Fusco Fest - Crossroads (1986)

Will you wait, miss Welcome back to another midnight viewing Noise Junkies crossover. My god, it's becoming a trend. Welcome back, mister HP, composer of the weirding Way Media Network and certainly a frequent collaborator here, host of Noise Junkies, host of Night, mister Walters, and my good pal he's a music man by trade, mister HP. How are you, sir?

I couldn't be more thrilled. I feel like I say this every time follom alone, but this is I'm so excited. This is such a such an awesome movie for us to dig into, so excited.

We certainly seem to be going down the list of childhood musical related films. Last we did Sergeant Pepper before, and that was a cable box theater one. But here's this one's going out to everybody. Yeah, of course it

There's a place where deals are made and legends are born. And there was a kid they called Lightning Boy. He was searching for the lost song. You could be the first man to record it for a piece of fame and fortune.

Like Clapton did with Crossrooms, Rolling Stones did it with love and van.

And he was looking to get him there.

Welcome to Bruceville, Son. This is a real thing to say.

No, Lighting Boy and blind What the hell are you guys supposed to be?

I'm a bluesman.

He's from Long Island.

Oh and he's the Mississippi Street.

I'm ready to roll.

You need a lot more than that, you know.

The owner walked up to will We did three one hundred dollars dolls and says you're.

Barking play only one blues man in town to night?

Who was met?

I choke you, dude, and you get knocked on your There's a place where deals are made.

And you made your deal with the Crossroads.

Yeah, I made a deal.

Oh I get you want some kind of contest.

Huh.

Where a thin line separates the good? I'm giving you all the magic I got from the Great Woo Brown cent Eugene Morton is ready to cross it.

HP. Yes, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that this was not your first time seeing Crossroads.

Oh, no, this was. This would have been nineteen eighty six. This was a big cable movie. I didn't see this one in the theater, so I saw it probably dozens of times in its day, but since then I've rewatched it many times. This was a real formative film for me in becoming a guitar player. I honestly this. I'm not ashamed to say that this probably inspired me to pick up the guitar and start taking lessons.

Oh I had thought you had already been playing guitar by the time you had seen this movie.

No, because that would have been about thirteen when this movie came out, or thereabouts. I probably look I might have started taking lessons right around the time. But certainly this was something between this and I would say, in a funny way, back to the future, seeing Martin fly up there at the Enchantment, under Sea Dance playing Johnny b Good, cheesy as hell. I'm a kid of the suburbs, but these things got me excited to learn how to

Indeed, we will. You know what, We're gonna dive right into this movie. But the nominal plot, such as it is, finds Ralph Manteo, a student of Juilliard in New York City who is become obsessed with the blues, and more importantly obsessed with the legend of Robert Johnson, the famous bluesman who was purported to have gone to the crossroads and sold his soul to the devil in order to play the guitar better than anyone on earth, and then gave us twenty nine songs, but they were supposed to

Yes, yeah, it's funny because this was really Ralf Macchio's second sort of apprentice type movies. He obviously the Karate Kid just before this. While he was making this and taking guitar lessons, he was also taking karate lessons for the upcoming at that point, Karate Kid Part two, So his days were pretty full and he was I believe he was twenty five at the time, playing seventeen years old in this movie and doing a great job of it.

He's a good actor. I mean, I certainly think he's good in the role. I don't know he's pulling off seventeen.

I think he is. There's a confidence and an awkwardness. I think he's obviously he lets that shine a little more in Karate Kid because he's firmly a high school kid there. But I think in this he's supposed to be a guitar prodigy, a classical guitar prodigy. By the way, did you happen to see one of our favorite actors in a little cameo as his guitar teacher, Helen Arbus He was on Mash. He's like an Alan Alda type who he was in Mash. He was Carlos Navarone's manager in the taxi episode.

Where they That's where I know I'm from.

He's mister sensitivity. He didn't have his mustache. That's the only thing. That's why I didn't notice it at first, But.

The thing is HB. I'm conversant in mash but I really did not watch that show.

I didn't either, but I just he I guess I'm just such a fan of Alan Arbus and it's a delight when I see him pop up on My only problem with him here is he has a very ill advised accent that was totally unnecessary for it, doing my guitar teacher.

Yeah, doing like a Brahm and upper krusty snow.

I thought it was more like an Eastern European kind of as if maybe he was Russian or something. That's what I got out of it.

Oh, I thought he was doing an impression of William Daniels, the voice of Kit.

Not at all, Not at all, but but not. I really love Ralph Macchio in this. I like everybody in this really, there's I can't point to. There's only one aspect of his performance that bugs me even now after all these years. And there's a few geeky guitar type things.

Oh yeah, boy, we're gonna disagree fundamentally about a lot of things in this movie.

It seems we might, we just might.

This is a Walter Hill film. I don't think there's any better action director at that time. I think there are better action directors now. I certainly think action films have come up to his level in some regards, but none will ever come up to the level of macho masculinity that Walter Hill was always striving for. And of course he's just trying to get up to the level of Sam Peckinpah, which I don't think he ever quite achieved.

I don't either. The remarkable thing for me, and doing more research on this is I did not realize that this was an R rated movie, and for the life of me, Father Malone, I can't figure out on what basis it was rated.

Are they say fuck a lot?

I guess they do. It just seems rather tame compared to what you can do nowadays. But it's certainly not a violent movie. It's not sexually explicit, but I guess for on the basis of language alone, I guess I could see that, but it seems a little unfair.

Yeah, it does. It's not like anyone was going to be damaged by watching this mild tale of a boy checking or rescuing an old man from a nursing home and helping him get back to his home before he dies, or possibly preventing that.

But I think if we're gonna dig into this I think the first thing we need to talk about is, let's talk about the screenwriter, John Fussco.

Right now.

I don't know I'm gonna call him. Let's go fuse go is probably.

I'm going I continue to call him Feusco. If I'm wrong, I apologize, mister Fusco.

And I apologize. I apologize, right So let Fusco now this he was enrolled at was at NYU. He was He was on the screenwriting track at NYU, and this was his master's thesis, this screenplay. Now he was. He was a blues musician. He was somebody who I think he played guitar, and from what I have read, he was told by his doctor that he had to take some time off from singing because he had damaged his vocal cords or something. And in the meantime, he was

Now, that's a huge sum man.

But let me ask you, father Malone, this is yes, this is really a rhetorical question. What else would we know John Fusco from.

I know that I certainly know him from Young Guns and Young Guns two in particular. Now, ye, you say the names of those movies and people just brush them off. Soh the Brent Packwestern AHAs, and that's silly, is not fun. They're trying to play cowboys and shit right, And I to a degree, I agree with that for the first film, because it does feel a little stunt castie. Look at all these young studs out there riding and roping and

I love Young Guns too, Love. I enjoyed the first one, but like you, I fucking loved the second one. I saw it in the theater. I'm I'm no student of Western cinema. I will admit that, so I'm sure that there's probably it's somewhat derivative of other movies that came before it. But to your point, I think it's so economically written, and it's for it being another in this sort of brat pack type Western movies you had the

We're talking about John Fiusco and this is one of his things, So I.

Love it, So I'm you know, I'm a fan of his work, and I was surprised when I don't remember when I learned this, but to learn that he wrote Crossroads, which is one of my all time favorites. In addition, was really cool to learn.

And what it is a really good script. I have some problems with it. It feels a bit like a first screenplay to me, but I do love when you hear someone's master's thesis goes immediately to film. The other one that immediately springs to mind is what's his name? Gregory Widen was the name of that screenwriter and then, which is funny because he had been a firefighter and would eventually write the screenplay for backdraft. You would think that would have been his lead.

Off back because that's what he knows best.

Yeah, what you know, it is No, I think my first greenplay will be about immortals fighting with swords in New York City in the modern times.

And yet that's what will That's what is, That's what he's best known for. That is what has given him that cult status. Right, they're even still talking about remaking Highlander even now forty years later. It could be a very good thing and a very bad thing. We'll have to say.

I'm cautiously optimistic. Henry Cavill as the Highlander. I'm okay with that.

Oh, he's got I like Henry Cavill because he feels like a geek that was just born into this Adonnis type body. I think his heart's in the right place, I think.

And we'll finally hear Connor MacLeod do a proper Scottish accent.

