only.
Person that knows what movie they're in is Ozzy Osbourne. A lot of the time, I think they take it really seriously, all this cast, and I really enjoy it because of that.
Okay, you mentioned we've got let's talk both cameos actually,
¶ Cameos and Performances
because I guess that technical cameos from the heavy metal world evidently offered the role of Sammy Kerr but turned it down in order to portray a lifelong obsession of his wealth. Man Jack tugging Geen and the Simmons the demon himself playing DJ Nuke. Now you're a fan of mister Simmons. I'm a fan of mister Simmons. Are you a fan of his films? Runaway? Excellent?
I am a fan of the films, but I know they're shit, but I am a fan of them. Like, there's nothing that he's been in that I think, Oh man, I'm not going to watch that because I will always watch that. But he is the only person in this film that I think is oh as a word. I think he's the only sensible. He's the only likable character in this movie. Everyone else it seems like bizarre and mad.
And although I think the writing's quite good for the type of film that this is, to have him as the grounded guy, Gene Simmons, that's weird.
It's a weird take, right, yeah, But that's what I love about it. It puts you off kilter that the craziest among us is the one speaking the truth and telling everyone exactly what needs to happen so that nothing bad happens, and then no one listens to him, and everything bad happens. I like Gene Simmons quite a bit as an actor, and I think that this is definitely his best performance. He's in two scenes in this movie, and I look forward to it every time, and I
miss him when he's gone. There's something. The relationship between Ragman and Nuke is so tender and fatherly and mentor, and you know, Nuke hung the title rag Man on Eddie Weinbauer.
Yeah right, yeah, definitely, And you're totally right. He is, as I say, he's the grounded guy, but he I wouldn't. He's the wrong word. But he just feels like the pain that Ragman's going through. So he's gonna be that guy that you can go to a fair from fatherly advice. I would say that, like, you know, that's the person that he looks up to. I just I'm gutted that he's not in more scenes. I know with the Aussie one, there was like like thirty to fifty minutes or something
that they left on the Cutton room floor. But with Jane, I have no idea, and I would love for him to come back towards the end or something, even if it's just to be killed. I would have loved that.
But no, Yeah, the finale spoilers everybody. The finale does take place at the radio stage, or parts of it take place at the radio station where it's now automated, and which I like. But you're right, like, why don't we have Nuke in there trying to stop Sammy Kerr? And not only that, Sammy Kerr and he evidently went to high school together. They have history. He's talking from experience when he's telling Eddie exactly how Sammy was and is and used to be. Now, yeah, I wish I had that box set.
There's just come out, like maybe the extras reveal it. It's such a I imagine I had him for a day if that, and it was just like, right, you've nailed those two scenes, but maybe nothing else was written.
I don't know.
It just seems mad opportunity that he didn't ad lib something or do something.
It's crazy. Yeah, I guarantee you. Part of his decision to not play Sammy Kerr was the amount of days he would have to spend in North Carolina. I'll come down for a day or two. Sure, I'm not going to put on the makeup and have electricity and fall off a trap. He is. No, that's not going to be me. He would have been an awful Sammy Kerr, the worst, the worst. He is not that kind of metal. He's theatrical, but he's not dancy theatrical. Tell me what
you think about Ossie in this. I love Ozzy in this? Yeah, I do excellent. I think it's fun.
I don't know when his speech started to go really mad slurry, because here he is totally focused, even though we the cuts are no more than like ten seconds or so with him, but he can still string sentences together no problem at all. He's got that character down
and he's funny with it. You I know, as I say, he knows what movie he's in and like that when I was growing up with like looking at Fangoria or whatever, just to try and like, what is there a line about this film in that you know he mentioned in an interview like yeah, there was loads of extra footage. They only used like a little bit, and I was just like, wow, what else did you give them?
I'd love to see that. I hope it's on that box out, I really do. I don't. I have not seen this, bike said I will seek it out. I watched a Blu ray of this and the title of the film that I saw was ragman ah.
That and mine. Yeah, so I need a new copy of this, like I got mine from Europe.
Not only that, every twenty minutes or so, there's a couple of cute darts that show up. I'm sure you know, cute dants from the other films something in the top of Everyone knows them. Everyone knows them as listen, I was a projectionist twenty or so. Yeah, people like to call them cigarette burns. And let me tell you, nobody calls them cigarette burns. No one in the industry ever called them cigarette burns. We just called them ques or
Q dots. It's a romantic way of saying it. But it's for people who were projectionists for one semester in college. Like they they've walked away with the No, those are ones called cigarette burns. No they're not.