If I'm looking at this movie with a bit more of a critical eye towards theme, one could look at this and see this as an example of just some white kid who's got to come in and be the savior for an African American and need I don't subscribe to that point of view. I think it's just a good story. But I could see somebody looking at this saying, yeah, maybe not the best look. But if no other reason, this was made in nineteen eighty five, eighty six. I

Here's the last thing I'll say about John Fisco. He had a movie in twenty nineteen called The Highwaymen with Kevin Costner and Woody Harrelson, about these two Texas Rangers who are hunting down Bonnie and Clyde, which is also really great. So everyone checked that out. Now to the white savior point you were making, Yeah, that's what I thought when I saw this movie. I saw this movie in the theater, by the way, because I mentioned it. Walter Hill is one of my all time favorite filmmakers.

Oh it's not.

Anyway, he is a favorite of mine, and of course any new film of his I was going to go see, so it was definitely involved in this. Now, okay, you know what, let's before we head further into this, let's

Unquestionably, we were indoctrinated when we were so young, father Malone, watching The Blues Brothers the movie. So many great R and B and blues musicians in that and we didn't know it wasn't I didn't know who Ray Charles or James Brown or any of these people.

Were, or John Lee Hooker or John.

Lee Hooker is He's the best example. He's somebody I mean who I mean. At least James Brown was known as this towering R and B figure, But John Lee Hooker was always on the cusp of just being a bit unknown. But hearing Boogie Chilling on the radio there and seeing him perform in the streets of Chicago.

I love that talta glad that take it like that?

How that was certainly my first exposure to the quote unquote real blues and not something that was like white blues appropriated from England in the sixties.

So there is a current of resurgence of the Blues going on around this time period anyway, And I think if there's a if there's a filmmaker who would have the Wherewithal the ghett a movie made about the Blues, it would be Walter Hill at this time, and also the juice to get it made at this time. Although I'm a little confused because he had just had Streets of Fire, which was a terrible, horrible failure of a film financially. I love that movie.

Crossroads wasn't like the last movie that he made that was a big budget studio movie. I'm looking at his IMDb. He did remember Trespass with Iced t Oh yeah, he did. Johnny Hansome, Oh yeah, of course.

And you know what what's funny is when you mentioned those movies to me, the first thing that comes to mind is the grinding guitar scores by Ry Cooter.

Right. I think for me, the last sort of big budget studio picture that I remember him making was probably Last Man Standing, which was that the Bruce Willis. I think it was like a remake of was it.

First Fistful of Dollars? Yo Jimbo and now Jimbo?

Yes, But after that, I think he started moving into a little bit more TV. He did still get undisputed with ving Rains and a few other things.

But you know about that Yo Jimbo thing. Ya Jimbo is an unofficial adaptation of The Glass Key by Dashal Hammett, right, which is a gangster movie. I did not know that gangster novel. Right, So he makes you Jimbo, turns it into a samurai film, and then the Anion Maraconi, not any of Macaroni, fucking what's his name?

Oh oh, Sergiolioni.

Yeah, so then Sergioleni says, hey, that samurai thing, that would make a good Western and turns it into a Western. And then Walter Hill says, hey, you know that western that'd make a good gangster film.

Yeah. It's like a game of telephone where it just keeps getting pulled away from the ear.

It is because that original book it takes place in like Chicago or something like that. It's just a normal town that this gang war is taking place. And by the time it gets to Waldo Hills, fim, it's like this post apocalyptic like border town where there's nothing but gangsters.

So Ralph Maccio's guitar coach for this movie was a guy named Arlen Roth. Okay, Arlon Roth, I believe can lay claim to being the first sort of guitar guy who put out a series of like VHS lessons like hot Licks or something. It was called right, So he ostensibly taught Ralf Maccio, if not how to play the music, at least how to mime it as good as he

Do we have any idea of what particularly is his in the film or on the soundtral.

No, we don't, that's the thing. It's it all. We don't, and I don't. Frankly, I don't know enough about either man's style to be able to go, oh, that's definitely ry Cooter and that's definitely Arlen Roth. But I do know that Arlin Roth was on set. He was, like I said, he was Ralph Macchio's guitar coach for the duration of the picture, and for some reason he wasn't given credit, and I don't really don't know why. He doesn't seem to know why either.

In interviews, I couldn't tell you off the top of my head any differentiations between guitarists and styles. But I could tell you when ry Cooter is playing, I know his style at least that well. Man has thirty albums and I have too many of them.

He's a legend. He played on probably one of my favorite Monkeys tracks, which is off of the album head. It's called as We Go All Along it's not he's not necessarily like doing a showy solo, but he's part of that track. He's part of the vibe, and I think it's an amazing song and his playing is wonderful.

Oh give up your secrets, let down, He's sit with me.

There has to be a movie made about the sixties session musicians in Los Angeles, maybe a TV series on Netflix.

There's all sorts of because these are musicians that really didn't get much credit. I know there was a Wrecking Crew documentary, and there was a documentary about the session musicians from the seventies that played on, like James Taylor and all these other Linda Ronstadt, So there must be some sort of fictionalized take on that would be really interesting. I would see it.

Me too, man, I'd watch the fuck out of that, just like I would watch Crossroads anytime.

That's right, I would too. So that the music's pretty well covered there. The only what's a little jarring now when you listen to it is there's a lot of Eighties noess, it's blues. You're hearing mostly just blues through the whole picture, but it's that eighties blues with the sort of reverb laden drums, a lot of chorus on

It's not exactly the sound of Delta Blues.

No, not in the but it works because these are really good musicians. Because ry Cooter is amazing. He's a tremendous slide player. So it's a lot of that's forgiven. But yeah, it's it's it's a little dated.

Okay, here's my two cents about the white Savior thing. By the way, Yeah, this character should be black. There's just no question that this should be a young black man who in the middle of the nineteen eighties when popular culture everything was R and B and or hip hop. To have a young black character like going back through his roots even though he's Okay, Now, that makes it even trickier because my other problem can be found at

But to the movie's credit, to Fusco's credit, there's a scene where Eugene they find Eugene is finally exposed Willie Brown for being this legendary blues man, and he has sprung this idea on him that you'll teach me this song and then we'll take it and we'll you know. And one of the things Willy Brown says is he basically says, you're just like every other white guy. You're just going to take the music and you're going to make it, you know, its own thing. I you know.

It doesn't even allude to it. Like Eugene says, just like clamped in.

With Crossroads, Yeah, that's what he says, Just.

Like appen with the Crossroads, I'll be able to and which, by the way, if Willie Brown here is making his point and he does he say no, he just says another white boy, right, But we've already he just white. They've already planted fucking Clapton's name in my mind. And that's all I think when I think of Eric Clapton, when I hear that fucking Crossroad song come on the radio or something, I'm just like, you, fucking thief, you shot the sheriff. Fuck you.

I'm not such a fan of Clapton anyway.

He's a racist piece of shit.

That's exactly why he's a racist. I don't care if he was smacked out and maybe that he said those things. There's no going back from that.

And I and he said those things multiple times on multiple okays. Oh it was the drink talking. It was the drugs talking. It was him talking. I've never been so drunk that I've suddenly become a racist.

I totally agree, to be honest. Like his music, I was never that thrilled by it, just on a on a musical level, put aside all the other stuff. I just I never really got the Clapton god stuff. Maybe I'm just willfully ignorant of the man's place in music. I don't think I am. I think I know a little bit, but it was.

Never you know what he was at the same time as Jimmy Page and Jimmy Hendrix. Go fuck yourself with worship.

Yeah, there's Alvin Lead, you could the list goes on. There's a million, Rory Gallagher. The man is the king of the blues and he was an irishman. Get the fuck out of here. There's ways to do it. There's an authentic way to do it, and I'm I don't know how authentic Clapton is ultimately, And now watch all this hate mail is going to come in for you, all these listeners going, what are you talking about? It? Clipton's God.

Anyway, they'd be wrong, but then we'd both be wrong.

This is true. Yeah, so he's so. But what one thing I want to a slight correction, and this is important to the story, I think is you had mentioned Eugene Springs Willie Brown from this rest home of this nursing home, but it's really not a nursing home. Father Malone in actual fact is he's basically in prison. He's been in prison for something like twenty years, twenty five years up to that point. We're shooting a man, so it's not necessarily that he's this cuddly. It's not cocoon

Yeah, Willie Brown is a fully functioning character, definitely. And yes, obviously I made it seem like it was cocoon.

Yeah, he played that up a little bit. When there's that sequence where they actually spring him where Eugene comes.

And nobody cares.

That's the other thing. He springs him from this prison, He breaks him out of jail effectively, and I know it's a nursing home, but it's jail, and they proceed to do nothing about it. No one ever tries to find Willy. No one puts out an APB on a kid and an old black man on the run. That's it. Maybe they're just happy that Willy's his hair out of their hair. I don't know.

That's what I liked about that sequence, the utter lack of magnitude of the actual event.

It's funny because they make their way to this cab that Eugene has left waiting outside, and a cop car starts screaming towards them with lights and sirens blaring, and Eugene freezes because he says to himself, well, this is it. The jig is up, and then the cop cary just proceeds to keep going down the road wherever it's actually going, whatever call it's attending to. They don't care about Willy Brown now.

So Eugene is springing Willy Brown because he's gonna WILLI. Brown has promised if he gets him out and gets him back down south to Mississippi, he will reveal the thirtieth Missing song from Robert Johnson, and that is just so tantalizing. But speaking of Robert Johnson, let's go back to the opening scene. If we get tu Voc.

The vulcan is he one of the engineers.

On no On voyage And here he's Robert Johnson making a deal with the Oh I.

Thought you were talking about one of the Okay, I was thinking of not Tuvac. Who is the guy who is Spock's brother, Lawrence Luckinbill Lauren.

Big characters there, Cybock, Cybox, There you go, Spock. What's going on there on Vulcans?

So, yeah, So he's playing Robert Johnson performing Crossroads at the very beginning of the picture.

Now we never get to see Robert Johnson interact with the devil. It's just hinted at. And they're going to keep playing at that through a lot of the movie. This Every time we get to one of these flashbacks, it's it's cpa tone haziness, like he's trying to recreate nineteen thirty eight Mississippi in the best way possible. I'm surprised he didn't resort to skipping film and stepping on it and adding scratches to it. I guess he just didn't want to go that far. But I have a

I'm so glad you're bringing this up, because I was prepared to if you didn't go for it.

So there is a popular theory that during the recording of Robert Johnson's songs. The machine itself was sped up or sped or under cranked by something like twenty percent. So if you take his songs and speed them up, you get a jauntier version. And the only thing that gives it credence is it sounds good. Either way. It's a little the guitar playing is a little worse in the sped up version. It sounds like he's making mistakes, but it does sound credible. So I to get your

Sure from believe I actually I believe that they were recorded slowly. The commonly held theory, one of the commonly held theories is they did that so that they could fit more music on a record, on a seventy eight rpm record, right, So they had the music when recorded sped up so he could fit more. By all accounts, Robert Johnson had a low resonant voice, and anyone who listens to a song like the original Crossroads, it's not. It's almost like a high keening. It's like an upper register.

Okay, so you're saying that his songs were recorded and then in a kind of post production situation, they were shortened or slowed down or sped up.

No, I think when they were being recorded, they were recorded at a slightly slower speed, so when you play them back, they play back naturally faster.

Okay, so they would have to fiddle with the machine itself.

Yeah, either deliberately. But it's also probably just as likely that these machines aren't precision calibrated machines. They were being recorded essentially in like a hotel, like in a room. It wasn't like they were in a recording studio per se.

That machine had been carted there and probably rolled across things and carried upstairs and dropped and who knows.

So it's also possible that this whole theory that they were trying to fit more music on a record is bullshit. It could just be that the equipment wasn't properly calibrated, or it just recorded slower so when he played it back, they didn't know that. It's not like they're sitting there with a tuning fork saying, oh, this is at four forty hertz. This is perfect because I also have heard that some songs are more likely to be sped up than others, Like it's not a universe versal across this

Now. I've heard that the entire catalog of songs was recorded on two machines. The theory is, or at least the counter theory is that it could not have been the machine's fall. It couldn't have been a mistake because the mistake wouldn't have crossed over from machine to machine. It couldn't have glitched twice to twenty percent. However, if they were doing it there on the day to each machine and actually fiddling and making it slower than that theory is plausible.

Could be I just know for me, actually, after watching Crossroads, I went out and got the same Robert Johnson cassette that Eugene plays in the picture with it's like this sort of cartoonish image of Robert Johnson's back as he's playing. But partly because I don't I just don't think I was. My mind wasn't calibrated to really understand this music. I didn't like it because it just, I don't know, it was a little frantic. It wasn't quite as. It wasn't

John Lee Hooker's Burning Hell is the greatest blues album of all time. Ripley agrees with me. She just barked.

Really, I would agree with you there too. The man is a giant. He lived it.

I don't know where I fall. I like the idea because it sounds so natural when you listen to the sped up Robert Johnson vocals, and now obviously you're going to listen to them here, folks, here's the original.

Don Blues.

And A Day Keep doing on Me, the hell alm trees kill are.

Killed, Okay, And now here's the sped up version.

Mm hmm falling down a boo falling down kill.

And a day Keep on on Me the hell hag almores kill.

Kill.

Both are pretty credible, right, But I think the slower one, I think just sounds more natural to me.

I know, but I'm just so used to the other one that it just sounds like somebody covering crossroads and they just have a they tap their toe a little bit faster.

If only Bill and Ted went back in time to the Mississippi Delta and they brought Robert Johnson back instead of Beethoven, maybe we'd have an answer to this question.

Father. That's true. If somebody could check with Ulysses McGill from Oh Brother were Artho. They basically meet Robert Johnson at the end of that movie too out on the Crossroad. He might have the answers there. He didn't sound sped up there, No.

But I that's I can point to Crossroads as being the thing that kind of I was inspired to seek out Robert Johnson. It just didn't stick because I just couldn't get into the music. I don't know what it was, but the man is I can say just he was an amazing guitar player. I wish I could play slide guitar like he did amazing.

Do you play slide guitar?

No, I could never. It's the tricky part about slide guitar, father, alone, is that normally, when you're playing, when you're fretting the notes, you're putting your finger between two frets, whereas with a slide you're only you're resting the slide itself on the upper part of the fret itself, on the piece of fret wire, so not in between the threts, on the thread itself, over the thread itself. I also believe that you have to tune your guitar in what's called open tuning.

So what's your trouble.

I just it's hard for me to recalibrate my fingers. I haven't tried it in many years, to be fair, but I just I had trouble recalibrating my brain to play it as opposed to just fretting the notes normally. I don't know. It's just and to be honest, I didn't spend a great of time trying to learn. But it's cool someone who does it well, like ry Cooter. It's an amazing sound.

By the end of this podcast, you're going to have to play some slide guitar for I.

Think a lot of people were inspired by this movie to delve into the Blues, and that's probably one of the very good things about this movie, if nothing else.

I agree any of these nineteen eighties movies that were urging anyone toward any sort of artistic area that they might not have been exposed to. It's it. Look, I'm going to sound real old here, but there was a pre internet time and exposure to any other culture was welcome, even if it was even if it was freighted with a with the white savior like Lawrence of Arabia is just a bunch of white people out there in the

Well, the whole legend of Robert Johnson going down to the crossroads and making a deal with the devil. To me, as a thirteen year old kid and probably a lot of people, that's a very for lack of a better word, that's a very alluring tale. That's you, you know, you're drawn to that. That just I remember I heard the same thing about Jimmy Page and led Zeppelin, like they made a deal and you could back they had back

It's a legend just tailor made for cinematic adaptation. Here's this great music, here's this great legend. All of that happened, by the way, and now you can do whatever we want with it. Also, it wasn't that long ago, so one of our leads can be the contemporary of Robert Johnson. It's crazy to think about this, Like when this movie takes place, it was fifty years prior.

You think about fifty years ago that was.

It was seventy five. Man, Yeah, it was like SNL was on the air. It's inane.

It is when you're a kid, especially, fifty years might as well be one hundred and fifty. But as you and I age, that's we realize that's an eyeblink. That's not long ago at all.