Anyway, I want to call them cigarette burns.
Say yeah, I know, because it's cool, but loo come on, gonna be realistic. We're gonna say cigarette burns. Are you telling me you weren't putting cigarettes? Just get it just right so the next book guy that comes on and knows when to come on? Cool? You were? I never did that. I used silver tape along the edge. Anyway, where are we here? Oh my god, tricker? We are trick or treating. Glenn Morgan, the ghostwriter of this film,
¶ Character Dynamics and Missed Opportunities
plays Roger in this film. Who's Roger? Roger Eddie Bower Eddie Weinbouer's best friend is played by Glenn Morgan.
The oh this film, I just correct the straight and sensible mate. Yeah, yeah, he's pretty cool and like that their friendship. I wish I'd gone a bit more into it. I wish we'd gone around his house. It very much reminds me of the Gate, and I loved in the Gate where you would go around to each bedroom, you know, and like they'd be talking to each other like friends
were at that time. It doesn't matter how far you've got to walk to see your friend, you're going to do it, you know, and you're going to be looking at record covers and things like that. Missedter trick there. I guess that the writing and everything was already done. Everything had to be tight. But I would have loved a little bit more between them two because they'd suit each other. We've got one that's like the a metal kid. It's like, yeah, yeah, rocks, you know whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I really liked their their friendship. I didn't know that at all. That's great news. Yeah, great.
Yeah. Evidently the actor that they had lined up dropped out at the last second and they were on set, so they're like you you'll work. And about the writting, I agree. I wanted more of all of these characters,
more of all of these relationships. This is a ninety minute film and it's pretty fleet footed at that, and they tell a lot of story here, but we could have had a breath here in there for Eddie and his best friend get to know Eddie a little bit more than just as the tortured person that they keep fucking heaping horrible events upon in the form of Blonde Blow Drag. Doug Savant, even.
In your synopsis of the film, you mentioned, like the scene with their metal work, Yeah, crush, and like, I was always a dream of mine, not to metal work someone to death that bullied me, but just to get my own back, to win one battle against the bully. I love that, And yeah, you get that fantasy fulfilled here. As I say, his reaction about it was a bit much, but like still to get that one up finally, and how choreographed was his like escape, it was wonderful.
Put the mop here, go around the corner here, put a chair here, walk down here, make sure they're going to be carrying out tables now here go That's correct, And you know what that points to, Not only did I want more of the Eddie and Roger friendship. I really wanted more of the Eddie Sammy friendship. That's pretty elating that he orchestrates that for Eddie and Eddie feels
that and there might have been more of that. The scene where Eddie has started doing the back masking and realize it's effectively a telephone or a radio at this point, like he can ask questions and he'll get direct answers, Like that's he's that's such a delightful scene, Like it's exciting, and I wanted more of that, Like maybe like he worms his way into into turning Eddie Winebower evil.
You know, I think though, it's because we've seen it so many times. This film is so rewatchable that you want that you'll favorite bits of which there will be loads if you're into this film, just to be extended, to see what happened next, and to expand on those characters that you already love. It's not like a regular sort of slasher that you know isn't a one and done you'll go and watch like Maniac again or whatever, but you want to. I know, I feel like friends
with a lot of these characters. I feel like I know them, And yeah, I just I think you're right. Like imagine like just one night of them sitting down chatting, and so you get that bond. And then when that bond is destroyed Sammy Kurz ruined that friendship, then we can see maybe, like the way he got back on the Bullies, maybe he can get back on Sammy like that. You know that that would have been cool. I think you have to be loyal to your heroes. Wow, yeah
I wouldn't. I don't know how I would conjure up K Cobain. I don't know what I need to do with a needle or whatever, but yeah, I don't.
I'm quite happy where I am. I think, yeah, for sure, some sort of some sort of wacky oversized sunglasses. That's the first step in and everybody knows that, come on there, So.