This would be like breaking dan Ackroyd out of the SNL nursing home to get him to down South where he can be a blues brother. Again, Like it's that's apt. It's crazy, just as far as like how long ago it was, Like you know, there are people seeing this movie who could potentially knew Robert Johnson.

Yeah it was. It really wasn't that long ago. The movie makes it feel like it's ages and ages ago because he always goes to that CPA, Like you said, that CPA tone look in the tac piano playing blues chords in the background. But I but by the way, I really like those little interstecial or not interstitials, but I like those little interludes in the movie where you see Willie Brown dealing with the Devil's assistant.

And it's why are those scenes so good? HB Why are they so?

I just think they're so they're cinematic. I don't know it just it they feel heightened in a way, and I like that about this. It creates this witchiness, for lack of a better word term, about this whole because mostly this movie takes place in very mundane places, like a flophouse here, or you know, an old barn here. But that's there's the way it's shot too. It's very compelling. The crossroads with the one sort of dead looking tree off to the side and somebody just standing there waiting

I have two words why those sequences are so good. Joe Morton ah As.

He doesn't really have a name, does he.

He's just the devil Scratches assistant, That's what I mean.

He doesn't He's not Legba or scratch. He's just Scratch his assistant.

It should just be the devil. It just should be Joe Martin should just be the devil. I'm not saying that I'm disappointed when the devil shows up, because I'm not when Scratch Legma the devil. When he shows up, he's fucking awesome.

He's great.

It's a little disconcern that we deal specifically with Joe Morton for the entirety of the thing, and then in the end we get this one guy who we're gonna deal with the battle for and we've only just met him. So even as great as he is, it's yeah, but you're not the guy.

Joe Morton may as well be the devil, because, like you said, he's the one that really interacts with all these characters. But yeah, it's he's so derisive and dismissive to everyone that he deals with. You would think he would if the Devil's gonna come and try to make a deal for your soul, he's gonna come with honeyed words and all this kind of stuff. But not Scratch his assistant. He basically he calls him like like four.

Eyes and hey, blam ball, come over here.

What's your name?

Boy?

My name Willy Brown. So what you're doing all.

These gross goods alone? Willy Brown?

Robert Johnson told me, I can make a deal here, a deal with Like. There's nothing cheery or nic or welcoming about Scratch's assistant. About Joe Morton, he's like a not a nice guy. But what I always thought was really cool is so he goes to Willie Brown goes to the Crossroads as a young man. It's one of those CPS shots, and Joe Morton's character drives up in an old nineteen twenties car or something, and he makes

And props has blacked out the transam logo from the front of the car.

I noticed, Oh did they do that? It was unmistakable for me, just because I've seen a ton of those and growing up, But no, it's great. I love those sequences at the crossroads. Particularly.

Here's the thing that I noticed this time watching up the second time in the transam. He has a consort, a petty little she bitch with him. She should have been with him the whole time. She should have shown up with him in the thirties and with pin curls. She should have always been It would have been great.

I wondered about that too, because she's so prominent during the head cutting scene.

And that's why I said it, because she's out on the floor. She's basically performing the anti Willie Brown's number on stage.

Yeah, she should have been there too, in the era appropriate fashion in the nineteen she should.

Be Scratch's assistant. He should be Scratch because the thing I liked about Scratch when he finally does show up is he is the honeyed word guy. He gets hard when he has to, but really he's sweet and welcoming.

He is.

But there's one moment that I never really thought about until I was rewatching. I probably watched it three times over the weekend, father alone, and he's talking with Willy, and Willy he basically tries to make a double or nothing bet because will he wants his soul back. He wants him to tear up the contract.

Unless you might want to say it in for don't do it.

So he's my friend.

I don't believe in any of this shit anyways.

I say it, don't do it, light Ning, you win, I tear it Willis contract. But what happens if my man Jack Bloway, you kid me already got you.

I swear to you, Father Milive. There's something primal in his eyes, like it's almost like with all of the honeyed words and the smiles and everything, his eyes in that moment aren't smiling because he knows he's I already got you, Willie, like you give me something more because he wants the kid. He wants Eugene's soul also. But that's the only moment really where you'd see that mask of civility fall a little bit from scratch and you see this guy for who he is. It's I don't frankly,

The moment you're describing occurs again in the same scene, and that's when Willie Brown begs off that he was not given what he was promised. You can tear that up and give me some peace.

Why on earth would I want to do that?

Are you slept up on your end of things? I didn't end up where I wanted.

I didn't end up with nothing, didn't get nothing. You got but you were supposed to get.

Blues Man ain't nothing ever as good as we wanted to be, but that he'd no reason to break a deal.

I love this guy. I love that actor, So I'm happy with him being leg But maybe he should have been in the car and Joe Morton should have been his sidekick, and Joe Morton could have been cruel and mean while the devil's being nice.

It's, if nothing else, it's an embarrassment of riches, this sort of devil in his consorts. It's great leading up. I mean that.

The fact is I like their characters so much, because truly, in rewatching this movie, when I was able to identify why I what I not liked about the movie finally coalesced s HP, and that is our three leads are a bunch of pricks. All three leads are insufferable in their own ways.

Now, when you say three leads, you're talking about Eugene, you're talking about Willie. Are you talking about Francis also?

Well, of course I'm talking about missus Jamie Gertz.

Yeah, they.

I can excuse Willie Brown. I think it's great that they made him a prick, because it would be so easy to make him this saintly old man who just needs another chance. The fact that he is, I mean, he lies to Eugene to break him out of this prison essentially, and he's not so nice to Francis when he meets, although they do make up at the end. But him, I can excuse it. I think it's appropriate for him to.

Be a dick.

But and I guess, for instance, like she's a runaway, why wouldn't she be even bittered?

And all her character does is get them in trouble because she's an amoral nightmare.

Pretty much pretty much.

I don't why do you think is an insufferable prick? His motivation here is to get famous and then only to compaut. He has his one night up on the stage, which, by the way, is only that situation is manufactured by Willie Brown to get you Gene out of trouble. Yeah, because he blows the moment of triumph there just playing guitar passively, and then he turns into a megalmoniacal nightmare.

I don't disagree with you there after he performs at the juke joint, and then he's so wired on the adrenaline of performing and doing well. He in that moment he is a prick. I agree with you there And.

The rest of the time he's just complaining about your lie to me. Willy, you know where you This is all bullshit, Willy, What the fuck? Willy? Where's my fucking song? Willie? It's just like he's a nice he says, just a jerk.

But Willy did lie to him, though, Willy said Willy says to him at the beginning, because he says, well, how the hell are we gonna get down to Mississippi? And Willi says, I got this bank roll right here, I've had it forever, and he pulls out a wat of bills. Yeah, they make it so Eugene has enough money to get them to Memphis. It's still a long ways to Mississippi. So he says, all right, give you the money, will because Willy says, you get us to Memphis, I'll give you the money to get us the rest

What are you gonna do?

Of course he be pissed.

I'm gonna take four dollars, I'm gonna rent a car, and I'm gonna go back to New York. If his reaction is anything but rent a car and go back to New York, get on a train, go back to New York, take a bus back to New York. If his reaction is anything but, then shut the fuck up for the rest of the trip. Young Eugene he has he look, he does have a valid reason to be mad when he finds out there is no song.

But that's the carrot that will he keeps dangling, like it would be easy for him to say, let's.

Here's the thing. He's leading Eugene along with his own greed because Eugene just wants that song so he can become famous. It's not like I just need to hear this one song. Like if that were the case, then he should be devastated when there's no song, and.

I can't argue with that. His motives, Eugene's motives are are not so pure. Clearly he wants I think he even says this is his shot at entering like the Blue breaking into the Blues is this song.

I will say this though, as much as I love Joe Martin in the scenes that we get him in, I do think the dream sequence that Willie Brown has where Scratch's assistant is tiny when he opens the door and then he grows bigger. No, it's a great effect. It's fantastic. It's a fantastic sequence. Might be my favorite sequence in the movie. It should be Scratch, it should not be the assistant appearing to him on the crossroads as the devil's proxy is one thing, appearing in his

But I know they're just saving the reveal of the devil for the end of the movie, So I get why they did it.

And I understand that too. But here's the other thing I noticed. As much as I love Walter Hill as a filmmaker, as an action filmmaker and dramatically, he's not a horror filmmaker. This would be borne out in his work for Talales from the Crypt, none of which are scary. But he has several moments in this movie that should

Yeah, I agree with you that the nightmare sequence in particular should have been more surreal, more nightmarish, because what's

No, And that's the thing. Like his character as a prick, we appreciate and understand, but they could have they could have done a little bit more to show, yeah, how desperate his situation is. This is really a movie about him trying to get back to the crossroads to get his soul back, as much as everything else we're talking about. And in fact, it's odd to me that he didn't he wasn't more upfront earlier in the movie, like Eugene, it's all real, I sold my soul and I need to get down there.

He does tell him that they're on the bus and early on in their journey, they're on the bus, and he does say because because Eugene is relating all these blues of these books on blues folklore that he's read, and but will he says, it's real. I went to the Crossroads. Robert Johnson went to the Crossroads. And this is the thing. He doesn't convey the gravity of it.

But it is fun, which is wrong, by the way he should at that point, if that character doesn't believe that he's engaging in a competition where his soul is at stake, then there are no stakes.

It eventually becomes real for him once he It's unclear. I think they're meant to think that he gets teleported directly from the Crossroads to this juke joint where the devil is having this headcutting duel, because at that point, when Eugene and Willie walk into this club, you can see that Eugene is maybe rethinking his cavalier attitude.

That's my point. It should have been what about you, lightning boy? You want to be part of the competition. I don't believe in any of this shit. And then suddenly they're in the juke joint place and you go, how about now, what do you think you still want to compete with me? Then it would be like, oh shit. Then he's making a real decision, that's all. There's no agency for the character in that way. It's just another thing he's doing because he doesn't believe that crap any sure, but.

At least the character of Eugene is continually trying to prove his blues prowess and prove that he is the lightning Boy. So even just on that basis, I think he's going to give his all during this performance, even if Willie doesn't impress upon him the importance.

And really it's no.

Different than the scene in Karate Kid two where he's about to fight Chosen and mister Miagi has to tell him this isn't for points, this is for real Daniel. So it's like, I know John Fuscot that he says there was no direct influence on his screenplay of the Karate Kid and in fact, Ralf Machio like there were

But my point is, you know, I don't know, man, I don't know.

Do you think Sean Penn would have been a good Eugene?

Yeah? Who else would have been a good Eugene?

I think Tom Cruise would have been good at that age.

I think he would have been Timothy Hunting. He's too white, That's exactly, He's too white. It definitely would have been white savior with him.

Who else would have been somebody about super popular?

How about Matthew Modine He could have.

Because he could have been scholarly. I think he would have played that up.

He could have been. I know, I'm just a fucking white kid from the suburbs. Man, but this music is important. You would believe him, you.

Would because it would have felt like he put in the work to learn all of this folklore. But like as I don't have a problem with Ralph Macchio. I think he's fine.

He is no and I'm not complaining about him necessarily, and he probably got the movie made.

Let me ask you another question, father Milone. We briefly touched on the character of Francis only if only to say that she's an asshole. But what's your impression of Jamie Gertz. I know the character isn't that you're rich of a character, but what did you think.

I think they were right to cast her if she walked into any casting agency, or rather any audition in nineteen eighty five nineteen eighty six. She's so fresh on the scene, and she's so fucking capable in every role she's in. She can adapt really quickly to whatever genre. So I don't blame them for casting her, and I think she does a good job. But it's a fucking, absolutely superfluous character.

That's another problem that I have with this. And some of this ties in with Eugene, so really the only purpose that she serves in this picture is she has a alliance with Eugene. They have sex in this hayloft before getting shaken down. I want to talk about the

It doesn't do Jamie Gertz a disservice. The character does Jamie Gertz a disservice, because that is the character's only function in this screenplay. It's to get Eugene to over the hill finally, to get him to feel the blues

No, they had sex before he performed.

That's true. That's true. They had it in the barn.

Yeah, and then so there's that barn scene and.

Then okay, after he's all right, so you know what Okay, they did have a legitimate fling, but they didn't seem to really like each other. And she's horrible and he's horrible, and fuck them both.

But I did that scene, by the way. I know, you want to move on to something, but you're not a scene where she leaves him and he comes back and they're staying in some flophouse somewhere, and he comes back in and Willie sits them down at this table in this crappy hotel room and pours them both whiskey and basically has a sit down. And that's when he tells, essentially tells Eugene there's no thirtieth song. I lied, there's

I agree with you across the board. It's a great scene for those two characters, and it is a pivotal scene. It is the moment where Eugene finally figures out how to play this music emotionally right. But the Francis character has been nothing but a drain as far as time spent between these two characters, because that's what this movie is about. This is a father and son journey, or a brother or a mentor and mentee story. Anything else

We are trapped.

That's when he starts playing the blues, not because the girl he fucked in a barn took off.

This is the blues, Eugene you wanted because at the beginning, Eugene has taken a job as a maintenance worker at this nursing home slash prison just to get into to see Willie and he keeps pumping Willy for information, trying to understand is this the real Willy Brown? And at one point Willy says, why he's so interested in the blues anyway?

Kid?

And he's in his coveralls, he's mopping up or whatever, and he says, because I'm a blues man. And that could not have been funnier for Willy to hear. He laughs so much the nurse comes in to take him to his medical appointment, He's laughing all the way down. For Willie to finally accept Eugene as a quote unquote blues man, like you said, it's a pivotal moment because this whole time he's just cutting down Eugene. For they have this great night at the juke joint where he

Once again, I agree with you, and I'm going to reiterate I needn't have Jamie Gartz in any capacity to make any of those scenes work.

Yeah, I agree, because all to your point earlier, all she does is get them in trouble. She's going to hook up with some bar owner.

And she's a piece of shit bar owner.

Yeah, and and but Eugene wants to white knight and save her from doing something show regret, so he comes in and try to get her out of there. She tells him wait behind the door for this guy to come out of the bathroom and hit him over the head and we'll steal his money. That goes awry. They steal the guy's car, they have to later get rid

And because it's her making all the fucking mistakes. It's not like Eugene is learning anything throughout the movie, right, It's just that he's dealing with the situations that keep arising. He should be failing in there. I not only didn't make us any money, but they fucking took my gun.

He's reacting. That's all that Eugene really does for most of the trip is he's reacting to what's happening around them.

And playing the blues slowly. That's what Eugene's purpose is for most of the movie.

Yeah, I agree. By the way, one of the things that drove me nuts about him is so at the beginning of the movie he is playing acoustic blues. He has his beat up all acoustic guitar, and even Willie I think it's great. He says, like, you probably bought this because it looked beat up. You don't know. So he takes him to a pawn shop, right, and they pick they's It is a great scene. They pick up an old fender. It's a seventies telecaster with the block lettering,

No, that's I love hearing that that. I wouldn't have thought of that. I would be thinking like the filmmakers were thinking, put the stunt guitar on his back. Who cares? Just get through the shot?

Just killed me to see that. Now, when I was a kid, I didn't care. But now seeing that's a beautiful guitar and that amp is like that that amp seems like a goofy thing in the movie, but that actually is a real piece of like the Rolling Stones use that a lot of different bands. That was like considered a cool piece of vintage gear. The other thing that kind of bugged me is that the scene where he's finally learned the depth of the blues and he sits down to do slide guitar. This is so geeky.

Damn it.

That took me out of it a little bit, but because the playing is beautiful, but I know for a fact he's not playing through that goddamn amp.

Anyway, Hey, man, if you know something is wrong and you're watching a movie, it's gonna take you out of it.

It's killing me. When are we going to talk about Steve V? By the way, So.

Okay, wait, what do we need to talk about before we get Steve Vis?

That's what? Okay, Let's get back to that scene where Yeah, that's another scene I really liked, and I think it's very It's one of the more perceptive scenes in the movie where so they've taken shelter in this barn, but it's not an abandoned bar, and people live someone's barn in the county. This is the scene where Eugene has had sex with Francis and the hayloft. Eventually the cops come and they're searching the place, and it has to be said, it's a whole bunch. They're African American cops.

Oh come on now, don't do that to me. You know who I'm talking about, right, I know exactly what you're talking about. The sheriff in the scene, he's fucking fantastic, he's great.