Yeah, that'll do it. I'll wear them back to front. Maybe he is right in front of me. I saw Nirvana and it was one of the highlights of my musical life ever, and I'll never forget it. And it was that moment like Ragman gets here where you know you've got your idol right in front of you and there's nothing nothing like it, nothing feels like it. It's like that poster on his ceiling, you know, right at the top of his wall with Sammy Kerr there, like
we've been there when we see our idols. It's just like, Wow, that's that person. That's amazing. Yeah, I get like all his feels in this, I really do.
A few years ago, I was a tour guide and a hunted attraction here in Las Vegas, a haunted museum perhaps, And I noticed on one tour I was conducting, we would have groups of about eight to ten people that standing in the back was this diminutive, bespectacled, balding gentleman who was most definitely Charles Martin Smith. And there comes a point in the tour where you've introduced the group to a room of artifacts, and you give them a brief history of things, and then step back and let
them examine. And I did, and he was examining something and I be lined right the fuck over and I said, you're Charles Martin Smith, aren't you? And he said yeah yeah, And I said, I love you first of all Terry the Toad and Starman and any litany of roles, and I said, and of course trick or treat, and which made him laugh because he's like, there's always one of you. And then just on a personal note, I'm father alone. But that's not my actual surname. That's Wallace. Yeah, that's
it's Wallace. And he portrayed a character of Oscar Wallace in The Untouchables, And as I said, he's the one who actually brings down al Capone, and he's the one who dies tragically in the effort to do so. And so I was able to tell Charles Martin Smith that, like thirteen year old me, beamed with pride, and I forever accepted Charles Martin Smith as a member of my family band them.
Do you think the thing is he would have left and gone that was cool? You know that he would have remembered that.
Now what if he had said, let's kill your enemies? I would have been on board that.
That's the moment when you think, oh, I'm not such a fan anymore, not unless you're in this film, in which case, yeah, let's let's do it. And there is the thing with this there is that point. There is a snapping point where he knows he's gone too far. And I thought conjuring up a dead rock star would have been a turning point. But no, no, that's not it. That's that's nothing. Everyone's doing that. Everyone's backwards masking.
Right.
I've tried after watching this film, and I think I do it in the gate, don't they as well?
Oh? Yeah?
And more recently, oh my god, the rob Zombie one with the record, Yeah, yeah, they don't backward mass up, but it sounds just like it in places it's going forward. But that sort of thing in a horror movie is amazing, and I would like ruin my records whenever Judas Priest or whoever. It was like, you know, when it went to court the States. So when I got wind of that, had that record right, and I was trying to what can you hear? Like, what was it? Kill them, kill
him something like that? I had nothing, What are you talking about? Sorry to go off there.
That's fine, you know. The only one I ever really heard with my own airs and went that could be something was the famous Zeppelin for Stairway to Heaven backwards my Sweet Satan. But I it's actually him if he's from the South, because like mass Sweet Sitan like that, I'm like, well, is he actually saying same? Did they put that in there? Really? Anyway, it was a great
fear at the time. I love that movie that we're playing on it, and I was making this point earlier, like another thing I love about this movie the fact
¶ Heavy Metal and Satanism in Film
that everyone was so freaked out about heavy metal and Satanism and here's a movie going yep, it's all true and here's the thing.
This doesn't glorify metal and the metal kid is being bullied and has got a shitty life. The rock star is killing everyone like you know, it's it's actually what they're warning you about this. Sami Curve is this person, Like the time we actually get to see him when he was alive and on stage. I think it's through a TV. But he's cutting open a live snake and pouring the blood in his mouth. So what this is beyond Motley Cruze Sunshine, what you're doing?
You know? I love that moment where it's like just a lot news broadcast and they show him bite through a snake and then pour its blood into his mouth and then like revel in that blood. I'm like, are they really showing this at out? Yeah?
And I want to know how that was done because it looked great. Oh, it did look great. I think Sammy Kerr is not portrayed as like he is a own model. I think the only person that you could say gets away with it again, Gene Simmons is just like a totally well adjusted person in this.
I do think it's funny, however, that he's on the one hand, he's like Eddie, this is just a guy. He's not a god. And he went to this high school. If you don't put him up so high that you're going to hurt yourself now that he's gone, and then gives him the ascetate and goes, he's in here, you know, come on mixed messages, nuke, you're nuking his brain.