So he's another African American gentleman. He comes out and basically says to them, you know what, I don't like vagrants in my county. You guys walk across that bridge, then you're a sheriff. Tillman's problem not mine or whatever. And Francis says, well, what about our money? She says, what are you talking about? He says our money. That guy took our money. And the sheriff makes a threat to her and basically says, you know what, I think, I'm gonna take you to the women's farm, the prison.

Police are corrupt, no matter what race they are. That's

I didn't think of it in those terms, but yeah, you're right.

Yeah, there's a bunch of Walter Hill trops on display here, including my favorite, which is also race related, which is because you can consider Eugene black here because he's playing the blues with his pig nosamp when he goes into that red neck bar, but the African American in the red neck bar causing havoc because we see that in forty eight Hours, we see that here, we see that in one other Walter Hill film. What's the other sort

Yeah. No, that's true. And it is funny because that scene in the white sort of bar across the street from the black juke joint. Does it plays a little bit like the scene in forty eight Hours when Reggie goes into the bar pretending to be a cop and kind of shakes the place down. I mean it, the scene has a different arc, but it's the same. Yeah, it feels the same to me.

I'm surprised the bar wasn't named Torchies, because that's every bar in Walter Hill movies is named Torchies.

Is that right?

Oh yeah, in Streets. I didn't know that in Streets to fire at the bar that Willem Dafoe that they have to infiltrate what Willem Dafoe is hold up and that's Torchies. The in forty eight Hours, that's Torchies.

So that's his See you next Wednesday.

Yeah, basically. And I think there was a bar in downtown Los Angeles called Torches, like in the sixties and seventies that he used to go to and then was eventually went defunct. But he's keeping the he's keeping the torch alive. Oh, it's in Brewsters Millions as well. Torchies.

Oh that's a Walter Hill movie.

Huh huh. And the other thing that why it's so good as a scene is there's no refuge for them. This is the idea of the blue Usman. There are there is no refuge, just the music. It is hammering home slowly here, thus reaffirming that we don't need Jamie Gertz here, because if she's that fucking street wise, why is she yelling at a cop give me back my money? Did she think that was ever going to happen? Also? Why are they seventeen? Let's talk about that. These are

It didn't Yeah, I can see. I guess Eugene could have been older and still have been as naive as he was at seventeen or whatever. You're right about Francis though, although the only reason you need her to be younger is when that the racist bar owner, when they finally get to drop on him, she lays a threat that she's fifteen. It would not have been believable if she was in her twenties. It would be hard to sell that. That's the threat is she will tell on him for a dalliance with a minor basic.

Yeah, and it's just I don't know, it's it's all just off putting. She's, oh, you could have as a character.

She is, and you could have even if it was just Eugene and Willie. There's any number of things they could have gotten into that didn't involve some creepy lecherer's guy who's trying to get it on with someone. They could have run a foul of any number of racist people on their on their journey, or people who just didn't want to deal with vagrants. I don't know. You have to ask uh A Fusco. See what he says.

We're asking Fusca, what's going on? Why did you have this character? Did they make you make her? Did they make you add her? We're wondering, possibly an early draft. I'd love to have read an early draft.

Did you think she was tough enough bottom alone as the actress, not the character?

No, I don't, because it's Jamie Gertz from Square Pegs. Listen. She has that Anne Hathaway quality of theater kid. But she has she doesn't have it as bad as it just reeks of it, you know, the sort of superior asshole theater kid quality.

I agree, and that was my impression. I was thinking, like, if they had someone like a young rene Zelwiger who had an edge to her, who could have played a Texan who she just feels like she she could have played tough when you see her in I'm trying to think of what.

I don't know.

She just feels like she could have been more authentically tough then Jamie Gertz. It's like having Sarah Jessica Parker play Francis.

Right, It's right, she's got the chops to play the character. But do you believe her?

And I didn't believe her. Not that it matters, because we both agree that she was rather superfluous. But at the end of the day, like who would you have had? Who would you have preferred? Who do you think would have been a better Francis.

See, I'm trying to run down a list of people who were popular and or just working at the time, and I'm just blanking on actors in their twenties at this period.

It's not like renees Eliger was. But I'm just playing fantasy here.

Who would I have played that part? Nobody? I would cut this character out of the fucking movie. If we're playing fantasy.

But say, say the producer said you got to have a girl in this role. I don't care what you think about the story. Let's just do this. Who would you if you had to pick somebody I want Dase Eliger.

I wouldn't put Renes Eliger, and I would cast specific to eighty five. You know what, I put young Melanie Griffith in that role. And I'll tell you why. Because Melie Griffith comes off like a fucking badass, you know what you can around the same time she's in body double and her speech about what she will and won't do as a porn actress. I believed every fucking word

What about someone like Lori Petty.

No, I would believe that it looks she's spunky enough to have been the character.

Yes, okay, I just you know, we don't have to go that much further with this. I just as a thought experiment. I thought it was interesting to see because I didn't. I agree. I didn't buy her as she wasn't tough enough. I don't no knock on her abilities as an actor. I just thought someone else might have done a better had a better edge to them.

Good performance, bad character, and unbelievable actor in a role. I just don't believe them.

Sorry, yeah, agreed.

Where do we go from here? Which is the way that's clear?

I tell you what we have to get to. We get to get to the climax of the story where you know, now we So they've gone down to the crossroads. Eugene, they made it. Eugene and Willie. They they set up this double or nothing bet with the Devil that if if Eugene can cut heads with Legba's proxy, this guy named Jack Butler, then he will rip up Willy's contract. But if he doesn't, if he loses to Jack Butler, the Devil gets Eugene and or he gets Willy and Eugene.

You lose, the devil gets your soul.

That was yet that's you know, that's probably something that maybe helped prime me for liking this movie, because I always loved that song The Devil Went Down to Georgia, the appeal of the legend of the guy playing the devil for the Golden Violin. I just I don't know. I always love that song. I don't love Charlie Daniels, but I love that song.

It's a great song. Man, if it comes on the fucking radio, it's getting turned up to full volume in my.

Car without a doubt. So we end up in this club and we get our first look at Jack Butler, played by none other than Steve I. Now Steve I.

See Steve's getting Do you think he's a fucking terrible actor? I don't. I think this is his I'm saying, from the producer's director's perspective, would it not benefit them to cast Steve VII as Eugene?

Oh, you're talking about having him play Eugene. I don't see that at all, because I don't think he could have pulled that off. He's too old looking. He couldn't have pulled off someone that young.

See, I'm just wondering if he can act at all.

I don't think he.

I think this is what he was in this movie is not acting. It's just him being Steve VII.

But but I think you're under selling it. I think there is a little bit of acting.

Yeah, when he when he starts to get flustered, Yes, definitely, But it's not like we're seeing him realize the meaning of the Blues.

No, I think he I think if you talked to Steve VI, I think he would agree with you that he is or I think he would be the first to admit that he's no actor.

Okay, No, and I'm look, I'm not bagging on his I'm wondering if he could have acted, do you think they would have cast him? Do you think they tested him?

No?

Percent, I don't know. Here's the whole story behind his involvement. Originally, father alone, it wasn't He wasn't even the one who was going to be Jack Butler. Originally it was supposed to be ry Cooter was gonna be the devil's proxy. It was gonna be him, and it was supposed to be a slide guitar duel. Oh my god, no, but

All, and in fact, the music was too similar.

Yes, because it because Arlen Roth, who I talked about at the top of this episode. He on his SoundCloud page you can go, he posted the original headcutting duel between ry Cooter and him right because it was him doing the slide guitar for Eugene, I believe, and it is so samy it's hard to tell who's playing what. I think it was the right call to bring someone

So Paganini had the original guitar face.

Pretty much.

He is worshiping at the altar of Paganini when we saw him on SNL all those times.

I guess you could look at it that way, but but you need to have that that friction between the classic blues slide guitar style that Eugene brings up, the quote unquote authentic blues and this guy who's playing this metalized eighties version of blues. So you have to have that. This is a this is essentially a boxing match between the two of them. I will stump for Steve I

You know. It's funny as a kid watching this movie over and over again. I understand the importance of the scene, and I like the scene, but it didn't register with me what was going on between these two. It was I was watching them play until one couldn't do what the other did, and then he won. That was what it was. To me on the rewatch now it was what you're saying, and I do agree with you now.

Yeah, And don't forget that when I just I love the arc of the whole guitar battle because it starts off they feel each other out, and then there's a moment where because Jack Butler's just throwing riffs basically at Eugene to see if he can keep up or if he's worthy of engaging in this duel, and Eugene gives as good as he gets, and at that point, Jack Butler takes off his guitar, takes off his jacket, and that's when you know, as a viewer, all right, this

Excellent, all the props in the world. Is Steve Vie man of everyone from the nineteen eighties. He always seemed like the solid performer. He seemed like the guy who actually knew what he was doing and was doing it in an interesting way.

He's a very I've since looked up a lot of his videos. He's a very humble guy for somebody who can basically play his ass off at whatever he is. I think he's like in his late sixties now, he's pretty old. But what I was leading up to was, so he does this little piece and he's basically trying to close the case on Eugene, and that's it. And then Eugene launches into what's known as Eugene's trick bag, which is that caprice number five by Paganini. That's Steve

I'm the only person who can defeat Steve is.

Steve VII and as a kid, I used to eat up these guitar magazines. I was just learning how to play guitar, so I'd buy guitar player, guitar for the practicing musician guitar world. And I guarantee you at least once a year after that movie came out, somebody would do a transcription of some piece from Crossroads. It could be the trick Bag, it could be the head cut and duel. You would see this laid out in tabulatair. Because and even now you go to and there's still

He definitely should. Why wouldn't he, My God, he is Jack Butler, He's the Devil's He's the Devil's guy.

It's great. The guitar, by the way, is in the hard Rock Cafe Biloxi, Mississippi.

Can I just say that Legba and the Devil are not analogs?

Well, Legba is like some sort of demon, it's not actually the Devil. So I guess we're playing fast and loose with the language by calling but he's essentially the Devil, right, I know.

I'm just you know what you're telling me. The fucking telecaster costs seven thousand dollars. I'm telling you that leg and the Devil aren't the same thing.

This is the ven diagram of our actionship.

That's right.

It's an intersecting here with telecasters and demonology. That's perfect.

It actually sums this up, doesn't it.

It is. It's amazing we've done it, Father Blone. This is like the what is that that the resetta stone of our friendship is right here at Crossroads?

Just nearly forty years to figure it out, but thank God for that come along, Thank you John Fusco for bringing us together and sorting out our relationship.

Really, and can I say how pissed I am that Britney Spears movie existsank you?

Because every time I mention I'm gonna be watching Crossroads, we're gonna talk Crossroads, I get the really you're gonna talk about that, and I'm like, no, not the Britney Spears moving like, oh there's another one. Yeah, there's a fucking another one.

It's unfortunate.

Okay, Can we talk the cutting head scene from a different perspective. Now we can both agree it's a fucking

That I don't disagree. I will let me bring up another piece of this.

And here's the thing. And I would not say it if Eugene were black, because it would be like, oh, by the way, white person, here's your own music, and you can't play it as good as I can. Then it would have been something.

Well, what's interesting is that there's another piece to this that maybe will lend some credence to that. Originally, when Eugene and Willy arrived at this juke joint, they see Jack Butler cutting heads with another guy. So the guy before Eugene, right, this guitar player that was going to cut heads with Jack Butler at the beginning of the scene was a guy named shuggy Otis. Have you ever heard of shuggy Otis? Chuggy Otis is this unsung guitar

So that's alleviated. If you Gene is black. Look, here's the thing. Eugene should have been black. The movie works as it is. I'm not saying it doesn't. Eugene should have been black. The movie he's so much better if he was it will.

But here's one point I want to make on that.

And if Francis were also black, then that character would work a little bit more for me. But here's the podcast. Okay, I call for a remake of Crossroads. Maybe make my point here.

The issue there, Malone is if you have a Eugene be black, then it's not then him going on this journey with Willie, he's not going to learn anything because being black, he's going to already be pro all these things.

If Eugene is a black kid from urban New York who has had no experience with what caused that music in the first place, because he's never been treated that the way those guys were treated, then that the journey becomes even more valid because it's teaching him about his own cultural past that he has no connection to because he's been living in an urban environment.

But he would have been an African American kid in the middle of New York City. There's no I think there's very little chance that even if he had grown up sheltered him, going to Juilliard and being in that environment, he must have been privy to racism in some to some degree.

Yes, he would have been. He would have been privy to snide, sneering racism. He wouldn't have been privy to get on the ground. We're taking your money. You're lucky. We don't fucking kill you here or ship you off to the fucking state farm until we decide whether or not you're worth prosecuting consequences.

You're very you're very determined about my point.

Look, man, I really this movie and I just want it to be better, and it's so close to being perfect.

Then let me turn this around. Who could you have had play an act for kin? American Eugene Denzel Washington. We're talking nineteen eighty five, too old? No, okay, what's his name?

Fuck? Oh Sagarera, what's your name?

Oh?

Forrest Whittaker, Orest Whittaker, nineteen eighty five, long and thin sel Remember him in Color of Money, where he's playing a dummy just so he can hustle fucking Paul Newman, and then he takes all of Paul Newman's money.

Ah, that might have been interesting. I actually, I'm I'm beginning to see your point a little bit, Father Molonte. I still think it's hard.

Whittaker in Crossroads it would have been a whole other movie. It would have been this like dramatic, dynamic thing. As it is, it's just a fun adventure movie with Ralph Maaccia.

You might be onto something there because because it definitely becomes there's more of an edge when you have Forrest Whittaker, and he could play funny too, he could make he can play charming and man, that could have been really good. Actually, I'm seeing him there with Joe Seneca going through all these same adventures. I think it could be good.

Toe to toe with Joe Seneca, Joe Senica putting Forrest Whittaker in his place? Are you kidding? And then Forrest Whittaker walking into that room with Steve v and getting pummeled for a while and then going oh, yeah, you know what, let me play some classical Steve Vie. What do you think of that?

And when you know it's always weird about that scene File them alone. They win the head cutting duel and the Devil or leg Book aka Scratch, tears up the contract and they finished the blues song and then there's this weird fade out and it becomes Cpa toned on the Crossroads. Are we meant to believe that they've been just and Eugene has this confused look on his face. Are we meant to believe that they've just been transported instantaneously back to the crossroads?

They are, definitely, Yes, they're now back at the crossroads.

But so so Eugene's confusion is this temporal confusion where he's I've just been insta transported to this place again.

Yeah, because no matter what happens in Eugene's life, he don't believe in that shit.

But now he does.

No, he doesn't. He's now still confused. I don't know how that happened, but now we're here. Anyway, there's nothing, says catl. Let's go to Chicago.

Willy even says to him, get that dumb look off your face, because he's clearly looks like somebody who transports instantaneously somewhere, and they're like, how did I get here?

This is weird because halfway through the movie he should have it should have been proven to him that the supernatural exists.

Yeah, I agree with you, that him being on the crossroads and that should be like that shot, that's maybe my favorite shot of the movie, is this wide shot of the crossroads where he walks over next to the tree, Eugene and he starts playing slide get.

But even then he's come on, say that again, I stepped in your line.

So he's playing slide guitar out by this the gnarled tree, while Willy says, this is where it counts. We got to get them to come out here, and he even then he Eugene's saying, oh, come on, when are we gonna to Fulton's point, this is bullshit. He doesn't. He's still he's at the crossroads themselves, and he's heard all these stories from Willie, but yet he still doesn't believe that that is that doesn't bother them alone.

Scratch's assistant shows up in a magic car and he talks to Willie Brown in a familiar way, talking about like confirming everything that Willy Brown has been saying through the entire movie, and then drives away, and then the fucking devil shows up. He appears.

See this is what just appears.

This is what I'm saying, Like that scene, I don't know why Walter Hill didn't try to eat least go for some sort of shock, if not scare, But if the car had pulled away, and in the same shot there's the Devil. It would have been like ah, but as it is, it's like the car drives away, they watch it drive away, and then you hear a voice. You turn around and go, oh, here's this guy. They're trying to continue to play with this idea that this

It is per played. But it's just it's weird that Eugene never cops to the notion that this is true, for all evidence to the contrary. It's staring him right in the face. Willie has been hammering this home through this whole trip, like I need to get back to the crossroads. I need to get back there. Is he just we led to believe he's just humoring him so that they can learn the song, because at that point he knows the song is bullshit. So why are they

Remake Seriously, maybe it's time. Yeah, I don't know why this hasn't been remade. Honestly, not that I'm saying that, you know, I'm not saying it needs to be remade. Because that movie is bad. I'm just saying it could be a great movie.