Also, like this rock star that even makes it onto your local network news broadcast, and you've got the one copy, the one copy, and you give it to this guy, and like I would have cried, my oh, thank you for this unreleased Nirvana like album that's got one copy. I'll look after it. No, I would have cried or would have hugged. But he just said, oh man, thanks, thanks very much, cheers, you know, off he goes.
I was like, what is that all you're getting? You've just given him something that's priceless. Well, no one deserved it more than Ragman. Obviously you knew Ragman would take care of that album until he didn't.
Yeah, until he didn't. You mentioned what can happen with regards to like the hoovering up moment and things like that, or when it got supernatural when Sammy Kerr is like pulling people out the TV or swiping with his hand on the TV. I think it's Ossie gets swept away
like that. Those effects me as a kid watching this stuff like you in a cinema, this stuff like you mentioned, like the gorl and stuff, but that when you get that sort of cool effect, I'm totally game and in trance and still today I'm like, wow, the way they must have done that, Like I'm so impressed still today.
Most of the visual effects were seeing on screen I think was dream Quest Images and they were pioneers in digital imaging, which is why like when Sammy Kerr disappears, he wipes off the screen like almost as if his image is peeled away from the rest of the image, but you can see him super imposed and that he's gonna pull away in those moments if you're looking, which I am, of course. But the effects overall, I just love, particularly the makeup effects. Kevin Yeger are here doing the makeup.
Kevin Yeger who did the cript Keeper as a matter of fact, for the Tales from the Crypt television series, so he did the makeup on Kerr and he did the Rape Demon. We haven't mentioned the Rape Demon sequence.
Oh yeah, that I forget about that every time, and when it happens, oh.
Every time, I never remember it either, because we both love this movie and we know that scene doesn't have any place in it. It doesn't make sense.
But I guess when you've learned a new effect, you know you're doing a horror picture, like why not?
Why not? And again, it doesn't hurt the film. It doesn't.
This film does not need it. But that is the same when you watch it that you're just like, oh, that's that's gross. And yet I guess as a kid, you all went, as a you know, a young male kid, Oh, hello, this is this is really cool. I'm loving this.
Oh as a pubescent boy, sure it's it's it's the greatest scene on earth. So I watched with any sort of morality at all. It kind of kind of goes away. However, technically, as you're saying, the creature itself is fucking great, first of all, and then the animation of the ghostly tendrils that are removing her clothing that's really cool too. But
here's my question. Eddie gives his bully this tape hoping he's going to listen to the tape, and it's going to kill him yep, and inadvertently kills the guy's girlfriend, who listens to the tape. Now, had the intended victim, Doug Savant, the blow dried blonde bully, listened to the tape, would the demon have also sexily undressed him.
I hope so I wouldn't have been so turned on watching that scene, but I still would have really enjoyed it. I would have loved that moment. Yeah, it's an unfortunate thing, but we need more bully and I like when the bully finally flips and gets scared, and you know, as bullies do, when they there's something that they don't understand, they strike out and when it gets too much, they retreat. And it's a perfect execution of that scenario with this film.
But yeah, I'm as I say, I forget every time when I watch this film, and I've watched this film a lot, I just forget that's there, And when it's there, I'm like, oh, it's that scene, And then I'm like, oh, it's that see.
Oh oh yeah, I just noticed for the first time today rewatching this film. When Sammy Kerr appears to Roger at one point, he motions to the television and the television television flicks through a dozen different channels. One of the images, just for a moment is a bit of driftwood. That's a piece of the Elizabeth Dane because for one moment there's a shot of John Carpenter's The Fog on that television. Wow them alone. I found that very interesting. What's it mean? I don't know. And also how did
they have had the rights to that? They couldn't have that's the This is a Dela Entis Entertainment Group film. The Fog was Avco embassy and released by I think Universal or Fox or something, so there's no way there was any overlap. Somebody just was like, I don't know, just throw a picture of that fucking driftwood. I guess.
It is really interesting because like this film, when you watch it, it feels like there is a love of the genre within it, and yet I know from past interviews with the director and other people on set that that wasn't particularly the case, that that love of horror wasn't there. This was another film, another job. Yes it was a horror film, but like that wasn't what they were, you know, in love with making this and crafting this even like Sammy Kerr is not a rocker, you know, it's what
is he a dancer? He danced with Michael Jackson. I think he did a backup dancer, ye, But I think it works in this case, Justred per, I think everything works. I just think it's so lucky the way it all comes together, because, like you say, like that little flash that you noticed of another film like horror nerds would would be doing that, but who else would.