I like you cha.

Which. Speaking of which, have you seen the trailer for Ryan Coogler's new film.

The One with the Twins or what's his name playing Twins? I? No, I have not seen the trailer, but I've been reading it, but it sounds like it's gonna be pretty good.

Is it possible Bootlegging in the South? Michael Michael B. Jordan as twin brothers, one of whom becomes possessed of the devil. It's gonna be the It's gonna be like Constantine in the in the twenties in the Deep South.

What was that movie that the guy who was playing Kang the conqueror Lovecraft County? Is it like a Lovecraft County type of thing, kind of like that, Yeah, where it's like it's the Deep South, but it's you know, it's the racism thing, but it's something more sinister behind all of that. Is that what they're going for?

I don't know that. I don't know how much the racism is playing into the plot of the story. I just know it's a story about the crime family in the Deep South, and then there there's some supernatural shenanigans, but they're not shying away from the supernatural.

I love Ryan Coogler to the guy can do no fucking wrong.

So let's talk about the end of Crossroads because it's so fucking abrupt and weird.

They get teleported back to the crossroad they're walking now. They decide they're going to go to Chicago and start to spread the gospel, right, and then with the stipulation that Willy's gonna leave, he's gonna leave Willy after Chicago and take the Blues in a new direction or whatever. Uh, they shake hands and then that's you're right. It is very abrupt. But how else would you want to just end it at the triumph at the juke joint.

I don't know. I don't know. I don't know what the satisfying ending would be.

By the way, there was another ending that was shot. There were two endings.

Maybe this is the thing I've been looking.

For so bear. So there were two endings. One was they had a happy ending, which is the one that we see, and the sad ending. The sad ending is they're on a greyhound bus going back to New York and Willie Brown dies on the Greyhound.

Awesome, that's the end. Apparently they were going to get the fucking Further Adventures of Willy and Lightning book.

The thing was, Walter Hill's father had recently passed away, so there was something intensely maybe a little too personal for him, so it sounds like he didn't have a real handle on that ending. But frankly, it was just a situation where they test audiences didn't respond well to the sad ending, so they went with a good ending end of story.

Pussye, how that's what I have to say to that shit man. That's the end. What's the point? He fucking gets his soul back and then he dies. It's perfect, and now Eugene has the fucking blues. That's the end of the movie.

It would have made more sense because these blues guys all live fast, die hard, basically a blues man. I could very easily see It's like Hank Williams right now that he was a bluesman, but he died in his car outside of what Memphis or something, so I could see that being the ignominious end of a blues man is just dying on the way from Memphis or Mississippi. To New York on a Greyhound. That's sad, but maybe ropriatomatically.

It's a little Midnight Cowboy. It's a little less than zero, but they can have him die in other ways.

Yeah. I didn't have a real problem with the.

Years of a combine and that's a way to go.

No, I didn't have a real problem with it. But I also didn't take it as them setting up the further adventures. I thought it was just like, all right, these guys all got what they wanted. Eugene maybe he did, can get the Lost Song, but his future is assured. That's enough.

I don't know. It just felt unsatisfying, not unsatisfying enough for me to not recommend this movie. I'm recommending the movie. HP. Are you recommending this movie?

Ah?

Hell yeah? Absolutely. The Danger of Fall the Malone is am I recommending it because it's a good movie or because I loved it when I was thirteen years old and I can't get away from that, and that's a little hard for me to I think objectively, it's a good movie, solid fun movie.

Yeah, not everything has to be the fucking best, and not everything is the fucking worst. This is a pretty just solid musical flick that has great fucking music in it and is a good story and delves into a bit of Americana that not a lot of people knew about at the time, maybe still didn't know about today, Robert Johnson and his deal with the Devil.

Yeah, White Savior or not. If this movie teaches somebody, anybody about the Blues who maybe didn't know about it, otherwise, I think that's a pretty pretty good thing. That's pretty cool.

This movie inspired you to play guitar. You went out and bought the cassette tape of Robert Johnson that Ralph Macho has in the movie, as did I. So yeah, of course, Like what could be bad about this movie? Nothing excepting except Francis is a terrible character and needed to have been there, and Eugene should have been black. Other than that, we're gonna we're gonna recommend this movie. HP, my man, let's finish up with with with a bit

Ooh, that's tough because Buckethead can use nunchucks while he's playing.

That's going to kind of make it playing better. Or is that just a gimmick.

Well, it's a gimmick obviously, But you know that's I here's the thing. I love Buckethead. Well, I don't know. I can't say that. You know, Buckethead is prolific, he's mysterious. That's a hard question. I don't know.

Man.

I want to say Jack Butler because he's imbued with the devil's mojo, But man, Buckethead is so mysterious, and he can play so fast, and he's got that huge less Paul with the kill switch button. I gotta cop out and say, maybe it's a draw. Maybe they just look at each other and say, fuck, you're good. Now you're good.

All right, Then I can't have a follow up. You got to pick one, you know what.

For the sake of that, I'm still gonna say Jack Butler, but Buckethead's not far behind.

Jack Butler versus Johnny Lang speaking of blues guitarists and white Jack Butler, no question, Jack Butler versus Ingvey Malmstein.

Jack Butler ing Yingvey is is technically good, but he got.

No soul Joe Satriani versus Jack Butler.

Considering Steve I took lessons from Joe Satrianni when he was young, the student. It's got to be Satch Satch baby.

Okay, So, now here's an idea for a movie Steve I as Eugene Joe Satriani as Jack Butler.

I could be Joe Satriani is so good. Oh man, I don't know. I'm not convinced of VI's acting ability, but I could see that.

Maybe another universe. There are multiverses out there. Maybe we can get an MCU version. Yeah, and then till then until we figure that all out. HP Oh no, wait, I'm going to keep interrupting myself. I'm gonna just before before I kick it over to you and tell people where to find you. I'm enjoying these musical collabs between Midnight Viewing and the Noise Junkies. There are certainly a whole lot of other musical films of this period to

Ooh, that's a good one. But I thought you I frankly, I thought you hated American Pop.

I don't hate it. I've come around. There are still major problems with it, but there are major problems with every one of the movies we're going to be discussing here. I think what's another big major musical one from Oh you know What's something like Shock Treatment I would like to talk about.

I think that's a good one too. If I hadn't already done a whole podcast upisode on The Idol Maker, I would have advocated for that because I'm desperate to evangelize that movie. I love it so much.

You know what, you know what I'll leave. That's that's an option. That's if people write in about they want to hear about the Idolmaker, will do the Automaker. So the choice of the Idol Maker little Shop of Horrors. That's the second one. Little Shop of Horrors is the second one, and the third one is American Pop.

I think all of those three movies are all solid choices. I wish I could think of more off the top of my head, but I'm blanking right now. Father Alone, but any of those would be awesome.

Leave it up to them, And until then, where can people find you if they're looking for you? Those same people? If you want to hear hps more of his stuff.

In addition to Noise Junkies music podcast, which this is a crossover technically, you can find me on the Night mister Walters, a taxi podcast with yourself Father Alone. We just kicked off season three, so excited to be back in the garage on that one. I'm also an occasional guest on the Culture Cast with Chris Dashu and I also have a band campsite hpmusicplace dot bandcamp dot com. You can come check out. Not a lot of blues

As for me, you're listening to the show, it's midnine viewing. But if you want to hear episodes early in commercial free and get access to shows that me and HP do, like Cable Box Theater, head over to patreon dot com slash Father Alone. You can subscribe there. That'd be cool. But if you don't have any money, I don't have any money. I don't blame if you don't have any Just if you could subscribe or like or share this show,

Shame on you, Willie Brown, traveling all the way back down home.

As if you had a chance, ain't.

Got no chance.

Blind doll your soul, your soul, you going down all the way down hellhounds on your trail, Boy, hellhounds on.

Your trails, sets stings, stasist