No one would get that, so why risk it?
You know?
I like that they don't. It's not a love of the genre that this was made. I don't get out you're talking about. Charles Martin Smith was probably not the biggest horror fan, but wanted to direct a movie and this was an opportunity, so we took it and he did the best job he could. And I think he did do a fantastic job. But the other people working
with him certainly could be fans of horror. I'm sure the guy prepping their video thing where it's just flicking through, I'm sure it just read in the script it flicks from channel to channel, and nobody gave a shit what those channel would look like as long as it flipped through those channels. So somebody who's a horror fan working here, there's somebody on the inside, was it you? I don't
¶ Remake and Music Discussion
tell anybody now before we go, mister Paul Waller, I'm going to steal a page from your book. Let's say right now, in twenty twenty four, there are plans on the books for a remake of Trick or Treat and they need a new theme song. You until recently were the frontmen of the fantastic metal band Homes. Which song of your back catalog are you going to choose? And we're going to play it right after this.
I don't know if you can because it's too long, but I would definitely put a song like Dawn of the Swarm one. It's an early one, but it's still available. I think it's like eighteen minutes long, So don't do all of that. But there is a bit on the second half where I start like talking about like this wizard and then and all the time when the music's going in the background, there's a little backwards like sitar
noise that if you listen carefully, it's in there. It's just a guitar playing backwards, but it sounds just like a Star and I was always thinking of, like playing this backwards, what would that sound like? So I guess that matches like that the gist of this, but Dawn of the Swarm for sure, well that bit is going to be cut in.
How about that? Not the fall eighteen minutes we got I've got a tablem in here. Can I just say I have delayed in recently in the past few weeks visiting your back catalog, I was a neophyte there. I'm sorry you're no longer a band now. I think that last album is my favorite. That might be just a little punker me like in four minute songs and not eighteen minute masterpieces, but that entire album rot in particular. Can you guess what my favorite song might have? Could it be swamping?
It is?
Wow? By the way, I read a review that said that the opening sound and the closing sound on the album is a cassette tape, like a fucking audio cassette tape. Are they out of their minds? Yeah?
I mean yeah, we take any review that you can get, and I'll take it. But yeah, our drummer I just said, look, we need a few weird sounds and things in this. It's basically a horror movie. We're going to begin it and we're going to end it. Can you just sort something out? And he just came up with all of that in a couple of weeks, and bless him. The sound of a VHS tape going in especially, I just know I can see the machine as it goes in on that.
Yeah.
So I'm sure it's been done a million times, but just to have my horror fantasies on one record, and that record being rott So we finally did those shorter songs and they're so catchy. Man, I loved it. I had to do something like that before we split, and I'm glad we did.
Am I insulting by comparing your band to Stone Temple Pilots, I would say heaviest version of Stone Temple Pilots parsible, I.
Would say, like that first record and also one of the really later records as well. I think it's got Star on the cover. There's some moments in that, and definitely moments on the first one. I would always try and because he had that quite Eddy vedery voice, yeah, and I would try and avoid that at every possible moment that I could, and whenever I would creep into it, the band would stop and I'd go hold on, hold on, hold on, and like go back, and I'd have to
redo it. So yeah, they were fans for sure.
I don't necessarily mean that your vocal standings was that of Scott Winland. I was just saying musically.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, but I loved I loved that Eddie Veder like Scott, like.
Wish I could do it. You can see while they were like Nopaul, I think you guys did all right?
¶ Conclusion and Final Thoughts
All right, Thank you ladies and Gentleen, Thank you Paul for joining us. Hey, I was just about to cut out without letting you plug your fucking show. Oh ayre in Horror.
Yeah, episodes with Father Father Malone are coming.
Up soon, fantastic And as for everybody else, thank you for joining us here at midnight viewing. If you want to support the show, go on over to patreon dot
com slash follow them alone. You get episodes early and commercial free, and you'll get our new Patreon only show, Cable Box Theater, where Noise Junkies host HP and myself look at television, or rather we look at shows from the early nineteen in the eighties, late nineteen seventies filmed Broadway productions that aired on Showtime and HBO when they had nothing else to air. We're going to leave you with a bit of Sammy Kerr and then a bit of ohms. We'll catch you next time on Father Malone's
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